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How Proprietary Software Lets Companies Cheat (locusmag.com)

"Proprietary software makes it possible to design products to cheat ordinary users..." writes Richard Stallman -- linking to a new essay by Cory Doctorow: Carriers adapted custom versions of Android to lock customers to their networks with shovelware apps that couldn't be removed from the home-screen and app store lock-in that forced customers to buy apps through their phone company. What began with printers and spread to phones is coming to everything: this kind of technology has proliferated to smart thermostats (no apps that let you turn your AC cooler when the power company dials it up a couple degrees), tractors (no buying your parts from third-party companies), cars (no taking your GM to an independent mechanic), and many categories besides.

All these forms of cheating treat the owner of the device as an enemy of the company that made or sold it, to be thwarted, tricked, or forced into conducting their affairs in the best interest of the company's shareholders. To do this, they run programs and processes that attempt to hide themselves and their nature from their owners, and proxies for their owners (like reviewers and researchers). Increasingly, cheating devices behave differently depending on who is looking at them. When they believe themselves to be under close scrutiny, their behavior reverts to a more respectable, less egregious standard. This is a shocking and ghastly turn of affairs, one that takes us back to the dark ages.

228 comments

  1. Shovelware sucks by Snotnose · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At least on PCs I could figure out what was crap, and delete it. With my phone, I know what's crap but I can't delete it. Worse, that crap lives in internal memory, which is usually too small and too expensive compared to an easily installed SDCC card (why is a 64G SDCC card cheaper than a 16G internal storage upgrade?).

    I've love to see a class action suit filed that would force Facebook, Groupon, Snapchat, and dozens of other apps I'll never use explain why they are taking up precious and expensive space in my phone.

    Hopefully once that hurdle is cleared it will create a precedence for the other abuses.

    1. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've love to see a class action suit filed that would force Facebook, Groupon, Snapchat, and dozens of other apps I'll never use explain why they are taking up precious and expensive space in my phone.

      Because they're part of the product you bought, there are plenty of alternatives, buy one of those instead. You can certainly wipe the phone and install a fresh version of Android, you're likely to have removed some critical proprietary software pieces that make the hardware work though.

    2. Re:Shovelware sucks by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      make the MFGers of phones allow users to remove offending apps, i have a samsung S6 and i disabled microsoft office and facebook and a few other factory installed apps, but i can not remove them from the device

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    3. Re:Shovelware sucks by mikael · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not just Android. Even with PC's and Windows, many pieces of hardware now require a "cloud account". These included security web cameras with internet connection. In order to use the PC and Android application, you need a cloud account. Even to control the camera from a Smartphone. These days virtual machine applications require internet access to "keep up to date".

      I bought a telephone handset for my mobile ... and of course it requires cloud services because it needs voice recognition in order to activate smartphone applications. It's getting ridiculous.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    4. Re:Shovelware sucks by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The phone manufacturer or carrier got paid to include those apps on your phone. So in a way you're benefiting from it via a lower phone price, though it can be hard to tell with how quickly they depreciate.

      To get rid of it, you gotta root the phone. To get rid of the Google apps (which are linked to the Google Play Store), you have to root the phone and install a vanilla version of Android compiled straight from Google's open source, and don't install the Google Apps bundle. As you probably guessed though, this means you give up access to the Google Play Store and any apps which you may have purchased through it.

      My suggestion would be to make a law where the manufacturer or reseller (carrier) must provide warranty service for as long as software not essential to the device's operation remains on it. So if they want to get paid to put Facebook on the phone and make it impossible to delete forever, then they need to provide warranty service for the phone forever. Basically if they want to behave as if they still partially own the phone, then they need to continue to provide warranty service for it.

    5. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cool! Good thing I found you because you make it sound real easy. I got a certain zmax where they can't get the bootloader unlocked! Let me know how I get it unlocked so I can take your wonderful advice.

    6. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a phone and tablet that i bought that came with a few apps i dont want, were not listed on the products box and i cant uninstall.

      please outline how they came with the productd i bought (a phone) and how i can get rid of them.

      One is for "Trip advisor".. and i certainly dont want this, will never use it and would love to have you explain how i can get rid of it given the boot loader is also locked.

    7. Re:Shovelware sucks by Snotnose · · Score: 2

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      And, by your own admission, if I replace the OS I could lose something important, like the ability to make phone calls.

      You, sir, are a fucking asshole and can kindly fuck the fuck off.

    8. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this bs argument might have worked before carriers like at&t make you pay full price in installment payments for your phone. and for the record they make you pay more than the manufacturers website does.

    9. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed

      Any of the OnePlus phones?

    10. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have yet to see a Moto e/g phone with Facebook permanently installed. Although there are probably quite a few reasons not to buy a Lenovo product given their reputation for installing hidden spyware in their products.

    11. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you can't.
      The thing is that they might "deactive" the software but it will be always be in there and if you turn off and then turn on your phone they will be reactivated, in order to remove them you have to root the phone and that is something most people can't do.
      Also, I highly doubt tha Facebook, Groupon, Snapchat, CandyCrush, UNO or even GMail or Youtube are system critical apps.

    12. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      theres hundreds! any oneplus phone for example or any phone that you can install say cyanogen on.

      >And, by your own admission, if I replace the OS I could lose something important, like the ability to make phone calls.

      no i said you could wipe the phone and if you do that then yes so you are going to need *some* proprietary software, at least in the form of drivers, to keep it functional. certainly there are many replacement operating systems available that perhaps you should educate yourself on: replicant, lineage, remix.

      >You, sir, are a fucking asshole and can kindly fuck the fuck off.

      so shut up and continue being the bitch of proprietary software peddlers then. the world is far too overpopulated with naysaying, knuckle-under types like you. i want i want i want i want...oh but i dont want to have to do anything and i want everything to work without me having to put any effort in.

    13. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SD cards tend to be slower than internal memory. It explains some of the cost, but not all of it - internal memory can be bigger, offsetting some of the cost

    14. Re:Shovelware sucks by 0123456 · · Score: 1, Troll

      "Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it."

      iPhone.

      This crap is pretty much exclusive to Android. It's another reason I dumped my Android phone last year.

    15. Re: Shovelware sucks by Thundercat007 · · Score: 0

      Lower phone price? Get a grip. New latest Flag ship phones run$1000. Or you could buy a no name Amazon phone with similar specs for $80. Even if your no name Amazon phone dies once a year, still cheaper and better off than A Samsung

    16. Re:Shovelware sucks by chuckugly · · Score: 1

      My ZTE Axon phone doesn't have Facebook installed. I didn't delete it so I assume it was not shipped with it.

    17. Re:Shovelware sucks by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Informative

      Uhhh My Alcatel Flint didn't come with FB so I didn't have to uninstall it, not that it would have been a problem because you can root an Alcatel phone in under 4 minutes using only the software provided by Alcatel, no third party malware like Kingoroot required.

      So no reason to get locked into the Apple iGarden, not when you can spend 5 minutes Googling to find a phone with the features you want that allows users to easily root.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:Shovelware sucks by sjames · · Score: 1

      you're likely to have removed some critical proprietary software pieces that make the hardware work though.

      In other words, you really can't practically wipe the phone and install a fresh version. You can only get rid of the shovelware in the sense that you can just toss the phone in a tree chipper.

    19. Re:Shovelware sucks by thomst · · Score: 1

      Snotnose challenged:

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      Well, there's the Nexus 6, for instance. Mine - which I bought new - didn't come with Facebook pre-installed. And it still doesn't have it, because Mark Zuckerberg's data-stalking machine can fuck ALL the way off, as far as I'm concerned.

      (Note that I do use FB on my desktop machine - but I use NoScript's ABE to disable facebook.com and facebook.net scripts from running anywhere else but FB itself. Nor do I permit 3rd-party cookies. And I use Better Privacy to dispose of data BLOBs. I never permit my browser to disclose my location. Oh, and I also employ VPNUnlimited's browser extension to close off the data leakage that data miners would use to fingerprint me, if I let them.)

      But, you were saying ... ?

      --
      Check out my novel.
    20. Re:Shovelware sucks by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I've love to see a class action suit filed that would force Facebook, Groupon, Snapchat, and dozens of other apps I'll never use explain why they are taking up precious and expensive space in my phone.

      If they advertise X amount of storage but can't deliver X because hard-to-remove crapware is eating it up, they are essentially lying. Sue'em!

      I suspect most telecom deals merely promise a certain model with their service. However, it's still misleading because you get that model minus resources taken up by crapware. I agree that clear disclosure of unnecessary resource subtraction should be given.

    21. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sucks to be you.
      Never questioned why that phone was so much cheaper. Now you know.

      But if you're lucky, you can still at least just go in and disable the apps which can't be removed, and you can still install the ones you want. You can probably even sideload.

    22. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "... they're part of the product you bought, there are plenty of alternatives, buy one of those instead"

      You bought a cheap and cheerful, bargain-basement Android handset. Part of the purchase price of that handset was subsidised by your telco locking stuff down and by third parties by having their apps pre-installed and unable to be deleted.
      Next time, if you don't want this crap, go and buy an unlocked handset that doesn't have the carrier's shovelware preinstalled, but be prepared to pay more for it.

    23. Re:Shovelware sucks by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      OK, now you just have to find me an iPhone without iOS.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    24. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Nexus 5x doesn't have it.

    25. Re:Shovelware sucks by TheLongshot · · Score: 1

      My LG G4 doesn't have a Facebook app. Nor much shovelware as far as I can tell.

    26. Re:Shovelware sucks by Bert64 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Many security cameras require a cloud account for a valid reason... Because of NAT, how else are you going to view your cameras from outside of your home network?
      The average slashdot reader may be capable of setting up a VPN, but most people aren't, and having cheaply designed devices accessible on internet-routable ips is dangerous too if you dont know what you're doing.

      The devices i saw at least made the cloud account optional, you could still access them standalone over a VPN... I've configured such a VPN but also disabled all outbound connectivity from the devices for good measure.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    27. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same is true with my Oneplus here. I can root without using third party software.

    28. Re:Shovelware sucks by war4peace · · Score: 1

      My Samsung A5 (2016) did not have Facebook preinstalled... until a Samsung OS "Security Update" came a year ago and said "Facebook application has been installed" - without me being able or allowed to deny that.
      Now Facebook is auto-updating by itself, separately from the normal Google App Store updates. I fucking hate that.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    29. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      Any Xiaomi phone?
      I can't remember if it had it on it and I just deleted it or if I've never had it. Either way it isn't there now.

    30. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I can't delete Facebook so I will take a Phone where I can't do many other things, like copying music without using iTunes, or install any app I want from anywhere at all."
      Awesome logic indeed.

    31. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Android gurus are just like Linux ones. If you have a complaint they will explain to you how it's almost certainly your fault.

    32. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      I'm pretty sure the iPhone does not.

    33. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that anyone answering any specific question has to first take into account all your other potential questions? Awesome logic indeed.

    34. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now the question becomes what phone doesn't have it installed *and* won't force it upon me in the future. The answer to that is of course there aren't any. Sounds like a walled minefield.

    35. Re:Shovelware sucks by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      It is not preinstalled, but functionalities linked to Facebook are provided. I haven't had the Facebook application installed since the days the split Messenger to a separate application. I simply use a browser now with their mobile site. I should really dump Facebook altogether...

      Nevertheless, so to "Settings" and start scrolling down... At a certain point you will find a cluster of settings for social media logins, and it includes Facebook. Only my iPhone, it's actually Twitter (I have the application), Facebook (I don't have the application), Flicker (I don't have the application) and Vimeo (I don't think I even have an account). Granted, this is to access services to post -for example- pictures directly from the Photos application, but still: it is there... It's non-functional, unless you actually enter your credentials, but it is there... built into the iPhone, with no way of removing it.

      It absolutely is a lesser annoyance than just having it preinstalled and unremovable on Android... I agree with that.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    36. Re:Shovelware sucks by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it. And, by your own admission, if I replace the OS I could lose something important, like the ability to make phone calls. You, sir, are a fucking asshole and can kindly fuck the fuck off.

      My phone came with its app installed but let me delete it. But I have a windows phone so undeletable apps are the least of my problems.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    37. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must make this a buying decision - there may or may not be hope for some phone you already bought.

      If you want to remove facebook or whatever they shovelled in - follow the forums that discuss phone mods & alternative/custom ROMs. There, you find advice on how to wipe various phones - and also information on what phones nobody knows how to deal with.

      Let that shape your buying decision. Only ever buy a phone where you know the ROM can be changed. So that you may, for example, run stock Android instead of some carrier's variant. Enjoy your freedom!

      A few manufacturers are nice, many are not. For some, there are working hacks that allows wiping unwanted stuff. In some cases you can get what you want simply by buying the phone from Europe where there is less carrier lockdown.

    38. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Many security cameras require a cloud account for a valid reason... Because of NAT, how else are you going to view your cameras from outside of your home network?

      No need. I have NAT, but I have one public ip address. Whatever I want to expose on the net, is exposed on that address via port forwarding.

    39. Re:Shovelware sucks by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The last couple of versions of Android let you disable the baked-in apps to a greater or lesser degree. They still waste some space, but once disabled and their functionality replaced they don't do much harm, and you get a cheaper phone.

      Having said that, I prefer to buy phones without bloatware these days, rather than get one on contract. And in the UK, even phones on contract can be vanilla unlocked models if you just avoid going to the network directly.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    40. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HP Z workstations comes with data collection software "diagnostic data collection." It has the Intel ME engine and secure key all set up. They update the BIOS while you are actually using the computer and then tell you you must reboot the computer. You have to wipe the computer and then go find the drivers you need without reactivating all the spyware. They have "cloud base data collection to stop you from using unauthorised software." they have so much spying going on that it makes the workstation run like a 486 computer.

    41. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it..

      iPhone
      Nexus/Pixel

      Nokia 3310

    42. Re:Shovelware sucks by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Windows 10 won't let you remove a lot of its shitty built-in apps normally, some even not with CLI.

    43. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This crap is pretty much exclusive to Android."

      So how do I delete the references to Facebook, twitter, flickr, and Vimeo from the settings menu on my iPhone? I'm not trolling, I have my first iPhone and would really like to know.

    44. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad in Canada, at least where I live, buying an unlocked phone is a difficult and shady affair. Then you better hope it happens to broadcast on one of the few frequencies your provider does.

    45. Re:Shovelware sucks by PmanAce · · Score: 1

      My Telus GS4 didn't have facebook pre-installed. I installed it later and recently uninstalled it.

      --
      Tired of my customary (Score:1)
    46. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing the Canadian government outlawed locked phones earlier this year. Your next phone should not have the same problem.

      https://www.canada.ca/en/radio-television-telecommunications/news/2017/06/crtc_puts_an_endtolockedcellphonesandunlockingfees.html

    47. Re:Shovelware sucks by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      You can certainly wipe the phone and install a fresh version of Android, you're likely to have removed some critical proprietary software pieces that make the hardware work though.

      I've been doing this for years and have never run into this problem. But then, when I'm shopping for a new phone, the first thing I do is check to make sure that others have been able to replace the OS without trouble. If not, then I don't buy that phone.

    48. Re:Shovelware sucks by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many security cameras require a cloud account for a valid reason...

      That's not a valid reason. It would be a valid reason to provide the option, but not to make it mandatory.

      Personally, I simply refuse to buy anything that requires an account anywhere in order to function.

    49. Re:Shovelware sucks by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      So in a way you're benefiting from it via a lower phone price.

      This is utter BS.

    50. Re:Shovelware sucks by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      It's never been preinstalled on any phone I've had in the past 10 years: iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, Moto X, Moto G, Asus Zenfone 2, Moto Z Play. The first three were sold carrier-locked to AT&T; the last three were sold unlocked.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    51. Re: Shovelware sucks by VirginMary · · Score: 1

      with similar specs

      Hahahahahahahahahahahahah

      Hahahahahahahahahahahahah

      --
      When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
    52. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To get rid of it, you gotta root the phone.

      Which is the reason most phones now feature locked bootloaders ... so you can't root them.

    53. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your Googlefoo must be stronger than mine. Can you help me find a device with more than 64GB storage (or SD card support), and a screen larger than 5.5 inches that runs Android 7 or later (required for proper VPN support) and is rootable? Thanks.

    54. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, buying a phone that's subsidized by Facebook is your fault. That's part of why the bootloader is locked, the garbage apps require it as part of their dealings for paying.

      Who's fault do you think it should be? Facebook? Your carrier? Google? The phone manufacturer? None of those companies made you buy your shitty phone, and the only way they are ever going to stop doing these things is if people like you go out of your way to buy the phones that don't do these things

    55. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's awesome I never knew that. I just got stuck buying a moto e4 from my carrier store. I was planning to get an asus phone but all the places that carry them were sold out indefinitely with no ability to order more in. It was only after I learned that if the system folder is mounted in read/write mode the phone won't boot any more. Whether the bootloader is unlocked or not, which was actually easy to do. So no root for now I suppose. It seems like the problem is being worked on but it's unreliable and involves wiping everything from the system folder with a chance of being shit outta luck and having a bricked phone still.

    56. Re:Shovelware sucks by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      Time for you to look at the Motorola offerings.

      Unlocked, generic Android phones.

    57. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No factory unlocked phone I've ever purchased has come with software I can't remove. Lg even let's you remove the lg stuff. The only apps in not allowed to remove are ones which break the phone when they're gone, like the cellular service, but I'm allowed to unlock the phone's boot loader by the company, so I can break my own phone if I want to and they'll give me the tools to do so upon request

    58. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not Samsung at fault its your phone carrier. They make proprietary bullshit os versions that add this crap. The factory unlocked Samsung will come with Facebook, etc., sure, but you can remove it completely.

      I have enough people come into my computer repair shop every single day asking me how to install apps on their phones that I am glad phone companies bundle Facebook, since people want it and dont know how app stores work

    59. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Would you have purchased the camera if it cost $30 more to cover all the support costs, development costs for a more modular software, extra memory to support the added functionality, etc?

      If so, why didn't you just buy a more expensive camera that does what you want? You can't but the cheapest shit and then get mad that it's lacking features, that's unreasonable

    60. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My LG G4 didnt have facebook app.

      Actually it didnt have much crap apps actually, although I got it from my telco (M1 in Singapore).

    61. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's fault do you think it should be? Facebook? Your carrier? Google? The phone manufacturer?

      Salesman/saleswoman? :p

    62. Re: Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This crap is pretty much exclusive to Android."

      So how do I delete the references to Facebook, twitter, flickr, and Vimeo from the settings menu on my iPhone? I'm not trolling, I have my first iPhone and would really like to know.

      Then don't enter any information to it. It will not link your phone to any of those. Also, don't download any apps for them either. A fresh iPhone should come without any of those apps installed even though it has an option to add infos.

    63. Re:Shovelware sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average slashdot reader may be capable of setting up a VPN, but most people aren't

      Problem #1: Setting up a security camera without giving a crap about security.

      Problem #2: Not realizing the first problem and demanding that a random company "fix" that for you....

      having cheaply designed devices accessible by some random sysadmin at risk of being laid off by $COMPANY is dangerous too if you dont know what you're doing.

      Emphasis mine. But, given that you wanted crap to "just work", I guess you shouldn't complain when the new sysadmin is some random person in China, Russia, India, etc....

      The devices i saw at least made the cloud account optional, you could still access them standalone over a VPN... I've configured such a VPN but also disabled all outbound connectivity from the devices for good measure.

      The one I bought practically begged for a cloud account, but it's still accessible via VLC and RTSP. Sadly, the feed doesn't require authentication prior to access via RTSP, so you have to take that into consideration too. Worse, that means those that did set up a NAT rule just opened it to the world without realizing it. You should probably should do an nmap on these things when you buy them, but once again it must "just work", so that will never happen. Fun how wanting greater security is so easily thwarted, isn't it?

    64. Re:Shovelware sucks by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Tell me a phone that doesn't have Facebook pre-installed, and you can't delete it.

      Most modern Android phones? Even if the app is in the firmware it can be disabled. Meaning all local data is removed, the app cannot run, and it won't show on your launcher.

      if I replace the OS I could lose something important, like the ability to make phone calls.

      So let me get this straight. You want the manufacturer to guarantee their hardware will work if you flash arbitrary software on it? And you want them to support arbitrary 3rd party OS installs? Sounds reasonable.

    65. Re: Shovelware sucks by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Yes, I would. Although, in practice, there is no such surcharge.

      If so, why didn't you just buy a more expensive camera that does what you want? You can't but the cheapest shit and then get mad that it's lacking features, that's unreasonable

      I think you may be confusing me with someone else. I haven't bought any cameras that require cloud connectivity.

    66. Re:Shovelware sucks by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      nVidia has started this crap as well. Last time I wanted to upgrade my gfx card drivers it insisted on having an account.

    67. Re:Shovelware sucks by zvar · · Score: 1

      While true, my LG G5 from Sprint came pre-installed with Amazon Photo. I can disable it yes, but there is a cron job (or whatever Android's equivalent is) running and erroring out every couple hours with an error stating Amazon Photo has stopped and I now have to interact with my phone to do anything.

      So it's either deal with the error every few hours, or install Amazon photo....

  2. Yep, he's right. by johnnys · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think Richard Stallman must feel like Cassandra these days. All the bad tidings he's been warning about for years are coming true.

    --
    Sometimes the "writing on the wall" is blood spatter...
    1. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Is there really no phone you can buy to avoid this? Just because somebody sells something doesn't mean you have to buy it, there are plenty of smartphones out there that you can wipe the entire OS and install a replacement like Replicant or Lineage. These essays always make it sound like the world is ending just because there is a company out there selling something that you don't like.

      Also what specifically are these "shovelware apps" that "lock customers to their networks"? I certainly have seen some pre-installed apps but I haven't seen any that lock customers to the networks of the companies that peddle them.

    2. Re:Yep, he's right. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      99% of the people who buy phones are not technically savvy enough to even understand that there is a problem, never mind find the phones that solve it, so there really is (almost) no phone that you can buy, when the collective you refers to the masses and not a small subset that frequents Slashdot.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    3. Re:Yep, he's right. by johnnys · · Score: 5, Informative

      He's not just focussing on phones: He's talking about all kinds of new tech that is Internet-enabled or surreptitiously recording your private information and not fully controlled by the consumers.

      He's talking about thermostats provided by your power utility that are controlled remotely by that utility to reduce your power consumption when they feel like it.

      He's talking about vendors who are locking the owners into expensive service contracts or buying parts and supplies at forced inflated prices, using CFAA and DMCA to keep users from doing their own mainternance.

      All of these problems occur because of the way that consumers and citizens are prevented from having full control over the devices we purchase: With the business-slanted contracts and laws that prevent us from knowing what the software is doing and what our devices are surreptitiously reporting back to businesses and governments.

      Richard Stallman has been warning about these problems for many years.

      --
      Sometimes the "writing on the wall" is blood spatter...
    4. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can remove most apps from iPhone and you can lock down the telemetry pretty much as well.

    5. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      flip (aka 'feature') phones:

      ** 2-3 week battery life. not 6-18 hours.
      ** $30-50 handset cost, not $300-1000+
      ** no extra monthly data charges
      ** no battery draining, privacy-invading apps
      ** smaller, sturdier form factor

    6. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      99% of the people who buy phones are not technically savvy enough to even understand that there is a problem, never mind find the phones that solve it

      So the first question is defining the problem: what specifically are these "shovelware apps" that "lock customers to their networks"?

      The second question is how can you go about avoiding that problem. You say 99% of people don't even understand that there is a problem, maybe there actually isn't a significant problem at all. Certainly if carriers shipped devices with apps that you were forced to use that you then had to put your data in and could not extract it out when you wanted to switch to another device then that could be a problem, but is that (or something like that) actually happening? For example I know many Android systems come with dropbox preinstalled, but you're not locked in to it, not only do you not have to use it but even if you did choose to use it you can copy your data from it to any other system at any time.

    7. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      He's not just focussing on phones: He's talking about all kinds of new tech that is Internet-enabled or surreptitiously recording your private information and not fully controlled by the consumers.

      Yes and each thing is a different case, there isn't one solution that solves all problems. Which is why I was asking about that one case.

      He's talking about thermostats provided by your power utility that are controlled remotely by that utility to reduce your power consumption when they feel like it.

      And you can use a different thermostat, even an open source smart one or even build one. The same goes for the router your ISP gives you, you very often get much better performance with a different one.

      All of these problems occur because of the way that consumers and citizens are prevented from having full control over the devices we purchase

      And can be solved by exercising your right to choose what you buy.

      With the business-slanted contracts and laws that prevent us from knowing what the software is doing and what our devices are surreptitiously reporting back to businesses and governments.

      There's no law preventing distribution and supply of FOSS devices, indeed we've seen that in many industries. Look at OpenWRT routers for example.

      The solutions are already there, instead of complaining that the world is burning maybe focus on proliferation of the existing solutions.

    8. Re: Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No web browsing. No useful applications. I don't want 1990s tech just to get working hardware.

    9. Re:Yep, he's right. by amorsen · · Score: 1

      You can install Lineage, but then you can't pay with your phone, and certain games assume you cheat.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    10. Re:Yep, he's right. by Octorian · · Score: 1

      Is there really no phone you can buy to avoid this?

      Are your willing to have software developers/vendors laugh in your face when you actually want their software to run (or run without issues) on your phone? If the answer is yes, then I'm sure you can find options. If the answer is no, then you're SOL.

      Unfortunately, so much we do on mobile these days is absolutely dependent on proprietary applications and protocols, which means that you can't really have a full experience without depending on those outside the F/OSS community.

    11. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 2

      Are your willing to have software developers/vendors laugh in your face when you actually want their software to run (or run without issues) on your phone?

      What specifically? Is there really so much critical software that won't run on say LineageOS?

      Unfortunately, so much we do on mobile these days is absolutely dependent on proprietary applications and protocols, which means that you can't really have a full experience without depending on those outside the F/OSS community.

      So the answer is to pour effort into developing those missing pieces rather than whine that the status quo isn't what you want.

    12. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could buy a proper phone, like an iPhone.

    13. Re:Yep, he's right. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      I assure you that when you have little internal storage and can't get rid of dropbox, Uber, and other apps, it is a problem. You may not be forced to use them, but you are forced to let them eat up your valuable available storage. This problem is real, and I have had to deal with it. Since even you didn't understand the problem, I think I've made my point, and thanks for helping drive that point home :-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    14. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I assure you that when you have little internal storage and can't get rid of dropbox, Uber, and other apps, it is a problem. You may not be forced to use them, but you are forced to let them eat up your valuable available storage. This problem is real, and I have had to deal with it.

      So the whole "problem" here has been mischaracterised and it's just a simple matter of needing more storage space. Looks like there's lots of solutions or buy a phone that is supported by LineageOS.

    15. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are far too stupid to understand the problem apparently.

    16. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ". Look at OpenWRT routers for example."

      And look at how increasingly larger percentages of new routers do not allow you to load any other firmware.

      Stop burying your head in the sand.

    17. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 0

      Problem: I assure you that when you have little internal storage and can't get rid of dropbox, Uber, and other apps, it is a problem.

      You're really too daft to see any possible solution to that problem? Really?

    18. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then dont buy one of those you fucking nitwit. You mouthbreathers just deserve what you get when throw money at these companies for abusing you when a perfectly acceptable alternative solution already exists. You can install openwrt or dd-wrt or one of the many others on a linux pc if you wanted! It is mind boggling that you complain about a problem then go up and present your ass to these corporations and beg to pay them for the privilege of sodomizing you. Theres no cure for stupidity at your level im afraid.

      The solution already exists and your response is "oooh but there are other shiny routers i can buy instead"

    19. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except they aren't coming true in the way he said they would. He blames proprietry/closed source, yet open source is being pushed down peoples throats with the exact same lockins and customisations on devices. Reality is where theres money involved people will do what is in their best interests regardless of eco system.

    20. Re:Yep, he's right. by exomondo · · Score: 2

      And look at how increasingly larger percentages of new routers do not allow you to load any other firmware.

      But there are plenty that do and in the absence of those you can even build your own using a PC thanks to FOSS.

    21. Re:Yep, he's right. by jbn-o · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please do cite examples to back up your claims. Stallman doesn't talk about "closed source" because that's a reference to open source, a group founded on rejecting the ethics-based free software movement he founded over a decade before open source began. In fact, Stallman has been known to point out why open source misses the point of free software and open source is a right-wing reactionary counter to free software probably because open source proponents are ready to drop their development methodology if a sufficiently robust and powerful proprietary program comes along. That choice reveals a scam akin to "greenwashing" among polluters who want to look more environmentally-conscious than their behavior would deserve. Virtually every story on /. can be described as yet another story that wouldn't have adversely affected users if the users had software freedom (the freedom to run, inspect, share, and modify published computer software).

      Despite your clear misunderstanding of what Stallman argues for, why, or what the relevant issues at hand are, it should be interesting to you defend "open source is being pushed down peoples throats with the exact same lockins and customisations on devices".

    22. Re:Yep, he's right. by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      ** no GPS navigation
      ** no web browsing
      ** no camera worth a damn
      ** no texting (I don't do 10-key texting)
      ** no wifi calling
      ** no visual voicemail
      ** no storing an entire music library and using it as an ipod
      ** no genuinely useful apps like my hiking GPS app or calculator app

      ** good at actual phone calls, but this is one of the *least common* things I still do on a phone!

    23. Re:Yep, he's right. by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      No headphone jack means it's useless for listening to music.

      Extremely high price means I could buy a whole bunch of Android phones for the same price as one iPhone.

    24. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At Costco today I saw a Neutrogena "light therapy" mask that places an array of LED's around your face and turns them on for 10 minutes, twice a day, for 30 days. Then it quits working. Right on the box: "Purchase a new Activator when the 30 treatment sessions run out."

      Run out? How does a grid of LED's cease functioning after a month? Only because it is programmed to do so. It should last a lifetime and more, if not for the evil, immoral, greedy, rent-seeking behavior of the manufacturer.

    25. Re:Yep, he's right. by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      One thing to do would be to require phone capacities be advertised based on the space that's actually available for user storage. Ie what's left after the OS and any mandatory crapware has been installed. That would allow users to easily identify that there is a downside to the bundled crapware and hence the reason for the lower price.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    26. Re: Yep, he's right. by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 2

      > He's not just focussing on phones
      > He's talking about thermostats
      > He's talking about vendors

      Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturer of dairy products.

    27. Re:Yep, he's right. by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your argument is AKA the hermit in the cave. You forget that in industry after industry, product after product, less and less acceptable alternatives exist. The solution is rapidly going the way of the dodo and you stand there fiddling.

    28. Re:Yep, he's right. by zennyboy · · Score: 1

      They recently (a few months ago) changed it so they were still classed as a Secure OS, and Root was no longer installed as default - you had to dl and install a separate Zip and install post Lineage install.

    29. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe I'm getting old, but these debates are really really old on /.
      More and more people are moving to Linux, first in server-space, but lately, many also switching on desktop (since 5-10 years).

      Games works (Steam).
      Streaming works (Netflix on Chrome/Firefox).
      LibreOffice works (for simple stuff), but is at least better than using someone else's machine ("cloud")-
      SSH/VNC-tunnel works instead of RDP.
      Flash is deprecated, but still possible to use.

      However, the general consensus is that it's still too hard for the masses, and yes, it takes more effort and some clue, but you can make it all work on Linux.
      The rest will use whatever works, and nothing will change their minds until they are assimilated into the Borg.

    30. Re: Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you've gone and made me want to watch that movie again.

    31. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except my solution continues to work so why would I change something that already works so well? Seriously why would I want to replace it? Even if it suffered a hardware failure why would I buy a router that offers me no freedom when I could just install open source router firmware on any PC and be right back in business? Unlike you I am not brainwashed by the marketing to idiots of the latest shiny gadget.

      The solution is not going anywhere but you have just been brainwashed into thinking it is and that makes you part of the problem and now you go around parroting the nonsense that marketers have fed you. You will empty your wallet at the first sign of a new shiny toy despite the fact that it offers you nothing over what you already have simply because marketing has infected you into thinking you need it.

    32. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you need a camera and a laptop to go with your phone.

    33. Re:Yep, he's right. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      If you're actually serious, then you're a fucking idiot to think I want to haul around a camera and a laptop everywhere I go, and that I'm somehow going to get a laptop to actually work as a GPS navigator in my car.

    34. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's talking about thermostats provided by your power utility that are controlled remotely by that utility to reduce your power consumption when they feel like it.

      We get offers for these where I live too, and the literature is pretty clear about how it works, and this is over the top fear-mongering. All they do is cycle your AC in step with all the other thermostats in their network, to ensure that not every single AC unit is turned on at exactly the same time. The only people this would actually have a negative effect for would be those with under-sized or poorly installed AC systems.

      The overall result is reduced load on the grid, more reliable power, and cheaper power depending on where you live (up here we sometimes import extra power from neighbouring grids which is expensive). You do realize that power companies make money off of you when you use power, and they are therefore making less money if they reduce your consumption?

    35. Re:Yep, he's right. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      The solution is rapidly going the way of the dodo and you stand there fiddling.

      The reason this is happening is because people are buying them anyway. Encouraging people to buy reasonable products instead is one way of remaining free.

      Also, reasonable alternatives will always exist -- that market will always have companies servicing it. The only question is how expensive they are.

    36. Re:Yep, he's right. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      certain games assume you cheat.

      It seems like every time alternatives to abusive products are brought up, someone say "but.. but.. games!"

      Of all the corrosive effects games companies are having in the tech world, this attitude has to be one of the most obnoxious and insidious. Most of the other issues can be avoided by not playing games from abusive companies.

      This one, however, is actually decreasing the chances of shaking off this horrible trend for everybody, not just gamers.

      Fuck games.

    37. Re:Yep, he's right. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, so much we do on mobile these days is absolutely dependent on proprietary applications and protocols, which means that you can't really have a full experience without depending on those outside the F/OSS community.

      Like what, outside of some games?

    38. Re:Yep, he's right. by Squiddie · · Score: 2

      Using GNU/Linux and running proprietary software on top is almost as bad as just running MS Windows or OSX. The point is user freedom, and saying that "the average man/woman does x, therefore x is fine" is missing the point. You are running out of technical solutions to systematic problems. The day will come when Stallman's awful fiction story "The Right to Read" will come true, and you'll have to remember that we told you so.

    39. Re:Yep, he's right. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a great source for below market cost LEDs. Are they better than 1 watt whites?

      Sure stupid people are stupid. Do you have a deeper point or a possible solution? Just want to ban all 'snake oil'?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    40. Re: Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the problem that you're a cheapskate, and you expect $75 phones to have the equivalent functionality of a $500 phone? Or that you keep buying phones with so little internal storage that you panic about 250mb being used?

      Oh, is the problem that you aren't capable of seeing your own fault in this "issue" and that of you had made a different purchase you wouldn't be storage limited?

      Am I getting close? https://youtu.be/8YHmUXUU2MU

    41. Re: Yep, he's right. by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 1

      Woohoo, somebody got the reference.

    42. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, if the average person does x (assuming it is legally acceptable), then x is fine. That is exactly what the masses should be determining. It doesn't mean that y is wrong. But proponents of y are arguing that x is wrong.

    43. Re:Yep, he's right. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Really? There is not one single new car on the market now that doesn't have a propriety computer control system. Do you have a tutorial on plugging a PC into your car engine and installing this fantastical OS to control your car?

      I'm sure there are a bajillion farmers who would LOVE to get a hold of your technique so that they can repair their farm equipment. I suppose your recommendation would be to go back to horse and buggy, where the farmer slowly gets destroyed in the marketplace because he can't compete, can't make enough money to survive, and loses his land?

      Seriously, put down the strawman dolls you're playing with, look outside your window for a moment, and see what's actually happening in the real world. Just cause you can slap together a custom router with some PC hardware you have lying around, doesn't mean everyone else is a brainwashed idiot.

    44. Re:Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're talking about routers in this conversation, *routers*. Not cars, not farm equipment, routers. Obviously there is no silver bullet solution for everything so dont pretend you genuinely think I implied that there was. I certainly see *why* halfwits such as yourself buy the latest shiny just because it is for sale when you cant manage to keep focus on a conversation for a dozen lines of text.

      It's the fucking mental defectives like yourself that say "oh well i might as well just buy this new user-subjugating router because while I *could* just buy one that supports openwrt that wont fix my tractor". Clearly you just *want* to be subjugated and *want* to have no choice. This *is* a perfectly acceptable and workable solution *for routers* (which is what we are talking about) and despite your pea-brain attention span I was not implying that this is a solution for anything else.

    45. Re: Yep, he's right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that standalone gps exists, yeah?

      I mean, don't get me wrong, all that stuff would be bullshit, but you can buy a chrome book, a better camera, a gps, and a flip phone for less than most flagship phones

    46. Re: Yep, he's right. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Standalone GPS, to my knowledge, doesn't get traffic updates and route you around traffic jams. How would it, unless it has its own cellular modem, which you'd have to spend extra money on for data service? Standalone GPS also doesn't help me find businesses. Quick: I want to see all the Italian restaurants near me and pick one to go to. A Garmin isn't going to be much help here. Maybe it'll have some large businesses pre-programmed, like the GPS in my car (which also doesn't have traffic updates), and while that's fine if I just want to find the nearest Walmart or whatever, for anything more obscure, or anything newer than the last update, it won't help me. Heck, even if I know the name of where I want to go, if I don't know the street address offhand (and who does?), it's going to be a pain to navigate to it with a standalone unit.

      Yes, you can be a bunch of devices for the price of a flagship phone, but:
      1) you can't seriously think it's a viable option to haul all that crap around with you everywhere you go (except perhaps the GPS, you can leave that in the car).
      2) the Chromebook won't work on the internet, unless it has a cellular modem, which means you need another data plan ($$), unless you can somehow get the flip-phone to tether (not likely, since flip-phones don't usually have data anyway)
      3) why are you comparing to a flagship phone? Most fully-featured Android phones are not "flagship" phones, and are much cheaper. Honestly, these days, it really doesn't make sense to spend $600-900 on a flagship phone. You don't *need* a handheld screen with 4K resolution; 1080p is more than enough. And even the cameras on these phones are still very good (though of course not as good as a dedicated camera). The features that used to come on flagship phones only 3 years ago are now standard in $100-150 phones. They've gotten pretty close to disposable now (relatively speaking of course).

    47. Re:Yep, he's right. by sjames · · Score: 1

      You seem to have a minor god complex going on there, thinking you're somehow better or smarter than others. Naturally, I would choose from one of the dwindling free and open options first. It's just that unlike your dumb ass, others here see that that list is dwindling and would like to take action before it's gone. I'm really not the sort of person who goes for the new shiny.

    48. Re:Yep, he's right. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Sure, I would love for consumers in general to suddenly gain 20 IQ points and solve the problem, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

      At some point, the free open and expensive option gets to be so expensive that you can't afford it. At that point, it might as well not exist.

  3. "one that takes us back to the dark ages" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL what? So the plague and public hangings and horse shit in the streets?
    Seriously, anyone who has read Doctorow's latest novel Walkaway knows he's nothing but a left-wing activist.

    1. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Shit will continue to happen as long as you keep categorizing stuff into "left-wing vs right-wing" boxes.

      Forget politics, look at what's happening and think for yourself, not for some political group that DOES NOT have your best interests at heart.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by GumphMaster · · Score: 1
      No dark ages phenomena in the list:

      plague

      Check. http://www.npr.org/sections/go...

      public hangings

      Check. Hangings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Executions more broadly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      horse shit in the streets

      http://www.historic-uk.com/His...

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    3. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When a person declares themselves an activist it is they who keep categorizing stuff through their words and actions. As a matter of fact the hardcore are proud to be identified as hardcore activists out to change the world.

      The problem with Stallman and all his hyperbole filled comments and written words is he makes his living while telling others what they can and cannot do when t comes to earning a living in the software industry. He has always argued for everything to be open sourced which puts hard limits on a developers rights to make the open source - closed source determination based upon earning a decent living.

    4. Re: "one that takes us back to the dark ages" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the dark ages of, burn you heaven scum burn for looking at the sky.

    5. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's like calling you an ignorant piece of shit just because you posted something stupid on Slashdot.

    6. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I loved "Walkaway".
      Fascinating book about a future with unlimited free energy and bots to make anything you need for free but most people were trapped into thinking that they needed useless jobs and had to pay "the man" for stuff.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    7. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Actually, he is referring to alchemists and demons.
      If you RTFA, you'll understand his point.
      Here's part of it:
      "Increasingly, cheating devices behave differently depending on who is looking at them. When they believe themselves to be under close scrutiny, their behavior reverts to a more respectable, less egregious standard.

      This is a shocking and ghastly turn of affairs, one that takes us back to the dark ages. Before the Englightenment, before the scientific method and its peer review, science was done by alchemists, who worked in secret.

      Alchemists – like all humans – are mediocre lab-technicians. Without peer reviewers around to point out the flaws in their experiments, alchemists compounded their human frailty with bad experimental design. As a result, an alchemist might find that the same experiment would produce a ‘‘different outcome’’ every time.

      In reality, the experiments lacked sufficient controls. But again, in the absence of a peer reviewer, alchemists were doomed to think up their own explanations for this mysterious variability in the natural world, and doomed again to have the self-serving logic of hubris infect these explanations."

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    8. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      So you think it's bad to tell developers that they shouldn't ship malware to their customers?

      As for making a decent living, our customers get the source code to all our software. Mostly because they need about $3,000,000 of our hardware to run it, so it's pretty much useless to anyone who doesn't buy that from us.

      But we do real work, rather than pushing malware on our customers.

    9. Re:"one that takes us back to the dark ages" by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      As for making a decent living, our customers get the source code to all our software. Mostly because they need about $3,000,000 of our hardware to run it, so it's pretty much useless to anyone who doesn't buy that from us.

      Damn, and I thought Macs were expensive!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  4. Meanwhile, back in the real world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    All the things that Stallman hates are used by a few billion people and all the products he approves of are used by almost nobody because they are inferior crap.

    Stallman is a crank who can be ignored.

    1. Re:Meanwhile, back in the real world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the things that Stallman hates are used by a few billion people and all the products he approves of are used by almost nobody because they are inferior crap.

      That's not strictly true. They are superior in a way that virtually nobody cares about inferior in a way that most people care about.

      You can certainly argue that a totally free and open system of hardware and software for playing games is superior in the sense of it being fully customizable and able to change any and all parameters. But in reality such a system is VASTLY inferior in the quality and performance of its hardware, software and general user experience. In theory it doesn't have to be this way but after all these years of the free software (and hardware) movement nobody has been able to implement a comparable solution in practise.

      Compare this with the PC gaming market where much of advantage of a FOSS system is served by the modability of many PC games (thus producing games like Counterstrike) and the licensing fees pay for the costly R&D and content creation (voice actors, script writers, animators, modelers, etc, etc). There you have a good practical balance (of course Stallman doesn't agree).

      Then you get to console games where people just want to play games and want it to be a black box. This obviously has many advantages for the quality of games but is inferior in terms of customizability of hardware or software.

    2. Re:Meanwhile, back in the real world by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      All else being equal, a free system would be superior because it wouldn't have the additional overhead of DRM and other such crap.
      The difference is that there isn't so much investment behind the free options, because companies see more profit to be made by locking their customers in and squeezing them than by offering them a superior product.

      --
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  5. Neo Feudalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh, in 2017, does anyone doubt anymore that we don't live in a neo-feudal system?!

    1. Re:Neo Feudalism by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1
      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  6. Re:Just unlock your phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Choose a phone and simply unlock it if that really scares you, what a stupid article.

    If you are really bothered by all that "shovelware" then don't buy a phone that contains it. It really is that simple.

  7. Standard Operating Procedure by plopez · · Score: 1

    Corporations do not have customers, they have marks.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Standard Operating Procedure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We welcome all commenters, even those like you from the Alex Jones conspiracy mindset.

    2. Re:Standard Operating Procedure by messymerry · · Score: 1

      I think "consumers" is the operative term. Lumped with bacteria, how disrespectful can you get? ;-)

      --
      Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
  8. I've seen worse. . . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

    . . . there are cell providers who will sell you a cheap phone from a generation or two back, but have the image set so you CAN'T re-flash it with a generic image. . . .

    Hint: if it's last-year's phone and offers "free" cell and net. . .steer far away. . .

    The crapware and mandatory upsells after your tiny allotment of "free" minutes and data are not worth the (alleged) savings. . .

  9. This works great...right up until it doesn't by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

    This sort of behavior works great for companies...until it doesn't anymore. When it stops working the companies which relied upon it start to fade away. IBM once relied on a similar lockin strategy. When they lost it, they began to fade. They are only still around because they had so many real assets (as in real estate).

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    1. Re:This works great...right up until it doesn't by mikael · · Score: 1

      They started selling services and support of custom hardware.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    2. Re:This works great...right up until it doesn't by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      That is true, but the further removed they get from the days when you HAD to do business with them, the less clout they have. IBM used to be THE computer company. Now they are a glorified Cray Computing.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  10. Gaslighting by pipingguy · · Score: 1

    "Increasingly, cheating devices behave differently depending on who is looking at them."

    Great gaslighting tool!

  11. RMS the almighty quack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His preaching is about as productive as my neighbor's dog barking.

    Instead of bitchy rants perhaps he should go chase down some Californian venture capital to make something capitalist happen with all the GNU code

    1. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by unixisc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      THIS!!! Absolutely THIS!!! I'd have a lot more respect for him had he and his FSF actually built a total GNU based system, complete w/ (say) Replicant, gnu, gnustep or gnome, gnu Network, gnu Social, and all the other good stuff listed in the GNU page. Create a package, then create a tablet/phone/netbook that can work these, price it something that would cover both the costs as well as the FSF union, and then market it. If it's a phone, it can use SIMs from anybody, except the legacy CDMA guys, it can use WiFi. Heck, he can even build around it some AGPL 3.0 services that can be sold packaged w/ that to offer IP calls, both audio and video. In fact, build a whole ecosystem around it, and sell it!!!

      Instead, he comes up w/ stupid slogans and names for products he doesn't like, like iBad. Reason: for all his denials, he just hates capitalism and the free market (just check out Stallman.org for his latest cause de jour, which today happens to be the 9/11 assassination of President Allende of Chile & his replacement by Pinochet. Looking forward to his denunciation of the death sentence of Socrates next week.) He's incapable of either organizing nor backing a company that could transform his supposed dreams into reality (as Red Hat's former CEO Bob Young once said, Stallman knows how to treat his friends as his enemies).

      And it's not like Corporate America would shun the likes of him either. If anything, Corporate America has shifted far left today - its backing of DACA, Paris Accord, support to Antifa, et al. Although I'm sure he'll still find reasons to find fault w/ them, just like he did w/ common Linux distros

    2. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Building a phone is not the mission of the FSF, the FSF's concern is about the wider politics of software users and software distribution. The FSF are happy to partner with projects that have the goal of promoting user freedom through phone software and phone hardware. Anybody is free to run such a project, it's just that there isn't any investment capital to do such a thing within the existing FSF associated projects.

      The preaching is important because without it, nobody will demand for a change in the status quo and then invest into that change - nobody will understand that there is a problem that needs fixing. First the education has to happen before society will choose to invest into changing the status.

    3. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying a theatre critic must be able to write a play, stage it including finding funding, direct it and so forth. Else his criticisms aren't valid.

      Got it, and found the right-wing shill at the same time.

    4. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me get this straight...

      He's right about something, but he hasn't made an entire software 'ecosystem' for a phone or a computer, built said computer/phone and made a successful business out of it, and he's now talking about some stuff you disagree with. All that put together means... he was wrong about that first thing?

      I'm confused. Can you only be right about something if you've founded a mega-corp from pretty much nothing?

    5. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      If a theater critic can find nothing but flaws in every play, then yeah, it's worth a shot. Or else, just stop watching them, and find another line of work. It's one thing for a critic to like some things and dislike others, but that's not what Stallman does. As an example, look at his criticism of all Linux distros that have any popular following: the only ones he endorses are fringe ones like gNewSense, Trisquel and so on.

      Stallman would have us all live like the Amish, while he himself plays in a time warp in the 70s, where everybody worked on teletype terminals on really arcane software. Computing has advanced eons since then, but he's still stuck there. People are not going to abandon things like FaceBook & Twitter - flawed as they are in terms of freedom of expression - when those things have not only helped people keep in touch w/ each other w/o bringing down phone lines, but also, have helped people in critical situations like in Harvey & Irma.

    6. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      The issue is not that he's right about something, but that he criticizes everything, w/o ever having a viable alternative. It's like people who rant that 'politics suck' but refuse to support people they most agree w/ b'cos 'they have no chance of winning'. He doesn't have to start a company or anything himself: he can put together a concept, get together w/ any startup and agree w/ them on a marketing plan that helps that company produce something that satisfies all his requirements while at the same time having a business model that keeps them afloat.

      But his problem is that he's an all or nothing guy - 'my way or the highway'. TiVo uses a Linux based box to do DVR and pause live TV: his solution is to come up w/ GPL3 and an 'anti-TiVoization' clause that makes it potentially impossible for any company like TiVo to make money while still being in compliance w/ both his license and content producers' copyrights. All the projects that FSF/GNU have come out w/ have been half baked, and largely unfit for human consumption, unless the consumer happens to have grown up on lisp and emacs. Hey, let him or someone who likes him produce a tablet that has Replicant and an entire slew of AGPL services, and I'll happily eat my words, w/ a generous side-dish of crow!

    7. Re:RMS the almighty quack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Building a phone is not the mission of the FSF, the FSF's concern is about the wider politics of software users and software distribution.

      Is it unthinkable that building a phone might further their goals regarding the freedom of users and software? In fact, given how influential phones and the mobile ecosystem is on society, I'd posit that they're nearly derelict in their self-appointed duty for disregarding it for so long.

  12. More Doctrow Drek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why this guy continues to get trotted out as some self-ordained sage is beyond me.
    It's not a "proprietary software" problem.

    It didn't start with printers. "Vendor Lock-in" has been a very real problem that started back with Standard Oil. GM and Ford did it with customized bolt and but sizes and styles requiring special tools. Even government gets involved with HD broadcast and cellphone standards.

    Microsoft via Windows 10 and Apple already snoop and direct used actions (or had Cory missed the rewrite of the music player on the iPhone to direct users to their streaming service) and so does the NON-proprietary Firefox which captures users data and directs ads at them.

    As for the thermostats that are power company controlled - well that's thanks to proprietary government intervention that's trying to save the earth from global warming Cory. It's all government approved. It also why you can't get plasma TVs anymore because California mandated a massive surcharge on plasma TVs sold within the state because they use too much power.

    What you're rebelling against here, Doctrow and Stallman, isn't evil fat cat corporationy people. You're arguing against central government control and planning dictating winners and losers with an insane need for data collection to make sure everyone is behaving.

    This is what you get with an always on world and groups of people trying to impose their morality on others - which increases the value of data and polling to the point it's too valuable to not collect. Even limited government won't stop it because you need a big enough government to regulate it which will promptly become corrupted by the power to use the data for itself.

    TL;DR - it's not proprietary software - it's a systemic issue worldwide.

    1. Re:More Doctrow Drek by mellon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um. Thermostats controlled by the utility are optional. You can go your own way if you want. The reason they are good is not that they are cheating, but rather than it's to everybody's benefit not to overload the grid: if you overload it, it goes down, and then everybody loses. It's called cooperation. This is not what Stallman and Doctorow are talking about. Open source software in those devices would be great, and indeed there are some pretty nice open source home energy control systems available today.

    2. Re: More Doctrow Drek by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      What happens if cooperation is necessary for sustainability, but people don't cooperate and control the thermostats themselves? Who then should have the final say?

    3. Re:More Doctrow Drek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11control.html

      "The proposed rules are contained in a document circulated by the California Energy Commission, which for more than three decades has set state energy efficiency standards for home appliances, like water heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators. The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers’ preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities’ suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers’ wishes."

      First it starts for "emergency purposes" then it extends into daily use for economic purposes. 78 degrees is a temperature we can live with.

    4. Re:More Doctrow Drek by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      "it's to everybody's benefit not to overload the grid"

      No, it's to everybody's benefit for the power company to have enough power generation capability to meet demand.

    5. Re:More Doctrow Drek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TL;DR - it's not proprietary software - it's a systemic issue worldwide.

      Yeah, my car would be so much lighter without those seat belts, airbags, and mufflers!

      Imma gonna throw a tantrum if they try to impose their morality on me!

    6. Re: More Doctrow Drek by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 5, Informative

      What happens if cooperation is necessary for sustainability, but people don't cooperate and control the thermostats themselves? Who then should have the final say?

      Money works. Where I used to live there was a discount on power bills if you agreed to have a smart switch on your A/C. I never noticed any difference in temperature, and I paid less. I benefitted from the arrangement and so did the utility.

    7. Re:More Doctrow Drek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      With there being significant pressure to increase unstable power generation methods like solar and wind, it is a good thing to be able to control the load somewhat on demand. Heating and AC are good candidates for this.

    8. Re:More Doctrow Drek by hord · · Score: 1

      To infinity and beyond?

    9. Re:More Doctrow Drek by 0123456 · · Score: 0

      No, it would be a good thing to NOT have unstable power generation.

      Just because the left want us to live like third-world peasants who can't rely on having a stable electrical supply doesn't make it a good idea.

    10. Re:More Doctrow Drek by Drethon · · Score: 2

      Um. Thermostats controlled by the utility are optional. You can go your own way if you want. The reason they are good is not that they are cheating, but rather than it's to everybody's benefit not to overload the grid: if you overload it, it goes down, and then everybody loses. It's called cooperation. This is not what Stallman and Doctorow are talking about. Open source software in those devices would be great, and indeed there are some pretty nice open source home energy control systems available today.

      It is true that keeping the grid up is important. But where I live, that isn't a problem. We don't get black outs unless a storm rolls though, we don't get brown outs. This may change in the future but isn't happening now. Utility controlled thermostats are currently a way for the energy company to save millions while the consumers save a couple dollars each.

    11. Re: More Doctrow Drek by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The basic idea is a good one. If you can stagger HVAC units coming on by even a few seconds it can massively reduce the peak loads. That's good for everyone.

      The problem is that the system is proprietary. I'd have no issue connecting my AC unit to wifi so it can use an open protocol to talk to the power company and negotiate when to turn on. What I don't want is some black box connected to my system that I have no control over and no idea what it is doing.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:More Doctrow Drek by coofercat · · Score: 1

      I'd rather accept a thermostat that does what it wants without my control if I knew I was going to get a grid that would actually stay working just because a bunch of people fancied a cup of tea at around the same time.

      I get the notion of co-operation, but it seems on this point the customers all have to co-operate with the provider so that the provider doesn't have to do any cooperating of its own.

    13. Re:More Doctrow Drek by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      What you're rebelling against here, Doctrow and Stallman, isn't evil fat cat corporationy people. You're arguing against central government control and planning dictating winners and losers with an insane need for data collection to make sure everyone is behaving.

      That's a distinction without a difference. The major corporations pretty much are the government in the US, and that trend has been accelerating.

      it's a systemic issue worldwide.

      I agree.

    14. Re:More Doctrow Drek by mellon · · Score: 1

      The slippery slope argument is a bit tired.

    15. Re:More Doctrow Drek by mellon · · Score: 1

      It's actually market pressure, not "the left."

  13. Dieselgate the world. by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

    When they believe themselves to be under close scrutiny, their behavior reverts to a more respectable, less egregious standard.

    Doesn't that sound familiar?

    It's Dieselgate writ small -- and this time around, there is no government agency tracking this sort of shit. That's why I rather suspect it will fail to make the radar of lawmakers until something particularly egregious happens. It probably will happen though.

    Making a plan now and waiting until it's politically expedient to trot it out is better than having to make up policy on the fly, although it also allows greater chances of nasty poison pills getting embedded in it.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  14. Abusive open source software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source doesn't stop all abuse. Look at systemd.

    1. Re:Abusive open source software by mellon · · Score: 1

      Sufficiently difficult-to-maintain open source software is indistinguishable from proprietary.

    2. Re:Abusive open source software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stallman doesn't care about open source. Stallman has no moral opposition to systemd on the basis of its GPLv3 distribution license.

    3. Re:Abusive open source software by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      True. Open source is not, and never has been, a panacea. It's just better than the alternatives.

  15. Re:Just unlock your phone by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

    The phone companies are acting like a monopoly in that regard. They add as much malware as their competitors, effectively making the whole market the same. To be fair it's partially the consumers fault for being willing to pay twice as much as long as its spread out over two years and some of it comes from their soul instead of their wallet.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  16. I always feel icky agreeing with him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always feel icky agreeing with him; but he's not entirely wrong. Of course the obfuscation of closed-source isn't the only stick they can beat you with; but it's the most convenient one. They could open all the software and lock you into a server too. I think the GPL v3 was RMS's attempt to block that; but I'm not sure how widely adopted it is. Even if all the software were GPL'd, you can still be alienated from certain rights via a contract; so I guess I don't have to agree that much with him, or really feel that icky.

    What's fair is fair, and what's not is not. Eliminating all closed-source is a sledgehammer approach that won't really fix this problem, and will introduce others.

    1. Re:I always feel icky agreeing with him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GPLv3 was never intended to deal with the issue of networked services. The GPLv3 was mainly intended to deal with Tivoization among other issues. Eliminating closed-source software is the goal of the Stallman and the FSF.

  17. Re:Just unlock your phone by thesupraman · · Score: 1

    Absolutely!
    Because, you know what? its actually IMPOSSIBLE to buy a phone thats not from a carrier, IMPOSSIBLE I say!

    Oh, wait a minute, they are everywhere, and there is actually no need to buy a carrier phone in the first place.

  18. Contractual commerce? by Monster_user · · Score: 1

    So companies are delegating the terms of the contracts, and deciding what their customers get. Because there is some feature of the phone that is such a hot ticket item, perhaps one of those "no-no's" mention in the OP? Don't really see a solution to this. Apparently the gains outweigh the losses for most individuals.

  19. But /. only loves business-speak by jbn-o · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For years Eben Moglen has been pointing out "Stallman was right" in his talks. Moglen regularly cites how Stallman got there years before the corporate-minded press (and thus repeater sites like /. don't promote that point of view). It's very much the problem we see with the open source advocacy for nonfree software (or, put differently, the open source enthusiasts' unwillingness to stand by their pitched development methodology). I understand it rankles to read someone pointing out that free software and open source aren't the same, but when it comes to endorsing proprietary software they certainly are not and this endorsement ought not be pushed aside. Red Hat has a cozy relationship with Microsoft which includes bundling .NET software despite patent claims that render such software nonfree particularly if one wants to do something with the software they can do with free software—adding covered code to another project.

    You still see people here (even on this topic) posting something that demonstrates an unfounded belief they have more control over their nonfree OS-running computer than they have. "At least on PCs I could figure out what was crap, and delete it.", for example. Taking "PC" not to mean "personal computer" but computer running Microsoft Windows, there are plenty of examples of programs that either don't include working uninstallers or installers that purposefully leave something behind which can't be easily uninstalled (Sony's rootkit which also interfered with CD ripping, for example).

    /.'s user-driven censorship scheme effectively increases the odds that freedom-talk goes unseen. If you want to see your post never get moderated up (and thus be less likely to show up for most /. readers using default settings), try pointing to any of the GNU Project's malware pages. These pages are highly informative lists which are helpfully divided into useful subcategories. They all explain how nonfree or proprietary software most computer users run deserve the alternative name "user-subjugating" and point to stories written by others, naming names and leaving no doubt as to their authenticity. /. wants clicks and like any click/like-oriented publication, adherence to established corporate norms is the heart of the effort. Stories like this come along once in a while but clearly the mainstay of tech press is convincing people to argue over minor technicalities while they narrow the allowable debate to which proprietary programs shall run on one's system.

    1. Re:But /. only loves business-speak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just read through the comments on here. While solutions to these problems exist you see mindless corporate drones trying to tell you otherwise. PCs, smartphones, routers, thermostats, etc are not ruled by proprietary software, there are open alternatives but so many people here just try to brainwash you into believing you have no choice and that you're a slave and there's nothing you can do.

      Nobody here seems to want to find/build solutions to problems, they want to complain that they are being subjugated as a way to do nothing but to not appear ignorant. A way to convince themselves (and others) that they are not a part of the unthinking masses, that they are enlightened but the corporations are just too powerful.

  20. Price of pointless demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... treat the owner of the device ...

    You don't own the software. Worse, you agree the provider/manufacturer of the device, can change the software at any time.

    ... began with printers and spread to phones ...

    Who do I complain to when a Samsung firmware update installs Facebook? Software isn't held to the 'built to purpose' responsibility that hardware is. But again, you didn't buy the software.

    How many printer reviews mentioned the RRP and expected output of the required printer cartridges? How many phone reviews and retailers list the crap-ware installed by the provider/manufacturer?

    This is the problem with a "shoe-event horizon" or a "build it and they will come" market: Pointless demand means there's no need to supply a better product. Worse, a new phone will be dumped in 2 years, so the provider/manufacturer is driven to avoid accountability until its enforcement is pointless.

    1. Re:Price of pointless demand by ray-auch · · Score: 1

      ... treat the owner of the device ...

      You don't own the software. Worse, you agree the provider/manufacturer of the device, can change the software at any time.

      Need to distinguish carrier-lockin from manufacturer lock-in - they are different.

      If it is a phone with a "Carriers adapted custom versions of Android" then you don't actually own the _device_ either - you are renting it until it is paid off on contract and many people never even do that because they get a carrier-provided "upgrade" and carry on renting. If you _buy_ your phones sim-free _then_ you _own_ the device, and guess what - no carrier-special garbage on it, no carrier lock-in, no carrier-special app stores.

      Manufacturer lock-in is a different problem, still a problem but there are multiple mfrs to choose from and at least buying sim-free you can be reasonably sure you are getting the same phone as in the reviews (where the mfr has some incentive to show good performance) rather than a carrier-crippled mess.

      The problem with carrier lock-in is that most people are too dumb, too disorganised with money (note, not too poor - renting costs more) or simply too seduced by shiny-stuff they can't really afford (upgrades...) to escape the carrier phone rental model. The same people are also typically tied into phone contracts, paying way too much for their mobile minutes/data and unable to switch carriers or change contract to suit life changes - this is not a coincidence...

      Me, I am happily running the family phones on sim-only 30-day contracts at less than £10 a month, most of the phones are over 3yrs old and still doing as good as they did when new and doing what the users need.

    2. Re:Price of pointless demand by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      you agree the provider/manufacturer of the device, can change the software at any time.

      I most certainly do not, and I take active measures to make sure this doesn't happen.

  21. Co-inky-dinks by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just posted on the thread about Equifax about how they identify more with hackers than customers. We have reached the bizarre and unsustainable state where in computing, the customer is simultaneously the customer, the product, and the enemy.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Co-inky-dinks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Work in retail and you will quickly realize the customer has always been the enemy.

  22. netflix can drop the rooted phones block by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    netflix can drop the rooted phones block or google can enforce some rules / have dev mode be able to do more.

  23. Chill out man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article reeks of hysteria. Take a deep breath and chill. Every business transaction and purchase for that matter has benefits, costs and risks. Having an app on your phone that can't be deleted doesn't sound like a life threatening event to me. If a product you want does not have the features or provisions you want vote with your wallet.

  24. i want smartphone that is 100% open source by FudRucker · · Score: 2

    hardware and software, i want to be able to install my choice of Linux on it and know all the hardware will function properly because the hardware is open source so the open source Linux will be able to run the phone's features & functions

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:i want smartphone that is 100% open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think this is really related to open source or not despite the title, more like companies all looking for extra profits where they don't really belong. iPhone here seem to me to have set the standard that others now see the ability to abuse and overstep. Even coffee machines it is about the consumables.
      I was working for a company trying to develop high end medical product and they are focused on making the consumables not substitute-able even at a company board level.

      Here is the driver for businesses, some guys with ideas and a demo looking for investors. How to sell, not just the ticket price but each unit brings ongoing sales of apps, coffee pods, ink, monthly rental and we need to make this good to get the cash from the investors hands into our hands! And it works, which is why those are the companies getting the cash and therefore making their product and taking market share and taking your monthly amount. Every investor considers different opportunities before deciding where to put their cash it is the ones that look the best on roi that win.

      You too can win but not with your 100% open source idea as it stands, you need to add to that customer lock in, force them to use our app store, patents (need about 10 of those) then you can develop your smartphone idea with a stack of investors behind you. You may need a few buz words also and a cool video with music. Oh and no problem that it is open source (but I would not bother to mention that to the investors)

    2. Re:i want smartphone that is 100% open source by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      You could get most of that, but the modem will always be the problem. Especially in the US, networks are very picky about what they let connect. To get certified is expensive, and if you tell them that it's an open platform that lets people run their own arbitrary code they are going to deny you.

      Cellular networks are a shared resource, and only work if every device on the network behaves. If anyone could go to xdadevelopers and download a hacked modem.bin that grabs all the bandwidth and tags it data with the highest priority above emergency calls the system will quickly break down.

      I can't see any way around this. The radio spectrum is shared, it has to be regulated or it becomes useless.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  25. Stallman forgets about support by mveloso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In RMS' world, end-users are honest and can support themselves.

    In real life end-users lie, cheat, and do stuff to equipment then say to support "I have no idea why it doesn't work, you need to replace this POS."

    Unlike RMS, companies live in the Real World, where incompetent people do dumb things then complain when you can't fix it.

    Put RMS on level 1 support and see what he thinks afterwards.

    1. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... where incompetent people do dumb things ...

      That would be a reason to avoid software which is slow, non-intuitive and disobeys most of the UI policies promoted by the OS. Instead, phone providers are putting crap-ware like Facebook into their firmware.

    2. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could not find a worst article to say those things.
      He is talking about customers who want to pay for third party companies to fix or buy pieces to fix things and are not allowed. That is so far from customers who break things on purpose and ask for new ones.
      The bloatware and the locks being put to prevent people from going third party are in no way there to guarantee that the customers are voiding the warranty.

    3. Re:Stallman forgets about support by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or just design your product so that it doesn't soft-brick when the user screws up, and make the factory reset process easy. As long as you can do that any other warranty issues will be judged by if there is physical damage or not.

      The reason companies do this shit has nothing to do with support. It's all about retaining control of the product after sale, turning a purchase into a licence agreement that benefits them and opens up additional customer farming opportunities.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In your world, support is honest and can help users. In real life support staff are dumb, incompetent and often even cheat.

      Like I was asked to reboot my router to fix connectivity issues on my Kindle DX (which does not have wifi). Or Like I was told that the manager is busy when I tried to escalate.

      Did not like it? What goes around, comes around, mister support supporter. Dumb idiots are everywhere, and so are smart persons - depends on attitude you see.

    5. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stallman imples education and a culture of it at that. you're from land of lying and cheating and doing stuff jailed animal like it seems, Stallman would have served to keep you out of that prison and you're not getting it? misplacing anger against god against human thinkers much?

    6. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RMS's idea of level-1 support is to make all users of a multi-user system UID 0 with no passwords. literally. This is what he thinks should happen.

      He may be prescient about corporate threats, but he's risk-dense about individual threats.

    7. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget liability issues.

      I personally had to scrap new prototype engineering equipment any university ee semiconductor lab would love to have but the liability issues where too difficult.

      Even if they knew what worked and what didn't and you gave it only to grad students or a special lab who were above average technically you couldn't get around the potential safety issues.

      It was better to drill holes in things or otherwise make sure the item was scrapped rather than risk returns or be accused things weren't tested to meet some sort of standards.

      These days I am working on medical equipment that may wind up in the home. Should an end user be allowed to hack that? It is already really difficult to prevent tampering.

    8. Re:Stallman forgets about support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just design your product so that it doesn't soft-brick when the user screws up, and make the factory reset process easy.

      That's exactly the kind of lock-down RMS is against.

      You can't make a product both opensource, enduser modifiable and unbrickable. To make something have a factory reset process, it has to have a user immutable area of memory to store the factory reset. That area is precisely the thing RMS is whining about in his latest rant.

  26. Oh Slashdot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The old Slashdot that I used to love! :)

  27. Re:I agree, but RMS doesn't go far enough by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    A free market is an unattainable dream, just like true communism or true freedom.
    If people have true freedom then inevitably some will abuse that freedom in order to subjugate others for their own ends.

    The purpose of government, and indeed of the GPL is to impose some restrictions in order to ensure a fair system where everyone is guaranteed the same level of freedom. Governments for instance typically don't allow you to go around killing or enslaving people, because in doing so you would be taking away their freedom.

    The same is true in a free market, companies would quickly realise that there are greater profits to be had by colluding and merging. You'd end up with one large supplier controlling the entire supply chain and noone else would have the resources to ever compete with them.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  28. Holy hubris, Batman! by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    This is a shocking and ghastly turn of affairs, one that takes us back to the dark ages. /quote

    Well, guess I missed the news about the Black Death being back in town...last I looked we still had aircon and running water too.

  29. No... you do not understand the problem. by denzacar · · Score: 1

    The handset is powered by Qualcomm's beastly Snapdragon 820 SoC, and offers 4GB of RAM along with 32GB storage.

    How do you expand that built in 32 GB storage? Would a hammer be enough or does one need powertools or corrosive chemicals?

    Same goes for that 4GB of RAM, choked with processes and services and various crap you simply don't want to be running in the background, trying to be "smart" for you until you're barely managing not to throw the phone at the wall.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:No... you do not understand the problem. by exomondo · · Score: 2

      How do you expand that built in 32 GB storage? Would a hammer be enough or does one need powertools or corrosive chemicals?

      It's called an SD-Card slot, an SD card is a memory card that allows you to expand the phone's available storage. Quite some time ago Android added the ability for applications to be installed on SD cards as well. Buying a phone that gives you this option of adding storage (or even better one that is supported by alternative OS distributions) is a way of "voting with your wallet". There is a vibrant and active community working to solve exactly the problem you are complaining about so support them by helping to write documentation, code or donating money.

      Exactly what is your proposed solution? Or are you just here to suggest that everything is hopeless?

    2. Re:No... you do not understand the problem. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      That's still not a good enough solution, because until only the most recent versions of android, the sd card was mounted as a separate volume and managing apps on that volume was damned near impossible.

      If all you do on your phone is use the base functionality and listen to music, videos, etc, then you're fine. But anyone who wants to install various applications is still going to be hosed. Especially when something like facebooks apps take up almost an entire gigabyte all on their own.

      Now that the most recent versions of android support a fused filesystem between root and SD card, this problem is moot, but that doesn't help people stuck with older phones, or don't understand the importance of using a phone with a recent version of android.

  30. Enough of Stallman already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's create a world he finds nothing to complain about. It's not like we'd be worse off for it.

  31. don't like it don't buy it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no one forces you to buy a locked down device. if more people acted like this there maybe would be some measurable market demand for open devices and thus an incentives for manufacturers to sell such devices. but when every neckbeard on the block still wants the newest shiny transistor brick that only runs proprietary software, hoping that he will be able to root/jailbreak it, nothing will change.

    let actions follow your words.

  32. A fool and his money... by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    For the *most* part I am always a bit surprised about the complaints. I mean it is like buying a shovel, that is designed to have spikes on the handle, for the only discernible reason being so that you also have to buy their special gloves in order to use it... When said persons are questioned on if they think that was a good idea, inevitably the response is, "Ya but it is a really GOOD shovel". But is it?

    This is of course predicated on the fact that there are many other shovels laying around without spikes one might purchase. In some cases, either one industry is so dominated by either one company, or that the few companies that do exist, but more less all collude together to the same business model of screwing their customers VIA said locked in software. In that case it is truly detestable as there isn't much the consumer can do about it (provided they actually NEED said services/products). One would hope that is where government and consumer protection might step in (of course provided they aren't taking political contributions from said companies).

  33. IOMMU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I could accept a proprietary baseband if it was perfectly isolated from the rest of system,
    communicating only through a narrowly defined interface,
    or if it needs DMA, protected by an IOMMU.

  34. Fuck this world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck this world

  35. Can't take your GM to a independent mechanic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, what? Since when?

  36. Re:I agree, but RMS doesn't go far enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't know what free market means. It means a market place without coercion. No one forcing you to buy, no one forcing you to sell and no one setting prices but the people doing the buying and the selling. A free market requires government regulation. A free market is created by government regulation. It requires the rule of law, contract law and tort law. Without those things no one can trust their counter party. When people say free market they mean a market free of government coercion, not free of government regulation. The problem with the debate is both sides of the public are so poorly educated they don't even understand what is being argued about (this includes you apparently). Anti trust law is perfectly compatible with free market principles. No honest person informed about the topic would argue otherwise. While you are busy attacking this straw man of market capitalism give some thought to who created it and what their ulterior motives might be. Every time we are promised socialism what we get is fascism. It is not though the absence of government that the rich get richer, they rely on government to protect their wealth, it is through the abuse of government. The easiest way to get your money is with a gun, and government has a monopoly on violence.

  37. MY PHONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Phone is not leased, I OWN it. And any company including my carrier that tries to force software on me, I consider it to be a military attack and their networks are subject to the same.

  38. Please, don't. (was Re:Shovelware sucks) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please don't kill the messenger; instead, go to the root cause and kill it with a stake to the heart.

    And sorry, this is not that insightful, also.

    All this is a consequence of exactly what the article talks about. Don't kill the flies one by one, remove what's attracting them in the first place!

    With proprietary software, we'll always have that. Because there will always be a lame greedy jerk who will profit from what is really the very cause of the problem: everybody not giving a fsck.

    Sure, Doctorow and Stallman point to serious problems, but I'd like to add the following views, if I'm allowed:

    a) cheaters are not rational; sometimes it's the old scorpion tale... -- "why did you do it, if you knew you might be caught?" --"it's my nature";
    b) besides, even rational cheaters reason that there is a probability of succeeding... and they might be of the opportunistic, risk-seeking type, those for which even zero gain is reason enough to try;
    c) and mostly everyone contributes to that by buying closed-software machines and thinking "I'll get rid of shovelware", or "fine, I'll give my info to have a way to contact people whenever I want, even when they don't want to be contacted" or "ok, I might lose my data, but such is life" (there's actually a Google ad about losing useless photos and then losing those precious mementos of people no longer here).

    So, don't fix the problem. Don't say, "I usually delete them". We should treat these guys as the Typhoid-marys they are, spreading loss of time and forcing purchase of new hardware even when not necessary. It's like a dragon gone mad because of worms inside it and eating the Earth as a result.

    I believe nothing will be solved unless we take a much more serious stance about the problem, and knock on the big software producers to demand a more responsible service.

  39. What else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you stated is only what was in the news. What others are out there that you don't even know about. Lenovo could have embedded code in the firmware or drivers that are spying on you right now.

  40. Shades of the Edison Trust.... by MercTech · · Score: 1

    This concept that a manufacturer can dictate what you can do with a purchased piece of tech has precedents going back over 150 years. The Edison Trust lawsuits set precedent that such a practice is unlawful. Time for some more class action to reinforce it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Patents_Company

    --
    NRRPT/RCT
  41. Almost too complex by DMJC · · Score: 1

    Technology in general is almost becoming too complex to resolve this on the side of user freedom. Clearly what's needed is an open source computer design. Everything from BIOS/FIRMWARE/CPU/GPU/NETWORK/SOUND needs to be open source/open spec. I doubt it'll ever happen though. There's just not enough money/demand in it. Everyone wants an open computer platform with the caveat that it runs at 3-4ghz speed and runs x86 software. This is always going to be a fatal hindrance to it existing. x86 is locked up so tight by Intel and AMD noone is ever going to break that dominance unless China pulls off some sort of miracle, but then the CCP will probably build their own controls in.

  42. Shills like you are the problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you have a tutorial on plugging a PC into your car engine and installing this fantastical OS to control your car?

    This "fantastical OS" is the likes of OpenWRT or pfSense and you seem to not understand the point if you think they can be used to control a car. These are router operating systems and they enable you to replace the firmware on many commercially available routers or even install them on a computer and use that as your router.

    Just cause you can slap together a custom router with some PC hardware you have lying around, doesn't mean everyone else is a brainwashed idiot.

    Just because you cant use your custom router to fix your farming equipment doesnt mean it isnt worth doing and it is a pretty pathetic corporate apologist excuse to peddle:

    Forget buying devices supported by projects like Cyanogen and forget open source routers, your car isnt open source so just dont bother.

    Corporate shills like you are the real problem.

  43. Re: Just unlock your phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    except in the case of Sprint or Verizon. Even if you buy something like the Google pixel which fully supports both carriers they will generally only activate the one that is branded by their company. And yeah, you could argue "don't use Sprint or Verizon" but some people are stuck in family plans by financial necessity

  44. Help teach software freedom instead. by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    That is exactly what the masses should be determining.

    People should be trained in what software freedom means and why it matters. Instead they're trained in evaluating all options on the basis of price (and misstating the price, at that, because no price is placed on their privacy or their other rights), convenience (without regard to other values), and on fashion (functionally, there's very little that separates the older button-oriented look & feel UI from the modern swiping and OpenGL-effects-laden UIs but that the latter requires more expensive hardware which can mostly be operated only with nonfree software).

    So people should determine how computers are used by critically examining ethical arguments they're never taught to value until it's too late. This puts most computer users at a severe disadvantage and software freedom activists are up against very wealthy adversaries. But we all know that software freedom treats people in a defensibly better way we can explain in detail. We should argue for improving public education along lines that matter—software freedom and the underlying ethics of that social movement—not price, fashion, and convenience in the moment.

  45. So use sailfish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ain't using no US OS