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Ask Slashdot: What Is Your Favorite William Gibson Novel?
dryriver writes: When I first read William Gibson's Neuromancer and then his other novels as a young man back in the 1990s, I was blown away by Gibson's work. Everything was so fresh and out of the ordinary in his books. The writing style. The technologies. The characters and character names. The plotlines. The locations. The future world he imagined. The Matrix. It was unlike anything I had read before. A window into the far future of humanity. I had great hopes over the years that some visionary film director would take a crack at creating film versions of Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive . But that never happened. All sorts of big budget science fiction was produced for TV and the big screen since Neuromancer that never got anywhere near the brilliance of Gibson's future world. Gibson's world largely stayed on the printed page, and today very few people talk about Neuromancer, even though the world we live in, at times, appears headed in the exact direction Gibson described in his Sprawl trilogy. Why does hardly anybody talk about William Gibson anymore? His books describe a future that is much more technologically advanced than where we are in 2017, so it isn't like his future vision has become "badly dated." To get the conversation going, we rephrased dryriver's question... What is your favorite William Gibson novel?
As much as I like the genre, I think they are all bad.
I wish someone would turn Neuromancer into a film, it would be far better than a lot of the garbage we get at the cinema these days.
The movie is good too.
In a slight departure from his sci-fi novels, I really like the plot and character development of Pattern Recognition.
I know the neuromancer and the bridge triology and like both. Perhaps the Bridge triology is a bit better because the scenarios described are more plausible, as is the character of Chevette in "Virtual Light".
Then again, in the neuromancer triology all three books where quite memorable, whereas Idoru was sort of meh IMHO.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
But Neuromancer is one of my favorite books,
He has not made one dud book and if I was to choose one to be best I would say The Peripheral but I could change my mind in 2018.
Please keep writing Bill.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I am really enjoying not reading a William Gibson novel right now. Thus, my favorite is None. I hope to continue to enjoy not reading William Gibson for a while. He is indeed one of my favorite authors for not reading.
Bruce Perens.
Also, I'd like to throw in Phillip K. Dick into the same mix. I recently read some of his books for the first time and I'm amazed how much the state of the art in Sci-Fi has advanced since the time of trashy novels.
What is your favorite William Gibson novel?
Who?
Actually, although I wouldn't have been able to place the author's name, I did consider reading Neuromancer when I came across it, many years back. Didn't do so, but I might pick it up, now that I've been reminded.
Mona Lisa Overdrive is my second favourite book of all time (after Lord of the Rings.) He's the only author I haven't read my daughter because I want her to read him herself when she's old enough to appreciate his unique writing style.
Johnny Mnemonic with Kaenu Reeves is kind of that :
it's an adaptation of a Gibson's short story that introduce the universe and a few characters that Gibson will later use for its Sprawl trilogy.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Yeah. There isn't a single wasted word, it's poetry in prose form, it still feel visionary three decades later and although his later work is excellent it can't quite match this.
Although if you include short stories, Johnny Mnemonic is at least as good.
He's a science fiction author that wrote one of the most influential books of the last century.
His material is available from all good bookstores and several bad ones, check him out.
Great story and I found nearly every paragraph could be isolated like a very deep poem.
I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been mentioned.
At the bottom of the page I see today's fortune is ""The Street finds its own uses for technology." -- William Gibson" which sounds too perfect of a coincidence.
Elen sìla lùmenn' omentielvo
"Three megabytes of hot RAM"
Time to revisit the works of Gibson.
Another piece of work that might have inspired Gibson is Max Headroom.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Like here: https://www.sfbok.se/forfattar...
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Burning Chrome
(atmospheric lead-in)
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cyberpunk/comments/3s4xju/the_sky_above_the_port_was_the_color_of/
Artificial intelligence is the study of how to make real computers act like the ones in the movies.
You're so cute. Which is your favourite Gibson book though?
I know. I mean, it's not like even Wikipedia has an entire section devoted to his influence.
Oh, wait.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
This was the book that opened my eyes to reading novels in the language they were written in. "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel" just doesn't translate that well...
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
That quote is the opening sentence of Neuromancer, not Burning Chrome.
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Also, while he didn't invent the term, it is universally agreed that he popularized the term "cyberspace."
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Neuromancer will always be a standout piece of speculative fiction and iâ(TM)ll always love it. His newer works are probably âoebetterâ and more nuanced. The wilder dystopias traded for something far more familiar (but still dysfunctional in their own ways). Pattern Recognition is great and a roughly contemporary story. The Peripheral a good mix of both (though perhaps an increasingly uncomfortable one given what has happened in the world since it was written). Not sure I particularly want any of them turned into movies though.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
The real world tech we have satisfies his vision. It was interesting before the tech we have today. If someone projects the automobile, it is interesting. If the automobile surrounds us, it isn't.
E Proelio Veritas.
The opening line of Neuromancer: "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." I mean, why not say the sky was a clear, bright, uniform blue? :-P
- Tal Cohen
His shorts stories were better than his novels. The early novels, especially, contained far too much filler in order to stretch out what was really a novella into commercial length.
Among his short stories, I think Hinterlands is still one of the best bits of any sort of fiction I've read.
maybe because of the 'young kid turns into bad ass by hanging out with elite' classic structure that Gibson has brilliantly spared himself from in all his others...
I'm a huge fan of Gibson, re-read the sprawl three times, always sucks me in in a few lines.
I agree. My previous favorite was Mona Lisa Overdrive, but the early ones seem a little dated now. The Peripheral combines Gibson's energetic writing with the benefit of 30 more years of tech progress to draw on. Nice social constructs like the aunties and the jackpot.
IIRC the story goes that Gibson walked out of Blade Runner (original 1982 version) after 20 minutes, because "it was too much like the inside of my head".
So Syd Mead had some concept of that world.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
Off topic a bit, but I noticed that on Amazon, Burning Chrome is cheaper as a paperback than the Kindle version.
I'm seeing $9.49 for the Kindle and $8.11 for the paperback. As a Prime member, shipping is $0.00.
https://www.amazon.com/Burning...
Trees would seem to be more expensive that bits down the wire. Dystopia.
BlameBillCosby.com
For a long while it was Neuromancer, if for no other reason than that opening line, and the overall tone and mood. Good science fiction? No. Beautiful prose, definitely.
The Blue Ant trilogy, including Spook Country, took the lead not too long ago. Solid writing, better story, still just on the cusp of our world.
But the Peripheral is damned brilliant. Wild-ass SF ideas, great writing, probably one of my favorite books of all time.
Design for Use, not Construction!
this is the man that helped coin the term cyberspace. His influence with just this series alone can directly be seen in movies like the Matrix and The Lawnmower Man (the movie, not the Stephen King novel), as well as manga/anime such as Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop. so much of his futuresight is intertwined with modern pop culture and we don't even consciously know about it.
List all William Gibson books and let people vote!
Validation-by-wikipedia-article-size doesn't work.
There are hundreds of obscure garage bands with substancial wiki articles that eclipse their actual music.
I am starting to think Gibson may be a coming-of-age fan phenomenon. I was already an adult when hisvwork started being hyped. I was already more familiar than he was with all the tech he name-dropped. I suspect a LOT of us nerds on Slashdot who are old enough would agree.
Gibson famously uses only a manual typewriter. He was a hipster before it was cool to be a hipster. Shrug.
Many of us were already pretty sick of the term 'cyberspace' by the time Gibson popularized it.
He has a rep with parts of the nerd community of being somebody who traffics in terminology to build a rep.
The hipster deal, really.
Love Neuromancer.
I also really love the short stories Burning Chrome and New Rose Hotel.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
I would rather even read 'The Big U'. Because even when he was green and just starting out, Stephenson could write a good nerd-genre book that is more fun to read than anything by Gibson.
Yes, I have a paperback of ' The Big U' from before Stephenson allowed it to be reprinted. It has always been a fun read.
Gibson is a hipster like you, too. He publicly proclaims that he writes on a manual typewriter. I would bet that it doesn't even use a 'cartridge' style ribbon.
Lots of us have many, many paper books. We don't consider it noteworthy, though.
So using a typewriter makes one "a hipster, shrug"?
I come here for the love
He's a science fiction author that wrote one of the most influential books of the last century.
His material is available from all good bookstores and several bad ones, check him out.
Wow, that's high praise. Assuming Neuromancer is the book you're referring to, where do you place it on the most influential list and why? I could assume for coining the term 'cyberpunk' or something along those lines. IMO there's a case for most influential in the SciFi realm but overall... that covers a lot of ground.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Bullshit. You claim you were using the word "Cyberspace" in 1982? Not only using it, but seeing so much of it that it sickened you? Sorry, that's just hard to believe.
Enigma
. I was already more familiar than he was with all the tech he name-dropped. I suspect a LOT of us nerds on Slashdot who are old enough would agree.
Which tech did he name-drop that you were familiar with?
I mean, he's never been deeply into technology anyway, he's far more interested in people and their environments. But still, since you're suggesting his work is derivative, I'm curious to hear how.
I am starting to think Gibson may be a coming-of-age fan phenomenon.
I disagree. The writing is still sublime, the books are interesting and fun to read and they continue to explore a coherent future world. The plot of Neuromancer remains fairly unique, albeit at times simplistic.
Shit, you may as well suggest that HMS Ulysses by Alistair MacLean is a coming-of-age fan phenomenon too, or Archangel by Gerald Seymour. These aren't crusty classics like Jane Eyre or Anna Karenina, these are beautifully written human stories.
https://moviepilot.com/posts/2... touches on a few of the things he's influenced, and links to https://www.theguardian.com/bo... which discusses others.
The Guardian to appear to have actual love for him though - see the opening paragraph of https://www.theguardian.com/bo...
But even if you're right and he's of an era, that doesn't detract from the tremendous influence he's had on science fiction, media and the Internet - even before he used it.
Clearly the word popularize doesn't mean what you think it means. And no, it wasn't a commonly used word in the early 80s. You are simply full of shit.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Well, he's not exactly Orwell or Solzhenitsyn and a lot of people haven't read him because "ugh, science fiction" but the development of the Internet and pop culture since Neuromancer has drawn heavily on his writing.
where do you place it on the most influential list and why?
Good question. I suspect I'm not widely enough read to create a sensible looking list - and sadly I fear I'm rather better read than many.
I dumped a text file of Neuromancer off a Gopher server way back. Sorry, Bill, I never bought a copy. It seemed meta at the time.
But it is still prophetic.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, by Philip K Dick
But seriously, I read Neuromancer for the first time ~8 years back, and it came across as visionary for the period in which it was released. That is to say, it was kind of a slog to read now, and most everything new in it has been done to death since. Maybe his other stuff holds up more? Maybe I was in a weird headspace and I'd like it a lot more if I re-read it?
I tried reading Snow Crash as well, by Neal Stephenson, and distinctly thinking "This would have been revolutionary to read back in the 90s". Reading it nowadays, it seems more tired and silly.
Dick, though, holds up really well, despite being a lot older. So if you're a freak like me who questions the premise of this article, and you haven't read his stuff, give it a shot :)
A quick search turns up no less than the follow authors of the 20th century - F. Scott Fitzgerald - George Orwell - James Joyce - John Steinbeck - Ernest Hemingway - Jack Keruoac Where would you place Gibson on that list? That's just to name a few...
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
My beige Correcting Selectric II mocks you. As does my Hooverometer. Anyone can wield a hand cycle wheel nto even knowing what the degree marks would be used for. Fixing stuff seems to be going out of vogue too quickly.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I think I like that one best too. As I recall, "steampunk" wasn't even a thing yet when that came out. But perhaps it helped that Bruce Sterling was involved, to keep things from getting too abstract with just Gibson alone.
And Jean-Michel Jarre's Revolutions makes a great soundtrack to read it by. Lots of steam and brass.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Did he mean static or the blue color that VCRs would put on when they can't find a signal? Actually, I think he wrote that before the VCR blue screen was a thing.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
I read a lot of SF and Fantasy, so I feel little shame in saying I've read no Gibson outside of Neuromancer.
It was OK I suppose. But I wasn't really fond of his protagonist. Dude wasn't sympathetic at all, and in the end I just did not like him. I think I would have enjoyed it more if he'd written it from the point of view of his female bodyguard. Also his universe was dystopian and ugly. I already have one ugly dystopia narrated by people I don't like, I don't need more when I go to read.
OTOH, if that is your kind of thing, I'd suggest picking up Charlie Human's Apocolypse Now Now. Human can at least write a bastard narrator that I still somehow want to follow.
Well, he's not exactly Orwell or Solzhenitsyn and a lot of people haven't read him because "ugh, science fiction" but the development of the Internet and pop culture since Neuromancer has drawn heavily on his writing.
where do you place it on the most influential list and why?
Good question. I suspect I'm not widely enough read to create a sensible looking list - and sadly I fear I'm rather better read than many.
Fair answer. And most likely you are better read than most, unless we include social media. Then I'm afraid... :-)
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
In the Burning Chrome Anthology, this short story, of all of Gibson's work, had a greater impact on my research than any other story he wrote.
He only co-wrote it too. It was written by Michael Swanwick and William Gibson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
I read all of William Gibson's books from Neuromancer all the way through All Tomorrow's Parties, and I gave the hell up. None of them even approach the quality of Neuromancer. The only one that was any good at all was Idoru, and that was no Neuromancer.
At this stage I am convinced that William Gibson didn't actually write Neuromancer, at least not on his own. I think, at best, it was a joint project with John Shirley and Bruce Sterling, and Gibson himself may or may not have been involved.
I forget myself, but that's an awesome picture!
I couldn't remember the name of the book or the author. When I searched for Neuromancer, The Difference Engine was on the list. So, this would be my current favorite by William Gibson. I have Neuromancer on hold at the library and will read it soon.
Why is Orwell overrated? He's widely studied in English classes. You may not like his writing but that doesn't make him overrated.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Assuming you're serious, he's authored a novel (Neuromancer ) in the early beginnings of the Internet (1984 to be precise) that is widely credited for starting cyberpunk. It should hold a place in 'must reads' of SciFi IMO. Assuming your're not serious, he's an author who wrote and starred in the Mad Max movies.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
His ideas outstrip his writing, and when you get right down to it, those ideas tend to be rather obvious.
He's a pamphleteer disguised as a novelist, and his work would have been better shorter.
High school English classes. There's a lot of mediocre literature that gets studied in high school English classes, because 13 year olds need to be hit over the head with the idea of literature.
I don't think Orwell is terrible, I just think he's overrated.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Not just the short itself (which is so excellent that it is how i explain the genre to friends) ; but the collection of the same name explored a variety of different cyberpunk realities. I really loved Dogfight, (the one about underground drone fighting) and New Rose Hotel is a thrill.
Almost every book is overrated. Ever read Moby Dick? Overrated garbage. How about The Great Gasby? Samething, over rated trash.
Point being, I have yet to read any book that lives up to the fan devotion or the hype.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I only read _Pattern Recognition_ and it sucks
that i liked them all, but it's been 20-odd years since i've read them, i've been meaning to revisit.....
maybe this is my sign that it's time...
hhmmm.... curious. I've been reading science fiction since the 60's. I have a personal library of over 700 novels, plus what I've borrowed from public libraries, and I've never heard of this Gibson character.
Sounds like you are either Russian reading Russian sci-fi, a troll, or both.
Neither is overrated. Well, maybe Great Gatsby, a little bit.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Neuromancer by far. I read many other (Mona Lisa Overdrive, Virtual Light, The Difference Engine and others) but Neuromancer was the most visionary I think.
Agrippa, a short story, is fascinating to read. I read just an ordinary text version I found online a decade or so ago but IIRC Gibson originally wanted it released on a floppy disk that would erase itself after it was read once (you'll have to read the story to understand why). The whole concept was very inventive.
I chose to end my comments, not with a rim shot, but a long decaying F#7sus4
I agree. Always been my favorite.
First thing I thought when I saw the new one was "Oh finally someone to direct Neuromancer."
Agreed. I'll probably muck this up, but "The sky above Chiba was the color of an untuned television..." absolutely FLOORED me the first time I read it. The book just has such a great plot. I'm REALLY surprised someone hasn't done a film of it yet, though if they ever do, I PRAY they do it right!!!
Orwell and Solzhenitsyn are both overrated. Especially Orwell.
Wow. You and Josef Stalin think very much alike.
Well, it is a pretty dumb topic for slashdot. More appropriate to a blog or the old usenet. There's no news here and all the nerd stuff is implausible handwaving.
I would much, much prefer John Brunner's The Shockwave Rider if I wanted to cite a novel that preshadows.
And Brunner is a real full-time Science Fiction writer who anybody who reads SF would recognize. Not an 'honorable mention' type who people say writes 'literature' like Gibson.
If you haven't' read The Shockwave Rider, what are you waiting for? Go out and find a copy.
I can see your points. re: overrated, I feel the same way about Ayn Rand.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Ashamed to admit I've never heard of him and I've been reading Sci Fi / Fantasy for going on 40 years. I'll check it out soon.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Yeah they are. Both are highly overrated. Mostly they are over rated by ether high school or college literature professors. Who themselves are often over rated. Which of course leads to these professors trying to force this dreck down entire generations of students who couldn't give a shit. No wonder reading sucks among the young.
Let the children read what they want to read. Who gives a shit if a bunch of teenage girls are reading about sparkly vampires? At least they are reading.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I mean, he's never been deeply into technology anyway, he's far more interested in people and their environments.
And that's the problem. Because all of the science is wrong and the use of technology is implausible, Gibson's books are fantasy, not futurism or science fiction.
but the development of the Internet and pop culture since Neuromancer has drawn heavily on his writing.
So sort of like Kim Kardashian greatly influencing the internet and pop culture?
Have you ever stopped to think that the problem is you? If every book is overrated, then maybe you're the one who just doesn't understand.
M favourites are:
Johnny Mnemonic and Virtual Light
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Yikes. You have missed out. His style is pulp and very easy to read. He weaves interesting worlds. I would start with Burning Chrome rather than Neuromancer though - it is a collection of short stories including the genesis of The Sprawl, which is the setting for the Neuromancer / Count Zero / Mona Lisa trilogy.
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Doubtful. I simply pointed out that every book rarely meets the hype that is given to it. But just because a book is over rated, doesn't mean its a bad book.
The Harry Potter books as an example. Once you get around the fact that the main character is a complete idiot then the rest of the books are not that bad. Do they rate the lavish worship fans seem to give them? Well to the fans maybe but over all, no the don't.
My favorite books are the Harry Dresden books. But even I can see that the books follow the same basic formula from book to book. I'm waiting for Peace Talks to come out and I can probably build a check list on how it will go. I'm still going to read it.
Here. If you like a book read it but don't read it because of the hype. If you do, you will probably be disappointed.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Not quite right. The main thing about Gibson's stories is they're written from the view of secondary characters, the "main story" happens to the other characters, often hidden. Once you realise that it makes thing clearer.
It's not how you expect stories to be written, but it can be effective. There's a Young Adult book called "Me, Earl, And The Dying Girl" like that, the entire story is about Earl and how the "dying girl" (Rachel) forces him to sort his life out, and the book's narrator (Greg) is completely unaware of all of that. (the book was made into a movie, but had to follow the Hollywood formula, so was refocussed - still a good movie of its type, but I missed the book's twist)
Orwell is a must read in Germany in german classes, too. ...
After all, that third reich thing and WWII
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
How did this discussion become about "the children"? At some point in an education, it's worth reading something that you wouldn't have picked off the shelf yourself. If I hadn't been forced to read books, I'd still only be reading Mad Magazine and comic books.
Nobody decides all on their own that they're going to read the classics of literature. I know you SJWs don't like books by dead white men, but reading them will enrich your life and provide you with a level of cultural understanding that will allow you to branch out.
You are welcome on my lawn.
See, I feel the other way about Ayn Rand. Her writing outstrips her ideas, to me. She tries way too hard to convince the reader of her rather naive ideas, but she does it so beautifully it makes up for the ideas she trying to push.
I found that if I read her more like a fantasy novel (outside of current world behavior/expectations), I enjoyed her writing immensely.
For what itâ(TM)s worth, in the sci-fi realm, Enders Game (first) has my vote.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
Neuromancer is my favorite.
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
Also, he's a wizard with puns
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I thought about the Rand comment being the other way around, but as I post this I remember thinking her style read like a B Movie to me. Chalk it up to different ways to read the same story. Re: Enders Game, agreed! Great book.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Ha, I meant John Brunner. I've read Gibson (Neuromanacer), later than I should have considering I came of age during the initial cyber punk phase. I went through a period where I tried to read the 'Must Reads' of Sci-fi at one point.
Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Animal Farm was great. Concisely written, it was easy to write a high school book report on it. If it wasn't for 1984, we wouldn't have gotten 'Brazil'.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
You're going for a "light side of the force" / "dark side of the force comparison"?
That's my point. Animal Farm is young adult literature. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't rate the pantheon.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The Harry Potter books as an example. Once you get around the fact that the main character is a complete idiot then the rest of the books are not that bad.
Ah yes, fantasy... perhaps you'd enjoy a tale in which he has enough marbles to sort into Ravenclaw. The Magicians trilogy isn't half bad either.
...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
'Pattern Recognition' is a wonderful study in writing with the use of present-progressive tense and other techniques. "Pouring boiling water." I read it only recently and thought the references to 'video footage' being dispersed and discussed in 'chat rooms' was oddly old-hat for Gibson. Then I saw the publish date of 2003 - two years before YouTube.
How did this discussion become about "the children"? At some point in an education, it's worth reading something that you wouldn't have picked off the shelf yourself. If I hadn't been forced to read books, I'd still only be reading Mad Magazine and comic books.
It became about "the children" when I hijacked the discussion to suit my own agenda. Come on, this is slashdot, that is how these things happen.
I want to address one fallacy you have there. You are talking like reading comic books or Mad Magazine is a bad thing. I thought myself to read at age 6, yes I had help with the big words, so I could read Richie Rich comics. From there I picked up Xmen at issue 86, or abouts. It if wasn't for comics I would never have read the Original Phoenix Saga.
I still read comics but now I tend to read more manga than DC or Marvel. I like the facts that the stories in manga tend to have beginning and end. I'm reading Barakamon now. But have you checked out some of the comics they are making now? Sorry, they like to refer to them as "graphic novels" now.
My point is comics are a good stepping stone to reading. If it wasn't for Richie Rich I might never have become the avid reader I am. The first science fiction book I picked off a shelf and read was Voyage from Yesteryear by Jame Hogan. I still have a copy of it n my android tablet. I picked it up because it was on the book shelf next to the comic rack.
You are correct to a point about having someone pick something to read for you at some point in your education. I would expect in a college literature course because you usually have to sign up for such a course so you know what you are getting into. But not at the middle school or high school levels.
They have a classic crammed down their throat that they have little personal reference too. Imagine having Tolstoy shoved down throat at age 14. That would be enough to turn most readers off for good. Let the young read what appeals to them. Be it sparkly vampires, Enders Game, or Mad magazine. We need more readers in this world and less TV watchers.
You are also wrong about people reading classic literature on there own. I have read Tolstoy, Mark Twain, Louisa Alcott, and others because I wanted too. An I've read Moby Dick. An I'm far from a SJW.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
There is a world of literature that would be appropriate for 14 year-olds before Tolstoy. I remember having to read Shakespeare in freshman high school English and hating it before I loved it. I spent most of my working life teaching literature to college students (often undergraduates). You don't have to "shove" anything down anyone's "throat", but something as simple as a course requirement can turn out to be liberating for the student. I still get kids (now middle-aged) who write me on Facebook and thank me for exposing them to literature that they first found daunting.
Nobody wakes up one day and decides, "I'm going to read Tolstoy".
You are welcome on my lawn.
You never had to deal with my highschool literature teacher. Anything after 1850 was trash to her. I actually got my views on books in school from a lecture by Orson Scott Card.
I believe that your experience with Shakespeare might be exactly what I'm talking about. Did you love it after you read it or years later? After you had developed enough background in reading to understand it.
I have read Tolstoy.
I should have worded that differently to say "I am reading Tolstoy." I have been for the last 20 years, but making it through War and Peace is on my bucket list.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Everything before Spook Country.
No, William Gibson's work that defined what was to become the cyberpunk genre in no way had anything to do with the Hollywood Hack portrayal of a computer image done with Max Headroom. Max Headroom is to Gibson as a 10th grader's cartoon in the back of a binder is to a Freas or Frazetta illustration.
NRRPT/RCT
Gibson writes like a Monet.
Some prefer Vermeer
NRRPT/RCT
Immediately after finishing it. My high school freshman English teacher was thoughtful and showed us the music in the language, the subtle meanings. He was an interesting guy. I later learned that he quit teaching and became a stand-up comic. Best teacher I ever had.
This was when teachers could still smoke in the classroom (to give you an idea how old I am). He was sort of hippie-ish and would come to class, bushy black hair and beard, dark glasses, smoking like a chimney, and brought literature to life. I later identified his cologne as "Eau de Weed". I'm pretty sure my PhD in Literature and career as a professor were entirely his fault.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Boy, I was dead.
What's wrong with young adult literature? I'm currently re-reading Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy and it's excellent. It may be suitable for younger audiences but that doesn't stop it exploring complex themes or being extremely well written.
But Orwell was mentioned in the context of influence, and another of his books double plus qualifies.
I haven't read Fitzgerald for 30 years, Orwell is easily near the top of the list, Joyce is a pretentious shit, I've never read Steinbeck, Hemingway is tedious and I've never read Keruoac.
But your list is full of writers of "The Great American Novel" which is something I've never found engaging or enjoyed. I don't tend to do "meaningful" novels or "literature", I read books that are good to read.
Interesting that you listed no female authors. A strong influence as I entered my teens was Andre Norton, Anne Rice has astonishing sales and entire generations of Brits were brought up on Enid Blyton.
He's got to be pretty new at this or I surely would have heard of him (I have tapered off on my book buying in the last few years). If he isn't new then he certainly isn't as popular or influential as some folks would like to believe.
Six Hugo nominations (including a win), eight Nebula nominations (including a win) and multiple other awards suggest he's not entirely new or unknown. But don't feel ashamed, there are other authors also inducted into the Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame that I've never heard of, it's a big wide world out there.
It certainly is excellent. It's also much better writing than Orwell ever did.
I just said Orwell was overrated. Not that he wasn't influential. As I said, his ideas are profound, but as a writer he's mediocre. He's more agitprop than literature. That's why he's taught in high school: because it's hard to teach subtlety to 14 year-olds.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You're comparing social media writing (including Slashdot posting) with a coherent story with a beginning, middle, end and plot? Either you read some massively different social media to me (including Slashdot), or Gibson is an incredibly bad writer.
(I'll admit to having never knowingly read a word of Gibson's work - despite being an avid SF reader through 70s, 80s and 90s.)
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Sounds like it should be a compulsory read in America too - before it's banned and becomes an un-book.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
The Difference Engine, his collaboration with Neal Stephenson.
Holmes-era Scotland Yard employing a huge analog computer that runs on steam!