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Central Banks Can't Ignore the Cryptocurrency Boom (bloomberg.com)

The boom in cryptocurrencies and their underlying technology is becoming too big for central banks, long the guardian of official money, to ignore. From a report: Until recently, officials at major central banks were happy to watch as pioneers in the field progressed by trial and error, safe in the knowledge that it was dwarfed by roughly $5 trillion circulating daily in conventional currency markets. But now as officials turn an eye toward the increasingly pervasive technology, the risk is that they're reacting too late to both the pitfalls and the opportunities presented by digital coinage. "Central banks cannot afford to treat cyber currencies as toys to play with in a sand box," said Andrew Sheng, chief adviser to the China Banking Regulatory Commission and Distinguished Fellow of the Asia Global Institute, University of Hong Kong. "It is time to realize that they are the real barbarians at the gate." Bitcoin -- the largest and best-known digital currency -- and its peers pose a threat to the established money system by effectively circumventing it. Money as we know it depends on the authority of the state for credibility, with central banks typically managing its price and/or quantity. Cryptocurrencies skirt all that and instead rely on their supposedly unhackable technology to guarantee value.

165 comments

  1. This post Trumps all that follow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making Slashdot great again. Trump 2020

  2. Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Governments, on the other hand, are going to ruthlessly crack down on cryptocurrency. Smuggling is still smuggling.

    1. Re:Oh but they can, and will by GLMDesigns · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Forbes just published an article calling BTC the new gold standard.

      Bitcoin is the New Gold
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/p...

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    2. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forbes Sites have all the credibility and central oversight of Geocities.

    3. Re:Oh but they can, and will by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Informative

      It wasn't "Forbes" -> http://i.imgur.com/fVkJLcX.png

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    4. Re:Oh but they can, and will by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 1

      Can we just talk about what current BTC value is? A bubble about to burst?

    5. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      National governments seams not sustainable in the long run,
      and its easy to imagine that they could do this without any political backlash from the general population witch associate BTC with crime.
      [Testpost from webpositive browser on HaikuOS - firefox spellcheck not present ]

    6. Re:Oh but they can, and will by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      How long have you been saying that BTC value is a bubble?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHAHAHAAHAH

      hahahahaahahahah

      hahahahahhaah

      HAHAHAHAHAH

      Forbes is fucking stupid

    8. Re:Oh but they can, and will by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      The Forbes we grew up with, the business magazine, isn't what's being talked about here. Forbes.com the internet site is just a blogging platform like Wordpress.com. Moreover they are highly aggressive with their adblocker-blocker and thus most people don't read anything on their site. Just because something appears there, doesn't mean Forbes endorses it. You can see from the URL it's just some guy's blog.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Is it the malware host that the blue hipster fucktard who knows nothing about science used to link to, or am I confusing it with something else?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re:Oh but they can, and will by ShamblerBishop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyone who knows their economic history even a little bit - and who isn't just a rabid gold-bug - knows that the gold standard was a complete disaster, totally unsuited to national economies... When people proclaim that something is 'the new gold standard', as if what they are praising is something laudable, they are nearly always unaware of the irony of their statement - which is pretty fitting, as for a long time entire nations (most of the world, even...) were unaware of just how damaging their glorified 'standard' was. Praising something as a 'new gold standard' might have a dictionary meaning of something being of a high standard - but the meaning in terms of economic history, as something being disastrously misplaced as a high standard - is a far more fitting meaning for the term.

    11. Re:Oh but they can, and will by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      Forbes.com the internet site is just a blogging platform like Wordpress.com.

      Really? I'm surprised. I don't read it because of their aggressive popups that happen when you first go to the site so I would have never known. Funny how things change...

    12. Re:Oh but they can, and will by es330td · · Score: 0

      Why do you think the current value of BTC represents a bubble?

      We have been conditioned by central banks to accept decreasing purchasing power for our fiat currency, in no small part because debt confers value to the borrower through inflation. Inflation allows the government to claim the economy is growing, regardless of whether the actual purchasing power of dollars of GDP actually buys more stuff. In 1900, a pound of raw steak could be bought for $0.13. Now it will cost you $7 or more. That represent a 5,200% increase in cost.

      BTC is designed to be an inflation free currency. Because the Fed is still creating dollars by the trillion every year, that declining value of the dollar is going to be reflected in the rising dollar cost of BTC. I think that BTC rose quickly in value because initially people with money didn't accept it as real enough to risk loss should it prove to be fake. Now that it is more widely accepted (I believe a recent real estate transaction was closed using BTC) it is being more correctly valued in terms of the fiat currencies. The real event for which to watch is the day a government entity accepts BTC as payment. They will resist, because they cannot control it, but at some point somebody will say we'll accept value in whatever form is offered.

    13. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      It is the new gold in that people who have it is trying to hype it to get the value up. In fact it has always been like gold that way. Though it is slightly more useless than gold.

    14. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      National governments seams not sustainable in the long run

      That's easily fixed. https://hardware.slashdot.org/...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Carewolf · · Score: 0

      How long have you been saying that BTC value is a bubble?

      Since the first time it burst, and every time since.

      Bitcoins have no intrinsic value, it is not just overvalued, it is by design 100% overvalued. Much unlike real money that are based on debt.

    16. Re:Oh but they can, and will by mikael · · Score: 1

      Some people and businesses speculate on computer components like CPUs, memory chips and hard disk drives. There are those that buy up the latest releases and sell them on like ticket touts. Then there are those that buy up auctioned off surplus military inventory; circuit boards for missiles, control systems, rocket boosters and just about anything else that they have space for.

      As long as the governments can get their taxes at whatever end of the pipe the money comes from, they will be happy.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    17. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't post anything from Forbes here.

    18. Re:Oh but they can, and will by EllisDees · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nothing has intrinsic value. Things are only valuable because we decide they are.

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    19. Re: Oh but they can, and will by dougdonovan · · Score: 1

      the financial world needs to "listen" to their IT heads. but...that costs money.

    20. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moderate (~3%) inflation is good for a couple of reasons. The government is not the only borrower who benefits from inflation. So do all of the families who bought homes on mortgages. Inflation also discourages wealthy people from sitting on piles of cash—they need to invest in business ventures (job creation) in order to stave off losses to inflation. The absolute price of a pound of steak in 1900 is irrelevant. It is only useful to consider costs relative to income in the same time period.

    21. Re:Oh but they can, and will by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      It may burst - it certainly will go down in price - but so what? It has proved its worth.

      - It's unhackable / un-forgeable.
      - It is easily portable.
      - It is easily divisable.

      Therefore it has value as a means of exchange and a means of storing value.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    22. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some things are abstract constructs in their entirety, and you cannot eat, drink, or wear them, or use them to hunt with, or even turn them into a ring. Such things with a physical manifestation do not tend to lose half their value in terms of their utility between starting lunch and ending it, as happened in the Weimar Republic with cash.

    23. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Interfacer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      THIS^^^

      Inherently, there is no reason for bitcoin to be valuable. There is also no reason for gold certificates to be valuable. Bitcoin is valuable among other reasons because people literally use it as a gold standard to trade all other coins. Look at the bittrex exchange: every coin is traded against bitcoin (and ethereum). It is quite literally the digital gold backing all other coins.

      Crypto is very volatile, but as the total crypto market cap increases, so will the bitcoin price. And I predict that over the long term, bitcoin is going to go up as long as people keep buying other coin. At least, until and as long as bitcoin remains the gold standard. 2018 could very well have 5 digit bitcoin prices.

      The only reason that bitcoin crashed a couple years back is because Mt. Gox folded and many people lost all their coin and the trust in crypto.

    24. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

      Sure. Right. Things have been SOOOO much better since 1972! gold-backed dollars?? Bah! Unnecessary.

      We're obviously much better off with a dollar based on its ability to buy oil. What could possibly go wrong??

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    25. Re:Oh but they can, and will by istartedi · · Score: 2

      Wow, edging towards $5k. Congrats to speculators in this; but I prefer to follow the Buffet method of not investing in things I don't understand, use, or enjoy. If BTC is like the gold standard, it could go a lot higher. OTOH, the BTC *economy* could have a depression. During the Great Depression, managers stimulated the economy by abandoning the gold standard. BTC can't do that. It's locked in to deflationary currency. We could see a paradoxical situation where the BTC value is off the chart, while at the same time nobody wants to spend it and create a useful transaction system. As long as the price goes up, the incentive is to hoard... until the price doesn't go up. I don't know when that stops. That's why I just sit here on the sidelines. It doesn't bother me if it goes to $100k even. Picasso paintings are worth even more because of the limited supply, and it has the same effect on me. I don't need a Picasso, or a Bitcoin. The Central banks and/or governments aren't likely to require me to change my currency into BTC or Picassos any time soon, so I'm not worried.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    26. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 2

      In the case of real money, what makes it valuable (and this has been true since the dawn of civilization) is governments demand its payment in taxes and adjudicate debts only on state currency.

      Bitcoin is not money. It's more like baseball cards.

    27. Re:Oh but they can, and will by zieroh · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin is not money. It's more like baseball cards.

      There's money in baseball cards.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    28. Re:Oh but they can, and will by mikael · · Score: 1

      Or software licenses. You can go online, purchase a software license for a month or year, and all they send you is 25-digit license string. That could be worth anything from $1000 to $100,000 depending on whether it's a single seat license for a single system or a enterprise site license for hundreds of computers.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    29. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *nothing* has intrinsic value? That's a bold claim. I'd say that fresh water, food, clean air, clothing; all have intrinsic value. So does iron. Steel. Bullets. A blade. Fire. A gun. Anything that is useful has intrinsic value. Not everything has monetary value perhaps. But fresh water is $90 a case right now in Houston so sometimes things with intrinsic value also have monetary value.

    30. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think of it as the new gold standard. It's more like how buying artwork was/is seen as an investment IMO.

    31. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Traditional banking system is a bubble about to burst. Same with the stock market.

    32. Re:Oh but they can, and will by tommeke100 · · Score: 2

      It is 'a' standard. Because gold can't be mined at high rates, same with Bitcoins. The difference is that Bitcoin mining is algorithmically upper bounded and it's increasingly harder to mine new Bitcoins. We know mathematically that you can't just suddenly dilute the value by creating double amount of Bitcoins.
      Compare this for example with currency like the USD. During the 2008 crisis the US just printed 200 billion $ (backed up by air... well, or the good faith in the US economy).
      Art is also a very convenient way to launder money (but okay, so are Bitcoins ;-) ) through offshore companies.

    33. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being useful is actually a negative factor for a currency. There's a reason why commodity money is only found in prisons and other black markets.

    34. Re:Oh but they can, and will by Carewolf · · Score: 2

      Nothing has intrinsic value. Things are only valuable because we decide they are.

      Nope. That is just retarded in how stupid it is. Food has value because it can be eaten. Everything useful has value.

      Modern money has value because it based by debt on thing that have use to you. For instance an average person owes more money on their house than they have in their pockets or bank accounts. All that money they have available is backed by their debt, and is leveraged by the threat of taking away thing that has intrinsic value.

    35. Re: Oh but they can, and will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nicely argued, and pretty well sums up my thoughts on BTC as well. Someone else likened them to trading cards: Bitcoin has value to people who believe it does, nothing more. Maybe that audience will continue to grow, maybe it won't.

    36. Re:Oh but they can, and will by EllisDees · · Score: 1

      Food has value because it has utility for us. That isn't anything intrinsic to the food. Is gold valuable intrinsically? Nope. It's also only valuable if you have some use for it. Dollars, both physical and virtual, have close to zero utility in and of themselves, but we still think of them as valuable.

      It's all made up shit. The difference between bitcoin and dollars is only a difference of opinion.

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
  3. FDIC by gtall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least in the U.S., if you have less than the insurance limit (I think it is about $200K) and the bank loses it, then you can get reimbursed. If you have less than whatever in internet coins and they get lost, you get squat. That's going to be a big hurdle, who guarantees those transactions? All it would take is one major exploit on a crypto-currency to tank it.

    1. Re:FDIC by GLMDesigns · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the blockchain is "hacked" or there is a successful 51% Attack then yes BTC and other crypto are in big trouble.

      However the blockchain was not hacked at $1,000,000.00 dollars, and it wasn't hacked when it was 1000 times that amount (1 billion) and it's still not hacked now. So far so good.

      Re 51% attack - that's getting pretty close to impossible even for governments.

      Can government stop crypto? Of course. Make it illegal and shoot people who have (or are suspected to have BTC). That ought to work.

      You talk about one major exploit - true. But, of course, if people could counterfeit US dollars that would also tank the dollar. Right?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    2. Re:FDIC by djsmiley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You missed the fact that the brokers have been hacked, time and time again, but then again banks seem to like leaving our details out anyway, so they are hardly who I'd turn to for trust worthy storage either ;)

      --
      - http://www.milkme.co.uk
    3. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem with this is in the era of too big to fail banks, the premiums paid by banks and held in reserve by FDIC are not enough to cover the losses

    4. Re:FDIC by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      But presumably whoever successfully performs a 1% hack has moved beyond pure brute force and has a head start on making a 10% hack and the dominoes topple after that.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    5. Re:FDIC by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Turns out trusting people you don't know. Have never met and just have a website isn't a good idea.

      I don't hand out cash to random strangers on the street that tell me they'll hold it for me either.

    6. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, which is why so many people lost their savings in the 2008 crisis. Oh, wait

    7. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Can government stop crypto? Of course. Make it illegal and shoot people who have (or are suspected to have BTC). That ought to work. "

      Why so dramatic.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
      Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". The effect of the order, in conjunction with the statute under which it was issued, was to criminalize the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.

    8. Re: FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, you can buy your own insurance instead of expecting tax payers to pay to insure your wealth for you. There's no reason you couldn't insure your crypto wallet like you'd insure any other asset.

    9. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coinbase is FDIC insured.
      https://support.coinbase.com/c...

    10. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only for USD deposits though. Does not cover ETH/LTC/BTC fair value at time of loss.

    11. Re:FDIC by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      > Can government stop crypto? Of course. Make it illegal and ...

      1. Making numbers "illegal" is idiotic.

      2. Digital currency is property, not currency.

      3. EO6012 does NOT apply to digital currency.

    12. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Making plants "illegal" is idiotic.
      2. Plants are property...etc

      The wars on various Drugs around the world carries on.
      I think you've picked the wrong religion to interpret the world around you.

    13. Re:FDIC by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Blockchains can't be hacked.
      It is simply a chain of signatures.

      It is basically the electronic equivalent of handing a check over to the next guy and signing its backside with your name.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    14. Re:FDIC by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      It's a chain of signatures that are crytpographically secure.

      As of now SHA 256 is secure. Can we imagine a time when it is no longer secure? Sure. Long before then (hopefully) we will have forked to SHA516 or SHA1024 or whatever.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    15. Re:FDIC by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      You just have to make the exchange to real currency illegal; all the BTC folks want the ability to buy shit from people that don't share their delusion of value, which is most of us.

    16. Re:FDIC by mikael · · Score: 1

      They don't need to hack bitcoin. They just need to "mine" it instead. Everyone is writing optimized SHA-256 hashing systems on everything from GPU's with CUDA to OpenCL, bitcoin mining pools. You even get custom ASIC's costing $1500 that just sit there and do bitcoin mining. Someone gets lucky and finds a valid bitcoin blockchain hash, they're $4000 richer. ASUS came out with a motherboard with 19 molex sockets so that 19 GPU cards can be plugged into the same motherboard.

      Home-brew supercomputers:

      https://img.huffingtonpost.com...
      https://img.huffingtonpost.com...

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    17. Re:FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is actually a problem that is being worked on in cryptocoin space so although you're right it's a problem right now, I think in the future there will be solutions to this problem which are settled in a distributed manner which is exciting to see happen.

    18. Re:FDIC by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      How is that hacking or bad for bitcoin (it's bad in that it's less decentralized) but that is not hacking.

      Everyone is using ASICS now. One cannot CPU or GPU mine anymore.

      GPUs produced hashrates of below 1GH/s and using 450w/hr (motherboard+cpu+ gpu)
      Then ASICs came out hashing at 100GH/s for the same wattage; then 400GH for the same wattage and now 14TH/s (14,000 GH/s) for 4 times the wattage.

      This makes the BTC mining community more centralized but it isn't a hack and it isn't directly harmful until there is a 51% attack.

      https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Non...
      https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Min...

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    19. Re:FDIC by mikael · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's not hacking. Because there is the opportunity to mine bitcoins there isn't any need to hack the bitcoin ayatem.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    20. Re: FDIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 1% attack would be a lot more dangerous than a 51% attack.
      A 51% attack means you control more than half the hash power of the network. As such you could build a divergent chain, and it would eventually have more hash strength than the legitimate chain.
      If you have less than 50% the legitimate chain will be "longer" or rather stronger (i.e. having more total hash proof acumulated), becuase the legitimate chain gains hash proof at a faster rate than the malicious chain.
      Bitcoin clients will reject a blockchain with less hash proof in favor of one with more hash proof. Hence, you need more than 50% of the network's hash power to rollback transactions. A very difficult feat.

  4. They can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and they should.

  5. Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by DatbeDank · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cryptocurrencies are currently the bubble du jour. As central banks have suppressed interest rates for so long, people are desperate for yield in anyway shape or form.

    Cryptocurrencies are the easiest thing to game and blow up into a bubble. People are rushing in and flipping it to a greater fool the same way people were doing this with houses back in the mid 2000s.

    Cryptocurrencies certainly have a lot of interesting uses, however their value is a direct threat to government control of currency. They're currently enjoying lax regulatory oversight which anyone with half a brain means that current valuations are bloated and in a perilous position if governments start deciding to heavily regulate it. I know, coindorks will come thrashing about saying "crypto will bypass this and become the next reserve currency!"

    No, if governments make ease of conversion into fiat difficult in anyway or outright ban it that will directly impact the price of the coins in the longterm.

    If you're using crypto presently, consider it purely a speculative play and continue to take profit along the way. If you've put your entire life savings into anything like this, you're an idiot and need to seriously reconsider your exposure to risk!

    1. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      2012:~$30 lol bubble
      2013:~$1000 lol bubble
      2017:~$4600 lol bubble

      Starting to see a pattern here.

    2. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Cryptocurrencies are currently the bubble du jour. As central banks have suppressed interest rates for so long, people are desperate for yield in anyway shape or form.

      They should have been in equity then? We've had pretty big growth in equity over the last 10-years on top of recovering from the crash because of low rates. Low rates should only really affect bonds (and savings accounts).

      People looking at cryptocurrencies really need to read The Four Pillars of Investing, particularly the history and psychology of investing.

    3. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by perpenso · · Score: 2, Interesting

      2012:~$30 lol bubble
      2013:~$1000 lol bubble
      2017:~$4600 lol bubble

      You left out:
      2014: ~$450
      2015: ~$230

    4. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your point being? The asset has continually made new highs on greater trade volumes since it's inception. Yearly price fluctuations are short term thinking. There are people who buy or hold now because they speculate that it will be worth much more 1 to 2 decades out from now.

      So far, BTC has been snaking along it's predicted long term trajectory. Just now it's moving above where the predicted average should be at this point in time, but still at a much lower average than what it's predicted to be in 5-10 years from now.

    5. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      The point being, it's a bubble.

      And anything that shakes confidence in cryptocurrencies will destroy that confidence and subsequently destroy it's price.

    6. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Cryptocurrencies are currently the bubble du jour

      Indeed. Anatomy of a bubble

      >They're currently enjoying lax regulatory oversight

      There is _no_ oversight. The US government did NOT create the Cryptocurrencies "coins" -- the have ZERO authority to tax them. Bitcoins are private property. PERIOD.

      The IRS doesn't tax my World of Warcraft gold either -- because they don't own it.

    7. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by perpenso · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point being that $1,000 was a very brief bubble, followed by years of collapse. $4,600 may also be a very brief bubble, followed by years of collapse.

      Using your logic the financial crisis of 2008 was irrelevant since on the scale of decades the economy will be up.

      You are quite correct in labeling those investing in Bitcoins with a decades long time frame as speculators. It is very risky speculation. Bitcoin has flaws, for example vulnerability to 51% attacks, mining being in the hands of a select few (ASICs) rather then its design assumption of mining being in the hands of the masses (CPUs, GPUs).

      The current spike to $4,600 is largely driven by a new class of speculators, wall street. However the "hype" over bitcoins on wall street is partly based on their misunderstanding of the technology. It is really blockchain technology, not bitcoin itself, that will revolutionize finance and the transfer of money. Bitcoin is merely one user of blockchain technology, the user that brought the underlying technology to the attention of the masses. Something based on blockchain technology will be used decades from now, whether that something is bitcoin is wildly speculative and frankly unlikely.

      Now none of this prevents speculators from making money, so long as there are still "greater fools" to sell to.

    8. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A HUGE assumption in this argument:
      1) Governments have the power to control or ban crypto currencies: There are many things that are currently banned by the government that can easily be obtained. Drugs come to mind first. Any teenager can go and get as much Pot as they want, they don't care that its banned by the government. The ban does now slow consumption, it only increases value. Many a ban or a regulation attempt will also increase crypto's value

    9. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by perpenso · · Score: 1

      And anything that shakes confidence in cryptocurrencies will destroy that confidence and subsequently destroy it's price.

      Especially given that the current spike in price is largely due to the influx of wall street investors, people whose automatic trading platforms will be dumping bitcoin at the speed of a natural language parser seeing a negative story floating across news sources.

    10. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is _no_ oversight. The US government did NOT create the Cryptocurrencies "coins" -- the have ZERO authority to tax them. Bitcoins are private property. PERIOD.

      Why, you're ... you're .... genius!!!!!! Cute but not true. I own property but if I don't pay the property tax I lose the property. 20 years ago there was no property tax on the same piece of land ...

      As for Bitcoin it's a joke. It can take days at a time to send funds because of its flimsy design, a design that wont go away anytime soon. Even the original developers are urging caution stating "only use money you can afford to part with", overall BTC sounds like a terrible investment.

      The technology itself has value for certain things (not all) and as many technology news pieces out these days most of it is just fluff to manipulate people.

    11. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      As long as bitcoin remains the gold standard backing all other crypto, no one is going to dump it. I am never overly optimistic, but bitcoin has become the gold standard and unless the crypto world disappears again or chooses a new backing standard for trading, its long term direction is only up.

    12. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      You are right. Many of the coins I see don't solve problems that other coins don't also solve. Most project only mint their own coin for profit. The handful of coins I consider long term are bitcoin because it's currently the backing standard of the crypto world, ethereum because people are building things on top of it AND using it om some exchanges to trade, and NEO because it provides some functionality like ethereum but it's Chinese and Chinese tend to favour Chinese tech (aliexpress instead of amazon etc)

      Granted, it may still one day disappear but so far I think that for the foreseeable future, projects will come and go but the total market cap will rise.

    13. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by perpenso · · Score: 1

      As long as bitcoin remains the gold standard backing all other crypto, no one is going to dump it. I am never overly optimistic, but bitcoin has become the gold standard and unless the crypto world disappears again or chooses a new backing standard for trading, its long term direction is only up.

      Crypto enthusiasts may persist but the wall streeters who currently drive the price sure as hell can abandon it. Blockchain technology will persist and be critical in the future, but bitcoin is just the flavor of the day using blockchain technology. Its entirely replaceable, its long term viability is wildly speculative.

      People will make money in the short term so long as the "greater fools" exist. Its OK to play that game as long as you acknowledge the risk.

      The "only up" long term notion is BS spin. Using that logic the economic crisis of 2008 is irrelevant because the long term upward trend of the economy is upward. The internet bubble of 2000 never happened because the long term trend of the stock market is up?

    14. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > I own property but if I don't pay the property tax I lose the property.

      You keep using this word "own". It doesn't mean what you think it means.

      Allodial Title is the ONLY legal concept of land ownership.

      But go ahead and keep complaining about "usage tax" and how you got conned into thinking you "owned" it. I suggest you go read Black's Law Dictionary in the meantime.

    15. Re:Ignore? It's a bubble they helped create! by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      A HUGE assumption in this argument:
      1) Governments have the power to control or ban crypto currencies: There are many things that are currently banned by the government that can easily be obtained. Drugs come to mind first. Any teenager can go and get as much Pot as they want, they don't care that its banned by the government. The ban does now slow consumption, it only increases value. Many a ban or a regulation attempt will also increase crypto's value

      Apples v. Oranges.

      Drugs and especially pot have value because you can get high with it.

      They tried to restrict gold dealers in Europe too in an attempt to prevent money laundering. Going to be very hard, because gold is gold and has value both intrinsically and industrially.

      Both of these have value because you can hold it with your hands. Fiat has value for a different reason. You have to pay taxes with it. Certain countries are ahead of the curve by accepting bitcoin for taxes, but they're still converting it into whatever the home currency is for tax purposes.

      With cryptocurrencies, how are sky high fiat valuations going to matter if there's no way to convert it into fiat because the SEC has banned exchanges from operating? What about if other governments follow suit as well?

      Sure, you can take those coins to an individual and negotiate cash , but now with the gauntlet of public opinion firmly negative against cryptocurrencies and the legal framework working against you you're now driven underground where the government hunts down individuals who operate illicit exchanges.

      But what can you buy with this currency? Businesses don't accept it, you can't pay taxes, and the few "illicit exchange" individuals you know both have wildly different conversion rates because there's no common market.

      See where i'm going with this?

      TL;DR You can't get high with cryptocurrencies nor can you pay taxes with them. If a ban happens, the size of your currency market will shrink to nothing and the conversion ratios between fiat and crypto will be wildly all over the place. It will continue to have value to crypto coin nerds, but not at the crazy valuations we see today.

  6. unspoken bias speaks volumes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How many bitcoin are the three authors, 4 contributor, and the various people whom the article quotes holding? This thinly-veiled, self-promoting, product placement article doesn't begin to address the fact that cryptocurrencies, despite all of the hype, don't really circulate. They are little more than quasi-anonymous parking places for "wealth"; and as long as their legitimacy is tied to their convertibility back into an internationally recognized currency, they will never be more than that.

  7. Which begs the question... by Pollux · · Score: 2

    Cryptocurrencies skirt all that and instead rely on their supposedly unhackable technology to guarantee value.

    Is it unhackable?

    Or, rather, is it less hackable than the status quo?

    And, is its value guaranteed? We at least have FDIC in the United States, but what happens to BitCoin if the system collapses?

    1. Re:Which begs the question... by niks42 · · Score: 1

      Are we sure that the NSA weren't involved in the development of the software involved, and haven't installed a killswitch of their own?

    2. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes were sure its open source genuis

    3. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but what happens to BitCoin if the system collapses?

      Forgive my ignorance, please, for I am just an anonymous coward, but isn't that the whole point of bitcoin- decentralized currency so that no one entity can manipulate it in a way that was not designed to be used?

      Each transaction takes a while, because other computers (decentralized) have to verify that the bitcoin is valid, as far as I recall reading. But, again, I am not an expert in cryptocurrency by any means.

    4. Re:Which begs the question... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      And, is its value guaranteed? We at least have FDIC in the United States, but what happens to BitCoin if the system collapses?

      FDIC doesn't guarantee the value of currency, only of savings.

      It's also unclear why FDIC is still needed. If you keep your money in an FDIC-insured account, you're a fool.

    5. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing in life is guaranteed. The US could collapse at any moment. Your just spreading FUD. There are real risks, but that's not what your talking about. To answer the question: The same thing that happens to your stocks if those you invested in collapse. Your value goes down. crypto as things stand are similar to stocks- but the difference is they can be easily traded. A risk that you could lose money is the price you pay when you make ANY investment. You do so anyway based on a gamble or educated guess about what the future holds because your return is going to be greater than sticking your money under the bed. When you save money in a bank account or cash you lose money (ie inflation). There are also less risky investments, but that isn't Bitcoin. There is a risk vs reward ratio for investments and depending on where you stand in life your money should be in one sort of investment or another. For most of ones working life one should be putting there money into riskier investments. You can recover and maximise your wealth over the long term (assuming you budget appropriately). Though you should still have some saving and diversify your asset portfolio (ie buy a house, throw some money at selective stocks, put something into crypto, buy insurance, put money into a CD/savings account for a rainy day, etc). In later life more and more of that money should be put into less risky investments. So as you hit 90- Bitcoin might not be the best place to put all your money.

    6. Re:Which begs the question... by erapert · · Score: 1

      FDIC doesn't guarantee the value of currency, only of savings.

      I'll go a step further: how will the FDIC guarantee the value of savings if it can't guarantee the value of currency?

      Bottom line: if your government collapses then your money is worth less than toilet paper and isn't nearly as absorbent.

      Buy land. If something comes along that is capable of destroying your land then you've bigger problems than your investment to worry about.

    7. Re:Which begs the question... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      It's pretty hard to destroy land, but it's not all that hard to destroy its value. That land you bought to build a couple of nice houses (and paid a corresponding price for) may lose much of its value if someone decides to build an oil refinery across the road. The good neighborhood you bought your land in might turn to shit. And if you bought land in a shit neighborhood, it might keep its value to some degree, but it can take a very long time to find a buyer when you are ready to sell. Land can be a good investment if you know what you're doing, but you should be able to absorb a loss or to hang on to it longer than you might want to.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    8. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That depends. Does P = NP or not?

      Stay tuned.

    9. Re:Which begs the question... by swb · · Score: 1

      And the value of land is determined...how? By the value of principal exchange, money. You can argue land is still intrinsically valuable (you can live on it, farm it, etc) or have some value in alternate money types (gold, bitcoins, etc).

      But chances are, if the value of primary money (dollars, etc) approaches zero, owning the land is probably marginally valuable unless you're obtaining intrinsic value from it (ie, you farm it, or you live on it).

      If land was such a great long-haul investment, I would kind of expect a handful of families to own most of the land in the US.

    10. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you keep your money in an FDIC-insured account, you're a fool.

      What are you advocating? Pretty much any bank account or CD is FDIC insured (or likely privately insured if the amount exceeds the FDIC threshold). These will all be things that pay little interest so you won't want them to be your only holdings, but to eschew them entirely seems extreme.

    11. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The boundaries of your land are tied to government, and if it collapses you may be sitting on someone else's land.

    12. Re:Which begs the question... by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      More to the point, if the money system collapses so will the system of property rights. If the dollar becomes worthless all you will have to protect any asset is a gun.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    13. Re:Which begs the question... by perpenso · · Score: 3, Informative

      Is it unhackable?

      No. There is an inherent flaw in the design, the 51% attack.

      "The mining pool ghash.io briefly exceeding 50% of the bitcoin network's computing power in July 2014, leading the pool to voluntarily commit to reducing its share of the network. It said in a statement that it would not reach 40% of the total mining power in the future."
      http://www.investopedia.com/te...

      Another flaw in bitcoin is that its design assumes that anyone can be a miner. That was an incorrect assumption. CPUs and GPUs can not economically mine bitcoin, specialized ASIC hardware is necessary. So mining is not done by the masses as assumed, it is done by a specialized few.

    14. Re:Which begs the question... by ShamblerBishop · · Score: 1

      It's perfectly possible that the partially-NSA-contributed crypto algorithm which underpins Bitcoin, may indeed have a backdoor - which would allow the NSA to much more easily mine Bitcoin - so yes, put your tin foil hats on everybody.

    15. Re:Which begs the question... by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Its not even less hackable unless you have your wallet offline. How many times have we seem sites compromised exchanges or malware looking for wallets?

    16. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the NSA/NIST wrote the elliptic curve cryptography used in Bitcoin.

      Monero specifically didn't use the same ECC as Bitcoin due to this potential vulnerability

    17. Re:Which begs the question... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      I'll go a step further: how will the FDIC guarantee the value of savings if it can't guarantee the value of currency?

      The FDIC doesn't guarantee the value of savings, only the nominal amount.

      Bottom line: if your government collapses then your money is worth less than toilet paper and isn't nearly as absorbent.

      That is true for government-issued and government-manipulated fiat currency. It isn't true of money in general.

      Buy land.

      Or anything else of durable value, or a fiat currency outside the control of governments like, oh, Bitcoin.

    18. Re:Which begs the question... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 2

      More to the point, if the money system collapses so will the system of property rights. If the dollar becomes worthless all you will have to protect any asset is a gun.

      I've said that if we have a collapse, I'd rather have lead than gold. And bitcoins, being virtual, would be even worse for bullets than gold.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    19. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The verb "begs" makes absolutely no sense here. Instead, "begs" is actually part of the set phrase "begging the question" which means something else entirely. And since you haven't a clue what the phrase "begging the question" means, the best thing to do is not use that phrase at all.

    20. Re:Which begs the question... by flink · · Score: 1

      Another flaw in bitcoin is that its design assumes that anyone can be a miner. That was an incorrect assumption. CPUs and GPUs can not economically mine bitcoin, specialized ASIC hardware is necessary. So mining is not done by the masses as assumed, it is done by a specialized few.

      This is why there are some new coins that attempt to limit how effective ASICs can be by using memory constrained algorithms rather than compute constrained ones.

    21. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh thanks, I had no idea what a fool I was. I'm liquidating all my MMs and savings and putting into internet funny money or a safe full of gold. Also going to call up all my friends and relatives and tell them to do the same with their CDs, savings, checking, and other cash equivalents. This is going to be a great day. The day user no. 5,019,381 finally clued m to what I've been doing wrong with finances in my 49 years.

    22. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't have that kind of concentrated land ownership yet but they're working on it.. Say what you will about subdivision, but at least it makes land available to non-$billionaires.

    23. Re:Which begs the question... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Does bitcoin work without electricity or the internet?

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    24. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm yeah... NO.

      Bitcoin is open source. On top of that it was started in the cypherpunk community... that is, the smartest crypto guys around. It's been up and running for what 8 years now? With the value ever increasing... meaning the higher the value the bigger the incentive to be hacked.

      That code base has been reviewed by 100's of thousands of programmers and even copied by several hundred to start clones.

      I'd put the odds of there being a backdoor in Bitcoin at about 0.0000000000000001%

      Please go ahead and ignore bitcoin, go ahead and put your money in manipulated stock markets. The FlashBoyz, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and the Central Banksters of the world thank you!

    25. Re:Which begs the question... by doctorvo · · Score: 2

      Does bitcoin work without electricity or the internet?

      What a stupid question.

      Inverted totalitarianism

      There is nothing "inverted" about American totalitarianism: it's the same kind of totalitarianism that socialist, progressive, and fascist countries have always had and that has always been rooted in state supported corporatism. And it is gullible fools like you that promote this state of affairs.

    26. Re:Which begs the question... by ShamblerBishop · · Score: 2

      Read the post again. It doesn't state that Bitcoin may have a backdoor - it states that the NSA-provided crypto algorithm which underpins Bitcoin, may have a backdoor.

    27. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that a >50% attack is still very limited in its effect. It cannot directly steal money from you; it can only cancel a transaction that was validated previously, with something similar to a roll-back of the database.

      So maybe you were paid for a product, sent the product, and then a large miner attacker decided to restart from a previous point in the history and erase your payment. But the further back in time he wants to rewind, the more difficult it is (needs 75%, or 95% of the hashing power); And he can probably do it only once, if at all, because as soon as it is detected, a patch will be made to ignore this specific jump by "checkpoints" on the blockchain.

    28. Re:Which begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "begging the question" is a bad translation of "petitio principii", itself a bad translation from Greek sources. The commonly accepted definition is the only correct one, unless you're something like a poorly-educated bookseller in the 17th Century. The phrase seems to be pretty good at drawing out ignorant pedants.

  8. Re:They can, have and will continue to do so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's been in a bubble since 2012 apparently. Still waiting for it to burst.

  9. Re: First post ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My apologies, hu-person. I did not mean to offend by assuming your gender.

  10. I'm counting, write your comments. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  11. LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 2

    Call me when I can walk down the street and buy a slice with it.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    1. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by ControlsGeek · · Score: 1
    2. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 2

      https://pizzaforcoins.com/

      Q: "Can I walk down the street and buy a slice?"

      A (cash): Yes.

      A (card): Yes.

      A (cryptocurrency): Okay: first, go to pizzaforcoins.com and enter your

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    3. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is great! If you live in the Bay Area. Or more specifically within walking distance of San Mateo. The other 99.978% of the population of the United States will not be obtuse to the OP's point, that cryptocurrency is nowhere even remotely close to universally accepted. Like, not even in the same relative dimension close.

    5. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should check to see if you can buy pizza using Euros, where you live. If you live in USA, you might find that currency to be just as seemingly unreal as BTC.

    6. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's as easy to use as any debit card. You can hook up a debit card to your BTC wallet quite easily. Very handy for traveling.

    7. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Places like Subway you can scan the QR code and pay in the store on the spot with bitcoin. So it's already here, dumbass.

    8. Re:LOOMING THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Credit card settlement network is pretty complicated too. If there is motivation to simplify, don't think it won't happen.

  12. yea, but... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 1

    Didn't you just post a story about how no one actually buys anything with it?

    So which is it? The Barbarian at the gate or a useless holding currency? Or some kind of intermediary that can coexist with the current banking system, which is needed to actually buy things.

    1. Re:yea, but... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      It's a bunch of people who don't grasp anything about economics or complex monetary systems being completely-fascinated with the strange thing they just discovered in their pants.

      It's a commodity. Go onto ETrade, short gold, and buy cotton with the proceeds. Congratulations: you just bought cotton with gold. You're expecting the relative value of cotton to increase over the relative value of gold. Welcome to arbitrage!

      Here's the fun bit: if both go down, but cotton falls less proportionally than gold (e.g. 1% cotton drop, 1.5% gold drop), you can sell cotton and buy back your short, and now you have more gold than you started with--except you started with no gold, so you just bought back all the gold you borrowed and sold, and have money left over after surrendering the gold to its original owner.

      You can also buy oil with frozen concentrated orange juice.

    2. Re:yea, but... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 1

      That's a good way to see it. As a commodity, although one that, more so than other things, has value only because people think it has value. So it still is a bit like a fiat currency, whereas cotton and gold can be put to physical uses. but I guess there is a lot of 'virtual' stuff that has market value like that. It's all gambling in the end.

    3. Re:yea, but... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It bugs me mainly because commodities make bad currencies--they're unstable and deflationary--and, in the case of virtual currencies, because Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are produced by the expenditure of labor to no useful end.

      When a person works, he expends time. For that time, we pay a wage. That wage (really, the total payroll cost--wage, benefits, taxes) is the cost of the good: if it takes 10 hours of labor at an average $10/hr to make a good, you have to charge $100 for that good to pay the workers. The price is labor plus profit; and there's cost of risk, which means your profit margins fluctuate even given the same activities, and so there's additional labor being paid some of the time to respond to changes in those variables (that's also what insurance covers).

      So we get paid, we buy goods, we pay for them, and our spending holds up the next paycheck. For our labor, we produce goods and receive money; then we trade that money for other goods, produced by labor. Money is just a representation of the time spent and the goods produced. Money is also at exchange rate: I might make $20/hr, you make $10/hr, so I work 1 hour and use my 1 hour to buy 2 of your hours--or the product thereof. You have to expend 2 of your hours to buy one of mine. Thus overall 3 hours of work are done, and I trade 2*(1hr) for your 1*(2hr), which gives a net-zero exchange of labor (I'm compensated with credit for 2 times my actual hours worked, if we're basing hours on your hours).

      So what happens if we have a war?

      A bunch of people work and get paid. The stuff they make doesn't go to other folks to get bought; rather it gets sent to another country to be blown up. War machines, weapons, ammunition, battle armor, boots, all of it wears down or is expended. The big machine of working men back here don't get a physical return--the tools of war are removed from our GDP, essentially. So for our traded labor hours, we end up with less stuff. This is exactly the same situation as living at a lower level of technology, wherein you work more hours to produce the same things.

      What about cryptocurrency?

      Build computers, generate electricity, and expend the output of that labor to generate a cryptocurrency. It's a number that says you can buy a thing--you can trade it for dollars--yet the work which you've done has produced nothing of any use. You've dug holes, filled them back in again, and been given a written declaration that you have done so.

  13. Cashless society by Wowsers · · Score: 2

    Central Banks will do whatever it takes to keep people hooked into their system, so once they axe cash to huge uproar, it will be easy to control everyone at the touch of a button, something they cannot do as long as cash and the metaphorical cash under mattress survives.

    The so called "bail in" that the ECB did to Cyprus circa 2013 was a test to see how easy it would be to raid people's bank / savings accounts once cash is axed, and if the bankers and governments could get away with it (they did).

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  14. Don't Forget The Public Ledger by ytene · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Whilst the headline of this article is certainly correct, it addresses only one small facet of a much larger problem with international finance. Public Ledger cryptosystems are far, far more than a form of digital cash. For example, one of the most lucrative forms of income for the big banks comes in the form of foreign currency exchanges, where it is customary to charge, for example, 2.75% "service charges" on transactions made in "non-local" currencies. Conversions from one currency to another always involve a "spread" - a difference between buying price and selling price - which is where the banks are creaming fat profits.

    Cryptocurrencies introduce direct competition to this rip-off market. If it is cheaper for me to convert some of my local currency [Pounds Sterling] into Bitcoin and then, upon arrival in say the United States, covert that from Bitcoin into US Dollars - then if those conversions have significantly lower transaction fees than a conventional Bureau de Change type of deal, then they offer a fantastic and useful market-disrupting alternative.

    An even more useful application of Bitcoin technology is the ledger itself. When transactions are conducted in a publicly-shared ledger, then it is possible for entities to exchange funding without actually needing a central bank at all. Most of the big banks are already looking at the "public ledger" aspect of the technology - not necessarily to start offering Bitcoin exchanges in high street branches, but to look to cut out central agencies like SWIFT and CLS and their kind.

    Interestingly, the central clearing banks (Federal Reserve, Bank of England, ECB, etc) could themselves be replaced by a public ledger for much of the daily transaction volumes that privately held banks (your JPMorgans and Barclays of this world) actually need. So maybe the central banks are looking to regulate cryptocurrency and related technologies as part of a move in self-preservation?

    1. Re:Don't Forget The Public Ledger by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      There are already direct competitors in the exchange market. If you're paying currency conversion fees you're wasting money because there are many traditional banking firms that perform such tasks for no cost at all.

      The reason they big players like Barclays and Lloyds get away with it are because customers in the UK are content with the status quo. You want to talk about horrible banks, look no further than the UK as a prime example.

      Banks that don't charge currency conversions fees in the UK are Norwich and Peterborough Building Society (no fees for withdrawal in foreign currency) and Metro Bank (no fee conversion for EU member states).

      Xe.com is also a great website for super affordable currency conversions. No fee wire transfers and will always beat out big banks any day.

      For US customers, Schwab also has a zero fee debit card for withdrawals both in the US and abroad.

      There's absolutely no point to be paying for ATM withdrawals, wire transfers, and even foreign currency conversion. Convince the big banks with you feet and move!

      Cryptocurrencies may have a future, but at it's current valuation? I doubt it and until TPTB decide enough is enough the end might be nigh for cryptocurrencies as a whole.

    2. Re:Don't Forget The Public Ledger by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Cryptocurrencies may introduce direct competition to this rip-off market at some point, maybe

      FTFY. BTC exchanges do exactly the same thing: they charge more for BTC than they pay for them. At a popular exchange here, the difference is about 2.65%. Sending money to someone overseas using BTC has the same problem, plus there's a transaction fee, which gets pretty steep at times if you want a reasonably fast confirmation. Sometimes banks are cheaper.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re: Don't Forget The Public Ledger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Central Banks does not do any of these things. They monitor various inducators in order to set various rates and give reccomendations to gouvernments. Yes they do publish exchange fixings but that is just used as an indicator and is cakculated from the exchange rates that the commercial banks contribute, i.e the Central Bank does not define the exchange rates.

    4. Re:Don't Forget The Public Ledger by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Banks that don't charge currency conversions fees in the UK are Norwich and Peterborough Building Society (no fees for withdrawal in foreign currency) and Metro Bank (no fee conversion for EU member states).

      Xe.com is also a great website for super affordable currency conversions. No fee wire transfers and will always beat out big banks any day.

      While they don't charge a fee, there's still a spread. If you convert US$100 to Euros and back to USD fee-free, you'll end up with about $97.50. Xe.com tends to have tighter spreads, though occasionally a big bank will best it (Amex used to allow you to use their charge card in other countries fee-free at their exchange rate, which had a considerably tighter spread than peons like you and me can get).

      The spread represents the cost of handling the transaction, the risk the party doing the exchange takes (everyone always assumes the worst - that the currency they're giving up will rise and the currency they're taking from you will tank), and a small profit margin.

      Cryptocurrencies may have a future, but at it's current valuation?

      Unless/until the value of cryptocurrencies stabilizes, they have no future as a currency. And since there's no regulating entity which modulates the number of [*]coins available to track closely with the number of economic transactions using those [*]coins, their value can only remain stable through blind luck. So they are and will continue to be a speculative commodity, not a currency.

    5. Re:Don't Forget The Public Ledger by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

      What you are describing is actually the reason why bitcoin was created and why it is tolerated.

      We are returning to a Bretton Woods system, whereby foreign exchange by private entities will be banned.

    6. Re:Don't Forget The Public Ledger by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      Even with the spread that FOREX firms use as their fee have you factored in the cost that folks like Coinbase and others charge for their commission to convert BTC into fiat? Coinbase's fee for US accounts is 1.49%, i'm not sure how you'd compare it to Xe.com's fees. I'd hazard a guess however that it beats out coinbase's fee.

      I'd still bet more on tradational forex to beat out crypto exchanges on fees.

  15. The purpose of Bitcoin and gold by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    THe purpose is by ultra conservatives and libertarians who want 0 intervention is to use something where the government or banks can't do anything to destroy value.

    In their eyes if government didn't exist then inflation and crashes would NEVER EVER happen. So what can the central bank do? Either the libertarians and ultra conservatives will be right and it will never crash as that only happens due to the government interfering with the free market or it will go down and the investors with that philosophy will be laughed at with a told you so rebuke.

    Since bitcoins are not considered money I can picture the FBI or an act of congress to ban or it put an end to the chain and kill it that way. This will cause people to get their muskets from their fireplaces 1776 style, but everyone else doesn't consider that theft as it is not real money.

    1. Re:The purpose of Bitcoin and gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inflation, not crashes.

      Crashes are natural and can also be caused by government interference even outside of currency manipulation. Nobody is ever going to have a system where crashes don't happen. Crashes happen with dollars, euros, bitcoins, gold, or seashells.

      But overall inflation is a government interference with currency thing. Cryptocurrency is hoped to be a defense against that. We are definitely, and hopelessly, fucked with dollars. So the hope is to become less fucked.

  16. translation by doctorvo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Central banks cannot afford to treat cyber currencies as toys to play with in a sand box," said Andrew Sheng

    Translation: "OMG, we can't screw over regular people anymore by manipulating the money supply or charging excessive fees for transactions."

    Well, Mr. Sheng, perhaps you can't ignore cyber currencies, but cyber currencies can ignore you. That's kind of the point.

  17. [ANN] [ICO] TesticularCancerCoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TesticularCancerCoin as a solution

    Current situation

    The testicular cancer industry has been around for a while and is extremely big nowadays. Because of the size of the industry, legal and illegal, it is hard for the government to fight corruption. There are different types of regulations, however these regulations have proven themselves to be ineffective in the long run.

    The regulations are a smokescreen for the survivors, acting as make believe. But in most cases the big corporations have their own people behind the controls, making sure they take home the money at the end of the day.

    Another dangerous route for the survivor is the underground testicular cancer industry. This industry consists out of several dangerous elements for the survivor.
    The underground testicular cancer industry has a lot of violence and intimidation towards its survivors, and people tend to get trapped in the underground world.

    TesticularCancerCoin as a solution

    With TesticularCancerCoin we provide a decentralized testicular cancer platform. Our goal is to take away all of the risks of the current testicular cancer industry. We depend on our Smart Contracts to verify results and pay out suvivors accordingly.

    There cannot be any middlemen behind the scenes taking their own share, and there are no unregulated places where you, as a user, have the risk of losing your funds.

    Since the TesticularCancerCoin platform does not issue any high fees like standard testicular cancer corporations, we can offer our users higher odds. These higher odds result in higher pay outs for our users.
     

  18. Neckbeards unite! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neckbeards and fedoras unite! Join in hands in your parent's basement!

  19. Sure...Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mods should stop allowing so much blatant advertising spam.

    As for the article what does bitcoin have to offer that the modern financial sector doesn't already? Ridiculously high processing fees? Non-existant regulation exposing users to disastrous financial harm? Jargon filled press releases designed to distract from important issues? Fragmented user experience? Easy access to money laundering? A 'Just trust me!' attitude towards stability and continued access to your own money?

    At best bitcoin is little more than a flash in the pan, at worst its a massive ponzi scheme. Sure the price is high in theory, but just try moving any substantial amounts to cash. Then imagine if lots of people tried at the same time. Heck, even buying a cup of coffee is a shit show. I think the banking profession is safe for another day.

  20. Bitcoin is so last week by Drunkulus · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wager 200 quatloos on the newcomer.

    1. Re:Bitcoin is so last week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know if you were joking about quatloos from Star trek, but yes there is actually already a crypto named that, read into that what you will.

  21. Bubblicious by Moof123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are some 900 cryptocurrencies at the moment, more variants than there are real currencies. I've been amazed the whole thing has maintained its hype so long. I expect a huge collapse before too long (not sure if its a year or ten however), as currently huge swaths of money are going into mining, but the amount of actual legal commerce enabled has been rounding error. At some point too many coin holders will ask the question: "Now what?"

    Failing that I expect that when one too many criminal cases (especially money laundering and tax evasion) will get stymied by their involvement we will have major governments crack down and outlaw their anonymous sale and the whole mess will collapse. My conspiracy theory is that the NSA and its ilk have probably already cracked things well enough to track what is really going on, if not operating some of the exchanges themselves. Perhaps the whole thing has been turned into a giant honeypot already...

    1. Re:Bubblicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      have probably already cracked things well enough to track what is really going on

      The blockchain is public. The tricky part is identifying who the participants are for each of the transactions IN the blockchain, but that's really not much different from tracking people down on the internet for any other reason...law enforcement have a pretty good handle on that, I think.

    2. Re:Bubblicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The wonderful thing about conspiracy theories is you can make up whatever you want with no corroborating evidence whatsoever, just your imagination, and then you can call it a "theory".

  22. Mining pools can exceed 50% by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Re 51% attack - that's getting pretty close to impossible even for governments.

    It wasn't a government, but Bitcoin has already had a single entity in a position to launch a 51% attack, fortunately they did not desire to "attack".

    "The mining pool ghash.io briefly exceeding 50% of the bitcoin network's computing power in July 2014, leading the pool to voluntarily commit to reducing its share of the network. It said in a statement that it would not reach 40% of the total mining power in the future."
    http://www.investopedia.com/te...

    1. Re:Mining pools can exceed 50% by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Yes. In 2014. It's far more difficult today. Although a consortium of mining pools can reach 51% each pool is made up of thousands of individual miners.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    2. Re:Mining pools can exceed 50% by perpenso · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes. In 2014. It's far more difficult today. Although a consortium of mining pools can reach 51% each pool is made up of thousands of individual miners.

      There is little difference between 2014 and today, if anything its slightly worse today. We are even farther from the point where the masses could economically participate in mining; it is an even more specialized, an even more commercialized, effort that it once was. We are every bit as vulnerable to the good intentions of pool operators today as we were in 2014.

    3. Re:Mining pools can exceed 50% by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Yes. In many ways you are correct. I would love for the coin of choice to be CPU or GPU based as opposed to ASIC. But there it is.

      Still you have thousands of people who own a few Antminer S5s and S7s and S9s whose combined power make up a pool. Are there some operators with farms of 1000s of ASICS? Yes, of course.

      Right now the top 4 pools could, theoretically launch a 51% attack.
      https://blockchain.info/pools

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    4. Re: Mining pools can exceed 50% by ChrisGrippo · · Score: 1

      That's what Vertcoin was made for, ASIC resistant mining.

  23. I'm getting pessimistic in my dotage by bradley13 · · Score: 2

    "Money as we know it depends on the authority of the state for credibility, with central banks typically managing its price and/or quantity. Cryptocurrencies skirt all that and instead rely on their supposedly unhackable technology to guarantee value."

    Yeah, about that. Money used to be issued by private banks. Governments took took over this duty, not because they are any better at it, but because they wanted the power. There are still private currencies and complementary currencies, in countries that allow them, but they are likely only tolerated because their circulation is so small.

    The internet initially allowed the completely free exchange of information, and some of us were naive enough to hope that it would reduce the power and dominance of nation states. Unfortunately, most people didn't care enough, and have let governments impose national-level regulations on this exchange of information: everything from the "Great Firewall of China" to Europe's "right to be forgotten". The potential of the internet has been hobbled.

    Cryptocurrencies are likely next. Until now they have been nearly irrelevant. If the problems of transaction frequency can be solved, and they begin to be more widely accepted for payment, national governments will begin to take a dim view of currencies outside of their purview. Regulation will quickly follow. In most countries, the local tax authority has full access to your banking information - expect them to demand the ID of your cryptocurrency wallet, so that they can track your BitCoin transactions. Anonymous currencies like Monero may be prohibited outright (though enforcement will be difficult).

    Goverments want power. Money is power, currency is money.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  24. Bubble and crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since its value is heavily based on speculation, and is immune to ethical account management such as reversing mistakes and fraud, I look forward to the cryptocurrency crash of 2029. Luckily the big banks will have invested heavily in it by that time, resulting in a worldwide depression.

    1. Re:Bubble and crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when I do my taxes for currencies, I can feed my wallet and exchange addresses into some nifty software and it'll do everything for me. If it get's audited, I can show the blockchain transactions and accompanying receipts with little effort.

      As for fraud, with other institutions, the creditors or borrowers usually end up eating the cost.

      So whats your spiel again about "ethical account management"?

  25. Re:They can, have and will continue to do so by perpenso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's been in a bubble since 2012 apparently. Still waiting for it to burst.

    Wrong, it crashed from $1,000 to $250 from 2013 to 2015.

  26. Does Bitcoin's NSA crypto have a backdoor? by ShamblerBishop · · Score: 1

    The NSA designed the crypto algorithm at the heart of Bitcoin - SHA-2 - if it has a backdoor, then potentially the NSA can mine Bitcoin far more easily than the average Bitcoin miner. We already know the NSA backdoored previous encryption algorithms - it would be incredibly useful for them to have a backdoor in the worlds largest cryptocurrency as well - providing an excellent covert source of funding for them (probably among many other things). It would be deeply ironic if the cryptocurrency that many people laud for allowing an escape from the evils of fiat currency, ended up have a state-created backdoor at its very heart.

  27. The amount of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hurt and cognitive dissonant in the comments is real.

  28. there's no boom. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they're all scams, with the vast majority of 'currency' being "mined" by the russian and chinese governments. wouldn't surprise me if the "exchanges" were being manipulated by them as well.

  29. Get Bitcoins while you still can! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  30. they aren't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    banks have been trading cryptocurrency for years.

  31. Score:-5, Pwned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
  32. Precious metals and gems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "with central banks typically managing its price and/or quantity. Cryptocurrencies skirt all that"

    Gold, silver, and gems skirt central banks more than any cryptocurrency will ever do. Can you walk into your local grocery store and pay in Bitcoin? No? Oh. But precious metals and gems always retain value and survive market fluctuations, including market crashes. That's why silver is one of the oldest currencies.

    The only thing that will kill off a precious metal's value is if it becomes as common as paper. Paper currency is ideal when it is backed by things of physical value. It's an "old school" way of thinking but also a very correct one! Perhaps the only correct model.

  33. You failed the banks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have not done all your $ thru bank cards and checking accounts. Actually, some of you that do not bend knee to Banks, have continued to use green $ for transactions, knowing the Banks get nothing from those transactions. Banks must get a part of every money exchange, they are self entitled to get part of every $ exchange. Crypto currencies deprive the Banks. Getting paid in crypto currencies will be the ultimate sin. Some of you will so sin, even revel in that sin.

    Shame on you!

  34. Re:They can, have and will continue to do so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's bitztream the autism-hating, custom EpiPen-hating, Musk-hating, Qualcomm-hating, Firefox tabs-hating Slashdot troll!

  35. How's life in the hypocrite lane?

  36. Money is the real Social Contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The liberty to choose money is the guarantee for a Free Society

    "Money, even more so than democracy, embodies the essence of the social contract. Its legitimacy comes from its acceptance, freely chosen by all users.
    The fundamental role of money in exchange explains its catalytic action in the seeding of the development of human societies, long before the emergence of democratic institutions. Finally, currency manipulation inevitably causes the decline of a society, as democratic as it may be."

    https://fee.org/articles/money-is-the-real-social-contract