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Man, Seeking New Copy of Windows 7 After Forced Windows 10 Upgrade, Sues Microsoft (bleepingcomputer.com)

Posted by msmash on from the not-the-onion dept.

Catalin Cimpanu, writing for BleepingComputer: An Albuquerque man has sued Microsoft and its CEO -- Satya Nadella -- seeking a fresh copy of Windows 7 or $600 million in damages. According to a civil complaint filed last week on February 14, Frank K. Dickman Jr. of Albuquerque, New Mexico, is suing Microsoft because of a botched forced Windows 10 upgrade. "I own a ASUS 54L laptop computer which has an OEM license for Windows Version 7," Dickman's claim reads. "The computer was upgraded to Windows Version 10 and became non-functional immediately. The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7." Dickman says that the laptop's original OEM vendor is "untrustworthy," hence, he cannot obtain a legitimate copy of Windows 7 to downgrade his laptop.

42 of 357 comments (clear)

  1. $600 million by fred6666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    about 0 chances of winning

    1. Re:$600 million by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the second prize is .....

      Oh, you're correct.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:$600 million by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the $600 million is so Microsoft just rolls over and gives him a Windows 7 key. As easy as this would be to defend in court, I have a feeling that the lawyers would love nothing more than to drag it out long enough to bill at least a reasonable fraction of that $600 million for their own efforts.

    3. Re:$600 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4

      This makes no sense. He has a Windows 7 key. It came with the laptop. Download the Win7 iso and re-install. Frivolous lawsuits like this are why we can't have nice things.

    4. Re:$600 million by Calydor · · Score: 5, Informative

      I may be wrong, but I think once you(r computer on its own) upgrade to Win10, your Win7 key is listed on Microsoft's activation servers as no longer valid. Thus you might install Win7, but you can't activate it.

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    5. Re:$600 million by VanGarrett · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OEM Windows keys won't activate a Retail copy of Windows. It'd actually be a hell of a lot easier for him to just use the manufacturer's installer. The OEM version of Windows has a simplified activation procedure, and the last time I had to do an install using it, I didn't even need to type in the key.

      --
      Learning about brewing beer, by brewing beer.
    6. Re:$600 million by Calydor · · Score: 3, Informative

      Microsoft disagrees:

      https://yro.slashdot.org/story...

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    7. Re:$600 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Independent computer stores often have windows disks that will install any retail or OEM version of windows 7, to match the key you have (or found on a junk PC). I've been photographing the key stickers on machines that IT scraps for quite a while.

    8. Re:$600 million by Xenx · · Score: 2

      Except, the reasons behind that are different have nothing to do with what they were talking about.

    9. Re:$600 million by karnal · · Score: 3, Informative

      HP is even more fun with this. they'll let you back up to either a USB stick or a set of CDs ONCE. Then lock you out from ever backing up that partition again.

      There are ways around this, but it's still annoying.

      --
      Karnal
    10. Re:$600 million by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Far more likely fishing for a class action, consider it legal advertising, prior to opening it up. So anyone else want to join in?

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    11. Re:$600 million by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's the thing though, Microsoft gave users plenty of options to not upgrade to the free Windows 10 upgrade. I believe at least a year. PEBKAC.

      Microsoft didn't give users plenty of options to not upgrade to the free Windows 10 upgrade. The options that Microsoft gave, especially towards the end of the pre-release period for Win10, were that could upgrade now or later. I had to use a 3rd party application to keep them from forcibly upgrading an old Win7 box of mine whose hardware wasn't up to running Win10. I hear that towards the end, legal threats and general bad PR got them to make a public show of backing off on the "Do you want to upgrade now or later?" push, but I don't remember hearing any reports that they actually got around to having it so you could refuse the upgrade without deliberately blocking several updates among other measures, because they did things like relabel the relevant updates and those updates had their traditional vague descriptions that gave no indication that they would attempt to forcibly upgrade you.

      The general theory I remember was that M$ was doing all of this to forcibly inflate the numbers early on for Win10...

  2. Sorry, sir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We're fresh out of Windows 7 due to high demand, but we still have lots of copies of Vista hanging around. Would you like one? Two? A baker's dozen?

    Buddy? Pal?

  3. Re: He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? by Order_66 · · Score: 2

    Nadella expected him to pick up the turd by the clean end.

  4. Those numbers are all the same up there by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the article:

    The angry plaintiff wants a judge to force Microsoft to comply with his request in 30 days or pay up $600 million in damagesâ" albeit the judge may interpret the damages as $6 billion due to a redaction error, as the complaint reads "$6,000,000,000.00 (six hundred million dollars)."

    I'd love to know how he came up with either of those numbers as being somehow reasonable. I'm not inclined to defend Microsoft in any situation, but that's a lot of money for a laptop that was bricked by an OS upgrade. There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost). Yeah it's a massive inconvenience but I have never met anyone who uses an ASUS laptop who will do $600,000,000 worth of work in their lifetimes.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Those numbers are all the same up there by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd love to know how he came up with either of those numbers as being somehow reasonable.

      An RIAA lawyer commented to say the math checks out.

    2. Re:Those numbers are all the same up there by nctritech · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The other thing is that some niche software is very expensive and very tightly controlled, requiring the company to remote into the machine to acquire and install it. It may not be a simple matter of backing up, restoring a system image, and installing the software again, and even if it was it's not likely that a normal user can do all of that themselves. If an unwanted forced Win10 installation had a serious process defect that killed a really important laptop in a crucial period leading up to a multi-million-dollar contract, for example, it's not at all unusual to demand damages of this size. People sometimes forget that computers can be used for actual work and that work can have dollar amounts attached that they'll never see in their entire lives.

    3. Re:Those numbers are all the same up there by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

      "There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost)"

      "The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7."

      That is his (previous) operating system. He should not have any of his own personal data in the operating system itself. Yeah, he paid for it and should be able to get it back but it's still just his previous OS. Did he lose his tax information, his email, his contacts, or anything else that was his own? There is no shortage of people selling new licenses for Windows 7 on ebay (and many other places), he can replace it if he wants. Did he have data on there though that he forgot to back up that he can no longer get to?

      Even if the system is completely bricked that doesn't mean that the files on the HD cannot be accessed.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    4. Re:Those numbers are all the same up there by Khyber · · Score: 2

      "That is his (previous) operating system. He should not have any of his own personal data in the operating system itself."

      Well, to add to his story, when Win10 got forced on my system, first it put windows 7 stuff in a Windows.old folder...

      And on the first fucking reboot (installing the actual sound card drivers instead of using Windows drivers,) Win10 upgraded, and deleted everything in that folder during upgrade. And it doesn't tell you that it's doing so.

      And I've been able to get this behavior to repeat multiple times on various clean test systems.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re:Those numbers are all the same up there by Cederic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So.. Lets say some bloke called Bob starts a company.

      He puts $100k of his own money into it, and uses that money to employ people for 10% higher than market rate to create something his new company sells.

      Bob takes no salary, just works 80 hour weeks to assure the success of the company. All the time he's making sure suppliers are paid, customers are happy and the staff are receiving 10% above market rate for their time. 100% of the spare cash is reinvested in the company, so it never makes a profit.

      Eight years later Big Corporation offer to buy Bob's company from him for $610m. Bob is the sole shareholder and decides this is a fair offer.

      You're saying that Bob didn't do enough to warrant $600m? How much was Bob's work worth, and who does the rest of that cash go to?

    6. Re: Those numbers are all the same up there by nctritech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's fine, but Microsoft's forced and/or deceptive auto-"yes" Windows 10 upgrades didn't give people a choice to accept the EULA and install only if they agree. If they didn't want to be liable, they shouldn't have been so hugely aggressive in forcing the upgrade on people.

  5. Hero! by ebonum · · Score: 2

    Frank K. Dickman Jr. Elementary. Has a nice ring to it

  6. Multiple issues here that you see all the time by oldgraybeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All mute now since the system is hosed and he has a dysfunctional Windows 10 install. But for the future.

    1. Make a set of Recovery CD's
    2. Verify you have a good Windows 7 product key on the label stuck to the laptop.
    3. If no label with a product key, checked the Control Panel->System to get it.
    4. Note to everyone who gets a new windows computer. Make Recovery CD's, record your product key, put everything that came with the computer in a box or manila envelope and file it away. You will need it at some point ;)

    You can still get OEM copies of Windows 7 Pro on ebay with product key.

    1. Re:Multiple issues here that you see all the time by apoc.famine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why in the world should have to do all of those things to ensure continuous access to something I legally purchased? If I need more than a license key, there is something majorly wrong with that product.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:Multiple issues here that you see all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sorry the card says MOOPS.

    3. Re:Multiple issues here that you see all the time by nine-times · · Score: 2

      You're safer storing them as ISO files and backing them up than actually writing DVDs.

    4. Re:Multiple issues here that you see all the time by ctilsie242 · · Score: 2

      Best of all is to also Clonezilla image the laptop before ever booting Windows, and save the image, as well as the W7 image media somewhere secure (Amazon Glacier, Wasabi Cloud, Backblaze B2). Make sure the product key or keys are saved with the files as well.

  7. Wait, what? by freeze128 · · Score: 2

    I wonder *WHY* he thinks ASUS is "untrustworthy", and why he cannot get some sort of restore disk from them.

  8. Re:Guy seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And the forced Win 10 upgrade is not a dick move?

  9. Re:Just download it, dummy by richy+freeway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OK, so to reply to myself and completely contradict myself I just tested it with another OEM key and it didn't work... Curious...

  10. Re:He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, you joke, but we haven't bought a new Windows machine since 7 was no longer available, and we're now using non-Windows platforms for our new machines instead of going anywhere near Windows 10. So for us, it literally is the year of Linux on the desktop. Turns out that for development work it's probably better anyway, and for all the online stuff a browser or email client on Linux is kinda like a browser or email client on Windows.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  11. Re:waste by geekmux · · Score: 2

    This awful example of litigious american society is showing a sincere lack of respect for the company of microsoft on the part of the plaintiff. If he cares so little for them so as to sue them, why not just pirate the software?

    Ah, so steal to save time? Gee, there's sound logic for you. I'll remember that when I'm shoplifting. I mean, why waste time at a register. You slowpokes better get out of my way on the freeway too. Speed limits are for time wasters, I'll be doing 130MPH in the time-saving lane.

    Why is everyone so keen on wasting everyone else's time?

    If everyone was actually keen on saving time, the time-warping mind-suck known as social media, wouldn't exist.

  12. Re:Guy seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I didn't think OEM licenses would work.

  13. I found the COA by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    On that model there's a full, unused license COA for Windows 7 under the battery or in the center of the bottom plate. I guess he didn't check.

  14. My experience by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 2

    re-installing Windows 7 using a regular install DVD and an OEM key is that the online validation never works. You have to use the phone validation. It is tedious, but always works.

    1. Re:My experience by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2

      You can skip validation at install time and validate later once Windows is fully installed and booted. It will be able to validate online then.

  15. Re:The Three Rules of Computing by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

    Windows upgrades to 10 without the user's consent or interaction. I had to download a little utility that still sits in my taskbar today that specifically prevented automatic upgrades.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  16. Re:He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? by WallyL · · Score: 2

    Ditto. No Windows 10 in my house. Windows 10 made me a user of Linux on the Desktop.

  17. Re:The Three Rules of Computing by twistedcubic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "No company is going to support the old stuff forever, not even Microsoft, nor should anyone expect them too."

    He's not asking for support. If I sell you a TV and destroy it five years later, can I legitimately say I destroyed it because "I can't support the TV forever".

  18. Re: He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

    Why is Linux only a viable alternative for you, now?

    Short version: Far more important things (for us) are now either online or client-server, and far less important things (for us) rely on native applications that are only available on the Windows platform. For those that remain, we stocked up on Windows 7 machines while we still could.

    Bonus answer: Linux's hardware support and ease of configuration more generally are in a different league today to where they were 10 years ago. For example, we can buy a laptop pre-installed with Linux today and have a reasonable chance that it will work properly both out of the box and throughout its normal working lifetime, with minimal overheads configuring/managing it.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  19. Re: He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

    Instead of being an asshat and asking why someone is late, maybe celebrate they arrived at all.

    You are the reason why people hate linux zealots.

    --
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  20. Re:Guy seems... by Mr0bvious · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think his point is: Don't treat me like a piece of shit and force an update on me that wastes my time, causes me lost productivity and then refuse to correct the issue.

    MS acted in an arrogant manner, his lawsuit is trying to address their respect of care for their users.

    Asking MS to fork out for a new laptop, licence, etc is not going to cause them any grief and is pointless.

    $600 million on the other hand may make them look and listen.

    I don't for a second think he is claiming he suffered $600 million in damages, but he wants the amount to be enough for MS to give a shit.

    --
    Never happened. True story.