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Self-Driving Shuttle Involved In Crash Two Hours After Debut (www.cbc.ca)
New submitter Northern Pike writes: Las Vegas roll out of new driver-less shuttle spoiled by human error. It sounds like the shuttle did what it was designed to do but the human semi driver wasn't as careful. "The shuttle did what it was supposed to do, in that it's (sic) sensors registered the truck and the shuttle stopped to avoid the accident," the city said in a statement. "Unfortunately the delivery truck did not stop and grazed the front fender of the shuttle. Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has the accident would have been avoided." The self-driving shuttle can transport up to 12 people and has a attendant and computer monitor, but no steering wheel and no brake pedals. It relies heavily on GPS, electronic curb sensors and other technology to make its way.
I wonder if the shuttle doing the right thing was what the human driver expected.... maybe their algorithms are incompatible.
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That would be a better subject line. People end up having to read more to know that it wasn't the self-driving shuttle's fault. (and to many people don't read)
Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has the accident would have been avoided.
If the shuttle had the same sensing equipment as the truck has the accident would have been avoided (ftfy). A human would have laid into the horn as the truck got closer to alert him hes about to hit someone. A human would also have seen the truck backing in and yielded a larger room for error. An alert human may also see the situation that they could quickly back up a bit before the truck hit them. (per article trucker was cited for illegal backing (up?). This isn't ready in my opinion, but a nice alpha test though.
The victim self-driving shuttle bus didn't try to back away from being run over. According to reports, it couldn't for unspecified reasons. (I speculate that the autonomous logic or arrangement of sensors didn't adequately cover "going into reverse.")
Someone up-topic asked about sounding a horn. I haven't heard any press reporting that the autonomous vehicle tried.
Either case (if true) represent a difference between how the self-driving logic reacted and how a human driver would probably have. This tells me unless an autono-car can do everything a human driver can, at least as well as a human driver (admittedly a low bar), it shouldn't be on the streets. There will always be corner conditions; they have to be handled as well by the robot as they would be by a human.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
1) Robotic vehicles need a horn - and additional logic to handle when to sound it.
2) Robotic vehicles would benefit from the addition of a mechanical arm with a mechanical middle finger - for these sorts of post-accident situations.
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How many comments have I seen on Slashdot asking if all edge cases have *really* been tested? Well it turns out everyone was right in this case. I mean, was this AI tested on real streets at all? It's hard to imagine a car on the road for more than a month wouldn't have had a truck pull out in front of it unexpectedly a couple times. It doesn't matter how fast the AI brain is, this is a case where anticipation may have helped. I just feel bad for the truck driver. Yes, he was in the wrong but a lot of times driving a big truck you have to maneuver this way and rely on other cars working with you a little bit.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I don't think truck driving would be possible if they didn't bend the laws periodically. Driving a truck and maneuvering a huge vehicle into the nooks and crannies and blind spots where they put loading docks pretty much relies on humans using their heads and driving around them or waiting for them from time to time.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Yes, and EVERY AI just learned from that one incident to leave more space whereas every new human driver has to learn it for herself.
Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has the accident would have been avoided."
If the shuttle had a human driver the entire incident would never have happened because the half-assed excuse for 'AI' they keep trotting out can't actually THINK.
The rule of the road "the largest vehicle takes priority. So there's a pecking order of trucks >buses > Hackney Black Cab taxis > Mercedes > Mini Morris Minor > Reliant Robin > Motorcyclist > Cyclist > Pedstrian.
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Because if someone was injured in this accident, the no comms peopel would immediately shift into No True Scotsman mode.
So Trump's decision to remove the requirement is a death knell to the Autonomous driving initiative.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
> "The shuttle did what it was supposed to do, in that it's (sic) sensors registered the truck and the shuttle stopped to avoid the accident,"
Assuming the "goal" with driverless cars is to have a vehicle that can respond as a human might. To avoid the inevitable issues.
This bus failed miserably on two accounts.
First, if it were programmed more human like it would have blown its horn to warn the big rig. Failure #1.
Secondly, if it were programmed more human like it would have backed up to avoid the big rig. Failure #2.
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Iâ(TM)ve seen plenty of people do it. Whenever there is roadwork, accidents or people broken down or pulled over by cops, it seems people grind to a stop to see whatâ(TM)s going on. Also, deer, Iâ(TM)ve stopped plenty of times on highways for them.
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You are making the assumption that the situation allowed the truck to be caught in the vehicle's sensor in time to stop earlier; a physical change to the vehicle may be needed. Even if the bus could have stopped earlier, it now knows how to handle the specific situation of a truck coming slowly from the left, but will it handle slowly from the right, or slightly quicker from the left? How many other variables are there to this that will need to be specifically explained to a computer, and will the human programmers be able to account for every slight alteration that may also end up in an accident?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
You not only made it impossible to drive a large truck on 80% of city roads, but probably destroyed the economy as well.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
under posted speed limits should not be on the list! I can be unsafe to do the posted 55 on some roads.
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Look, we human drivers know how other human drivers are going to either break the law or cut corners in driving. We are able to anticipate and react correctly to avoid an accident as a result. These machines can't do that. They are developed in a perfect lab environment kind of thinking and they will never be able to be human enough to interact with humans in the real world situations that result from driving in the real world, not a software world. Driving is psychological as much as physical. If the machine had been driven by an experienced human driver I believe this accident would not have happened. For these machines to work the way they say they will all humans would have to be banned from the roads and everyone forced to use autonomous vehicles. To state the obvious: machines have no psychology, have no personality, have no human quirks and flaws.
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A large part of the fact that I've managed to avoid accidents for so long is the fact that, as a human, I understand how other humans are likely to act and react.
The problem with AI drivers is that humans only loosely follow the rules of the road; their actions are driven multiple influences, and understanding what another human is likely to do in any given situation requires being a human being. For example, consider the following:
I'm sure there are dozens of other similar cases, but you get the point. AI might understand, in the nominal sense, how to drive a car. What it can't understand is what other drivers are likely to do.
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I can switch lanes 5 times in heavy traffic (with my blinker) going the speed limit (everyone else going 5 under) and squeeze into (legal sized gaps) spaces.
Not in Germany.
Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has the accident would have been avoided.
If the shuttle had the same sensing equipment as the truck has the accident would have been avoided (ftfy). A human would have laid into the horn as the truck got closer to alert him hes about to hit someone. A human would also have seen the truck backing in and yielded a larger room for error. An alert human may also see the situation that they could quickly back up a bit before the truck hit them. (per article trucker was cited for illegal backing (up?). This isn't ready in my opinion, but a nice alpha test though.
Um maybe you don't know how to read. It's clearly ready. It just works in only this one highly specific scenario that requires a complete paradigm shift in how the world works to come true. That means ready.
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