Lauri Love Ruling 'Sets Precedent' For Trying Hacking Suspects in UK (theguardian.com)

A high court ruling blocking extradition to the US of Lauri Love, a student accused of breaking into US government websites, has been welcomed by lawyers and human rights groups as a precedent for trying hacking suspects in the UK in future. From a report: The decision delivered by the lord chief justice, Lord Burnett of Maldon, is highly critical of the conditions Love would have endured in US jails, warning of the risk of suicide. Lawyers for the 33-year-old, who lives in Suffolk, had argued that Love should be tried in Britain for allegedly hacking into US government websites and that he would be at risk of killing himself if sent to the US. There was cheering and applause in court on Monday when Burnett announced his decision. He asked supporters to be quiet, saying: "This is a court, not a theatre." In his judgment, Burnett said: "It would not be oppressive to prosecute Mr Love in England for the offences alleged against him. Far from it. Much of Mr Love's argument was based on the contention that this is indeed where he should be prosecuted

Comments

Take note, Assange haters

[Uberbah]

Lawyers for the 33-year-old, who lives in Suffolk, had argued that Love should be tried in Britain for allegedly hacking into US government websites and that he would be at risk of killing himself if sent to the US.

Before blowing that off as outlandish, Sweden is known for keeping suspects incommunicado for weeks without even charging them, and then deporting them to other countries to face other charges. Obama had Chelsea Manning tortured with solitary confident for months - yes it's torture and it causes permanent damage after a couple weeks - and she eventually attempted suicide.

Re: Take note, Assange haters

[bluefoxlucid]

Actually, correctional systems in states such as North Dakota have started implementing policies to normalize the prison environment and improve correctional outcomes, among other things. They have a discretionary parole program there, too, to get people out of prison and instead control them via the mechanism of parole; and the governor can commute sentences at the request of the parole advisory board if they think it's a waste of resources to keep tabs on a guy with a 20-year sentence who got out on parole after 3 years and has been determined not a likely reoffender or otherwise threat to the community 6 months later.

Between expanded in-prison programs, more inmate autonomy, a better relationship between inmates and prison staff, expanded behavioral health services, and incoming and outgoing services to keep people out of prison or to stabilize them when they get out, the amount of trouble inmates cause in prison and the rate at which inmates reoffend has dropped considerably.

As a result of all of this, North Dakota went from having over a hundred inmates in solitary confinement to having maybe three; and they don't stay in solitary confinement for very long at all. Their caseworkers spend a lot of time with them, and they get cognitive therapy to help them improve so they can go back to general population quickly. It really is phenomenal.

It is my intent to drive similar change across the whole of the United States.

Re: Avoid the USA for the time being.

[c6gunner]

As a citizen I am scared to be in America at the moment.

Of course you are. Just like many conservatives were terrified to be in the US under Obama. That's what happens when you have a carroonish view of politics and react emotionally whenever you're not getting your way.

Re:Why would he be extradited in the first place?

[tsstahl]

Sooo, if I gamble online and the server is in Elbonia, I'm not breaking any US laws? 'Cuz the U.S. government does not agree.

Only point being, international jurisdiction is about as grey as gray can be, no matter how you spell it.

Re: Avoid the USA for the time being.

[DogDude]

That's what happens when you have a carroonish view of politics

I assume you meant cartoonish. I view of US politics is cartoonish right now, because the people at the top are cartoonish. I don't know what planet you're living on where what's happening in the US is *not* cartoonish.

First of many cases

[Solandri]

In the past, physical presence was needed to commit a crime (e.g. robbery). This had the natural result of criminals being caught in the jurisdiction in which they committed the crime. Extradition was only needed for criminals who fled the country after the crime.

The Internet changes all that. Now it's possible to reside in one jurisdiction (country), while committing a crime in another. The legal system is just coming to grips with this. c.f. the U.S. trying to get Microsoft's server data that's stored outside the country, France trying to apply its laws to the rest of the world, Kim Dotcom arrested in New Zealand at the behest of the U.S., etc.

Extradition agreements weren't really set up for suspects who fled to another country, not for this type of remote crime. So from this point on we'll be making up new stuff as we go along. It'll probably be a few more decades before it all gets settled down. If multiple judges rule as this judge has (and the same happens when some American kid hacks UK computers), I expect the U.S. and UK will negotiate new extradition treaties which specifically cover this type of case, thereby limiting the leeway the judge had in this particular case.

Re:Avoid the USA for the time being.

[fafalone]

Oh please. The US (nearly all (R) and a good percent of (D)) has zero interest in becoming less involved in world affairs. We love wars and won't stop. Trump is about to start another one. All that whining about providing defense for Europe is just extortion. We're just as bad as ever at playing world police, anyone who thinks we're actually doing less of that or becoming isolationists in military matters is outright deluded.

Re:Why would he be extradited in the first place?

[JoeDuncan]

The US Court system is the fairest one one the world.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

LOL - wait, you WERE *joking*, right? RIGHT?

You realize that the US incarcerates more people PER CAPITA, than ANY *OTHER* country - on the whole planet.

The only way you can reconcile that fact with your statement is if you accept that USians are at least - at *LEAST* - twice as criminal as any other population/culture in the world.

Re:Why would he be extradited in the first place?

[hey!]

The US Court system is the fairest one one the world.

Actually, the World Justice Project collects data on the rule of law world wide, and provides a web interface in which you can easily rank countries by whatever metric you are interested in.

For example, by the fairness of the criminal court system, the top five countries in order are Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Singapore. The US is in eighteenth place. The factors taken into account include: impartiality, due process protections, timely trials, and recidivism rates.

For civil cases, the Netherlands takes top place, with US placing 25th. Factors include affordability of access to civil justice, timeliness, impartiality, effective enforcement of judgments, and absence of political interference.

In general the US is nowhere near the top in these rule-of-law factors, but it's far from a dystopia; in general it's above average, keeping company with countries like France, Spain, and South Korea. It's the Nordic countries that score the best in most categories, with Singapore scoring high in measures of efficiency, security, regulatory enforcement and non-corruption but posting mediocre scores in government transparency, constraints on government, and individual rights.