Slashdot Mirror
Reddit Audiophiles Test HomePod, Say It Sounds Better Than $1,000 Speaker (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Apple released its much-hyped HomePod speaker to the masses last week, and the general consensus among early reviews is that it sounds superb for a relatively small device. But most of those reviews seem to have avoided making precise measurements of the HomePod's audio output, instead relying on personal experience to give generalized impressions. That's not a total disaster: a general rule for speaker testing is that while it's good to stamp out any outside factor that may cause a skewed result, making definitive, "objective" claims is difficult. But having some proper measurements is important. Reddit user WinterCharm, whose real name is Fouzan Alam, has made just that in a truly massive review for the site's "r/audiophile" sub. And if his results are to be believed, those early reviews may be underselling the HomePod's sonic abilities. After a series of tests with a calibrated microphone in an untreated room, Alam found the HomePod to sound better than the KEF X300A, a generally well-regarded bookshelf speaker that retails for $999. What's more, Alam's measurements found the HomePod to provide a "near-perfectly flat frequency response," meaning it stays accurate to a given track without pushing the treble, mids, or bass to an unnatural degree. He concludes that the digital signal processing tech the HomePod uses to "self-calibrate" its sound to its surroundings allows it to impress at all volumes and in tricky environments. "The HomePod is 100% an audiophile grade speaker," he writes.
...still needs more cowbell.
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
Of course some people are saying it's better than everything else, it's got an Apple logo on it.
Not saying they're right, but this should not be unexpected.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
And yet it can't even play Spotify using voice control A major fail. The walled garden works as long as the services you are tied to are actually competitive with the alternatives. Apple Music sucks in terms of compatibility. I want a service I can use to play music anywhere
I"d like a really good sounding BT set up for my office, but I have no need nor want to bug my surroundings with an always on listening device talking to the internet.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Imagine how much better it would sounds with a $485 wooden knob
Of course there was that time when a bunch of audiophiles couldn't distinguish the difference between the results when using Monster Cables vs coat hangers...
The price of a speaker and a bunch of so-called-audiohpihles endorsing it doesn't mean much.
...and it involves actual tests? I'm pretty shocked.
Also this homepot certainly is quite mono, ..?
So is it actually measured as neutral, or is it applying DSP tricks to *sound* neutral given the environment? The summary seems to indicate both, but these are mutually exclusive goals. Interestingly enough, most people aren't used to hearing neutral sound and react poorly upon hearing it for the first time. It'll be interesting how this is received.
If there is anyone I trust, it is audiophiles from the Internet. They are the ones that prompted me to buy the $10,000 gold plated cables to hook my gear together. My music has never sounded better!
THD in the lower frequencies (below ~75 Hz) is between 18% and 56%, per his own graphs. I guess that is audiophile?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The Apple HomePod sounds good, but other smart speakers sound better.
#DeleteFacebook
Too bad all of your losses audio is trapped in music libraries that you are not allowed to connect to homepod. -- "You may want to use iTunes Match or iCloud Music Library to keep your iTunes library in the cloud. If your iTunes library contains lossless files, iTunes Match and iCloud Music Library treat them differently from other files. If the files are matched, then they’re matched to the iTunes Store equivalents: files at 256kbps AAC. If iTunes can’t match them and needs to upload them, iTunes converts them to 256kbps before uploading. This means that your lossless files will never be in the cloud." - Macworld
I don't trust slashdot anymore.
Hey APPLE! Where's the support for 24-bit audio?
Life is not for the lazy.
To be accurate, they compared the HomePod to a $999 speaker. That extra dollar might make all the difference.
Have gnu, will travel.
I used to be a sound tech. I've tested more speakers than I care to count, and set up enough audio rigs that I can typically pinpoint sound quality problems in a few seconds with the right test clips.
Pro tip: It's almost never the speakers' problem.
I know it annoys the "audiophile" crowd, but a speaker is, for the most part, just a speaker. The response curve doesn't matter much, if you can equalize it to suit your taste. Yes, I said that evil nasty word: taste. No, you're not usually going to get objective measurements of a "good" or "bad" speaker that are worth anything*, because listening to sound, especially music, is a heavily subjective experience.
If I'm setting up a sound system for a classical piano concert, the whole system is configured for that goal... There is still reinforcement, but it's only to boost what's naturally echoed by the room, not to push anything unnaturally. For a rock concert, I usually arrange the sound differently, boosting instruments to match the band's desired sound profile. Generally, my best advice is to figure out what kind of mood the music is supposed to inspire, and adjust to fit that.
If the HomePod includes an automatic equalizer, that's great, but I'd just as soon spend 15 minutes doing proper configuration on my own. Frankly, a flat response sounds boring. I prefer a thumping (but not rumbling) bass, with clear vocals. In other words, I like a fairly deep low-end disco scoop. Is the HomePod for me? Eh, perhaps not, unless I can tweak it or pull the output to my own system. After all, I'm the one listening to the music, so I should enjoy it, no?
* There are actually bad systems out there, but (barring mechanical failure) they're usually because somebody put too much work into fine-tuning to meet a particular response curve spec, rather than making things that sound good. Such systems can be identified (and rejected) in about 30 seconds by playing the Star Wars main theme.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
I'm an Apple house, we have it all, but I've had Sonos Play 5 for a couple of years.
We got the HomePod and I did a side-by-side comparison by playing 'Such Great Heights' from the Sonos and from the HomePod. This song has been a good test for me because there are well-defined trebles and bass notes with a tenor/alto vocal that sounds clean. Both units were tuned to the room using their tuning algorithms.
To be completely honest, based on my hearing (and I'm older than 45, younger than 50), the Sonos has a little bit more depth in the mid-range and bass. But it's close. The HomePod does well with hearing 'Hey Siri' even when the music is on, and so far it seems like Siri works better than it has in the past (we don't push it though). Sonos is also a little louder.
Both have high quality sound, I haven't plugged my Vienna Acoustic Grand Beethoven's into my receiver for three years because they have been good enough for my needs.
"Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
It uses gold coated platinum antenna on the wifi. The spokesman said, "It is a myth to say signal quality does not matter for digital transmission. The new Monster Cable Wi-Fi router will broadcast perfectly circular zeros and the perfectly straight ones. All audiophiles will appreciate the difference in the sound quality".
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
The perfect trifecta of absolutely cringeworthy bullshit.
The $999 price is for a *pair* of speakers, so you can listen in stereo.
This Apple thing costs $349 for a single speaker. So unless you listen exclusively to pre-1965 monophonic classics, it will sound significantly less good than any decent pair of stereo speakers.
This guy doesn't know how to interpret or display measurements.
Someone took his measurements and posted a graph displayed properly. This speaker is bad.
https://i.imgur.com/hWRCOUnr.png
Who told you it was computed locally?
I'm sure it is quite possible to do some ABX testing on this speaker vs some others and arrange them into an order that represents their comparative quality without people's bias / imagination creeping into reviews.
That's the same thing that Amazon and Google say, and they're hated around here because of it. But I guess it's because this is Apple, we're all good?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Hmm....well, if it does sound that good, AND...if Apple gives me a way to disable the Siri "always listening" parts, I might consider buying one for my office.
I"d like a really good sounding BT set up for my office, but I have no need nor want to bug my surroundings with an always on listening device talking to the internet.
You can disable Siri on HomePod.
Also, it doesn't really start listening until it hears "Hey, Siri", which it decodes locally.
https://www.imore.com/how-cust...
are those the guys who buy overpriced 50s technology with the illusion that performs better than current technology.
Did they have a cat knock it off a table six or seven times to check the toughness?
If it isn't cat proof it is junk.
The most striking six comments I have read in almsot every review of this device are consistent:
1. It has stereo-like directional sound effects.
2. It sounds good in any room. Somehow it is adpating
3. There is no "sweet" spot but sounds good in most places in the room. This one is very intriguing.
4. It's definition is very good. not mushy sounding like typical devices.
5. remarkable base that doesn't turn to buzzing when cranked to max volume
6. the ability to command siri is not affected by how loud the sound is, and works at great ranges.
It "sounds" like this is a sonic engineering masterpiece.
By the way, bose also does sonic engineering to make inexpensive parts sound great. I would think that computer people would actually appreciate this since it's effectively what microchips did-- replace expensive bespoke electronics with universal cheap electronics via free-to-replicate software engineering.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
We live underground. We talk with our hands. We wear the earplugs all of our lives. Do not use the HomePod.
OMG!!! Ponies!!!
"Sorry, I wasn't able to find sod around the woods for pounding sneakers. Here are some web results though."
The GP was talking about EarPods, not AirPods:
EarPods - $29
AirPods - $179
They're confusingly, similarly-named, so the misunderstanding is not in the least bit surprising. I even swapped the names at one point as I was typing up this post.
PROVE it sends constant audio to Apple Servers (or to anyone outside your LAN), or STFU.
Why does it have to send "constant" to be a problem?
It certainly captures sound (or it wouldn't react to keywords), and it certainly has the capabilities to connect to the mothership (or it wouldn't be able to look anything up), and whether it combines the two now or not is enough of a potential problem that I won't allow it in my home or my office.
They said that Amazon and Google claim the same, not that Apple's claims were false. I think their point is that regardless of whether it's reporting everything back to Apple or not, some people still hate having microphones listening to everything.
You can disable Siri on HomePod.
Physically, or through a "trust me" software option?
the not "mushy" sound is interesting because one common reason for a device to sound mushy is because the device is non-linear so while it could play any one frequency in a "flat" way, it can't play them all at the same time.
This is almost dictated by the physics. And this is why, in part, why speakers that divide up the base and trebble to different speakers do better.
A related phenomena is the direction of sound. a given speaker may angularly radiate different frequency bands differently. Again giving both mush and imbalance in a room.
the fact the the apple speaker is reported to have clarity, directional sound, and self-equalization based on the room suggests they are actively compensating for the non-linearities.
if so $350 is shocking cheap!
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Didn't he say the same thing about "natural medicine"?
For the past 60 years, the electronics industry has been telling people that stereo sound is the way to go... now Apple is selling a monaural sound system? (Granted, in theory two of them can be used for stereo... if you don't mind paying $800 and seeing them argue over who answers the audio commands)
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Prove that Google and Amazon send constant update to their own servers, or STFU. That's the point - we have their "word" - and that's it.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
After hundreds of years of engineering speakers, why haven't we come up with an almost eprfect speaker?
There seems to have been some progress - those 10$ little chinese bluetooth speakers sound way better than most medium range speakers I heard when I was growing up, IMHO - but how come that there's still innovation happening regarding how you route some air pressure waves through a box?
These are the same people that think an IPHONE is the best phone and will stand in line every time a new model comes out.
PROVE it doesn't.
We'll need full access to read (and decrypt) every packet (and all embedded data) it sends out.
Then, prove it can't.
We'll need the same access as above, then unfettered root and physical access to the device to ensure that its code cannot be changed without our consent, that the device is secure against at least remote hacks, etc.
Here's how these devices can spy on you.
1: Always listen - they already do this to enable detection of the activation word/phrase.
2: Analyze everything said - they already do this to enable detection of the activation word/phrase.
3: Filter what it picks up to eliminate silence, reduce noise, etc. - they already do this to enable detection of the activation word/phrase, reduce power demands, etc.
4: Record everything after filtering and store it. This can be the audio (Opus is quite good even down to 6 kbps), or a text-based version based on the speech it was able to detect.
5: Upload it later, when the device is supposed to be sending data after the activation word/phrase is detected. It's all in an encrypted stream, so the user will never know.
All these devices are literally 2 steps away from 24/7 spying, and that's if you believe that they aren't there already. Further, even if you trust the companies (you fool), they're one national security letter away from remotely updating your device and spying on you for the government.
A true audiophile grade loudspeaker will faithfully reproduce the timbre of acoustic instruments and voices. I'm a stickler for mid-range detail and clarity and that doesn't come easily, and certainly you're not going to get it in a HomePod. Loudspeaker design isn't magic, nor is there anyone at Apple who suddenly knows more than the zillions of audio designers out there. It's just physics and as innovative as Apple may be with software and the user interface, that's not the same thing as physics.
if you want to build a great audiophile loudspeaker in the under $1000 class, build the Linkwitz LXmini system available as a kit from Madisound. No "audiophile" cables needed. This design images and gives a more natural presentation better than most commercial designs costing many times more.
Then you can claim it as a business expense, right?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
But then you are locked into the lightning connector, or you need to carry two headphones wherever you go.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
It's going to be playing back streaming audio?
Seriously? A $1000 pair of decent speakers would utterly destroy this thing. I'd wager a $350 pair would actually.
COMPRESSED streaming audio. Admittedly codecs are getting better but few (if any) do streaming lossless.
Physically - assuming you have an appropriate screwdriver and a pair of wire cutters to cut out the microphone.
Whether it will still work as a speaker or not... No clue
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Google tells you up-front it'll snoop on your free Gmail account e-mails. It also tells you that when you use its free services, it reserves the right to snoop as much as it wants. But for paid services - it does not snoop. Apple says kind of the same things (they will use data they collect for their purposes only - but they will collect data), but at the end of the day, we're simply trusting a 3rd party anyway. So your position is that Apple is trustworthy, and Google is not. Yet it is only held because of faith. Much like religion...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
They said that Amazon and Google claim the same, not that Apple's claims were false. I think their point is that regardless of whether it's reporting everything back to Apple or not, some people still hate having microphones listening to everything.
I get that; and I can't say that I disagree..
And furthermore, I would bet that Amazon and Google NOW decode their Wakeup Phrase locally; bit I also don't think they WOULD have gone to that extra trouble if Apple hadn't essentially shamed them into doing it... Too.
But, the truth of the matter is, we ARE going to have more and more voice-controlled "assistants"; and until they can store their knowldgebase in Isolinear chips, or Interloid Crystals, or Graphaphone Hololoops, these devices are going to have to offload their voice recognition to off-device servers. And therein lies the rub.
I trust Apple in this regard more than the rest for two reasons:
1. Apple does not datamine for marketing purposes. They even killed-off their iAds Program nearly 2 years ago.
2. Apple is smart, and they realize that Concern for User Privacy is a MARKETABLE Feature (and one that those other guy's CAN'T market!), and they also know how tenuous that Trust is; so they don't DARE risk losing that advantage by spreading User-Identifiable-Data around.
Physically - assuming you have an appropriate screwdriver and a pair of wire cutters to cut out the microphone.
Whether it will still work as a speaker or not... No clue
I don't think you are a customer. In fact, if I were you, I'd join an Amish community right now.
Prove that Google and Amazon send constant update to their own servers, or STFU. That's the point - we have their "word" - and that's it.
In fact, I would bet that their more recent designs DON'T send constant audio to the mothership. For one thing it benefits BOTH "parties" to not do Wakeup Phrase processing Remotely, But it took Apple to shame them into actually doing the right thing...
Prove they were doing what you claim earlier or STFU. See how easy that is? You just want to lie and slander, and then crawl away when hammered with real facts that show you are just an Apple shill...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Bah! Pear Anjou cables are the minimum acceptable cables you should be using. Sure, they're about $450/foot but aren't your ears worth it?
(Yes... I'm kidding. But not about that pricing.)
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
PROVE it doesn't.
We'll need full access to read (and decrypt) every packet (and all embedded data) it sends out.
Then, prove it can't.
We'll need the same access as above, then unfettered root and physical access to the device to ensure that its code cannot be changed without our consent, that the device is secure against at least remote hacks, etc.
Here's how these devices can spy on you.
1: Always listen - they already do this to enable detection of the activation word/phrase.
2: Analyze everything said - they already do this to enable detection of the activation word/phrase.
3: Filter what it picks up to eliminate silence, reduce noise, etc. - they already do this to enable detection of the activation word/phrase, reduce power demands, etc.
4: Record everything after filtering and store it. This can be the audio (Opus is quite good even down to 6 kbps), or a text-based version based on the speech it was able to detect.
5: Upload it later, when the device is supposed to be sending data after the activation word/phrase is detected. It's all in an encrypted stream, so the user will never know.
All these devices are literally 2 steps away from 24/7 spying, and that's if you believe that they aren't there already. Further, even if you trust the companies (you fool), they're one national security letter away from remotely updating your device and spying on you for the government.
Like most paranoid delusions, yours requires a few bits of technology that don't exist:
You (conveniently) leave out WHERE all this recording and analysis and other stuff is taking place.
Continuous streaming out of the device, regardless of whether the content can be read, when not "triggered", or after a command was processed, even at a low data rate, would eventually be caught with some enterprising soul with WireShark or WiFi Protocol Analyzer. So there goes your surreptitious always-on monitoring.
And the rest falls right down after that.
As opposed to your baseless support of apple? apple says they are protecting your privacy therefore its true?
Ha ha, I feel like I really need the bad car analogy of this post!
Tell that to the apple users in China. Oh wait... Apple gave control of their servers to midget hitler and removed all VPN and privacy related apps from the app store.
Stereo
I linked the Lightning one because it was the first link in the search results, but they make a standard 3.5mm jack version for the same price as well.
The rest of what you said is apparently in response to something else someone said? I was just pointing out a misunderstanding about product names. I wasn’t trying to make any sort of larger point.
Without AUX or any other input (not even bluetooth), the Homepod can only be used with iPhones or iPads and nothing else.
So three years from now, it will be useless, whereas my stereo speakers will be still useful and used 20 years from now, just like they were 20 years ago when I bought them.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Therefore it is useless. There is good reason why we make A/B test or technical test only : to avoid the visual bias.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Any audio review that doesn't have the words "blind" and "double" in close proximity is just someone defending or attacking something they have an emotional reaction to. I thought we'd worked that out by now.
If he'd just posted the "bias" section and the words "I liked it", it would have had exactly the same useful content for anyone wondering whether to buy the thing.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
of course there's no physical switch.
it's always processing audio trying to listen to that hey siri.
but man.. i would need two of these and build something to stream audio to it.. and at that point - fuck it.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Suppose they provided a physical switch. You would still have to trust them that it did not simply get read through software. You can't open it up and verify that the switch physically disconnects anything. Trust will always be an issue. Period.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
LOL! More blatant BS.
In Apple Russia, speaker listens to YOU!
How do you know your phone or laptop don't send everything they hear to the mothership?
For the laptop, a flush 3.5mm dummy plug in the mic port, which disconnects the internal mic. :)
For the phone, I don't use one
IFix could only verify for the device they disassemble, not the one you have in your hand. The diametric opposition here is that you can't trust any of them, but you have to put your faith somewhere. Arguments about which choice is smarter are foolish.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Who told you it was computed locally?
Put your iPhone in airplane mode. Talk to Siri. Note that no matter what you ask it (even "what time is it") it will respond with "You'll need to connect to the internet first".
I don't think that it's doing much local interpretation.
- Vincit qui patitur.
Apparently I did. I stand corrected. They're $159, not $179.
Not if you possess basic reading comprehension skills, as I did no such thing.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Why would you pay $179 for something that Apple sells for $29?
Because being expensive makes everything better, duh.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
It's the fact that "Hey Siri" is interpreted locally. Compared to Google and Alexa at least, where I believe everything goes to the mothership. I'd have to double check that though.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Your argument is, "If they did that, someone would have seen it and reported it to some forum where you and I would have heard about it."
That's a really stupid argument... I'm always disappointed when I read your posts. Your shilling is so blatantly transparent, and you seem like a decently intelligent person otherwise the rabid defense of everything-apple.
Your argument is, "If they did that, someone would have seen it and reported it to some forum where you and I would have heard about it."
That's a really stupid argument... I'm always disappointed when I read your posts. Your shilling is so blatantly transparent, and you seem like a decently intelligent person otherwise the rabid defense of everything-apple.
I really don't think that is a stupid argument.
With ALL the unmitigated hatred toward all things Apple by many Slashdotters, do you REALLY think someone wouldn't have caught on to that by now?
Think of the (unwarranted) outrage when Apple was transmitting APPROXIMATE locations of cell towers your iPhone happened across, so they could improve cell-switching, and therefore reduce "Dropped Calls" (which they were having trouble with at the time). Remember how much of a LATHER the Apple Haters(tm) on Slashdot and other forums got into "Apple Tracks your every move!" they crowed!
No, sorry. If Siri on iPhones/iPads/iPods/Macs and now HomePod was constantly (or even intermittently "bursting") your every word out the door, SOMEONE would be on their Soapbox by now with "Proof".
You know it and I know it.
And I don't "shill" for Apple. That implies payment, or at least writing posts that I myself really don't believe; but publish because I feel I must be a "toady" for someone/something. I simply attempt to correct falsehoods when I see them.
And I see them a LOT on Slashdot.
Just confirmed a colleague, Siri won't work at all if you have your phone in airplane mode.