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'Face Reality! We Need Net Neutrality!' Crowd Chants Across the Country (arstechnica.com)

ArsTechnica staff took to the streets in Washington DC, New York, and San Francisco to capture rallies in support for net neutrality, a week before the FCC is scheduled to take a historic vote rolling back network neutrality regulations. From their report: Protestors say those regulations, which were enacted by the Obama FCC in 2015, are crucial for protecting an open Internet. Organizers chose to hold most of the protests outside of Verizon cell phone stores. Ajit Pai, the FCC Chairman who is leading the agency's charge to repeal network neutrality, is a former Verizon lawyer, and Verizon has been a critic of the Obama network neutrality rules. The protest that got the most attention from FCC decision makers took place on Thursday evening in Washington DC. The FCC was holding a dinner event at the Hilton on Connecticut Avenue, just north of the city's Dupont Circle area. Protestors gathered on the street corner outside the hotel, waving pro-net neutrality posters to traffic, blaring chants, projecting pro-net neutrality messages on a building across the street, and telling personal stories about what net neutrality meant to them via a megaphone. The FCC's two Democratic commissioners also joined the demonstration, Mignon Clyburn and Jessica Rosenworcel. They both gave brief speeches to the protestors, rallying for the cause and discussing the importance of a neutral Internet.

45 of 296 comments (clear)

  1. Chants by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Chanting does a lot of good. It really changes things, because the government really cares what you think.

    1. Re:Chants by clonehappy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Remember, these are the same kinds of people that think Shouting at the Sky is an effective tool to get Trump impeached.

    2. Re:Chants by sycodon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Homeless dude's Resume:

      Participated in Anti-Trump Rally. Looked very upset.

      Participated in BLM Rally. Looked very sincere.

      Participated in Climate Rally. Looked very scared.

      Participated in Net Neutrality Rally. Looked very confused.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    3. Re:Chants by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Internet doomsday is already here, you guys just don't realize it. What is coming next: you will only be allowed to connect to the Internet by rented "approved" devices provided by a handful of companies. You don't think that will happen? It will.

    4. Re:Chants by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      It already has. Do I have to tell you how many ways you are currently being tracked on the Internet? The doom has already arrived, you just don't know it. More doom to come. I hope you enjoy it.

    5. Re:Chants by Eldaar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Clearly many national politicians don't much care what the people think, but they do care about getting re-elected.

      As it turns out, chanting and protesting can draw media attention. And when the media actually does cover protests, that's when politicians start to feel the heat - when they start to realize that the issue might affect their re-election, at least a little bit. And that's when they'll start to care.

      So protesting matters in that sense. It also helps the public see what others in society think is important enough to protest about, which can affect the viewers' own thinking on the issue. Protesting also matters in that sense.

    6. Re:Chants by Kohath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Some of us are old enough to remember 1000 dramatic predictions of the future, and then the future happened and none of those dramatic predictions came true.

    7. Re:Chants by ljw1004 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Chanting does a lot of good. It really changes things, because the government really cares what you think.

      See: Gandhi, MLK, John Woolman, Emmeline Pankhurst, Ned Ludd, and the "can't pay won't pay" chants that took down Margaret Thatcher - http://www.economist.com/node/...

      I think that chanting is the most effective means we have to change society, second only to "having lots of money". (albeit a distant second).

    8. Re:Chants by penandpaper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How would net neutrality, as currently defined by the FCC (the rules proposed to be repealed) stop internet tracking?

    9. Re:Chants by Kohath · · Score: 2

      You didn't tell me that 20 years ago. You aren't making the case that you can predict the future.

      ... tracked ... profiled ... monitored ... laughed ... laughing ... dumb ...

      Fanaticism and zeal don't sound credible and factual. You can probably get an "Amen" though.

    10. Re:Chants by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Bingo. But it is only effective if it is followed up in the ballot box. But the people who are chanting have low historical voting participation rates.

    11. Re:Chants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Funny. That's almost identical to Trump's Resume for PotUS.

    12. Re:Chants by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You said "What is coming next: you will only be allowed to connect to the Internet by rented "approved" devices provided by a handful of companies"

      Did that happen before Net Neutrality to a greater extent than it does now?

      The US does have a problem with competition - but that's because companies like Comcast are given a regional monopoly of high speed internet access. Net Neutrality won't fix that. It won't even stop 'zero rating', which is the thing companies like Google are worried about.

      T-Mobile Binge On doesnâ(TM)t violate Net neutrality rules, says FCC chairman

      Zero rating is what that Portuguese mobile operator Meo did, and that also didn't violate EU net neutrality laws

      https://truthonthemarket.com/2...

      This tempest in the teacup is about mobile data plans, specifically the ability of mobile subscribers to supplement their data plan (typically ranging from 200 MB to 3 GB per month) with additional 10 GB data packages containing specific bundles of apps - messaging apps, social apps, video apps, music apps, and email and cloud apps. Each additional 10 GB data package costs EUR 6.99 per month and Meo (the mobile operator) also offers its own zero rated apps. Similar plans have been offered in Portugal since at least 2012.

      These data packages are a clear win for mobile subscribers, especially pre-paid subscribers who tend to be at a lower income level than post-paid subscribers. They allow consumers to customize their plan beyond their mobile broadband subscription, enabling them to consume data in ways that are better attuned to their preferences. Without access to these data packages, consuming an additional 10 GB of data would cost each user an additional EUR 26 per month and require her to enter into a two year contract.

      Even the reliably left wing Snopes pointed out that comparing Meo's Smart Net to cable where you need to choose a subset of channels is bullshit

      https://www.snopes.com/portuga...

      Except Portugal does practice net neutrality, and the graphic doesn't accurately depict what Portugal's internet looks like overall.

      The European Union's Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communications (BEREC) established net neutrality guidelines in 2015. Portugal is a member of the European Union, so its internet providers must comply.

      The service promoted in the MEO graphic, "Smart Net," is essentially a menu of add-ons to the company's standard mobile data service plan. Contrary to the way it's been presented, it doesn't limit users' access to particular apps or sites. Rather, it lays out prepackaged options via which MEO customers can add extra gigabytes of data usage to their mobile phone plans (similar to Vodafone's "Passes" offerings).

      And of course there are other plans than Smart Net and other telcos than Meo in Portugal, just like when T Mobile launched Binge On, you had other choices of telco. And other plans.

      Actually in most places other than the US you've typically got a choice of ISPs for your fixed internet connection. E.g. you can choose between multiple DSL providers in the UK. And, if you live in a city probably cable and fibre ones too.

      US regulations stifle competition, and those are the regulations you should worry about. Not that your mobile company offers you a deal where it costs EUR 6.99 to get 10GB to a subset of websites instead of EUR 26 for a neutral 10 GB.

      All it means is that if you spend all your time on Facebook and Youtube, you can get 10GB of data to those for EUR 6.99 instead of having to pay EUR 26.

      Of course Google and Facebook hate this because they think the ISPs will charge them to be zero rated. But who cares? Google and Facebook suck just as ba

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    13. Re:Chants by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

      Damn. A logician has to go ruin my paradox of the day...

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    14. Re:Chants by Dragonslicer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, it did, approximately 50 years ago. The federal government is the reason that AT&T had to allow non-AT&T telephones.

    15. Re:Chants by ljw1004 · · Score: 2

      It wasn't chanting that made MLK or Ghandi effective or created change.

      ?? If you mean specifically "chant some words" then no of course not. But chanting as part of a protest gathering -- this is exactly what caused change.

    16. Re:Chants by tbannist · · Score: 2

      Heck, the Federal Government is the reason you're allowed to own a phone at all. They used to only rent them to people.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    17. Re:Chants by i286NiNJA · · Score: 2

      Some of us are old enough to remember back when any sort of communication cost you out the ass and then the internet opened up for commerce and rapidly destroyed these exploitative business models while simultaneously making most people involved even more money.

      Now they want all the new business with the old business model. You're such a patsy bro. There is literally no way you're a real nerd.

    18. Re:Chants by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      Heck, the Federal Government is the reason you're allowed to own a phone at all. They used to only rent them to people.

      The government is the reason you couldn't own a phone for a long time in the first place. You started being able to own a phone once government started to de-regulate the phone system.

  2. Were they in the form of legal opinions? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If not, Ajit Pai doesn't care about what you have to say. Anti-net-neutrality bot comments are acceptable in any form however.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Were they in the form of legal opinions? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please provide a source where anyone at the FCC said that anti-NN consumer comments in any form (much less ones from bots) drove their decision to any degree. Thanks.

      There's no indication that the FCC cared in any way about comments from the public.

      But someone sure went to a lot of effort to post over a million anti-Net Neutrality comments to the FCC using stolen identities a bot network.

      https://boingboing.net/2017/11...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Were they in the form of legal opinions? by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But someone sure went to a lot of effort to post over a million anti-Net Neutrality comments to the FCC using stolen identities a bot network.

      And there were at least 7.5 million auto-generated pro-NN comments as well. Both sides were replete with folks with far more tech savvy than common sense who thought that the comment mechanism was a ballot box, which, ironically enough, made it significantly harder for the FCC to sort though the mess to find any comments actually providing meaningful information.

    3. Re:Were they in the form of legal opinions? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Informative

      7.5 Million according to the FCC. According to Kao, his number is "more than a million". So who do believe the FCC or Kao. I'm not likely to believe Pai since he won't actually disclose the methodology and the numbers.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  3. Re:We Can Has Freedom? by 110010001000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The State of Liberty does not represent the freedom for companies with government granted monopolies to do what they please. You completely understand what America is supposed to be about. You should probably go back to grade school.

  4. Re:We Can Has Freedom? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Improving the practical freedom of the average human has always involved adding laws to the books. Aimless minimization of laws only benefits the most powerful at the expense of the rest of society.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  5. They dont matter by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They will never show up to vote. Their mentality is, "If you are not perfect, there is no difference between the two candidates, I am going to stay home or vote for some useless candidate to send a message". They are easily defeated in elections.

    Politicians can safely ignore them. And they do.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:They dont matter by Merk42 · · Score: 2

      What should they do instead? Vote for someone who doesn't share their interests? Something else?

    2. Re:They dont matter by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Informative
      Show up to vote. Be fanatical. Show up to the most insignificant local election to the dog catcher, ask the candidate if they support "net neutrality". It will percolate up.

      Be like NRA members. They are a force to be reckoned with. Organize under a banner, and show that you believe. In a democracy only voters count.

      Protests don't help. Showing up at a campaign for the Municipality Sanitation board candidate and pester that candidate about net neutrality. If they think you are a voter they will pay attention. If they know you will definitely show up to vote they will court you.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  6. test driven policy by bugs2squash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    OK, so let's say the proposed change is crafted to increase competition, improve service, reduce prices, and put a chicken in every pot before 18 months are up. All these things are testable. All significant policy changes from any side should come with a test plan, a rollout plan, a success criteria and a backout plan for every stage of the rollout.

    And if the effect of the policy change is too small to determine among all the other noise in the system take specific steps to address that by bundling policy changes or testing it in a smaller environment - I believe even the Chinese do that. For example, ask for state governors to volunteer their state as a testbed for policy that they believe is a great idea for the US as a whole.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  7. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  8. Freudian Slip by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    You completely understand what America is supposed to be about.

    Yes. Yes I do.

    You should probably go back to grade school.

    I have been back - to help teach computer programming to children. You should try it sometime, as it helps ground you in reality.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Freudian Slip by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, obviously you don't understand what America is about. It isn't supposed to be government granted monopolies running free without any oversight or restrictions. In the real world (as opposed to your suburbanite middle class faux Libertarian bubble), there needs to be some oversight on these artificial monopolies.

  9. Re:We Can Has Freedom? by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Baloney. Quite the opposite. Netflix has partnered with Comcast for example. Their app is now built into their cable boxes. You can make damn sure they will make sure the Netflix traffic is higher priority than any competitor they don't partner with. This will eliminate any competitors that don't pay Comcast. You guys are completely delusional.

  10. So a bunch of people in states by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That didn't vote for Trump are protesting. Folks, you do realize this doesn't matter, right? Steve Bannon might be an unrepentant asshole but he said something brilliant. I'm paraphrasing here but the gist is: if the other side keeps banging on about issue the working class doesn't care about and we're sticking to a message of economic popularism we're going to be in power for the next 1000 years. I know a bunch of liberals who were upset that the 1000 year part was a thinly veiled reference to the Third Reich, again, missing the point entirely...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:So a bunch of people in states by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 2

      I know a bunch of liberals who were upset that the 1000 year part was a thinly veiled reference to the Third Reich, again, missing the point entirely...

      No it wasn't. It was a reference to something a liberal said about being in power for ending segregation.

  11. Re:Practical freedom comes from technology by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look at any labor law or environmental law, just off the top of my head. In the absence of any such laws, any labor arrangement at least down to indentured servitude, if not slavery, of adults and children, would be enforceable as a private contract between individuals, and corporations would save money by heavily polluting the environment. These things did happen in the past in the absence of such laws.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  12. Re:Practical freedom comes from technology by orlanz · · Score: 2

    - False advertising
    - Jaywalking
    - Murder
    - Property rights / leeways
    - FOI laws

    Of course laws restrict freedom... that's kind of their definition. Especially in the US system where the starting point is that all are equal, free, and are considered to have many fundamental rights from birth (sometimes conception). A proper law is designed to restrict individual freedom at the increased benefit, freedoms, & prosperity of society at large. Examples above.

  13. Re:We Can Has Freedom? by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Then they are probably celebrating the REMOVAL of regulations over the internet, which means more freedom - not less.

    Very often, both sides in a conflict can shout "freedom" and claim the moral high ground. Remember the Confederate monuments? Those brave Southern heroes were fighting for their freedom -- their freedom to own other people. Freedom and tyranny are in the eye of the beholder.

    I agree, saying "freedom from regulation" sounds a lot better than saying "corporations' right to prey on their own customers is more important than the customers' right to choose what information they can access." When you put that way, it's hard to get behind.

    For my part, I care a lot more about my own freedom than I do about Verizon's.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  14. Re:We Can Has Freedom? by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    Yes, there has been a relatively recent shift in the actions of Netflix as they are now the entrenched incumbent. In the beginning they all wanted an "even playing field". Now that they are on top, they want to keep competitors out. This is exactly why you see Netflix partnering with Comcast and T-Mobile, etc for preferential treatment. Netflix doesn't want to go back. The Internet is changing fast.

  15. Re:Appeal to what he believes by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problems with that are twofold: 1. Nobody wants a hundred companies digging up their yard. 2. Even if they did, most areas are not dense enough to viably support more than one infrastructure provider.

    So the "market-based" approach basically translates to, "Screw poor areas. You don't get fast Internet. Screw rural areas. You don't get fast Internet. Screw everybody in suburbia. You don't get fast Internet. But if you live in dense housing in one of about twenty or thirty major cities, you'll get three or four choices." You cannot create competition in a natural monopoly market. It can't be done no matter how much you deregulate, because the incumbent will always be able to cut costs to nothing until the newcomer goes out of business, then raise rates to make up that money and more. I've watched this happen in smaller markets.

    The only viable semi-market-based approach is one in which the government builds the infrastructure and leases access to ISPs in a nondiscriminatory fashion. But the Republicans don't like that approach because it doesn't produce monopolies for their cronies, so appealing to their desire for competition won't help.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. Re:We Can Has Freedom? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

    Improving the practical freedom of the average human has always involved adding laws to the books. Aimless minimization of laws only benefits the most powerful at the expense of the rest of society.

    So by that logic if we pass an addition million laws we will somehow become more free. That doesn't ring true. A certain level of law is needed true but once the basics are covered you get less freedom with each additional law.

    I don't think you understand how logic works. "A implies B" does not mean "B implies A".

    You might want to brush up on your Boolean Algebra.

  18. Re:Practical freedom comes from technology by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This assertion relies on what I call "The Unabomber option." In order to participate in society, you will have to "opt into" certain agreements - usually for utility services, housing, and some form of employment. The only alternative is to live alone in a shack deep in the woods, like the Unabomber. This incredibly undesirable alternative is presented as a perfectly good and reasonable option for the purpose of making an unfair agreement seem more consensual than it really is.

    In the case of labor laws, the choice would've been to sign up for, or compete with, the aforementioned exploitative labor practices; or take the Unabomber option.

    Coming back to housing, we have housing regulations for the same reason. Without them, landlords and homebuilders would minimize the safety and privacy of the housing they offer to maximize their own profit (at least on the low end of the market). The alternative was to construct your Unabomber shack on a squatted plot of land and hope you wouldn't be found out.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  19. Re:Practical freedom comes from technology by tbannist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Slavery and indentured servitude are constructs of the government and only exist and are enforced through government force.

    How is slavery a construct of the government when slavery is illegal? Does it "exist and [is] enforced through government force" when criminal gangs force people into slavery in countries where it is illegal?

    Environmental law amounts to a license to pollute; traditional English common law property rights are far more effective at protecting the environment.

    History disagrees with your delusions.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  20. The IRS did it by speedlaw · · Score: 2

    When I was told that I had to pay my witholding on line (small business), that was the day the internet became a Utiltiy. I could not pay at my bank...who used to take tax deposit. I cannot pay by check to a mail address. No, I must, must, must pay on line. If I have to pay on line, then it is a utility, like the post office, or a common carrier, like the Bell System. Back in the day when they couldn't monitor traffic, the phone co wanted immunity for any illegal acts for which the phone was used....so common carrier helped them. Now that they expect to packet sniff every transaction, they are greedy for fast and slow lanes.