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'King of Kong' Billy Mitchell Stripped Of Donkey Kong Record For Emulator Cheating (hothardware.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the how-low-can-you-go dept.

MojoKid writes: More drama is unfolding in the ultra-competitive retro arcade gaming scene... Billy Mitchell, the arcade legend who appeared as a central character opposite Steve Wiebe in the documentary The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters, has been accused of cheating his way into the record books for high scores in Donkey Kong. As a result, he's now been stripped of his 1.062 million score on the Donkey Kong Forums...

The legitimacy of his score was called into question by Donkey Kong high score judge Jeremy "Xelnia" Young laid out a body of evidence that seems to prove Mitchell recorded several of his high scores on the open source arcade emulator MAME, though he claimed his scores were obtained on an original arcade cabinet, and therefore were not subject to same strict authentication requirements. "It's possible they were recorded in one shot," Young says, but "Given the play style in Billy's videos, it's more likely that vanilla MAME's INP recording feature was abused."
Twin Galaxies recently threw out the 35-year-old record for the Atari 2600 game Dragster, and has now said they're "in the process of fully reviewing the compelling evidence provided by Jeremy Young."

58 comments

  1. Cheaters and liars will never hold the field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Said a decent man, against the grain, recently.

  2. What's next? by OpenSourced · · Score: 1

    First Dragster, now Kong... Will Space Invaders be next, or.. or.. even, I dare not say it, yes, even Pong? Will Pong fail too? Now that I think of it, you cannot have a Pong record, can you?

    --
    Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
    1. Re:What's next? by bigdady92 · · Score: 2

      The only way to win Pong is not to play. /WOPR

      --
      Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
    2. Re: What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well yeah, if you're a computer without the ability to manipulate the control paddles.

  3. I believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It might be a little biased, but anyone who saw King of Kong knows Billy Mitchell wasn't above resorting to cheating if he had to.

    1. Re:I believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The movie was a pile of steaming lies but you are correct, he is not beyond cheating to get the attention

      However, he really is that good at playing those games

      I watched him play Ms PacMan blindfolded

    2. Re:I believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to be extra naïve to see Billy Mitchell and his stupid beard and his dumb haircut and his ridiculous ties and not assume right away he's up to no good.

    3. Re:I believe it by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      This might be a subtle troll, but Ms Pacman was a big deal because it was one of the first video games with a random number generator.

      Regular Pacman you could memorize patterns for most of the levels. If you repeat those exact joystick and button movements, the ghosts move in the same way in response every time. When I was I was a kid playing Oregon Trail on the Apple ][, my dad could play Pacman with patterns memorized until past the "apple" level. My dad was using patterns with visual cues, but you could also learn to do it off of a clock and then do it blindfolded.

      Ms Pacman there were no patterns of that sort. Somebody playing with a blindfold is cheating.

    4. Re:I believe it by LordSkippy · · Score: 1

      However, he really is that good at playing those games

      In this instance, all they have proof of is that he used MAME to play the game ROMs, instead of the original hardware. Million plus score on DK in MAME is just as impressive to me as on the original hardware.

      --
      My karma is in a nose dive
    5. Re:I believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes you are a troll and no he was not cheating

    6. Re:I believe it by lgw · · Score: 1

      Unless he also abused emulator features to cheat. That's why emulator runs have additional requirements to prove you're not cheating before they count.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re: I believe it by iapetus · · Score: 1

      No. They also have proof that he claimed to have used original arcade hardware for those runs. Why would you like about that?

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    8. Re: I believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. They also have proof that he claimed to have used original arcade hardware for those runs. Why would you like about that?

      because at the time the emulator runs didn't count for the leaderboards. even now, it's a separate thing, and i think the high score was over 1.2 million.

    9. Re:I believe it by LordSkippy · · Score: 1

      Some are accusing Billy of using the save state feature in MAME on those runs. Still, even then, it's impressive. Just doesn't belong in the high score list for either original hardware or MAME. Even if he didn't abuse MAME features to achieve the score, still doesn't belong in the original hardware high score list.

      It was wrong to try to pass it off as an original hardware run, and taints his other records.

      --
      My karma is in a nose dive
    10. Re:I believe it by pezpunk · · Score: 2

      actually what it proves is that he has LIED for YEARS about how he achieved those scores, and went to an awful lot of trouble to conceal it.

      the onus is always on the player to prove they achieved those scores. using an emulator makes it trivially easy to cheat, so it therefore removes any shred of "proof" that a video of him playing would have otherwise provided.

      --
      i could live a little longer in this prison
    11. Re: I believe it by pezpunk · · Score: 2

      which means his scores are invalid. it also means he's a cheat and a liar. why on earth would you defend this piece of shit?

      --
      i could live a little longer in this prison
    12. Re:I believe it by Verdatum · · Score: 1
      According to these guys, and according to the rules, use of an emulator is not allowed because supposedly, they don't behave exactly the same as an actual arcade circuitboard. I'm not quite sure I believe their claims, but they feel strongly about it, and Billy was well aware of this, and yet he apparently deceptively used an emulator anyway.

      His score is still rather impressive, and no one disputes that the guy is really good at arcade games, he just doesn't deserve a record when he's breaking the rules.

  4. And nobody with a life gave a shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Geek’n’Nerd Problems.

    1. Re:And nobody with a life gave a shit. by pezpunk · · Score: 2

      the tagline for this website is literally "news for nerds" you stupid ignorant dipshit.

      --
      i could live a little longer in this prison
  5. Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there ever was a person who defines douche, it's him.

  6. Who cares? by PPH · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Do these titles have a lot of marketing value or command some stream of income? I mean, if they ever come to take away my record for being able to piss the farthest, I'm sure I'll still survive.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Chicks are lining up around the block.

    2. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's one chick. She's just been snorfing M&M's since 1983.

    3. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do these titles have a lot of marketing value or command some stream of income?

      Yes. There's Billy Mitchell hot sauce. People pay celebrities for their autograph (not sure if Billy Mitchell charged or not). People get paid for speaking engagements (again, not sure but I presume that's true for Billy Mitchell).

      I mean, if they ever come to take away my record for being able to piss the farthest, I'm sure I'll still survive.

      Do you really have a record? Did you record it? Did you make several hundred attempts? Did you send it to TwinPissings? Did you, over several decades, gloat about how you're the best? Clearly people care about high scores enough to get them or take the top spot. In some small way, it shows you're better than everyone else. For some people, that's clearly important to them, even if they have to cheat to get it.

      PS - I've no idea if Billy Mitchell actually meaningfully cheated--ie, the emulator gave him an actual edge--although clearly he broke the rules and the action makes it harder to verify/trust his achievement. That's enough of a basis to dethrone him. I wonder what it'll do to his hot sauce business.

    4. Re:Who cares? by shubus · · Score: 1

      I agree! Who cares? These guys need to GET A LIFE.

    5. Re:Who cares? by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      Speed running is a fairly big community and there are a lot of people streaming it on services like Twitch. Billy Mitchell made something of a career around hist record I believe, so I suppose it may be possible that other people might be able to. I don't know if it's something that can earn an average person a living if not doing it in conjunction with something else, but Games Done Quick just raised over $2 million for charity in a recent event that features speed running all manner of games over the course of a week so I think there's a lot of interest in it.

      Besides all of that, is it really any different than cheating in something else like cycling or other sports? People are just naturally pissed at other people who cheat.

    6. Re:Who cares? by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 2

      You'd be surprised. No it's not like being a movie star or famous singer, but they get some notoriety that can be translated into cash (sort of like a youtube celeb). I think mostly it's about ego. You're the best (in the world!) at something and for some people that's all they have going for them.

    7. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a user account on Slashdot, you're in no position to tell other people to get a life.

    8. Re:Who cares? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Imagine finding out that Luke Skywalker used auto-aim to make that shot on the Death Star. Imagine discovering that Columbus used sat nav to reach America.

      Okay, okay, but this is a big deal to people into these old games, because Mitchell has a lot of records. First person to get a perfect score on pacman, for example. But now any of them that were not done in public, which is most, are in doubt. Well, even the public ones... Did he modify the machines somehow?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Who cares? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This seems to go deeper than just Billy Mitchell. Looking back now a few of his scores were accepted with only Twin Galaxies staff witnessing them. It really looks like there was corruption at the top of that organization.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Who cares? by pots · · Score: 1

      I care, but that's because I've seen the movie and so I enjoy the followup. I'm not sure I like your suggestion that things which don't have an income stream don't matter... My dog doesn't have an income stream, he matters. I can think of a lot of people who make more money than my dog and who matter a whole lot less.

    11. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Imagine finding out..."

      Imagine if such a thing as a Nuclear Bullet actually existed. It does, and they have for some time. (570MeV/N, 20Ne+10. 4He works nearly as well. Even Protons Bragg Peak enough.)
      Imagine if after some incredible group effort, such a Nuclear Bullet was delivered with millimeter accuracy over a some 400KM path right into a Tumor just behind the Right Retina of a terrified young Girl. (She was chosen for this because in a couple of weeks more, it wouldn't matter any longer.)
      Imagine if such a Nuclear Bullet actually worked. It does. It zapped that Tumor behind that young Girl's Eye, with little long-term effect on surrounding tissues, as if that mattered for her. But it does now, for others.
      We used the Best of the current Technology, with banks of MODCOMP IVs, and the very best of the RTOS Tech then available. We weren't playing Vidya Games. This was Real.
      She still died, but that Tumor when later dissected was jelly.

      There is something very humanly Wrong with _all_ of you Gamers.
      You waste our Time, and you contribute nothing.
      Screw this Billy Mitchell up the ass with a Spring-Loaded Pineapple Surprise. (There are other Mitchells by that name that deserves far better consideration.)

    12. Re: Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So instead of fake shooting people online in video games, you want us to shoot people for real? With nuclear bullets? On the off chance that they had a tumor there??? And you think nuclear bullet fragments won't cause more tumors later?

      And we're the fucked up ones?

      Who the fuck are you? You do know that turning a tumor into jelly is of no significance right? You have to stop why tumors are happening too, not just get rid of existing tumors. And if you cause more damage like say...blasting a hole through somebody's head you aren't helping.

    13. Re:Who cares? by PPH · · Score: 1

      But now any of them that were not done in public, which is most, are in doubt.

      I enjoy the sports and games that I play. And I might watch people better then me to pick up pointers. Or just because I appreciate the skill that goes into it, having played it myself. But fame based only on a high score? I may watch the Superbowl tomorrow (may, because it's not my favorite sport and I've never played). But I forgot who won last year.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    14. Re: Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well now, that is entirely your frantic projection, based on your own worthless reason for existence. Feeling Guilty much?
      Our Bragg Peak Nuclear Bullets eventually saved lives; we lived and live in this Real World.
      Just what the fuck are you so defensive about? Your pathetic primitive Gamer mentality... we weeded out people just like you from these sorts of things long ago. You will never, ever, be let in. We just let you, and people like you, play Vidya Games.

      Bragg Peak Radiotherapy is painless; it's actually quite pleasant. Tobias set up an Eyeflash Station above the Shielding, for those scared of what was to come. It duplicated the experience of those Astronauts who first experienced the effect of Cosmic Rays, (Heavy Ions up to the Mass of Iron or so.), on the Optic Nerves behind the Retinas. Eyeflashes are sort of wonderful, and not scary at all. Somehow, in the confusion, Cornelius Tobias didn't get this Girl to see the Eyeflashes before we zapped her. There was some sort of PR thing going on, run by an utter self-promoting prick by the name of Gary Krebs. He too was later kept far away from the impatient Patients.
      Let's call her Maxine. 'Hey, Maxine, look down this tube. Look down at the pretty Eyeflashes! This won't hurt at all, and this time we mean it. That little painful bothersome thing behind your Right Eye? After this, Dead Jelly. We guarantee it." Of course, maybe only the Parents of Maxine fully grasped this, since they signed the Consent Forms: Maxine was soon to be Ex-Maxine.

      This of course is utterly beyond you. What is it that you said, something about "...blasting a hole through somebody's head..."?
      Fucking Gamer pricks. Always reducing things that they can't possibly comprehend into Third Grade Schoolyard Bully terms. Nucular Bulut goes in, make big hole, yeah! 100 points!
      Utter Unreality.

      Listen, bub, this is exactly why shitty ignorant frozen-adolescent creeps like you are only allowed to play Vidya Games. You aren't nearly adult enough to deal with our adult subjects, like our once brave and then shortly and perpetually scared 17 year old Maxine.
      fuck you very much

      {Heavy Ion Bragg Peak Radiotherapy Trials were held at the Bevalac Complex during the decade before it was closed. The Technique was pioneered there first by John Lawrence, brother of Ernest, at the old 184" Cyclotron, now the site of the Advanced Light Source. The Bevatron, a parking lot for years, is being reconstructed as Office Space.)

    15. Re:Who cares? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      It's news for nerds, jackass. Get another website, this one's not for you.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    16. Re: Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Adult subjects"? You mean subjects that are outside the scope for the average person to ever know about? Are you doing ANYTHING here except masturbating?

    17. Re: Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you are so insecure that you have to come to a thread about video games and go into excruciating detail about a tumor zapping technique you were supposedly involved in. Let me guess, you were the janitor. Because if you had any meaningful role in the project, you'd be discussing this in Science, JAMA or the like, not in a thread about freaking Donkey Kong.

    18. Re: Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gamers... Have you any idea just how much you are despised, and just why?
      Masturbation is your obsession, not mine.
      After all, you first brought this up. Have you any other defense for your utterly self-obsessed jerk-off life, other than reducing me to your level? I don't play on these terms. I play on on terms of Reality.
      I win. You lose.
      Fuck off.

  7. Honestly, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Some people's kids these days.

  8. This is the End by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Twin Galaxies recently threw out the 35-year-old record for the Atari 2600 game Dragster,

    Nothing matters any more. Welcome to 2018.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  9. Twin Galaxies Credibly is shot they need big by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    Twin Galaxies Credibly is shot they need big changes.

    Maybe stuff like refs can't have scores maybe or very least can't review friends and family

    Some things need ref review

    Clear rules about useing game bugs and what is a bug may need per game lists just like per game settings lists.

    each rom ver has it own list both on real hardware and emulators (some of the pinball scores don't list rom / software ver and there are small to big changes for each one)
     

    1. Re: Twin Galaxies Credibly is shot they need big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had credibility before this?

      You are giving them more credit than they are due.

  10. All this on top of ... by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 2

    his insubordination. What is this world coming to?

  11. News that matters by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

    I can't see the gov't surviving this.

    --
    No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
  12. More Quotable Than Lebowski by Hortense+Yaya · · Score: 1

    It's not even about Donkey Kong anymore.

  13. Kong of Dong? by ruddk · · Score: 1

    So if he was the King of Kong,
    who was the Kong of Dong?
    And where does Don King fit into all of this?

    --
    L'Idiot
    1. Re:Kong of Dong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And where does King of Dong fit into all of this?

      You know where. your butt.

    2. Re:Kong of Dong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know who the king of kong is? Tommy Chong.

  14. Emulated by freelunch · · Score: 1

    It's not on like Donkey Kong.

  15. Now this too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So now the sanctity of video game high scores has been ruined too? Thanks Obama!

  16. Even nerds don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't about games or computing, it's about small-minded people fighting over who is more important in their little social clique.

    1. Re:Even nerds don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are objectively incorrect. This is about cheating for profit in a community of people who are competitive and skilled.

      Irony level >9000: you say this is small-minded people fighting over importance in their clique, devaluing the community for their actions. In doing so you are being small minded by removing the importance of the people in a social clique. The gaming community is not doing what you claim, only you are.

  17. About Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to say it's been fun, Twin Galaxies, but it hasn't. Lets keep this going and see all the cheaters stripped. Todd Rogers: I'm looking at basically all of what you've done.

  18. nerd culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the downsides of nerd culture is that it is hypercompetitive, frequently about incredibly stupid things. It's the reason fanboi arguments happen.

  19. Does it matter??? by Excelcia · · Score: 2

    Does this really matter? A) the scores they are striking aren't even in the top 10 any more, and B) they are striking him from #20 on the high score list for playing on MAME when it was supposed to have been played on a console, and the current #3, #10, #13, and #15 on the same list were admittedly played on MAME? How does that even make sense?

    The man has a publicly viewed score of 933,900. It's not like he doesn't have the talent. It's a tempest in an emulated teapot if you ask me.

  20. More on Billy Mitchell by justthinkit · · Score: 1

    Much more on Billy Mitchell (and the real Donkey Kong record holders)

    --
    I come here for the love