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Apple Tells the EPA Why Cutting the Clean Power Plan Is a Bad Move (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Apple is pushing back against the Environmental Protection Agency's proposal to repeal the Clean Power Plan. The company filed a public comment with the EPA today arguing that scrapping the policy, which calls for cutting power plant pollution, would dull the United States' competitive edge in the clean energy economy. The Clean Power Plan (or CPP) was finalized by the Obama administration, and it takes aim at power plants -- the number one carbon polluters in the U.S., according to the Obama-era EPA website. Had the CPP ever taken effect, it would have given power plants until the year 2030 to curb their carbon emissions by about 30 percent, a move that the Obama administration said could protect the environment, public health, and consumer's pocketbooks.
Apple's comment cites the economic advantages of supporting clean energy, including that it provides "corporate electricity buyers with a hedge against fuel price fluctuation." The price of solar and wind don't change like the price of oil, Apple's filing says. (It also notes that China is currently beating the U.S. in clean energy investments.) The company also says that regulating the grid's carbon emissions "power plant by power plant" won't work. It references its own experiences operating with 100 percent renewable energy here in the U.S. and the work of its subsidiary, Apple Energy LLC, which sells the excess electricity the company generates back to the grid. The electricity system is far too interconnected, the filing says, so "regulation should consider the dynamic and interconnected nature of how power is generated, sold and consumed." That's why it supports the clean power plan, which it says provides a nationwide framework for regulating electricity generation: "It is both needed and the smart thing to do."
Apple's comment cites the economic advantages of supporting clean energy, including that it provides "corporate electricity buyers with a hedge against fuel price fluctuation." The price of solar and wind don't change like the price of oil, Apple's filing says. (It also notes that China is currently beating the U.S. in clean energy investments.) The company also says that regulating the grid's carbon emissions "power plant by power plant" won't work. It references its own experiences operating with 100 percent renewable energy here in the U.S. and the work of its subsidiary, Apple Energy LLC, which sells the excess electricity the company generates back to the grid. The electricity system is far too interconnected, the filing says, so "regulation should consider the dynamic and interconnected nature of how power is generated, sold and consumed." That's why it supports the clean power plan, which it says provides a nationwide framework for regulating electricity generation: "It is both needed and the smart thing to do."
They might lose the economic advantage of outsourcing all of their manufacturing. Monopolies are always campaigning against you.
Follow the productivity, not the fantasies of vote-buying politicians.
half the reason Trump got elected was desperate coal miners. This is an utterly impotent gesture on Apple's part. He's got to do something to appease them or they're not going to come out to vote for him next election.
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"Clean Energy" dulls our competitive edge in the general economy, making power exceptionally expensive. Even government subsidies don't help because we're all paying for that through our taxes. It's all an enormous scam and it's making people rich at our expense and making us uncompetivie against coutries like China and other third world who aren't afraid to utilize their resources.
Just who would be producing the equipment used to implement this "clean power plan" nationwide? I bet China, our obvious enemy today, would benefit greatly.
E Proelio Veritas.
Changing the rules again, would devalue Apples electricity contracts.
They bought hydro before bitcoin went crazy, so have done well indeed.
It did not save Americas only Solar Cell plant , now hiding under a 25% tariff, which will be boosted again by Aluminium tariffs, and China has wind power covered too.
No new nuclear plants or new Hydro in the works? Shale gas producers also need a market, now the Russia to China pipeline is going ahead.
Say no to new coal plants (unless they are burning rubbish with it) and let market forces decide if the remaining ones stay in business, Existing coal plants have already spread radioactive fallout near the stacks (yes coal ash is). Also 50% of coal burning pollution is water, and the waste heat can be used for agriculture.
Buy D.C. townhouse. Let to ... oh, EPA admin dude. Give him $49.99 per-day-stayed deal. Promise to never change locks on him. Offer free well-stocked mini-bar and instructions at door to not break down said door, under any circumstances. Whisper sweet nothings. Present blanks pages with signature line to be signed. PROFIT!
It's a Republican world. We can do these things and it's all normal.
That guy was really great at kicking the can down the road.
Just who would be producing the equipment used to implement this "clean power plan" nationwide? I bet China, our obvious enemy today, would benefit greatly.
And why is that? Maybe because we neglected green and clean energy because the fossil fuel industry has our government (pretty much the Republicans) by the balls? (Mitch McConnell [R-KY] origninated the lie about the "War on Coal" at the behest of his masters in the industry.)
And maybe they did a great job in convincing half the electorate that green and clean is some "librul horseshit" to destroy jobs and ...socialism?
We are backwards. Sticking to fossil fuels - an antiquated dirty backwards fuel source - will ruin this country. While the rest of the World progresses and surpasses us (like China already has in terms of energy), we will become a backwards shithole because of ignorant short sighted ideology and folks trying to preserve their outdated business - like the coal miners.
"It is both needed and the smart thing to do."
That's politician's code for "don't do it".
What does a music player company have to do with setting energy policy? They make terrible products. How good can their judgement be on other issues?
And I'm not an Apple hater. I still have a PowerBook (yes, PPC based) that I love as well as a few more modern MacBooks (that run 10.13 which I don't much care for). It went to crap when they made iOS and started turning powerful UNIX workstations into media consumption devices.
Substitute geeks for coal miners and watch the argument change when their turn comes to be an "outdated business".
AFAIK, this repeal doesn't stop anyone from developing clean energy on their own. It just removes the mandate that they HAVE too.
Apple is just pissed that other companies won't be forced to waste a ton of money developing a lot of clean energy that usually turns out to not be all it's cracked up to be. As a Silicon Valley company with a smug liberal customer base, Apple doesn't have any choice but to go clean. And they want to government to force other companies to do it too, so they won't be the only ones stuck with the additional costs.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Just keep focusing on race, you racist.
Yes because every industry does things like reduce pollution or increase safety without a mandate. Every power plant I know was actively looking to reduce pollution. Car manufacturers were fighting with each other to have the lowest emissions. I mean look at Volkswagen and how low their diesel cars emit.
Also stop picking on poor little Apple and their lack of choices in power generation. I mean they only have billions in cash and can't possibly afford to buy any power plant they wanted. So little choice Apple has. . . [/sarcasm]
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The EPA has it's authority from the National Environmental Policy Act, which is a law voted by congress, which has its authority from the Constitution.
Grow up, libertarian retard.
10 out of 10 for the most boring troll
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
> [sarcasm]
> Also stop picking on poor little Apple and their lack of choices in power generation. I mean they only have billions in cash and can't possibly afford to buy any power plant they wanted. So little choice Apple has. . . [/sarcasm]
Besides, it's all nice being conscious about the environment and wanting to score some points with your clientele -- specially if they value veganism, pet protection and ecotourism.
But let's talk turkey: isn't it easier to move operations to Canada and send warm regards to Trump from outside this hole made great again?
It's foolish when half of the country try to fix things while the other half has a lot of fun sinking the boat.
As a foreigner, what I would do is... wait, I'm already a foreigner! I might just get me a chair and popcorn.
You should read the constitution sometime. You'll find very little to support the EPA. In fact, the only part that seems valid is the regulation of waterways as a means of interstate commerce.
Cross-over, the point where both solar and wind are cheaper than new coal and gas generation, has already occurred. Check out the presentations/writings of Ramez Naab for more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwSkQa1tNmE
As a consequence of the above, greedy capitalists will generally use the cheapest energy source possible. As of last year, that's now renewables in many parts of the world. This effect will become more and more pronounced as technology continues to develop and mature.
Did you miss Article I or are you just a dipshit?
Fuck you, fucking Trump eunuch.
For every EPA program cut, EPA directors add $75,000 bonuses to their salaries.
The EPA tell Apple why dropping Intel in favor of ARM processors will be a bad idea...
There's not going to be a country left for people to live in once Trump's term is over.
Well you better get out while the gettin is good. And pass that advice along to your Progressive friends too.
The capacity of American oil production is such now that there is essentially a natural cap of $70/barrel, which which get lower over time as oil production improves technology. Natural gas is also really cheap now compared to where it used to be and is going to stay that way for a very long time.
Alternative energy will take over naturally is the technology there improves also... just let it do its thing.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Please cite the part of Article I, asshat. Congress only has authority to make laws that are necessary and proper for an authorized power granted to it. So which authorization are you citing or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?
Instant meltdown. Classy.
All signs point to the country being in big trouble - trade wars, regressive policies like this, incompetence - the list is long.
What's your counter?
(I bet you are such a pussy you have to carry a gun to feel safe)
American arrogance thinks it can continue to screw over the rest of the worlds climate because they have the largest military. The coming century will belong to the China because they are working to protect the environment. Soft power says that the world will pivot away from America. This is basic psychology, nothing to do with left verses right, America first means the rest of us last.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
Coward.
The idiocy in the 'clean energy camp' has been recently exposed, and the costs to the environment somewhat balanced. The Obama regulations targeting American industries are being overturned so our industries should start producing, though it will take a while to recover from Obama era regulations.
Please cite the part of Article I, asshat. Congress only has authority to make laws that are necessary and proper for an authorized power granted to it. So which authorization are you citing or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?
You're seriously arguing that protecting the environment is not "necessary and proper"?
It must be necessary and proper to an authorized power. Are you that stupid?
Well, the average asian lady looks much better and more healthy than an americcan, too ... ... USA is only cool if you speak english and are scared to learn an asian language.
Jokes aside, america became partly great because of the 'brain drain' they put on the rest of ghe world. That is changing rapidly. The 'hot spots' on the planet are all in Asia
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Did [those who self-identify as "the left"] absorb a fucking thing MLK said??
"The 'zombie apocalypse' is a thing, it is here... and it is you."
Anyone who thinks Apple is doing this for altruistic reasons is truly a moron. Apple expects to make money, or has invested money, based on CPP, and I don't mean C++.
You're seriously arguing that protecting the environment is not "necessary and proper"?
*You're* seriously suggesting that the Founding Fathers had the EPA and Eco/AGW-Nutter agendas in mind when they included that phrase?
Pruitt is one of the only members of the Trump cabinet who isn't a complete shill. He's shredding eco-fascism in record time. Hooray for Pruitt!
A giant multinational KKKorporation controlling — or attempting to control — US Government.
The so called "Liberals" side with the corporation...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
That kills any chance of it getting implemented under the current regime. They don't believe in "smart".
What was the logic behind your square brackets?
I bet that 99% of the people reading this don't know that the rules that are being reversed were/are: 1) Only started investigating of the laws the day after Trump won the election, 2). That the laws enacted were in acted 60 days after the election just before Obama left office.
These rules were passed to harm America not to help it, as with nearly all of Obama's attack on the Constitution and America.
You're right that the fossil fuel industry is rife with cronyism.
However, you completely miss the fact that the green energy sector is also, at least just as much. The reason these "green companies" need so much government help is because they are incompetent to survive on the free market (like coal), so they parasitically sap tax dollars to prop themselves up.
What we need is to abolish cronyism. No handouts, breaks, and favors for any industry. Let businesses that can't survive on their own die off. Pave the way for entrepreneurs and innovators to come up with new solutions that actually work without stealing tax dollars from everyday Americans.
Have you ever read the writings of Thomas Jefferson, or the Constitutional Convention, or the state ratifying conventions, or debates from when the Constitution was formed, all of which express that its correct interpretation is the exact OPPOSITE of what you suggest?
Of course you haven't. But you're enough of a legal scholar to comment on this topic on a forum as if you're an expert.
You have to be literally delusional to think that Obama did anything substantive for peace. His administration objectively dropped more bombs than even George W. Bush. And sadly, Trump will now likely surpass Obama. But to claim Obama "ended wars" is so objectively absurd that you have demonstrated you are a partisan hack and have no credibility on this subject.
We shouldn't always wait for a disaster to react to. We should be wise and make moves in advance of "market conditions" to form. The invisible hand of the market is NOT god and it's not wise either; it's mostly reactionary and short sighted.
Alternatives needed to get jump started and they did... but they need to grow faster than they have and most importantly, they need to be large enough to bribe government officials on a competitive scale with the fossil fuel industry. THEN we can seriously talk about sitting back and letting the chaos unfold hopefully in the right direction.
Old energy is still heavily subsidized and far too influential. It is not a fair competition.
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It never fails, the cat ALWAYS eventually comes out of the bag.
So, we have a climate change denialist here. Explains a lot. Which also means that further discussion is pointless. I never wresle with a pig. We both get dirty, and the pig likes it.
No, the reason that this happens is that many Americans believe that a magic sky fairy has chosen us and will take care of any problems that arise. The other countries are basically fucked, because they're either not the US or they are following a different magic sky fairy that's obviously not the right one.
Actually there are fewer than 50k people in the US at least: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/naics4_212100.htm. More people work at Taco Bell, but somehow the Chalupa hasn't become a major talking point yet.
"Gee, the men in black suits with big guns said they have the authority to do this, so who could dare question their authority?"
Now, if you HAD read Thomas Jefferson or James Madison, particularly on the Compact Theory of the Union and the Nullification Crisis of 1798, let alone Abel Upshur's commentary on the Constitution, you'd understand why your idea of "sue at SCOTUS" is bunk. But that would require effort and independent thinking, while you're more specialized in parroting MSNBC.
CO2 is NOT pollution. Pollution is something you want to completely eliminate. Below about 180 ppm of CO2, all plant life on Earth will die, and along with the plants, all animals.
No, the signs of a meltdown are in the institutionalize D bigotry of the urban class. The revolution will look just like the French Revolution.
When did libertarian become a Constitutionalist?
But where did Congress get the authority to create the EPA and the National Environmental Policy Act? Article I is pretty clear on the authority of Congress.
We Have a winner takes all political system instead of a parliament. This is by design, it makes it easy for the ruling class to maintain an illusion of democracy while having a practical oligarchy.
Anyway, we have what's called an "Electoral College" where if you get a majority of the votes in a state you win the entire state. Most states can be counted on to vote for a certain party's candidate. For example, California always votes for the Democrat. Arizona always votes for the Republican. Etc, etc.
There are a handful of "Swing" states that decide who gets the presidency. Ohio is one of them. Winning Ohio was instrumental in Trump winning the presidency. Trump spent a lot of time appealing to a handful of coal miners there (and in a few other states like Virginia) which pushed him over the edge. It was also great "optics" (e.g. it made him look good) for the other swing states; who have similar problems with job losses.
tl;dr: America has an incredibly fucked up political system.
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don't forget that. I'm genuinely scared after what happened (and is still happening) in Flint, MI. The fact the America shrugged it's shoulders when it happened is even more terrifying. I've started filtering my water, and I'm hoping I'm just being paranoid. Here's hoping the Dems win in 2018 and kick Trump out in 2020. Screw partisanship, if your party can't even be bothered to give me clean water you can go to hell.
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and to Trump's credit he's put some tariffs on some of the cheap panels China was dumping here (to be fair those tariffs were proposed during the Obama admin).
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Article I is pretty clear on the authority of Congress.
Then you should have no problem convincing the Supreme Court, shouldn't you ?
Until you provide me with a SCOTUS decision which supports your claim, shut up. And if you're not happy about the laws that Congress make, change Congress. YOU put those guys there. You only have yourselves to blame.
They have enough money to build several dozen 'clean' power plants already.
yet don't.
but they have no problem telling everyone else what they should be doing...
Apple has the means to make a difference. Yet doesn't.
Vaffanculo
Anyone who tells you that cutting "carbon emissions by about 30 percent" will "protect consumer's pocketbooks" is flat out lying to you.
And in fact, the Obama White House page those words link to in the summary doesn't even contain the work pocketbook, so even the citation itself is something of a lie.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Alternatives needed to get jump started and they did.
Why? We gained five years advancement, max. I am actually pretty dubious about that since most of the tax credits went to back companies that were basically money laundering operations for politically connected people. The only real gain was because Musk, not really a politically connected person, managed to game the tax laws to actually divert some of the flow of government funs to himself instead of the intended targets. Why do you think they were allowed to expire...
but they need to grow faster than they have
Why? The natural growth far outpaces all existing desires for reductions in carbon emissions. Solar power makes way too much sense - you don't have to rely on some mystical "hand of the market", just common sense that says it will eventually take over...
Same for cars. The things people most want about cars, power (really torque) electric cars are monsters at. The natural reduction of carbon emissions from cars is inevitable, without any artificial speeding (your own form of mystical "hand" that will cure all ills).
Old energy is still heavily subsidized
So what? That means nothing over 20 years, All the oil companies see this coming which is why they are heavily divested in alternative energy study. Why can't see see what they so clearly can?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
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Um...you DO know that Flint happened under OBAMA'S watch and his EPA chief...right?
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc