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Ancient Papyrus Finally Solves Egypt's 'Great Pyramid' Mystery (newsweek.com)

schwit1 was the first Slashdot reader to bring us the news. Newsweek reports: Archaeologists believe they have found the key to unlocking a mystery almost as old as the Great Pyramid itself: Who built the structure and how were they able to transport two-ton blocks of stone to the ancient wonder more than 4,500 years ago...? Experts had long established that the stones from the pyramid's chambers were transported from as far away as Luxor, more than 500 miles to the south of Giza, the location of the Great Pyramid, but had never agreed how they got there. However, the diary of an overseer, uncovered in the seaport of Wadi al-Jafr, appears to answer the age-old question, showing the ancient Egyptians harnessed the power of the Nile to transport the giant blocks of stone.

According to a new British documentary Egypt's Great Pyramid: The New Evidence, which aired on the U.K.'s Channel 4 on Sunday, the Great Pyramid, also known as the Pyramid of Khufu, was built using an intricate system of waterways which allowed thousands of workers to pull the massive stones, floated on boats, into place with ropes. Along with the papyrus diary of the overseer, known as Merer, the archaeologists uncovered a ceremonial boat and a system of waterworks. The ancient text described how Merer's team dug huge canals to channel the water of the Nile to the pyramid.

130 of 253 comments (clear)

  1. Use the Nile? Whatever. by TheZeitgeist · · Score: 1

    Aliens did it man. Everyone knows that. Flying saucers, tractor beams, glowing power crystals, the works.

  2. Water pump theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    1. Re:Water pump theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I read that link, and wow, it's some pseudoscientific claptrap. Here are a few choice quotes:

      "The shape has been shown to have dramatic energizing effects. An example being water does not freeze at -40 C. within a pyramid structure."

      What??

      Then we have lots of woo about the "energy of the pyramids": "The glyph is associated with the energy of the pyramids...". And lots of unsubstantiated assertions, like: "The granite coffer and many remnants around the Giza plateau had been machined with some type of triple axis mill, an advanced machine." Or "Many modern day physicists and engineers view the Great Pyramid as a machine."

      The construction of the Great Pyramids was impressive as all fuck, given when they did it. There's no need to inject a bunch of woo into it.

    2. Re:Water pump theory by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Man, there are a lot of crazy people out there. They just can't see the simplest explanation: the rich Egyptians in charge liked to have extravagant tombs and had lots and lots of slaves and lots and lots of whips with which to build these tombs.

    3. Re:Water pump theory by tsa · · Score: 2

      Well, we know that this simple explanation is wrong. The workers were paid for their work and there were even strikes when there was a shortage of mascara, which was used to protect the workers' eyes from the harsh sunlight.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:Water pump theory by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      An example being water does not freeze at -40 C. within a pyramid structure.

      That's actually a true statement. It doesn't freeze at -40 C because it's already frozen long before that.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:Water pump theory by ShamblerBishop · · Score: 1

      Even if that site is stuffed with woo, that's a fascinating idea - and even though it is almost certainly wrong (and any potential evidence for it likely not hard to discover) - the actual concept of and physical execution of it, is pretty cool.

    6. Re:Water pump theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The construction of the Great Pyramids was impressive as all fuck, given when they did it. There's no need to inject a bunch of woo into it.

      And this leads to the answer of all questions. The pump with its pulsing and resonating was built as a giant dildo. Workers were enthusiastic to help with the construction as everyone got their fair share of using it. This then also explains why the Egypt civilization ceased to exist, because the pyramids were more fun than real intercourse, which equates to no more offsprings.

    7. Re:Water pump theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. The Great Pyramid was not used as a tomb until thousands of years after it was built, and for that particular use the building is poorly suited and was never decorated as such. It was apparently built to serve a different purpose than burial, but that original purpose is still unknown. The hydraulic ram pump theory is very compelling, and is completely consistent with legends passed down through the millennia by local wisdom keepers who claim it was a machine which produced a sound.

    8. Re:Water pump theory by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Heh. I want to know the last time that part of Egypt hit -40 C. (Or -40 F, for that matter.)

  3. Re: Great. Now prove it. by sethmeisterg · · Score: 1

    No problem. All they need is a race of slave people to do the work.

  4. Thanks Science! by evilbessie · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ramps, boats and good rope. I pretty much guessed that as a child but you know well done to those involved.

    1. Re:Thanks Science! by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's easy to suspect and hypothesize. It's quite another thing to prove it.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    2. Re:Thanks Science! by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      I know, I am being trite about it. It is interesting what they have found but it's not exactly new information.

    3. Re:Thanks Science! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      I've got an old mule and her name is Nenet
      Fifteen years on the Khufu Canal
      She's as good an old worker as you're gonna get
      Fifteen years on the Khufu Canal
      We've hauled some barges in our day
      Filled with giant blocks and hay
      And every inch of the way we know
      From Luxor to Khufu - Ho!

      Low bridge, everybody down
      Low bridge for we're coming to a town
      And you'll always know your neighbor
      And you'll always know your pal
      If you've ever navigated on the Khufu Canal

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:Thanks Science! by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Ramps, boats and good rope. I pretty much guessed that as a child but you know well done to those involved.

      No, not ramps.

      Water channels, pumps, water locks, boats, and a tiny amount of rope but not as much rope as you'd think.

      You'd need channels to get to the location of the pyramid, then you'd need a couple of water locks along the way to slowly get the vessels to the starting elevation of the pyramid.

      But think of the pyramid as being one giant reservoir, once a vessel gets inside, the water inside the pyramid acts like an elevator, the water level rises to the level needed. The only tricky part is completing the last part of the pyramid, the very top, the capstone, but that shouldn't be much of an issue because the capstone would still be able to use that elevator 95% of the way.

    5. Re:Thanks Science! by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      Ramps, boats and good rope. I pretty much guessed that as a child but you know well done to those involved.

      Surely you didn't guess that on your own as a child, since we were taught exactly this as a possible theory when we were kids. It always made sense, now there is more evidence pertaining to how it worked.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    6. Re:Thanks Science! by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      The proof is new. You know, the "new" part of "news".

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    7. Re:Thanks Science! by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Dad, is that you? Howzit going up there?

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    8. Re:Thanks Science! by evilbessie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am aware of this, but they got the stone from near a river and they built the pyramids near the same river. It's impressive that they did it at all I grant and the technical details are interesting. But I'd really like to know how they built Stonehenge with Welsh stone. No river there.

    9. Re:Thanks Science! by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      fwiw, I decided to break an old /. tradition, and read TFA. And I'll agree that TFA is somewhat breathless about "we've wondered for centuries", or whatever. So I withdraw my snark at your snark. I apologize if changing my mind upon review seems un-american.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    10. Re:Thanks Science! by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Ooo, good jab tovarishch.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    11. Re:Thanks Science! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You can guess a lot of things, especially as a child. That doesn't make it practical until you know a great many details. Especially when you take the context of now to make your guess about the past.

      I mean good rope sounds neat and all, but this was 4500 years ago. Incidentally almost 3000 years before Archimedes described the principles of flotation. But I'm sure your childhood guess would have just said the Pharaoh could look it up on Wikipedia too.

    12. Re:Thanks Science! by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      He's implying that they directed water into a watertight interior column/area. That floated stones to the top.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    13. Re:Thanks Science! by Xest · · Score: 1

      It's not a given that they came from Wales for what it's worth, they could just as well have come from much closer.

      One likely site is only 20 miles north, and it's not as though they didn't have oxen back then. The biggest stones could be pulled by 4 oxen, and it's pretty flat around there as the terrain consists of plains, and where there are hills there are shallow paths up them, with few obstacles like dense forests or rocks. The terrain is hardly difficult to traverse.

      I think the stonehenge story is a bit overhyped. We seem to think that humans from back then weren't capable of basic tasks. I think the pyramids are a much bigger jump than stonehenge regardless of the river for transportation, because the pyramids required much greater architectural understanding to build, and they still had to move these giant stones onto boats and rafts capable of holding them. Once there were in position they still had to get them up and up and up. Stonehenge stones could literally have just been brute force dragged with only a handful of ox and you could similarly use ox to pull them upright into position - the pyramids took far more manpower, and far greater coordination of that manpower as well as a far greater skillset to get everything in position and built - even when built a lot of effort went into painting and carving images and hieroglyphics.

      Stonehenge is a much smaller and massively overhyped feat, especially when you consider it was built incrementally over thousands of years - plenty enough time for someone to say "Oh doesn't it look cool when the sun comes through the stones, maybe we should shift them a bit so that it comes through on the solstice!".

    14. Re:Thanks Science! by mcswell · · Score: 1

      I understand that he's talking about channeling water, but what causes the water level to rise up to (I presume) nearly the top of the pyramid? The pyramids are clearly higher than the surrounding ground, so you can't just let the water flow in; you have to pump it *up*. (In principle, you could collect rain. Except it doesn't rain much there...) I doubt that they had any pumps, certainly not pumps sufficient to pump millions of liters of water more than a hundred meters up.

    15. Re:Thanks Science! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Actually they used ramps (made from sand)

      A chain of water locks going a few hundred meters high, is extremely impractical, on such a tight place.
      And if they tried that, we likely knew it from the remainings.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:Thanks Science! by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Not sure.

      Say I offered you a million dollars to solve it? Could you?

      Here's some ideas.

      slaves carrying/passing up water.
      archmedian screwpumps (being cast in bronze by 900bc were an egyptian thing.

      It seems to me if they built these big canals then they might show up on satellite maps now that we know what to look for.

      That'd be one way to prove the theory.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    17. Re:Thanks Science! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      You'd need channels to get to the location of the pyramid, then you'd need a couple of water locks [h-cdn.co] along the way to slowly get the vessels to the starting elevation of the pyramid.

      Locks require a regular supply of water to work. The photo you link to is of the Caen Hill flight, but if you look at the map, you'll see the extensive storage ponds needed for the water to operate this flight. That's in relatively moist Britain ; the engineering needed to operate a significant set of locks in Egypt would be hard to miss. The nearest land high enough to host reservoirs that would get even half-way up the Great Pyramid is over 10km away to the W

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    18. Re:Thanks Science! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      You're conflating two aspects of Stonehenge. There are two types (and styles) of stones used in the Stonehenge monument : the large, rectangular stones used in the "two up and one across" structures (trilithons) are made from "sarsen" (a calcareous sandstone remnant from various parts of the "Downs" on which Stonehenge is built. The likely source for these slabs - up to about 40 tons - is considered the Marlborough Downs, 20-odd miles to the north of the site. However there are 56 smaller stones in the site, typically 1 to 2 m tall and a half-metre or so in diameter (typically one tonne) which are described as "bluestones". These are rhyolitic tuffs and have been traced on very solid petrological grounds (also in the last few years, radiometric dating) to a quarry in Pembrokeshire, Wales.

      The big difference between Stonehenge and the Pyramids is that the Pyramids had a larger workforce available in substantial chunks through the year, while the fields were flooded by the Nilotic Inundation. Though the recent excavations at Durrington Walls suggests a large seasonal occupation there, which may have been associated with the construction programme.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    19. Re:Thanks Science! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Incidentally almost 3000 years before Archimedes described the principles of flotation.

      So, nobody built boats before about 500CE? That would explain how the Romans didn't besiege Syracuse in 212BCE, killing Archimedes in the process - they didn't have any boats to get to the island of Sicily.

      Our ancestors knew very how to do a lot of things that they didn't have a comprehensive understanding of.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    20. Re:Thanks Science! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Put the beer keg at the bottom & the toilet at the top. Then add frat boys.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Thanks Science! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So, nobody built boats before about 500CE?

      Based on what? Evidence? That's kind of my point. 500CE, 2500BC, 10000BC, first bipeds walking on land... we have nothing to go on the capabilities of people other than evidence that they were able to do something.

      After the principles of flotation were published the requirement for evidence was greatly reduced when discussing people making floating things. A child's mind would extrapolate: We know how to send ships to the other side of the world carrying 100000T cargo, so they must have used ships!

      An adult's mind, and an archaeologist's mind says: the exact principles of flotation were only described 2000 years after this. We know they used boats at the time, but lets look for evidence that they were both capable and actually did built a boat that was able to haul this specific cargo. We're talking about blocks where people are debating about how to physically move them in the first place, it's not a foregone conclusion that they not only moved them with ease but were also able to load and unload them on ships.

  5. Re:Great. Now prove it. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    Why cannot use any modern technology to prove its feasability?
    I mean we had a lot of people die during this process. You could prably measure the force of a thousand people to move a stone 1 meter. Then use heavy machinery to test the rest of the process.
    They don’t need to make a whole structure. Just each of the tricky parts as a proof of concept.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  6. Re:Fake News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ancient egypts were white...

  7. So... by Templer421 · · Score: 1

    Who is looking for the canals?

  8. Re:Fake News by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    i.e. exercising their Constitutional Right of Free Speech.

    Nobody's saying they should go to jail or have the government stop them. But free speech does not mean there can be no consequences. If the NFL wanted to fire them they could, within the bounds of whatever their contract is. They also can choose to not do anything or even support it. But that has nothing to do with their "Constitutional Right of Free Speech".

    The people saying it's disrespectful are also exercising their rights. For what it's worth, I think they don't understand, or choose not to understand, what the players' protest is actually about. And for what its worth I think Trump is a dangerous lunatic who should not be in charge of anything. But defending the players by saying "it's their right" is missing the point.

  9. Junky video. Be warned by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    That link takes you to a site that auto plays a slide of text, slowly with even more weird music.

    Foget Net neuatrality? These sites will kill internet as we know it.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  10. Re:Ancient aliens by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

    Everyone knows the only way the pyramids could have been built was with the help of ancient aliens.

    Why would the aliens necessarily be ancient? Maybe they were just alien kids playing with blocks, and now that they've grown up they've moved on to other worlds.

  11. Bullcrap! It was Aliens! Ancient Aliens! by williamyf · · Score: 1, Troll

    Those "archeologists" were not present there.

    That "surveyer" was only part of a conspiracy to surpress the truth about our ancient overlords.

    No ammount of "evidence" will change that.

    I still can not conceive how that could be done by mere humans, therefore: Aliens!

    Anything and everything else is all fake news.

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  12. Oh please by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Now they need to prove it's possible by actually using this method to excavate and move a stone as large as the largest one in the pyramids.

    No need to get fancy about such ideas; levers, rollers, ramps, chisels, hammers, muscle. It's not only possible, it's obviously possible. They were metalworkers.

    And that's not to say they didn't apply something, or several somethings, more clever to the problem, either - it's just that excavating such blocks can be done with those things and nothing more.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Oh please by gtall · · Score: 2

      Damn, so no aliens, huh? The Greek guy with the electric hair will be disappointed.

    2. Re:Oh please by BinBoy · · Score: 1

      Damn, so no aliens, huh?

      Who do you think built the canals?

  13. Comments Section by jillybeann · · Score: 2

    The comments section on this site has really gone downhill. Where did all of the intellectually brilliant and funny comments go? Could it be a new age of younger, less smart people due to frequent use of cell phones and Facebook? Has the NSA infested the community? Mass mind control?

    1. Re:Comments Section by mrbester · · Score: 2

      I presume you mean responses from those with a low UID. This very question has been asked in the past and one of the reasons was similar to what IHateFatCashews wrote. Even before I decided to finally create an account and ending up with a pathetic late-to-the-party 6 digit UID, there'd been a mass exodus. It happens with an almost predictable frequency, like solar minima.

      Not all have travelled beyond the Rim. Many remain.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    2. Re:Comments Section by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Comment longer than 140^H^H^H280 characters. TL;DR

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    3. Re:Comments Section by dow · · Score: 4, Funny

      They're just waiting, watching for a time when the universe might need them again.

    4. Re:Comments Section by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 2

      As long as that universe has good personal time breaks and isn't too uphill.

  14. Re:Alternate theory by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Informative

    The workers were not slaves. There are payroll records to prove it.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  15. Not really solved. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    They think the stones were floated on logs and custom built canals brought the stones from quarry site to the construction site. It is not a mystery and people were already guessing they must have done it. Nile boats are very prominent in all Egypt art work.

    The real mystery is how they lifted these blocks up the structure. The descendant of the caste of temple builders in South India says they build a helical wall that spirals around the structure. The wall is filled with sand. Stones are rolled up the helical ramp and moved into place. Once the structure is complete, the scaffolding wall is broken, sand spills out, and the structure is reveled. How they build the Big Temple at Thanjavur

    It is possible the Egyptians also used inclined planes, possibly even the same helical inclined plane. BTW the helical inclined plane is used day in day out by us, we call them the threads in nuts and bolts.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Not really solved. by narcc · · Score: 1

      BTW the helical inclined plane is used day in day out by us, we call them the threads in nuts and bolts.

      I'm so glad you were paying attention in 3rd grade when they taught us about simple machines. Good for you.

    2. Re:Not really solved. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      They could be raised up a water tight shaft made of stone. So entry at the bottom of the shaft, securely water tightly block the entry to the shaft and then fill the shaft full of water raising the stone on it's floating platform. You are still having to shift the same mass up to the top by hand but now you are doing it bit by bit carting water up there. If you have more than one shaft, you can regain some efficiency, by using the full shaft to half, fill other shafts. You could also displace water with sand and let the sand flow out afterwards.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  16. Re:Great. Now prove it. by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

    You realize that by using basic physics it is possible to prove it with out doing it right? 1) can humans dig canals? Yes 2) lets calculate the required buoyancy of a barge for such a stone....check 3) can such a barge be built using the materials in the area? yes.... proved it can be done....have a nice day.

  17. No shit by DrXym · · Score: 2

    This "great mystery" hasn't been such for a long time. Quarries carved rocks to make blocks, the blocks were moved onto barges and then the barges were sailed to places where they were required. Evidence for canals was established long before now. The only mystery is why anybody has such trouble understanding that ancient peoples weren't idiots.

    1. Re:No shit by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      "A more perplexing mystery is why we continue to bother answering half-assed garbage posts by the likes of you. The world may never know."
      QFT

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:No shit by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      That they built the pyramids proves that if they weren't idiots, they were deluded. What a waste of human effort.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re:No shit by DrXym · · Score: 2
      There is archeological evidence of canals from quarries in Aswan that has been known about for years. And canals and docks near Giza that granite blocks arrived. In fact virtually every limestone, sandstone and granite quarry in Egypt was situated close to the Nile for obvious reasons. Also obvious would be their desire to minimize the effort required to transport blocks which would involve bringing water closer to the quarry via canals where practicable. If you had bothered to do even a brief search before hammering out your response you might even learn that.

      So no "great mystery" has been solved here. Just some TV show hyping up some recent evidence that merely confirms and adds detail to what was already known.

    4. Re:No shit by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The only mystery is why anybody has such trouble understanding that ancient peoples weren't idiots.

      You don't need to be an idiot to not understand something and to leave future people questioning if you were able to come up with the idea at all. There is a fundamental disconnect between building something and understanding something. Therefore we are able to only rely on physical records or evidence that people actually did something.

      E.g. given a complete absence of any records before Christ, what would be your basis for belief that Egyptians could build barges? Archimedes didn't describe the principles about how flotation worked until the 3rd century. If you didn't have evidence that they were building and using boats over 2000 years earlier, what would be your basis for that belief? Or flip the argument around, do you believe the Egyptians knew the world was round and circled around the sun?

      People are only as intelligent as the records show they were. Nothing more, nothing less.

    5. Re:No shit by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      It is an excellent way to have the government spent its money and have basically zero unemployment.

      And unlike you, 5 years ago, hey had universal health care in Egypt 5000 years ago.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:No shit by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      People are^H^H^H seem only as intelligent as the records show they were. Nothing more, nothing less.

      We know like forever than the ancient world had barges, so not really sure at what you are aiming.
      How would the copper from Cypern/Cyprus reach Egypt if they had no sea going vessels?

      And yes, most likely the Egyptians knew the earth is round. After all they traveled over sea on the east side of Africa down to Somalia and beyond. (The south tip of Somalia is beyond the Equator)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:No shit by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Complete absence of records before Christ? Oh dear oh dear.

      The Rosetta stone, Armarna letters, THOUSANDS of hieroglyphic texts on tombs, inscriptions on monuments and steles. Plus written descriptions of ships, depictions of boats in paintings, model boats in funerary goods, actual boats like the Khufu boat. Even evidence of shipyards, canals and docks. Boats were important to the Egyptians for obvious reasons.

      Aside from that, the stone quarries themselves all lie next to the Nile, again for obvious reasons - the blocks were transported by river. The Aswan quarry isn't even on the same side of the Nile as Giza. So even if they dragged those blocks 500 damned miles they'd still have to be ferried from one bank to the other. And at that point why not use the natural conveyor belt they happened to be next to in the first place? And besides ALL THAT. We even have the likes of Herodotus explaining how Egyptians moved large obelisks, which are far larger than standard blocks were transported by water.

      So sorry there isn't much doubt about what Egyptians were capable of or what they obviously did.

      It's hard to even fathom why you reference Archimedes except as some non sequitur. One doesn't need to know how boats float to know that they do float. Egyptians built lots of boats and had thousands of years of practical experience building them and navigating them on the Nile and around the Mediterranean / Red Sea. They figured a lot out through trial, error and practical experience.

  18. Re:Great. Now prove it. by narcc · · Score: 1

    "It could possibly have been done this way" is not the same as "proved it can be done".

    As for your specifc "proof" by "basic physics" well... that's another matter entirely. I don't even know where to begin.

  19. Re:Great. Now prove it. by stephanruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Water locks and water channels are already proven technologies. Even ancient China had them.

    Once the water is level, it doesn't take much energy to pull a vessel on a channel. For instance in France, I've seen a horse pull a multi-ton vessel with no working motor without much effort at all.

    And once the vessel is inside the pyramid and assuming the pyramid acts like a giant water reservoir, then filling up that reservoir and raising the water level, and then pulling the vessel to the side where you need the blocks shouldn't take much energy either.

    The only tricky part might be the ancient water pumping mechanism and how efficient it was before the water would evaporate or seep away.

  20. Re:None of that explains the large cut stones by blindseer · · Score: 2

    In Egypt, there are still large obelisks, and large carved stones, including granite!

    Your solution doesn't explain those.

    My explanation does not have to. I'm not trying to explain the construction technique of every stone structure from ancient Egypt, only how some of the large stones came to be in the pyramids. Even the people that believe in the use of poured lime slurry blocks will agree that some of the stones were quarried far away and brought in with boats, sledges, and muscle. Perhaps they used the large stones as the forms, not wood. There was not a lot of wood in ancient Egypt.

    Carving granite was done in ancient Egypt, I don't recall anyone disputing this. Those that do will likely think of fantastic explanations of aliens bringing them forges capable of forming granite into shapes. Then they'll explain how all of this technology was lost without a trace. It doesn't take aliens from a distant planet to explain these things, just more imagination and some understanding of physics, chemistry, and engineering.

    People like to point to the 10 ton blocks of granite in the pyramids to "prove" that they had access to heavy machinery. I remember in high school the track team picking up the coach's truck (admittedly a small truck) and putting it sideways in its parking spot as a joke. That's 2 or 3 tons lifted by a bunch of teenagers on a whim. Get a much larger group of motivated adults, and with planning, they'll move 10 ton blocks great distances and to great heights. They'll do this with tools made of bronze and wood too.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  21. Re: Great. Now prove it. by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thanks to Obama and Hillary there is an abundance of illiterate undocumented laborers ready to be exploited for the task!

    They're poor and desperate, so they're necessarily illiterate, and came here because of Hillary? You've already called them rapists and murderers, Mr. Trump, so you need not continue to insult and demonize them.

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  22. Cast in place? by Miamicanes · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Personally, I think the most obvious theory is likely to be the closest to the correct explanation: that the blocks WEREN'T quarried, but are some form of manmade cast stone made from ancient concrete.

    If they were cast instead of directly quarried, the builders could have just built the whole thing like a modern freeway embankment... build the perimeter, backfill the inside with sifted & graded crushed rock & sand. Maybe put down an occasional layer of cloth to stabilize it horizontally (knowing the cloth will eventually decay, but only really NEEDING it for stabilization during construction). Cast the next row of stones, move them horizontally into place, and backfill the interior up to the next level. Stir, rinse, and repeat until you're done. Modern retained-earth construction obviously goes quite a bit further, (like using steel cables to pull the retaining walls inward so they can be vertical instead of sloped, and using precast wall segments instead of casting them on-site), but the basic idea is the same.

    Moving big, heavy things HORIZONTALLY is fairly straightforward. So is moving crushed-rock cementious slurry up a hill in small buckets. If they're cast stone, the pyramids' construction basically just becomes a matter of having lots of money, immense HR management resources, and good supply-chain management.

    From what I've read, Egypt's antiquities ministry is part of the reason why relatively little is known about the "nuts and bolts" construction details of the pyramids. It WANTS to preserve the aura of mystery, because the official narrative drives tourism and brings enormous amounts of money into Egypt. From their point of view, the absolute WORST thing that could happen is if someone were to demonstrate that the pyramids were no more special than a random freeway embankment.

    1. Re:Cast in place? by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Except it is known the blocks used are quarried limestone and granite, not concrete.

    2. Re:Cast in place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well if you, the great Miamicanes, think they were cast on-site as a kind of concrete, that's obviously the most plausible explanation. Never mind all these "experts" with their "evidence".

    3. Re:Cast in place? by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

      > Except it is known the blocks used are quarried limestone and granite, not concrete.

      No, they've always been ASSUMED to have been quarried limestone and granite. About 10 years ago, someone analyzed a chunk of "stone" from one of the pyramids & discovered the same kind of bubbles you'd find in manmade cast stone.

      http://www.materials.drexel.ed...

      The conclusion of the above: the pyramids are a combination of cast and quarried stone... basically the lower stones were quarried, and the upper stones were cast... basically, they used quarried stone up to the point where it became more difficult/expensive to transport and lift the blocks into place, and used cast stone for the rest (because cast stone would have been too expensive to use for everything, so they only used it where they HAD to).

    4. Re:Cast in place? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      I think you're presuming technology neither known nor suspected to be in existence at the time the pyramids were built. Where's the (chemical) evidence that the stones aren't natural?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    5. Re:Cast in place? by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      You're confused, that's a paper on the "casing", the mostly removed covering that made them pretty and white and smooth at one time but no longer. What we see today is the core, which is quarried rock. Your paper is NOT about "how the pyramids were built" but only on how they were made pretty.

    6. Re:Cast in place? by Ramze · · Score: 5, Informative

      The granite is absolutely quarried. No one denies this. The limestone is debatable, but it matches what's found in a quarry in its consistency. The theory you mention is interesting, but it was mostly dismissed a decade ago.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The biggest problem with the theory is... it's limestone. Limestone is a sedimentary rock made from fossilized sea creatures, and it's loaded full of fossils. Pulverizing limestone to make a mixture to re-form into stone would destroy most of those fossils. The pyramids blocks are full of such fossils -- most tiny and in clusters, but some are quite large. That's why no one takes this limestone concrete theory seriously. It'd be impossible to have so many completely intact fossils -- some larger than an average sized hand -- embedded in the "concrete."

      While it's possible they had the technology to do it and maybe even used it in some areas, the evidence strongly suggests that at least most of the blocks were cut and hauled... just like the heavy granite stones.

    7. Re:Cast in place? by leretard · · Score: 1

      how the heck was this comment modded up?

      slashdot is getting dumber and dumber and dumber

      as everyone else has already said, the most cursory knowledge of geology refutes this idea

    8. Re:Cast in place? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      From what I've read, Egypt's antiquities ministry is part of the reason why relatively little is known about the "nuts and bolts" construction details of the pyramids. It WANTS to preserve the aura of mystery, because the official narrative drives tourism and brings enormous amounts of money into Egypt. From their point of view, the absolute WORST thing that could happen is if someone were to demonstrate that the pyramids were no more special than a random freeway embankment.

      I really doubt that your hypothesis, but I can think of a few reasons why Egypt's antiquities ministry might be blocking excavations.

      1. In the past, excavation sites have been pilfered.
      2. It takes money to excavate, secure, protect from the elements, display, catalog, and maintain artifacts.
      3. Most of the archeologists are foreigners. And when foreigners write your history, their narratives can be quite unflattering and even racist.
      4. The sites and artifacts could have been built by multiple civilizations, or multiple tribes, at different times. Admitting such things can be dangerous to a nation, because a neighboring country could claim to be descendants of that different civilization/tribe and lay claim to a piece of their land.
      5. Technology for archeology is still improving. When we look at archeologists of the past, we often see the damage their excavations created as criminal.
      6. If something is excavated and put into Egyptian museums, it risks being stolen, but it also risks being destroyed by Islamist fanatics.

    9. Re:Cast in place? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      that the blocks WEREN'T quarried, but are some form of manmade cast stone made from ancient concrete.
      Which would be obvious for even a layman like me by just looking at a stone.
      We know for certain from where the stones were quarried, that os easy to analyze.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:Cast in place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Holy crap. Are you kidding?

      You clearly have no experience in masonry or engineering.

      First, it is very easy to tell the difference between concrete and solid rock. There is no question -- except maybe among the flat-earth crowd -- that the pyramids were built from stone.

      Second, pyramids aren't retaining walls. You cannot construct them using the same techniques. A pyramid built the way you describe would not be structurally sound. The thing wouldn't have lasted four years, let alone 4,000.

      Maybe you should just leave the theorizing up to people who actually know something about the subject matter?

    11. Re:Cast in place? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      I live in Florida. My house sits on several feet of crushed limestone, with quite a few underground globs of waste cement (presumably whatever the construction workers dumped at the end of the day whenever they were doing concrete work). I dug up a bunch of the limestone boulders and concrete globs earlier this year while redoing my front yard's landscaping. After ~35 years underground, exposed to groundwater, plant roots, and everything else, the two can be pretty damn hard to tell apart... they've both been eroded by water, and many of the concrete globs have limestone with visible fossils embedded in them (presumably because the concrete was dumped onto a pile of rocks). In most cases, it's not at all obvious where the "real" rock ends and the hardened concrete glob begins.

      It's also noteworthy that the researchers pointed out that the concrete they believe the ancient Egyptians made would NOT have been like modern concrete -- it would have looked more like "natural" stone, because it would have contained much larger chunks of natural stone than modern concrete aggregate.

      As for lasting 4,000 years, remember... it would have been more like Roman concrete than modern portland cement-based concrete. Modern reinforced concrete depends upon embedded steel for tensile strength. The steel rusts, and the concrete eventually comes crashing down because it can't support its own weight without it. The Romans used concrete the same way they used cut stone (arches, vaults, etc). If the Romans had built hundred-foot spans of steel-reinforced concrete, they would have probably fallen apart long before the empire itself did.

      At the moment, both possibilities are still very much topics ripe for further research. Pretty much everyone agrees that at least some of the blocks were quarried, and there seems to be pretty good evidence that at least some of the blocks were cast on site.

      Is the theory a bit of a reach? Sure. So would have been telling a group of paleontologists in the 1950s that birds aren't distant just DESCENDANTS of dinosaurs... birds ARE dinosaurs. And T-rex had feathers.

    12. Re:Cast in place? by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      I live in Florida.

      Well, that explains a lot.

  23. Re:Fake News by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    Bozhe moy, you managed to pivot an article on ancient pyramids to arguments about the NFL! Well-played, comrade.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  24. Re:But by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    Just watch out when the impatient/overworked/stressed out alien parents show up to pick after their kids.

    Its not gonna be pretty.

    Yeah, we bitch about stepping on those damned legos all laying about. Wait 'til someone steps on a pyramid! It's all fun 'til someone gets hurt!

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  25. Re: But we can't dig a ditch for fiber to the home by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    Dude, you don't want what he's having. You really don't.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  26. Re:Alternate theory by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    You are right, but some were. There are other historical records.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  27. Egypt had no slaves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Especially important is the fact that Egypt did not use slaves for construction.

  28. Re:None of that explains the large cut stones by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    A small pickup is in the ton and a half range. But, point taken.

    In the past I think a lot of the guessing was by scientists that were not engineers.

    And then there was Erich von Däniken. Great fun for pubescent minds.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  29. Re:Fake News by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

    But they were (and still are, if they come over here) "African Americans"

  30. Re:Great. Now prove it. by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No...."Prove what was said in the papyrus can be done" was the challenge. All it takes is showing that it is physically possible.....you are asking a different question "Prove they did it". OK....The papyrus said so....that's all you get from archaeology.

  31. Seriously? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    I learned that almost five decades ago.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  32. Re:Fake News by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1, Informative

    You think Trump is a dangerous lunatic,

    Yes.

    in contrast to Obama,

    Yes.

    a sympathizer of Islam and communism.

    No.

    --

    Stephan

  33. Re:Fake News by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Whatever race they were, they were using slaves. We should hate the Egyptians solely because they used slavery.

    Well, Yul Brunner notwithstanding, the currently accepted theory is that the pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid labourers.

    --

    Stephan

  34. Re:Fake News by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually there is DNA evidence that the original founders of Egypt were Indo-European.

    Since Indo-European is a language, part of a cultural complex that spread over many different populations, I find that hard to believe. Do you have any reliable sources? Of course there is European DNA in Egypt - it was very much part of the Greek and Roman worlds. However, I'm not aware of any linguistic evidence for PIE ever playing a role in Egypt before Alexander's conquest.

    --

    Stephan

  35. Re:Fake News by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Informative

    Islam is not a threat. Extremist Islam is a threat, it's not the same thing. Extremist Christianity is a threat as well, like any extremist sect or ideology.

    I have not seen Obama being a communist sympathizer, though that's a phrase seldom heard these days, invented by the anti-commie extremist of Joe McCarthy who I thought was still dead.

    As for Trump, he's automatically dangerous because he's the president and is far more dangerous than any other single person in the US. He's also showing plenty of signs of being a lunatic; an out of control ego, and sees hallucinations of things that aren't there. Now putting his own personal foibles ahead of the good of the country isn't necessarily a sign of madness, it is more evidence of being dangerous. So, dangerous lunatic is not necessarily an incorrect description.

  36. Re:Great. Now prove it. by mikael · · Score: 1

    The hanging gardens of Babylon used Archimedes screws. Egyptians must have used water in order to keep the dust down and keep the workers hydrated as well as used them for canal boats.

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  37. That can only prove it's impossible. But .. by raymorris · · Score: 1

    You've heard the expression "in theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."

    Theoretical calculation can show why something is IMPOSSIBLE. It cannot show that there is no unforeseen, insurmountable impediment. Only actually doing it can prove that there is not anything that makes it impossible to actually do.

    Having said that, accomplishing each part, separately, is strong evidence that the entire process can be done. If people build appropriately sized canals in similar geography using only tools and technologies available to the ancient Egyptians, and they can (separately) build appropriate barges, and another group can move the blocks to where the barges would have been, it's reasonable to think they probably could have combined each of these steps.

  38. Re:Great. Now prove it. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Reading doesn't seem to be your strong suit

    He's not exactly Lord God King Writing either.

    Perhaps he's ... using .. speech to text ...... and he talks ... like Sha..................t...n....er.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  39. Re:Fake News by Scarletdown · · Score: 4, Informative

    There has been no historical or archeological evidence found that the Egyptians ever enslaved the Jews.

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
  40. Re:The pyramids were poured like concrete by blindseer · · Score: 2

    If they were poured, they wouldn't have chiseled tool marks on them. Duh.

    Have you ever poured concrete? I have. Sometimes the forms move on you, things break, and now you have a very hard material that has gone beyond the bounds of where you want it to be and you have to do something about it. What do you do? You get out some chisels and hammers. Today we'd use power saws, jackhammers, and so forth but the problem and solution is much the same.

    Again, as I recall the explanation on how the pyramids were built, is that it was a combination of quarried and poured blocks. Some of the stone was cut from a mine and moved to the site as a whole. The rest of the blocks were poured on site into forms. The material for the poured cement like material was likely from busted up pieces from the same mine that they got the whole stones. That means most any chemical, radiological, and such testing might not show which was poured and which was not. What would prove this theory is destructive testing, and that's not going to happen willingly. For that to happen we'd need something like an earthquake or meteor shower to hit the site and then someone look at the busted up pieces.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  41. Re:Great. Now prove it. by vtcodger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Water channels probably would work. However, there may be a bit of a problem. The Sphinx, pyramids, etc at Giza are built on top of a limestone plateau. It looks like the Giza Plateau is at least 30 meters (100feet) above the peak level of the Nile back in pre-Aswan Dam times. I would think that any system of engineering works capable of lifting boats, innumerable BIG rocks, and prodigious amounts of water up to the top of the plateau would have left some pretty obvious traces.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  42. intellectually brilliant by mcswell · · Score: 1

    Dr. Daniel Jackson isn't posting here any more.

  43. Re:Fake News by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

    So you're not disputing the dangerous lunatic part?

  44. Obelisks by q_e_t · · Score: 1

    I remember from about 15 years ago a documentary on putting up obelisks in which a number of archaeologists tried to do it as a practical demonstration. They tried elaborate schemes with sand running out of boxes and so on. The foreman of the team of hired help that constructed these things begged to be allowed to try his own method, and on the last day he was allowed to try. He built an A frame and a few other bits and with his team of men it took them half an hour once that was constructed. It shows the value of practical experience. So in this case it would be good to get some engineers skilled in hydrology, construction, shipping, etc., with good practical experience to look over the evidence in the diary and see if they could come up with a suitable way of implementing what it hints at (I imagine given the expense you'd have to simulate it in silico, though) to see if it makes sense. That sounds like it would be a really fun research project.

    1. Re:Obelisks by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Did they make the A frame too narrow the first time, but got it right the second? I think I saw that one. It sticks because I thought "that A frame looks too narrow!"

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  45. Re:Fake News by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    They must have had help from white people.

    It's a good thing, then, that Egyptians themselves are significantly Europoid, right?

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  46. Re:Fake News by q_e_t · · Score: 1

    Actually there is DNA evidence that the original founders of Egypt were Indo-European.

    Since Indo-European is a language, part of a cultural complex that spread over many different populations, I find that hard to believe. D

    The term Egypt is complex, as there were multiple kingdoms in both time and geography. That's not surprising as we are talking of a period of thousands of years, and the borders of European countries have been fluid over even the last 200, let alone the classic pharonic period of over time times that.

  47. Re:You're missing the whole point by EvilAlphonso · · Score: 2

    The point is that indeed there must have been some pretty sophisticated tools at work, well beyond what is attributed the ancient peoples.

    The mystery is NOT whether ancient peoples moved large blocks, but rather HOW they did so without sophisticated setups that they weren't supposed to have known about.

    Even stranger is the fact that the oldest structures (some perhaps much older than has been attributed) seem to be the grandest and most perplexing.

    The mystery is: What kinds of technology did the ancients actually have, and why did they seem to lose their knowledge of these things.

    The thing about ancient civilizations is that their collapse buried technology/knowledge that then get discovered again centuries or millennia later. Writing was discovered, lost, rediscovered... probably a few times. Most likely because reading and writing wasn't wide-spread in the society, but only in a specific class. If our civilization was to collapse tomorrow, I'm relatively confident that it wouldn't regress too much as literacy is more widespread in our civilization than in any before and we still have repositories of knowledge in printed form. The same thing happened with steam power (between Hero of Alexandria and 1606's Spain), mechanical computing devices (between the Antikythera device and the Pascaline in 1642) and even some simpler/humbler tools.

    I'm going to use the woodworking hand-plane as an example... it's a simple family of tools that quickly adjust the size, flatten, shape or finish the surface of wood. A properly setup smoothing plane can adjust the dimensions by increments of a thousandth of an inch, scrub planes can take off chunks of an eighth of an inch. The hand plane is believed to have originated in ancient Egypt as a jig to hold either an adze blade or a chisel at a constant angle to the piece being worked. During medieval times, and up to the mid 19th century, they were a block of wood with a channel carved through it to hold the plane blade in the correct position (secured with a wedge). In the 19th century, 3 new designs of the tool were invented: metal-bodied planes, transitional planes (wood sole, metal holding/adjustment) and infill planes (wooden body, clad in metal). However, digs in Pompeii and other big Roman sites have brought up both metal-bodied and infill planes from the Roman era. So it's another relatively simple tech that was lost and rediscovered.

    The only non-trivial change in woodworking tools between the Egyptians and now is that we have motorized most of the tools in order to speed up the process. If you remove the power tools from the equation, we're not even at the peak of the tool design. The peak in design happened between the 17th and the 19th centuries, and modern non-power tools are either copies of those designs (with better materials) or functionally inferior to those designs.

  48. Re: Fake News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Is the Torah of so little historic value to you? You sound like an anti-semite.

  49. Re:Fake News by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Of course there is European DNA in Egypt - it was very much part of the Greek and Roman worlds.

    Given Cleopatra's relationship to Julius Caesar this statement is true in several ways.

  50. i read a book by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    I read they were moved using an alien transportation system powered by the Sun's harmonics. The book had equations and everything.

  51. alternative theory by cellocgw · · Score: 1

    Dunno why my idea never caught on :-) .

    Ask any sculptor, and they'll say "take a block of wood/stone and remove everything that doesn't look like a [final object].

    Clearly the Egyptians set up a gigantic block of stone and then carved away everything that didn't look like a stepped pyramid.

    Waiting for my Nobel Prize..

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  52. Re:Great. Now prove it. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

    It is actually well known that they used a sand ramp circling around the pyramid, which had a center made of mud (here comes your water) and round logs.
    The workers were mostly hydrated with beer, well,during work time probably more with water or thinned down beer.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  53. Re:Great. Now prove it. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    The Sphinx (face) is _carved_ out of a rock. It was a huge rock just sitting there and they cut away the outside rock to carve the figurine.
    The rest, like legs etc. are made from relatively small bricks.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  54. Re:Alternate theory by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Yes and no.
    Strictly speaking ancient Egypt had no slaves.
    On the Pyramids only free men worked.
    In the quarries however also convicted criminals.
    The only slaves usually where prisoners of war, who worked everywhere but not on pyramids, and got released into freedom when they spoke enough Egyptian to settle down or to go home.
    There are "ceremonial slaves" like the Eunuchs in old China.

    The only other way to fall into slavery was huge debts, which could made you a slave to your creditor.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  55. Re:The pyramids were poured like concrete by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    That means most any chemical, radiological, and such testing might not show which was poured and which was not.
    You don't need an analysis to see if a stone us poured.
    You see that with blank eye.

    It is extremely unlikely that the Egyptians used poured blocks. If they had: we had literature about it. Like we have about basically everything covering their lives.
    And we probably had ruins of stuff that *obviously* used pouring techniques.

    If you can make poured blocks, it would make much more sense to simply use pouring to make big structures instead of pouring blocks on site and then moving them just like you move the chiseled blocks.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  56. Re:Fake News by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

    Aside from the off-color humor, Cleopatra was greek (ptolomy dynasty) and lived closer to our time than the time when those pyramids were built - they were already 3000 years old when she was alive, 2000 years ago.

    Yes, the pyramids really are that old.

    Yes Egypt has been invaded by many groups.

    No, we don't know much about the ethnicity or culture of the time when they were built.

    Yes, Subsaharan Africa had some extremely advanced cultures and kingdoms - and did so right up to about the 15th century when the Portuguese systematically flattened just about every coastal city they could locate.

  57. Re:The pyramids were poured like concrete by blindseer · · Score: 1

    If you can make poured blocks, it would make much more sense to simply use pouring to make big structures instead of pouring blocks on site and then moving them just like you move the chiseled blocks.

    The blocks where not moved once poured, they were poured in place. The theory is that many of the blocks were quarried and moved to the site. When carrying the large blocks became difficult, or they wanted a smooth surface to work with, they would pour the blocks in place. Sometimes the blocks poured in place would have to be trimmed to allow for the placement of carved blocks, and that would mean chiseling into the poured block.

    You don't need an analysis to see if a stone us poured.
    You see that with blank eye.

    You are correct, the evidence of poured blocks can be plainly seen. I was mistaken before on the need to crack open blocks to see this, there are already damaged blocks showing evidence of being poured in place.

    It is extremely unlikely that the Egyptians used poured blocks. If they had: we had literature about it. Like we have about basically everything covering their lives.
    And we probably had ruins of stuff that *obviously* used pouring techniques.

    We do have literature about it. There's also a lot of literature on the use of carved blocks. Building these pyramids took decades and it is not inconceivable that the building techniques changed over that time, so early documentation may not have this technique because they didn't use it then. There is an obvious line in the blocks where the construction quality improved. This is where they shifted from only carved blocks to a combination of carved blocks moved to the site and blocks poured in place. The poured blocks can be seen in between carved blocks, where they fit so tightly that they could not be made any other way.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  58. Re: Fake News by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

    Trump acting to silence them is, imo, crossing the line. The constitution protects us from the government. This wouldn't be a big issue out trump didn't fan the flames

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  59. Re:The pyramids were poured like concrete by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Sorry, it is extremely obvious that they never used any pouring techniques.
    A) no literature
    B) no poured building parts of ordinary architecture (temples, walls)
    C) no poured blocks, or what ever, in the pyramids

    If you can prove otherwise, I'm sure you get a Nobel Prize.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  60. Re: Fake News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So all religions are equal for you? You seem like a cultural relativism.

    For me, as well as for Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Douglas Murray, and many more, Christianity is a better religion because Jesus was a hippie, while Mohammed was a warlord who had a child bribe. Both prophets are seen as the perfect man by their followers.

    Who is a better man for you, Jesus or Mohammed?

    Would following one or the other makes you a better person and if so, which one?

    Also, check this out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D8tFH5yIvsQ

    Even moderate Muslims admit you are wrong.

  61. Re:Fake News by terjeber · · Score: 2

    Nope, the Jews were never captives in Egypt. That's all myth.

  62. Re:Great. Now prove it. by stephanruby · · Score: 1

    You mean like these traces?

    http://sentinelkennels.com/Res...

  63. Re:Fake News by wisdom_brewing · · Score: 1

    Extremist Buddhism is terrifying...

  64. Re:Alternate theory by houghi · · Score: 1

    And they where better paid than workers now. (OK, not that difficult to do)

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  65. Re:Fake News by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    What BLM wants is basically for the existing laws to be enforced. The perception is that a police officer can kill a black person at will and get off without serious punishment. There have been plenty of highly visible examples, although I don't know how the stats actually work out.

    This is complicated because the lack of enforcement is within the justice system, for the most part. Grand juries did not indict in some egregious cases. Juries tend to find the police not guilty, no matter what the circumstances. BLM wants this to change.

    (This is why I'm not keen on jury nullification. It can really easily turn into a system of oppression for a disfavored group, when crimes against that group go unpunished.)

    In this country, a jury trial is necessary to convict someone of a serious crime, and so this is going to be a matter of changing how juries think. BLM therefore needs publicity, preferably not of the violent kind, and the NFL protest is an excellent way to do it from their point of view. They also need to publicize every Tamir Rice or Philandro Castile case, to get people thinking that the outcomes may be wrong.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  66. Re: Fake News by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    They even get free bullets, courtesy of the local police departments.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  67. Re:Fake News by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    "Slavery" doesn't have a single meaning. Some systems weren't all that harsh, some were horrifying.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  68. Re:Fake News by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Indo-European is a language family, which Egyptian of whatever period doesn't belong to. How do you label DNA as Indo-European?

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  69. Re:Great. Now prove it. by mikael · · Score: 1

    I read they worked from 7am to 11am and 1pm to 5pm. Sunrise and sunset at the equator are at 6am and 6pm, with a sharp change from night-time to day-time. Noon-time is too hot to work, so they would have lunch then. There were studies on the food consumption; beer and bread. They actually optimized these two processes by noticing that the lightly baked dough was also used to make the beer mash, and that the froth from the beer went back into the dough.

    http://www.aeraweb.org/lost-ci...

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  70. Re:Great. Now prove it. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Well, the Pyramids are quite far away from the equator.
    But you are right in principle.
    Through the middle ages we had the same dough/yeast trading in Germany. Most german countries had laws that required bakeries to take/buy the yeast left overs from breweries. No idea how that actually worked out, as the amount of yeast a brewery is producing is enormous!

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  71. Re:Great. Now prove it. by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

    Dumb fuck...... "proved it can be done" is exactly what physics does. "Prove it was possibly something that was done" is what the fucking papyrus does. and literally....that is all you get from Archaeology.

  72. Re:Great. Now prove it. by narcc · · Score: 1

    Dude, you said something incredibly stupid. Then completely failed at reading.

    Let it go. You'll feel better. Dwelling on your failures just isn't healthy.

  73. That's not the MAIN mystery! by iq145 · · Score: 1

    They answered the easy part about how they moved the bricks horizontally. So how did these cavemen move them vertically to build something that tall?