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Burger King Makes the Case For Net Neutrality (variety.com)
An anonymous reader writes: By now you've probably seen Burger King's spoof ad on the decision by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission to repeal net neutrality. In the ad, Burger King customers are informed that there are now three "lanes" for ordering Whoppers -- each with substantially different prices and waiting times. The ad has already generated over a million views on Youtube and is lighting up Twitter. One thing I missed the first time is that while the Burger King "counter service" is clearly in on the act, the customers are apparently real; they learn of the cockamamie scheme at the counter in the style of the old TV show Candid Camera. Variety notes that the video "ends with an apparent dig at FCC Chairman Ajit Pai [...] as the Burger King character is shown drinking from an oversized Reese's coffee mug. That is the type of coffee mug that Pai uses at FCC meetings."
Burger King is selling an actual physical product, and one you could walk across the street and just as easily buy from Whataburger. The ISP's are generally a monopoly and it's either their way or nothing. And they are not selling a physical item that someone must fix for you, they are selling virtual bandwidth on a pipe that is already there. #SENDTHEMTOJAIL
Because it's (probably) not the consumer that pays (directly) for the preferred treatment. But in the end that's who will foot the bill, so...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
As many have pointed out their stunt is not depicting net neutrality but simply standard tiers of Internet service. Net neutrality would be more like if Burger King accepted payment from Pepsi to hamper (or block) Coca-Cola sales. And obviously Burger King would never do something that since they are signaling the proper non-discriminatory virtues. Oh, but wait, that is exactly what they do entering into exclusive drink supplier contracts. Can BK spell hippocritical?
If you're absolutely sure you don't want a Coke, just wait in line a bit longer.
(insert coke lines jokes below)
Not filthier than all the other fast food restaurants around here. Mostly 'cause our health inspectors are quick to shut down any restaurant that doesn't look like a pre-op operating room.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Actually, plenty of sit-down restaurants have something like this. You can take the slow approach of waiting for a table, or go to the bar and order food there. If you are alone or in a hurry the bar works well. If you are with a group and want to sit together instead of getting scattered (or at least strung out in a line where it is harder to talk), you wait. I seen places where the bar menu is the same, and other places where it is different.
All that said, I agree that the fact that most places you have choices of lots of restaurants whose fate is determined by a open market makes all the difference in whether regulation is appropriate. The government (at various levels) has helped to get things into a condition where most people have little choice of internet providers, so there should be rules that prevent these monopolies from abusing their positions.
... to be able to choose more to get faster service at a restaurant. (Or conversely, get big savings if you are willing to wait.) Sounds good to me.
If BK actually had such a policy, their customers would shop elsewhere starting tomorrow -- obviously. The commercial unintentionally makes the free marketer's point for them.
To make matters worse, the old "neutrality" wasn't really neutral. The actual policy was more like BK could only sell burgers that the government let them sell.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
seems more like you don't understand how an analogy works. the set of all hamburger restaurants isn't "the internet" in this case. this single BK restaurant is "the internet", or monopoly gateway to is. in the context of the ad, the whopper is like netflix or something. you can get the chicken sandwich, which is the ISP video, with no delays. but you may have to wait (or get your whopper throughput throttled) if you don't pay for a premium line. the analogy totally works, if you don't attempt to over-analyze it with "that's not really how..." irrelevant reasoning.
reduce regulatory red tape on infrastructure at state and local levels that allow for local monopolies and the issue will resolve its self. If municipalities, small or mid sized ISP companies, and perhaps even non profits like the Farm Bureau in rural areas, are allowed to sell services against Comcast and ATT, things will improve dramatically. There is no need to put bureaucrats in charge of what can and cant be seen online and make no mistake, the NN regs as they were written absolutely laid the framework for rulemaking about what can and cant be seen online. What else do you think all that talk about legal network traffic was? what is an illegal network traffic load? today its just a botnet or something but tomorrow that could be used to reclassify non politically correct speech as illegal traffic.
So this would explain the rise in overweight mathematicians over the past couple decades....
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Admittedly, I enjoyed the commercial and it did do a good job watering down the issue for the absolute layman. However, the issue is not that simple. It's not only about the lack of net neutrality creating paid high speed lanes, it's also harming consumers who might not want to watch Comcast Xfinity content but are more interested in Netflix. Furthermore, without some kind of neutrality, what is to prevent the ISPs from charging a base price simply for web browsing at say 39.95 and charging extra to have social media, streaming, or other kinds of service unlocked.
The one that bars me from running new wires to people's houses.
You might not have that where you live, but a lot of people do, where it's literally illegal for a new ISP to run hardware to people's houses, even if they want them to.
Poster on the wall says "Wi-Fi only for 6.33"
Was that part of the fake ad, or is this real?!
Here in Canada we get free wi-fi from McDonald's or Tim Horton as soon as we buy something. A lot of them don't even lock or change the password so as soon as you're a customer once, you have access.
#DeleteFacebook
The slow lanes for ordering a burger are actually at Whataburger.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
So, Burger King wants to help you and your reaction is to boycott them? What's wrong with you?
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Despite the ridiculous amount of capital it takes, a lot. The number one place that there are issues is utility poles. Right now, most municipalities have regulations that you must wait for the incumbent player to move their cables to make room for yours. Typically, there is no required turnaround time, or it's a ridiculously long time like 90 days per pole and they can charge you whatever they want for the "service." Some municipalities passed what a are called "one touch make ready" regulations but, the incumbents have sued every time, with varied results but, if nothing else, you had to wait for the lawsuit to conclude before you could proceed. One touch make ready is a regulation that allows a new players to move aside existing cables to make room for their own on the condition that they do not harm existing cables or interfere with the competitor's service. Google fiber required that one touch make ready laws were passed before they would consider your city for their service.
"Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
ISPs are at the mercy of what Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon charge them, since those guys own the pipes needed for broadband. The last mile in each city and town was installed over many decades with the encouragement and subsidy from local governments, waiving complicated rules and rights and way. Even Google, with all its resources, has pretty much given up trying to compete in the local ISP market.
The FCC wants to deregulate a natural monopoly. That's a big problem.
But only Burger King has the whopper, which is their point.
ISPs could throttle your access to Netflix, Hulu and YouTube for example.
#DeleteFacebook
'Nuff said.
So junk food restaurant chains are not allowed to voice their opinion? Especially in areas where such policies may affect their business.
Chick-fil-A is mostly located in the Bible Belt, so being overly liberal could effect its business.
Papa Johns needs an army of low paid workers, having them pay for health insurance will hit their business model.
Burger King I expect needs net neutrality, as it is trying to get back into the game, the once #2 burger chain, is loosing a lot of ground. For it to try to get press again, they need to advertise on the cheaper routs of the internet. Having there voice being blocked means they will not be able to run their business.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
They are, unfortunately, perpetuating a myth about network neutrality which is completely wrong. Burger King has now hurt the network neutrality case. Every ISP, always has, and always will, offer varying speeds. That's not a violation of neutrality.
The drive through is often the fast lane and going indoors to order is the slow lane. The drive through customers usually take priority.
my opportunity to freely express myself with the potential persecution and hangings and such
The difference is that amusements parks aren't critical for modern life. Also, many areas there might be one choice for Internet provider. So no, not "common practice".
this isnt about FCC - its about local and state regs that prevent non incumbents from pulling new cable on existing poles. As I said, its about infrastructure. They dont have to use ATT or comcasts wires, they just need access to poles and underground viaducts.
Chick-fil-A is mostly located in the Bible Belt, so being overly liberal could effect its business.
On a "number of restaurant per capita" basis it looks that way, but they have locations in 45 states and the District of Columbia. There are 4 locations within a 15-minute drive of where I work in SoCal. The store on Westwood Bl, right on the edge of the UCLA campus (hardly a bastion of religious conservatism) does a booming business. Oh, and by the way: effect =~ s/^e/a/
The drive through is often the fast lane and going indoors to order is the slow lane. The drive through customers usually take priority.
LOL. Apparently you've never been to In-n-Out during dinnertime.
Freaking airplanes are a better example, if it is only because it is real. The lack of rules equivalent to net neutrality in airplanes has turned what never was a very pleasant experience into something borderline Kafkaesque. Huge middle finger to airlines world over.
On a "number of restaurant per capita" basis it looks that way,
Which is the only meaningful way to talk about where a chain has concentrated its business.
semantics are everything!
Here is the thing. The Ad is awesome, but that's NOT how they would present it to customers. They would do something like say "for an extra $20 cents you can be in our priority queue to get your burger faster". In fact, I'm surprised some fast food restaurant has not already tried it.
Papa Johns needs an army of low paid workers, having them pay for health insurance will hit their business model.
Papa Johns already had a loophole for this all along anyway. Most locations are independent franchises that don't have enough employees to fall under any insurance requirements anyway.
I thought the point was that if you pay more you should get better service?
I haven't watched the video, but I'm guessing it features people who are upset about the situation? I think it would be fantastic if I could skip a long line by paying more if I'm in a hurry.
most municipalities have regulations that you must wait for the incumbent player to move their cables to make room for yours.
This is one place where I have sympathy for the incumbents. How many Slashdot sysadmins would be fine with a competitor's engineer messing with the fiber runs in your data center under the condition "that they do not harm existing cables"? Maybe they're only making simple modifications to the setup but eventually someone's going to mess up. Your users aren't going to care that technically it was someone else who broke the internet.
Regulations that stipulate reasonable service times and fees seem like a reasonable middle ground.
Imagine if you couldn't call Pizza Hut without paying an additional $15 to Verizon, because Pizza Hut refused to pay Verizon for "access" to their customers. But if you call Papa John's, you get a 20% discount on your order because Papa John's *did* pay Verizon for access to the customers.
Now extend that to every phone call you make. Imagine if the only calls you could make for "free" (as part of your plan) were to individuals and businesses that are paying for the privilege of having Verizon customers call them without additional charges.
THAT is why not having net neutrality is bad. The entire internet will rapidly become pay-per-view, and only the BIGGEST companies will be able to afford to pay-off the bandwidth providers/ISPs to make their content "free".
Drivethrough use case has very different latency requirements than dining in, I don't mind BK deploing traffic shaping to account for that. For Netflix-style bulk consumption of the same item, it would make sense to just have a pile of burgers on the counter and have everyone grab one and swipe their credit card. Sure they get preferential service, but they also don't route their orders all the way to the kitchen and are in and out fast.
Not filthier than all the other fast food restaurants around here. Mostly 'cause our health inspectors are quick to shut down any restaurant that doesn't look like a pre-op operating room.
When I worked in fast food, we (I) scrubbed down the walls and floors every night, besides all the other usual cleaning tasks. Fast food restaurants are probably cleaner on average than greasy spoons, at least.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Do you hold Hobby Lobby to the same standard?
Many Toll Roads are built with the rationale that of you pay the toll, then you can travel faster than the rest of the schmucks.
A prime example of Austin, TX with a toll road with prices that vari with the traffic. Presumably, it's worth more to go faster.
Of course the reality is they fucked it up and people end up spending$5 to go a few miles just as slow as everyone else.
So if paying more at BK, or your ISP is bad, then certainly paying more fore essentially nothing is far worse.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
But that's the point; utility poles aren't on the property of the ISP. They are on municipal property (or private property with municipal easements) and the municipality has every right to regulate how they are maintained and who can use them. In many places, the poles were originally installed by the electrical utility and telcos and cable companies are just free-riders.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
If you're absolutely sure you don't want a Coke, just wait in line a bit longer.
That may actually be more brilliant than what they actually did. You can have your burger right now if you order a full value meal and supersize it. If you don't supersize it, you have to wait, and if you just get the sandwich, GFL. (The rest of the setup, including no special fees for chicken sandwiches, is still spot on.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Destroy the free market that never existed?
#DeleteFacebook
Not a big fan of this commercial, but only because I don't see an issue with paying for a bigger pipe. I think it's fair that I pay more for higher raw throughput for multiple streaming devices than my neighbour that only streams through one TV.
But add a "Fast Lane, sponsored by Coca-Cola" to the mix, where Burger King can push you to buy Coca-Cola instead of Pepsi, because Coca-Cola bid higher than Pepsi for prioritization privileges, and the real problem with repealing NN becomes apparent.
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
The difference is that amusements parks aren't critical for modern life. Also, many areas there might be one choice for Internet provider. So no, not "common practice".
Neither is Burger King "critical for modern life" nor the only choice in fast food providers.
My point is that people and businesses are definitely willing to pay for different qualities of service or quantities of a product.
Regardless this is about the relevance of the Burger King ad to the subject of Net Neutrality.
I'd say revenue by ZIP code would be another extremely meaningful way.
Meanwhile, I just decided I'm *more* likely to go there.
Not quite. Net neutrality says nothing about overall better service at a premium price. What it is about is the ISPs restricting your traffic that you already paid to have access to, based on schemes that are probably hidden and/or indecipherable to the consumer who has paid the bill.
Theoretical example with concrete details: Suppose you had Netflix, and you suddenly noticed it was much slower, but other some other quick technical checks you perform show your network speed is okay. You call up your ISP and customer service says it is probably a problem at Netflix's side -- call them up. You file a complaint with Netflix. But what really happened is the ISP is in negotiation with Netflix for an added payment to "ensure" good consumer experience. To make their point, they reconfigured their network to slow down all Netflix traffic. Does that sound hunky dory to you?
It's a really bad analogy because when you're buying fast food, you're paying not just for food, but also for the speed at which it'll be prepared. In that regard, opting to pay extra to get your burger faster is pretty much the whole point for the fast food industry existing. People seeing net neutrality portrayed in this manner might conclude it's not such a bad thing.
The problem that net neutrality tries to address is that the customer has already paid for a certain level of service. You've paid for 100 Mbps, and the ISP should be required to deliver it to the best of its ability. Period. There should be no fast lanes because what specific site data the customer wants included in their 100 Mbps is none of the ISP's business. By throttling Netflix, the ISP is defrauding the customer by not delivering the 100 Mbps the customer paid for.
The correct fast food analogy to internet fast lanes is that if you order a cheeseburger, you will have to wait longer for it to be prepared than if you ordered a hamburger. Because the dairy farm has not paid Burger King a fee for selling the slice of cheese, the restaurant is deliberately making it more inconvenient for customers ordering dairy products. This makes clear what the ISPs are trying to do - extorting suppliers by delaying delivery of something the customer has already paid for.
I think he thinks these companies are trying to get in the spotlight.
Chick-fil-A you can try to make that case since the owner dared to voice his opinion during an interview but that's only fair if you hold all the companies that came out in favor of gay marriage as just as agenda oriented.
Hobby Lobby is in a different situation as they were not trying to hit the radar. A bunch of people started protesting and making allot of noise even though Hobby Lobby did actually pay for many forms of birth control. Unfortunately with that protest crowd it's give us all for free or you might as well as give us nothing.
Hobby Lobby is in a different situation as they were not trying to hit the radar. A bunch of people started protesting and making allot of noise even though Hobby Lobby did actually pay for many forms of birth control. Unfortunately with that protest crowd it's give us all for free or you might as well as give us nothing.
I'm angry with Hobby Lobby more due to the fact that they decorated their headquarters with artifacts stolen from Iraq during the Iraq War/ISIS.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
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Only with uniform prices. Say, revenue of McDonalds from Russia doesn't reflect their popularity there, because if they charged the same prices as in USA, they'd be without customers.
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Hobby Lobby is in a different situation as they were not trying to hit the radar. A bunch of people started protesting and making allot of noise even though Hobby Lobby did actually pay for many forms of birth control. Unfortunately with that protest crowd it's give us all for free or you might as well as give us nothing.
I'm angry with Hobby Lobby more due to the fact that they decorated their headquarters with artifacts stolen from Iraq during the Iraq War/ISIS.
If what you say is true, then those artifacts are likely safer at Hobby Lobby than they are in Iraq. Were I an Iraqi who cared about my history, I might even be happy about this.
Net Neutrality as it was written is pointless and is anything but what it should be. I really wish people would realize that - it doesn't fix the problem and makes it seem like the issue is private companies running amok, instead of the real issue being seen: there is extremely little competition in the last mile, especially in rural areas. This has to do with what others mentioned - access to poles, monopolies from both cities and large multi-tenant units, etc. This isn't about traffic prioritization, it's about lack of competition due to regulations/laws/case law.
Further, the law itself did absolutely nothing in making sure that companies can't effectively "prioritize" traffic anyway, see #1 below.
1. Only artificially limiting bandwidth via rate shaping, etc is covered by the old law. Technical "limitations" are not. You can't require an ISP to setup more peering points, increase transit, etc. ISP's use transit (generic traffic) and peering (sending traffic to a specific company.) Most major companies like to peer since it is generally far, far cheaper than paying for transit. If Comcast is peering with Netflix and only has a 100 mbps connection to them, but the actual bandwidth required from Netflix should be more like 1000 mbps without causing slowdowns, they can simply not facilitate increasing that. It costs money (to Comcast and Netflix) to increase that bandwidth between each other, so who pays for it, especially if that utilization is heavily one-sided? Same scenario will happen, but, a different "cause".
2. Having something labeled "Net neutrality" does not make it so. The only reason people haven't left the incumbent carriers in droves is because they have no other choice in many areas. You remove the barriers to competition and it will fix this situation without having the federal government needing to pass pointless laws.
3. Net Neutrality was passed in 2015, how many years prior did the internet exist and the world did end...
The question was how to measure "where a chain has concentrated its business" not "popularity". Popularity could be one way to look at that question, but it is not the only one.
The moment Burger King announced they were executing a Tax Inversion with the Canadian company Tim Horton's, they went from my favorite fast food to the subject of a lifetime boycott of their business by myself. By doing the inversion, they externalized their costs on the American tax payers. I have not set foot in one of their restaurants since then. Never again will I do so. They have the right to run their business how they see fit and I have the right to vote with my feet.
In the 1880's, NCR added extra health and safety features for the workers, like chairs, and an on-site doctor to deal with accidents. Almost no other company did this. But this wasn't done because of any social agenda or liberal leanings, instead the president felt that happier and healthier workers were better workers. It's an old idea that still applies.
ISPs are at the mercy of what Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon charge them, since those guys own the pipes needed for broadband.
I'm sorry, but no ISP doing real business resells Comcast or AT&T. It's just too expensive and limiting. They get a pipe from a real backbone provider. Even the major non-cable, non-telco ISP in my town goes through a commercial provider and doesn't just resell Comcast.
The last mile in each city and town was installed over many decades with the encouragement and subsidy from local governments, waiving complicated rules and rights and way.
You have no clue what the franchise process used to be like, do you? I can tell you for a fact there was no waiving of complicated rules or rights of way. Before the states co-opted the franchise process, the cities could put whatever kinds of rules they wanted into a franchise agreement.
Even Google, with all its resources, has pretty much given up trying to compete in the local ISP market.
And that's now, where the "complicated rules and rights of way" aren't complicated anymore. Why did they give up? It cost too much.
this isnt about FCC - its about local and state regs that prevent non incumbents from pulling new cable on existing poles.
And federal law pre-empts any such state or local law by requiring municipalities to issue second, third or even fourth franchises on the same basis as the first, and none of them can be exclusive. If the city lets the incumbent on a pole as part of the franchise, it has to let the newbie on the pole when it issues the franchise to them.
this single BK restaurant is "the internet", or monopoly gateway to is.
Which is what makes the ad ridiculous. In real life, you would walk across the street to McD, Wendys, In and Out, Burgerville, Subway, Jimmy Johns, or any of a number of competitors. Or change ISPs, which might mean actually looking in the phone book to find one and not accepting the meme that your ISP is a monopoly.
The number one place that there are issues is utility poles.
Someone should invent a wireless internet delivery system ... oh wait.
One touch make ready is a regulation that allows a new players to move aside existing cables to make room for their own on the condition that they do not harm existing cables or interfere with the competitor's service.
Prove that I damaged your cable when I moved it. It was corroded and fell apart all on its own. Your installer didn't tighten that connection so it came loose when I moved the box. That wedding ring break in your hardline was there before I even started. And, of course, no incumbent would sue just because they could use it as a delaying tactic.
Letting people move other people's stuff is not a good idea. Changing the law to require faster turnaround is the correct answer.
this single BK restaurant is "the internet", or monopoly gateway to is.
Which is what makes the ad ridiculous. In real life, you would walk across the street to McD, Wendys, In and Out, Burgerville, Subway, Jimmy Johns, or any of a number of competitors. Or change ISPs, which might mean actually looking in the phone book to find one and not accepting the meme that your ISP is a monopoly.
What you need to understand is that there is only one other place to eat in a 50 mile radius and they have the same policies. Also, the city prohibits opening any new eateries.
False. I have a doctor's note specifically saying that I MUST eat Burger King every day. Or was it 'MUST NOT'? I always forget. Damn amyloid plaques.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
That's flavor you were wiping off. Makes my mouth water just thinking about it.
I wasn't confused at all. It makes a good case-example of Net Neutrality via Burger orders.
Up here in Quebec (Montreal), BK is renovating their stores, are able to provide a good wopper trio quickly, in a competitive price (compared to McD), and it can be tailored to your liking.
Five can dine at BK for what it costs to dine at McD.
Both claim their hamburgers are made of beef and no filler.
The McD quarter pounder used to be 4 oz of beef and then the bun and the dressing,
Today it seems to be a total weight of 4 ounces, including the dressing and the bread. Smaller and more expensive McD vs BK when you have to feed 5 kids and two adults
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Also, the city prohibits opening any new eateries.
The city has no authority to prevent a new ISP from doing business there. None at all. In fact, why would they? They'll get the business taxes from the new company. Perhaps that is why there are so many ISPs currently in operation?