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Meet the Interstitium, the Largest Organ We Never Knew We Had (thedailybeast.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Daily Beast: A study published in Scientific Reports on Tuesday suggests that a previously unknown organ has been found in the human body. More astonishingly, the paper puts forth the idea that this new organ is the largest by volume among all 80 organs -- if what the researchers found is, in fact, an organ. The new organ, [pathologist Neil Theise] explained, was a thin layer of dense connective tissue throughout the body, sandwiched just under our skin and within the middle layer of every visceral organ. The organ also made up all the fascia, or the thin mesh of tissue separating every muscle and all the tissue around every vein and artery, from largest to smallest. What initially seemed to be a solid, dense, connective tissue layer was actually a complex network of fluid-filled cavities that are strong and flexible, yet so tiny and undiscerning that they escaped the attention of the brightest scientific minds for generations. In fact, Theise expanded, this "interstitium" could explain many of modern medicine's mysteries, often dismissed by the establishment as either silly or explainable by other phenomena. Take acupuncture, Theise said -- that energetic healing jolt may be traced to the interstitium. Or perhaps the interstitium acted as a "shock absorber," something that protected other organs and muscles in daily function. Also, the space is in direct communication with the lymphatic system as the origin of lymph fluid -- which means the interstitium's system of fluid-filled backroads could explain the metastasis of cancer cells and their quick spread beyond the limits of the organ in which the cancer started.
I was going to say "hands", you bigly loser! #SoSad
Table-ized A.I.
What initially seemed to be a solid, dense, connective tissue layer was actually a complex network of fluid-filled cavities that are strong and flexible
I propose:
The interstitium is the body's internet.
After all, it's a very small layer of tubes that transmits through the entire body...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Interstitium would help to explain the value of walking, shifting around the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., providing background circulation of fluids. It would help to explain why people find comfort in a peace amble, especially those suffering from mental conditions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... could be a form of internalised therapy, to make up for stress affecting other fluid flows. Got nothing better to do, walk around you home to keep circulation going, whilst waiting for water to boil for a cuppa, or while roasting a steak, just a peaceful amble about to home to stimulate Interstitium fluid flows, the expansive and contracts of major muscle groups would certainly move that fluid around the body.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I remember reading about this on /. about a decade ago.
Now that this structure of what appears to be the container for the extracellular fluid and a major shock absorber for tissues has been identified, it will be interesting to see what disease processes might be the result of degradation of its function.
I'd expect examination of breakdowns in this system to result in the causes of several diseases, currently dismissed as psychosomatic or as real but mysteries, to be identified.
I'd also expect that the structure might degrade in old age, and that this might be another source of age-related problems.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I grew up on those "I am Joe's ..." articles as featured in Readers Digest. :)
So weâ(TM)re basically little air bags all surrounded by bubble wrap. Once we become a space faring civilizations, aliens will find us, cut us open, and wonder why someone shipped empty parcels all over the universe.
Everyone who practices Chi Gong or other internal arts knows that ... since millennia.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
In any case it's complete bollocks, the Boardwalk Hall Auditorium Organ is the largest organ. Everyone knows that.
Well, everyone should know it.
You know what they call traditional medicines that work? Medicine. Acupuncture has not been demonstrated to work on any large scale n>100 for any specified disease. It does, however, work demonstrated wonders on psychosomatic illnesseses.
Nerds, please explain how that is an organ.
how does this relate to and compare with cars?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Why don't you show us a random controlled trial that demonstrates that true acupuncture is actually working better than placebo acupuncture where you stick the needles in random places ?
Your doctor doesn't want you to know about it.
there is no "healing jolt" (shame acupuncture works as well as acupuncture - both can be explained with placebo and similar effects - there is demonstrably no healing compared to control group, just in some cases lesser perception of pain).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17893311/?i=3&from=/11783809/related
Sample size over a fucking thousand, done 11 years ago you lazy fuck that couldn't spend even four seconds performing a basic search.
Spent too much time posting links to legit scientific papers on possible effects of acupuncture here in the past
Really? If you logged in, I might be able to verify that, otherwise it's just you saying so.
I finally realized that many of the authors had gasp Chinese names and that's gonna be a deal breaker when the 'merican "engineers" here start shrieking DOUBLE BLIND TEST
Thinly veiled implication that a request for a study that meets the standards of other forms of medicine is based on some kind of racism.
google acupuncture nitric oxide
How about you make a point and then provide proof or links to back it up. What you've delivered so far is a complain that you've provided information in the past but that it's been ignored or denied because of racism. I'm prepared to accept that this might be the case, but the burden of proof is on you. And on acupuncture.
What exactly are you claiming acupuncture can do? What are the studies or trials that you think support this?
It may very well be that we agree (AFAIK acupuncture has been shown to be effective in treating some forms of chronic pain through endorphin release) but I don't know because all you've done is complain that no-one believes you and that American engineers are racist.
If this is the standard of 'proof' that you consider sufficient to support your 'argument', then your claims that there are 'legit' papers is suspect.
Yup. Pity it has nothing to do with 'nitric oxide' which was what the GP (you?) told people to look for.
Did you read the result? No difference between acupuncture and sham where here the sham was just needling anywhere that wasn't an 'acupuncture point'.
So the study shows that needling people works. Other studies that have tested with endorphin inhibitors have shown a reduced effect, so the primary mechanism for the analgesic effect of acupuncture is likely to be the release of same.
Needling anywhere reduces pain. No meridians. No acupuncture points. No effect on anything other than some forms of chronic pain.
I've acknowledge in another post that I'm aware of the studies that have shown that needling has an effect on some chronic pain. I've still got no idea what you think except that people don't believe you 'because racism'.
Seems like an early April Fools Day post to me. You could just about replace Interstitium with The Force or Medichlorians and it all makes sense.
Who marked this insightful?
The link is to a study that compared acupuncture to sham acupuncture (needling anywhere) to conventional therapy and found that both acupuncture and sham acupuncture had the same effect.
The GP specifically asked for evidence that acupuncture works better than random needling.
Were you too busy seeing what you wanted to see to actually read either the GP or the link you think disproves them?
Needling has been shown to help some chronic pain, most probably through release of endorphins and similar. That's a far cry from acupuncture's claims of meridians or acupuncture points and acupuncture's claims to be able to treat a range of other ailments.
I work on people with disorders of this type all the time.
It can cause intense migraines, unexplained pain & weakness, it can put hundreds of pound of pressure on bones and underlying tissue and yet it responds to gentle pressure over time much better than strong pressure. It behaves bit like oobleck in that regard.
I just think of it as fascia mainly but I think of fascia different than most other people. Sort of like the Eskimos and snow.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Is this what the eastern medical traditions call chi?
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
Needling has been shown to help some chronic pain, most probably through release of endorphins and similar.
Isn't this the point though? Medicine is all about curing and treating medical conditions. Whether or not it is wrapped up in some pseudo-scientific BS if the process actually works and relieves a medical condition without causing harm then surely it is good medicine even though it may be appalling science.
From the linked article:
"RESULTS: At 6 months, response rate was 47.6% in the verum acupuncture group, 44.2% in the sham acupuncture group, and 27.4% in the conventional therapy group. Differences among groups were as follows: verum vs sham, 3.4% (95% confidence interval, -3.7% to 10.3%; P = .39)"
pretty weak tea. And that's a single study. Given publication bias and a single study I'm less than convinced (though conceivable: please provide better evidence)
Either when Emacs won Best Editor award, or when Duke Nukem revision finally came out.
Table-ized A.I.
Because I'm pretty sure that you don't read mandarin. 90% of the literature over the last 3000 years is unfortunately not english or available as translation. And I have not the time to search for you english literature.
If you were actually interested in that topic you had informed yourself long ago.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Acupuncture is not based on 'points' on meridians. That is only a training and memorization tool. (Invented by a frensh doctor 200 years ago) Points and meridians are related or overlapping, but different concepts.
The areas are most often as big as the size of the palm of patient.
Also there are plenty of 'points' that have the same effect.
If layman do a 'double blind' study it is most likely that both needles are at the wrong point :)
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
If you have disproven acupuncture, I would like to have some links, idiot.
It's not been disproven, it's just never been proven.
Until you prove it works, it is, by default, unproven.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Didn't know that. But I have to say that's one helluva big organ.....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Common definitions of an organ, Webster:
> a. differentiated structure (such as a heart, kidney, leaf, or stem) consisting of cells and tissues and performing some specific function in an organism.
> b. bodily parts performing a function or cooperating in an activity the eyes and related structures that make up the visual organs.
Wikipedia:
> Organs are collections of tissues with a similar function.
Britannica:
> a group of tissues in a living organism that have been adapted to perform a specific function.
Oxford:
> part of an organism which is typically self-contained and has a specific vital function.
These newly discovered channels, do not seem to consist of either cells or tissues and does not appear to be self-contained. I just feel like the authors thought, "if we say it might be a new organ we'll get bigger headlines."
Can you really just rename the lymphatic system, declare it is a new organ, associate it with woo and pat yourself on the back? In that case, I've discovered a new organ I'd like to call the sanguitium... it explains the mysterious medical benefit of bloodletting and balancing the humors.
90% of the literature over the last 3000 years is unfortunately not english or available as translation.
Nearly 100% of literature on Atlantis over the last thousands of years isn't in English either.
Same goes for various gods, angels, witches, wizards, jinns, devils, demons...
And why bother with thousands of years? Wouldn't a modern, scientifically proven, examples suffice?
It's not like it's something that USED TO WORK but now the magnetic poles have shifted, ice caps have melted, we're on Mars...
You know... like magic and dragons.
If you were actually interested in that topic you had informed yourself long ago.
I don't know... sound's a lot like that onus probandi thing, which is also originally not in English...
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Acupuncture is not based on 'points' on meridians.
Acupuncture is pretty much not based on anything at all. Certainly not based on scientific evidence. The evidence regarding its efficacy is thin and it clearly is being used to "treat" far too many conditions for which there is no evidence that it has any effect. There appears to be some evidence that it can help certain pain conditions (though this is still being evaluated) but the mechanism of action is unclear and the clinical practice guidelines are inconsistent to put it mildly. The NIH has been researching acupuncture and until they can show with appropriate studies evidence of effectiveness beyond placebo and a mechanism of action acupuncture should be regarded with skepticism.
If layman do a 'double blind' study it is most likely that both needles are at the wrong point :)
Most double blind studies of acupuncture to date show that it is nothing but a placebo under most circumstances and for most conditions.
Everyone who practices Chi Gong or other internal arts knows that ... since millennia.
Oh do they now? Are you seriously claiming that QiGong is anything more than a mild form of exercise? In spite of the fact that there is little evidence to support its efficacy for any specific health benefit.
You know what they call alternative medicine that is shown to actually work? Medicine.
maybe they did demonstrate their claims using the most empirical method of all: "Does it work?"
If it actually works it should be straight forward to actually prove it. Placebos "work" (sometimes) but we don't rely on them for treatment for good reasons.
Nerds, please explain how that is an organ.
If you aren't a nerd yourself then slashdot isn't the place for you. Go figure it out yourself.
both acupuncture and sham acupuncture had the same effect.
It's a pity that both cost nearly the same, else I might have been able to save some money with that information.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise... That was a fun moment in Fight Club when I recognized the references to the Reader's Digest articles.
12:50 - press return.
Nonsense. According to Wikipedia, AARP The Magazine is the largest organ.
Damn, 11 minutes in and already the thread is Trumpwin'd.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
And why bother with thousands of years? Wouldn't a modern, scientifically proven, examples suffice?
It would.
But unfortunately it is forbidden to do experiments on prisoners of war. Also, we have no 10,000ds of POWs in modern times.
On the other hand you simply can read if a illness you suffer from has a an acupuncture treatment and try it. For that you do not need any outside party to make a study first ...
And it would cost next to nothing, compared with modern medicine costs for pills.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The second Emperor of China made acupuncture experiments on over 10,000 POWs.
About half or even a full dozen of my friends are MDs/PhDs in medicine and practice acupuncture.
I rather believe them than a random /. poster who never ever bothered to read anything about the topic.
About half the planet uses acupuncture as a traditional medicine. On top of that: in Europe we have about 500M inhabitants. And every health insurance pays for acupuncture treatment.
So: I go with the mass ... but you are right, just because 10 billion flies eat shit, it does not mean that shit is good for you.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I really wonder why intelligent people like you claim that. Hint: you can not double blind (neither the applyer of the needle nor the receiver know where he needle is placed) manual treat a human body.
Not true at all. You can simulate the needle placement with other stimulus. An electric shock can feel like a needle prick as long as the patient cannot see it. And there have been studies about the effectiveness of double blinding for acupuncture specifically.
You want to tell me that you have a study in the US that proves that 4 billion people outside of the USA are treated wrong
First off there are NOT 4 billion people receiving acupuncture so lets dispense with that nonsense right away. Acupuncture is used by a small percentage of the population - most of whom are inclined towards "alternative medicine" which for the most part is a PC term for quackery. Second, there are studies on the effectiveness of acupuncture as a treatment and they mostly find that it is no better than placebo. So YES, I am saying EXACTLY that people are being treated wrong. People take all sorts of folk remedies all over the globe that have no evidence of efficacy.
Half the planet is using acupuncture and related medical treatment like Shiatsu and Thai Massage
More than half the planet also believes that there is an invisible man in the sky who created them and that they should obey despite there being precisely zero evidence for the existence of such a being. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't equal evidence. There are quite a number of treatments that insurance pays for for which the evidence of effectiveness is scant to non existent. They pay for it because the evidence there is limited evidence for or against its effectiveness. Most insurance in the US will not cover acupuncture under normal circumstances. Some insurance companies will turn a blind eye to it with a prescription from a doctor but this is the exception rather than the rule.
It is much more plausible that the US pharm. and health care industry simply is funding fraud studies and dismisses simple treatments because they rather like to sell pharmaceutics instead.
Only to an idiot who is inclined to believe conspiracy theories over scientific studies. Are you seriously arguing that modern medicine does not work despite the ample proof that it does.
I have thousands of cases of evidence that QiGong is a very healthy thing.
No you do not. You certainly do not have an proper studies of such nonsense.
Assuming that QiGong is a mild exercise is idiotic. It is a martial art and healing system.
It is neither a martial art nor is there any evidence that it is a healing system. There is nothing martial about it. I've been involved in various martial arts my whole life and QuGong is exactly the sort of fraudlent crap that guilible people like yourself get sold. I'm betting you think tai chi is a fighting art too. Most of the so called martial arts are really stylized dance classes with a bit of mythology tacked on. Fun, maybe healthy but most don't teach anything about fighting. Just exercise, usually in funny looking costumes. If you want to see what a real martial art looks like, go to an MMA gym, a college wrestling room, or a jiu-jitsu class. Go see what the armed forces do. THOSE are martial arts.
As for it being a "healing system" put down the cool aid. It's been studied and there is NO evidence it has any effect on health aside from that of mild exercise. If you want me to believe you then present the evidence.
Medicine helps in situations where medicine helps ... e.g. a common cold. It does not really help when you have a slipped disc. Qi/Chi Gong does not help you either, but it might prevent getting a slipped disc.
Welcome to the logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc. We're done here.
This is so funny to someone who knows basic histology. They discovered that you can get a whole lot of attention by reframing well-known tissue as a new organ. And hopefully some research grants. That's the real discovery.
Make it the last one hundred years? The millenia before modern printing and typewriters made publication very tedious, so you can easily limit yourself to the past century or so and still come up with a rather close approximation of how many books are actually available in English. And right now, English-speaking countries *still* print more books than China, apparently.
Ezekiel 23:20
And I have not the time to search for you english literature.
So it's proof by assertion, then?
The second Emperor of China made acupuncture experiments on over 10,000 POWs
Link please? No? Proof by assertion
About half or even a full dozen of my friends are MDs/PhDs in medicine and practice acupuncture
Appeal to authority with just a hint of appeal to popularity.
I rather believe them than a random /. poster
You're not good with irony, are you.
Perhaps you like to look up what 'appeal to authority' actually means: https://www.logicallyfallaciou...
For starters: if I recitate from a known authority about a certain subject, then it obviously can't be an appeal to authority.
More explicitley: a MD practicing acupuncture obviously knows more about it than you do. Good luck in refuting this simple statement.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I don't get your point, what do you want me to prove?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Serious question: why would I?
If you are interested into the topic, do your own research.
If you are not, fine for me.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
What? You mean you did not know about this?! This is old news.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Then maybe making such claims as above without doing your homework is inappropriate?
Ezekiel 23:20
I made no claims ...
So what would be inappropriate in a discussion forum?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
a MD practicing acupuncture obviously knows more about it than you do.
There are more MDs and researchers in the medical sciences who say that it is bogus than there are MDs and researchers in the medical sciences who say it isn't bogus.
Good luck in refuting this simple statement.
Done.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
On the other hand you simply can read if a illness you suffer from has a an acupuncture treatment and try it. For that you do not need any outside party to make a study first ...
And it would cost next to nothing, compared with modern medicine costs for pills.
Yeah... If we exclude personal health... time... followed by exclusion of money paid to all those "genuine" hacks willing to stick needles in you for money cause "it can't hurt... and it costs nothing to try... for certain values of nothing".
And if it doesn't help... well... you're probably holding it wrong.
Or the Moon is in the wrong house of the chakra and your feng shui is off because of sunspots and shifting of magnetic poles.
OR... we can simply look at all the people whom it didn't help... which is everyone whose problem wasn't psychosomatic.
In which case there's a far simpler and cheaper alternative. It fixes everything from bad eyesight, through parasites and bacteria - to aging.
I'm currently running the reverse aging one like a motherfucker.
Then I'm gonna do some wealth, telepathy, love... ah screw love... where's the one that will enlarge my penis? Hmm... here's one for a thinner nose... maybe that's some kinda code?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I guess you lost track somewhere ... why should acupuncture help against parasites or aging or bad eye sight?
Are you an idiot?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There are more MDs and researchers in the medical sciences who say that it is bogus than there are MDs and researchers in the medical sciences who say it isn't bogus.
Extremely unlikely.
First of all acupuncture is not a hot research topic.
Secondly, half the world has medicine where acupuncture is a basic treatment.
You are an idiot.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Extremely unlikely.
Well, it's your claim so you provide the proof.
half the world has medicine where acupuncture is a basic treatment.
Yeah. Half the world also believes in an invisible man in the sky. Doesn't mean that there is one.
You are an idiot.
Maybe so, but that's still better than believing in magic.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
What exactly has acupuncture to do with magic?
Next time you want to tell me your body has no reflex zones? Massage does not work? What is next, surgery does not work either?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.