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Trump Team Considers Nationalizing America's 5G Network (axios.com)

JoeyRox writes: "Trump national security officials are considering an unprecedented federal takeover of a portion of the nation's mobile network to guard against China, according to sensitive documents obtained by Axios." This is based on a PowerPoint presentation Axios has in their possession. Two options are described -- a national 5G network funded and built by the Federal government, or a mix of 5G networks built by existing wireless providers. A source suggests the first option is preferred and essential to protect against competition from China and "bad actors". The presentation suggests that a government-built network would then be leased out to carriers like AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile.
The PowerPoint presentation was produced by a senior National Security Council official, and argues that the move is necessary because "China has achieved a dominant position in the manufacture and operation of network infrastructure," and "China is the dominant malicious actor in the Information Domain."

It also suggests America could export its secure 5G technology to protect its allies, and "Eventually this effort could help inoculate developing countries against Chinese neo-colonial behavior."

383 comments

  1. Good by sexconker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This would in theory make carriers compete for customers everywhere, and increase signal availability and quality for everyone.

    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      See? This proves wishy-washy no spine or actual ideology "Republicans" like you only bash government-run major programs when they don't suit your previous interests.

    2. Re:Good by GerryGilmore · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree! This nonsense of selling spectrum to the deepest pocketed existing carrier should end. Let the government build out the network and lease - at RAND pricing - capacity to those carriers ready, willing and able to do so in any given area. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Capitalist Pig(TM) and proud of it, but - you know - pigs get fat and hogs (existing carriers) get slaughtered. As they deserve to be...

    3. Re:Good by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds more like something that will be another big government project boondoggle, but nonetheless a nice way for Trump and fellow Congress cronies to funnel money to some of their friends and backers to build out this network.

    4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't include penalties for failures or overruns, and when they do it's toothless butter. Until this produces a service it would just be a major handout of US taxpayer money to corporate holders. There's no guarantee it has to actually work or deliver on anything.

    5. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And it'll be built entirely from devices manufactured in China. So pointless and porky, right in the Trump wheelhouse.

    6. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And of course, as its leased out government owned, there of course would NEVER be any domestic spying without all that pesky warrant and "just cause" right.. I mean that would have nothing to do with that.

    7. Re:Good by bigwheel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While I normally cringe at the having the government in control of things, this seems like a good idea to me too. Information routes, like roadways, should be something that the government provides to its citizens, rather than having much of the country at the whim of one or two carriers, who happen to own and control the spectrum. Plus, it pulls some of the Net Neutrality concerns off of the table.

      It will be interesting to see how they plan to pay for it.

    8. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And of course, as its leased out government owned, there of course would NEVER be any domestic spying without all that pesky warrant and "just cause" right.. I mean that would have nothing to do with that.

      That can be adequately remedied with VPN and other secure tunneling methods. If it means that rural areas of the United States will finally receive decent broadband it just might be worth the trade.

    9. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that all of the equipment, and the phones everyone uses, is all made in China.
      So the whole thing is completely pointless and accomplishes nothing.

      "China is the dominant malicious actor in the Information Domain."

      If this is actually true, then end all imports of Chinese-made goods. Otherwise, STFU.

    10. Re:Good by Angelwrath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, and as a telecom employee I've thought this is the much better way forward. Spectrum sales create walled gardens. With one national network, each tower has access to full spectrum for maximum bandwidth, fewer towers are needed so the infrastructure spend is dramatically less, and the government can set a price and allow anybody in.

      The alternative is good, too: Instead of spectrum sales, each carrier builds out a portion of the network, and has to contribute a minimum contribution like, say, $6 billion USD in infrastructure, and in return they get access to the whole network and customers everywhere. For that price they get access to the network and X number of customers. Then have a tiered pricing structure where, for each additional tower they add to the network, they get access to Y additional customers. If the figures are set carefully, this incentivizes both growing carriers, and large carriers spend more. The result? An even larger network, with more coverage in suburban and rural areas. And potentially new carriers and competition to drive prices lower.

      Now... take this idea and apply it to a national fiber-Internet network, too. Private networks create uneven playing fields and require higher prices because each competitor has to over-build (where there's competition allowed of course). Incentivize carriers to be able to expand their customer base by reaching more and more people with their product, instead, and you'll see as close to 100% affordable broadband access as possible.

    11. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sounds more like something that will be another big government project boondoggle, but nonetheless a nice way for Trump and fellow Congress cronies to funnel money to some of their friends and backers to build out this network.

      I hate Trump more than most, but this seems on the face a good idea. That is not to say the federal government won't screw it up.

      In short, spectrum is finite. You want phones to be as simple as possible to cut costs, so having everyone share the same hopefully fairly large set of spectrum makes sense. They just need to have every company leasing out fractions of cells on an as needed basis. You might need an additional penalty of you leased space for a month and never used it, just to avoid companies tying up spectrum.

      Spectrum in remote areas might be cheap, or possibly more expensive, if it is used in place of real broadband.

      I'm not sure I buy the security angle though. Phones are likely fast enough to encrypt conversations end to end real time, but maybe our government doesn't want to implement that :)

    12. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I like the analogy to the freeway system.

      Good broadband should be available all over the USA, just like the postal service and the highway system. It will make rural communities relevant again.

    13. Re:Good by Excelcia · · Score: 1

      Holy Lord, that is the point. The whole idea behind nationalizing the network is to protect against US networks using compromised Chinese components which they are concerned would make (are making) the network vulnerable to their eavesdropping. Which is particularly rich, considering that the US government has been forcing US manufacturers to embed weaknesses into their networking and telecom equipment for years. *cough*CISCO*cough*

    14. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just makes it that much easier for the government to siphon-off any data they want to and control what you can do or access on it.. ya.. sounds every good to me /s

    15. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Let the government build out the network"
      The government doesn't build anything. The government is just the largest general contractor on the planet. The carriers who are currently building their own network infrastructure will just become well paid government vendors while still maintain a fair amount of leverage over pricing and availability. And for god's sake I wish people would stop thinking that the government is the answer to every problem. In case they have not noticed the government is broken and incapable of contributing anything positive to their constituents or the country as a wholes. And their dysfunction has nothing to do with who is President. Our elected representatives do nothing but attend campaign fund raisers, running for election, and conducting endless investigations that have nothing to do with improving the country in any sector. And some folks should actually study up on the powers the US President actually has and compare that power to the legislative branch. Congress has no term limits and have some politicians who have held their office for over 20+ years. Congressional members have no limit on the amount of money they can accept while running for election or sitting in office. These are the same people that control the government purse which they can wield in their on going political bitch fights. And these are also the morons who are charged with creating the countries budget and are lucky if any of them could balance their own check book. If all the social warriors endlessly bashing the President focused 10% their angst on the people actually responsible for the government meltdown maybe things would get better. Every one knows Trump is an idiot so all the protesters should count their efforts as a win and start going after those who are really responsible for bending the US public and giving it to them hard.

    16. Re:Good by sexconker · · Score: 0

      I'm not a Republican, you moron.

    17. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Fools! If you give up 5G to guard against China, you lose 5G and become China!

    18. Re:Good by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 2

      The cell phone bill that gets $30/mo more expensive every year doesn't help, but this is the proper solution to net neutrality: it's a utility, treat it as such. Nationalize 5G and the ISPs will get scared and straiten out or get nationalized too.

    19. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Yeah ... right .. OK
      So the government would let VPN's operate on "their" network?
      You would only be able to have a VPN if it was a government supplied VPN with all the required backdoors built in.
      But hey .... you could finally get to listen in on Hillary's plans...

      Idiot.

    20. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you keep on acting like one?

    21. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      You're making a big assumption: The government can implement the network competently.

      Consider healthcare.gov.

    22. Re:Good by 4wdloop · · Score: 2

      They did decent job with highway system, no?

      --
      4wdloop
    23. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      look, supporting the government/democrats is one thing, while supporting one of their proposals is another. he merely stated that this is a good thing. stop trolling, please.

    24. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The American hi-way system is one of the best in the world for sure. Same with US airports. I think it's vital for a good economy to have efficient travel and that includes ip transit.

    25. Re:Good by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

      I had the same thought, but the downside is heavy: a "secure" network with the surveillance built right into it.

    26. Re:Good by plopez · · Score: 1

      That was built by contractors. They were supposed to police themselves.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    27. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The American hi-way system is one of the best in the world for sure. Same with US airports.

      You haven't been in many other countries, have you?

    28. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "China is the dominant malicious actor in the Information Domain."

      It's ironic that the actual dominant malicious actor in the information domain is claiming this. One would have to be incredibly naive to be worried more about the Chinese government than the US government, especially when physically in the US.

    29. Re: Good by cfalcon · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Eh, I can't imagine they would build it from Chinese parts if the explicit worry is Chinese interference. There's a trusted foundry project for a reason, and it's not because we can build stuff more efficiently than they can.

    30. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you really think Donald Trump is an "idiot," then you're TRULY an idiot.

    31. Re: Good by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      ACA was force on the nation as GOP refused to actually work with them. Then the GOP has done everything to destroy. Yet, if we go back to BEFORE ACA, America's deficit increases a great deal.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    32. Re: Good by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      This would also enable NSA to have full access to 5G. Of course, they already do, so this is not as big of a deal.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    33. Re:Good by mwvdlee · · Score: 0

      Considering it's a Trump thing, it's probably going to be a "only one carrier per region to lower government expenses" deal.

      --
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    34. Re:Good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The government is competent at most of the things it does, you just don't hear about it because "XYZ doing fine, nothing to see here" isn't a very good headline.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    35. Re:Good by slew · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure I buy the security angle though. Phones are likely fast enough to encrypt conversations end to end real time, but maybe our government doesn't want to implement that :)

      As illustrated by the latest Strava revelation, sideband/meta-data information is quite useful and end-to-end encryption often doesn't protect against leaking this information. Things like Tor reduce the leakage of this type of sideband, but as we also know, actual implementations like Tor cannot be perfect (nor the users that use the technology).

    36. Re:Good by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As long as the digital highway is as transparent as the highway system. What it contains, how private it is, how secure, warrants only invasion of privacy and state based leasing, leased state by state not nationally, to allow more competing companies. How the board are appointed, how builds outs ordered, upgrading, maintenance and repairs, call outs, all set regulation available for public discussions.

      They are also all crapping on about social media, how about a congressional library social media platform. Anonymous users names tied to real people with warrants required to uncover them, strict laws apply to comments including freedom of speech versus actual crimes ie threats and set rules equally applied, this as a bone fide, legal and validated, strictly hugely illegal to interfere with (no government paid propagandists, severe penalties for trying) public discussion forums. Can even have foreigners as long as the US government can identify them and they are tagged as such (country of origin), still anonymous because outside opinions are always useful, stuck in a bubble is a waste of time.

      So part of the digital highway could also be things like, safe universal email address, US political social media, search (with set rules, sorting and open source algorithms), shared library of congress content library (videos, pictures, stories and other stuff - more on that latter not time yet).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    37. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But failed with the railroad system which is a pretty good way of transporting large amount of goods.

    38. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The way I read such announcements is that the NSA has full access to all traffic on G5 networks.

    39. Re:Good by Freischutz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You're making a big assumption: The government can implement the network competently.

      Consider healthcare.gov.

      That is a double edged argument. There are plenty of examples from all over the world where private enterprise took over previously government owned and operated road & rail grids, water supply systems, electric grids, communications grids, public real estate assets, etc ... that gave these private parties an effective monopoly. They then let then let these things fall apart through lack of maintenance and investment while effectively taxing the hell out of citizenry. That last part is what has effectively happened in the US mobile and internet service sectors. The telcos have divvied the country up into competition free fiefdoms and are taxing the hell out of the citizenry for totally sub standard service. If I'm going to be taxed by anybody I'd prefer it be the government because I can oust those bozos every four years by voting them out out of office. Ousting corporate oligarchs takes billions of dollars and a hostile takeover.

    40. Re:Good by meerling · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't worry, the spy networks will be baked in from the get go.
      Of course, they're going to be there even if the government doesn't run the 5g, so it's not like trusting them is an issue. Just expect them to be spying. At least it'll cut down on the corporations doing it, the government usually doesn't like people trying to compete with it directly.

      Though if the government is doing the 5g, US hardware for it will be highly unpopular in other countries. They'll automatically assume it's got spyware in it if the government has a hand in it.

    41. Re:Good by meerling · · Score: 1

      That was mostly private industry.

    42. Re:Good by meerling · · Score: 0

      I guess you've never listened to his rambling and nonsensical speeches that can't even stick to one set of related subjects and are just as likely to contradict itself as not.

    43. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate Trump more than most, but this seems on the face a good idea.

      Don't let hatred make you unreasonable.
      Trump is behaving like a 70 year old child. When raising a child you encourage good behavior and discourage bad.

    44. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really?

      When has any technology managed by the government kept pace with what the free market provided?

      The only things that appear to are those that the government has been the only player in for more than 60 years. And they (Military and NASA) are so overpriced as to be ridiculous.

    45. Re: Good by magixman · · Score: 1

      Well maybe the concern is that if the government doesn't control the network that security concerns would drive carriers to implement end-to-end encryption that would make implementing FISA warrants difficult. The US has a legal right to monitor cell phone traffic with the limits of FISA courts.

    46. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See? This proves wishy-washy no spine or actual ideology "Republicans" like you only bash government-run major programs when they don't suit your previous interests.

      Yeah!

      People with sufficiently developed brains to generally believe one position is best but realize there may be significant exceptions, rather than adhering mindlessly to what the TV told them to at any cost, are scientifically impossible!

      The TV told me so!

    47. Re: Good by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      Yeah! This strategy has sure worked out well for the past 100 years where the public has allowed all the utilities a free ride on our poles... What could POSSIBLY go wrong if we duplicate the process for wireless???

    48. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In public he appears that way to make people like you think he's some kind of bumbling fool. And yet this a fool built a multi-billion dollar enterprise by having to negotiate contracts and construction with some of the most corrupt politicians and labor unions in the world.

      He knows exactly what he is doing both publicly and privately. There are many people who say that in meetings when the media isn't present he's laser focused on the topic at hand and grasps nuances that others miss.

      The man has been playing the media and people like you since he announced his campaign and you're all so arrogant and egotistical that you can't even see it.

      I'm always amazed how every Republican president is supposedly a bumbling fool while every Democrat one is supposedly some form of genius or superior human and yet in my over 50 years my life and society in general has always seemed to be better when a Republican was in charge.

    49. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Who is going to protect us sheep from DNA altering 5G?

    50. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes...yes they did

    51. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naw, either you believe in the free market and your dream, or you've been lying all these years.

      Can't have it both ways, retards.

      Captcha: endanger

    52. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well....In almost every country that has better networks than the US.

      It doesnâ(TM)t mean the gov build it... the government just have to own it.

      The premise is that you canâ(TM)t have every company digging up the roads and installing duplicate infrastructure.... internet cables are like electric cables and pipes in that way.

      So you end up with a monopoly either way.... so itâ(TM)s better that the government owns the asset and lease it out so you can have competition down the chain rather than the shit that the shitty situation in the US now.

    53. Re: Good by kelemvor4 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Citation or examples please.

      As usual you have no clue.

      I work for the government. We are incompetent assclowns.

      NOAA, NASA are the first that come to mind. Your department may be full of assclowns, but not all are.

    54. Re: Good by fortfive · · Score: 1

      Itâ(TM)s hard to say whether those services are overpriced, as thereâ(TM)s no good comparison available.

    55. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But But But, we have heard from republicans for decades now that government is bad at things, which is why we are not allowed to have universal healthcare. And suddenly they know how to act as a telecom? Remember Ma Bell?

    56. Re: Good by dog77 · · Score: 1

      Maybe competent, but it is easy to be complacent in a government job because in general there is less pressure and incentive to do better than the private sector because the competition and pressure is not there. I saw this when I worked for local street department. The long time workers on the department were very good at what they did, but when it came to the actual job of repairing the roads the private companies did it much faster with very good quality. I saw this in the military. There was some really smart technical people who understood the networking equipment in my company, but it was the contractors who were essential and who really understood how to make it work.

    57. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to mention the USPS, which despite constant bitching from the Right will still deliver to any address in the U.S. for the cost of a stamp, which adjusted for inflation is about as cheap as it's ever been and is still an order of magnitude less than what you'd pay a private carrier for the same service.

    58. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Based on what each party supports, I'd say the 'wishy-washy' distribution skews to the Republican side thiugh there's plenty of "bad apples" in both baskets.

    59. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And which is still incteibly useful and heavily utilized for freight carriage.

      It's only failed as a passenger network, and that is because it was largely supplanted by the success of the federal gov'ts own interstate highway system.

    60. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Multiple analyses have shown that had he simply taken the money he inherited the day his already wealthy father died and stuck it in a Dow-indexed fund, he would be a far richer man than he has become by "building his empire."

      Casinos are pretty much the only kind of business that is always profitable. Indians with GEDs routinely make money hand over fist running them. Trump with his fancy "Wharton" degree has run several onto the ground. That takes a special kind of stupid.

    61. Re: Good by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Can you mention such a country?

    62. Re:Good by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "something that the government provides to its citizens"

      Our federal government was instituted specifically on the premise that it granted nothing, but was intended to recognizedcertain inalienable rights.

      Now we're discussing how our federal government should 'give' to citizens that which we, citizens, are beginning to consider to be 'rights'. Like information channels.

      No, this is wrong. In fact, what we think of as 'rights' should be inalienable, and the Internet is not such a thing. Turn off the electricity and discover what 'rights' actually are.

      Now, fairness and honesty might compel us to ensure that the airwaves licensed to commercial enterprises for the purposes of information delivery be used in the public interest, and that be examined periodically, those enterprises be held to account for their performance, and perhaps sometimes changes made to encourage use for the public good, but to describe these as 'rights' goes a step too far. And if you've just thought that our federal government perhaps should not be in that business, well, you've got a good point. A good discussion to have. We might change things.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    63. Re:Good by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      It would also be more efficient - in the UK each operator puts its own masts up, and you regularly see masts with many different operator antenna in the same place.

      If a single operator built the network, they could build it a lot cheaper than having everyone build several.

    64. Re:Good by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like something that will be another big government project boondoggle, but nonetheless a nice way for Trump and fellow Congress cronies to funnel money to some of their friends and backers to build out this network.

      I hate Trump more than most, but this seems on the face a good idea. That is not to say the federal government won't screw it up.

      In short, spectrum is finite. You want phones to be as simple as possible to cut costs, so having everyone share the same hopefully fairly large set of spectrum makes sense. They just need to have every company leasing out fractions of cells on an as needed basis. You might need an additional penalty of you leased space for a month and never used it, just to avoid companies tying up spectrum.

      Spectrum in remote areas might be cheap, or possibly more expensive, if it is used in place of real broadband.

      I'm not sure I buy the security angle though. Phones are likely fast enough to encrypt conversations end to end real time, but maybe our government doesn't want to implement that :)

      In this case, it is just a matter of whether they can enrich all the people they want while still providing a respectable service, and if they can't, they can just say: Look what we told you: Government is always bad..... Sad..

    65. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever heard of OPIC? They actually make money...

      https://www.opic.gov

    66. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GOP may have refused to work with them on the ACA, but they owned the house, senate and presidency, so at that time they didn't need the GOP to work with them.

    67. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I work for the government. We are incompetent assclowns.

      ...sound like an improvement over private sector to me!

    68. Re: Good by jbengt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've worked for governments and businesses, big and small. Some of the large private businesses can give government a good run for the money on inefficiency and incompetency. In fact, I've never found governments to be particularly incompetent in my line of work (consulting engineer for construction projects), just very slow and inefficient, mainly due to government requirements on being fair.

    69. Re:Good by doconnor · · Score: 2

      "There are many people who say that in meetings when the media isn't present he's laser focused on the topic at hand and grasps nuances that others miss."

      I've never heard this from anyone but partisans. Can you provide examples?

    70. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, but one comment. Corporations ARE governments, just smaller versions. They make laws, spy on their employees, punish them if they do wrong, pay them money to live, provide healthcare, create labor, provide other services. Isn't that the definition of government?

    71. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Capitalist Pig(TM) and proud of it, but - you know - pigs get fat and hogs (existing carriers) get slaughtered. As they deserve to be..."

      You sir, are not a capitalist if you believe large companies should be broken up just because they are to large, in you opinion.

      The current method of selling bandwidth is working. Small carriers are more than capable of existing and growing while still undercutting the fat cats. This is how capitalism deals with companies that are to large to support their business. They get undercut by more nimbal competition. The government should only step in when competition has ended.

      I oppose this power grab by the executive branch. By running the wireless internet, they will have every carrier by the neck. Slowly eroding the competition until 1 "utility" company is left. It is far easier for a government to spy on companies it runs than it is for them to spy on companies who may lose face if they just hand over everyone's texts.

    72. Re: Good by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      Answering your question: electricity generation. Like it or not, the Tennessee Power Authority and the Bonneville Power Authority in the Pacific Northwest generate a shitload of electricity and wholesale it to the grid operators. Sure, there aren't really rapid advancements in that field like there are with telecommunications so it's not a perfect example (far from it, really) but it's an example of where the government has "kept pace" with the free market.

      The irony though: it's not like you would have federal employees out there standing up cell masts - they would contract the whole mess out to Verizon / ATT / Sprint to use existing cell sites, and give those telcos a nice big scapegoat for any customer service complaints about service quality.

      This is just a proposed government giveaway to the telcos, again. Big surprise. Instead of them footing the bill for the network rollout, the taxpayer does. And then they continue charging the shit out of us for access to it.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    73. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he is referring to fiber lines rather than cellular network...

    74. Re:Good by layabout · · Score: 2

      if you take an honest look, most social infrastructure (roads, schools, prisons, law enforcement, food and medical safety, etc) delivers better results than private industry. when government fails, it is usually from fake state actors starving the project of the money it needs to function.

    75. Re:Good by ipb · · Score: 1

      >It will be interesting to see how they plan to pay for it.

      Mexico will pay for it

    76. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Multiple analyses by people with far less money than he has.

    77. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Corporation has to make money to survive. It has to be innovative or it will be replaced by another Company. Government bureaucracy as it currently exists in the US is neither.

    78. Re: Good by hispeedzintarwebz · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know where you live where you have had positive interactions with the USPS. In my experience, you get what you pay for, and I barely get my 49 cents worth from the USPS. I'd rather pay $3 to UPS.

    79. Re: Good by chaboud · · Score: 1

      I think he labelled you a Republican because you actually praised something but Trump might do.

      Pro-tip: Trump is *almost always* wrong. If he was *always* wrong, his kids could use him to short stocks and run the table.

      Accordingly, yeah, this actually isn't a completely awful idea in principle. In practice? Given where we are now?

    80. Re:Good by Fetko · · Score: 1

      I thought it was Canada's turn.

    81. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Korea.
      Australia.
      Netherlands.
      Sweden.

    82. Re:Good by butchersong · · Score: 1

      Trump actually has a history of renegotiating contracts and saving a bit of money. It doesn't take much more than a willingness to be involved to do this but few presidents in the past have wanted to sully themselves with such mundane work. Take the recent work he did on the F-35 https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

    83. Re:Good by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I can't remember - where did the Internet come from again?

      Oh yeah, the US Government, though it was named ARPAnet at the time.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    84. Re: Good by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Pro-tip: Trump is *almost always* wrong.

      So he's wrong about being wrong?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    85. Re: Good by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Really? USPS delivers to my door 6 days a week, and drops off for Amazon on Sunday. UPS swings by at 10am on a Tuesday, and slaps a note on my door that if I want my package, I have to drive to a shady strip mall 3 miles away in another day or two and pick it up from an "unaffiliated" UPS Store.

      And when I tell the employees at that store that it's fucking bullshit that I pay to have packages delivered to my door, and they don't even let me sign them to be left when I'm not there, they tell me that they're not affiliated with UPS. At a store branded "The UPS Store". And that I should call a 1800 number, wait on hold for 20 minutes, and then complain. And, of course, this "unaffiliated" store is open like 9 to 6, and Saturday morning.

      All while a mile from my house USPS has a 24hr service center where I can bring my packages in, weigh them, affix the postage, and drop them off, and buy stamps and even snag some of the flat-rate boxes.

      I'm in the upper Midwest in a small city. The difference between USPS and UPS is very stark around here. UPS sucks balls, and USPS is pretty fantastic, even when there's 2' of snow and a -20 wind chill.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    86. Re:Good by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 0

      Yeah, a real American success story. "Wait, I've got it. I'll go bankrupt several times, stiffing everyone from banks and bondholders to Joe the Plumber. Eventually, nobody but the Russian mob will do business with me. Then, defying both common sense and self-preservation, I'll apply for the most highly-scrutinized job position in human history."

      What exactly did this idiot think was going to happen if he won the election, anyway?

    87. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, we want to make sure the network is only vulnerable to eavesdropping by the US government. With privately owned networks they at least need a bullshit FISA court to approve it.

    88. Re: Good by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Nice rant. If you sign up for a free UPS My Choice account you'll get much more control over how your packages are delivered, including (in most cases) the ability to "sign" for them in advance, online, rather than getting a note about a missed delivery. Other free options include redirecting the package to a neighbour or to a UPS location for pickup. You can also schedule a specific delivery window, though that isn't free. It's an invaluable service for anyone who doesn't generally have the option of waiting around at home to collect packages.

      Experiences vary by location, of course. My local UPS Store in Iowa has proven very helpful, and is open until at least 7pm, whereas (excluding self-service kiosks) the USPS facility is only open 8am-5pm on weekdays—standard working hours, in other words—and 10am-12pm on Saturday morning. If a package must be shipped "signature required", I'd much rather collect it from UPS.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    89. Re:Good by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      ARPAnet did indeed originate from within DARPA (and the universities), albeit with plenty of help from private contractors.

      However, the Internet isn't ARPAnet. Not even close. At most one might say that ARPAnet inspired the modern Internet, and laid some groundwork. The transition from a small, closed network of interest only to academics and the military to a worldwide telecommunications system relied on by billions every day is almost entirely due to private research and development. The designers of ARPAnet never intended that, and we're still dealing with the consequences (like 32-bit IP addresses, and zero concern for end-to-end security or privacy in most of the original core protocols).

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    90. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been in government and DoD IT for over a decade. (Prior was with small startup, then worked for Microsoft).
      Government and DoD get screwed by government contractors all the time. For example, one contract that comes to mind was for $2,000,000,000 for DoD. The official that signed it, "happened" to later get a job at the same contractor a few months later as a "consultant" for millions of dollars. (As a consultant, he didn't even need to show up for work). DoD later tried to cancel the contract, but the court said no way. For the $2,000,000,000 DoD got the worst piece of software I've ever worked with, which is saying a lot. For example, in the installation notes, it said that any other program was not allowed to be installed on the same system, specifically MS office or Adobe Reader... The reason, is the installer just did a xcopy of hundreds of random dll files to c:\windows\system32\

      If the government built a 5G network, it would be overly expensive, unreliable, and constantly being monitored by the NSA. Government is not good at doing things that require "logic".

    91. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the other way around too... Have a look at the NY subway was built and then managed..

    92. Re: Good by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      UPS swings by at 10am on a Tuesday, and slaps a note on my door that if I want my package, I have to drive to a shady strip mall 3 miles away in another day or two and pick it up from an "unaffiliated" UPS Store.

      In my state we have the opposite UPS problem, ring and run. This has spawned a whole cottage industry of "package pirates' who follow the UPS trucks looking for front porches where nobody is home at the moment.

      I would like to see USPS contract out access to their cluster package boxes to UPS and other private package deliverers. UPS could then extend the system by offering its own neighborhood lockbox system. Amazon is already using this concept in some laces.

    93. Re: Good by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The biggest factor slowing down government isn't "being fair". It's red tape placed to document transactions so fraud and theft can be identified and tracked. 90% of red tape is solely their to either eliminate fraud or make it easier to locate and prosecute.

      People that talk about cutting red tape are usually talking about making it easier to steal tax payer money and some of them don't even realize it.

    94. Re:Good by erapert · · Score: 1

      If I'm going to be taxed by anybody I'd prefer it be the government because I can oust those bozos every four years by voting them out out of office.

      That's where you're wrong.

      You might be able to cast a vote every four years but your vote alone doesn't change your situation. If you just change service providers (assuming that it's possible in the first place) then your situation is immediately improved.

      Furthermore, the TLAs (i.e. the FCC) do not change every four years because you voted for a new president or a new senator or whatever. So it's actually incorrect that you can oust the "bozos" every four years. There's a reason that the euphemism "revolving door" exists.

      To go yet further still: what exactly has changed when one party takes power? The rhetoric does, but not much else as far as I can tell. It seems to me that it's just more crap from a different butt hole and meanwhile the deficits continue and the debt climbs and the roads still suck and the same "corporate oligarchs" that you complain about are still abusing their monopolies (assuming their protection money is all paid up...).

      The real solution is two fold:
      1. Cut government power: this prevents them from creating or protecting monopolies.
      2. Break up the monopolies and end all protections for them thus forcing them to compete.

    95. Re:Good by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Spying will likely be less under a government run system. A private company can voluntarily (the only thing preventing them from doing so would be public backlash but Congress waived their requirement to tell you they'd shared the data and waived liability for doing so with the patriot act) hand your data over without a warrant, government run organizations can not.

      You would actually be far safer with a government run network in that regard.

    96. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure about that?
      There are more people who know how much/little hair Trump has than how much/little money he has.

    97. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Muslim Outreach" NASA.

      Yeah.. you are incompetent assclowns.

    98. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people say that, the best people.

    99. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sasktel the last government telecom in North America is superior to all competitors in its operating regions.

    100. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Internet is the world's largest government sponsored computer network.

      It outlasted all large scale private sector efforts, such as genie, prodigy, aol, and countless private sector bulletin board systems.

    101. Re:Good by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Why? No one is stopping the government from building any networks that it wants. But why prevent others from doing so? Are we afraid that the commercial sector might do so better and cheaper and put the government out of business? Would having some redundant nodes really be a bad thing?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    102. Re: Good by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      If NASA is so great why does spacex exist and why does it make NASA look like a bunch of hobbyists?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    103. Re:Good by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      It's almost like monopolies are bad and produce horribly expensive and shitty service?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    104. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Letâ(TM)s not forget TBayTel! Superior they are not government (municipal) owner they are. Oh! What about BMTS (Bruce Municipal Telephone System)? These are only what I know in my region, but I guess theyâ(TM)re âoethe onlyâ ones in my world too. Open your eyes.

    105. Re: Good by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Nice. If I do a bunch of shit that I shouldn't have to do and give away my personal information I can get worse service than I can get from someone else. How much does UPS pay you, shill?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    106. Re: Good by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      How much does UPS pay you, shill?

      Nothing. I'm just a satisfied customer trying to be helpful. I guess there really is no pleasing some people.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    107. Re: Good by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Sweden.

      Since I live there and we don't have it I wondered which countries do have it.

      Televerket (Originally Kongl. Elecktriska Telegraf-Werket) was created 1853 and owned and administrated the telephone, the TV and the cellular phone network of Sweden until 1993. 1920s-1980s in practicality alone though not in law (as in you could create a competing network I guess but would you try than the state already have one in place just about everywhere?)
      Sometime before 1977 they started to roll out digital cellular network and 1987 we had nation-wide coverage (first in the world)

      Frequency administration was moved out in 1992 to Post- och telestyrelsen (authority) and radio and TV was moved out to Terracom (stock company) the same year. 1993 the rest was moved to the (nationally owned stock) company of Telia.

      Year 2000 30% of Telia was sold and a lot of regular Swedish citizens bought stock.
      2002-2003 Telia join the Finnish telephony operator Sonera and becomes Telia-Sonera.

      2007 Skanova becomes Telia-Skanova and they do sell network capacity to others.

      Anyway as far as I know the copper network in Sweden is owned by Telia-Sonera but parts of Telia has been sold out so it's both national/public and private and as for how ownership of Sonera is I don't know.

      The operator Net1 own their own cellular network and Telia, Telenor, Tele2 and Tre all build and run their own networks but sometimes in co-operation with each other. So we have five different cellular network creators of which just one in part is national, definitely not a monopoly of either of the network itself or the services on it. We actually have 25 companies which offer services on those 5 networks but who don't own a network of themselves.
      https://www.induo.com/s/g/vilk...

      On the copper network you can get the actual service from others than Telia-Sonera too but I assume they charge quite a bit for the network itself.

      As for Internet connectivity there is xDSL on that copper network, there at-least was isdn, there's connectivity over the cable-tv network where the largest one with 75% Comhem previously was the one under Televerket so as such also created by the public/nation/government but also at-least three others, and then there's private and municipal and I guess also the government/public/Skanova copper or fiber Ethernet networks either for just one service provider or for multiple ones.

      As for where I live if I had copper telephony I assume that network would be owned by Telia-Sonera. But I don't have any.
      For my cellular connectivity I use Hallon and Universal-Telecom which use the the cellular networks of Tre and Telenor.
      I don't have cable-TV service but the network my apartment is connected to is Comhem.
      My copper Ethernet is connected to Bredbandsbolaget whom only offer their own services but the building is also connected to StadsnÃt which is a municipal network I could and likely should had switched to which offer plenty of services providers.

      So one can definitely argue much of that infrastructure was created and ran by the state (I used the word nation before but I won't go up and change it) but they don't own any such company fully any longer and they haven't had a legal monopoly and don't have a de-facto monopoly of it and as is me personally I can choose from 30 cellular providers on 5 different networks of which one was created by the state, a whole bunch of xDSL services over the one copper telephony network originally created by the state, one cable TV TV and Internet services provider from one cable-TV network provider which originally also was created by the state and finally Internet over Ethernet from I guess around 10 different service providers through two different ~fiber networks of which one is private (I assume) and one is a municipal co-operation between this municipality and the one south of this one.

      My mother is having her house conne

    108. Re:Good by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      If I'm going to be taxed by anybody I'd prefer it be the government because I can oust those bozos every four years by voting them out out of office.

      That's where you're wrong. You might be able to cast a vote every four years but your vote alone doesn't change your situation. If you just change service providers (assuming that it's possible in the first place) then your situation is immediately improved. Furthermore, the TLAs (i.e. the FCC) do not change every four years because you voted for a new president or a new senator or whatever. So it's actually incorrect that you can oust the "bozos" every four years. There's a reason that the euphemism "revolving door" exists. To go yet further still: what exactly has changed when one party takes power? The rhetoric does, but not much else as far as I can tell. It seems to me that it's just more crap from a different butt hole and meanwhile the deficits continue and the debt climbs and the roads still suck and the same "corporate oligarchs" that you complain about are still abusing their monopolies (assuming their protection money is all paid up...). The real solution is two fold: 1. Cut government power: this prevents them from creating or protecting monopolies. 2. Break up the monopolies and end all protections for them thus forcing them to compete.

      One small point ... monopolies can exist in the complete absence of any government at all so your supposition that government power is the key factor in creating monopolies is wrong. In fact, historically, government power has been one of the few things that broke up monopolies so you are going to need government power to end monopolies (because contrary to popular myth, the fairy godmother of the free market won't do it for you within an acceptable time frame) so if you cut government power you are strengthening the monopolist's power.

    109. Re:Good by erapert · · Score: 1

      One small point ... monopolies can exist in the complete absence of any government at all

      That's true. I agree.

      so your supposition that government power is the key factor in creating monopolies is wrong.

      In the case of telecoms that are using regulations to build and protect their monopolies I think it is true.

      In fact, historically, government power has been one of the few things that broke up monopolies

      This is true.

      so you are going to need government power to end monopolies (because contrary to popular myth, the fairy godmother of the free market won't do it for you within an acceptable time frame) so if you cut government power you are strengthening the monopolist's power.

      It's possible to give certain powers to the government and deny others.

      For example, the power to wage wars but not the power to summarily execute citizens without due process of law.

      Likewise, it should also be possible to limit the government's ability to stifle competition or support cronies while also giving the government the ability to judiciously decide what is or isn't a harmful monopoly and break it up.

    110. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And their money orders are affordable!

    111. Re: Good by NeoTubNinja · · Score: 1

      Because Elon needed something to do and was bored. Are we REALLY at the point where people are shitting on NASA because we hate the government so much we can't differentiate one part from another?

    112. Re:Good by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      >It will be interesting to see how they plan to pay for it.

      Mexico will pay for it

      No silly, when we arrest the FBI secret society members and disband the deep state, and confiscate the Pizzagate profits, Our soulmates in Russia will pay for it.

      Aided of course by framed copies of O'Blama's actual Kenyan birth certificate.

      Checkmate atheists!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    113. Re: Good by NeoTubNinja · · Score: 1

      Nice plug and antecdote. We all have them and yours is no different. I've moved about every three years since I was five due to being a military brat. Hands down, every location I've been, whether it's Texas, Georgia, Germany, etc. has always had a better USPS than UPS. I'm glad you've got everything figured out in bumfuck Iowa, but you should probably get more data points for your stellar insights into the package industry.

    114. Re:Good by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      I second your comment!

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    115. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government is competent at most of the things it does, you just don't hear about it because "XYZ doing fine, nothing to see here" isn't a very good headline.

      Absolutely false. A huge percentage of the US legal codes exist in violation of the US Bill of Rights. I used the plural deliberately: federal, state, and local government are all guilty with few (if any) exceptions. This is not competence, this is gross incompetence. Numerous fundamental rights - such as the right to ethical practice of law - are routinely violated. Every major area of law (meaning every subject you'll find a law textbook on) has serious problems.

      We see more and more examples of this. For instance, state governments are trying to get people to keep track of all of their purchases throughout the year so that they can pay sales or use tax on items. This is a violation of the right to not be subject to excessive bureaucracy and the right to not have one's time wasted by government or by the legal system - both universal and inalienable rights in any free country. It's also a violation of the right to ethical practice of law, where even the appearance of conflict of interest must be avoided. As legal professionals serve as well paid intermediaries between the public and bureaucracies - and the legal system - they have a huge conflict of interest with respect to the existence of laws that subject people to excessive bureaucracy and/or waste their time.

      Use tax laws have always been illegal - in violation of fundamental rights "retained by the people" under the 9th Amendment, and "reserved to the people" under the 10th.

      There are several additional conflicts of interest here as well. First, the money for fines (and the taxes themselves) is laundered into the government's budget, freeing up funds to pay the salaries and benefits of government officials. Second, sales taxes are regressive taxes and therefore are popular with the rich. These policies help ensure that money is available in the budgets of government that would otherwise have to be obtained by some other means - and thus reduce the demand for a progressive tax policy that would require the rich to pay their fair share (including on capital gains). The rich can be expected to make campaign contributions to politicians to support such policies. These politicians in turn have considerable influence over the career prospects of other government officials - thus creating a massive conflict of interest on the part of both groups.

      To be legal, all sales tax laws would have to require that the selling business keep track of the taxes - and no taxes can be collected otherwise. This is required by the highest law in the land - and no precedence to the contrary can alter that. But at least 10 states are breaking the law right now on this issue - and this despite the fact that the infringement of fundamental rights "under the colour of law" is a criminal offence under US federal law (as well as a violation of the oaths sworn by law enforcement and legal professionals, disqualifying them from engaging in the practice of law or holding any position of public trust or responsibility).

      Another issue is that the politicians have a vested interest in trying to fill their budgets without appearing to raise taxes - and the evidence clearly shows that they are willing to resort to illegal and even criminal tactics to do that. These is NOT the signs of a competent government - and it's just one example of a great many that have been discussed previously on this forum. Learn to use a search engine.

      It took the better part of a century (and a massive Civil Rights Movement) to eliminate the illegal "Jim Crow" laws: it will be interesting to see what it takes this time around. A competent government would have fixed this issue long ago.

    116. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You missed a source of corruption - and hence conflict of interest: local businesses.

      If they can make the process of filling out tax forms really painful, they can kill the Internet economy and go back to the old days. People will buy locally instead of going through the pain.

  2. Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Ah ha! See, I KNEW that guy is a damn communist!

    No wonder the russians love him!

    1. Re: Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Of course the working class voted for a communist. Who else would promise them a chicken in every pot and a chance to murder Jews?

      They easily believe lies.

    2. Re: Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You forgot the Godless Evangelicals who worship him and his false idols.

    3. Re: Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The popular vote difference was equal to two districts in LA plus one in NYC. You know, the reason why the electoral college exists? People living in Wyoming shouldn't have their elections decided entirely by distant arrogant elitist leftists living in New York.

      It's funny how cocksure you sound about November 2018. Eerily similar to how you sounded in October 2016...

      Maybe you should consider not being such a smug, condescending asshole? I'd rather be dead than vote for whoever you support, because you seem like a massive piece of shit.

    4. Re: Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Being raised in Wyoming, I can say this.
      The leaders of Wyoming want to see the state turned into a giant hole in the ground with all the mineral resources removed so they can "retire" to Arizona. For the most part they resent the National Parks, Monuments and Wilderness Areas and would really like to see those areas logged, opened to unlimited hunting and set up for cattle, oil drilling and mining (especially by Canadian companies). If you have an education (higher than 6th grade) you better not let anyone know, because you will have a virtual target on your back.
      The state has more guns than people, more sheep than people and one of the highest incest rates in the country.

      Good place to get the hell away from. No, they should have very little, if any, influence on the nation. Does the name Chaney mean anything to you idiots?

      Thought not.

    5. Re: Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People living in New York shouldn't have their elections decided entirely by distant ignorant rednecks living in Montana.

      TFTFY.

    6. Re: Nationalize? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The working class are naive chumps and Trump is a pro at telling people what they want to hear while never delivering.

      He's such a small government man that he wants to nationalize 5G.

      LMFAO

    7. Re: Nationalize? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      However, you seem to have no qualms about people in New York having their elections decided entirely by country hicks (should I add some more adjectives to that to balance "distant arrogant elitist leftists"?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That doesn't sound very conservative. It's cool though because he's on our team.

    1. Re:LMAO by aussie_a · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lots of people in government make all sorts of recommendations, most of them aren't acted on. Just because one department made a presentation on something doesn't mean "team Trump" are going to do it.

    2. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the guy was a democrat most of his life before switching sides. aaaaaaahahahahahhaahaha

    3. Re:LMAO by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Just because one department made a presentation on something doesn't mean "team Trump" are going to do it.

      It all depends on the last person who speaks to Trump.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:LMAO by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 0

      You have to remember he also said the Democrats were too smart to elect Don the Con, so he would have run as a Republican. So you like electing the 21st Century's PT Barnum? Also one of his famous lines is he just LOVES stupid people...

    5. Re:LMAO by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure he didn't actually say that. Trump isn't a PT Barnum, he's an 8-year old.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    6. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lots of people in government make all sorts of recommendations, most of them aren't acted on.

      And one of the biggest reasons that happens is because news of those plans are reported on and the public pushes back.

      Which is exactly what is happening here.

    7. Re:LMAO by greenwow · · Score: 1

      Just because he is for the vast majority a Democrat like all thinking people, doesn't mean he is completely one of us.

    8. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah he's missing that whole crazy emo cut yourself vibe.

    9. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Clearly the party of Geniuses chose Hillary Clinton. 99 to 1 odds!

    10. Re:LMAO by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      PopeCrapso

      You're triggered, aren't you? Because you sound triggered.

      I get a bonus in my monthly Soros check when I can trigger an AC on Slashdot. Would you mind filling out a brief survey about your satisfaction with this interaction? You'll be entered in a drawing to win a MAGA hat or a pair of Stormy Daniels panties worn after an interracial cuck scene.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't sound very conservative. It's cool though because he's on our team.

      WOW! Could it be that there are people and groups who, gasp, generally believe one principle is better but realize that there are exceptions? Perhaps they DON'T mindlessly adhere to philosophical and political points at all costs like a mindless drone? Maybe they don't get their thinking from the mainstream media or prepackaged talking points from a political party?

      IMPOSSIBLE!

    12. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol - the only triggered person here is you PopeCrapso.

      Trump is president and lives rent free in your head and I relish that you cry in your Starbucks every morning so that you have to make inane posts about Trump on slashdot just to make you feel better about yourself and how self-righteous and awesomely awesome you are fighting the good fight.

      If you’ll reply with your private email address I’ll be happy to send you a $5 Starbucks card so you can continue to make use of their free WiFi.

    13. Re:LMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I'm not interested in your leftover panties.

  4. Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck?

    1. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      They're behaving the way we do. It's not fair!

    2. Re: Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You (with the complicity of CNN) missed what China is doing in much of Africa and central Asia. Yes, they are blatantly a neocolonial power subtly taking over power in many dictatorships.

    3. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But this is the kicker:

      It also suggests America could export its secure 5G technology to protect its allies,

      You might want to ask our allies what it means to them when America comes to "protect" them. It usually means a body count. Ask Europe, North Africa and Southeast Asia.

      The Serbians have a saying that translated means, "When American comes to help, find a hole and crawl in." It's more colorful in their language and contains references to one's mother's private parts, but that's Serbians for you.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That, and the idea that the allies of the US would trust the communications equipment supplied by the US government after they were caught spying on their allies for years is ridiculous beyond compare.

    5. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump mixes China and Russia again. Oh wait, I think he combined them in a sense, but always says it's the Chinese because he doesn't like Asians due to his likely competitive experiences during his college years. He is a very competitive person, you see.

    6. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you get modded up for this blather, but don't misinterpret that as a validation that you know what you're talking about. You don't.

    7. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to ask our allies what it means to them when America comes to "protect" them. It usually means a body count. Ask Europe, North Africa and Southeast Asia.

      As someone from Europe, I can tell you that I'm happy my country took the body count, because socialist/communist rule is a perpetual hell.

      The Serbians have a saying that translated means, "When American comes to help, find a hole and crawl in." It's more colorful in their language and contains references to one's mother's private parts, but that's Serbians for you.

      So you hang out with totalitarian, genocidal Serbians? Ratko Mladic is your best buddy? Not surprising, I suppose, given your own history of hate and bigotry.

    8. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      The Serbians have a saying that translated means,

      No they don't, or none that I can find. I even asked a Serbian here at work and he has never heard of it Can you provide a direct citation complete with 'colorful' language?

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    9. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Ako Amerikanka nudi pomoc, mrsh u pichku materinu

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Ako Amerikanka nudi pomoc, mrsh u pichku materinu

      Doing some research with google and bing translators this quote still doesn't seem to be a true Serbian saying. After doing a few translations and comparing to results on google I got absolutely no matches for ether the original quote or the original quote. I think some one was having some fun at your expense. Don't worry though. Lots of people have been burned by not properly researching their BS, err I mean quotations.

      I love reading and collecting quotes. Some of my favorite are by Mark Twain. The following one is one so many of us should learn to live by.

      qaqmeH qoH puS 'oH poS je Hoch Hon teq 'e' DaHar SoQ nuj 'ej nuvpu' yInISQo'.

      I think, like Shakespeare, it rolls off the tongue better when its spoken in the original Klingon.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    11. Re:Chinese neo-colonial behavior? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Doing some research with google and bing translators this quote still doesn't seem to be a true Serbian saying.

      It really is a Serbian saying. It became well-known among Serbs during the 1990s, when the US (NATO) was bombing the hell out of Belgrade, destroying the Academy of Science, some 14th century churches, and the TV station, among other things. Of course, it could have been strictly a Beograd thing, since the rest of the country has their own reasons for hating Americans.

      However, if you ask any Serb about u pichku materinu ("you're mother's pussy"), you will find that it's probably the most popular colloquial phrase in Serbian. And "crawling back into your mother's pussy" is an extremely common formulation. It's added to practically everything. Serbs are very creative at cussing. The one that really kind of took me aback the first time I visited there (I've been there quite a lot) is "fuck your God". I had to double check with someone because my Serbian was not very good at the time and I wasn't sure what I'd heard. It's a curse that is very common in former Soviet satellite or client states.

      If you want an example of just how over the top Serbians can be when they curse, check out this post-game interview with Serbian basketball star Darko Milii. He felt he had been wronged by the referree, and describes in great detail what he's going to do to the ref's mother, daughter, grandmother and dog. Milii would later be drafted 2nd overall in the 2003 NBA (after Lebron James and ahead of Carmelo, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh) and would play for the Detroit Pistons.

      https://youtu.be/Sc5E3kVIs3s

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  5. Admittance of Inferiority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the first time the United States has publicly admitted its inferiority to another country.

    Truly amazing!

    1. Re:Admittance of Inferiority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After that other country stole trade secrets from US for the last ~50 years.

  6. Another handout by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More likely to be another handout to ISPs.

  7. Smart by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Big Federal government is better at providing infrastructure services than private industry. That is why Federal spending has increased every year the GOP has been in control of the Federal government.

    1. Re:Smart by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      The way Americans here rant about the cartels delivering shoddy overpriced mobile phone and cable services, one might have thought that government intervention to drain the swamp would be a good thing. (Not a commentary on Republicans and Trump, if that's what you're angling for)

      Just don't follow the Australian NBN scenario where one side introduced a policy and the next government completely FUBARed it for political gain and because Uncle Rupert. And they then promoted the turd bowl to Prime Minister...

  8. No Russia? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2, Funny

    A Trump story without a mention of Russia hacking something? Come on Slashdot!

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:No Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait a week you'll get all the Don Jr. testimony before congress your gut laugh can tolerate.

    2. Re:No Russia? by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 1

      I know the Truth hurts, don't it?

    3. Re:No Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeh, he won't defend the infrastructure from Russia we get it.

      In case you didn't notice, the sanctions law Congress passed in the wake of the election attack. It was never implemented by Trump. The deadline passed in October last year. As long as they need him to sign their bills, they'll quietly ignore his Russian problem and hope Putin will help them in the next election.

      This is what it feels like to be Putin's bitch.

    4. Re:No Russia? by greenwow · · Score: 1

      Thought he was too busy hunting stone sheep.

      But seriously, he looked good in the gear.

    5. Re:No Russia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the nationalized 5g wireless network is to make it easier for trump's russian buddies to do their job -- conducting penetration tests of the american communications infrastructure.

    6. Re:No Russia? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      A Trump story without a mention of Russia hacking something? Come on Slashdot!

      There was a mention of Russia hacking Trump, but the Russians hacked Slashdot to get rid of it.

  9. Neo-colonial behavior? by Bobrick · · Score: 5, Funny

    Reading a US government official denouncing another country's neo-colonial behavior just made my freaking day. +1 Funny whoever it was... Ivanka? Jared?

    1. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by shankar2015m · · Score: 1

      China is occupying Tibet, invading all of its neighbors, building artificial islands, trapping countries like Sri Lanka in debt traps and taking control of parts of these countries.... Looks plenty colonial !!

    2. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Bobrick · · Score: 1

      Of course it is. The point is the US is in no place to give lessons in this regard.

    3. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the point is the US government is doing exactly the same, Syria, Ukraine, Afganistan, Iraq and the myriad of other places they have meddled or used debt to get their way. hell it was only a week ago they were threatening countries at the UN that if they didn't vote the US's way then the US would consider taking away support.

    4. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reading a US government official denouncing another country's neo-colonial behavior just made my freaking day.

      As with most things in life, its not binary. Sure, the US has practically defined neo-colonialism. But for all the shitty things the US has done, its also been the single strongest proponent of liberalism. China has absolutely no interest in promoting liberal democracy. ZERO. When the US unilaterally retreats from the world stage, that leaves a giant power vacuum and everybody else that is ready to fill that vacuum are significantly worse than the US.

      The US absolutely needs to do better. But that doesn't justify handing off the world to others actively looking to do worse.

    5. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How? List your reasoning. What colonies does the US have? What payments do we force from occupied territories? What profit are we making?

      Do you have any justification for the belief that the US is currently a colonial power as bad or worse than China?

    6. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by shankar2015m · · Score: 1

      I agree regime change and taking away support are for meddling in other countries affairs, but taking someone's land or sea rights away is a whole different ball game.

    7. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      *Cough* NATO and half the other countries not in NATO...

      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-...

    8. Re: Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US territories like Mariana's are basically slave labor camps. Don't buy any clothes manufactured there.

    9. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really you think undermining someones government, taking away peoples lives and assets is somehow less worse than taking away sea rights? really???

    10. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by shankar2015m · · Score: 1

      Breaking someone's assets one time is bad, but taking them away permanently is worse. Really!

    11. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by shankar2015m · · Score: 1

      For the record, TIbest does not exist in sea. And, with Myanmar's sea rights gone, they lose their best ways of exports. Breaking ports for once is bad, but taking them out permanently is certainly worse!!

    12. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The literal point of NATO is that every member country has agreed on spending a certain amount on defense for collective benefit.

      There is nothing colonial about expecting member states to pay what they agreed to pay for their own benefit. They can always withdraw at any time.

    13. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US didn't just "break" assets, they killed a shitload of people and If you hadn't noticed the US has taken away many of the assets in the middle east permanently, they signed over oil and gas rights to US companies post invasion.

    14. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which member of the Trump administration is attempting to colonize new territory?

      Oh that's right, none of them. You're just a fag.

    15. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The strong countries are always colonial. That is the job of strong nations. The weak countries all complain about the colonial superpowers. That is the job of a weak country. CHINA is strong and getting stronger. The USA is getting weaker. Hence it is perfectly natural for the USA to be whining about Chinese colonialism. Nothing unnatural here it is just evolution working on a global level. The children of the USA will one day be lucky to be working in a brothel of a Chinese businessman. This is what the USA gets for buying Chinese merchandise and believing the lies of its own lies perpetueated by its television culture.

      Every time you buy Chinese you are paying for the cheap goods with your children's future.

    16. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Another+Mouse+Coward · · Score: 1

      I was late to the party, so thank you for posting that for me. :D (i.e. my thoughts exactly.)

    17. Re: Neo-colonial behavior? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Surely they would have been better off left to the Japanese Empire.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    18. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      And how do they spend this 2% of their GDP? The answer would be a fair chunk of that would be on US made weapon systems.

      Most of what the US does that could be classified as "neo-colonial" is forcing or creating situations that ultimately result in the sale of US weapon systems. e.g. the sale of anti-ballistic missile systems to Korea and Japan that you could argue is a result of the bad relations between Trump and "little rocket man"

    19. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Sorry, the US doesn't have to justify leaving a power vacuum. It didn't intend to do so, it's just that that's the way things happen. Being the "top dog" is expensive in many ways, and no country can afford to do that forever, even with stolen wealth. Egypt couldn't, Greece couldn't, Rome couldn't, Britain couldn't, and the US can't. Except for Greece (Alexander) the time periods seem to be getting shorter and the area dominated larger, but it hasn't happened often enough to make a pattern that can be trusted. Estimates, however, have been made that the US has spend several times the worth of all the oil remaining in the ground in the Middle East fighting there.

      The problems is that times of transition of power have often been violent. This needs to be avoided this time if humanity is to survive.

      P.S.: There are several "world powers" I just left out, though with the inclusion of Greece the justice of doing so is questionable. In particular the Assyrians, the Hittites, the Mongols, etc. The Mongols in particular should really have been included, as their "empire" still has an affect on the modern world. Tamerlain shaped the tone of the Moslem religion into a strongly militaristic and Xenophobic form, which it didn't have in the earlier period. The Koran can be read in as many different ways as the rest of the Bible. But with the destruction of the civilized cities along the silk road, the Moslems retreated into a shell of fundamentalism, and many of them have not yet re-emerged. (Now justify why the Christians are doing the same thing without being wiped out by an invading army.)
      OTOH, leaving out China from the list was not only intentional, but strongly justifiable. China has almost always been heavily introverted. Their traditional stance has been "Nobody outside China matters". The British may have broken this stance, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it re-assert itself. This doesn't mean they don't seek to dominate those they trade with. North Vietnam would have willingly allied itself with the US to avoid Chinese domination, but the US was unwilling to deal honorably with them. This has happened several times where potential allies were turned into enemies because the US refused to deal honorably with them. For explicit examples you could ask the American Indian tribes how honestly the US has maintained it's treaties. Often, however, the US hasn't even been honorable long enough for a treaty to be signed. In Vietnam the Geneva Protocols were first accepted by the US, and then, when the US saw who would win the election, violated. Etc.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    20. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, the US doesn't have to justify leaving a power vacuum. It didn't intend to do so, it's just that that's the way things happen.

      You sound like a really nice guy.

      The problems is that times of transition of power have often been violent. This needs to be avoided this time if humanity is to survive.

      You JUST SAID finished saying "not my problem" and here you are now complaining about the results of abdicating responsibility. Come back when your geopolitical analysis is more thought out than a teenager's.

    21. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We spend billions every year on Japanese and Korean defense with nothing in return. If they want to start carrying some of the responsibility for the solvency of their own sovereignty that is not by any reasonable person considerable as "neo-colonialism". There is nothing stopping any country from making their own military equipment. Countries that want to, do so.

      Your argument is baseless and founded on preference and prejudice so much that you are redefining words and your perception of reality to avoid accepting it. Like using scissors and glue to put together a jigsaw puzzle.

    22. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      I think my argument is based on fact.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The US is the biggest exporter of arms on the planet, by some sources the US exports more arms than the rest of the world combined. Your argument is based on hysteria and rhetoric. The industrial military complex is real and has been dominating the US financially and politically for more than half a century. I think it's time to pull your head of the sand/propaganda bubble.

    23. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your argument is that the US holds colonies because it is the world's largest exporter of arms? I don't think colonialism works that way.

    24. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      It does when you're creating an environment or taking actions which necessitate the purchase of those arms. The war on drugs. The war on terror. It's all really a war on any decline in arms revenue. The US isn't interested in peace and stability, quite the contrary, war and instability is very good for business.

    25. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I think of colonialism, I think of colony's laws to match those of the occupying power. As far as I can tell, Puerto Rico is the only country (that is not the US) to be subject to American governance. Do you mean to tell me that when I buy an American gun, I am now subject to American governance?

    26. Re:Neo-colonial behavior? by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      Who needs direct governance in a world dominated by global corporates?

      There are old ways of doing things and new ways. But essentially they end up being the same thing. e.g. Old fashion slavery is rare in this day and age, i.e. people being made to work shackled with a slave master standing over them 24/7. However there is more slavery today than there ever has been, the common form of slavery in this day and age is debt slavery, where workers are tricked into employment situations which requires them to work for several years to pay off a debt manufactured by the employer.

  10. China, dominant..? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess they forgot the Finnish Nokia, which *actually* dominates the mobile network business. They also own pretty much all the crucial patents in GSM and xG networks.

    1. Re:China, dominant..? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I guess they forgot the Finnish Nokia, which *actually* dominates the mobile network business.

      That's why Trump's got the Department of Defense working on a bomb that kills everyone but leaves hot blondes with big fake tits alone.

      It's kind of like a neutron bomb, but for breast implants.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:China, dominant..? by Sandman1971 · · Score: 1
      --
      It's better to burn out than to fade away
    3. Re:China, dominant..? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My first thought also.

    4. Re:China, dominant..? by Verdatum · · Score: 1

      They address this in the memo. It's true that Europe/Finland once dominated wireless telecom, but this is no longer the case. China is really really big, and everyone there uses Huawei/ZTE. And the Chinese hardware sells cheaper. As to patents, they don't care about patents. Much of the innovation this round is software related; much less hardware innovation. Software patents are a bear to win, and nothing in the upcoming 5G standard is going to be standing behind a patent wall. It has to be possible to develop an alternative implementation that still meets the standard. That said, I don't believe that a government operated network is the solution to this. For one thing, there's no requirement that 5G be interconnected. 5G primarily lends itself to benefits within the realm of what's known as "Fixed mobile". It works best when you put a directional antenna on your roof which points at a basestation which either acts as a relay, or has a fiber connection to the Internet. From there, you connect your wireless devices via 802.11. The need to have perfect coverage all along the roads and in the woods and such is not important; handoff (switching between two towers without losing your call) is not important. You use 3G/4G for all that stuff. I'm all for government resources being spent to improve broadband speeds in rural areas, and honestly, 5G is a pretty effective way to accomplish it, but the problems of it being federal run seem to outweigh the benefits. State or local-run networks on the other hand, may make more sense. Then federal funds can be provided to subsidize installation and maintenance as appropriate.

  11. I'm Done. Take Your Ad Dollars and Shove It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So tired of seeing a once-decent techy site devolving into a CNN competitor that is obsessed with Russia and Trump. For EditorDavid, BeauHD and msmash to even call themselves "editors" is a disgrace; VanityFair wouldn't even hire them at this point. That's one less reader to generate ad revenue from.

    1. Re: I'm Done. Take Your Ad Dollars and Shove It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beg to differ, this IS tech news and huge. Did you miss the '5G Network' part? Security concerns? Nationalize?
      Now if we can only get some intelligent and informative comments that is where things are going downhill.

  12. But where.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But where would all the communications equipment be manufactured? China?

    1. Re:But where.. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Once the standard is set? Why pay a tech wage in China?
      Build a new turn key factory in a Laos, Indonesia, Vietnam. Get their governments to give their full support for the new tech "jobs"
      Make them bid lower than China can for the same factory.
      Set up the production line, print on any trusted US, German, Italian, French telco brand on the side of the new hardware that the US will accept as trusted.
      Any one can build the communications equipment.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:But where.. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Two of those places border China, and the other's just a short cruise away for the Chinese Navy. Smart.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:But where.. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Think of the savings on the work force looking after the robots :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:But where.. by Verdatum · · Score: 1

      If I'm reading the memo right, they're implying that they would create the network using European manufacturers, but not dismissing the possibility of setting up American entities (which basically don't exist right now). Alcatel-Lucent, Nokia, and Ericsson.

  13. Also in the news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...there's pushback because very stupid people are now able to make powerful presentations using PowerPoint, leading to very stupid decisions.

    Mobile networks are not a natural monopoly, the way wired networks are. It's the wired ones that should be nationalized. 5G is not a serious security issue. I'd probably regulate teleco equipment a bit better, with stronger security requirements and legal enforcement of some of the best practices on critical systems.

    1. Re:Also in the news... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 5, Informative

      Mobile networks are not a natural monopoly, the way wired networks are.

      I find your views on limitless spectrum intreging and would like to know more. At the very least, you can always (at huge expense) run more non-interfering fiber. You cannot just broadcast more data.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Also in the news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither are "natural" monopolies and the only reason we have monopolies comes down to bad decisions on how to doll out spectrum and/or permit laying of cabling. In the 1980s cable companies were granted monopolies. This created a situation where certain companies got the upper hand everywhere against all potential competitors that otherwise could have entered the market. Today this upper hand has ensured no new competition is likely. In the case of the airwaves the FCC has dolled out spectrum in such a way that smaller entities can't reasonably compete with larger entities or get access to the spectrum they need in order to compete. Rather than setting standards and enabling anybody to setup towers to said standards on condition that they license access on fair and equal terms the government has granted certain companies the privilege for a high price.

    3. Re:Also in the news... by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      What's your reasoning for thinking 5G is not a serious security issue? In a time of war would you like to have an off switch or the ability to listen in on any phone call over a national 5G network of the country you're in conflict with?

    4. Re:Also in the news... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      What's your reasoning for thinking 5G is not a serious security issue?

      Securing networks is a fools errand.

    5. Re:Also in the news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is the idiots approach to security that doesn't work anymore on any network. you should be assuming the network is already breached, either through remote exploitation or through espionage by those that are already inside. Once you consider that the case the way to protect is end to end from user to server and simply assuming the network you are on is hostile.

    6. Re:Also in the news... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Mobile networks are not a natural monopoly, the way wired networks are.

      Uh....each mobile network has an exclusive agreement for part of the wireless spectrum. So yes, they are a natural monopoly. If you don't outbid AT&T, AT&T is the only one who can use that part of the spectrum.

      The result is Verizon and AT&T own almost all of the spectrum, and the other carriers pay them for service.

    7. Re:Also in the news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even worse, this will not be just about phone calls but whole factories, cars and buildings. Although that p2p connectivity of 5G will surely ease the situation a little bit.

    8. Re:Also in the news... by Verdatum · · Score: 1

      End-to-end encryption only protects confidentiality, not accessibility.

    9. Re:Also in the news... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Given we're almost always at war these days, perhaps you're making a good argument for not giving the government off switches or the ability to listen in to phone calls.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    10. Re:Also in the news... by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      With multicasting we got about 4000 times more bandwidth than we had in 2000. We use less due to better compression.

      We're not going to have a problem with overlapping data for a long time.

      City density in Asia is many times that of Europe and North America and they don't have any problems.

      There's really no reason to use anything but GSM anymore, it has more than enough bandwidth for everyone.

  14. What about iPhones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will they all have to be made in Wisconsin?

  15. and be able to monitor every conversation and data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who do they think they are kidding.

  16. Re:Grab the popcorn by Bobrick · · Score: 1

    Please define "millenials" while I'm grabbing MY popcorn.

  17. Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Canâ(TM)t break mobile encryption, own every tower and shut providers who donâ(TM)t cooperate instead.

  18. Great, then what ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then the government has, what, legal access to monitor any, and all, communications on said network without need for commercial cooperations or judicial concerns?

  19. Baked in paranoia by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    A source suggests the first option is preferred and essential to protect against competition from China and "bad actors".

    How are they going to build the network without using hardware that is made in China?

    1. Re:Baked in paranoia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we still have the tech to make these. When the sun is right you can talk all the way around the world.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_band_radio

    2. Re:Baked in paranoia by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Get the design from a trusted US, Germany, Japan, France, UK brand. All thats needed is the experts to show their design is 5G ready and secure to US standards.
      Something that will work in the varied conditions all over the USA.
      Get a new factory designed to turn key standards. Shop around the world for any more trusted nation that will to go cheaper than China for the bid to build 5G for the USA.
      The difficult design work is done. Its just finding a nation with really cheap workers, a good power supply, no taxes and thats ready for the robot parts.
      Find the winning nation, build the production line. Put any logo, branding on the parts as needed for the US. With low local wages, gov support, no unions, no protests the low cost hardware will export back to the USA.
      No China and its Communist party factory tech sharing "conditions" needed. The low wage incentives a China once offered are not that great anymore.
      Just find a low cost, trusted nation willing to accept US security conditions and that has a lot of workers who can be educated on how to keep the robots working.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Baked in paranoia by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Get the design from a trusted US, Germany, Japan, France, UK brand. All thats needed is the experts to show their design is 5G ready and secure to US standards.

      Under most administrations, Republican or Democrat, I wouldn't blink at this. But with this guy... all it's going to take is one wild rumor from Fox News and suddenly Trump's going to demand everything be completely changed.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:Baked in paranoia by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Its a bit like the Apollo program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Set the spec, use anyone trusted in the private sector to produce what is needed.
      The private sector gets the winning bid, the US gets all the secure 5G it wants at a low cost.
      The private sector keeps on innovating. The US mil has less to worry about another nations telco brand "workers" spying on their camp/fort/base/port.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:Baked in paranoia by John.Banister · · Score: 1

      By drawing a distinction where Taiwan is concerned.

    6. Re:Baked in paranoia by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      You didn't come close to addressing 93's concerns.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    7. Re:Baked in paranoia by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      What concerns?
      Telco hardware is a product that can be designed and produced like most of other tech products and has been for most telco networks going back many years.
      Pick a secure winning design, find a low wage nation to build the hardware in.
      The only telco change is need for a secure network.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  20. good thinking - no chinese components by iggymanz · · Score: 2

    this will protect us, because mobile devices aren't made in china

    neither are the components of wireless networking gear

    (pffffft!!!!)

    1. Re:good thinking - no chinese components by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China wants to buy the networks not just snoop them. I think Trump doesn't like the idea that the NSA, et al will have to pay china for the access to spy on it's own citizens. We keep buying crap from china that breaks the first time you use it and China will own this nation soon. Paid for with our own money.
      Uck Ina! Buy USA!

    2. Re:good thinking - no chinese components by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And it _never_ happens that firmware for good, solid US brands is written in China either! Not possible, no.

      On the plus side, for that software and hardware _not_ made in China, the Chinese will include all their domestic spying capabilities, so the US does not have to find out how to do that themselves.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:good thinking - no chinese components by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Or buy honest to goodness U.S. firmware based routers, then plug into your Cisco Catalyst switch made in China

    4. Re:good thinking - no chinese components by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I think the only source of US firmware is the NSA....

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  21. Hugo Chavez would be proud! by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

    Nationalizing private assets. Baby steps to become a dictator Donnie.

    1. Re:Hugo Chavez would be proud! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding. Who's going to protect us from bad actors in government?

  22. China... by Bobrick · · Score: 1

    I assume this will come in effect the same day the Trump family's businesses start producing their crap in the US instead of China?

  23. Backdoored for your convenience by rainwalker · · Score: 1

    So what would the plan be then, "law enforcement" backdoor, and require it by force of law? Seems pretty straightforward.

    1. Re: Backdoored for your convenience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All backdoors are already there, for Dutch , Isra eli, Rus sian spies to explore.

      Nationalizing the network will make at least prices to the customers sane, and may improve the service. Commercial monopolies now are just collecting the rent for nothing; they should compete for services.

    2. Re:Backdoored for your convenience by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      "The men dont know,
      but the little-hands
      understands"

      --mr. mojo risin

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  24. No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I worry more about the 3 letter agencies snooping than I do the Chinese snooping. If the feds build the network they will for sure be even more tapped into it than they are now.

    Simple solution is to keep it as it is now, just ban the import/use of Chinese components in the new networks.

    1. Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And quite frankly if the Chinese were snooping, at least they can't make my life a living hell like the feds could. I mean what is China gona do come over here and arrest me for something?

      As far as financial transactions we already have end to end encryption of that kind of stuff.

    2. Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could make life a living hell for my in-laws in China.

  25. China, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While everyone thought it be Russia.
    Making Internet and cellphone traffic an utility is long overdue though. Would be a huge win for the customer as compared to the monopoly of today.

  26. A national 5G Network... by lionchild · · Score: 1

    So, would that mean that if the US Government build/controlled the network, then leased it out, they wouldn't need to notify the companies when they were mirroring and monitoring traffic, right?

    --
    Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
    1. Re:A national 5G Network... by Nkwe · · Score: 1

      So, would that mean that if the US Government build/controlled the network, then leased it out, they wouldn't need to notify the companies when they were mirroring and monitoring traffic, right?

      Correct. The US government would also have pretty darn good tracking information on every cell phone and other device on the network. Sure as citizens we could end to end encrypt the data, but I bet each IEMI (or whatever 5g uses) will be legally required to be "owned" or attached to someone. Is the trade off worth it? Maybe, maybe not - but we should forget the ease of tracking this would allow. Pretty much every person carries a cell phone. With 5g most every tablet or other mobile device will be online, every motor vehicle will be online. The tracking opportunities of a such a large and centralized network are fantastic and terrifying.

  27. And you bought it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good to see the Slashdot crowd is as credulous as ever.

  28. Thoughts by DaMattster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think I am actually fine with it. Given the abuses of Verizon and AT&T, I am fine with a nationalized 5G network. CAVEAT: As long as there are no laws forcing encryption to have backdoors.

    1. Re:Thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laws ? If the feds own the network, they don't NEED laws to do this - they own the network, remember ? I find it interesting that so many here think government ownership of the primary/growing means of communication in a republic is a good idea. I'm sure they'd love living in China.

  29. Translation by Leuf · · Score: 1

    Eventually we could export the hardware with all of our own backdoors in it to our allies instead of them using the stuff with the Chinese backdoors.

    1. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, we already don't trust the US either.

      We will shop elsewhere. Tell the NSA they will just have to keep spying on Americans.

  30. Not that kind of protect... by Excelcia · · Score: 2

    The kind of protection spoken of is not to protect against Chinese superiority, it's to protect US networks against using compromised Chinese components which they are concerned would make the network vulnerable to their eavesdropping. Which is particularly rich, considering that the US government has been forcing US manufacturers to embed weaknesses into their networking and telecom equipment for years. *cough*CISCO*cough*

  31. Trump will consider... by EzInKy · · Score: 1

    ...anything that benefits Trump.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  32. No they're not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The media is telling you what trump is going to do?

    They're lying to you.

    They haven't been right about ANYTHING for almost 2 years now.

  33. My God, what's next? by mark_reh · · Score: 4, Funny

    Medicare for all?

    1. Re:My God, what's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if the Big Giant Orange Head is going off the Republican script anyways, why not:

      1). A total ban on all guns, backed up with weapons confiscation. Even potato guns!
      2). School prayer takes away time from standardized testing, so school prayer is out!
      3). Dominating enemies with the military is so 20th century and expensive. Let's start vomiting out plastic and garbage and pollution into the air and oceans so bad, our enemies are overwhelmed with crap! (Bonus effect: Consumerism rocks and the economy thrives!)
      4). Big Giant Orange Head goes exclusive with Melania and even swears off pussy grabbing! No sorry, that went too far. BGOH loves the pussy grab, never let it go!

  34. awesome, piss off your anti-gov militia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not all anti-gov militia people are wackos, but enough of them are. Fact that Donald is even considering this is like shooting your anti-gov militia supporters in the back. There are things government should provide, but a government controlled network is just asking for un-restricted spying. That's a great idea, just give the NSA a blank check and backdoor to everyone.

  35. What an opportunity for pork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one's entirely sure yet even how to build a 5G (>20 GHz) network. I'm not normally one for privatization above all else, but at least the private companies will try to have a positive ROI. And if the people normally for privatization are floating a government build-out, than I'm extra suspicious.

  36. public funding, private profits by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    public funding: Government builds infrastructure
    private profits: Verizon & AT&T leases infrastructure to citizens

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    1. Re:public funding, private profits by postmortem · · Score: 1

      Don't be so naive, they'll lease it back to gov't too...

  37. Fuck Sprint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't want those bastards anywhere near a 5G network.

    Or even a pair of tin cans connected by a string.

  38. Extraordinarily bad idea by WaffleMonster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Placing government in control of a 5G network everyone uses grants government means of directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time. Hard to come up with a worse more dangerous idea than this one.

    This would in theory make carriers compete for customers everywhere, and increase signal availability and quality for everyone.

    What would be better is framework for allowing competing carriers to dynamically share spectrum completely doing away with exclusive grants.

    Allowing multiple carriers to use the same frequencies is technically feasible with next gen technology and opens up means to competition rather than allowing only those with the deepest pockets to win spectrum auctions.

    1. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by jeff4747 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Placing government in control of a 5G network everyone uses grants government means of directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time. Hard to come up with a worse more dangerous idea than this one

      That horse left the barn in the Bush administration. Carriers are required to provide that information to the federal government. It's one of the things in the FISA bills that keep quietly passing Congress.

    2. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except with a national network they can't hide behind the Third Party Doctrine when they break the law.

    3. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time.

      A corporation would never create a device called Room 641A which copied every packet on the backbone and sent it to the government: Privatization means more privacy.

    4. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

      Carriers are required to provide that information to the federal government. It's one of the things in the FISA bills that keep quietly passing Congress.

      Are you seriously asserting carriers are continuously sending the wareabouts of every cell user to the federal government? If so feel free to backup your claim with publically available evidence. Wholesale collection of CDRs from everyone was ended years ago.

      That horse left the barn in the Bush administration.

      So what if it has? Is this a license to ignore the issue and allow it to be made worse?

    5. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wait I don't get it.... you already have a RF transmitter in your pocket with fairly unique ID signatures that can be traced with near infinite precision depending on how good of a receiver you have. The government can already track you. I'm not sure I see your points as valid. It just means you'd NEED to VPN everywhere, because instead of a private company spying on you, it will be the government itself spying on you.

      Also, they will be in a huge position of power to create something like a great firewall of China. Especially if parents say: "Someone think of the children!" and spread FUD about pornography.

    6. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by magusxxx · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I totally agree with you. And there's another little tidbit no one is considering...

      President Trump: If you want to use our network you'll have to put backdoors into your software. That way when we let our 'allies' use the technology we can make sure it's in our best interest...And if a few Americans are watched at the same time, that's okay. National Security. That's all the explanation we have to give.

      And a big off-topic side note...

      When former President Bush Jr. gave his big TV speech he told Saddam Hussein to leave the oil fields alone. "They belong to the people of Iraq." A reporter actually asked, "Then why aren't the U.S. oil fields nationalized?"

      His reply, "That would make us Communists."

      Hey! I just made this thread a connection between Trump and Russia. Hmmmm..... ;)

      --
      Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
    7. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Freischutz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Placing government in control of a 5G network everyone uses grants government means of directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time. Hard to come up with a worse more dangerous idea than this one.

      Why? All that is necessary now to achieve total surveillance is bully all the big providers into feeding the NSA data or just to allow the NSA unrestricted access to each providers backbone and the NSA has done that already. The horrible eventuality you foresee is already the norm thanks to the Republicans and Corporate Democrats (a few lone dissidents on both sides excepted). One big advantage of a national 5G grid would be that new service providers will be able to get equal access to the national grid and to challenge the big boys and eliminate the mobile service fiefdoms the US is currently divided up into and if there is no equal access it would be easier to bully the Fed into allowing it on a national grid by going through the courts than fighting a bunch of Telcos operating as a cartel. In Europe communities with municipal network backbones often have the liveliest competition and the lowest prices due to equal access for everybody both big national and small local players. Of course competition should have been enforced long a go through cartel, price fixing and competition laws since the US Telcos have not made much effort to hide their anti-competitive behaviour. Still, I wouldn't worry, the big Telcos are hard at work lobbying to kill this idea of a national 5G grid to protect their competition free fiefdoms so the current totally rotten system is safe.

    8. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Carriers are required to provide that information to the federal government. It's one of the things in the FISA bills that keep quietly passing Congress.

      Are you seriously asserting carriers are continuously sending the wareabouts of every cell user to the federal government? If so feel free to backup your claim with publically available evidence. Wholesale collection of CDRs from everyone was ended years ago.

      Yup, and what makes people think that the government agency running this national 5G network would just alluvasudden ignore whatever laws there are in place that currently prevent the security services from bullying private mobile service providers into tracking every user's location in real time and warehouse the data? If the US security apparatus wanted to implement an Orwellian system to monitor the movements of every US citizen via their cellphone it will not make a damn bit of difference whether the 5G network is publicly or privately owned.

    9. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by An+dochasac · · Score: 1

      Placing government in control of a 5G network everyone uses grants government means of directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time. Hard to come up with a worse more dangerous idea than this one.

      This would in theory make carriers compete for customers everywhere, and increase signal availability and quality for everyone.

      What would be better is framework for allowing competing carriers to dynamically share spectrum completely doing away with exclusive grants.

      Allowing multiple carriers to use the same frequencies is technically feasible with next gen technology and opens up means to competition rather than allowing only those with the deepest pockets to win spectrum auctions.

      This feasible technology is known as cognitive radio with spectrum pricing games. But given congressional-oligopoly financial feedback mechanisms, I expect the next gen will be wideband AM with 99% of the DC to Light spectrum allocated to Rush Limbaugh with the remaining 1% divided between for-profit emergency services, automated stock trading and World Harvest Radio's endtimes prophesy hour.

    10. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Placing government in control of a 5G network everyone uses grants government means of directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time. Hard to come up with a worse more dangerous idea than this one

      That horse left the barn in the Bush administration. Carriers are required to provide that information to the federal government. It's one of the things in the FISA bills that keep quietly passing Congress.

      This.

      Not sure why people think the private sector cares about their privacy and security at all... let alone more than the government. Private corporations have been selling your data to anyone and everyone who'll pay for years, the government at least has rules preventing that.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    11. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Placing government in control of a 5G network everyone uses grants government means of directly tracking high resolution movements of everyone everywhere in real time.

      They already have it..... the only question is: What kind of monopoly do you like better... A corporate one, or a government one?

      Both types have their merits and drawbacks.

      In theory a government monopoly SHOULD represent the people. I don't know that I trust government that much. I would RATHER private ownership with regulation, but I sure as heck don't trust the existing telecom monopolies not to gouge consumers, and they've already captured the regulation process.

      I guess i'd like to see an effective government-run broadband network that doesn't gouge on bandwidth pricing as an OPTION in everyplace, and let the telecoms compete against that ---- if they want to keep their monopolies justify it, by building wired/fiber networking infrastructure.

    12. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "That horse left the barn in the Bush administration. Carriers are required to provide that information to the federal government. It's one of the things in the FISA bills that keep quietly passing Congress."

      Not to mention CALEA. So, let's just ratify the tacit premise that the Federal government owns these "private" assets and make it official? Well, at least the cards would be out on the table for everyone to see. Terrific improvement. Very, very terrific. Why, we could add key escrow, too, and make it even easier to keep tabs on those, um, Chinese, yeah, that's it, malefactors. *Note for the sarcasm-impaired, yes, that was sarcasm, with a little derision thrown in for good measure.

      I completely fail to see the relevance to real security from devious Chinese AI. How exactly is this move supposed to protect the nation from Chinese bogeymen, exactly? Looks to me like it's simply another step in implementing Chinese-style net censorship and control. What a present for the people Trump ran against. Particularly in a world where your browser allows the code of any random clickbait huckster to run on your machine or device without so much as a by-your-leave, under penalty of not having sites even load, sometimes? Trumpers, do you really want this "improvement" falling into the hands of the next Democratic administration? What happened to conservatism, and limiting government.

      Extraordinarily bad, no, this is egregiously bad. What a joke.

    13. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously asserting carriers are continuously sending the wareabouts of every cell user to the federal government?

      No, carriers are required to store that information for 5 years, and supply the data for specific users on request.

      Wholesale collection of CDRs from everyone was ended years ago.

      By making the carriers store it instead of the government. Not exactly much of a change.

      So what if it has? Is this a license to ignore the issue and allow it to be made worse?

      Depending on your personal mindset, there's two results:
      1) The Orwellian nightmare has not appeared despite about 20 years of this data collection, so what me worry?
      2) If you're suddenly worried about this, where you been the last 20 years when we could have used your help? You're suddenly concerned when the privacy invasion affects the profits of telecommunications giants?

    14. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      If the US security apparatus wanted to implement an Orwellian system to monitor the movements of every US citizen via their cellphone it will not make a damn bit of difference whether the 5G network is publicly or privately owned.

      I think Prism and the upcoming nation-wide license plate scanning project demonstrate that quite well. If they're not doing it via the cell network already, they don't have a need for it, or they don't have the capacity for it. Ability? Definitely have that.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    15. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      It's really sad that there were so many comments before yours what that didn't point this basic, obvious thing out and instead talked about how great an idea it would be.

    16. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      or 3) making something even easier might cross a threshold for some people

      They may have been storing info about what cell tower you're linked to, but they do not try to pinpoint your location. That takes active effort. If the gov owned all the towers, and the standard itself, then they could do a few things - they could embed the GPS info into the cell signal back to the tower, they could try and get you to bounce a few signals from other towers to try and triangulate your position sans GPS, etc. There is a dramatic difference between having all the info immediately w/o warrant, and needing a warrant to get info that isn't /that/ helpful. Knowing my tower lets you know a circle with a radius of 20 miles or so. That's not great info to constantly know, but it's certainly not knowing exactly what locations I'm at at exact times all through the day.

    17. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      or 3) making something even easier might cross a threshold for some people

      It's already trivially easy. Actually running the network does not make it easier.

      If anything, it's slightly harder because the federal government has weak privacy regulations. AT&T, Verizon and the others have no privacy regulations.

      There is a dramatic difference between having all the info immediately w/o warrant, and needing a warrant

      No warrant is required to get the data from the phone companies. That's one of the things the FISA law includes.

      Knowing my tower lets you know a circle with a radius of 20 miles or so.

      First, it's not just which tower. There's a signal strength too. So they have an idea how close you are to the tower.
      Second, it's not one tower. There's 3-5 towers that can see your phone in a typical coverage area. Each one with a signal strength.

      A bit of math and that circle is actually quite small.

      Lastly, virtually all phones rely on the tower to do the math and location lookup for GPS. Which means if any app on your phone turns on the GPS, the tower knows exactly where you are.

      Again, the situation you fear came to be a long time ago.

    18. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      I feel like you're saying words, without realizing they're supposed to have meaning. If I am running a network, and I want to find out info about that network, it's easier for me than if I am simply asking Amazon (or some other external group) how the network is working. Also, you may not realize this, but FISA is a court action, and it's also for *FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE* (thus the F). Domestic intelligence is a dramatically different ball of wax and yes, does require a warrant. But even the current telco companies only know a 20mile radius circle - they don't have 5 years of info that at 8:15a you go to starbucks for 15-20 minutes, then you stop by the newspaper stand for 3-5 minutes during your walk to work down a particular road, every mon-fri. Real life isn't the movies. And don't presume to know about what I am afraid.

    19. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      Also, I wanted to address this: "First, it's not just which tower. There's a signal strength too" - I think it's cute that you think they're tracking my phone's signal strength, and that THAT is what allows them to guess distance. First, the cell tower isn't changing power or otherwise even caring what my signal strength is; that's just my phone. Second, the signal strength for the vast majority of people has little to do with distance, and more to do with obstructions; in SoCal, it's mountains in the suburbs and then the mesh that covers every house here (there's a wire mesh holding the stucco which covers every house top to bottom here). Then there's various materials used in commercial buildings, etc; signal "strength" comes and goes based not just on distance, but environment. Round trip time is better; a cell tower can send a signal for which it expects a response, and given the round trip time it can judge distance...but even that is suspect, because your signal might be bouncing off a building down the street and coming back to you, who knows (the path of a cell signal is extremely indirect in places with lots of skyscrapers). But even still, this method is WAY better than somehow knowing your signal strength and using that to determine...anything. And neither method can pinpoint you well. For that, you do in fact need more than 1 signal.

    20. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      They may have been storing info about what cell tower you're linked to, but they do not try to pinpoint your location. That takes active effort.

      "Effort by computer" is not really a significant limiting factor. Another word for it is "automated", and another would be "conserve resources."

      Each modern cell tower does locate the user so that it can use phased array antennas to direct as little power as necessary towards him and improve reception from him. It takes no human effort, the system does it all by itself.

      If the gov owned all the towers, and the standard itself, then they could do a few things - they could embed the GPS info into the cell signal back to the tower,

      Owning the towers does not imply that they can force phones to send GPS data, but then, they don't need to do that to get locations with a reasonable precision.

      they could try and get you to bounce a few signals from other towers to try and triangulate your position sans GPS

      You do realize that your phone regularly checks for a better tower connection automatically, don't you? In other words, it tries to bounce a signal from other towers. Have you heard the term "handoff"? How do you imagine that the phone and tower system know that a handoff is beneficial and to what other tower? And even if your phone isn't sending to those towers, they can certainly listen to your signal if they want to triangulate.

      Knowing my tower lets you know a circle with a radius of 20 miles or so.

      You need to read up on the technology.

      I work in search and rescue. There are cases where with one ping of a cell tower the location of a lost or hiding person has been located to within a few hundred yards. This is in rural areas where only one cell tower could hear the phone. If there are more towers and your phone has better service, you can bet you can be located to within a twenty yard radius. Not twenty miles.

    21. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      There's a signal strength too.

      And direction. Each cell has two or three antennas so it is trivial to use phased array methods to get a direction. In fact, that allows both ends to use less power, conserving the phone's battery and decreasing co-site interference.

    22. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      If I am running a network, and I want to find out info about that network, it's easier for me than if I am simply asking Amazon (or some other external group) how the network is working.

      If the group running the network has a privacy policy, then you have to comply with that policy. That adds effort and documentation.
      If the Amazon has no privacy policy, then you just have to ask. And since that "ask" is backed by "or we'll take away all your spectrum", "ask" isn't really the right word, o ye who is retreating into linguistics.

      Also, you may not realize this, but FISA is a court action, and it's also for *FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE* (thus the F).

      You may not realize this, but frequently the name of a law does not completely describe the contents of that law.

      Domestic intelligence is a dramatically different ball of wax and yes, does require a warrant

      Oh, you sweet summer child.

      But even the current telco companies only know a 20mile radius circle - they don't have 5 years of info that at 8:15a you go to starbucks for 15-20 minutes, then you stop by the newspaper stand for 3-5 minutes during your walk to work down a particular road, every mon-fri.

      No, they have 5 years of data showing that you were connected to these particular masts on these particular 5 towers, and each tower recorded the signal strength from your phone.

      Since they have the mast, they know what direction you were from the tower. The signal strength gives them an approximate radius (interference, buildings, trees and other such things make that radius less accurate). Put together the data from the 5 towers, and you have a very basic triangulation problem that lets them locate you. Make the reasonable assumption that you are on or near the ground, and they've got a location on Earth of where you were.

      They won't be able to find you were in that Starbucks, but they'll be able to figure out you were in the strip mall where the Starbucks is located.

    23. Re:Extraordinarily bad idea by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      "First, it's not just which tower. There's a signal strength too" - I think it's cute that you think they're tracking my phone's signal strength

      How, exactly, do you think phone companies do tower handoffs? Do you think they randomly select a nearby tower, or do they base it on something like signal strength? Because the phone only gets to ask to talk to a particular tower. The towers get to actually decide.

      First, the cell tower isn't changing power or otherwise even caring what my signal strength is

      :facepalm:

      The tower is recording the signal strength from your handset. Because the handset is the thing that moves and varies it's output. Why on Earth did you think there was something involving variable output from the towers, other than you're desperately scrambling for something?

      Second, the signal strength for the vast majority of people has little to do with distance, and more to do with obstructions; in SoCal, it's mountains in the suburbs and then the mesh that covers every house here

      Golly, it's almost like I addressed this by mentioning signal strength doesn't give them a very accurate distance from the tower....

      Round trip time is better

      :facepalm:
      So, it turns out not every single phone has the same chips inside it. So they don't take the same time to process messages. Also, it turns out that LTE phones are both code multiplexed and timeslice multiplexed. So a message may be delayed waiting for the next timeslice.

      But guess what's in some of those messages? The power level the phone is using to reach the tower.

      And neither method can pinpoint you well. For that, you do in fact need more than 1 signal.

      You mean like the 4 other towers that also receive the message?

  39. Given recent history... by Falconnan · · Score: 2

    Am I the only person who sees this as a quick way to lock in all of the electronic surveillance by controlling the encryption directly? Because unless end-to-end encryption is locked in, this would be the full keys to the Kingdom.

    1. Re:Given recent history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Given recent history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why else would they do it? "Booga booga China" is just a red herring.

  40. Excellent Smithers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reading this all I could think of was how excited the NSA would be to have a federally controlled 5G national network.

  41. The US is becoming China by Nocturrne · · Score: 1

    There is no way I would connect to a government 5G network. We need to be very careful. Governments all over the world are starting to use the "because China" excuse to take away our privacy and freedom.

    1. Re:The US is becoming China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good ol' republican socialism and big government overreach.

  42. TRADE PROTECTIOMISM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is sheer trade protectionism, a non tariff barrier. A dummyspit.
    For it to work - it would have to be more than just spectrum, it would also have to prescribe what equipment the carriers use, and access to software mesh networks, because mesh networks break traditional spycraft options. Canada, UK and Australia, and NZ are introducing draconian ISP rules
    because law enforcement is nearly broken. So now USA sees the 'problem'.

    And it wont work security wise because Chinese actors will still set up a presence and mine what they can. With satellites overhead, the hoovering up of signals with iffy encryption is another deep flaw - for all countries, not just the USA.

    I would like to think of this apparent outcome is the result of letting American companies outsource manufacturing, then R&D, then firmware, so China caught up and perhaps overtook the USA in making stuff, while qualified Americans were put out to pasture and lost frontline skills.

    A natural progression is for the Chinese to add high grade encryption to all the new handsets they are selling, without back doors, and without
    broadcom chips and binary blobs. Maybe they put before and after traces around the broadcom. Then the shit will fly.

    1. Re:TRADE PROTECTIOMISM by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      A natural progression is for the Chinese to add high grade encryption to all the new handsets they are selling, without back doors, and without
      broadcom chips and binary blobs.

      Alex, I'll take "Things That Are Never Going To Happen" for $500, please...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  43. Minority report by markdavis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, I guess I am in a minority on Slashdot, based on the apparent general approval of such a thing. I think it is a dangerous idea. The last thing on earth we need is more and bigger Federal government. Could one reason the Fed would want in on this is to guarantee their easy access to CONTROL and LISTEN IN on the network traffic? Remember, their notion of "Security" typically isn't the same as a consumer's. How many agencies are still SCREAMING for "back doors" in encryption?

    Spectrum is limited, of course. And I have no problem with the Fed in control of who leases such spectrum- someone has to manage it. I even think it is a good thing to set and enforce standards and interconnection and communication. But handing them the keys to design, build it, and supposedly pay for it would likely:

    1) Cost much, much more than expected- just like most every other Fed run program.
    2) Be full of corruption and kickbacks- just like most every other Fed run program.
    3) Take much longer to complete- just like most every other Fed run program.

    Be careful what you wish for....

    1. Re:Minority report by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "Be careful what you wish for...."

      Could end up like another supersonic transport (SST) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... funding .
      Someone has to pay for the placement of the 5G telco network all over the US road network to cover networked transport.
      Give it to the private sector and pay the private sector for every part of the network to cover the most remote parts, difficult to network of the USA?
      Not just networking all the strategic highways and around the mil sites that need telco security.
      Let the private sector find the lowest cost workers/robots globally (not in China) and mass produce the network parts? Design in the USA, made in ........
      Build a 100% US gov telco factory in Florida? New Jersey? Have that state win the design and scale up a big telco build of products for all of the USA for that 5G generation.

      Re How many agencies are still SCREAMING for "back doors"
      They got them with PRISM, NSA ANT catalog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Room 641A, "U.S. secretly tracked billions of calls for decades" (April 7, 2015)
      https://www.usatoday.com/story...
      That was without a nice US wide 5G network as part of the deal.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Minority report by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      So you are happy to give up your freedom for a decent mobile network connection? Doesn't seem like much when others have given up their lives for it.

    3. Re:Minority report by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The past generations of mobile networks always got collected on and always will be.
      The new part is who will pay for a new 5G network and will it cover more than the strategic highways and big cities. Who gets to bid for the build and who gets to make the hardware.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  44. Nationalizing? by John.Banister · · Score: 1

    This reuters article suggests that they want to build a national 5G network, but not that they want to take over networks built by private carriers.

    I'd like to see a 5G speed network built that is just a dumb pipe for IP. Then, they could use the same security for VOIP as is used with the wired internet. What's the point to a 5G "cellular telephone" network? The bandwidth is overkill for voice. If they just provide a dumb pipe, secure data communication is as solved a problem as anything they're going to come up with. The big problem is the name. I'm sure Trump won't want to put money towards anything with "Dumb" in the name.

  45. WTF? by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I don't even know what to make of this. It seems unclear what they actually want to do but "nationalizing" a whole sector of telecommunications is very socialist.

    Of course that probably wouldn't be much worse than the oligoply that controls wireless already.

    1. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least your comment stayed. Every time I mention socialism in a negative sense on ./ it is erased. As well as this one will probably be...

  46. Stingray functionality built in. by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 1

    The other advantage for the government is that, as they run the network, they can run tracking and call interception on anyone at a whim, without having to rely on involving third party telecommunication companies and silly things like warrants.

  47. It is as good as saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its good he killed dreamers to hostage them for 25 billion that Mexico wont pay.
    Fucking Satan must have won and there is no longer a god or heaven.

  48. can't wait for China's dominance in healthcare by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

    yes!

    --
    4wdloop
  49. Not buying it... by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    I think this has squat to do about China.. This has more to do with controlling the communication channels of everyday Americans.

    1. Re:Not buying it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. This has to do with slowing down progress - rolling back tech to remake 1950s America. Old money has had enough of disruptive tech.

  50. This is dangerous! by plopez · · Score: 1

    This means the administration, Trump's or others, will have total control of 5G. Backdoors anyone? Traffic monitoring? Incidental eavesdropping? Location tracing of dissidents? Freezing the network to prevent prevent unrest and agitation by subversive elements?

    No one here seems to get it.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  51. Re:Grab the popcorn by HiThere · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    To be fair, ObamaCare, which I call RomneyCare, was a bad idea. The insurance companies should never have had a seat at the table. Health care is worthwhile, health *insurance* is a terrible idea, that is only made palatable if someone else appears to be picking up the tab, because the insurance companies always are in there to make a profit.

    Universal basic health care should be the platform, and just skip any reference to insurance. If you want insurance, it's appropriate for things that are not only expensive, but also unlikely. Then the purpose is to spread the risk. But everyone needs basic health care, so the insurance model is grossly inefficient and excessively expensive. So major medical insurance is reasonable. But neither insurance for basic health care nor for actually optional services. (Reconstructive plastic surgery for burn victims does not count as optional in my book, even if they are not incapacitated without it.)

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  52. Well Infrastructure should never be private by Casandro · · Score: 4, Informative

    We have learned that in Germany, where we went from one of the most modern data networks before we sold our phone company, down to something that's worse than in most eastern European countries.

    However in the interest of balance. Here's a counter point claiming that private enterprise means competition and therefore democracy. And obviously the oil industry in the US is a prime example for this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    1. Re:Well Infrastructure should never be private by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we learned in Germany is that we were forbidden from attaching cheap 9600bps modems to the phone network when it was still owned by the public phone company. We were only allowed to use ridiculously expensive and slower modems from Deutsche Bundespost. Now Germany has one of the best internet access networks in Europe, according to statistics by Akamai, for example. And I'm saying that as someone who actively advertises FTTH networks, where Germany is almost dead last in Europe. Most other countries have higher FTTH availability, but where you can't get FTTH, you're often SOL. Germany has VDSL-Vectoring and Cable in many places. And, surprise surprise, the remaining slow spots are usually where the former national monopoly operator is the only game in town. No, seriously no, we do not want to go back to "the Gilb". (Americans take note: Deutsche Telekom is a completely different thing in Germany vs. the USA. Here they are the largest and most expensive telecommunications provider and often behave like the former government agency from which they spawned. The government still holds a controlling interest in Deutsche Telekom and it is still the only option in many places. T-Mobile US on the other hand was VoiceStream originally, is the underdog in the US mobile market and behaves like it.)

    2. Re:Well Infrastructure should never be private by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have learned that in Germany, where we went from one of the most modern data networks before we sold our phone company, down to something that's worse than in most eastern European countries.

      That's a bald-faced lie. The German telecommunications monopoly was a disaster. They were trying to push ISDN as their main data solution at vastly inflated prices when other countries were already using cable and DSL.

    3. Re:Well Infrastructure should never be private by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, many people are sad to see ISDN go now that Deutsche Telekom is moving everone over to VoIP. ISDN was very reliable, voice quality was much better than POTS and it allowed for multiple phone numbers and voice/data channels. Some features of ISDN have still not been ported over to VoIP. It was also fast and reliable for data transfer, compared to POTS modems, and could be used in combination with DSL just fine. The problem with ISDN was that it was meant to do much more and this caused the protocol to be overengineered for what it was actually used for. Like all the other protocols from the telecommunications world, it lost out to the more pragmatic internet protocols in the end.

  53. Yes, but... by Casandro · · Score: 2

    there are already agreements on that for decades, that wouldn't really make a difference.

  54. Fuck Trump by AK+Marc · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Here's how I picture it.

    "What's the top sector in the US"
    "Oil and Coal."
    "Have they bribed me?"
    "Yes."
    "OK, 25% tariff on solar. Who's next?"
    "Telecommunications, no bribe."
    "Nationalize 5G, Privatize if they spend $500M at Mar-a-Lago."
    "Done"

    Nationalization of the spectrum (along with the hardware in the tower) is a great idea. Rent it to everyone at the same price. Eliminate monopoly, and force competition on service, not lies about speeds and coverage.

    But the cynic in me thinks it's just a public announcement to manipulate, not a serious suggestion.

  55. How to take power from dictatorship? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is something I cannot understand. Hopefully you can help out ...

    This is what you are claiming ---

    > ... they are blatantly a neocolonial power subtly taking over power in many dictatorships ...

    Question: How to 'take over power' from 'dictators'?

  56. So 5G in 2028? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you nationalize for security reasons, the obvious concern is to avoid using any foreign designed chips or software in the system. At this point in time, to do that we'd actually need to start building foundries. It would set us back at least a decade. But then, rolling back the changes of the last 50 years seems to be this administrations goal. It's as if they want us to become a steampunk society in order to avoid being part of the global economy. So, hey, that's what we voted for. Make America as great as it was in the 50s, right?

  57. Re:Grab the popcorn by phantomfive · · Score: 0

    To be fair, ObamaCare, which I call RomneyCare, was a bad idea.

    I call it PelosiCare, because of the monumental effort she put forth to get it passed, while Obama was waiting to get something to sign. It is extremely impressive what she did.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  58. um by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I don't think you understood the proposal at all.

    Having the government build it out and own it, and then lease bits to providers (the spectum is a public asset, after all) is far from "giv[ing] up 5G"... it's GETTING 5G but without the nasty crony-capitalist play of "selling" the bandwidth to some corrupt/evil company who then keep the public from having their way with the bandwith that the public owns. I fail to see how some giant corp "buying" the bandwidth and then overcharging only that portion of the public who are their customers for the use of said bandwidth (the current model) is superior in any way other than as a way to lock-in profits and captive customers for the winning bidder in the bandwidth auction.

    Please explain how selling that bandwidth to Verizon, who will then only let users use it if they pay too much AND use whatever China-made phones Verizon chooses to allow in any way protects the public against China.

    1. Re:um by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The comment was a poor satire of "if you give up freedom for security...."

      I concede the argument. You win.

  59. Another important point: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While this would also give direct government surveillance of every cell user everywhere, it would place it back under previous 4th amendment government grounds, rather than in that carefully crafted '3rd parties don't have to respect the 4th amendment' grounds they've been using to spy on us for all these years.

    Thanks to some of the recent surveillance bills it is the same amount of spying either way, but if the winds of politics start to blow the other way, it would provide an opportunity to declaw much of this surveillance since they could no longer claim it was third party operated and thus devoid of 4th amendment protections.

  60. You literally said he didn't! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So he is a republican, because he keeps acting like a typical republican, by not acting like a republican? ...
    Seriously? ...
    WTF is wrong with your head??

  61. I'm German, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... for a country that big, the US highway system is fine. Imagine the corporatr alternatives: Either ... a health competing market, but five highways next to each other, one for every competitor, ruining the landscape and wasting space ... or just one highway, but a different monopoly for each area of the country, like with ISPs, which is not very "free market".

    I see it like this: The fact that a government does not have profit as its only goal to rule them all, is both a bad and a good thing. It means they don't want to milk you and rip you off as much as physically possibe; but it also means they do not have a motivation to improve.

    Which makes clear why a corporate monopoly is the worst combination.
    But makes me think: Why don't we have multipe competing *governments* in one country then? So organizations with the improvement of the country as their goal, instead of profit. A free market of a kind that actually makes things better!

    Yes, it's merely a fantasy right now. But I would love to give it an experimental try, for research purposes!
    (But *beware*: There *will* be moles, trying to ruin it and make it look bad! Moles with bigger budget than your entire current government!)

    1. Re:I'm German, and ... by meerling · · Score: 2

      Sure, it's normal for the government to not be profit motivated, but trump is, and I suspect anything he does because of it. He's abusing the country in several ways that already, so why should we not suspect this move as well?

    2. Re: I'm German, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      U.S. state governments are somewhat competitive with one another. Screw tax payers over and/or let infrastructure or quality of life go to shit (tricky balance), and yes indeed, new and existing business may go elsewhere. Unfortunately, some states and their voters are too slow/stubborn to understand this, which leads to a generation of decline.

    3. Re:I'm German, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But makes me think: Why don't we have multipe competing *governments* in one country then?

      This is a fundamental design element of the US. They're called 'states'. Each one is relatively sovereign and they can independently decide what to do and how to do it. If you don't like how your (state) government does something and are failing at effecting change via the intended process, you can move to a place where a different government has control that is more in line with your desires.

      For example, people who are unhappy with the fiscal policies of their NY state government can move to FL where there is no income tax. People who are unhappy with the relaxed gun control of their FL state government can move to NY. Etc, etc.

      Let's face it. If you want to live in an expensive apartment, work in an office building and drink in hipster bars, there isn't a whole lot of different between Chicago and Miami. If you want to live in the suburbs, drink starbucks and commute to work, it doesn't matter much if it's a generic suburb of Dallas or LA. If you want to live in the country and not have any neighbors, there's room for you in pretty much any state so pick one that makes you happy and go there. The only functional difference between living in the middle of a corn field in IL versus living in the middle of a corn field in IN is state government. One state has always allowed booze sales on Sunday, the other has always allowed concealed carry.

      This works pretty well unless you continue to concentrate powers up to the federal level (where they don't belong). Then, there's no escape.

    4. Re:I'm German, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, it's normal for the government to not be profit motivated,

      A government can have profitable branches - it then needs less (or no) taxes to run itself. Politicians like to promise lower taxes.

      Another way to this scenario is government that gradually is taken over by corporations. In the end, corps is the gov.

    5. Re:I'm German, and ... by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except most people aren't wealthy enough to just get up and move to another state without the larger consideration of where they can make a good living.

    6. Re:I'm German, and ... by Twanfox · · Score: 1

      The government stepping into a profit-motive is what gets us things like civil asset forfeiture. The government should not be engaging in profit-oriented behaviors for one basic reasons: They have the force of law behind them. A corporation (in an ideal situation) does not control the laws that they are subject to, and some laws may be for them with others against them. A government can make every law for itself without restrictions, as it can write the laws and executes them with the enforcement of the police. At that point, is there any respect for the laws? Is it any different than the worst corporation you can imagine? Would you want that as your governing entity?

    7. Re:I'm German, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those examples would have made a lot more sense with MA and NH instead of NY and FL. As a bonus, it is common for people to move between those two states without changing jobs.

    8. Re:I'm German, and ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry mate, have you observed the behavior of corporations? The absolutely do control the law as much as they possibly can. Sure, it doesn't always work out and there are some high-profile examples made of those that fail, but I assure you that every large company is doing all it possibly can to control the law as much as possible.

  62. Like that doesn't happen now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What exactly is your argument?
    That US corporations do not obey an NSL by some TLA, and hence are more trustworthy?

    Also, they do their own for-profit spying on top of it!

    And it's not like your US government *IS*'nt merely a corporate oligarchy already.

  63. Heh heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chinese neo-colonial behavior

    Yeah, us in the West really don't like colonialism.

  64. infrastructure should be socialized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know everyone wants to queue up "the government sucks at running things", but really that's not true. There are plenty of things that the government runs just fine.

    The fact is that infrastructure systems are things where a) it is useful to have everyone on one standard and b) the profit margins are so thin anyway that we end up bailing them out/subsidizing them all the time anyway and then, hopefully, imposing a bunch of regulation in exchange for our public assistance. In effect, they're already partly socialized just without the full oversight actual socialization would provide.

  65. THIS IS ALL PUTIN'S PLOY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't buy into it you guys! This is being masterminded in Kremlin by Putin himself! Everyone that's supporting this is a Russian Troll. The 5G network will allow Russian hackers to infiltrate our networks at a faster speed! DONT FALL FOR IT!

  66. Australia can help!! by captbollocks · · Score: 1

    Just look at how well the National Broadband Network is coming along!! http://www.abc.net.au/news/201...

  67. This is backwards... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nationalize wired networks, telephone, cable and fiber. Sell bandwidth to companies to resell to end users. Treat it like a utility.

    Wireless isn't really a natural monopoly.

    Why do we always need a bogeyman to make headway? Oh, the Chinese! Otherwise gravy trains and cronies all the way up.

  68. My new favorite game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't wait to tell my pro-Trump friend that Obama pushed for Government built 5g network and hear them lambaste it. "Great even bigger government", "I thought we had no privacy before, but this ridiculous!". I wonder how he will defend it when I tell him that this is a Trump idea!

  69. reminds me of when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My american friends called us commies back in the early 90s when we in british columbia bowed down to bcTEL and the socialist govern...oh wait everything was cheaper. When they brokebit up and Telus rolled in suddenly everything cost more and weve been raped ever since on phones (landline or otherwise)

  70. Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would liken this to building a highway, paying for the upkeep of the road, the police, snow cleaning, etc., and allowing AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, etc, have tollbooths and collect a hefty fee for basically a PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE.

    No.

    The options are free market all the way and allow the companies to cherry pick where the service will be excellent (due to market size), or completely nationalize the communications network and then pick winners / losers based on how damn good companies can lobby for their cut of the pie.

    It's a Catch-22 in either case. We, the public, the consumer, will loose.

  71. As long as... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

    ...Strong encryption that the government has no backdoor to is implemented as well to prevent government spying....
     

  72. Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We'd save a ton on stingrays. Might be able to cut the top-level tax a bit more.

  73. Nationalizing? Neo-Colonialism? by dpilot · · Score: 2

    I'm trying to reconcile nationalizing the 5G network with abolishing network neutrality. Those two just aren't fitting together well.

    Same with the whole neo-colonialism thing, and the obvious issue of US vs Chinese neo-colonialism.

    This is just silly and full of cognitive dissonance.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  74. Amtrak by jabberw0k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Do you want Amtrak running your cell network? No service to Phoenix or Annapolis, and Minneapolis gets signal once a day for an hour at midnight. Before you laugh: Amtrak, the nationalization of our passenger trains, was signed into law by Nixon, a Republican.

    1. Re:Amtrak by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      There's no Amtrak service to Phoenix because it's not competitive with airplanes.

      Really 90% of Amtrak service is not competitive with airplanes, and it only still exists because the congresscritters whose districts it goes through refuse to let it be cancelled. Amtrak would be happy to dump it and focus on further improving the popular and profitable routes on the coasts.

  75. Nuts at best! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting combination,
    The business plan of the postal service.
    The technical competence (not) of the FAA, or FBI, or IRS, or gee there are so many dumb stories about the govt deploying next gen technology, I just can't pick one.

    Next gen technology requires a mix of good, quick and cheap. The problem is that China can do quick and cheap and is getting good at good. On it's best days, the government can occasionally do good, but quick or cheap is not something usually associated with the government. For anything called nextgen, this is a problem. By the time government nextgen shows up, it's about 2 gens behind.

    For technology, if you want to kill the arsenal of democracy, just put the government in charge.
    This seems both a happy dream for TLA's and a nightmare for keeping America competitive.
    As much as we love to hate the carriers, this will make us wish for them back.

    OTOH, deploying long haul fiber is not like this. Fiber technology changes much slower and requires rights of way. It is also an enabler for wireless and could be a lever to make the fixed service providers play fair. If you want to build a national infrastructure, build a backbone transit network and make rules of the road to control what an ISP has to do for his customers to use it. This should keep the TLA's happy and maybe actually help make the US more competitive.

    Given how the FCC has been acting, I have a low bar of hope here. Hopefully, they will do no harm, but it looks scary for all concerned including the national security.

  76. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please define "millenials" while I'm grabbing MY popcorn.

    Millenials = People who still eat popcorn.

  77. Protecting us from foreign adversary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really... this administration is trying to protect us from a foreign country trying to use cyberwarfare to destroy Democracy? Something doesn't sound quite right.

  78. Adopt a fiber optic cable by stooo · · Score: 1

    Adopt a fiber optic cable
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic...

    --
    aaaaaaa
  79. One pertinent question by TVmisGuided · · Score: 1

    Who builds the hardware that runs 5G infrastructure?

    For that matter, are there any American companies making hardware that supports 4G infrastructure?

    --
    All the world's an analog stage, and digital circuits play only bit parts.
  80. odd pairing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so, to be clear, federalized healthcare: bad, federalized communication infrastructure: good?

    this guy...

  81. This is great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pending one can actually trust the government that takes this over and who regulates it. But we are fooling ourselves here. Historically and even today, we have plenty of examples as to why our government shouldn't be trusted with this. Using China, which is a self-inflicted adversary to start with, as an attempt to point out the the US as being the lesser of two evils is not good enough anymore. Time to make a stand. It is time to opt out and let the technology die at the vine. We don't need it.

  82. A Cynical View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The presentation suggests that a government-built network would then be leased out to carriers like AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile."

    Translation: Why make big telecom pay for all that pesky infrastructure when we could put that on the taxpayers, then hand it over to telco to reap the profits?

  83. I mean come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I for one am looking forward to our fascist pushed NSA developed security network that will be built using our tax dollars and eventually allow companies to build tiered pricing access models on. I mean what could go wrong Trump is for it, amirite?

  84. Great idea? by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
    No.

    Set a frequency band. Have a few regulations to make everyone to play nice with each other. Let anyone set up equipment to set up equipment to work within those frequencies. Then butt the fuck out.

  85. Who is really Nationalizing? by sycodon · · Score: 1

    If the 5G carries are slowly being purchased by Chinese companies, which are without doubt creatures of the Chinese Government, then it could be said that the Chinese were the ones actually nationalizing the 5G networks in America.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  86. Development? by valnar · · Score: 1

    Who developed 5G? Because nationalizing a 5G network will work NOW but what about the next iteration? If private companies don't own it, who will do the R&D for 6G? Certainly not the government. Will Verizon or AT&T care anymore if they have to share the wealth? The short term success might be marred by long term goals.

    ie. We can also nationalize all medicine and current drugs will be cheaper, but who's gonna do the research on new ones?

    There needs to be some level of interest for private companies.

  87. BELL SYSTEM! by slashhax0r · · Score: 1

    Bell System! Bell System! Revive Western Electric!!!

  88. WiMax 2 is good enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    5G wireless is more bandwidth than neccessary. WiMax 2 is a tested, mature, IEEE standard, without much legacy material to deal with for security. Just build a well executed, WiMax 2 system instead.

  89. Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *COUGH*
    Socialism?
    Hitler much?
    Nationalizing something == socialism.
    Idiots.

    1. Re:Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so taxation is socialism. got it. Now go back to europe with your white trash crap.

  90. my what a big network you have by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the better to NSA/FBI traffic with my dear.

  91. Next news headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Slashdotters unanimously support Trump's administration policy" :)

  92. Trust the US Gov? Think Not! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably the real issue is that Chinese hardware is making the internet TOO secure for the US gov's comfort.

    Anyone remember that guy Snowden?

  93. I mean come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A network supported by a fascist president built by the NSA using tax payer dollars to allow private companies to sell services priced using tiered models, traffic shaped and only blocks "illegal" content.

    What could possibly go wrong? I mean Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, bunch of neoliberal, pc, Trump, Trump, Trump, fake news, Trump, Trump, liberal media, Trump, Trump, illegals, Trump, Trump, Trumpety Trump...

  94. Re:They cannot actually believe this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some American with mod points to burn couldn't handle the truth...

  95. Re:Grab the popcorn by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

    But neither insurance for basic health care nor for actually optional services.

    People take out insurance for "optional" things all the time, and it works well—the key differences from "health insurance" (as it exists today) being that it's a voluntary arrangement for both parties and that it's priced competitively, not politically. Insurance work for almost any situation where you have a risk and wish to exchange it for a predictable cost. As a substitute for charity, or a payment intermediary for routine care, it functions abysmally.

    --
    "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  96. If the feds are going to build a national system.. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Aside from all ideological objections, the biggest barrier to any kind of large-scale extended infrastructure project is the cost and time of acquiring right-of-way. This is primarily what is killing the California HSR initiative, which despite using all off-the-shelf technology, has been stalled over this squabble.

    If the gummint is going to build a national fiber backbone, run it along the sides of the Interstate Highway System for zero right-of-way cost. Fiber could be buried for the most part under the right shoulder of existing pavement, or where appropriate, in the median. At each major exit, have a set of tap points that local ISPs would compete and contract for access to, serving the local area along the interchange road. Let one tap at each of these points be reserved for local volunteer organizations, hobbyist and user groups with an interest in getting licensed to operate "ham Internet" service.

    The tag line for such a backbone might be "You already know where it goes. You already know where to access it."

  97. Every i-crime becomes a Federal crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every internet *issue* becomes a Federal Issue. I'm not so sure that I like that idea.

    Many Internet crimes are already Federal crimes. But this just cements the
    double-whammy of state and federal punishment and abuse. I'm not committing
    any crimes, nor do I have plans to do so. But I could see this being a problem
    regarding State Rights, abuse of Fed. Authority, and a backlog of court cases
    with wacko (mostly liberal now) federal judges.

  98. Alligators! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People. Very fine people. The bigliest, bestest people with the most words.

    Other people came before, bad people! But I, your Orange Overlord, Drained the Swamp! The crocodiles are all gone, replaced with fine American alligators! Winning!

    Make America Stupid Again!!!

  99. Australia's NBN Fiasco by aberglas · · Score: 1

    So here in Oz, the government decided to give every on fibre to the home, forgetting the costs. It was hailed as a road to the future. It was praised by the Tech community -- 100 mhz to each house. The internet super highway.

    But there was no business plan. No costing of alternatives. And most importantly, no proper analysis of real need which was for people without broadband rather than for higher capacity for those with it.

    Then the government changed, and they went to fibre to the node + cable. Many tech people screamed "Fraudband" because this would deliver only 25mhz, not 100mhz.

    But here is the kicker. Most people do not need 100hz, and are not willing to pay for it. Most households are not even willing to pay for 25mhz. It only takes 2mhz to watch DVD quality Netflix, and that is all many households need.

    The price of mobile data is crashing down. Now about $5/Gig. Soon $1/Gig. (No unlimited but artificially limited plans in Oz.) At that point it starts to become cheaper than the NBN. And many people are choosing to go mobile INSTEAD of the NBN.

    If half (say) of the population end up avoiding the NBN, the fixed cost economics are a disaster, and the taxpayer will end up footing even more the bill.

    The moral is the way that government could be swayed by the Tech crowd into the stupid policy. Private enterprise, when their own money is on the line, tend to be more pragmatic, for better or worse.

    1. Re:Australia's NBN Fiasco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Private enterprise, when their own money is on the line, tend to be more pragmatic, for better or worse.

      It's a fair point, and nicely done not saying the way it is usually said, i.e. "government fucks up everything they do, because big projects span multiple administrations adverse to each other, inflating costs to the absurd while unscrupulous business takes advantage of the situatuon, and government workers can't be fired and have no incentive to do something right the first time." I'm sure the solution is something similar to allowing free enterprise, but with the close scrutiny of oversight and government regulation. If there was never a Republican majority favoring eliminating all regulation, always, we would be close to that by now. Or if everyone was forced to vote in their economic interests, all other concerns be damned. As it is, it is always one step forward, two steps back.

  100. Makes spying simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why bother with Stingray devices when you own the whole network! Of course the government security agencies are for this. They've been so careful with our 4th Amendment rights so far. What could go wrong?

  101. Electronic Cottage... by Doctrinsograce · · Score: 1

    We should be working hard to make it easy to work from home... We need the bandwidth to do this... Telepresence should be something we diligently pursue. Imagine taking all that Federal money building trains and such, and pouring it into this industry! Don't move bodies... move minds!

  102. Total lack of understanding... by MercTech · · Score: 1

    The federal government cannot take over a 5G network. .. First reason is that there is no 5G network yet. With the history of the large cellular companies being totally reluctant to improve infrastructure I doubt it will happen this decade. We don't even have a 4G network in the U.S. There is limited penetration of 4Glte which is 3G+ (or 4G light) elsewhere in the world. .. Second reason is that the bandwidth doesn't belong to the populace but companies LEASE the radio bandwidth and the leases are done by competitive bid. ALL radio traffic in a country is governed by international treaty. In the U.S. the agency that oversees radio usage is the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Yep, this was a bit of fake news written by someone that has no foggy clue about radio frequency licensing.

    --
    NRRPT/RCT
  103. Nationalize Healthcare first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do something beneficial for poor people.