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Man, Seeking New Copy of Windows 7 After Forced Windows 10 Upgrade, Sues Microsoft (bleepingcomputer.com)
Catalin Cimpanu, writing for BleepingComputer: An Albuquerque man has sued Microsoft and its CEO -- Satya Nadella -- seeking a fresh copy of Windows 7 or $600 million in damages. According to a civil complaint filed last week on February 14, Frank K. Dickman Jr. of Albuquerque, New Mexico, is suing Microsoft because of a botched forced Windows 10 upgrade. "I own a ASUS 54L laptop computer which has an OEM license for Windows Version 7," Dickman's claim reads. "The computer was upgraded to Windows Version 10 and became non-functional immediately. The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7." Dickman says that the laptop's original OEM vendor is "untrustworthy," hence, he cannot obtain a legitimate copy of Windows 7 to downgrade his laptop.
about 0 chances of winning
I'm, split on this. Sure, it's a hugely dick move by Microsoft, but all users know they are opting into an unusually weird set of nasty dick moves, whenever they buy anything that has Microsoft software. There's normal, and then there's Microsoft. This is complaining that shit tastes like .. well, shit. If you didn't want the taste of shit, why did you go to the extra effort to make sure you obtained shit-flavored shit?
We're fresh out of Windows 7 due to high demand, but we still have lots of copies of Vista hanging around. Would you like one? Two? A baker's dozen?
Buddy? Pal?
The angry plaintiff wants a judge to force Microsoft to comply with his request in 30 days or pay up $600 million in damagesâ" albeit the judge may interpret the damages as $6 billion due to a redaction error, as the complaint reads "$6,000,000,000.00 (six hundred million dollars)."
I'd love to know how he came up with either of those numbers as being somehow reasonable. I'm not inclined to defend Microsoft in any situation, but that's a lot of money for a laptop that was bricked by an OS upgrade. There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost). Yeah it's a massive inconvenience but I have never met anyone who uses an ASUS laptop who will do $600,000,000 worth of work in their lifetimes.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Guy will be given a new laptop with Win 7, lawyers will make millions.
And if, indeed, the untrustworthy party is Asus, how can he trust their hardware?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
It puts Microsoft off implementing my MS Insecticide idea.
This is why we need Tort Reform - it would allow megacorps to play amusing practical jokes on people who pirate their stuff and if someone of those people are humiliated or indeed killed, there'd be no lawsuit.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Frank K. Dickman Jr. Elementary. Has a nice ring to it
All mute now since the system is hosed and he has a dysfunctional Windows 10 install. But for the future.
;)
1. Make a set of Recovery CD's
2. Verify you have a good Windows 7 product key on the label stuck to the laptop.
3. If no label with a product key, checked the Control Panel->System to get it.
4. Note to everyone who gets a new windows computer. Make Recovery CD's, record your product key, put everything that came with the computer in a box or manila envelope and file it away. You will need it at some point
You can still get OEM copies of Windows 7 Pro on ebay with product key.
He almost has a point until he says the OEM was "untrustworthy" if that's the case does that mean he reformatted the PC instantly when he got it and if so what OS did he use?
As much as I'm not a fan of OEM installs ASUS will let you make recovery media or order it if you prefer, that's totally his bad, not Microsoft or Asus.
Just came here to post this... Tested it with the OEM key from the bottom of a customers Asus laptop first, worked fine.
I wonder *WHY* he thinks ASUS is "untrustworthy", and why he cannot get some sort of restore disk from them.
for the little guy to have a chance, he HAS to do something outrageous; something that might recruit public opinion to work for him; he can't compete with MS's sheer size and resources; how effective would a small claims approach be?
does anyone think MS won't use everything they have to their own advantage?
when you go up against Goliath and you're small, do you don armor and shield and hope it all works out? or maybe try a tactic that increases your chance for success?
standing up for himself, I admire that
Except that if you type an OEM key in they tell you to contact the OEM. Or at least this was the issue that we ran into on a Dell Windows 7 laptop a year or two ago.
(They had never made the recovery disc and the machine had a problem. Got working enough to run again, but the recovery software had issues and would not burn the recovery disc.) (Ended up being able to get it to Windows 10, and later on was able to do a full wipe/reinstall of Windows 10)
I love the way he says "the original OEM vendor is untrustworthy"... Umm.. Does he think that.. magically.. MS *is* trustworthy???? Geez I HOPE not.. MS deserves to get its collective ass kicked HARD for the nasty malware-style way it forced 10 onto systems, BUT this guy will NEVER get anywhere close to the figure he asks for... He's gonna be lucky to get a copy of Win7 out of the suit...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
If this laptop was worth anywhere near that amount, he should surely have a full disk backup running every hour. Just spin up a virtual machine of the laptop from the backup image, should take about 10 minutes. He can work off the VM from any computer with an RDP client to get him through the day. Then restore the backup to the laptop, should take a few hours depending on size and speed.
Based on these numbers, I think I may be owed $1.3 trillion for Windows Vista.
That site does not work with OEM keys. Only retail. It will say "contact your manufacturer for OS media"
And the forced Win 10 upgrade is not a dick move?
Yes, it does. I tested it before posting my reply.
You're missing the point, we finally found the guy who has 10 years experience in the language that was just released last year.
OK, so to reply to myself and completely contradict myself I just tested it with another OEM key and it didn't work... Curious...
This awful example of litigious american society is showing a sincere lack of respect for the company of microsoft on the part of the plaintiff. If he cares so little for them so as to sue them, why not just pirate the software?
Ah, so steal to save time? Gee, there's sound logic for you. I'll remember that when I'm shoplifting. I mean, why waste time at a register. You slowpokes better get out of my way on the freeway too. Speed limits are for time wasters, I'll be doing 130MPH in the time-saving lane.
Why is everyone so keen on wasting everyone else's time?
If everyone was actually keen on saving time, the time-warping mind-suck known as social media, wouldn't exist.
I didn't think OEM licenses would work.
Rule 1: Backup
Rule 2: BACKUP
Rule 3: See Rules 1 & 2
So, when did your data become important to you, before or after you lost it?
If he had anything important and didn't have it backed up, he's an idiot.
There's no way his damages come anywhere near $600 million, unless he's utterly incompetent, in which case, he deserves to lose it.
The unreliability of his OEM isn't Microsofts fault.
Most computer OEMs don't provide disks for you for the installed software. Instead they use a legal loophole and when you first run the computer it prompts you to make a set of backup/restore disks. Those will essentially be an image of the drive and can be used to restore the computer if you have to nuke & pave. Guess he neglected to do that, or lost his disks. Whichever case is correct, it's still his fault, and not that of Microsoft or the OEM.
It's not like the increasing persistence about upgrading people wasn't known, and if he still didn't have a backup, he's an incompetent idiot.
Yes, Microsoft shouldn't be forcing people to upgrade, but that's a different lawsuit, and I believe it's a class action as well. (It is.)
The laptop is now "non-functional". How about letting a real tech see about that. You never know, I've "fixed" machines by booting into safemode and disabling the old dos crap they had been forcing to run for ages.
No company is going to support the old stuff forever, not even Microsoft, nor should anyone expect them too. Windows 7 mainstream support ended a couple of years ago, and when it comes to software, life cycles are fast and short compared to other things in the world. The saying is that software ages 10 times faster than the rest of the world.
It's still possible to buy Windows 7. Suing Microsoft for a copy is stupid. It would be cheaper for him to go buy a new copy than to file the lawsuit. It would also seem to be cheaper for Microsoft to capitulate and just send him one, but that would potentially set a bad precedent that could get really expensive and embarrassing for them, so there's no way in hell they'll do that.
That guy is an idiot as he doesn't know the difference between "$6,000,000,000.00" and "six hundred million dollars". Sure, you could claim it's a simple typo, but it's got the correct comma separations for six billion, and if you don't correct mistakes like that before sending it to a judge, you can expect to get slapped down by the judge and forced to either go away, or start over from scratch without the screwups.
We all hate it when our computers go chips up, but it happens, and we have to be prepared for it or it's our fault, like it or not.
Aside from the absurdity of his claim, he could just get a Windows 7 ISO from here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-g...
Suem both!
Table-ized A.I.
On that model there's a full, unused license COA for Windows 7 under the battery or in the center of the bottom plate. I guess he didn't check.
re-installing Windows 7 using a regular install DVD and an OEM key is that the online validation never works. You have to use the phone validation. It is tedious, but always works.
Why didn't he create a DVD or USB of the Factory Reset when the system was brand new?
The laptop prompted him to do so, the user manual told him to do so...
Free
Of course, no one ever does. And then whines when the drive dies, taking the reset partition and OS with it.
Don't see why this is worthy to be posted here.
Using these numbers, I estimate I am owed $1.3 trillion for Windows Vista.
The installer keeps the old Windows 7 install backed up locally so it can be restored if there's a problem with the upgrade. AFAIK there are only a few cases where it is removed::
1. You run Disk Cleanup inside of the upgraded Windows and remove the data.
2.. After some period of time the backup is removed as it is presumed the upgrade is working for the you, as you have not tried to restore the backup but have been using the upgraded PC.
3. You reinstall Windows 10, whereupon it, again, backs up your current Windows install to the backup folder, blowing away whatever is already there (found this out myself). I know this applies to Windows 10 major updates to Windows 10, I assume it also applies to upgrading from Windows 7 but I am not 100% sure.
In the first two cases, your Windows MUST be functional in order for those deletions to occur in the first place. In the latter, you're now taking technical steps to resolve your problem outside of what Microsoft would recommend you do (restore from the backup it made) and while I suppose there's some wiggle room as the replacement of the backup might be unexpected if you don't think it through, I think it's reasonable to say you've got to take some responsibility for monkeying with things trying to fix it but making it worse.
That's because there are several different levels of OEM key that Microsoft sells, but you can pretty much group them into Volume and Non-Volume.
Volume level keys will work. Non-volume keys will not.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
maybe keys from different countries? I think in germany there is a law, stating that OEM versions can be resold, and thus have to be handled like full version keys.
"we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
Hopefully, they are busy figuring out Linux Mint.
"we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
Nice try, but the upgrade does not delete the Windows 7 installation.
Kriston
I'm guessing you hadn't yet had your morning coffee when you read GP and posted that? Let me quote for you the post you replied to:
--
Damages in U.S. civil suits are broken down into two parts:
Compensatory - to compensate the victim for financial losses suffered.
Punitive - to discourage the perpetrator from engaging in improper or illegal activities in the future.
--
"The award that the plaintiff seeks should have some sort of reflection on the actual damages." - that's the first half. If someone causes damage, they need to compensate the person who suffered the damage. If someone dents your car, they need to pay to have it fixed (via insurance, typically).
If someone *intentionally* does an unlawful act, *knowing* that it will likely cause damage, punishment is often in order. If someone takes a sledgehammer to your car on purpose, having them pay to have it fixed may not be quite enough.
> What if the product had been BeOS? ... Those companies are much smaller (or extinct).
If the owner of BeOS (Access Co.) intentionally broke the law and caused damage to your system, they could be punished harshly with a $1 million award. That would be roughly equal to their profit last year. $1 million wouldn't punish Microsoft.
Dude's clearly a screwball, but Windows 7 was around ten years ago. Just sayin'.
He probably just upgraded to Windows 7 from XP a couple of years prior....
Mod parent up !!!
I wish the U.S. had a functional government. Microsoft is EXTRAORDINARILY ABUSIVE, in my opinion, and nothing has been done to stop the abuse.
People have voted for Microsoft with their wallets. Caveat emptor.
its easy enough to look online for a install disk that has no cracks installed then use your key that printed on the machine or embedded in efi. its not Microsoft issue that you can't figure this out.
1. Download the Windows 7 ISO (https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows7)
2. Install using the license key that's on the sticker on the bottom of your system.
3. Profit!
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
" get people to take up that offer to buy the latest Microsoft OS."
The problem is that MS doesn't really want to sell their software. What they want to sell is user metrics and their software as a service. Their real money made is enterprise service contracts, they're moving home users to the model (and most don't even realize it).
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Ah, so steal to save time? Gee, there's sound logic for you. I'll remember that when I'm shoplifting. I mean, why waste time at a register. You slowpokes better get out of my way on the freeway too. Speed limits are for time wasters, I'll be doing 130MPH in the time-saving lane.
Not what I'm saying, but if you wanna go there, there's some real world consequences waiting for you doing those dangerous things. This guy owns a license to the software he wants, having a little anarchic reading of the sales agreement, a workaround to arbitrary capitalism if you will, could be useful, especially when cost to duplicate is essentially nil thus relative currency value being nil, i.e. no robbery taking place. Would you interpret making your own clothes as stealing from clothing companies? Or growing vegetables as stealing from the grocery? Ignoring the speed limit is certainly stealing from your fellow travelers, affecting everyone you pass who has to either now gawk at or swerve to avoid you. Duplicating deprecated software is like a xerox machine with no paper.
Why is everyone so keen on wasting everyone else's time?
If everyone was actually keen on saving time, the time-warping mind-suck known as social media, wouldn't exist.
This seems to be what you're stuck on, and I agree with your sentiment. I was merely commenting on how boring the article was and that the boringness is now reaching out and affecting people unnecessarily. I'm saying this guy is a dick, so much so that his dickishness has been extended to the realm of the headline when it should have been confined to his general space. What's there to learn from the article other than some guy is being a dick to microsoft? Anyone who cares already knew microsoft update to windows 10 had its consequences - and they should pay for their mistakes - but what's one guy's vendetta going to do for the millions of affected grammas who suddenly had to call their grandkids and ask them who the fuck is cortana?
Verizon pushes OTA Android update to Samsung Galaxy owners. Man decides new update makes phone too slow. Sues Google for $600 million or bone stock Android ROM? Justifies law suit because he does not trust Samsung and therefore the problem is with Google?
How does nonsense like this even gain traction in the first place?
and yet he trusts his 600 million business to an untrustworthy laptop vendor with no backup or management of the device.
When you don't know anything about a topic, why bother making stuff up, imagining what you think might be true, and posting it?
- TXO Production Corp. v. Alliance Resources Corp -
SCOTUS affirmed an award of $10 million in punitive damages. The compensatory damages were $19,000.
- Phillip Morris USA vs Williams -
$821,485.50 in compensatory damages and $79.5 million in punitive damages.
-- Federal jury instructions, telling the jury how to decide on the amount of punitive damages --
In considering the amount of any punitive damages, consider the degree of reprehensibility of the defendantâ(TM)s conduct [, including whether the conduct that harmed the plaintiff was particularly reprehensible because it also caused actual harm or posed a substantial risk of harm to people who are not parties to this case.
Certain narrowly defined cases have limits. For example, Year 2000 bug actions against *individuals* (not corporations) are limited to treble damages. (15 U.S. Code  6604)
In most states, punitive damages are a common law matter, controlled by precedent court cases (not statues passed by the legistlature.) SCOTUS has ruled that ridiculously high damages can violate the 14th amendment, while refusing to define what "too high" is across the board. They've indicated that in *most cases*, punitive damages more than ten times the amount of compensatory damages would raise 14th amendment issues.
A *minority* of states cap punitive damages by statute. Texas, for example, uses a formula of economic and non-economic compensatory damages which results in a punitive max of three times the compensatory. Most states, however, do not.
Not only that, after a period of time after upgrading to Windows 10 they invalidate your Windows 7 key.
It's the failed Windows 10 upgrade that is the dick move.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I think his point is: Don't treat me like a piece of shit and force an update on me that wastes my time, causes me lost productivity and then refuse to correct the issue.
MS acted in an arrogant manner, his lawsuit is trying to address their respect of care for their users.
Asking MS to fork out for a new laptop, licence, etc is not going to cause them any grief and is pointless.
$600 million on the other hand may make them look and listen.
I don't for a second think he is claiming he suffered $600 million in damages, but he wants the amount to be enough for MS to give a shit.
Never happened. True story.
It's very doubtful MS upgraded his computer without notifying him, it's highly likely he ignored MS warnings.
I also find it hard to believe his laptop was "bricked" - MS is usually pretty good about checking drivers before updating/upgrading.
That last...Microsoft may have been pretty good about checking drivers before updating/upgrading, but it's been a while since that was reliably the case. A lot of why people were not eager to update Windows and they felt the need to move to having Win10 not give you much choice is because systems were getting fucked by suddenly having drivers not work, which left people feeling rather understandably burned by the whole thing.
......here is a page full of links from Newegg to buy copies of Windows 7 from OEM version to full. https://www.newegg.com/Product...
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
Based on your last sentence, it's sounds like you could have started your response with that, so that your attack on him doesn't sort of finish with basically saying, "you'd be right in Texas, but not everywhere else". The person seems to have some idea, just not informed outside of Texas. I don't care enough to find out where this was filed, but seems like it should matter to your discussion when you're correcting someone that may be right.
The first words of TFS are "An Albuquerque man has sued Microsoft and its CEO -- Satya Nadella -- seeking a fresh copy of Windows 7 or $600 million in damages". So clearly not Texas.
In fact this is a federal suit (interstate commerce), so federal rules apply and I quoted the federal jury instruction for him.
On first start of Win10 after 'upgrade', rename Windows.old to Windows.bak. Months later if you're happy (most of my cousins are, and they give me fewer problems once they're on properly-deloused Win10), delete that big folder to save space.
If you are asking for â600 million, then the judge takes that number and calculates the fees for the court and for each side's lawyer. Let's say one percent each. So this costs you â6 million for the court, and for each set of lawyers.
The cost is paid by the loser. If you were awarded â12 million, that would be two percent of what you asked for, so you pay 98% of the total cost and end up with 6 million debt.
On the other hand, this also can force defendants to offer payment. If you sue me for $10,000 and I think I owe you $8,000 then I can offer $0 and will probably pay 80% of the cost for a $10,000 case. Or I could offer to pay $8,000 and will pay a much lower percentage of the cost of a $2,000 case; if I offer $8,000 and the judge says $8,000 then I won the case and pay no cost.
My dad had a system downgrade to Windows 10 on him. He didn't want it to. I didn't know until it was too late to go back. He had a nice flatbed scanner that would not work with Win10, as there are no new drivers for it.
I'm not your buddy, guy!