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TechRepublic: Mozilla 'Is Desperately Needed to Save the Web' (techrepublic.com)

"I can't remember the last time I cared about Mozilla," writes Matt Asay at TechRepublic. "I also can't remember a time when we needed it more." An anonymous reader quotes TechRepublic: Mozilla's Firefox is almost a rounding error in desktop market share, and nonexistent in mobile browser market share. It offers a few other services, like Pocket, but largely gets ignored... This is a mistake. Our world is increasingly mediated by the internet, and that internet has just a few gatekeepers, collecting tolls as we browse. As Python guru Matt Harrison put it, "Vendors control the default browser which 99.9% of people use." Those vendors are happy to sell us access to information. Nothing about it is free. You are most definitely the product.

On mobile, where the majority of the world's content is now consumed, Google and Facebook own eight of the top 10 apps, with apps devouring 87% of our time spent on smartphones and tablets, according to new comScore data. For that remaining 13% of time spent on the mobile web, Google and Apple offer the two dominant browsers... the majority of our time online is now mediated by just a few megacorporations, and for the most part their top incentive is to borrow our privacy just long enough to target an ad at us. Then there's Mozilla, an organization whose mantra is "Internet for people, not profit." That feels like a necessary voice to add to today's internet oligopoly, but it's not one we're hearing... We clearly need an organization standing up for web freedom, as expecting Google to do that is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse. Google does many great things, but its clear incentive is to sell ads. We are Google's product, as the saying goes.

The article applauds the Mozilla-sponsored Rust programming language as promising, "but not to save the web from the all-consuming embrace of Facebook and Google, especially as they wall off the experience in apps... "If I sound like I don't know what to propose Mozilla should do, it's because I don't. I simply feel strongly that the role Mozilla played in the early browser wars needs to be resurrected to save the web today."

167 of 317 comments (clear)

  1. Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... except Mozilla.

    Every release they make the browser worse. Their mantra is "just like Chrome, except slower and with more bugs." No wonder people switch to Chrome.

    Firefox is supposed to be the browser that people use because they care - they want to customize, they want features, they want control. But with every release this slips a little farther away. Things constantly stop working, and it gets harder and harder for the extension makers to keep up.

    Oddly, Android is the one place where Firefox is still actually better than Chrome - because it's got a real ad blocker. Sure, it's slow and crashes all the time, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

    But at least there's Pocket! Oh yay.

    1. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most extension makers have already given up. People who have been coding and maintaining extensions for decades are now retiring because Firefox kicked their extensions out. Running Firefox without extensions is just not an option. When all relevant Firefox extensions get disabled on November 14, I'll just try to stick with the last working version and hope there aren't too many exploits against it. But my enthusiasm for Mozilla is completely gone. I don't think they can "save the web" if they can't even keep their browser working.

    2. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I switched to Chrome years ago because:

      1) The interface was much more minimal than FF at the time
      2) Chrome crashed less
      3) Chrome was noticeably faster

      Tbh I haven't tried FF since then, it may have improved a lot, but for me Chrome just works (and well). I'd be happy to switch back if FF felt fast, stable and had the plugins I use (and has awesome dev tools like Chrome).

    3. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I used to hate Firefox on Android, even though it got a proper adblocker, simply because it was so slow and buggy that it was unusable. However, they recently released a new app Firefox Focus, and that is now my main mobile browser. It's faster than Chromium, it blocks ads and trackers by default, and it automatically removes cookies and so on when you close it.

    4. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I used Firefox on Android with the self-destructing cookies plugin (best cookie management policy ever: moves cookies away after you leave a site, so the next visit doesn't see them, but keeps them for a bit in case you decide later that you needed them). Unfortunately, their hostile relationship with F-Droid (which could be fixed by simply providing their own F-Droid repo) meant that updating became painful and so I switched to using the new Chrome-based browser that comes with LineageOS.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Opera matches chrome in every way, plus more features (built in vpn for example) and no Google spyware.

    6. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      No that was the old Mozilla/Seamonkey suite. Firefox as a whole was the browser people chose because they did not care. FF scrapped a lot of good features and customization, offered nothing new, it was lighter weight for all of like three releases...

      FF is where Mozilla started to go wrong! They should have re-branded the suite and fixed the performance issuers there at the time.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    7. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Firefox is supposed to be the browser that people use because they care - they want to customize, they want features, they want control

      Yep, and the less than 10% of internet users who care about that stuff actually use it. Don't confuse the general public with the desires of the Slashdot IT elite. Most people couldn't care less about customisation. A few of the general public care only enough to use something that allows them to install an ad blocker, but most don't even care about that.

      They want simple, elegant, functional, and out of the way, not at all the browser that Slashdot envisages as ideal.

    8. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Lisandro · · Score: 2

      Opera is a de-facto Chrome skin this days. A crying shame.

      I run Chromium these days, and keep a close eye on Vivaldi. But it is not quite there yet.

    9. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by brickhouse98 · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you've used it lately but I'd give it a go. Much, much faster since x64 is default AND electrolysis mainly. And to be fair- we here on /. are the in minority. A lot of people actually want things like pocket, hello, etc.

    10. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 2

      they want to customize, they want features, they want control

      just like Chrome, except slower and with more bugs

      Did it occur to you that the former might be one possibly cause of the latter? Because the design goals of "Loaded with features that have a million different options and permutations that the user can control" and "performant and bug free" seem to me totally at odds.

      Every new feature adds (usually) bugs, degrades (some) performance and (surely) consumes engineering resources that could be spent on stability. And then, you get to allocate testing resources to the new feature to find and polish it, testing resources that could be spent elsewhere.

      The same is true for the proliferation of user-controlled options. And the complexity burden is not just linear, each option can potentially impact every use case with every other option and every other feature, so you can quickly end up with an explosion of possibilities. True story, I once worked with folks that had designed a library with more than 400 possible configuration values in a file somewhere. Assuming each one was just a boolean (in fact, some were enumerations), that means the had 2**400 potential ways configurations that the library could be run. For reference, there's less than 2**270 atoms in the whole universe.

      None of this is to say that "features" or "customizability" are not worthy goals. Just like none of this implies that "performance", "stability" or "lack of bugs" are not worthy goals. But if you are engaged in the actual act of building software, you have to acknowledge that those goals are at odds and that you have finite resources with which to develop, test and refine software.

    11. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Continue to make these unfounded assertions

      I take you you don't know or understand most people.

    12. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by doom · · Score: 1

      Two words for you, "ad blocker". A customization option is something no one much cares about until everyone cares about it. The point that people are making here is pretty solid: for years, the best reason to use firefox was it could be customized, so they did their best to fix that, and here we go again for another round of breaking everything.

    13. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by doom · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the conspiracy theories are tempting, but the entire UX world seems to have a similar disease. When Faaborg was trying to sell everyone on tabs-on-top, he started spouting the line "First they hate it, then they love it": that sums up the Designer Philosophy in a nutshell. They're willing to do stuff to you that you hate, because they know better, they're completely confident you'll come around... so they can do more stuff to you that you'll hate.

    14. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by mea2214 · · Score: 2

      Firefox recently auto updated itself (I forgot to disable it) and now my sound doesn't work because Firefox only supports Pulseaudio which is a pile of shit that caused my Ubuntu system to repeatedly crash. So I'm ALSA only. Fire up Chrome and it has no problem playing audio with ALSA only. There needs to be some kind of hippocratic oath for software where the first requirement is "do no harm." Windows 10, systemd, Gnome, etc. could also benefit from that philosophy.

    15. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by SEE · · Score: 1

      And yet, as Mozilla tries more and more to cater to "the general public", its market share declines. On the other hand, when it emphasized things of concern to the "Slashdot IT elite", like standards support, lots of configuration options, and development frameworks that beyond mere extensions (XPCOM, XUL), its market share grew.

      It's almost as if the general public pays so little attention to software that they'll use whatever happens to be installed on their machine, rather than even look at your offering. And thus that if you don't have Microsoft or Google-level muscle to push your browser, the only alternative is making something that appeals to the "Slashdot IT elite" in hopes they'll install it on the computers of their friends and family for you. And if you piss them off by taking a power saw to the features that attracted them, the "Slashdot IT elite", your market share will collapse.

      Nah. The people who have been driving Firefox market share down for the last five years surely know what they're doing. Keep cheerleading all the way into the ground, thegarbz!

    16. Re:Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And yet, as Mozilla tries more and more to cater to "the general public"

      Ahhh but do they? Introducing the latest Firefox just like the previous Firefox with .... errr .... no marketing behind it, and this thing called pocket which you have no idea what it does. Awesome heh.

      Don't confuse not pandering to the SlashCrowd with "catering to the general public". It's quite possible to not do either.

      It's almost as if the general public pays so little attention to software that they'll use whatever happens to be installed on their machine

      The year of Edge on desktop? Nah don't think so.

    17. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Two words for you, "ad blocker".

      Two words for you: pea soup. Sorry were you trying to make a point? Ad blockers work fine on the new WebExtensions API. You can upgrade your Firefox right now to the latest nightly and uBlock origin (the most popular ad blocker) will happily keep running.

      The point that people are making here is pretty solid: for years, the best reason to use firefox was it could be customized

      Yes but that has nothing to do with their market share now does it given that browser market share seems to be inversely proportional to the level of customisation.

    18. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by doom · · Score: 1

      Sorry were you trying to make a point? Ad blockers work fine on the new WebExtensions API

      Yes, the point I'm making is that there are customizations the pwople really do want, which is to say that your main premise has some minor holes in it. But feel free to keep moving those goal post around, it could be you need the exercise.

      I might also make some other points, that there isn't any obvious reason an open source project should care about "market share"-- ten percent of the web is still a big chunk of the web, and it's big enough to exert some leverage on the rest of it-- like if google moves to the dark side a little too blatantly, you can get a mss migration back to fire-lit side.

      The point that people are making here is pretty solid: for years, the best reason to use firefox was it could be customized

      Yes but that has nothing to do with their market share now does it given that browser market share seems to be inversely proportional to the level of customisation.

      But we're talking about history, and how we got to this point. It could be that it wasn't actually such a great idea for Firefox to continually piss off the most loyal segment of it's user-base by telling them that they don't matter because mozilla is going after the pinhead masses, and look at how pretty our new curvey tabs are (oh, I mean our old tabs, because it turns out they weren't so cool after all...).

      I might also make the point that using precisely the same strategy as the other guys does not actually create much in the way of "product-differentiation", as in Firefox's current moves: "switch back to firefox, we're going to be just like chrome!"

      (And futher, it would be kind of cool, if someone, somewhere wasn't scheming on going after mobile phones: the ultimate point-and-drool interface, pretty much useless for anything like serious work...)

    19. Re: Everyone knows what Mozilla needs to do... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      But feel free to keep moving those goal post around, it could be you need the exercise.

      I said few users care about customisations. You asserted that they care about things like Ad block. I pointed out that isn't changing. If you think that is moving the goalposts then I have nothing more to discuss with you.

  2. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mozilla is too busy trying to be an inferior version of Google as evidenced in their attempts to convert Firefox into an inferior version of Chrome.
    Mozilla lost its philosophy and soul during that period when it was subsidized by Google, and that's when everything started turning to shit for the company.
    As far as wasting money on diversity programs and social justice instead of improving its products, well the latest financial report that emphasizes ruin talks for itself.
    Forget about Mozilla, it's time to give some of the Firefox forks some support and attention. Mozilla has been corrupted by Google and its philosophy.

    1. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Forget about Mozilla, it's time to give some of the Firefox forks some support and attention. Mozilla has been corrupted by Google and its philosophy.

      Mozilla is still doing the majority of development on Firefox, so completely abandoning them is really not going to work. The forks all end up having to re-integrate their work and rebase off the latest Mozilla HEAD repeatedly. What is needed now is a Firefox Foundation which is independent of Mozilla and which can commit to supporting the key core components everybody wants to use whilst allowing each fork to have it's own policies and politics and advertiser relations. Let's see the SJW and Alt-Right crazies fight it out in actual code deliveries. May the best small furry creature from Alpha Centauri win!

    2. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Mozilla is still doing the majority of development on Firefox, so completely abandoning them is really not going to work.

      Their work is what we're trying to abandon.

    3. Re:Nope by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ah, the angry, stupid AC troll. You guys are real pieces of shit. Yes, I'm sure that Mozilla is having problems because they committed the awful, awful sin of trying to hire not all white guys., Go fuck yourself.

      You mean mozilla is pushing for the hiring of people who have no fucking clue, and support people who implement codes of conduct in Rust in order to witch hunt people? Gee, I wonder why people would be annoyed at a company who's pushing that type of "diversity."

      Fuck hiring the best, we're gonna hire the trans-black-lesbian-midget-transracial thingy with 23 made-up genders because it looks the best for our religion and we can show off to everyone just how progressive we are.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  3. Their plan to save the web: Redesign FF UI again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The entire browser is going to be hidden under one giant hamburger button. No menus, no URL bar, no scroll bars, hell no rendering window. Just one giant hamburger button that crashes the browser when you click it.

    You heard it here first, folks.

  4. Freedom via Mozilla by Etcetera · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... As long as you don't think any incorrect thoughts. Then you can't work there any more.

    We absolutely need projects like Mozilla's to fight once again against monopolistic powers. But their focus must be on technology and OSS. Not prosecuting unrelated thought crimes.

    1. Re:Freedom via Mozilla by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      ... As long as you don't think any incorrect thoughts. Then you can't work there any more.

      You can think whatever you want and nobody will ever know. But when you start doing things, people find out about your actions, by which you shall be judged. Not by god, but by anyone with a brain.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. They dug their own grave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Firefox at one time had nearly half of all browser usage, but then they dumbed it down and moved things around just to follow fashions and trends, or just for the hell of it. And when users complained, they told them to shove it, more or less, which made their users go to chrome, safari, Opera, and even edge (lol).

    Firefox dug their own grave. As noble as their intentions may be to open up the Web, maybe they should first start by respecting their own customers.

    1. Re:They dug their own grave by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mozilla reminds me of people who profess a desire for world peace, but then get into petty feuds with their neighbors. They can't seem put what they advocate into practice on a small scale, which tends to undermine confidence in their capacity to advocate and execute their larger mission.

      Mozilla has one project that really matters, and they employ a lot of people. Why Firefox isn't hands-down the world's best browser is beyond me.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:They dug their own grave by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Mozilla reminds me of people who profess a desire for world peace, but then get into petty feuds with their neighbors.

      Maybe their neighbors are being abusive, and they can't have peace while the abuse continues.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:They dug their own grave by retchdog · · Score: 2

      I do wonder about this sometimes. Hypothetically, suppose that Google and, say, Facebook make a Devil's Alliance to propose, on an ongoing basis, backward-incompatible de-facto browser extensions and technical requirements for plugins, etc., all in the name of worthwhile causes such as security, an open web, ease of interoperability, streaming, payment, etc., but at such a breakneck pace with convoluted requirements that it's all but impossible for a company without 10,000+ employees to keep up. If the "web at large" (which, make no mistake, mostly goes along with the diktat of major players like Google and Facebook who literally hold the purse strings of advertisers) demands innovation at a pace where the "open alternative" can't keep up, then the open alternative dies from seemingly-natural causes.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    4. Re: They dug their own grave by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Or they could you know, shut up and just do their job instead of engaging in politicts?
      But no, not mozilla. Because that's too logical for millenials.

      Any time you have a disagreement involving three or more people, you've got politics. Pretending otherwise is childish, and willfully ignorant. Ignoring politics is how Texas just got screwed, specifically harmful politics in both zoning and environmental protection.

      You know what's illogical? Pretending that things aren't happening.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:They dug their own grave by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

      > but at such a breakneck pace with convoluted requirements that it's all
      > but impossible for a company without 10,000+ employees to keep up.

      Cool story bro. Mozilla seemed to be able to find resources to do not only a mobile app, but an entire mobile OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... And let's not forget developing a new programming language (RUST), Pocket, Hello, gratuitously changing the UI to Atrocious^H^H^H^H^H Australis, revamping/destroying their entire plugin architecture, etc, etc, etc. But waaah, waaah, waaah, we don't have enough resources to support ALSA on linux, waaaah, waaah, waaah.

      Strangely enough, much smaller projects like Pale Moon still support ALSA.

      --

      I'm not repeating myself
      I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
    6. Re:They dug their own grave by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      In 2008, it was acknowledged that there were 42 engineers working on Chrome. Let's generously assume the headcount has doubled since then. Mozilla has over a thousand employees, a number it hit a few years ago, I believe.

      In short, Mozilla could get away with having a fraction of their current headcount and Firefox would probably be better off for it. All their side-projects have been sucking the life out of that organization, and distracting them from improving the one product that everyone cares about. It's great that Mozilla has such a high-minded mission statement, but they need a solid product in the browser market, or else they become little more than an internet think-tank.

      My prediction: within five years, you're going to hear about massive layoffs at Mozilla, slashing perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 of their current headcount.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    7. Re:They dug their own grave by retchdog · · Score: 1

      i already said it was a hypothetical; you don't need to be such a condescending dick. i've been around to hear enough discussions along the lines of "i'll talk to my friend at Google/Microsoft/Mozilla and see about getting that implemented", that the possibility of some weird collusion isn't completely crazy.

      nonetheless, i agree with you that it's a far-fetched possibility given the information, and that Occam's Razor would imply that Mozilla is simply exhibiting their own organizational inability.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  6. Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Dracos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...specifically since January 8, 2008, working to be as irrelevant, feckless, and misguided as they are now. The only positive and notable thing they've done for the web in that time is Let's Encrypt.

    Two versions of Firefox from now, they will jettison what made their browser great: the extensions. Mozilla needs a radical change in direction to save itself.

    1. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Two versions of Firefox from now, they will jettison what made their browser great: the extensions.

      Prove it. The extensions API is changing, that's all. I'm using the WebExtensions version of uBlock Origin (version 1.14.4) in Firefox 56 beta and it works fine. Tree Style Tab is another add-on people like and the WebExtensions version is in development.

      Add-ons will either migrate to the new API or they won't. If WebExtensions APIs to support your pet add-on are missing, then get involved and add them. Mozilla wants you to.

    2. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Deb-fanboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      they will jettison what made their browser great: the extensions.

      And that is why I am having to use the browser 'Pale Moon' in order to use the extensions I love such as Pentadactyl.

      Since firefox have disregarded what was great about their browser, i.e. the extensions, they are effectively killing it.

    3. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1, Informative

      they are effectively killing it.

      How? Extensions still exist and Firefox 57 really is a whole lot faster. You should try out the nightly version now, or wait for 57 to move to beta.

    4. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by jez9999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If WebExtensions APIs to support your pet add-on are missing, then get involved and add them.

      Why the hell should we? Mozilla ignored what their users wanted and scrapped an extensions architecture that worked fine. Now you want us to reward them by putting work in to port stuff over? Hell no.

    5. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      WebExtensions loses all of the customisation for the browser itself - I couldn't give 2 shits about content plugins, they were already fairly easily ported between browsers. Add-ons like BeyondAustralis and FireBug are what made Firefox awesome and unique - Chrome, Safari, Opera and related browsers have almost zero customisation - you can't even move UI elements around with your mouse, let alone add them or change behaviour with add-ons.

      BeyondAustralis is gone, so all the nice little tweaks (auto-hiding bookmark bars, better tabs, slim chrome) will be unavailable in new versions of FF. FireBug was useful enough to be picked apart and integrated directly into the browser before the plugin became completely broken (as parts of the new DOM Inspector), though in a feature-reduced form. There's plenty of other examples, these are just the two I miss the most.

    6. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 4, Informative

      scrapped an extensions architecture that worked fine

      It didn't work fine. Firefox 57 is faster without it. Have you tried Firefox nightly? Alternatively, wait for 57 to move to the beta channel and try it then.

    7. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

      FireBug was useful enough to be picked apart and integrated directly into the browser [...] though in a feature-reduced form

      What's an example of something FireBug could do that Firefox DevTools can't?

    8. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Rockoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There has never been a more obvious shill on this site.

      Thanks for breaking records.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    9. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I thought users were complaining that their 2015 era 8-core laptop was slower for web browsing than their 2-core 2009 workstation because using a fifth of the electricity meant lower single-threaded performance.

      So they rewrote their extensions API because the old API couldn't easily be multi-threaded nor easily ported to Servo.

      Progress...

    10. Re: Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

      He specifically mentioned a reason: Pentadactyl.

      They've known for two years that the new API was coming. Have they built a WebExtensions version or not? Tridactyl is at least giving it a go.

    11. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      The concern is not the API. It's that Mozilla no longer has the critical mass to encourage people to port old extensions to the new API, let alone make new ones.

      Lots of authors are just quitting.

    12. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On top of that, the new APIs will have only been out for a few months when the pull support for all "legacy" extensions.

      WebExtensions have been available for over a year. Everyone's had plenty of time to port extensions and request changes.

      remembered as the final blow to Firefox

      Doubt it. It's a new beginning.

    13. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

      Lots of authors are just quitting.

      So? It's a good opportunity for new authors. Find some extension you like and offer to take over as the maintainer. It'll look good on your resume.

    14. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Try Firefox 57. What's the matter? Afraid you'll like it?

      Considering it's continuing down the path of failure the mozilla has pumped out ever since it's australis UI redesign? Note how that for many people was the beginning of the end? Have they seen a resurgence of people switching to them? Nope. Have they listened to people or just talk over them because "they know so much better what they want it to be instead of you." See that user decline when they decided to start becoming a political lobby? Yep.

      There's a reason they've lost user marketshare hand over fist for the last decade. It's all their own doing.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    15. Re: Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      They can't rewrite because the functions no longer exist that said extension uses. Absolutely fucking useless.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    16. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by brickhouse98 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't even try reasoning with half the people on here. They bitch all day long about this and that (given to them for FREE) and don't want to do anything to help with it anyhow (even just by testing.) And given that the reason they are moving to WebExtensions is to adjust the underlying code base to be FASTER...you can't reason with these people. The equivalent of giving them a Bentley and they ask why it can't drive on water.

    17. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If WebExtensions APIs to support your pet add-on are missing, then get involved and add them. Mozilla wants you to.

      That's exactly the problem. Mozilla continues to head in the direction of a consumer shopping service and then they invite the tiny, tech-literate population to use extensions. Why doesn't Firefox have easily usable NoScript-type options? Why not block known 3rd-party trackers by default? Is it so radical to think people have a right not to be spied on? Instead they've hidden the script settings. They've hidden cookie settings, allowing 3rd-party cookies by default. They've hidden the status bar and encourage people to do all their browsing through a search engine.

      The list goes on. A case could be made that those changes are for convenience, but when options are actually removed (like javascript settings) that's coercion, not convenience. As someone else said, they became corrupted by the Google money. Matt Asay wants to know how it can be fixed? Simple: Always design with the idea that you're serving the customer. In this case, make it as easy as possible to protect privacy and security. Don't assume everyone wants to shop or go to Facebook. Don't treat people like idiots. Everyone knows how to get to Google or Yahoo. There's no need to let those companies take over the address bar. Just be honest. The beauty of a non-profit is that you don't have to be popular. Remember?

    18. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      I still use it. But I'm a nobody, and perfectly happy with that. At least I'm not a loser.

    19. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nope. It's literally going to be the beginning of the end for Firefox.

      Most of the hangers-on for Firefox fall into one of two categories:
      1) Technically adept users who want a customizable browser
      2) People who haven't upgraded their systems in years (and who probably had Firefox installed by someone in category #1 in the first place)

      Firefox itself has increasingly removed customizability and adopted a shittier Chrome look-and-feel, and the only thing that keeps the browser usable are extensions like Classic Theme Restorer, Status-4-Evar, etc. Those will not be compatible with the new extensions framework. Meaning that everyone gets a shittier Chrome, whether they want it or not.

      Firefox is officially dead as of 57, and everyone should migrate to Pale Moon or similar.

    20. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 2

      I'm willing to put $100 on Mozilla going bankrupt

      But only willing to post anonymously. Seems a bit, well, cowardly.

    21. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Dagger2 · · Score: 2

      Time, yes. But the problem isn't time. The problem is that it's outright impossible to do lots of things with WebExtensions, because they just plain don't get the access to Firefox that they need (and if you try to work with Mozilla to get that access, they refuse to work with you, and instead accuse you of refusing to work with them).

      No amount of time will help when the sandbox you're required to use just plain doesn't support what you need it to do.

    22. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      It's not. It's faster because of a months-long engineering effort to improve performance.

      Proof: Fx57 still has the existing architecture, and ships with multiple extensions that use it. It's just us rubes that aren't allowed to.

    23. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Doubt it. It's a new beginning.

      Err double doubt it. It's business as usual.

    24. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Since firefox have disregarded what was great about their browser, i.e. the extensions, they are effectively killing it.

      Disregarded them by providing a better frame work and a whole 2 year period for developers to port over? Let me help you: http://www.dictionary.com/brow...

    25. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by cupnoodleboy · · Score: 1

      Saying that Firefox is faster without extensions architecture, is like saying that a wifi access point can be made faster by reducing the number of users from 10 to 1. It is true that the wifi access point is made faster for the remaining 1 user, but for the other 9 previous users who are disallowed from using wifi, they would find that the wifi access point has become useless to them. Your statement exactly highlight the problem of Firefox. In the name of making Firefox better in a few aspects, it was made useless for a lot of people who have more different needs. Moreover, the extensions architecture used to work fine, it didn't work fine only after Mozilla has make a decision to not to support it.

    26. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      It is the API, at least for me and for many of the extensions I use that were written by other people. WebExtensions don't give the access necessary to write the type of extensions I write, so... I can't write them.

      It's not an issue of critical mass. I'd port them if it was possible (if only so I could upgrade off of this ancient version of Firefox), but it's not.

    27. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Because I'm afraid I'll lose unsubmitted form data when I accidentally press Ctrl+Q instead of Ctrl+W or Ctrl+Tab, and Firefox 57's extension architecture provides no way for extensions to override this.

    28. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by billyswong · · Score: 1

      Mozilla actively refuse to provide same or similar feature to key extensions like classic theme restorer, or session manager, or anything that makes Firefox truly uniquely more powerful and customizable than Chrome. And you call it "a better frame work"? I heard they won't even let extensions touch settings in about:config anymore!

      If you Firefox developers want to overhaul the UI again, go do it. It's not the first time and I was expecting classic theme restorer to save the mess when I don't like some part of their change. If you want to overhaul the underlying code and make some popular extensions break temporarily, go do it and I can wait my favourite extensions to pick up and update. But now, no more. There is no excuse to restrict Firefox extensions proactively like the current plan unless they are all drugged and trojaned by Google.

    29. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      I understand that Slashdot readers have mandatory groupthink policies, but new Firefox IS much faster due to its multiprocess and multithreaded architecture. Which is not possible with the old extension model.

    30. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Call me backwards, but I'm still using SeaMonkey. It has a few weaknesses, such as the handling of formatted text in the mail client, but by and large it still offers the traditional Mozilla GUI which I like better than current Firefox.
      I guess you could call that the ultimate Classic Theme Extension ;)

       

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    31. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      Forgive me for not giving a shit that it doesn't allow you to change some elements of the theme.

      Do you notice that, when you say a feature being deprecated is okay, you're actually agreeing with all the people saying they're abandoning Firefox due to it not having the features they want?

      Those people want a browser with complete theme customization. Can we agree Firefox isn't the browser for them anymore?

      By the way: I myself run Chrome, Firefox ESR 52.x, and Vivaldi (just testing it now). Once that ESR version stops being updated, the then new ESR will be basically equal to Chrome from an end user's perspective. I'm genuinely curious then: what distinctive features will Firefox have by that point, compared to Chrome, that would make using it worth the trouble?

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    32. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by caseih · · Score: 1

      Except that they did give me a Bentley and it could rive on water, so I started relying on rivers and lakes to get to work. Now all of a sudden they are taking the Bentley away and giving me a new Bentley that has no steering wheel and can't drive on water anymore. So yes I'm going to complain.

      Firefox lives and dies on ad revenue from users *using* firefox. So if they make it less useful, they'll lose users and lose money. So if they want to bring in money to continue their existence, they need to listen to the complaints of their users. It's that simple.

    33. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Which is not possible with the old extension model.

      This fact is refuted by dev builds. Thanks for playing the "lets attribute a casual relationship that doesn't exist" game.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    34. Re: Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Turns out, mozilla shills dont know what they are talking about.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    35. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      what distinctive features will Firefox have by that point, compared to Chrome, that would make using it worth the trouble?

      It will play fewer videos formats out of the box. According to some mozilla fan boys, this is a "feature" and it sure is distinctive.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    36. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

      It will play fewer videos formats out of the box.

      Such as?

    37. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      The new styling engine doesn't turn on unless there are no old-style extensions. The reason is the loss of XUL-based layouts.

    38. Re:Mozilla has spent almost 10 years... by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can. Just because the sandbox exists doesn't mean it has to be used for every extension. It should be used for the extensions which can be sandboxed, and the ones which can't should just run under your normal user permissions like all the rest of your software does.

  7. That makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft was punished because of the way it abused it's position and power in the market place. Linux is *chosen* by companies because of it's qualities (technical and otherwise), Linus doesn't go around twisting companies' arms.

    I really don't see who you would punish and how.

  8. Re: Mozilla is just part of the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Linux is open source. It's not owned by anyone. Therefore, it can't be a monopoly when anyone can just fork it and compete with it.

  9. Re:I remember early Netscape 1.x etc. by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    Now I keep a copy of Chrome around for sites that are broken in Firefox.

    What's an example of a site that works in Chrome but is broken in Firefox?

  10. Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by decaffeinated · · Score: 1

    When I tried it circa 2014, it was just too slow. I gave up and moved to Chrome (only on Android). Is the Mozilla team making progress on Android?

    1. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by decaffeinated · · Score: 1

      Okay...so I installed FF on Android and tried it (platform is a Note 4). Not nearly as sluggish as I remember it from the past. The scrolling of long, graphics-intensive web pages is still a problem. The simplest example is to load news.google.com in both Chrome and Firefox and scroll the content with your finger. Chrome is smooth as silk. FF is noticeably choppy...and slow. Still, if I didn't want Google snooping my browsing habits, I could live with FF.

    2. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by xvan · · Score: 1

      There is a 'Read Mode' that automagically identifies the main content of typical webpages (wordpress and wikipedia) and show's it alone.

    3. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      I've been using Firefox on Android for a long time and I am very happy with it. I use Firefox on the desktop too, so I get tab-syncing and all that, plus I get adblock and a couple of other nice addons (I haven't used Chrome, but I don't think it supports addons on Android) and so on. Also, personally, I don't find it "too slow" to use, especially with an adblocker.

    4. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by jouassou · · Score: 1

      Their new mobile browser Firefox Focus is actually quite good, and has replaced Chrome as my main mobile browser. It's much faster than their regular Firefox app, and is configured to block ads and trackers by default.

    5. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      show's

      Argh. Why.

    6. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      That's reader mode, which is indeed great. I was asking more about the use of an apostrophe to mean "watch out folks, there's an 's' coming up!".

    7. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      if I didn't want Google snooping my browsing habits, I could live with FF.

      I tried running FF on my Moto G 1st gen a few months ago. This is a very outdated phone by today's standards, but it's what I can afford here in Brazil. It has only 1 GB RAM, of which only about 220 MB available for user apps.

      End result: the fully up-to-date Chrome managed to run fine, with the keyboard managing to run at the same time, while Firefox crashed at almost any heavier page, and even if it didn't crash, almost always caused my keyboard to crash, making typing into forms a challenge.

      Needless to say, in a few days I uninstalled Firefox and went Chrome-only.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    8. Re:Anyone tried Firefox on Android recently? by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      Speak gor yourself.

      Heh. Even more than when I said "it's what ***I*** can afford"? :-D

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
  11. if they verified DNSsec... by johnjones · · Score: 4, Interesting

    why not aim for a secure browser audience...

    Ditch SSL Certificate authorities unless users trusted them and verify the DNS responses (DNSsec) present that information to the user

    1. Re:if they verified DNSsec... by pop+ebp · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how DNSSEC is the solution.
      You'll be going from trusting a bunch of different CAs, to trusting a single domain name registry for your security.
      Yes, the current CA system is bad, but having a single point of failure is even worse IMO.

    2. Re:if they verified DNSsec... by DES · · Score: 1

      DNSSEC alone is not enough. You want DANE for certificate validation.

    3. Re:if they verified DNSsec... by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      Yes, the current CA system is bad, but having a single point of failure is even worse IMO.

      There's a difference between trusting the best out of 400 and the sum of 400.

      Every single out of 400+ CAs can falsify a certificate. No matter if they're sloppy, broken into, operated by a bad government or susceptible to orders from a bad government -- all it takes is to get a single CA to cooperate against you.

      On the other hand, with DNSSEC+DANE, you're trusting only a single TLD operator and a single registry. You even get to pick the latter arbitrarily, and get to pick the former if you're fine with changing the TLD. Thus, assuming both certs were generated with the same security, DNSSEC+DANE is already strictly better than the CA cartel.

      But they're not -- if you can subvert DNS, most CAs will gladly grant you a certificate.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    4. Re:if they verified DNSsec... by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      Assuming we're talking DV certs here, then you're already trusting the domain name registry -- and without DNSSEC you have no way to even detect an MITM on it. Adding DNSSEC and then skipping CAs to get the identity info straight from the source would be a massive improvement.

      EV certs are a different beast, of course. With those, the CAs are providing a useful identity verification service that verifies your identity separately from DNS.

  12. Re:I remember early Netscape 1.x etc. by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    Why? What does it require that Firefox doesn't have?

  13. Save the web from what exactly? by phozz+bare · · Score: 1

    This whole argument looks like a lot of hand waving and FUD. The only rational argument I can see is that we need to Save the Web from the oh so horrible fate of being controlled by corporations whose "top incentive is to borrow our privacy just long enough to target an ad at us". Just what is wrong with targeted advertising? How would resurrecting Firefox prevent it in any way?

    1. Re:Save the web from what exactly? by phozz+bare · · Score: 1

      The word 'borrow' was in quotes. I was quoting the TechRepublic article, not citing my own opinion on privacy, which is irrelevant here. You too are waving your hands and not answering the question: in what way does Firefox protect my privacy any better than other web browsers?

  14. November 14 is when Mozilla dies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    With the release of extention killing Firefox 57, which also comes with a clippy clone and a doge meme logo and another new theme worse than australis.

    On November 14 there will be millions of browser refugees. Some will go back to 52 ESR or 56, others will experiment with forks of Firefox, but most will be sent to the clutches of Google and Microsoft.

    We can stop this, we need to stage a coup against Mozilla and fire the traitors responsible for web extentions.

    1. Re:November 14 is when Mozilla dies by theweatherelectric · · Score: 3, Funny

      we need to stage a coup against Mozilla

      Seems like a lot of effort.

      Wouldn't be simpler to make your own browser? You can show everyone how it should be done and, because your browser is so good, you'll quickly gain the majority of browser market share. You'll rake in hundreds of millions of dollars in search engine deals. All other browser makers will fear you. Also, chicks will dig you.

      So why not do that?

    2. Re:November 14 is when Mozilla dies by dbarclay10 · · Score: 1

      we need to stage a coup against Mozilla

      Seems like a lot of effort.

      Wouldn't be simpler to make your own browser? You can show everyone how it should be done and, because your browser is so good, you'll quickly gain the majority of browser market share. You'll rake in hundreds of millions of dollars in search engine deals. All other browser makers will fear you. Also, chicks will dig you.

      So why not do that?

      Hah, your sarcasm actually proves the OP's point: building and maintaining a browser is a fantastic amount of work, and the current stewards of the Mozilla codebase are not currently acting in the best interests of their users, the institution, the platform, or the community. They have a responsibility to do well by many people and they're failing miserably.

      --

      Barclay family motto:
      Aut agere aut mori.
      (Either action or death.)
  15. Sorry no by Crashmarik · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    As far as I am concerned Mozilla can die. The company wanted to be political when they ousted Brendan Eich. Well the last thing I need to see is free speech being "saved" by people who clearly don't give a shit about it. Having Mozilla liberate the web will be a lot like Tibet being liberated by China.

  16. Re:Mozilla is just part of the solution by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    This is such an incredibly stupid post that it can only have been put here as a seed for debate. For a start, Linux is not a company, nor is it a single person or group in any shape or form. It has no headquarters. The most that can be said is that it is a diffuse group who have co-operatively created something. You cannot take it to court "much like what was done against Microsoft". In any case there is nothing to take it to court for. Linux does not control or attempt to control what people do; it does not advertise and has no sales reps. It does not force anyone to install it. An analogy to "Linux" is "the world of sci-fi" or "astronomy". Try taking action against astronomy.

    Anway, this is off-topic, nothing to do with browsers. Sorry, I've fed the troll.

  17. I don't always log into slashdot by Victor+Tramp · · Score: 2

    but when i do, it's to say that articles like this are very right on.. I couldn't imagine using another browser besides firefox these days, and I feel a sense of dread when I have to use chrom(ium/e).. it's disheartening that I'm the weirdo.

    --
    US$0.02++
    1. Re:I don't always log into slashdot by Teun · · Score: 2

      You are so right.
      The type of comments we get are a nasty indication of how remote freedom is to many.
      Not using Chrome and Edge are steps to at least claim back some of that freedom, Firefox and it's parent Mozilla were always at the forefront of that fight.

      I've used Firefox so long that it's hotkey still is [Meta + N] and I see little problems with it, certainly nothing that warrants me trading in more of my privacy to Google Chrome.
      Not long ago someone here asked for a listing of the privacy advantages of using Chromium (if any), so far I have not seen anything substantial but do assume most of the spying has not been ported to the latter.

      For me Firefox works, it eats less memory than Chrome, has the extensions I want and I know developers (Tree style tabs) are working on porting to the new API or are ready (uBlock origin).
      Oh yes, since a few years Firefox is probably the best versatile browser on Android.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:I don't always log into slashdot by antdude · · Score: 1

      Ditto. I still use Mozilla's suite product, SeaMonkey, since I was always had been a fan of those since Netscape days. SeaMonkey hasn't changed its GUI frontend much like Firefox and others. It uses the older Firefox/Gecko versions. Its v2.48's user agent shows "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 SeaMonkey/2.48". Upcoming versions will be relying on ESR versions.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  18. Re:I remember early Netscape 1.x etc. by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

    Why are you asking an AC instead of the developer of Google Earth? Are you some kind of Mozilla shill or defender that can't deal with negativity?

  19. Re:Their plan to save the web: Redesign FF UI agai by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    The entire browser is going to be... Just one giant hamburger button that crashes the browser when you click it.

    No it won't crash the browser. It will get a a pack of hamburgers delivered to you together with a crate of cola. Don't worry about paying, it will debit you automatically. Then the hamburger button will be replaced by a theatre ticket button. And so on.

  20. Google & FB == new AOL & CompuServe by Qbertino · · Score: 2

    It's that simple. The open standards internet has been taken over by shiny services like a commercial Usenet with a web interface that Facebook is.

    We need an entirely new set of services and protocols with finished implementations of working and well designed applications that support them. Firefox used to be the best usable browser. Then chrome came along and had a great fast JavaScript engine, a new platform people could build client side logic on. In many ways Chrome is the new Flash, which makes it so attractive.

    We just had this issue a few weeks ago. The internet we all use needs a redo. Hard encryption and signing on the lowest app protocol layer and by default with no option out, independant namecoin DNS, asynch and offline capable base protocols and services, an interactive capable web replacement that does away with the HTML 5/CSS bloat of today and a useful optional binary app format including baked font rendering, 3D, audio and some other gadgets people want. All new email/Usenet/IRC would also build on top of said base protocols. Bye bye spam, bye bye NSA, bye bye Farcebook and WhatsCrap.

    Maybe Mozilla should put some effort into that. ... Just saying.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Google & FB == new AOL & CompuServe by tepples · · Score: 1

      Hard encryption and signing on the lowest app protocol layer and by default with no option out

      How do you recommend that the operator of an internal server on a private home LAN obtain a certificate for said signing?

      baked font rendering

      Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean by "baked font rendering", but how well will that work for people who use text-to-speech or a braille display to read documents?

    2. Re:Google & FB == new AOL & CompuServe by ShoulderOfOrion · · Score: 1

      I'm still waiting for the IPv4 to IPv6 transition.

  21. Re:Their plan to save the web: Redesign FF UI agai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of this gem from the Windows Insider forum:
    Discussion: Use photos of hamburgers for the hamburger buttons

    Edit: Captcha is 'hungry'

  22. Or Brave and Opera etc by Karmashock · · Score: 1

    There are many other options. Never touched Chrome... Google has been too big for a long time and I didn't want to feed it.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  23. Mozilla's CoC is driving contributors away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mozilla's Code of Conduct is driving contributors away.

    They should cherish their contributors who are voluntary spending their time trying to help.
    Instead when you use a word like "guys", you get blocked. I'm just stupified by the bullying behavior of Mozilla's employees: https://mzl.la/2gu5521

    1. Re:Mozilla's CoC is driving contributors away by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      Holy shit, is that thread even real? That has got to be made-up or something. Please tell me people aren't actually like that.

    2. Re:Mozilla's CoC is driving contributors away by Mr.+Shotgun · · Score: 3, Informative

      Instead when you use a word like "guys", you get blocked. I'm just stupified by the bullying behavior of Mozilla's employees: https://mzl.la/2gu5521

      Lol, that thread is freaking great. A contributor asked about the status on a two year old feature request and makes the mistake of using "guys" when referring to a collective group and get three responses about his use of "gendered language" and his responses marked as abusive and off-topic. And the icing on the cake is that guys is considered non-gendered by both Mirriam-Webster and Oxforddictionaries. As for the feature request itself, still in an unknown status. Honestly if that is how they react to every perceived slight, I can see why Firefox is struggling.

      --
      Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
    3. Re:Mozilla's CoC is driving contributors away by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      You should read some of the absolute bullshit going on with Rust. Mozilla is infested with socjus, just like google is, just like node.js is. Here's a few examples from node.js and no2 and a bit of backfiller.

      Cancer, cancer everywhere, and it's killing FOSS.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re: Mozilla's CoC is driving contributors away by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      I live in rural South Carolina. Children displaying such behavior patterns are promptly corrected and disciplined. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Clemson University... those kids need a good beating.

  24. Re:PaleMoon is what Firefox should be by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    no search function for the PDF viewer, can't adjust the line width for Reader View

    Firefox's PDF viewer does have a search function and you can adjust the line width in Firefox's Reader View. Maybe you're thinking of some other browser.

  25. Internet for firefox developers, not users... by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

    In regards to applauding Rust; I point to n-gate.com

  26. Have you ever read Firefox's privacy policy?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Anybody who claims that Firefox protects their privacy probably hasn't actually looked at Firefox's privacy policy.

    Below are some excerpts from the Firefox privacy policy that is dated July 31, 2017.

    Be sure to notice the type of information being collected and possibly even transmitted to third parties (including Google, some "Leanplum" company, a "mobile analytics vendor", and "certain developers"). We see terms like:

    • - "IP address"
    • - "browser version"
    • - "operating system"
    • - "locale"
    • - "language preference"
    • - "list of add-ons you have installed"
    • - "phone number"
    • - "email address"
    • - "URLs associated with the downloaded file"
    • - "hardware configuration"
    • - "commonly visited domains"
    • - "location"
    • - "the active URL"
    • - "Google advertising ID"
    • - "personal information"
    • - "key word searches"
    • - "Wi-Fi networks"
    • - "cell phone towers"

    Here are the excerpts:

    Once per day, Firefox sends the following info to Mozilla when it checks for browser updates: your Firefox version information, language preference, operating system, and version.

    Firefox contacts Mozilla once per day to check for add-on information to check for malicious add-ons. This includes, for example: browser version, OS and version, locale, total number of requests, time of last request, time of day, IP address, and the list of add-ons you have installed.

    About once per day, Firefox connects to Mozilla and provides you with new snippets, if available. Mozilla may collect how often snippets are clicked, snippet name, browser locale, and which version of Firefox you're using.

    Firefox sends Mozilla a monthly request to look up your location at a country level using your IP address.

    Some Mozilla sponsored snippets are interactive and allow you to optionally share your phone number or email address.

    This data includes, for example: device hardware, operating system, Firefox version, add-ons (count and type), timing of browser events, rendering, session restores, length of session, interaction with search access points and use of Firefox search partner codes, how old a profile is, basic information about errors and crashes, and count of pages.

    Firefox sends to this third-party information identifying the site's certificate.

    About twice per hour, Firefox downloads Google's SafeBrowsing lists to help block access to sites and downloads that are malicious or forged (Google's privacy policy is at https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/).

    Firefox may send metadata, including URLs associated with the downloaded file, to the SafeBrowsing service.

    Usage statistics or "Telemetry" is a feature in Firefox that sends Mozilla usage, performance, and responsiveness statistics about user interface features, memory, and hardware configuration. Your IP address is also collected as a part of a standard web log.

    Firefox sends to Mozilla data relating to the tiles such as number of clicks, impressions, your IP address, locale information, and tile specific data (e.g., position and size of grid).

    In Firefox Beta, certain short-term Telemetry experiments (see above) for Tiles may collect information about commonly visited domains.

    Firefox sends Mozilla a request once to look up your location at a country level using your IP address.

    Firefox may send the terms you type in the Awesome Bar or Search Bar to your

    1. Re:Have you ever read Firefox's privacy policy?! by rlk · · Score: 1

      "Firefox search partner codes"

      "mobile marketing vendor"

      "marketing campaigns"

      Gaah. This ain't your father's Mozilla. And I really don't want "personalized recommendations" (read: customized ads). I want to do my own searching, with search terms I pick (which usually have nothing to do with buying anything).

      I use Firefox because I have it very heavily customized with a lot of addons (some of which I've modified myself). I suppose I'm going to have to stay on the last working version of FF forever and hope things don't get too bad, or hope that someone picks up and forks it, preserving legacy extensions.

      Trying to make Firefox more compatible with Chrome is just plain absurd. If it's going to be compatible to the point of excluding the reason why people use Firefox to begin with, what's the point of even using Firefox? People use Firefox because of the XUL and other legacy extensions that do things that other browsers don't. Period.

      (And let's not even get into "we won't let you turn off signature validation, so all your extensions are belong to us. Well, not quite, but close enough. Although they did actually leave a workaround in place.)

    2. Re: Have you ever read Firefox's privacy policy?! by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      What did anyone expect? Whispers on the net say Brendan Eich was targeted for witch-hunting and removal not because of his widely-shared beliefs about marriage, but because he refused to play ball on user surveillance.

      Take it for what it's worth - YMMV.

    3. Re: Have you ever read Firefox's privacy policy?! by corychristison · · Score: 1

      Still better than chrome. *shrugs*

  27. Re:It's my everyday default by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    That's strange. I just installed Here maps (again), and it asked for location service to be turned on. When I denied it, it closed. That's still bad. Maybe one day they'll get it right.

    I use Google maps. It does ask, but it still works if I tell it "NO".

  28. Re:Bookmarks and Mobile sites by jouassou · · Score: 1

    now if I can find a way to share bookmarks that will operate in the office I'll switch completely.

    Google isn't the only one offering this. Perhaps your office permits using Firefox sync or Opera sync?

  29. Browser share by NadNad · · Score: 1

    The intro says Firefox is little more than a rounding error of use, but August 2017 stats have it at 12% (only slightly behind IE) on desktop.

  30. Re:PaleMoon is what Firefox should be by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    My credit union works great in pale moon. And so does eBay, which wasn't working correctly for me in Firefox. I literally copied over my profile, and I'm running all the same extensions, so that's clearly not the problem. I am using noscript and ublock origin, and I'm not allowing google-analytics, and that alone breaks a shitload of sites. If they are important to something I'm doing, I then load them in Chrome.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  31. Re:I remember early Netscape 1.x etc. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

    I've been using FF exclusively for years and have never experienced any problem with any site, so I'm a little curious also. I have to say that I did like pdf rendering in chrome better.

  32. * In America by Gabest · · Score: 1

    I don't think they included that 1 billion Chinese from main land and a few 100 million restricted user from other pockets of the world in the survey.

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. At least someone that thinks like me :-) by Herve5 · · Score: 1

    I'm worried that there be so many spit before I found you. Most of the previous comments I read are just petty indeed :-D
    That's a concern about what /. audience is becoming :-(

    H.
    (using FF on linux, pc and mac for everything
    -quietly forgetting iCab, the first ad-blocking browser 10y before FF was born, because indeed FF is easier to set -and, well, I'm migrating everything on linux now)

    --
    Herve S.
  35. Re:I remember early Netscape 1.x etc. by tepples · · Score: 1

    Because the console (Ctrl+Shift+K in Firefox) is likely to contain script left error messages or console.log messages from the developer of Google Earth.

  36. Emoji uploading in Discord works in Cr not Fx by tepples · · Score: 1

    Emoji uploading in the chat site Discordapp.com works in Chrome and Chromium but not Firefox.

    1. Log into your Discord account.
    2. Switch to a "server" (Discord's name for a collection of channels that share the same user list) that you own or on which you have been assigned a role with the Manage Emoji permission.
    3. Right-click the server's icon and choose Server Settings > Emoji.
    4. Click Upload Emoji.

    Chrome result: File chooser appears.
    Firefox result: Button does nothing, and nothing appears in Console.

    Emoji uploading used to work in Firefox before May 23, 2017, when the server settings user interface changed to its current form. Others report this happening even with a fresh profile.

  37. Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, next? by tepples · · Score: 1

    The impression that I get is "We just rewrote our extension in Jetpack months ago. If you require us to now rewrite our Jetpack extension in WebExtensions, we quit."

    From Keybinder README:

    SORRY GUYS, BUT I'M AFRAID THIS IS THE END OF THE LINE.

    I wanted to release a last update to address a couple bugs, and mkz's locale but I'm afraid this will be the last update to Keybinder. Mozilla's self-destruct course wth Firefox (coupled with not even having adopted all WebExtensions APIs yet) makes this addon impossible to maintain (and sadly, soon to cease working at all). Already many commands will not work (especially new ones) as XUL is being deprecated, and XUL keysets was the foundation this add-on relied on. I'm probably going to move to Vivaldi or something, I guess. Way to go, Mozilla.

  38. Ctrl+Q will speed up your browser by tepples · · Score: 1

    Firefox works faster because when I accidentally press Ctrl+Q instead of Ctrl+Tab or Ctrl+W, it ends up using zero CPU because it quits, taking unsubmitted form data with it. I had used the Keybinder extension, but that will not be ported to WebExtensions. I would use the Disable Ctrl-Q and Cmd-Q extension, but bug 1325692 makes the Disable Ctrl-Q and Cmd-Q extension do nothing on either of my machines (Xubuntu 16.04 at work, Debian 9 at home).

  39. Ecosystem by happyfeet2000 · · Score: 1

    They need to create a whole alternative ecosystem, that is their own search, their own "facebook", "youtube", mobile OS, etc., with higher ethical standards, and slowly grow it. Get momentum step by step, never losing hope. It might catch up eventually when the masses realize what the alternative is doing and find there is a wholly developed alternative patiently waiting.

  40. I have a rant somewhere in the 0 comments. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In it I remind people of the history of Firefox.

    The original firefox was gtk(2?) only, without xul or extensions.

    All that stuff only became successful because phoenix (firefox's origiinal name before the Phoenix bios company sued them, then never actually came out with a web browser...) had already become successful amongst nerds as a fast, lean, low resource browser containing only the gecko renderer and a VERY minimal gtk2 interface. The early versions didn't even really have preferences pages. Most of that crap got added *BACK* into firefox sometime after 1.0 I believe it was. Maybe the 1.5 release. XUL and crap came later and tacked on extensions and other stuff that had really been from the mozilla browser suite, and only worked because they had finally 5+ years later improved their javascript engine enough to not be a memory and cpu wasting pile of shit. Firefox wasn't even originally a mozilla project until I think the 0.6 release, and after the developer of it joined mozilla he got bumped from his leadership position on Firefox then eventually reassigned to a different department. I am not sure if he's still there or quit.

    All of this should be verifiable via either web.archive.org, the google ftp site's old firefox/phoenix releases, and internet history various places.

    Point being: Mozilla has been fucked up for more than a decade before they ever became relevant and people thinking this 'change in attitude' is something new, really haven't been paying attention to how the foundation has been managed, and how netscape corp was acting BEFORE the foundation, the AOL purchase, etc. The incompetence is systemic and even predated the creation of the foundation.

    Some of the SJW stuff might be new, but this is how Mozilla has always acted. And if people hadn't thrown money at them, Yahoo, Google, AOL, and previously the VCs during the original dotcom bubble, they would have never gotten this ridiculously elevated opinion of themselves and would have successfully mismanaged themselves into the ground two decades prior to now.

  41. Re:Their plan to save the web: Redesign FF UI agai by antdude · · Score: 1

    You must be working for Mozilla's team. :P

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  42. Why privacy by tepples · · Score: 1

    Have you ever looked at a product on Amazon, Target, or another online store, only to have banner ads for that product stalk you to other, unrelated websites? This is called "retargeting", and it's creepy, and it's powered by cross-site tracking.

    Would you want an ad network or ad exchange to sell your browsing history, including websites about sensitive medical conditions, to your health insurer so that the insurer can raise your premiums based on the websites that you have visited?

    Have you ever had an ISP that cuts you off or charges you extra if you exceed your agreed monthly allowance of Internet data transfer volume? Video ads on textual articles use a disproportionate data volume per page view.

    1. Re:Why privacy by phozz+bare · · Score: 1

      Sure, "retargeting" and unwanted video ads have happened to me. As a Firefox user. I don't really care about the former and there are blocker plugins for the latter. As for selling my browsing history to my health insurer, that sounds like a something for law enforcement to handle, not my browser. In any case, you're still just waving your hands really hard and not answering my question.

    2. Re:Why privacy by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Sure, "retargeting" and unwanted video ads have happened to me. As a Firefox user. [... ] there are blocker plugins for the latter.

      Yeah, and they all work like shit. They still download the videos, they just don't show them, ever since the web switched mostly to HTML5 video instead of Flash. I hated flash, but boy was it easy to block.

      Even my trusty HTML5 don't autoplay plugin only works half the time. Or else I use plugins like noscript and it takes a dozen clicks and a dozen reloads of the page to figure out which sites are mandatory to show the actual website. Then again, just about every site uses googleapis now, and when you enable that, now all your web-pages are cross-site tracking you again.

    3. Re:Why privacy by phozz+bare · · Score: 1

      Is there a difference between Firefox and other browsers in this respect? Can I block unwanted content under FF which I wouldn't be able to block under Chrome?

    4. Re:Why privacy by tepples · · Score: 1

      Can I block unwanted content under FF which I wouldn't be able to block under Chrome?

      The difference between the two is that unlike Chrome users, Firefox users don't have to install third-party extensions to block the common case of unwanted content, which is unwanted content that relies on third-party tracking. As described on the page "Security/Tracking protection", Firefox users need only visit about:config and set privacy.trackingprotection.enabled to true. My best guess as to why this isn't enabled by default is that anti-adblock scripts on popular sites misdetect tracking protection as ad blocking because they aren't set up to fall back to serving self-hosted ads when the ad network fails.

    5. Re:Why privacy by tepples · · Score: 1

      Sure, "retargeting" and unwanted video ads have happened to me. As a Firefox user. I don't really care about the former

      May I cite your comment as an example of somebody who doesn't mind advertisers stalking him or her around the web?

      As for selling my browsing history to my health insurer, that sounds like a something for law enforcement to handle, not my browser.

      Good luck getting law enforcement to even give a care.

    6. Re:Why privacy by phozz+bare · · Score: 1

      So you concede that in a default installation there is no difference in this respect between the two browsers, and that what separates the Savior of the Web from the Great Evil is that one would require a third party extension to change something that the other allows changing via a menu that 99% of users don't even know exists? I'm not impressed.

    7. Re:Why privacy by phozz+bare · · Score: 1

      You seem to have missed the most important part of my comment: these things happened to me as a Firefox user. That is, using Firefox did not protect me from retargeted ads, and clearly it would not prevent anyone from selling my browsing history to the highest bidder.
      You've made it clear that you dislike retargeted advertising. You've also made it clear that you believe Firefox is better at protecting one's privacy online than Brand X Browser. You have raised compelling arguments regarding neither of these points.

    8. Re:Why privacy by tepples · · Score: 1

      So you concede that in a default installation there is no difference in this respect between the two browsers

      There is no difference in default behavior between the two browsers. However, there is a difference in the behavior that the user can select without needing to download and install an additional extension. Firefox offers tracking protection as a preference; Chrome requires a trip to the Chrome Web Store.

      and that what separates the Savior of the Web from the Great Evil is that one would require a third party extension to change something that the other allows changing via a menu that 99% of users don't even know exists?

      Correct. Someone with permission to change preferences but not permission to access Chrome Web Store can still activate Firefox tracking protection after looking up how to do so through a search on DuckDuckGo or Bing.

    9. Re:Why privacy by tepples · · Score: 1

      For a Firefox user who can access a search engine but cannot access addons.mozilla.org for whatever reason, turning on tracking protection blocks communication with ad servers and other servers that track users. For a Chrome user who can access a search engine but cannot access Chrome Web Store for whatever reason, how would you go about doing the same?

      The difference is plausible deniability. If a feature is built into the web browser, it's a bit harder for an ad network operator to draft a demand letter to cause it to be taken down than if it were in an extension.

    10. Re:Why privacy by tepples · · Score: 1

      Someone with permission to change preferences but not permission to access Chrome Web Store can still activate Firefox tracking protection

      Correction in case someone plays the pedant card: "Someone with permission to change preferences but not permission to install extensions from addons.mozilla.org or Chrome Web Store can still activate Firefox tracking protection"

  43. Re:My proposal... by tepples · · Score: 1

    The person should openly persue their respective country's govt to ask Google,Apple,Microsoft to stop restrictive trave practices (like Google making it mandatory for vendors to install g-apps on thier phones).

    It's never been mandatory to install Google Play Store or other Google apps on a device running Android Open Source Project (AOSP). Amazon's Kindle Fire tablet and Fire Phone run Fire OS, an operating system based on AOSP without Google Play Store or other Google apps.

  44. Chrome isn't winning because it's better by ctrlshift · · Score: 2

    Chrome is winning because Google aggressively pushes its use on all its web services and sites. It's also auto-installed as bundleware in tons of downloaded software and utilities. It also benefits from so many people not understanding what a browser is and how it's different from a website, i.e.people install it because they think they need it to use Google.com. It may be a faster browser, but the vast majority of clients I work with do not notice a difference, they just use it because it was offered and they didn't know how to say no or didn't realize they had a choice. Rather like Windows 10, actually...

  45. I stop using FireFox when they dropped ALSA by lano1106 · · Score: 1

    It was a stupid dev decision possibly motivated by politics. Every Linux desktop have ALSA installed. Not every Linux desktop have PulseAudio. It seems to me that if reducing maintenance overhead was the real reason to drop an Audio API, they would have dropped PulseAudio. Not the other way around. When you don't listen to your userbase to find out what is important for them, you might not have a bright future ahead of you. Last FireFox version that I have used is 53. I have no intention to return back without ALSA support!

  46. Re:Freedom of speech a la Mozilla... by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

    > If they want to change their ways, they can start by apologizing
    > to Brendan Eich, the father of Javascript, whom they ousted.

    Brendan Eich should apologize for inventing Javascript.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  47. hand-squeezed jungle pathos by epine · · Score: 1

    1b) Technically adept users who want the freedom of a customizable browser

    What actually killed Firefox is that so many people moved to Chrome for mere performance. Then, as FF lost critical mass, the security model around their previous extension model became too onerous to maintain. Shrinking the security perimeter involved moving to an extension API which doesn't allow the programmer to do very much.

    I bet it's the mainly the same damn pond of fools who one day post "Firefox performance sucks ass" and the next day post something infused with hand-squeezed law-of-the-jungle pathos concerning network effects/other economies of scale.

    Well, yeah. And where was all that brilliance yesterday when you switched to Chromium to shave off 50 ms here or there at the ultimate price of freedom?

    So, yes, Firefox memory management sucks (it has since forever now), and that tends to drive performance into the ground, but I won't stop using Firefox as my primary browser until the very cliff face is crumbling out from under my toes.

  48. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by theweatherelectric · · Score: 2

    We just rewrote our extension in Jetpack months ago.

    Jetpack 1.0 was released over 6 years ago. I don't have much sympathy for people who only rewrote to Jetpack a few months ago.

    If you require us to now rewrite our Jetpack extension in WebExtensions, we quit.

    Firefox's move to WebExtensions was announced over two years ago and you could start using WebExtensions over a year ago. The rate of change has hardly been rapid.

    I'm probably going to move to Vivaldi or something, I guess.

    Sure. That sounds rational.

  49. Maybe Mozilla should broad their scope by juanrh · · Score: 1

    Maybe the point is not saving the web anymore, but ensuring that applications built on top of the Internet (like the web or the email protocol) are free and open. For years, the web used to be the only part of the internet visible to the final user, at least for the most part. Even email was often accessed through a web interface. Now Facebook and other social networks are new systems that run on top of the Internet, and even have a web interface too, but are fundamentally different from the web. Contrary to the web, these systems have a single central authority, and are not designed for enabling a free interchange of information between peers, because all the social interactions are moderated by the central authority. This is even more concerning because the business model of all those top 10 apps is based on exploiting the user data, so privacy in unavoidably under a threat. And these systems are not primarily accessed from a web browser, but from native apps. So does the battle for the browser even make sense anymore? Instead, maybe Mozilla should expand the scope from just the web to other Internet applications (arguably Thunderbird is already an example of that). The usage data in that article shows that the web is not necessary the most relevant application that runs on top of Internet anymore, as it is just a fraction of the Internet traffic. A possible course of action could be working on ensuring all these new applications have open standards. If we already have working alternatives to gmail, like protonmail, is because email is an open standards technology with a publicly documented protocol. We don't have such clear alternatives to Facebook for the mainstream Internet user, because Facebook is mostly a closed system. The highest threat to privacy between those 10 apps are social networks IMHO. In that field Mozilla could work developing open standards, and use that to connect GNU social compatible networks (maybe OStatus is already the most suitable standard) like Mastodon, with mainstream networks like Facebook. Mozilla could also work on the analogous of a web browser for that field, which is a high quality native app for any social media that supports that open protocol, and also on connecting Facebook and mainstream social networks to that protocol through their public APIs. That would be similar to using Thunderbird for accessing your gmail or yahoo mail account, a kind of hootsuite but based on open standards, and bridging different social networks. A combined timeline for different social networks, and that allows to simultaneously publish in all of them from a single place. That could help transitioning out from the current single authority model for social networks. That would be the social networking analogous of sending an email to a gmail account from my protonmail account, optionally encrypting the email. Besides social networks, these 10 apps included streaming media players, messaging, email, and maps. For streaming media, something like K.im (https://betanews.com/2017/08/31/k-im-bitcache-piracy/amp/) could be a suitable path, with Mozilla playing the role of ensuring open standardization and high quality open source implementations. TL;DR: Maybe Mozilla should broad their scope beyond the web, and work to ensure open standards and high quality native apps for the new systems built on top of the Internet, but beyond the web, like social networks or streaming media services.

  50. Save what? by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

    I'm baffled by this. Save Mozilla == Save the Internet?

    How did this happen? Mozilla is dying cuz it's got nothing over anyone else.

    Where is the path that Mozilla going the way of the floppy that leads to endangered internet?

    IE is free, Edge is free, Chrome is free, Pale Moon is free, Opera is free... and there's a lot more I'm sure.

    On a personal note, I am a little disappointed by Mozilla. Not because of Firefox, its a fine enough browser, but killing further development of Thunderbird, now that's a crime.

    On another personal note, Facebook and Google aren't the internet. They're just big players. One is just plain evil and the other, well, I haven't decided yet. Google is awfully useful, and still gives it all away for free. However, Google has an established history of taking things away, with no recourse. That makes me wary.

  51. Re:I remember early Netscape 1.x etc. by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    Ugh. God, the transition from Netscape Navigator 3 to Netscape Communicator 4.. what a disaster. Netscape never recovered from that.

  52. Re:I hope Trump puts you in a camp by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    Two Scoops
    Two Genders
    Two Terms

    Trump 2020!

    I hope to God that that will be his actual reelection slogan.

  53. A Brave new world by xtronics · · Score: 1

    I'm testing out the brave browser right now - I like what I see...

  54. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by tepples · · Score: 1

    I don't have much sympathy for people who only rewrote to Jetpack a few months ago.

    In many cases of a legacy pre-Jetpack codebase, there wasn't a business case to make a port that would be perceived as "chasing the latest fad" until multiprocess.

    you could start using WebExtensions over a year ago

    Many popular Firefox extensions could not exist if WebExtensions-over-a-year-ago were all that were available. A lot of APIs exposed by XPCOM and Jetpack have no equivalent in WebExtensions-over-a-year-ago. Some have no equivalent in WebExtensions even as of Firefox 56, such as those used by the Keybinder extension to override Ctrl+Q and other built-in shortcuts.

  55. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    if WebExtensions-over-a-year-ago were all that were available.

    WebExtensions-over-a-year-ago weren't all that was available. The point is that there has been plenty of time for add-ons to properly plan and execute the transition. Software projects are either well managed or they aren't. This particular add-on seems to have been poorly managed.

  56. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by tepples · · Score: 1

    there has been plenty of time for add-ons to properly plan and execute the transition.

    I don't see how time helps if the API on which a particular add-on relies has no counterpart in WebExtensions.

  57. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    I don't see how time helps

    Mozilla has invited add-on developers to get involved from the beginning, two years ago. That's exactly what NoScript's developer did, two years ago. There's been plenty of time for add-on authors to get involved with developing and extending the APIs their particular add-ons need.

  58. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by tepples · · Score: 1

    Mozilla has invited add-on developers to get involved from the beginning, two years ago. That's exactly what NoScript's developer did, two years ago.

    And many of the APIs requested, two years ago, are not in the shipping version of Firefox, two years later. The article "NoScript’s Migration to WebExtensions APIs" by Caitlin Neiman states: "Some of the APIs required for full parity with the legacy version won’t land until Firefox 57." This means no feature-complete version of NoScript will work on both Firefox 52 ESR and Firefox 56 on the one hand and Firefox 57 and later on the other hand. This effectively forks NoScript into two extensions with disjoint codebases, and disjoint codebases mean disjoint bugs.

    Perhaps I can express to you the practical effect on end users' perception of usability through an example: Please type your reply to me, press Ctrl+Q, and attempt to restore your reply.

  59. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    The article "NoScript’s Migration to WebExtensions APIs" by Caitlin Neiman

    This is the web. Link to things.

    This means no feature-complete version of NoScript will work on both Firefox 52 ESR and Firefox 56 on the one hand and Firefox 57 and later on the other hand.

    Yeah? And? So? What? The old version dies, the new version prospers. It's time to move on. Firefox 57 is the future. Embrace it.

    Please type your reply to me, press Ctrl+Q, and attempt to restore your reply.

    I pressed Ctrl+Q and nothing happened. The effect doesn't appear to be practical.

  60. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by tepples · · Score: 1

    This is the web. People insert links with an excessively commercial nature into comment sections. Some comment sections on sites other than Slashdot reject comments containing a URL as a measure against spam. Some end users adapt to the different behavior of multiple sites' comment sections by sticking to the common subset of behaviors considered acceptable by all comment sections that the user frequently uses. In addition, the on-screen keyboard that comes with a mobile phone or tablet computer running a mobile phone operating system makes it a code to enter HTML tags, with the necessary punctuation (less than sign, greater than sign, quotation marks, equal sign) spread across multiple pages of keys. Furthermore, links break as web sites reorganize. So in many cases, end users end up using author and title as enough of a citation that any competent web search engine can retrieve the intended link.

    Some organizations have valid reasons for running the extended support release of a web browser. In the past, before Firefox provided an ESR, these organizations "embraced" the lack of an ESR by sticking to IE. Firefox 57 will not be ESR upon release.

    On what operating system did you try the Ctrl+Q test? The misbehavior is noticeable on Linux, perhaps less so on Windows and on macOS (where the shortcut in question is Command-Q rather than Ctrl+Q).

  61. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

    This is the web. People insert links with an excessively commercial nature into comment sections.

    So what you're saying is that you can't be trusted. Very well. I won't trust you.

  62. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by tepples · · Score: 1

    So what you're saying is that you can't be trusted.

    I'm saying that people on the web who can be trusted share the same web with people on the web who cannot.

  63. Re:Last year Jetpack, this year WebExtensions, nex by tepples · · Score: 1

    Please see https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2017/08/01/noscripts-migration-to-webextensions-apis/. There are two separate codebases. Many projects are managed only well enough to raise the funds to maintain one codebase but not two.