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Lauri Love Ruling 'Sets Precedent' For Trying Hacking Suspects in UK (theguardian.com)
A high court ruling blocking extradition to the US of Lauri Love, a student accused of breaking into US government websites, has been welcomed by lawyers and human rights groups as a precedent for trying hacking suspects in the UK in future. From a report: The decision delivered by the lord chief justice, Lord Burnett of Maldon, is highly critical of the conditions Love would have endured in US jails, warning of the risk of suicide. Lawyers for the 33-year-old, who lives in Suffolk, had argued that Love should be tried in Britain for allegedly hacking into US government websites and that he would be at risk of killing himself if sent to the US. There was cheering and applause in court on Monday when Burnett announced his decision. He asked supporters to be quiet, saying: "This is a court, not a theatre." In his judgment, Burnett said: "It would not be oppressive to prosecute Mr Love in England for the offences alleged against him. Far from it. Much of Mr Love's argument was based on the contention that this is indeed where he should be prosecuted
Pardon my ignorance on law but if he committed the crime in the UK then why try and extridite him in the first place? I thought extradition was only if you committed a crime in a country and then left by the time they wanted to prosecute you.
If her nickname was 'Butt' ...
Lauri "Butt: Love....
LUALZ DENG!!
Didn't make it past the title to the summary I see. It would be ...His nickname.
Before blowing that off as outlandish, Sweden is known for keeping suspects incommunicado for weeks without even charging them, and then deporting them to other countries to face other charges. Obama had Chelsea Manning tortured with solitary confident for months - yes it's torture and it causes permanent damage after a couple weeks - and she eventually attempted suicide.
As a citizen I am scared to be in America at the moment.
Of course you are. Just like many conservatives were terrified to be in the US under Obama. That's what happens when you have a carroonish view of politics and react emotionally whenever you're not getting your way.
Why does a rich continent of 500 million people depend on a distant nation of 300 million to defend it against much poorer and weaker threats on its borders? Why do the nations of Europe outsource this most sacred of national responsibilities?
People in Europe go on ad nauseum about how America thinks it can police the world and butt its nose in every country's business. America has been hated for this especially since the Vietnam war. Well, we are doing less of that and they're whining that we are deserting everyone and becoming isolationists. Can't effing win.
America's role as the world's policemen are coming to an end. Too much money and blood being spent (and wasted) overseas and too many problems at home. All American bases on foreign soil should be closed and the troops brought home. Let the rest of the world deal with the mess for a change. For many it will be considered 'good riddance' anyway. We can defend our borders. Let others worry about theirs.
If we have to pay to have allies, then fuck them.
"Americans cannot care more for your children's future security than you do."
-- Maddog Mattis
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
The current leadership hard line approach to nearly everything with little to no thinking of any ethical ramification.
Don't be so dramatic. Every administration has taken a hard line approach when it comes to hackers. We put them in prison and throw away the key. While white collar criminals that rip off billions of dollars are out after a year, if punished at all. And murderers, actual fucking murderers, can get out sooner than a hacker.
The US government had made it clear for decades. Hackers are scum and have no rights. It's not Trump doing this, it's something baked into the culture of our legislature and executive branch. We operate a police state when it comes to computer crime and copyright infringement.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
That's what happens when you have a carroonish view of politics and react emotionally whenever you're not getting your way.
To be fair, Trump is a caricature of a politician, his administration follows his lead and he has congress backing him. He's also appointed many less than qualified federal judges, is attempting to discredit the FBI and undermine faith in the free press. His extreme behavior is very similar to dictators (which he admires). This is not normal.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Europe has thrived while the US defended them from internal and external strife. Now, Europe just is going to have to face the fact that they are going to have to have armies and navies again and have to spend a chunk of their GDP so they don't get overrun. Of course, they can easily continue the Merkel Doctrine and be overrun with Syrians, and the whole European identity be wiped off the face of the globe, just like how the Taliban and Daesh have destroyed all Buddhist and other cultures in Iraq and Afghanistan, wiping that from the pages of history.
Let Europe find its own way. They have nothing but contempt for the hand that feeds them.
If you think America is "defending Europe" in any way other than just protecting its own interests, I've got a bridge to sell you. No-one takes that seriously in any way. We've had to pay the dane-geld in terms of military bases, occupied land etc.
America is interested in one thing only: America. "World's Policeman" is about as realistic as the Easter Bunny. It's a menacing bully with a massive armed force. The moment that the bases aren't profitable in terms of the US economy they'll disappear. Just about everyone in Europe would love to see them pack up and leave. The rest of the world has been dealing with your mess, from Syria to Afghanistan to Iraq for years and years now, and there's one pattern alone: An intervention is NOT for humanitarian reasons, or to bring democracy, or anything other than "It is in America's business interest to do this".
Well, i'm one of those.
What was I afraid of? The to-the-hilt PR support the left and our media gave him, and the things he got away clean on. because of it.
things like extra-judicially executing american citizens. negotiating with terrorists, paying terrorists, paying ransoms? those _Absolutely Horrify_ me. Because we CANNOT do that, there's no long term positive and the long term negatives Are Awful.
Then you look at his using our intelligence apparatus politically, from the IRS targeting his political opponents, to unmasking US intelligence collections against the trump admin. to letting the hillary clinton off the hook on DNCgate.
Top that with his fiscal policy (we'll pay the banks for bad banking decisions! we'll pay the auto industry for their bad decisions! we'll pump Trillions of dollars out of the fed into the Top of the economy instead of the bottom!) And his political policies (Giving up US sovereignty, attempting to give foreign courts and governments power inside our borders) And his social policies (undermining faith in our police and military, working to weaken them. landing on the wrong side of every last media frenzy where the headline contained the words 'black' and 'white' )
Yeah. Scared Shitless.
The cheeto isn't the second coming of jesus christ, but just look at how hard the media is fighting to make him the antichrist. That should terrify you, if nothing else does.
The Alex Jones sorts? Like there is more than one person like that guy?
I never heard of him until Meghan Kelly interviewed him on NBC (or whatever MSM thing she's on these days).
To say that there are enough Alex Jones like people in the world that it should have its own genre is disturbing and very different from what I've seen out there.
This judge is a troll and fabricating a caricature of the US.
I seem to recall other, similar extradition requests - Gary McKinnon for one, but several others.
What makes this one special?
I seem to recall that Gary also had Asperger's and Depression... which doesn't seem to make this one a precedent at all.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
So, you were worried that Barack Obama was going to extra-judicially execute you? You lived for eight years "scared to death" of being extra-judicially executed?
God man, being afraid all the time is no way to live.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Is this something common in the UK? Sounds like a girls name in the US.
Or, is this a Bruce Jenner "change of life" type thing in this case?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
That's what happens when you have a carroonish view of politics
I assume you meant cartoonish. I view of US politics is cartoonish right now, because the people at the top are cartoonish. I don't know what planet you're living on where what's happening in the US is *not* cartoonish.
I don't respond to AC's.
Why? Because quite frankly for about 5 or 6 decades, the US viewed the growth of the influence of the USSR, China, and Communism in general as an existential threat ... the idea of a world where that system of government had influence was deemed incompatible with Americas goal of being important and saving the world for democracy. So in pursuing your self interest, you injected yourself into every other country.
Now, you're not so important, your interests in democracy are reflect by the fact that you whine that the UN isn't your personal lapdogs and have utterly given up on the rest of the world.
So, as your influence wanes, and your self appointed role on the planet is something you're now acting like the rest of the world owes you for ... by all means, become the useless isolationist idiots you seem to want to become.
But don't be surprised when your influence wanes, our desire to buy your products diminishes, we start slapping tariffs on your products because of your increasing use of fossil fuels, and in general the rest of the world stops giving a damn what you say.
America used to be a super power because they led by example. Now you're just a bunch of whiny assholes.
So, by all means, pull back, and watch your own global relevance diminish. And watch the rest of the world set up alliances which have nothing to do with you.
In the past, physical presence was needed to commit a crime (e.g. robbery). This had the natural result of criminals being caught in the jurisdiction in which they committed the crime. Extradition was only needed for criminals who fled the country after the crime.
The Internet changes all that. Now it's possible to reside in one jurisdiction (country), while committing a crime in another. The legal system is just coming to grips with this. c.f. the U.S. trying to get Microsoft's server data that's stored outside the country, France trying to apply its laws to the rest of the world, Kim Dotcom arrested in New Zealand at the behest of the U.S., etc.
Extradition agreements weren't really set up for suspects who fled to another country, not for this type of remote crime. So from this point on we'll be making up new stuff as we go along. It'll probably be a few more decades before it all gets settled down. If multiple judges rule as this judge has (and the same happens when some American kid hacks UK computers), I expect the U.S. and UK will negotiate new extradition treaties which specifically cover this type of case, thereby limiting the leeway the judge had in this particular case.
Oh please. The US (nearly all (R) and a good percent of (D)) has zero interest in becoming less involved in world affairs. We love wars and won't stop. Trump is about to start another one. All that whining about providing defense for Europe is just extortion. We're just as bad as ever at playing world police, anyone who thinks we're actually doing less of that or becoming isolationists in military matters is outright deluded.
He's half Finnish. Lauri is a common male name there.
It's not profitable at all for America to occupy Europe. In fact, it is hugely expensive. Europeans refuse to pay for their own defense and reacted quite angrily when Trump presented them with a bill for failing to reach their (quite low) 2% spending minimum.
Funny that when not so long ago when the US president questioned the sustainability and fairness of the NATO alliance, all of a sudden NATO is important for Europe's defense. All of a sudden the Europeans who never gave the US any credit for its disproportionate contributions think it's preposterous and a selfish betrayal to criticize the nature of the alliance. Europe is such a joke.
Europe (and the world) is vastly different than it was in 1949. Surely you don't mean to imply that the world's largest trading block with 500 million people and the highest GDP can't defend itself?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Extortion? How? Old Europe refuses point-blank to spend the minimum required by NATO for defense. How's it profitable when you have to pay and pay to defend a continent full of people who hate you? America has 50,000 troops in Germany whose primary job is keep the small businesses afloat.
The US fought the Cold War to keep the Russians off Western European soil, and mitigated ethnic tensions in the region, and all we got in return was European propaganda about how imperialistic and colonial the US is from the very guys who fucked the world up in the first place. It's a total farce and it's high time it came to a screeching halt.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Just to upset you some more. It is quite possible for an English male to be named "Vivian".
Over there in the states you have guys named "Randy" for goodness sake.
USG tortured Chelsea Manning - who eventually attempted suicide - with months of solitary confinement.
"UN isn't your personal lapdogs"
OK this is just crazy. Since when has the UN been anything other than a hotbed of hate for America? The US withdrew from UNESCO in 1984 because "because the agency has been politicized leftward and is financially irresponsible."
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
You think anti-vax is a leftwing conspiracy theory? Hmm.
https://twitter.com/realdonald...
https://www.infowars.com/resea...
This doesn't exist.
9/11 "false flag" conspiracies are a conservative phenomenon.
http://www.slate.com/articles/...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Obviously, he's terrified of the consequences for the nation that extra-judicial executions implicate.
But, you knew that. Why deliberately misinterpret his post?
Every POTUS has faults and does bad stuff. HWB GWB, BC, BHO, *all* have done bad stuff.
We need to call out the individual bad actions/decisions and not hand-wave them away just because of the party they belong to, and on the flip side, give credit when something they do/decide works out well regardless of Party.
It's the only way things will det better in America.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Why does a rich continent of 500 million people depend on a distant nation of 300 million to defend it against much poorer and weaker threats on its borders?
Uh, they DON'T. Full stop.
America's role as the world's policemen are coming to an end.
GOOD! Go the fuck home and leave the rest of the world alone for once. FFS.
I hope Julian Assange is reading this.
Have gnu, will travel.
The FBI did themselves in.
Trump would like the press to be full of actual news, not tabloid headlines. Demanding the press stick to facts instead of fabricating stories in a great thing.
People follow him because he is a good leader.
Look at Pelosi and Booker. They thought they were in an acting audition for a HS musical during the SOTU. They're not leaders.
America is lucky to have Trump as president.
Yep, I never spell check.
More incorrect spellings can be found he
The UN was literally invented by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (USA) together with Winston Churchill (UK), the first draft was written by them personally together with Harry Hopkins (USA), and the UN Charta was drafted in San Francisco (USA). Why do you think the UN Headquarters is located in Manhattan, New York (USA)??
Gosh, it isn't 1944 any more. The UN functions today as a forum for anti-Americanism. That's what it is, that's what it does, and suggesting that the UN is some kind of American puppet is really out there. America pays and pays and yet the UN feels free to bite the hand that feeds it. How else to explain the recent resounding American defeat in the Palestinian vote?
A lot of Americans have been saying for a long time that the UN needs to be kicked out. Their diplomats take all the benefits of living in NYC while parking their cares wherever they feel like it, driving drunk, and hitting Americans and not having to pay.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Uh, hate to break it to you, but Europe depends utterly on the Americans to keep Putin's panzers out of Paris.
GOOD! Go the fuck home and leave the rest of the world alone for once. FFS.
Statements like that are exactly the kind of shitty, smug European attitude that results in Americans questioning the usefulness of NATO. Not only are you ungrateful, you go in the opposite direction and have a derisive view of the US despite how much you depend on it. Also what you just said has no grounding in reality, at all. You can't even base your hateful attitude on facts.
Only 2.7% of European troops are trained and equipped to a sufficient degree to be deployed in combat.
The Germans have literally had to use broomsticks in place of machine guns and only 8 of their 109 Eurofighters are operational.
All of the military forces of the entire EU combined only have 10% of the capability that the US military possesses. Russia is way closer to the US in military capability than the EU is.
In general, Europe depends on the US for defense and to protect their interests
NATO "allies" flat-out refuse to pay their fair share for their own defense. Mr Schulz said: "Of course, we are a strong and reliable Nato member. However, I'm not of the opinion that Nato member states have agreed to achieve this goal of spending two per cent of their GDP for defence. This would mean a substantial financial burden for Germany."
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
The man behind the Hydraulic Press Channel is named Lauri, in fact.
Under George W Bush, while I disagreed with the policies, I wasn't worried about the country direction as I am now. Policies even if I disagree with them based on moderated reasoning, and for the most part with the general interest of the country at hand I can deal with and willing to put up with a policy I don't like for 4-8 years while using my rights as a citizen to disagree with it.
However today I don't feel the in power party is out for anyone's interests expect for that of the party. They are looking for things that can get past, they have disrupted many of the 2/3 majority votes in order to Ram policies and a supreme court placement in order to cut out the minority party.
Yes the democrats are just as bad as the republicans under Obama in obstruction as much as they can, I am not excusing that where they could possible try harder to find a good middle ground. However the GOP is just trying to scramble to show that they can do something, no matter the cost, and with the view to try to make Blue States Pay for not being in line.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Of course you are. Just like many conservatives were terrified to be in the US under Obama.
Why would conservatives ever be terrified in a country that alternates between moderately conservative and extremely conservative policies?
LOL. And when Trump said let's withdraw from NATO, the screams were loud and numerous. Suddenly NATO became Europe's prized asset and America was Europe's best friend. Ungrateful freeloaders.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Are you seriously aligning the interests of the globalists in the US government with the interests of the American people? We had fuck-all to do with that coup shit. Hell, the CIA did a lot of those on its own while trying to hide its involvement from the elected government. This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's established fact.
The solution, however, is not to turn away from friends and alliances which have been built up for more than half a century.
Gotta love that attitude. FUCK YOU USA and then turn right around and DON'T LEAVE USA YOU FUCKING ISOLATIONIST ASSHOLES. Jesus Christ, you really can't see it, can you?
building fucking walls never solved any problem ever
If walls don't work, then why did Zuckerberg build one? Heck, even Obama builds a wall, I wonder what kind of problem he had? I guess the wall solved it!
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Please, stop trying to think, you're no good at it.
You needed a semicolon after "think".
The US loses money doing business with Europe. There is a huge trade imbalance that Europe refuses to make fair. The European Union, which exports lots of vehicles to the United States, has an import duty of 10 percent; ours is 2.5 percent. Car & Driver magazine reports that the 10 percent duty imposed on imports into the European Union is preventing BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen from building more factories here in which to make cars for export to Europe.
I don't watch Fox news unless someone posts a link there. In fact, I don't watch TV at all. Where'd you even get that idea? Try thinking sometime, it might hurt but it's well worth it.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Are you on medication? Check your blood pressure.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Under the Westminster system (UK, Canada, Australia, NZ etc.) judges are appointed by the Executive on the recommendation of the MoJ.
These tend to be legal professionals, although a higher number of prosecutors than defence lawyers are appointed as a rule.
Therefore there is no election/ public to appease in the US sense so this sort of populist tends to be much less applicable.
New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
Britain will regret this decision. At some point in time a criminal wanted in Britain will be in the US and Trump will prevent the extradition. Tit-for-tat....
Caution: Contents under pressure
We're defending them because of *our* interests, not theirs. It's not a charity act. It's to exert power and control and provide a buffer against Russia. They don't pay because it's not for them, it's for us, and they know it, so attempting to extort protection money isn't working. I happen to agree that it should stop because of a principled belief that the military should be relegated to domestic defense only, but it's not happening no matter how much or how little Europe pays.
As they should be (fucking a chick named Randy? Nope. Nope. Nope). Where I'm from, strippers have the decency to call themselves "Randi".
Dicky > Dick. IMO, anyways.
My female server last week spells Lawrence and pronounces it like "Lor-once" all frenchy sounding. She was not hot after I heard that.
Sure: The patriarchy.
You sound sheltered.
He must be a relative of Bin Laden.
You're only fooling yourself. Enjoy the upcoming impeachment.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Buffer against Russia? We have the Atlantic ocean. How's it in our interest to have a "buffer"? It's not in our interest at all - it's in theirs! We're getting ripped off by a bunch of ungrateful freeloaders.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
This is what Scott Adams calls a 'hallucination' and now that I know how to spot them, they're fascinating to discover in the wild. He literally said, "What was I afraid of? things like extra-judicially executing american citizens." and you hallucinated that it was him saying he was personally afraid of being assassinated. I'm starting to think any comment that starts with "so" followed by a misstatement of the opponent's argument is the tell for this.
It happened bigtime in the Jordan Peterson interview with the BBC where the interviewer repeatedly says "so you're saying" followed by stating something he did not say. He repeatedly contradicts her and tells her again what he said, and it makes no impression on her. She was literally hallucinating and it's obvious to everyone.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Seeing the name I immediately thought "Lowry"
- Has anyone seen Mr. Lowry?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Like Dickie Bird, or Dickie Attenborough?
Beverly is also a contender. Beverly can be used for a male in England
10% is the standard WTO tariff. If the USA wants to lower it then a trade deal with the EU would deal with that. The USA not wishing to impose the WTO tariff is up to it. Note that for light trucks the USA imposes a 25% duty on imports from the EU, due to a war in the 1960s over chicken. A 25% duty won't encourage the EU to reduce its duty.
It's very unlikely that Volkswagen, etc., would set up factories in the USA to make cars for the European market, as they've already set up large factories in the cheaper parts of Europe where costs are much lower, even before import duties, than the USA, and in a market where there is a free-trade zone (the EU). And that's even before considering the issues of transport of the cars to a port, across an ocean, to a port, and onwards. To get a consignment of cars from Poland to France you just put them on a truck and drive them there.
The article that you refer to does not seem to be well thought out.
Uh, hate to break it to you, but Europe depends utterly on the Americans to keep Putin's panzers out of Paris.
Whilst Putin might welcome a weaker USA and EU, I can't understand why you think he'd want to roll tanks into Paris. Not least because the French have nuclear weapons.
Please do not mix us British in with the Jerries and other Foreigners. Yes we might have a smaller military than we used to but it's still got an uncanny ability to batter an opponent between the eyes and we have lots of experience of hammering natives in sandy countries plus giving the Latinos a smack down south. And if it all goes to rat-shit, we and French are more than capable of turning Moscow and quite a few Russian cities into thousand-year glass car parks. So as long as Putin stops at the French Border and doesn't cross the Channel, it's all good.
Can be, isn't.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
I assure you it is. Just the same as Vivian.
Uh, I don't know if you've been following world politics, but Putin's panzers are a threat to invade all of Europe and it's only the Americans who are keeping them out, because Europeans refuse to spend money on their militaries. Like, flat-out refuse.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
If you have some dosh,
You are not an American and have zero knowledge of the American legal system.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
LOL. And when Trump said let's withdraw from NATO, the screams were loud and numerous. Suddenly NATO became Europe's prized asset and America was Europe's best friend. Ungrateful freeloaders.
Which is why there is a large part of the European left that is happy for a Trump election. They feel he will so damage US relations and reputations that it cannot be repaired and will never regain control over the world again. There is a big difference between saying the US wants to reduce it's roll and for other nations to pick up the slack, something that Merkel had pretty much agreed to already, and picking up our toys and rage quitting at a party the US has organized and been telling people what to do. Yes, there is certain things the other NATO members can't do without the US, which is why we joined in on North Africa which was mostly a French and Italian thing. That is no doubt because we have previously let them know that we're behind them in an organization that we created. Now, they'll have second thought, know they can't depend on the US, and give less care to what we want as they move to duplicate what we do.
It's not profitable at all for America to occupy Europe. In fact, it is hugely expensive. Europeans refuse to pay for their own defense and reacted quite angrily when Trump presented them with a bill for failing to reach their (quite low) 2% spending minimum.
Hey, I'm all for lessing US involvement and making others pick up the slack. (That is pretty much Section 3 of the Libertairan party platform.) However, do not think for a second that things aren't the way they are because faction in the US want them that way. Our military isn't making us money and is way more than we need, but even Trump just wants to spend more for no return. While making Germany pay it's full 2% was an issue before the election, something that Merkel agreed to, he forgot all about it afterwards and just wants to spend, spend, spend.
France alone spends $55 billion on defence per year (since the comment was about Paris), Russia spends $70 billion. The five biggest economies in Europe outspend Russia by a factor of 2.5:1.
Who doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon? That seems like a shitty example to me, because those two things are awesome. Where I grew up, everybody liked rice. EVERYBODY ;)
If Europeans can defend themselves, then why was there such screaming when Trump wanted to pull us out of NATO? They should have said, "good riddance assholes" and sent us packing.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Uh, American control over the world is a *bad* thing. Just ask Iraq.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
People in Europe, overall, view the USA favourably, and want it engaged in important international bodies.
Bahaha! Nope, that's not true in the slightest. Europeans hate the USA and are not shy about saying it. You know who Europe regards as their greatest threat? Russia? Laughable. Not even in the top ten. Europe's greatest threat is America. And this was during the reign of Saint Obama the Scandal-Free, things are only worse now.
Europeans are not our friends, and it's high time we pulled our troops out and went home. Armies are expensive, but luckily they can afford it because they are rich developed nations. The US fought the Cold War to keep the Russians off Western European soil, and mitigated ethnic tensions in the region, and all we got in return was European propaganda about how imperialistic and colonial the US is from the very guys who fucked the world up in the first place. It's a total farce and it's high time it came to a screeching halt.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Uh, American control over the world is a *bad* thing. Just ask Iraq.
Not disagreeing with that. If anything, recent history has taught us that stability tends to be better than trying to fix things, at least though revolution or war.
I am European and live in Europe. Your characterisation of Europe as a sea of hate for the USA is very wrong.
Pfff. Oh, yeah? When's the last time the people of Europe stood up and said, "We like you, America! Thanks for all the free security you provide because we are too weak and useless to provide it ourselves!" Yeah, never. When's the last time the people of Europe stood up and angrily demanded Americans get the fuck out and called them baby-murdering warmongers for actually building an army? Last week? Every US mililtary base in Europe is spraypainted with "AMI GO HOME" and European attitudes towards America are hugely negative. You don't view your friends as your greatest threat.
Americans are tired of wasting money on the likes of NATO, bases in Germany, etc. A complete waste of money that we canâ(TM)t afford, and which serves no purpose. If Russia wants to annex the Ukraine I donâ(TM)t care at all, not even a tiny bit.
The EU also has massive, massive problems, unelected, unresponsive bureaucrats who view their jobs as an all expense paid vacation, flooding the continent with third world migrants, etc.
European welfare state model is also probably unsustainable, particularly w/o the hapless US taxpayers funding their defense.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!