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Dutch Intelligence Agents Watched Russia Hack the DNC (volkskrant.nl)
Long-time Slashdot readers Agilulf, Sara Chan, and wiredmikey -- plus an anonymous reader -- all submitted the same story. Agilulf writes:
Dutch hackers from AIVD (their intelligence agency) infiltrated Russian hackers, had access to their CCTV system, and followed them for more than a year, watched their attack on the DNC, provided the proof to the U.S. intelligence community that Russia was behind those hacks and the stolen emails, and were disappointed with the response from the U.S.
The Dutch agents also watched Russian agents breach a non-classified network at the U.S. State Department in 2014, where the Russians then sent a phishing email to the White House, successfully stole login credentials, and then accessed email from embassies and diplomats.
"Three American intelligence services state with 'high confidence' that the Kremlin was behind the attack on the Democratic Party," according to the article, which adds that that certainty "is derived from the AIVD hackers having had access to the office-like space in the center of Moscow for years."
The Dutch agents also watched Russian agents breach a non-classified network at the U.S. State Department in 2014, where the Russians then sent a phishing email to the White House, successfully stole login credentials, and then accessed email from embassies and diplomats.
"Three American intelligence services state with 'high confidence' that the Kremlin was behind the attack on the Democratic Party," according to the article, which adds that that certainty "is derived from the AIVD hackers having had access to the office-like space in the center of Moscow for years."
So the emails were real. Not fake.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Does this change anything about the undisputed authenticity of the emails we saw? No.
I want to say "I hope the DNC has learned a valuable lesson about email and network security," but that would imply I think the DNC is capable of learning from their mistakes.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm023...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
> behind those hacks and the stolen emails
No, the senders and authors were behind those stolen emails, the Russians just released them.
With all the shenanigans the leaders of the democrats deserved to lose.
Trump however didn't deserve to win.
If that was true they would have fixed whatever security hole within the first month, not sit there and get hacked for a whole year.
What does it matter who hacked the DNC? There's still no proof that this hack was the source of the emails given to Wikileaks, the legitimacy of the emails was never in dispute, and it's the contents of those emails that got them in trouble, not the hack.
The "Russia hacking scandal" was that they "hacked the election," a claim for which absolutely no evidence has been provided.
There's still no evidence that there is any tie between Russia and the Trump campaign, and this does nothing to further it.
This is a giant nothingburger. It tells us nothing and means nothing.
oh yes, lets not dare tell the truth
Sure Boris, do,you really think anyone doesnt know youre a Russian troll, pushing the tired Seth Rich lie, is boring bullshit. yawn.
I think it's pretty good of wikileaks to let us know that shit.
If you want us to know the RNCs dirt maybe you should hack them.
Wait until Muller nails the Trumpers, then you will have to come up with another ludicrous propaganda lie, that nobody but RWNJS believe, being the most stupid gullible people on earth.
It was all state hacking to watch the state hackers hack states with state hacks on all sides!
Such hacks! Much state actors!
Many hacking! Total Gibson!
wow!
that certainty "is derived from the AIVD hackers having had access to the office-like space in the center of Moscow for years."
Or maybe the hackers used social engineering to convince the landlords that they worked for the Kremlin. Or freelance and sometimes work for the Kremlin, but not always. Or the office space isn't in fact always only for groups working for the Kremlin.
Personally I'm ambivalent about this entire situation, but dislike how everyone seems to be jumping to one conclusion or another.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
The Dutch are rather liberal so of course anything they say can't really be trusted.
#DeleteChrome
Re-instate Hillary Clinton as President, now !
That's not how impeachment works. The vote was still real.
I have told you so. DUTCH rule is upon you!
There is a referendum upcoming in the Netherlands about massively expanding what the intelligence agencies are allowed to do. Any information about Dutch intelligence in the coming months should be viewed in that light. The government is trying to paint them in as positive light as possible. Given that nothing they say can be verified, be careful what you believe.
How does anyone know whether to believe any of this stuff any longer?
It seems to be that all these "cyber espionage" stories consist of impossible to verify leaks (intentional or otherwise) about other impossible to verify leaks. I guess it probably is true that some emails were leaked by someone, but after that everything could be no more true than the contents of a John le Carré novel and the latter would be a better read!
The treason is provable. Hillary was dumb AF but she didn't side with Putin.
We were outraged, I tell you, to learn about Russian's hacking our systems - how could they! - while we were hacking their systems.
Note that the whole story is kind of regarded as a bullshit story in the Netherlands, due to certain unlikely premises and holes in it, aimed at getting new laws through a doubtful senate, which would give them much more power.
If I am not mistaken, this is the arm that used to be the Militaire Inlichtingendienst (Military Intelligence). They were pretty good, but also kept secret out of sight of Parliament. When they came to light they were merged with the existing counterintelligence agency BVD (Binnenlandse Veiligheidsdienst, Internal Security), which did have a Keystone Kops reputation.
So, take it with a grain of salt, indeed, but don't dismiss it outright.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
My favourite part of this story - which I heard retailed with a perfectly straight face by some BBC presenter - is the webcams with the nice view of Red Square. Because all highly secret Russian hackers must, by law, occupy rooms with a view of Red Square. Indeed, they are probably lodged in the Kremlin - just as the NSA has its offices in the White House.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
And Hitler was elected too.
In fact, the parallels between Trump and Hitler and quite significant...
Haha, little trumpite with panties all in a tight knot :-)
Na zdarovje, comrade!
I may be skeptical, but the timing of this disclosure is impeccable
Here's someone who very obviously never attended the Civics class that's required for graduation from high school in the US.
No he wasnt. Hitler became president because the actual elected president died.
Donald J. Trump hates Hillary Clinton
Donald J. Trump collaborated with Putin to hack Hillary Clinton's email server
Donald J. Trump IS GUILTY AS HELL
Re-instate Hillary Clinton as President, now !
Others have dealt with your legal ignorance. However there's a different, more important issue. Obama was President and Hillary Clinton was secretary of state in the US at the time that Trump was building up his cooperation with the Russians. They may not have directly caused but they have to take full responsibility for the takeover of the US government by hostile actors. None of those people, Trump, Hillary or Obama should ever be allowed near your government again. Anyone who worked with them should be viewed with suspicion. More or less the entire RNC should be sitting in prison for collaborating with and supporting a known traitor. The DNC is not as directly visibly guilty yet but should be under criminal investigation and excluded from the political process.
For the future the USA needs to look to Sanders or one of the third party candidates. Otherwise you will remain in the same cess-pool forever.
Treating other people/services with this kind of disdain is what ultimately sinks countries/organizations as large as the US. Eternal rule number 1 of all warfare (hot & cold / physical & electronic): Never EVER underestimate the other party - even if he is you ally and even if is appears to be small/undeveloped/inferior compared to yourself. History has many many many examples of people/organizations/countries that failed to do so and paid very dearly for their mistakes.
If Trump gets impeached, we will not be getting Hillary... We will get Mike Pence, who is probably 100x worse than Trump.... So be careful what you wish for.... You should look up presidential line of succession. It would be Mike Pence -> Paul Ryan -> Orrin Hatch. All nice gems in themselves. Also it's highly unlikely there was any collaboration. What probably happened was some hackers obviously did hack the DNC, then gave that info to someone, then that someone who possibly was Russian, approached Trump team and said hey I have juicy emails showing DNC corruption, would you like it? And Trump said, hell yeah, let me see. Collaboration would have to show that they were working together on the plan and execution. Which clearly was not the case.
Like pig season: year-round!
There's no proof behind any of those murders, only coincidence.
Hillary isn't the one trying to shut down any negative publicity of her, is she? That's Mr. Tramp, the reality star Russia elected as our president.
The free market doesn't mean the least government influence in the market. It means a market in which there is the most benefit for consumers. And net neutrality was beneficial in this way. Now the only winners will be ISPs, who will collude more and raise prices more to gouge American consumers more.
And George Papadopoulos boasted to diplomats about Russia having the email hack data months before it was leaked to Wikileaks, which explains his Moscow visit earlier in the year.
March 14th 2016 Trump names him foreign policy advsisor.
March 19th he meets the Russian agent in Italy.
March 21st the Russian do phishing emails to the DNC.
March 24, Trump boats of Papadopoulos his new foreign policy advisor.
March 31st, second meeting with the Russians, this time in London.
April 18th, Papdopoulos explains his contacts to Russians in a security meeting
April 26, Skype meeting with his Russian connection
April 27, he's told they have some dirt on Clinton, he emails a Trump campaign official saying Putin wants to invite them when the 'time is right'.
And on and on. co-ordinated treasonous attack on a democratic state.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-timeline-george-papadopoulos-indictment-20171030-htmlstory.html
The "Russian Hacking" didn't accomplish anything close to the
near civil war that we're having now over it.
Wake up people. You're are tools being played. Are Americans
that pathetic that an unsubstantiated hacking will destroy the
whole country?
There was a Twilight Zone episode where Aliens switched out
the lights and shut off a block of people. Then they sat back
and watched as chaos slowly erupted. The Aliens were
bemused by the results of their little experiment on Humans.
The "Russian Hackers" are laughing there asses off.
Maybe the "Dutch" too.
Snow flakes, you need to melt your stony hearts and clear the
dust out of your ears. Read the $%!#$ Wikileaks. Get a clue.
You're the ones
Making America Split Again.
This comment section makes CNN commenters look like Rhodes scholars.
Net neutrality repealed? When was net neutrality passed?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Ok so if the US intelligence agencies knew the DNC had been hacked why didn't they do anything about it? Why didn't they tell the DNC there was a hacker in their network?
Were they worried about the hackers finding out that there was someone watching them and then shutting off that particular source of information? Was there some issue with a government agency sharing information with the operations of a political party during an election?
The other thing that hasn't been answered is why this happened. Why were the Russians interested in the DNC? Did Russia stand to gain something by influencing the election in a way that caused Hillary and the Democrats to lose?
Or else you're just spouting propaganda like everyone else.
1) Hitler never became president. He was Reichskanzler and named himself Fuehrer after Hindenburg died. The position of president was either left vacant or abolished (don't remember that exactly, but I'm sure Wikipedia knows).
2) It is not because in the US the president is the most powerful one that this is also true elsewhere. In 1930s Germany, the Reichskanzler was the key position. Just like today Merkel is not president of Germany, but Bundeskanzler, Most people outside Germany have no clue who currently is the German president, but they sure know Merkel (assuming that they follow international politics even remotely). Similar in the UK: the Queen has the top position, but the woman who counts is May. Same in many more countries.
3) Hitler became Reichskanzler by winning "democratic" elections.
We've seen many, many high profile and pretty sophisticated hacks from what your leader refers to as "shithole countries". Proof that you don't need a vast intelligence agency or the resources of a superpower to mount successful cyber attacks. (Disclaimer: I'm Dutch)
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
you would be amazed... read the original article...and dont forget... we are at the AmX exchange...
My favorite quotes:
See that "Preview" button?
Really?
Where are the "many, many high profile and pretty sophisticated hacks" coming from Somalia, Sudan, Congo, Liberia, Haiti...? For the life me, I cannot seem to remember a single high profile or sophisticated hacks coming from any of those shithole countries.
...Instead of taking responsability as a country for having elected the Donald
You realize that writing part of you post in Russian *greatly diminishes* your credibility. Right?
Where did all those Snowden for president sigs that once were so popular on /. go?
North Korea
Oh - I get it - It was only the *African* countries that were shitholes. He just has a bigger button than NK.
Trump is an embarrassment to the US. The sentiment that because the Netherlands are not the US they cannot *possibly* have scored an intelligence success on a front which the US leader does not even recognize exists.
Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
The DNC email hack wasn't a hack, it was a phish. Podesta clicked a malware link in an email and gave them access. Doesn't sound too sophisticated to me, sounds more like morons without proper training in the DNC.
Funny isn't it how the DNC/Clinton/Podesta never denied the contents of the emails that were released, instead they did what they always do when the truth is revealed, the deflect from the message and attack the messenger.
This propaganda is published NOW because there is an upcomming referendum (which the government already said it would ignore) about more dragnet powers for the Dutch intelligence. This sounds like a stunt to get a referendum result in favor of the dragnet powers. The government seems to have learnt about the previous 2 lost (and also ignored) referenda about the Ukraine and the EU "constitution".
Njet!
Hillary is a bit less open about it, but after Seth Rich was murdered the others who knew stuff got the message. When Mueller gets an "accident" I'm ready to believe that Trump has gotten as dirty as Hillary.
No, she wants war with Russia so it is a good thing she'll never be president. In 2020 or 2024 she will be too old and fragile, she had health issues already.
> I think it has been said there were a few fake ones in between, or that there might be, but the breaki.n happened and was done by russians was never disputed.
Sure it has. We know Podesta got phished because there's a damned phishing email in the dump. Wikileaks claims to have gotten it from some other source, however. There's no clear evidence about who did it and no, don't point me at the Crowdstrike or Trend Micro reports, neither one presents anything worth mentioning in the way of proof. Trend Micro just says we agree with Crowdstrike's conclusions and Cloudstrike says this is clearly the APT for Fancy Bear, but oops, we didn't even bother to notice that our IPs are for TOR and we had no idea the old copy of P.A.S. we found was some Ukranian freeware. The "17 intelligence agencies" include the damned Coast Guard and the actual report, which nobody ever bothers to link to, doesn't draw any conclusions other than some hand-waivy things about how we think hacking us is totally something Russia would do. There's no actual, technical content whatsoever. All the reports are "sources say" whatever you want and nobody ever links to the damned reports because they're too embarrassing, all the links go to past coverage pulling the same wool over our eyes.
Now, as for the "there were a few fake ones" nobody has shown any evidence of that. In fact, Donna Brazille, who went on CNN to claim that was quickly proven to have lied when the emails were validated via DKIM. In older Slashdot comments, you can find out how to pull the key from Hillary's own damned DNS to validate that.
So enough propaganda. You guys keep repeating the same nonsense. My inside sources say that your inside sources are full of crap.
Right now, I'm just waiting until /pol uses /r/deepfakes to make a fake Trump porno tape to troll you guys again. It should be just a matter of time now.
Maybe, but it would have been the first world war caused by a woman. That must count for something.
You must be a die hard liberal, defending The Narrative (tm) at 403am. The RAR preserved timestamps say it was locally USB copied.
Considering how the FBI was pro Clinton, and anti Trump at least in terms of what we know. Then you have the fact this all was happening under the Obama administration. One hast to wonder given the Dutch accounts how interested the Obama administration or the FBI was about any of this until Trump won? I guess it wasn't a big until until your candidate didn't win.
Hitler was only 'elected' to anything in the sense of being the leader of the party that won the most seats in the election. Hitler bullied President Hindenburg into making him Chancellor (Prime Minister, essentially) despite the Nazis being only the plurality party, then bullied Hindenburg into signing the Reichstag Fire decree suspending civil liberties, then had all opposing members of the Reichstag arrested for conspiracy to make way for passage of a constitutional amendment effectively making him dictator.
Now notice how literally none of that - or any realistic alternative path - is even REMOTELY possible in a country where one vindictive judge in Hawaii can gum up the federal government for weeks.
And that's only the most obvious reason why the "Trump is the next Hitler!!" shit has always been monumentally fucking retarded.
All you can know is that some email were stolen. NOTHING tells you that the email which were found later correspond to those stolen. And since most of that stuff is not encrypted, it is *trivial* to add fake stuff in it. There is no chain of custody. Any leaker stuff which is not covered by an encryption key in a separate place is *suspect*.
I also note that from all what is said,m all the hacking, all you retained "the email were [possibly] not fake" I can only say , i am betting you are one of those ultra partisan type which do not care as long as either their party wins, or more dirt is thrown at the other party.
This is truly why a two party system is toxic.
I have a very simple, and very pointed question.
What, exactly, are the hot, Top Secret contents of those emails?
Remember what the state department does - It has diplomats. They talk. They talk a lot. They have no need of Operationally Secure Information. And while a lot of spying goes on from diplomatic missions, the spy's chain of command does not run through the Department of State, nor do they use email. Think about what the State Department does. Then ask yourself, what kinds of secrets they will be a party to. EG: Who is who's mistress. Which children of what diplomats are doing drugs or other things that can be used against that diplomat. They don't get the nuclear launch codes - they have no need of them. They do not get troop movements, order of battle, or deployment orders. Again, they have no need to know.
Now, let us turn to the facts of the matter.
HRC used a private email sever under their control.
President Trump's daughter and son in law used Yahoo accounts, whose servers are not under their direct control. If you know anything about email systems, then you'll know that any Yahoo engineer could view the contents of those accounts by simply logging in with their credentials.
Was it wrong for HRC to use a private email server? Yes. Absolutely.
Was it wrong for others to use Yahoo accounts? Arguably even more stupid than what HRC did.
Let not your political desires affect your judgement. To put it like my grandmother used to say, if a shirt is dirty, then it's dirty. Don't try to convince yourself a mustard stain is any worse or better than a lobster bisque stain.
It's still dirty.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Because Europeans are not your friends, dear US . This is a competitive world.
Exactly! The Russians only did what Hillary should have done: release the emails!
So, the Dems are reduced to the sales pitch of "we are easily phished"?
The crime of stealing and or obtaining the emails vs the crimes revealed by the emails. Im not happy with Trump admin, but i still think Hillary deserves to be hanged. Democrats who hate Trump, OK. Democrats who love Hillary or the Clintons? Not OK.
What probably happened was some hackers obviously did hack the DNC, then gave that info to someone, then that someone who possibly was Russian, approached Trump team and said hey I have juicy emails showing DNC corruption, would you like it? And Trump said, hell yeah, let me see.
This seems the most likely to me. My concern is, if this interaction is on video/audio, how far will Trump go to assist the Russians so it never comes out?
For all that long rant, you missed the point. Impeach Trump and you don't get a do-over, you get the line of succession.
Yes.... I've known /. from when it was still inhabited by mostly intelligent people - albeit sometimes uninformed/misinformed ones -w.r.t. any topic at hand with whom one could have a debate based on logic. Not anymore... Since the 2016 election, the only kind of argument one sees here is "Crokked Hillary is shit" and "Stupid Trump is an idiot"
Or how /. went form being great to rubbish..Just like the entire country is doing (and has been doing for a while already)...
That's some kind of n1gger russian in latin.
As per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cozy_Bear, in 2017, Cozy Bear attacked Dutch ministries and the AIVD. Why would Cozy Bear go after such a small and insignificant country that has no capabilities at all (as you seem to think)? Maybe it's because they figured out that the AIVD had previously broken into Cozy Bear and had helped the US to block Cozy Bear's efforts to break into the US government.
How many times does it need to be said? Crying about the popular vote is just moving the goalposts from the election rules that have been in place since Thomas Jefferson.
I fucking hate Trump, but he got the ELECTORAL VOTES necessary to win the Presidency. If you don't like that, then work to not nominate the only person from the Democratic Party that had enough negatives to actually lose to that asshole. Or, convince the DNC to actually campaign somewhere between the mountain ranges not named Chicago. Or get them to stop trying to sell out the middle class to Wall Street yet again. Or using the middle class's children to protect "American" (read: corporate) interests abroad in the guise of national military service.
Those last two sentences apply equally to the Republican Party, if not more so. Just to be somewhat Neutral, here's an incomplete list of things the Republicans should stop doing:
- bloviating about balanced budgets and government spend while treating massive military spending as a sacred cow that must be increased while cutting everything else
- ridiculously craven jingoistic politics and the treating of hard working immigrants that just want a better life for themselves and their families as a punching bag in order to toss metaphorical "red meat" to the fraction of ignorant racists and bigots in their "base"
- pretending that religion has any place in the federal government whatsoever
Also, impeachment has a definition, with procedures defined behind it. "We don't like him" is not included in "treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors" and you should be glad for that, or every single President would constantly be having fringe cranks from the opposition party drumming up real impeachment resolutions in Congress rather than the joke speeches and stunts we get today.
If he's actually committed any of those crimes, and you have proof, call your representative and hand over the evidence. Otherwise, wait for the Office of the Independent Counsel to complete their investigation and issue their report. Please. I'd love to see that guy being perp lwaked from the White House by the FBI.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Why was this modded down? That's been the Clinton way for decades (see Kenneth Starr as the best example).
You are a n1gger, and nobody cares what you think. Run for president and win if you want my attention, you useless noname piece of shit.
Haiti is in Africa now?
Didn't Trump say he wanted more immigrants from Norway?
Collusion and collaboration isn't necessary - all that is necessary is INTENT to solicit foreign aid/items of value for an election campaign - that itself is illegal and crime, and has already been demonstrated by the emails between them.
The Dutch have seen repercussions, there were serious hack attempts at several ministries and shortly before the elections all use of computers for the counting was banned because there were strong indications of Russian attempts to corrupt the system.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
At this point it is better to side with Putin than with some low life scum sand n1ggers and "freedom fighters" in ISIS. If you really want to suck some n1gger cock like obama - you can easily migrate to shitty hindustan, nobody stops you. But I won't allow you to turn my country into shitty hindustan.
Possible, it's not exactly a recent thing and only now it gets in the press.
At the same time here we see proof significant (counter) surveillance is possible without the dragnet legislation certain people in our government want.
The fact they have ignored the 'outcome' of the other two referenda is great news, first of all they were/are only advisory referenda, secondly both had their outcome seriously flawed by misinformation of the public, possibly or even likely by Russian influence?
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Second, I think a 'secret service' type of organization keeps its methods secret as much as possible. In this case they seem all to eager to broadcast their achievements.
If you read the story, they say they are now shut out of Cozy Bear's systems, so they don't have much to lose.
The end of the report also strongly suggests that the reason they are shut out is that the americans burned those methods.
The last paragraph of this report by another newspaper also suggests that not only did the americans burn those methods, but they did it on purpose to protect trump:
As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused great anger in The Hague and Zoetermeer. In the television programme College Tour, this month, AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President.
As spoken by the magical and all knowing crystal ball.
Yes, Africa is a shithole. Every single country. No exceptions. What about it?
Correct. Trump is not the next Hitler. There can be no "next Hitler", as the 1930's are long gone and the US is not Germany. And anyway, despite being a despicable character, Hitler had leadership qualities (that he abused badly) while Trump still has to show any sign of actually leading.
Having said, the US are evolving into their own version of what became Nazi Germany: an authoritarian state in which Trump actually does believe that the state officials have to be loyal first to him and only then to the US. Given his age, Trump will never see that which he hopes for turn into reality (although that does not matter to him, as he lives in his self-centered dreamworld anyway), but if nobody stops the trend, then this is where we are heading nonetheless.
Using a judge in Hawaii is not a valid argument. In the early days of Hitler's regime he also had to deal with opposition Which he promptly did. 12 years later many Germans woke up and said "how did this happen" and "but we did not know". But they were part of it all - even the ones who truly did not know - and they were the ones who let it happen.
It's called Eternal November.
You mean road's collars.
1934, under title II of the telecommunications act of god damn 1934, which you would know if you'd bothered to read up on the subject before opening your damn mouth and driveling out your stupid uninformed opinions.
You should read up on the concept of a common carrier. Net Neutrality is simply an extension of common carrier status. We've had it for a loooooooong time. You really should read up on this.
................. Jesus Christ. Who believes this stupid conspiracy theory BS? Morons.
Never mind that this has NOTHING to do with Clinton's emails..... Moron conspiracy theorists can't even get the right thing to drivel about....
This is NOT just some Russian hackers! Government employees of Russia were doing this over a year and probably another government ALSO confirms this--- it took this long for us to even find out a 3rd party spy network confirmed it all. They know more than is FINALLY being disclosed -- and think about the damage this is doing: spy orgs do not want anybody to know what their capacity is because that weakens them. This is punishment for the Dutch - who sat back and watched it all happen leading to the disaster President the world worries about more than "rocket man."
For all that long rant, you missed the point. Impeach Trump and you don't get a do-over, you get the line of succession.
I know that, you get Pence and then Paul Ryan, Orrin Hatch, Rex Tillerson.... (bit like a monarchy isn’t it?) ... but I don’t care about that. The only two points I was trying to make are, a) Trump’s presidency is many things but it is not the will of the manority of the American people and, b) Trump is so incredibly dirty and corrupt that he could be impeached in a New York minute if them that sit in Congress wanted to. Maybe there is also a third point c) the electoral college is about as relavant in modern America as a flint handaxe and it should be abolished.
Is your every waking moment consumed by hate? What a wretched life you must have. The truth is both political parties only want power, we would be no better off with the Democrats in power.
Hillary lost because of the type of person she is. The contents of the emails confirmed that she is a viscous liar who represented only herself.
Unless people wake up and learn to think for themselves, there is no hope for liberty going forward. The politicians on the left will enslave you just as surely as the ones you hate.
Can slashdot remove the obvious shill accounts and upvoters?
You seriously have NO option. There is no such thing as an open spy network or agency. It is not something you can treat like journalism. It is dangerous because it's secret but it's also powerful because it is secret.
The only time you learn anything is from a whistle-blower or from a political move. They leaked this true story because politicians have the motive and power to HARM their own spy agency in order to push an agenda. They do not make up stories like this unless you have a dictator or totally broken government (like the USA, where big lies go unpunished-- remember Bush's fake WMD; they knew they'd get caught, nothing happened.)
Opposition parties and patriotic public servants are the ONLY thing you have to prevent such things. The best you can do is have whistle-blower protections and a lot of diverse oversight.
This story is TRUE because it is the perfect example to leak for a political agenda; also, likely Russians are involved in trying to influence Dutch politics too. Using the truth is more powerful; lies can be discovered. Any disclosure harms AIVD but this harm is minimal and also makes AIVD look good. Sure, spin is always added -- these are politicians... but they don't need to add much spin on something that is perfectly suited to their needs. Politicians KNOW the truth is the best tool and how to add on spin and lies to "enhance" it.
They know MORE which is not getting out. It could be lame already well known IP camera hacks let them watch and ID every hacker by name -- and some kid tipped them off to it and they just had 1 person watch all the video the kid gave them to verify it all and that is the extent of their capacity... they won't tell you that. They could be staffed with morons who are too stoned to think clearly... but the Dutch government is probably in better shape than the USA... again, opposition etc. capitalizes on incompetence.
wrong. getting information like that would be considered a financial support to the campaign.
which is illegal if it comes from foreign sources
If Trump truly wants to make this country great again, he should start by leading the country away from eternal November..But he himself is still living in and trying to relive November 2016.
The electoral college is a check and balance against gerrymandering. Of course, gerrymandering still won him the presidency. But don't blame the electoral college.
Why was this modded down?
Because it is bullshit from a brainwashed Trump zombie.
(sorry for posting as AC. I was moderating, and wanted a citation on the above. First I've seen it, and can't tell if it is fake news. But it is certainly interesting, and should be easy to prove/disprove.)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.co...
"The documents were copied on July 5th, five days before Seth Rich was murdered."
The electoral college is a check and balance against gerrymandering. Of course, gerrymandering still won him the presidency. But don't blame the electoral college.
There is no gerrymandering in presidential elections except the electoral college. It is an obsolete 18th century election result manipulation instrument meant to guard against precisely the kind of demagogue that Trump is. However, the electoral college hasn’t worked as intended for over a century because for it to work the college members would have to think for thrmselves and vote against the demagogue rather than vote like sheep for him. Presidential elections should be a one-man-one-vote, popular vote wins affair, end of story!
I don't think you understand impeachment. It IS we don't like you very much. That is all it is. The bar is you have to have 2/3 of the senate convict and that is a high bar. Impeachment is a political process. That is why even if the report comes back that trump laundered money for the mob, with our current congress, likely nothing will happen.
The reason Hillary lost the election was because her supporters were too concentrated in too few states.
When her husband ran for President in 1992 and 1996 he and his campaign understood what every 10th grade civics student knows, that we elect Presidents via the Electoral College, not popular vote.
Ken
In round numbers, how many immigrants in the visa lottery are from North Korea?
The infamous 'sh!thole countries' comment was with regard to countries involved in the diversity lottery.
Ken
Sorry, but if Trump said, "hell yeah, let me see," that's a severe issue as it not only indebts himself, a future sitting president, to a foreign power, but provides potential leverage in the form of blackmail to like, anyone on the planet. Because he can't help but say what comes to his mind.
I would state that this is something like murder, where actions prior and not directly involved in, equivalate to the act.
Correction, it was not the MID which caused a scandal, it was the Inlichtingendienst Buitenland (Foreign Intelligence Service). As officially we were not supposed to have a spy agency doing Foreign Intelligence, having it turn out that, well, actually, we did, that was a bit of a scandal.
The IDB, MID and BVD were merged into a single intelligence service, the AIVD (Algemene Inlichtingen- en Veiligheidsdienst, aka General Intelligence and Security Service).
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
I'm still amazed that the hackers were able to penetrate Podesta's iron wall of security on his gmail account - I mean he used a totally secure password of "password". Seriously, he couldn't even add a capital "P"?
Democrats all but encouraged the hacking of their servers - not actually, but nearly - as demonstrated by their weak security practices.
Ken
For example, Evan Mecham's 'trial' in the Arizona's Republic party controlled legislature was a joke and a circus. Everybody hated him and for good reason, but they found no 'misdemeanors.'
From Wikipedia: "Mecham was removed from office following conviction in his impeachment trial of charges of the obstruction of justice and the misuse of government funds – funds that Mecham maintained were private. A later criminal trial acquitted Mecham of related charges."
Yet, the Republics got rid of him because they wanted too.
Fifty years of Yippie! 1968-2018
It was great to watch Hillary say she wished 'all' the emails could come out, and her supporter said cheered her on. Then Trump asked whoever had the 'missing' to release them it was collision!
Ken
The fact that Crooked Hillary is shit" and "Stupid Trump is an idiot" can be symptoms of "eternal November" says a lot about the US electoral system and US election campaign habits. And what it says it's not sounding good.
'Top Editor' or not, I think you're a fucking idiot.
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
The only Russian words I know are "dos vadanya", and that's only because they said it in every cold war movie of the 80s.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Exactly, this is just another narrative in order to blackmouth Russia.
Again: where is the evidence this actually did take place?
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
Crapped out by Russians, promoted by more Russians, swallowed by dumb Americans.
Russian troll! Another example of Trumpâ(TM)s/Putinâ(TM)s troll army at work!
My goalpost has always been effective governance, and I don't think tweaking the election system to that end is something we should shy away from, nor is it something that hasn't been happening continually since the founding of this country. Gerrymandering has been in the news a lot lately, but it's an old, old word. Voter suppression has been in the news a lot lately too, but it also has a storied history in America, see poll taxes.
About the College. As initially conceived, voting was limited to male landowners over 21, measures that were intended to make sure the voters had some kind of wits about them. (Misguided, IMO.) To a similar end, the Electoral College was established. They were intended to be level-headed, educated gatekeepers, a check on the popular vote, so that if by some fluke a disastrously unqualified or malevolent actor wins, there'd be that final hurdle. There were also logistical considerations - the fastest way to relay a message was still wax-sealed parchment on horseback. Each state conducts its own election, sends their representatives to the College, and from there they convene for the vote that actually decides the President.
The logistical considerations no longer exist, and the College has utterly failed to perform its other duty as a sanity check. To me that makes a very strong case to get rid of it, even apart from the ideological consideration that it obscures the will of the people. Nobody knows who represents their vote in the College. Nobody pays attention to who gets put there. It's assumed that they will be a rubber-stamp for the will of the electorate, which it obviously isn't. It's one of the pieces of our government that locks us into the two-party system. Hopefully I don't need to explain the damage that has inflicted on our government and our society.
One example of that damage... Any attempt to revise the system to be more equitable to the people, is going to be painted as partisan whining, ironically by the same people who'd otherwise hate the College if they didn't have the impression it gives an advantage to "their guy".
oh, ah, we have some irrefutable proof here boys. pack up.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
Stop it Ivan, you're not fooling anyone.
And so delusional that you can't even recognize when someone is mocking you!
Get help. Really. You need CLINICAL help.
win an election, and change it, convince people and change it.
in obama's words,
you don't like what i'm doing? win an election.
Slashdot editors: Please leave that kind of waffle to Faux News. What is this neocon waffle doing on slashdot. Notice this is from some ' intelligence agency' the same kind of people that produced the Trump golden shower dossier. The only evidence being produced here is of the deep state manipulating public opinion. I don't believe Dutch hackers bugged Russian hackers, you see the Russian FSB isn't as incompetent as their US counterpart.
When you want something, you try all means. If you go and read the original Volkskrant article, you'll see that many things were tried, not just phishing.
Anyway the fact that someone who considers this story to be real used the word sophisticated for something that you may consider "just a phish" does not discredit the original story. Don't try to change the subject like that.
(To compare: my personal admin considers what I do for a living "sophisticated". Being an engineer, I personally consider it child's play. The stuff I did 10 years ago was "sophisticated" in my own book, not what I do now. But she'll still call it that and that does not turn her every statement about my work into a lie.)
This incredibly explosive "stuff" is... what... that the party leadership picks favorites and arranges things to promote them? Who didn't know this?
Which is not to say the selective phishing and leaking of one party's dirty laundry didn't have it's intended effect - massive press coverage leading to couple percentage points swing in the following election.
It isn't hard to understand. It isn't a tactic that hasn't been used before. The people who employed this tactic, certainly understood it, and are enjoying its runaway success while our government is paralyzed and becoming even more useless than it was. The only one who doesn't understand it... is you. So is that a crippling amount of willful ignorance, or paid shilling? The first would actually be worse. At least the second has some kind of rational self-interest, however shortsighted it might be to destroy ones own country.
Good post. Funny that you're currently at -1 Troll.
If only unicode on Slashdot worked so effectively.
Lol, because Hillary would have been the die woman to run a country in the history of the world? There have countless wars started by women running countries. Don't be so naive to think that for one second if America elected a woman president that there would any firsts in history other than America having a female president. Don't take my word for it, Google whatever you think Hillary would been the first woman in history running a country would have done, and see how many Monarchs have done it before.
It has everything to do with Hillaryâ(TM)s unsecured email server. But for the DNC leak, weâ(TM)d never know that the email server existed, or that Stonetear was trying to scrub VIP addresses from his logs, before the server was wiped. We now know President Obama himself emailed at least 20 Special Access Program documents and had his own account. If Hillary goes down, Obama goes down. Therefore everyone has to go into defense mode. A prosecution will expose it, so there canâ(TM)t be a real investigation or even a crime. Thatâ(TM)s why Comey and Strzok scrubbed âoegrossly negligentâ and wrote the result before the first interview (which was conducted by Strzok, the one whoâ(TM)s texts are now being discovered). Thereâ(TM)s your conspiracy and textbook obstruction of justice.
The lede is being buried here. The friggin story is that the DNC had their friggin hand on the scale, not just their thumb, for HRC.
...effective governance...
The Roman Catholic Church has survived for millenia. Very effective. Maybe we should emulate their manner of selecting leaders.
In all seriousness:
The electoral college is a check and balance against gerrymandering. Of course, gerrymandering still won him the presidency. But don't blame the electoral college.
There is no gerrymandering in presidential elections except the electoral college. It is an obsolete 18th century election result manipulation instrument meant to guard against precisely the kind of demagogue that Trump is. However, the electoral college hasn’t worked as intended for over a century because for it to work the college members would have to think for thrmselves and vote against the demagogue rather than vote like sheep for him. Presidential elections should be a one-man-one-vote, popular vote wins affair, end of story!
As much as I enjoy seeing a frothing-at-the-mouth temper tantrum from a disappointed Hillary lover, I must point out that you don't get to change the rules after the game already been played. In the real world, losers don't get "participant" trophies that pampered millennials have come to expect. The electoral college is working as intended. The great compromise helps the lesser populated states from getting railroaded by the population centers. When you finish jumping up and down ranting about how CA, NY and the high population cities should be the deciders for all the rest of us, maybe you will wise up and see why we don't want to turn our power over to the nanny staters, crybullies, and the irrational numbskulls that think Hillary should be "reinstated". You're going to need a Constitutional amendment to drop the electoral college and I don't see it being ratified by the states you disagree with. So, in short, tough shit loser.
However, the excuse being offered for the "sh!thole" remark is that it was referring to the poverty of the countries, not their ethnicity. In which case, yes indeed, North Korea would fall into the "Trump sh!thole class", even though North Koreans are not emigrating to the U.S.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
...the electoral college. ...is an obsolete 18th century election result manipulation instrument...
It's amazing how so many apparently smart people do not understand the "electoral college." It lessens the chance that the President is selected only by the voters of a few metropolises. Anyhow, if you didn't learn about the "electoral college" in school you can learn about it at Wikipedia (assuming there's a good article for it there that hasn't been vandalized by anti-American ideologues).
In all seriousness:
No it wouldn't be... How much monetary value would you put on DNC emails? And it's not illegal to read it.
What would be illegal is if Trump paid for it.
Prevyet, tavarish!
(can't do cyrillic at \...)
It would only be illegal if Trump paid for it. Obtaining it for free isn't illegal and doesn't in-debt him to anything. Keep in mind that Russia didn't like Hillary, so I see no reason why they wouldn't provide this info for free.
What I think you're missing is that anyone nominated by the Democrats would have had the same number of negatives. The worst they could come up with were emails and Benghazi, two minor to moderate issues that Trump outdid in the first ten seconds of his campaign.
Hillary's problems were pretend, but the Republicans are awesome at pretend problems. Democrats think the answer is correcting the lies. It isn't. You'll never win at that game. It takes a thousand times the effort to debunk than it does to tell. It's a denial of service attack.
Obama gave people hope and change. Trump, in a comic book villain way, offered the exact same thing. Just focus on that and ignore that the Republicans and their incredibly efficient bullshit machine exist.
Collusion and collaboration isn't necessary - all that is necessary is INTENT to solicit foreign aid/items of value for an election campaign - that itself is illegal and crime, and has already been demonstrated by the emails between them.
Are you referring to Trump or Hillary soliciting? Because both solicited information from Russian sources through British intermediaries.
In the Hillary case they paid a strategic intelligence company who offered a former British MI6 agent with good ties to Russian intelligence to get dirt on Trump from the Russians.
In the Trump case a British publicist wanted to set up a meeting with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have dirt on Hillary.
Hey, buddy, it's OK, we were all 22 and libertarians at one point, but what you're doing is getting frustrated at the complexity of the problem and trying to simplify it to libertarianism, which certainly is much simpler and dumber and comfortable to think about. But please read more about the underlying issues before commenting.
Maybe you should explain why, because it's not self-evident. Wait, that would require analysis and thinking. Perhaps you're worried the analogy would fall flat on its face? So I'll just respond only what you said: (1) Survival of the state should be but one of a state's goals, and not the sole factor in judging its success, (2) The Catholic church's "citizens" are de facto governed by other states, (3) It no longer "survives" in any politically relevant sense in its homeland of Europe, and is on the way out in its last strongholds in Latin America.
badmouth not blackmouth. Don't you do an English spell check before you post?
Go die loser
...And you think libertarianism is impractical? It sounds like you're the one clinging to fantasies: the fantasy of a benevolent government.
With your terrible broken English, one would almost get the sense that you're the most likely candidate for being a Russian.
There is nothing but animated story for in that linked article. C'mon, at least in the movies they show telnet ping screens which is more believable!
It's amazing how so many apparently smart people do not understand the "electoral college." It lessens the chance that the President is selected only by the voters of a few metropolises. Anyhow, if you didn't learn about the "electoral college" in school you can learn about it at Wikipedia (assuming there's a good article for it there that hasn't been vandalized by anti-American ideologues).
Are you referring to the good old argument that the electoral college is gerrymandered '...to protect the little states...'? If the electoral college was meant to protect the little states it is failing spectacularly. If you take a look at where candidates campaign the most it is in a few key swing states. The small states get next to no attention.
Specifically it was invented to appease fear in the southern slave states that the northern states would hold more sway. This in hand with the 3/5ths compromise. A lot of the way things worked in the constitution in regards to the state level was because the north *needed* the south to play ball and the south knew it.
The electoral college is a check and balance against gerrymandering. Of course, gerrymandering still won him the presidency. But don't blame the electoral college.
There is no gerrymandering in presidential elections except the electoral college. It is an obsolete 18th century election result manipulation instrument meant to guard against precisely the kind of demagogue that Trump is. However, the electoral college hasn’t worked as intended for over a century because for it to work the college members would have to think for thrmselves and vote against the demagogue rather than vote like sheep for him. Presidential elections should be a one-man-one-vote, popular vote wins affair, end of story!
As much as I enjoy seeing a frothing-at-the-mouth temper tantrum from a disappointed Hillary lover, I must point out that you don't get to change the rules after the game already been played. In the real world, losers don't get "participant" trophies that pampered millennials have come to expect. The electoral college is working as intended. The great compromise helps the lesser populated states from getting railroaded by the population centers. When you finish jumping up and down ranting about how CA, NY and the high population cities should be the deciders for all the rest of us, maybe you will wise up and see why we don't want to turn our power over to the nanny staters, crybullies, and the irrational numbskulls that think Hillary should be "reinstated". You're going to need a Constitutional amendment to drop the electoral college and I don't see it being ratified by the states you disagree with. So, in short, tough shit loser.
Hehe... Did you know that it is possible to win the electoral college and become POTUS with ~27% of the popular vote behind you? If that ever happens I hope whoever does it is a Clinton just so that I can hear you shriek so loud with outrage that your shrill, high-pitched girly scram shatters armour glass.
There is no gerrymandering in presidential elections except the electoral college.
Gerrymandering happens before the election and it has little to do with the electoral college process. The electoral college just means that the actual deciding votes are cast by electors rather than the tallied votes themselves. Some states use a winner-takes-all approach, some do it proportionally. Neither really has anything to do with how a state is divided into its districts per se - it's up to the state decide how electors are chosen.
Really? In 1934? It wasn't in 2014 when President Obama urged the FCC to implement net neutrality by reclassifying ISPs as common carriers?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
ISPs were never common carriers until an FCC regulation change in 2015. Note that prior to that executive action (and I say executive action, because it was taken by the executive branch at the urging of the President), net neutrality had been debated in Congress and had not been defined. Common carrier status for ISPs has only been around for a few years, and was not a legislative result, but a purely executive, regulatory action.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The MSM has reported so many lies about Trump. There has also been excessive spin, lies by omission, and laughable sensationalism.
Let's get some names and put people under oath. Let's see some videos.
BTW: when is a story about Trump "news for nerds?"
The IDB, MID and BVD were merged into a single intelligence service, the AIVD (Algemene Inlichtingen- en Veiligheidsdienst, aka General Intelligence and Security Service).
Nonsense. MID became MIVD. BVD became AIVD.
Only their sigint groups became a joint operation.
Even *if* there was any evidence to support this Russian hacking story, that *still* would not implicate Trump.
To implicate Trump, you have to prove that Trump himself was somehow part of the hacking (duh).
And good luck proving that. If Russia wanted the hack the DNC, why would they need to conspire with citizen Trump?
Just because you don't like somebody, does not mean that person is guilty of treason.
> In the Hillary case they paid a strategic intelligence company who offered a former British MI6 agent with good ties to Russian intelligence to get dirt on Trump from the Russians.
Again - lying by omission.
Isn't it also known that the RNC started giving money to this strategic intelligence company to get dirt on Trump, which was then taken up by DNC and others?
Look at Nixon, it's not (the severity of) the crime, it's the cover-up. Trump impeached himself the second he fired James Comey. That is, under normal circumstances. Seeing how the republicans are happy looting the coffers and demolishing the institutions, I assume that they will not remove their puppet moron.
Hillary had 25.6% of the population voting for her. Trump had 25.5%. Please stop falsely claiming the majority of Americans supported Hillary. They don't. And Trump became President with less that 27% so of course it's possible. Ignorant people like you make Hillary's side look dumber and dumber the more you talk. I'm no fan of Trump, so please shut up so you can stop making me look bad.
Why are you in love with the Clinton family? What makes you think their kids should be presidents in the future?
So posting AC to provide a challenge (Hallo oud collega's, YYMMDD658 zal we genoeg hint zijn.).
All I can say is "Hahahahahaha". :-) and also, beautifully executed!
lmao yes, the brave Slashdot will surely save the world...
I agree with Bannon that the June 2016 meeting was treasonous. Those present had evidence that Russians had hacked Americans, and were planning to use what they found for their own political purposes. This should have been immediately reported to the FBI. If, as I believe, Trump Senior was aware of what was going on, he was an accessory to treason. Whether this can be proven is another matter.
This is a news item carefully crafted to hide the fact that Dutch intelligence saw Russian hackers attack the DNC in 2014, not during the 2016 elections. Unbelievable the level of propaganda we are getting blasted with every day. No source is immune to peddling this shit!
TFA contains no supporting quotes and no attribution. You know, the little details that supposedly separate "journalism" from "fiction". In fact, it concludes with this statement:
"The AIVD declined to respond to de Volkskrant's findings."
Down with democracy in the Netherlands! Hurrah for government by unelected nomenklatura beholden to big capital alone!
New theory:
Slashdot, because it has the most sophisticated and robust moderation system of any major internet forum, has become a sort of R&D battleground for the rapidly evolving art of information warfare.
All the major and many of the minor geopolitical players have their 50 cent armies marshalled here. Yet many of us civilians - of varying degrees of disinterestedness - also remain.
It is our "hearts and minds" that the information warriors seek to win.
This PRO-TRUMP advertisement was brought to you by your friends at Comcast. Comcast, where our motto is "bend over and take it".
You Hillary apologists crack me up. You try to project your hysterics and histrionics onto the people who can reason and can lose gracefully. I suspect you are a coddled millennial who cried on election night and still reach for your security blanket to soothe your tears. Don't you guys realize to the rest of the country you look like a bunch of spoiled two-year-olds who just got their toy taken away?
Personally, I supported Bernie, but I never threw temper tantrums like you losers do when Hillary's sycophants rigged the election against him.
I went to Starbucks this morning, and VLADIMIR PUTIN made the barrista give me LUKEWARM COFFEE! Curse those meddling Rooskies!!!1!
You clueless idiot, how can you be on the internet and not realise there were regulations before 2015?
It's like you're claiming that because there was no common carrier of packets there was no Internet...
Utter foolishness.
It lessens the chance that the President is selected only by the voters of a few metropolises
Because of course those people shouldn't count as much as people who live in rural states.
> In the Hillary case they paid a strategic intelligence company who offered a former British MI6 agent with good ties to Russian intelligence to get dirt on Trump from the Russians.
Again - lying by omission. Isn't it also known that the RNC started giving money to this strategic intelligence company to get dirt on Trump, which was then taken up by DNC and others?
The Republican never Trumper's paid for it during the primaries. Hillary and the DNC paid for it during the general election.
Where is the lie by omission. There is no refutation of solicitation by Trump nor Hillary. You merely identify a third group. The third group adds to the first two, it does not exonerate either of the first two.
..and the hack of Podesta's laptop via phishing.
We already knew this and we already knew the FBI/DNC *IGNORED* it.
The US is the only shithole that thinks it isn't one. It's kind of cute, but also a terrible embarrassment to itself.
There were already rules and regulations in place. Right wing idiots like you fought against them so the FCC had to get involved to make them stronger. Then you decided to cry about it and fight those rules too.
Just like you're fighting against net neutrality now when places try to make rules again after you dismantled the old rules.
You just don't understand, the 2015 rules replaced the rules from before, removing the 2015 rules won't go back to before because the before rules were ruled invalid dummy. It can't go back to before, there will have to be something different but you're too partisan and stupid to realise.
You mean when she sold the uranium producer to russian firm? And got more than 100 000 000 usdollars to Clinton Foundation?
Bill only got about 500 000 usd for his "talk to russian businessmans" in Moscow.
If someone has such "tapes" it would have come out past year, because the DNC is searching for all dirt concerning Trump.
Why wouldn't they?
Apparently I misremembered that bit. I was going from memory.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Lesbians would have gotten a chance to be raped in ensued anarchy, to fulfill their subliminal desires.
Dumbass, their desire is to rape YOU
If you're going to advocate chucking a feature of the system, you should have a replacement for it, and be able to articulate why the replacement is better than what exists now. We have every indication that constant focus on the four-year circus distracts people from paying attention the people who do the *most* to affect their lives: state and local representatives. Having a direct popular vote for president will exacerbate that problem. We'd be far better off we went back to having the legislature select the president.
If he's actually committed any of those crimes, and you have proof, call your representative and hand over the evidence.
Treason: handing the Russians top secret intel. I believe you can easily find proof on any number of real news sources as Trump himself claimed to have done so. While Trump has the power as president to declassify something and share it, congress can still find it treasonous and charge him for it.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Also, impeachment has a definition, with procedures defined behind it. "We don't like him" is not included in "treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors" ...
Congress defines what "high crimes and misdemeanors" are and there is no reason to think that the court would overrule them instead of saying that it is a "political question".
and you should be glad for that, or every single President would constantly be having fringe cranks from the opposition party drumming up real impeachment resolutions in Congress rather than the joke speeches and stunts we get today.
Fringe cranks in the opposition party routinely file for impeachment proceedings.
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What a load of manure. First, it's Dutch intel for god's sake.
Next, they supposedly showed that the Russians lacked [Hillary's?] set-up and got from it precious secret info re State Dept passwords, etc.....AND YOU GUYS WONDER THAT THERE WAS NO OFFICIAL US RESPONSE???!!! What should the US have said to the world about this.....OTHER THAN NOTHING?
R U guys alive or are you bots?
Dennis Morrisseau
USArmy Officer [Vietnam era] ANTI-WAR
LIBERTY UNION founder
Lieutenant Morrisseau's Rebellion
FireCongress.org
Second Vermont Republic, VFM
POB 177, W. Pawlet, VT 05775
dmorso1@netzero.net
802 645 9727
You don't understand impeachment. The left has mislead you. It's not a political process. Nor should it be. In the case of Clinton the Democrats clearly ignored their duties and didn't convict him. In that case there was a federal judge that was charged with the same thing and they convicted him just two weeks earlier. That is, lying in court. That was a very sad day and today I have a feeling they'd convict him.
That's ok, because if Trump was impeached, it would mean that the Dems had won back congress, so Trump & republican successors would be seriously hamstrung.
Or nobody hacked the DNC. Or the DNC hacked itself. Or DNC hacked Dutch hackers that hacked the Russian hackers that hacked the DNC. Or Russian hackers hacked the Dutch hackers hacking the DNC. Maybe enough of this junk already?
"not the will of the manority of the American people"
Firstly, please remember that their is no official "popular vote" metric. This metric is for shits and giggles only. The rules of the competition were clear and Hillary got out-played. Hypothetically speaking if they were vying for the popular vote then Trump would have played his cards differently and the winner cannot be determined from the outcome we have.
But, on to your statement. Approximately 58% of the eligible voting population voted. That means approximately 93 million eligible voters did not vote. It also means that with Donald Trump garnering 46.1% of the total votes and Hillary Clinton garnering 48.2% of the total votes that neither of them represent the will of the majority of the American people. Not by a long shot. Clinton would need approximately 47 million more votes to represent the majority will of the full body of the eligible voters. She'd need even more to represent the will of the American people. This will remain true until the USA makes voting compulsory.
"the electoral college is about as relavant in modern America as a flint handaxe and it should be abolished"
As per my point above. It is a fantasy to believe that if you suddenly compete on the popular vote that Clinton would win. It is naive to think that Trump wouldn't play a different game in this scenario.
Actually, it's "do svidaniya" - something like "see ya", but more formal, and literally means 'until [we] see [again]', "until we [meet] again"; the same as "Auf wiedersehen" in German, and "au revoir" in French.
The reason Hillary lost the election was because her supporters were too concentrated in too few states.
When her husband ran for President in 1992 and 1996 he and his campaign understood what every 10th grade civics student knows, that we elect Presidents via the Electoral College, not popular vote.
I think you could fit Hillary's supporters in a football stadium. The vast majority of people who voted for her held their noses and voted against Trump. Had the Democrats nominated just about anyone other than Hillary they would have won.
That wouldn't help much, would it? https://www.merriam-webster.co...
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.