Slashdot Mirror
iPhone Encryption Hampers Investigation of Texas Shooter, Says FBI (chron.com)
"FBI officials said Tuesday they have been stymied in their efforts to unlock the cellphone of the man who shot and killed at least 26 people at a church here on Sunday," reports the Houston Chronicle. Slashdot reader Anon E. Muss writes:
The police obtained a search warrant for the phone, but so far they've been unable to unlock it. The phone has been sent to the FBI, in the hope that they can break in... If it is secure, and the FBI can't open it, expect all hell to break loose. The usual idiots (e.g. politicians) will soon be ranting hysterically about the evil tech industry, and how they're refusing to help law enforcement.
FBI special agent Christopher Combs complained to the Chronicle that "law enforcement increasingly cannot get in to these phones."
A law professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology argues there's other sources of information besides a phone, and police officers might recognize this with better training. As just one example, Apple says the FBI could've simply just used the dead shooter's fingerprint to open his iPhone. But after 48 hours, the iPhone's fingerprint ID stops working.
FBI special agent Christopher Combs complained to the Chronicle that "law enforcement increasingly cannot get in to these phones."
A law professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology argues there's other sources of information besides a phone, and police officers might recognize this with better training. As just one example, Apple says the FBI could've simply just used the dead shooter's fingerprint to open his iPhone. But after 48 hours, the iPhone's fingerprint ID stops working.
Does Face ID work with corpses? Do you have to have eyes open?
If only there was some sort of Police Work that could be done to solve these crimes without taking away everyone rights of privacy...
Guy busted his kid's skull. Guy took weapons on base. Guy spent a year in the brig. Guy got dogs off Craigslist to shoot for target practice.
Guy was a major asshole with huge red flags over his head who should have been found and neutralized years ago. If only the Air Force had followed existing laws that would have prevented him from buying guns. But no, we need more gun control and backdoor encryption.
The phone? The fibbies knew there was a 48 hour timeout on the fingerprint thing. The fibbies knew without that they didn't stand a chance of getting into the phone (or they have a way in they don't want us to know about).
This is just the government narrative of "we have to have backdoor encryption cuz this dude".
We know the USAF gave him a minimum sentence for cracking his babies skull, did not give him a dishonorable discharge, and chose to protect this baby beater by not entering his information into the criminal database. If there is anything to investigate, it is whey the USAF protect wife and kid heaters. The USAF, in fact, could have put him in jail for fiver years, given him a dishonorable discharge, and made his crime public record. The reason that dozens of people are dead is because they chose not to.
The iPhone thing is just another effort to continue to erode our rights to privacy. It is not going to bring the dead back. It is not going to prevent the air force from releasing another trained killer, maybe this time a baby killer, back into society to murder even more people.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
And we have the right to keep and bear arms. So sayeth the Fourth Amendment.
So the FBI better come up with a different strategy than needing to be able to unlock everyone's phones. What do they think is on that phone anyway? I rather doubt Kelley kept anything interesting on his phone; maybe his Contact list? Then subpoena his call records from his phone company. If it was an iPhone it was probably sync'ed to the cloud; subpoena it from Apple.
FBI agents swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. Maybe they need to take an annual refresher oath to remind them of that.
The reaction of the right bothers me greatly when these incidents happen. It's incredibly illogical and harmful.
The fact is, the shooter managed to buy guns because he didn't disclose information for the background check, and that information wasn't otherwise available. He should have been unable to purchase guns on the basis that he had mental health issues, had escaped from a mental health facility, and had a history of violent behavior. Universal background checks are partly about requiring all firearm transfers and sales to be subject to the checks, and to expand the data used in conducting these checks. Those on the right complain loudly that this somehow violates their second amendment rights, even though these are reasonable measures to prevent gun violence. Plenty on the right refuse to consider any measure that would impose any type of additional restrictions on firearms because of their position that the second amendment is absolute.
Yet when it comes to our fourth and fifth amendment rights, and the right to privacy recognized by court decisions and justified by the ninth amendment, there's virtually no objection from the right. If you're so concerned about the second amendment, why the lack of any concern about the fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments being infringed? These demands by law enforcement are FAR more serious and infringing than universal background checks, banning bump fire stocks, or even extending many of the restrictions on fully automatic firearms to semi-automatic firearms. However, the right is mostly silent, minus the few libertarians who speak up on these issues.
If you're so concerned about any additional firearm restrictions infringing upon the second amendment, why the silence about infringing the fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments? The demands by law enforcement about encryption are far more dangerous and sweeping than any serious gun control proposals that have been put forth in the United States.
...that a well-regulated militia would have denied this stone-bonker a gun.
This sig left unintentionally blank.
First of all, a search warrant is not required to search the property of someone who is dead, because a dead person is not a natural person with defensible rights.
Second of all, Apple encryption is not hampering the investigation, because there is nothing new to be learned from whatever is on the iPhone. We know he did it. Why he did it is completely irrelevant and immaterial. It is not necessary to rummage through whatever personal data he left behind. The reason motive is unimportant is because he is dead, with no chance of committing any further crimes.
So, this is really just another "encryption is evil" hit piece by the state-run media. Nothing more.
There must be no access possible under any conditions
Because we already KNOW they do illegal search and seizure on a daily basis.
THEY can not be trusted therefore:
Bulletproof and invulnerable encryption is our only recourse to force police to act within the law
Or both?
I've seen both terms used in regards to this phone and I don't trust the media not to use these terms interchangeably. I don't even know that the FBI has stated one way or the other.
If it's encrypted though, the government is on its own to brute force it and Apple can't help decrypt it even if they wanted to, so this is a debate about nothing.
Apple can theoretically unlock the device by flashing it with new signed firmware, but I didn't understand in the San Bernardino case either why the FBI didn't just disassemble the phone and directly download the data from the flash memory chip.
Phone encryption is the problem here, not how easy it is for any lunatic to get a gun in the US. Sounds like just another distraction from the real issue.
Here is the 2nd Amendment:
Back in the day, the word "well regulated" mean "well equipped". The revolutionaries had just finished fending off the well equipped military of the King of England, and they did so because men of fighting age had arms.
In order to keep the new American State free, it's necessary to protect the State's freedom with a well equipped group of fighters. Thus, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, because not only is that an inalienable right endowed by the Creator (as indicated in the Declaration of Independence), but keeping and bearing arms allows The People to be ready to fight for their freedom—especially against a distant, intractable, Tyrannical power, as the Federal government increasingly seems to be.
Look, the American theory of government is that rights existed before the government; it is not the government that grants rights, but rather the "Creator" (i.e., rights are an inherent aspect of sentient beings). A government gets its authority from the fact that The People collectively agree to delegate some of their own authorities to the Government; yet, the founders thought that the right to bear arms is so fundamental and important to a Free society, that they decided to enshrine that right explicitly in the 2nd Amendment (rather than leave it as one of the implicit, "unenumerated" rights), and in doing so, the founders forbade the government from even accepting from The People any delegation of the associated authority—as the Constitution is currently written, it's not even possible for The People to delegate away their right to keep and bear arms.
If the governments of the United States ever did get rid of the Second Amended, there would be a lot of people who would cry "Tyranny!"; those people would deny ever having legitimately delegated their right away, and there would be—without any doubt—a second Civil War.
Kinda like your post. (and mine)
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Maybe a 48 hour cooling off period and a criminal background check should be required before you are able to buy an iPhone.
The phone is in their possession.
The FBI wants to take our rights away because they didn't think to get a fingerprint to login in within 48 hours? I suppose it would be too much to ask for them to do their job next time since this is the same FBI that had Zacarias Moussaoui in custory in August 2001 and noted that he seemed to want to fly a plane into the World Trade Center.
what exactly are they hoping to learn? This sort of thing has been going on for ages and we've done fuck all about it. No sign of gun control since it's a complete losing issue politically. No expansion of mental health services. Hell, this guy was kicked out of the church by the pastor.
There's nothing to investigate here. A depressed loon ball with access to high power killing equipment who'd been shit on a bit too much said 'fuck it'. Case closed. What, you think you're gonna find the illuminati are behind it all? This is just another excuse to get decryption keys and back doors from manufactures. Fortunately it'll go nowhere since the more we discuss it the more we have to bring up universal medical care (which nobody wants to pay for) or gun control (which is DOA).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
> He shouldm't have been unable to purchase guns on the basis that ...and had a history of violent behavior.
> expand the data used in conducting these checks. Those on the right complain loudly that this somehow violates their second amendment rights
You're totally unaware that you're advocating for exactly the same things the NRA is saying. Under existing federal law, his attempts to purchase should have been blocked because he had plead guilty to intentionally attacking his toddler stepson so bad that he broke the baby's skull. But some people in government don't want to follow the law, they want to keep passing and ignoring more laws. Had the authorities followed existing federal laws, the purchases would not have been allowed.
Do you think the guy should have served serious prison time for intentionally breaking a kid's skull? How about for the numerous domestic assault cases? If you do, and if you actually believe what you said about actually DOING background checks, rather than passing and ignoring another pretend law, than you ARE "the right".
Instead of handing over the encryption keys to the government why not just employ some simple investigation instead? If they need to know what calls were made from the phone find out which carrier was used and get that info from them. If they want to see what emails were sent that can be found out too.
The FBI and the cops don't want to do this because it means having to get one of those pesky warrants. And that requires just cause, etc. No, they would rather just invade our privacy and trample on our 4th amendment rights along the way.
Does anyone know if the FBI considered the acoustic analysis that was offered in response to their pleas for help to the public?
It's worth the 30 minutes, the analysis presented some compelling information, was well explained and reasoned.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Why would the FBI be all panicky about being unable to get into the murderer's phone? Are they looking for signs of involvement with ISIS or the Russians? Who helped him get the guns? Well, other than the Air Farce, in failing to inform the NCIC of his court martial or his Bad Conduct Discharge or his conviction for domestic violence. Had the Air Force done that, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. On the other hand, most law enforcement agencies can't be bothered to actually arrest and prosecute criminals who try to buy guns.
It's quite likely that the FBI is ginning up a panic merely to muddy the waters and make this seem like's an actual problem, when it probably is not.
AC consider the mil can get in. GCHQ, NSA can get in via the next gen DROPOUT JEEP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
US law enforcement has its "Americans’ Cellphones Targeted in Secret U.S. Spy Program" (Nov. 13, 2014)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a...
So that covers tracking and the removal of privacy.
The only question left for US law enforcement at a federal, state, city level is what to tell the public about its budgets for collect it all systems.
Keep it out of court and no lawyer, human rights group will never really know who/how/why/when.
Interesting people will buy into and totally trust the next generation of US big brand phone thinking network/physical police access is always one gen behind.
PRISM showed what US brands really do before a product is released. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The public talking points will always try to suggest the just released most advanced cell phone is 100% encrypted but the contractors/mil/security services can collect it all.
How to hide the role of the security services but still allow logs, live mic voice, location, files to be used in court?
The UK considered that issue when the security services had the ability to decode junk consumer grade computer encryption for police.
No lawyer or member of the media, court worker, police was ever going to see the direct role of the security services in real time decryption, global cell phone tracking.
Such information for the UK courts was hidden behind "police" sounding support under names like National Criminal Intelligence Service, Government Telecommunications Advisory Centre, Govemmemt Technical Assistance Centre, National Technical Assistance Centre.
Experts from the security services could then enter the court system under the cover of a police support role.
Lawyers, member of the media, court worker, police, cults, criminals, faith groups could never really work out if the UK police had a few average informants, a super grass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Could a UK registered cell phone been used as a live mic globally on a UK police budget?
The UK always tried to keep its collection well hidden and secure within the GCHQ, 5 eyes, Royal Ulster Constabulary Special Branch and UK mil (mil to cover global collection, special forces to act on results).
The USA is stuck with its lawyers, cults, faith groups, media, human rights groups, ex and former police, telco and court workers all knowing too much about police collection just from courts, police budgets. States, cities with their versions of FOIA to see paperwork on police budgets.
The more the US courts talk about cell phone collection (network and physical), the more interesting people reconsider trusting their big brand updated cell phones.
Some US police budgets depend on short term good news stories, so collection methods become part of court work.
Police need to collect it all but still show push the talking point that the US brand of cell phone to "too advanced" to understand.
That a new fully encrypted US big brand cell phone is still a very wise investment for any criminal, cult, faith group. A US cell phone can exist in both as secure and decrypted depending on the police talking points.
To totally trust that cell phone is the nation wide talking point needed. Until some low cost DROPOUT JEEP got used by a city, state.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
The guy is dead and wont be shooting anyone else and if he wasn't, they would have more enough physical evidence to send the guy to Huntsville for lethal injection.
What exactly are they hoping to find by getting into this guy's phone that they cant get through physical evidence at the crime scene?
... Ineptitude Hampers Investigation of Texas Shooter, Says Common Sense.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Those pesky laws, constitutions, and amendments, we should just do away with them since they're interfering with investigations, right? Bring back the Writ of Assistance too I suppose?
Methinks they're just lazy, they need to relearn how to do investigations without relying on the crutch of stealing all our rights away to make their jobs easier. This is just a technological barrier, and has done far less to "interfere" with their work than has the constitution. If every time they ran into an investigative challenge they changed a law, we'd have no rights left inside a week.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
I'm pretty sure I read it in a few places when Touch ID was new -- it needs a life finger to work. It won't work with a cadaver.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
And then someone gets a copy of Apple's private key and leaks it.
Kinda like what happened to the NSA's hacking tools.
How did the FBI investigate cases when most people didn't carry small computers on them all the time? I'm not really that concerned about what is effectively a blip of about 20 years where where personal devices were valuable evidence. We still solved crimes before this and we'll still solve crimes after this.
The alternative to encrypting every phone is rampant identity theft, and given that the government is happy to bail out credit agencies and banks but not help your average taxpaying victim has already drawn the lines for this battle.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
God forbid those incompetent, donut-gobbling jack-offs actually have to do some real police work.
Hey, FBI: If you care about the dead people, prosecute the Air Force personnel who apparently didn't think this scumbag's record of abuse warranted a call to the people who might have made it more difficult for him to get a gun. But you don't really care about the dead people, so quit whining about stripping away what little privacy law-abiding citizens have left because you're too lazy and too stupid to do your job without having everything handed to you on a plate.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
After reading this article, the next Slashdot in my feed describes a security bug with super-easy exploit, that can subtly control all your devices and read all your data regardless of encryption status. And "nobody important" (aka US gov't) seems to be up in arms about it.
But I suppose the device has to be powered on and based on Intel CPU.
https://it.slashdot.org/story/...
or, at least, that is what we are supposed to believe. If the FBI could break into these devices a good strategy would be to shout about how they cannot get in and so convince crooks/paedoes/political-dissidents/... to buy them.
The FBI have taken a case where they know who did the crime, they have a pretty good idea of the nature of the man and why he did it - but they are using it as a poster case to tell everyone that they cannot break into the 'phone.
Ten years ago, that shooter would have had a Nokia phone. With no information stored on it. I can't remember the FBI complaining that phones didn't store enough information, and were hindering their efforts back then?
How can we have the device accurately and securely track time over such long periods?
How about the use of a Secondary Unlock PIN with a hardware counter?
To be used, the 2nd Unlock PIN has to be entered 30 times successfully, BUT after the PIN is entered once, you have to wait a minimum of 24 hours before entering it the next time.
The secondary PIN can be something kept on record either by the manufacturer or by the service provider.
This guy nailed it. Read that, and learn what it means to be an American.
Further, if you want to understand how to parse the language, and avoid the misunderstanding that the 2nd only applies to militias, there are lots of articles out there which discuss how to parse it in the context it was written in, such as this pretty long article about it.
You've got facts precisely backward again. EXISTING federal law is that if you have a criminal background, like the attacker did, you can't purchase or possess firearms. Unfortunately, when he was convicted in 2012, and purchased the guns a few years ago, the federal government was operating in a mode where the executive branch was ignoring the laws. The president at the time actually said he "had" to set a policy of breaking the law because chose not give him the law he wanted.
What the liberals want is the "may issue with good reason" law they passed in Washington DC and other places. It says the police "may issue" a firearm permit if the applicant shows that they have "good reason" to need to be able to exercise their Constitutional rights. Obviously, under that law anyone may be denied, simply because the cop doesn't feel like issuing a license at the moment because they'd rather go to lunch. The DC law has had been struck down as unconstitutional FOUR separate times. Each time it was struck down, the liberals kept passing it again because following the Constitution is less important to them than following Al Gore.
So the president is absolutely correct, under the laws that liberals want (and keep passing again after it's struck down), anyone may be denied their Constitutional rights for any reason or no reason. The police "may issue" the permit if they feel like it.
What "may issue" ends up being in practice is "issue if your dad is a sheriff, or your husband is a judge". When I was in a "may issue" state I once ran right through a red light and got pulled over. I couldn't find my driver's license (the bank had put it in the envelope with my cash). The cop said he was going to take me to jail until he could verify I had a valid DL. That's when I showed him my gun permit. He apologized for pulling me over and sent me on my way - no ticket for running right through a red light, or not having my DL with me, because obviously I was somebody important - the police chief had issued me a gun license, and not just anyone can get a license in a "may issue" state.
DC v Heller says we can own a firearm in ready and operating condition for self defense. McDonald v Chicago found that that right was incorporated to the individual and that no level of Government may infringe on that right. No need to show up for militia training, that is an unconstitutional infringement of the 2nd Amendment. Per the US Supreme Court.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
read this entirely for a classified document on how they decrypt any phone - FBI is lying
US DOJ staffers engaged in warrantless surveillance against me using psi weaponry then had my body irradiated and hit with parakinesis to cover it up. The original site of use was Oregon State Hospital now have
been targeted for 9 years of rape, torture, and murder attempts. I am best friends with top NSA/CIA whistleblowers and am one myself. I contacted DOJ before just to be disrespected multiple times. I witnessed DOJ fuck up and hide the truth from the American people. The government is not made up of nice people, they are into eugenics and population control. They kill over 500,000 citizens annually using psych drugs alone- more citizens have been executed than in the holocaust. 1000s are executed by the police directly via quite deliberate shootings on the street. Others are assassinated in secret. Others get put in prison for life times with no due process. All the government's crimes are always hidden. Now I am here to provide the classified documents on a space based weapon they have used to beam radiation into countless citizens brains forcing them to kill themselves and others. Countless cars have been driven off cliffs and planes downed with this technology. They could have easily used the brain scans of entrapment victims to learn how to help them but instead they walk the people to their death/demise.
I have endured irradiation, torture and murder attempts for over 9 years here in Oregon and other states to bring you this Intel. The documents will fully expose a satellite and ground based radar/cell tower/laser network to remotely access our brains, bodies, environments, electronics- allowing full quantum remote control from great distances and for any state of matter or energy to be accessed from any distance. They can even influence a brain to make it do a bombing unwitting to the individual as may have been done to Mohammed Mohomed- he would not even know they reprogrammed him to do it. The documents confirm the FBI and local law enforcement have full access to this weapon and will kill and discredit citizens before taking criminal actions against its use which is why no official has done anything to shut this down for decades. Countless lawyers and advocates use the tech warrantlessly and in secret getting Intel for parallel construction and gaining the upper hand. Congress letter included confirms they know about it and kept it secret from the public. Secret law has made this secretly legal. This technology predates UPSTREAM and PRISM programs. The technology dates back to 1920s. By 1950s it was fully deployed in space over many citizens homes and today is deployed globally. NSA data centers store brain scans of citizens and scan data of environment and effects- the brain is fully decrypted to their memories, thoughts, images, sound, emotions, vital signs etc.
4th amendment and Kyllo v United States fully subverted- for this tech to work illegal searches with through wall and off wall laser/radar scans must take place. To seize control over someone's brain/body/environment is like taking them into custody. It is also a 1st amendment violation by preventing the generation of free speech and by preventing citizens from developing who they are and want to be. NSA/CIA whistleblowers standing by to testify in court.
Here's some emails from my friends, NSA whistleblowers, psychologist, confirming I'm a victim and going into the details on how the President's have tortured me, tried to kill me, but I survived maimed. I have had the full set of Neuropsychological and Electronic No Touch Torture used on me described in a document below. My body has been hit with directed energy from the governments space capability. I've been spied on, memories and thoughts monitored, and movements tracked for over 9 years in battles with the government. I have even been raped over 1000 times, as the directed energy massages my genitals forcing orgasms, in a futuristic 'virtual sex' method. It's like fucking an in
How about no? The government doesn't need a backdoor into my phone.
His argument is supported by the first 100 or so years of case law on the subject. The idea that it was a collective vs an individual right only came about after the civil war, when southern lawmakers were looking for ways to keep newly freed blacks disarmed. Prior to this time it was never interpreted that way, including the time when the people who wrote the amendment were still alive and active in government.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
For someone with resources of a Nation state or the FBI, it is totally possible to get into an encrypted Android or iPhone. All one has to do is desolder the SOC and brute force the password, which is likely a crappy one easily found using a rainbow table. Even a 16 char random password can be brute forced in a few days with modern cracking rigs.
This whole process was illustrated by a contractor the last time this was in the news.
Really, I know people need work but isn't it enough to simply say that a person with a severe emotional problem murdered a bunch of people. One can investigate the purple, flying Jesus out of it all and in the end it will come down to a mentally ill man acting out with great rage and hatred. Do we really need to spend millions to come to that conclusion?
"most cellphone batteries last 48 hours?"
ummmmmmm
I am sorry, but I simply do not care. No real purpose is served in finding out the motives of these men.
The best way to change white peoples' definition of a right to bear arms is for black people to bear arms:
Here's How The Nation Responded When A Black Militia Group Occupied A Government Building
https://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Mulford's legislation, which became known as the "Panthers Bill," passed with the support of the National Rifle Association, which apparently believed that the whole "good guy with a gun" thing didn't apply to black people. California Gov. Ronald Reagan (R), who would later campaign for president as a steadfast defender of the Second Amendment, signed the bill into law.
I hate to say this but we have to modify metal detectors to sense that someone is carrying big weapons in any buildings. Maybe have door locks automatically trapping the suspect in the foyer. Have small windows so he can't shoot his way out. Even if you don't want to stop them. Keep the dam cameras on them at the very least! Then you will know their locations. Churches and Schools almost have to have sharp shooters above since the EN ARE EH can't keep their hands off of big weapon money! ..White House update: The rifle butt stock modification bill died in the White House because one side of the $$$ aisle would not vote no. $$$
There is no private key in Apple's possession. Their system does not work that way.
I'm not doing your homework for you. Case law is public. Go look it up. All of your other arguments have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Just a bunch of strawmen.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
One did.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Back in the day, the word "well regulated" mean "well equipped".
*citation needed
Bulletproof encryption isn't the only recourse left: Bullets are. Bullets, and, if we're lucky, our military completely loaded with 'democracy'm to deal with the military gear the LEO crime gangs now have at their disposal. The justice system has utterly collapsed. The founding fathers warned us it would need doing eventually.
Wrong.
The founders saw that INSURRECTION against the state appointed leaders (Police, judges) would be a danger to the status quo, and made ALL OF YOUR (militia) liable to be drafted to "putting down insurrections" in ARticle 1.
As for the Military, they do not serve democracy, as noted by the enthusiastic volunteering to kill in Afghanistan and Iraq on the orders of a NOT elected leader (bush v. Gore stopped the count of legal votes)