Slashdot Mirror


Tesla Temporarily Stops Model 3 Production Line (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Tesla is temporarily stopping production of its Model 3 electric car, amid a long waiting list and several missed targets. The company, however, says the shutdown is intended to resolve some of the problems that have contributed to the numerous delays in getting the cars to hundreds of thousands of reservation holders. The automaker said Monday it would halt production of the Model 3 sedan for 4-5 days at its Fremont, California assembly plant, BuzzFeed reported. Tesla, however, says this is part of a planned period of downtime that was similar to another shutdown in February, and it isn't intended to have an affect on the company's current production targets for the car. "Our Model 3 production plan includes periods of planned downtime in both Fremont and Gigafactory 1," a Tesla spokesperson told The Verge. "These periods are used to improve automation and systematically address bottlenecks in order to increase production rates. This is not unusual and is in fact common in production ramps like this."

145 comments

  1. Next - janitorial staffing updates by sinij · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

    1. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Depends where the janitors come from.

      --
      I tend to rant.
    2. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by sinij · · Score: 0

      It is a swindle.

      Welcome to Unrestrained Capitalism, anything that is not illegal will be attempted, and then some.

    3. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by ausekilis · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because people are genuinely interested in the amount of fiber in Mr. Musk's diet.

    4. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I know, right! The Model 3 is already the best selling (as in actual deliveries) EV. It also outsells similarly priced 4-door ICE competitors like the Acura TLX, Mercedes C/CLA, Audi A4, Lexus RC, and the BMW 2, 3, and 4 series.

      I fully expect WSJ articles soon with articles like "Tesla Manufacturing Impacted by Maintenance: Robot 127E was taken down for maintenance during the second shift at the Tesla factory in Freemont, California during the second shift today. Production was adversely impacted with 7 fewer Model 3's produced than expected while capacitor C12 was replaced..."

    5. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They took fully refundable $1000 reservations, where is the swindle?

    6. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      Maybe because Tesla and Musk constantly demand attention. Heck, Musk installs a few solar panels at one bldg. in Puerto Rico and its an international story. But that's ALL HE DID in PR. Its not like installing solar panels is some great achievement, its been done for decades. Meanwhile, individuals and organizations that did so much more were and are still ignored.

      Maybe also because Tesla is worth billions in market value, but is still burning cash like crazy with no indication they can do anything better that get cash positions (in operations only) for a quarter if they just stop spending.

      Maybe also because they can't meeting their stated production goals, and keep falling further behind. They go through hoops to get one week above 2000 cars and then fall back below it yet still claim they have achieved a 2000/week production rate. Henry Ford produced Model T's at a faster rate back in 2014.

      Quit whining about attention.

    7. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meanwhile, teachers in West Virginia went on strike. And Oklahoma. And Kentucky. Where the governor admitted that the teachers were the ones keeping children from being sexually abused and poisoned, but well, they just couldn't be fairly paid for that critical task.

      Yay America! Where two black men still can't wait at Starbucks before ordering.

    8. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren’t refunding them.

    9. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      Pff! What? Nooo... *closes Slashdot submission tab detailing plumbing issues*

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    10. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      There is clearly an effort underway to sow uncertainty about Tesla by its competitors and also by Wall Street traders hoping to make money on the ups and downs.

      If Tesla can actually ramp up production and make the line profitable that is a huge threat to some very big entrenched interests and the uncertainty about that is a huge opportunity for some Wall Street vulture capitalists.

      I wish Tesla well.

    11. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Stock pricing I imagine. There's a lot of people with short term investments in the company.

      This isn't a "janitorial issue" either. This is about Tesla consistently failing to hit production targets by orders of magnitude, with stock that is prices mostly on assumptions of future performance and hence promises. This shut down actually appears to be the consequence of previous Tesla story of them actually managing to increase production to something close to a quarter or so of what they actually promised to deliver. Which followed the reports that this was done in unsustainable way that would force stoppage of production line in near future due to wear and tear.

      Relevance comes from the fact that if even hitting a quarter of production which is needed to just even begin meeting the promises makes the production random inoperable in weeks as appears to have happened here, what is the basis of the stock price of Tesla?

    12. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      Why are you so fearful of talking about Tesla's continuing problems with executing their core business according to plan?

    13. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla?

      You really have to ask? The answer's really quite obvious.

    14. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by CrankyFool · · Score: 2, Informative
      I was about to respond, snippily, that it's not like there's a whole lot of people cancelling, and then thought I'd google.

      Turns out AC's right -- people are cancelling, and in many cases Tesla's taking a really really long time to refund their money (up to 3 months, it seems). More at https://www.wired.com/story/ca...

      Not technically "not refunding", but still pretty poor.

    15. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is good news coming out of China suggesting that TESLA will be able to open a plant in China while still holding control of the company.

      The market weasels want to talk down the stock so they can get a better price as the implications of TESLA opening a plant in China move out into the general investor marketplace.

      Tomorrows headlines will be something like, TESLA to lose all IP and lose key management as a result of internal division and revolt related to horrid plans to build plant in China.

      The perceived threat to American business resulting from an Musk seems to know no bounds.

    16. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone can run a country into the ground. But it takes some special talent to bankrupt an oil company. They practically pump money from the ground - paying the workers to keep doing that should be easy enough.

    17. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Octorian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      Because Tesla is a heavily shorted stock, and has started to return to the "good news" phase of the cycle.
      Whenever a stock is heavily shorted, good news that increases the stock value must be immediately followed by a series of damning articles to make the stock value drop again.

      So if Model 3 production was completely on-track, and there was nothing else bad to report about the company, you absolutely would see a front-page article on the terrible toilet problems that were causing issues at the factory. (Often, but not exclusively, originating from a place like "Business Insider" or "Seeking Alpha" from an author who quietly admits to have a short position on TSLA and a long position on competitors.)

    18. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a concerted effort to smear Musk, Space-X and Tesla. I had read somewhere that both Boeing and Lockheed-Martin had paid Breitbart to run negative pieces on Musk and his companies. There is always a reason why things happen the way they do.

    19. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I know, right! The Model 3 is already the best selling (as in actual deliveries) EV. It also outsells similarly priced 4-door ICE competitors like the Acura TLX, Mercedes C/CLA, Audi A4, Lexus RC, and the BMW 2, 3, and 4 series.

      Citation needed.

    20. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I expect it is Musk takes a Tech Sector approach towards its products (High Automation, Smart Software, ). Many of them such as Automobiles already have an industry with its own sets of standards and best practices behind them. So it is interesting to see what manufacturing changes stay and what roles back to the traditional tried and true method. They are camps that wants to see these new methods succeed (because these new manufacturing methods can put America back to manufacturing again, by reducing the cost per employee per product). They are camps that wants to see it fail showing that the current companies are actually doing the best they can and any problems are from outside influences. Then they are camps that are interested it in in the academic approach, where it isn't about winning or loosing, but to see what works and what doesn't.

      I expect Tesla when it expands will implement more traditional methods in the future, as well the traditional car companies will buy into aspects of Tesla approach.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    21. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Jodka · · Score: 1

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla?

      Two reasons:

      First, anything which seems like it could possibly be construed as a setback is cited by the Tesla haters as evidence that the company is certainly doomed to fail. Some conservatives, because they oppose government subsidies and are skeptical of the forecast (and Gore-cast) AGW apocalypse, by association despise Tesla and talk it down at any opportunity. Of course, Tesla is long-term bet on the profitability of mass-producing smart electric cars. Growing pains, such as deviations from forecast production growth, do not inform if that is either a good or bad bet.

      Second, Tesla fans are so enthusiastic about the Tesla vehicles, company and Musk that they eagerly lap up any bit of News. Teslarati covers Tesla and SpaceX. Some of the "news" there is like "OMG Tesla prototype with new shade of seat color spotted!" So apparently there is actually a market for this kind of stuff.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    22. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla's failures prove that not all things are possible, even in 2018, for computer science whiz kids from San Francisco. The most important and difficult part of a car company is still the physical cars themselves, not the software.
      Tesla will end up merging with or being bought by a car maker. It's the smart thing to do. Tesla's got the software. They have everything else. The Liliputians didn't rule the day either.

    23. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by haruchai · · Score: 2

      There is nothing trivial when a car company which took prepaid orders is years late.

      It is a swindle.

      They're not "years late".
      No deposits for Model 3 were taken before Mar 31st, 2016 and at the time the start of production for North America was supposed to be Fall 2017.
      So they're running months behind, not years

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    24. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by sinij · · Score: 1

      There are also starving children somewhere. What any of this has to do with Tesla?

    25. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by haruchai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was about to respond, snippily, that it's not like there's a whole lot of people cancelling, and then thought I'd google.

      Turns out AC's right -- people are cancelling, and in many cases Tesla's taking a really really long time to refund their money (up to 3 months, it seems). More at https://www.wired.com/story/ca...

      Not technically "not refunding", but still pretty poor.

      Did you read your own link?
      "The next day, I found a FedEx envelope on my doorstep. My refund had arrived — 61 business days after I cancelled my reservation.

      Not every Tesla refund takes this long — or this much work. "It was easy," says Jeff Maggard, a former reservation holder from Ithaca, New York, who cancelled his deposit in February after a career change made it hard to justify buying a new car. His refund showed up on his credit card less than two weeks later. "I did it all online without talking to anyone. There was no number to call so I could be talked out of it by a representative. No dumb tricks to make me stay. It was great," Maggard says. "Very customer-centered."

      I've waited much longer for refunds for a lot less than $1000 so I don't know what the gripe is all about.
      In any case, it's clear that it's not everyone who had to wait a long time.
      It's been suggested that a lot of the complainants may have had the credit cards used to place the reservation expire which would make a refund difficult.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    26. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by sinij · · Score: 1

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      Good. Now I can count my today's time on /. toward mandatory court-ordered community service time.

      Pff! What? Nooo... *closes Slashdot submission tab detailing plumbing issues*

    27. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're currently delivering about half what they promised...like half a year after the car rolled out. Kinda sucks, but ultimately I don't see that as very important for any company, as long as they continue improving. Words like "orders of magnitude" make it seem like you have some personal anti-Tesla grudge.

    28. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by haruchai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Maybe because Tesla and Musk constantly demand attention. Heck, Musk installs a few solar panels at one bldg. in Puerto Rico and its an international story. But that's ALL HE DID in PR. Its not like installing solar panels is some great achievement, its been done for decades. Meanwhile, individuals and organizations that did so much more were and are still ignored"

      yeah, Tesla Energy only installed at least 6 projects to restore power in Puerto Rico incl at a children's hospital.
      Stupid of Elon to go through all that trouble when all he had to do was toss a few bundles of paper towels, say that everyone was enjoying themselves and we can't do more because of all the bigly ocean water surrounding the island.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    29. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. They're half a year late. Reservations have remained roughly constant at about half a million. And over on the Tesla forums, people are cheering the news about scheduled line downtime. Because you take lines down to upgrade them to be better / faster. Every time Tesla has taken the line down in the past, it's come back up much faster than previously. The last line downtime saw an over 2x increase in production.

      I've been hoping to see news that Tesla would be taking the line down, as that would be the next sign of an upcoming production jump, and was very happy when I saw this today.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    30. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me know they aren't late when they ship 'em. Until then, it is in the "bright future", which, in Muskworld may never come. They are already taking longer than AvtoVAZ for a Lada in 1986.

    31. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not my post, but:

      "I know, right! The Model 3 is already the best selling (as in actual deliveries) EV." - Ref
      Accura TLX: Pretty close. The TLX had a March sales jump, but with the new 3 production rate, there's no way it'll beat the 3 again.
      Mercedes C/CLA: Model 3 sold over 50% more
      Audi A4: Closer, but still a solid Model 3 win.
      Lexus RC: Over an order of magnitude more Model 3 sales
      BMW 2: 3 1/2 times more Model 3s.
      BMW 3: Actually the 3-series edged out the Model 3... but it's unlikely to do so again.
      BMW 4: Model 3 wins.

      Why the incredulity? You've been reading too much doom-and-gloom from the Tesla shorts. Model 3 production has rapidly accelerated.

      (Note: the GP was clearly talking about the US, so I used US market figures)

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    32. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Tesla can actually ramp up production

      People have been talking about this on slashdot since the early 2000s. It is still as far from happening, as we are from developing cold fusion. Musk is a failure, a loudmouth with nothing to keep him afloat but public funding. Fuck him, fuck his sponsors, fuck corporate socialism.

    33. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla? Are we also going to get "Janitors at Tesla factory had to put overtime to unclog plugged toilet" headlines?

      We need such crucial Tech news!

      Maybe one of the software developers took a big dump and this caused the clogging of the Tesla toilet.

      Or maybe it was one of the gardeners.... Or something else!

      We just do not know!

      And what shape and color did it have? What about texture?

      What tools se needed to unclog? How long did it tale?

    34. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla is a long-term bet that idiots will buy any promise that a car salesman will flash at them. So far the salesman is winning.

    35. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      Did you read your own link?

      I read the link. Tesla promised refunds within three weeks, then promised them again within two weeks on the phone, and failed to deliver on either promise. It's about setting expectations. People would be pissed off if they told them the truth, so instead they lie to potential future customers? Okay, if that works for them. But it sets a precedent.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    36. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by OneAhead · · Score: 1

      Of course, because there exists nothing in-between anarcho-capitalism and communist dictatorship.</sarcasm>

      I call strawman argument.

    37. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is about Tesla consistently failing to hit production targets by orders of magnitude,

      They hit 80% of last quarter's target. Is that "off by an order of magnitude" to you?

      Which followed the reports that this was done in unsustainable

      What BS "reports"? They've maintained the 2k/wk rate since then.

      Yes, they're six months late. Big whoop. Reservations are still at half a million, the "competition" is still a joke, and each of the supposed "Tesla killers" so far has turned out to be half-baked. Exceeding in some cases even my pessimism. I totally didn't call that, for example, the 2018 Leaf would only be able to go 200-300km before being throttled to 20-25kW charge rates. I mean, ouch.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    38. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      I know, right! The Model 3 is already the best selling (as in actual deliveries) EV. It also outsells similarly priced 4-door ICE competitors like the Acura TLX, Mercedes C/CLA, Audi A4, Lexus RC, and the BMW 2, 3, and 4 series.

      I'm assuming you are joking. But in case you aren't, the highest estimate of model 3's that I've seen is just over 17KThe Chevy Bolt hit 20K before the end of last year Nissan has delivered 300K Leafs as of January of this year.

    39. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That 80% production target was only a temporary blip and only achieved by shutting down s and x production. Real production is well below that.

    40. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. I had two reservations, and refunded one. It took 60 seconds.

    41. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I refunded a model 3 reservation. It took literally a few seconds, and I had my money back in under 5 days.

      You are speaking from a position of ignorance.

    42. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Read the articles, you fucking imbecile. Those are actual delivered cars... You people are so retarded.

    43. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the guy who lost a fortune shorting tsla..

    44. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So would I. The amount of science we could do on the diet of a man who shits pure gold and farts roses is incredible.

    45. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      If you're so fucking worried about blacks, what are you doing about the epidemic of young black men from single-parent homes killing other blacks? (Well, other then blaming whitey...)

      What are you doing? Other than calling for their arrest, taking away the welfare for the children, and replacing the public schools with private religious indoctrination camps!

      But actually, the Philadelphia police commissioner, Richard Ross, is black. And yet he was still wrong. It is not city policy to commit racist enforcement of the laws, and should not be in practice. Yet it is.

      And if teachers weren't fairly paid there wouldn't be a long list of people applying to work as teachers.

      If teachers were fairly paid, there wouldn't be a long list of shortages for teaching positions.

      It's a damn shame that by allowing politicians to take money from corporations, the political parties of the United States have subordinated the interests of the public to the corporate oligarchs?

      Oh, wait? You didn't know that corporate executive boards OWN both Parties? And that it's best when government is by the corporation, for the corporation?

      Fixed that for you.

    46. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      The S and X lines were down for one day. For periodic maintenance, because you have to take lines down periodically for maintenance.

      S&X are neither production nor demand constrained; they're 18650 cell constrained. Neither Tesla nor Panasonic have an interest in the capital expenditure to increase 18650 production, since Tesla is moving to 2170s.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    47. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Rei · · Score: 1

      He's too busy citing short nonsense.

        * Reservations have remained constant, as confirmed in statements filed with the SEC. The rate of cancellations has been roughly equal to the rate of new orders.

        * Only 30% of people who receive their invite are choosing first production vehicles. If you choose first production, you must buy the LR pack and PUP and you can't buy dual motor, performance package, 20" wheels, or air suspension. It's impressive to me that 30% of people are choosing to configure with such a limited option set, when most people have the specific vehicle that they want in mind. Choosing a "not available yet" config is not a cancellation.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    48. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Rei · · Score: 1

      Why are you mixing together total sales with monthly sales? Here are monthly sales. 3820 Model 3s are estimated sold and delivered in the US in March, vs. 1774 Bolts.

      And why are you comparing total production of the Bolt vs. the Model 3 to begin with?

      The Bolt concept car was unveiled in January 2015; pre-production vehicles were seen in testing in mid-2015; the first production car shown at the end of 2015; the production line started making vehicles in fall of 2016; and sales were opened to the public in December 2016.

      The Model 3 concept car was unveiled in March 2016; final design was completed in mid-2016 and parts ordered for 300 prototypes; the first 30 vehicles off the line were in July of 2017; and the Model 3 hit 345/wk in November 2017 (1060 in December).

      You're comparing total numbers of a car that's literally been around for an entire extra year. Also note the above: even with Tesla's delays, they still made the Model 3 faster than GM made the Bolt. With a much more ambitious plant (aka, designed for scaling to far larger volumes, meaning more work to do before even the first vehicle rolls off the line).

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    49. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they aren’t.

    50. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're only at half (40% technically) if you consider their previous adjusted down number. They're far short of their original production goal. Toss in that companies that follow VINs seem to indicate that they're at a little over half of what they're saying they're at. So there does seem evidence that they're running at 25% of their already previously adjusted down numbers.

    51. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to share this good news? That they missed their production goals by half? That they had to recall half the cars they ever made? That Moodys downgraded them to C+? Apparently that they're having to shut down their only production line? Maybe you're talking about the recent Autopilot deaths?

      Please, share with us this "good news".

    52. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Musk recently said they just managed to deliver 2000 vehicles in a week. You say they've delivered 500,000. So, being generous and saying that they have been producing 2000 since production started (they haven't), it would take 250 weeks to deliver 500,000 vehicles. Has the Model 3 been in production for the better part of 5 years now? Me's think you may be what you accuse others of being.

    53. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by fozzy1015 · · Score: 0

      There is nothing trivial when a car company which took prepaid orders is years late.

      And takes orders for a $35K version that'll never be produced.

      It is a swindle.

      Indeed. Swindled to provide an interest-free loan that one may get back if the company goes bankrupt.

    54. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by fozzy1015 · · Score: 1

      I know, right! The Model 3 is already the best selling (as in actual deliveries) EV. It also outsells similarly priced 4-door ICE competitors like the Acura TLX, Mercedes C/CLA, Audi A4, Lexus RC, and the BMW 2, 3, and 4 series.

      I fully expect WSJ articles soon with articles like "Tesla Manufacturing Impacted by Maintenance: Robot 127E was taken down for maintenance during the second shift at the Tesla factory in Freemont, California during the second shift today. Production was adversely impacted with 7 fewer Model 3's produced than expected while capacitor C12 was replaced..."

      This argument is flawed. The other manufacturers have model variances to spread their buyers among. Tesla has just three.

    55. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by fozzy1015 · · Score: 1

      Tesla will end up merging with or being bought by a car maker. It's the smart thing to do. Tesla's got the software. They have everything else. The Liliputians didn't rule the day either.

      Even if Tesla's market cap falls to $5B(less than $30 a share, assuming no further dilution), nobody will buy it given its $24B in liabilities. Assets will be sold piecemeal after reorg.

    56. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Lucas123 · · Score: 1

      "Routine manufacturing decisions"?

      If this were Ford or Kia, two companies that have produced millions of cars in more than a dozen models, a temporary shutdown of a production line of one model would be more routine, but this is Tesla -- a company that's still not profitable and that has missed several deadlines for its Model 3 "mass-production" vehicle.

      So yeah, it is a big deal.

      Not to mention potential buyers have plopped down $1,000 to reserve one of these cars (OK, I mentioned it)

    57. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Northdot · · Score: 0

      At my local Starbucks, there were often 3 retirement-age white dudes who seemed to always be parked in the comfiest chairs, without purchasing anything. They seemed to be just using the place as their personal social club. I remember thinking that if I owned that business, I might be a bit ticked off. It wasn't a big place, and there wasn't a whole lot of seating.

      So when I read about the non-customers waiting in the Phil. Starbucks being asked to leave, it didn't strike me as 100% crazy. So hey, maybe it was about racism, and maybe it wasn't. We simply don't know the entire circumstance, or what was in the manager's mind when he wanted them to leave.

    58. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      years late? Lie much?
      Fact is, that production was to start last year when it did. In addition, while Musk spoke of how fast it would come up, it is not that far off. In fact, they appear to be ready to hit 5000/week later this quarter. That would make it the world's fastest ramp-up that has ever been done.

    59. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Monthly sales are irrelevant. Here’s the fact the model 3 is NOT the best selling ev ever.

    60. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Octorian · · Score: 1

      There were some articles about how Model 3 production was finally starting to ramp up.
      Also, their stock price was beginning to recover from the recent dip.

      And speaking of that recall... Everyone else does those kinds of recalls all the time, and it never makes the news. It was a complete non-issue that only made the headlines "because Tesla."

      Seriously, I once had a car that got a recall notice every other month. No one really cared, and it was just part of the normal routine maintenance.

    61. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Musk puts in the hours & effort to get shit done.
      Trump blames others and fucks off to the golf course.

    62. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla fanboi got his panties in a wad.

    63. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      The Koch brothers declared war on electric cars and solar/wind last year. I expect some of the the current coordinated howling about Tesla is in fact a single front in their war. The Russians didn't invent this kind of thing. They just copied it for their own use.

    64. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Also a good time for the "analysts" to buy cheap, so the drumbeat goes on to drive the stock price as low as it can go.

    65. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice propaganda. The black men were not buying anything, were not customers, and refused to leave when asked 3 times to make room for paying customers.

      Oh noes! People other than black men go to Starbucks every day and don't buy anything, are never asked to leave, corporate policy does not include calling the police, and the police don't arrest people other than black men who they purportedly didn't want to arrest, but oh sure, this time, this time, it wasn't racism. Just like all the other times it wasn't racism.

      Yeah, maybe you can solve the problem with another beer summit, then blame Obama because you don't remember racism in the sixties, and you think the Negro was happy when they were singing in Song of the South and Gone with the Wind.

      Fuck off with your racist bullshit. Being black isn't an excuse for trespassing.

      Sure man, but being black is an excuse to blame somebody for doing something literally thousands of people do every day.

      Enjoy reading about that one on Voat and Gab.ai.

    66. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by Luckyo · · Score: 0

      I guess I hit the nerve. Their initial target was far larger than their massive scaled down "last quarter" target, and I was in fact talking about the reason for stock price, which is carried by big promises.

      You also appear to have missed what this story is about.

      And finally, there are bigger and more successful competitors in electric vehicles. BYD for example. They just do the work, and don't over-promise or focus on expensive vehicles only, so they're not in the news every time something happens on their production lines. Because their stock price doesn't hinge on big promises.

    67. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      Toyota Camry, price-and-size comparable to the Model 3, sells around 10X the Model 3. The Honda Accord, also price-and-size comparable, does about 8X the model 3. The Ford Fusion. also price-and-size comparable, does about 5X the Model 3. US sales alone of mid-size cars runs about 150K per month, meaning the model 3 is around 2.6% of the US market. The worldwide mid-size car market is around 500K per month...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    68. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      We were supposed to see 2K/week in November. Then it slipped to January. Then supposed to be for all of Q1. Now it's well into Q2 and we're taking lines down to try to get to that rate - when the claim back just a few months ago was that it would be near 5K/week around now...

      The last time Tesla took a line down was stopping the X and S lines so they could try (and fail) to hit 2500 the last week of Q1. Maybe this is another surge just to try to hit 2500 in a week - when there is nothing else going on for the X and S?

      That's a lot of churn and effort for a car company that loses billions of dollars...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    69. Re:Next - janitorial staffing updates by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      In July 2017, Musk promised to make 5000 Model 3s weekly in December 2017. We've not seen a sustained 2K/week yet - and it's nearly 4 months late. Producing 3800 in March is around 900 per week - less than 20% of where they were supposed to be last December.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    70. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Did you read your own link?

      I read the link. Tesla promised refunds within three weeks, then promised them again within two weeks on the phone, and failed to deliver on either promise. It's about setting expectations. People would be pissed off if they told them the truth, so instead they lie to potential future customers? Okay, if that works for them. But it sets a precedent.

      You don't know if the refund delay was because Tesla didn't have the money or if there was a problem with the payment processors.
      Tesla claims to have over 60000 net cancellations between the Model 3 reveal and Fall 2017.
      If even a significant number of them were problematic, the message boards would be overflowing with chatter about it.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    71. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You don't know if the refund delay was because Tesla didn't have the money or if there was a problem with the payment processors.

      Yes, I do. I know because Tesla promised people checks within two weeks of their second call, which they then did not get. I know that problem is due to Tesla, not some payment processor. I also know that it's Tesla's responsibility, and if they can't choose a payment processor that processes payments, that's on them. Remember, Musk owns a payment processor. It's how he became massively wealthy in the first place! There is literally no room for excuses here.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    72. Re: Next - janitorial staffing updates by haruchai · · Score: 1

      How do you explain all the people who got timely refunds?
      Going by Tesla's info, ~60000 would have cancelled between Apr 2016 and Dec 2017. How many of them are still waiting or took months to receive a refund?

      "Remember, Musk owns a payment processor"?
      PayPal? He's not been part of that for 15 years.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  2. Ctrl+F "Tesla" | "Apple" | "AI" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Match=echo "you are on slashdot"

    1. Re:Ctrl+F "Tesla" | "Apple" | "AI" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      | "Facebook"

  3. In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news, Slashdot temporarily shut down it's web site this morning. But no comment on that.

    1. Re:In other news by bobbied · · Score: 1

      In other news, Slashdot temporarily shut down it's web site this morning. But no comment on that.

      Because Slashdot shutdowns happen pretty often and many think it's a good thing, so it's not news worthy.

      A production shutdown at Tesla doesn't happen too often and some might not think it's a good thing, making it news worthy.

      Personally, I don't care about either.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  4. It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla?

    Experienced automakers wouldn't be going through that. They know how to deal with it. This is yet another sign that Tesla has incompetent management.

    Also, Tesla is going to have a huge cash shortfall - enough for it to go bust. Musk seems to think that Model 3 sales will be enough to keep the company afloat - and then this happens - AGAIN. Musk insists that another cash infusion will not be necessary, but it looks like it will be.

    See, the obsession is that investors have dumped BILLIONS into Tesla and it has been lost - yes, LOST - period.

    The California State Teachers PENSION has a shit load of Tesla stock (WTF were they thinking?!?!) and others have billions in JUNK Tesla bonds on the line - and it ALL rests on Model 3 sales keeping the company afloat.

    If the Musk/Tesla fanboys would STFU and actually read and understand a Tesla financial statement they would see the above FACTS.

    Tesla is going to go bust by the end of the year and it's going to take out the shareholders and the bond holders.

    And everyone who is a member of the California Teachers Pension should start to lawyer up.

    Lastly, Musk is an idiot and his fanboys are gullible morons.

    1. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Musk is the Donald Trump of car company CEOs.

    2. Re: It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Experienced automakers wouldn't be going through that. They know how to deal with it.

      Yeah, only a novice company like Volkswagen would have a shutdown for two weeks this month at their Tennessee factory.

      Shame on them!

    3. Re:It's not trivial by Octorian · · Score: 1

      Why such obsession over trivial and routine manufacturing decisions at Tesla?

      Experienced automakers wouldn't be going through that. They know how to deal with it.

      Of course they would. It just doesn't make the news when they do.

    4. Re: It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VW may shut down one factory, but they have more than one, and manufacture more vehicles in a year than Musk's workshop has done throughout its "glorious" history. So, nobody cares if one factory has a minor problem. But when your ONLY factory is done for when you're already years behind your own schedule, that's just ridiculous.

      Double so when all your "ventures" are mostly government funded.

    5. Re: It's not trivial by rogoshen1 · · Score: 0

      you know what VW has that Tesla doesn't?

      Many, many profitable quarters.

      (My fucking god, whataboutism is the worst fucking form of argument, )

    6. Re:It's not trivial by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Experienced automakers wouldn't be going through that.

      Meanwhile, even with the delays, Tesla made their first 10000 Model 3s in less time than it took GM to make their first 1000 Bolts, from the start of tooling. And the first Model 3s were rolling off the line well sooner than the first Bolts (again, relative to the start of tooling).

      Also, Tesla is going to have a huge cash shortfall

      Bankwupt! Bankwupt, I say! ;)

      Hey, let's put or skeptic's hat on. Let's say that Musk is wrong about 5-6k/wk at the end of this quarter. Let's say they only do 4k at the end of this quarter. That would still be 80% of the line's initial design spec, aka the point where it's designed to be turning a 25% gross margin. Even a miss this quarter still means that they've pretty much succeeded with line development. Yes, they'll tune it over Q3 to get the rate up as high as they can, and this might mean a couple weeks downtime here and there. Sure, they'll probably take a quarter or two to realize the full margin. But at the end of this quarter, they're probably going to be earning at least 10% margin on at least 4k cars per week with an average sale price in the early run of around $45k (it's worth pointing out that the early cars are option-heavy and likely to have higher margins, so 10% is very pessimistic). That's Model 3 profits of $234M in Q3 (positive-$234M, vs a Model 3 loss in the last quarterly report) if Q3 averages only 4k/wk across all of Q3 (vs. the target of 5k/6k per week at the start of Q3). If Q3 averages 5/wk and 15% margin? That's $438M. Q4, at say 6k and 20%? $702M. I mention these numbers to contrast with the 598M quarterly loss they had in Q4.

      Even if we ignore everything else - how the solar gigafactory is finally starting consumer sales, the huge boom in energy orders, the half billion or so they're going to get from deposits on the Y, etc, etc - Tesla's cash burn is all but over in Q3, and they're profitable in Q4. And even in Q2, their burn is heavily slashed from Q4/Q1.

      And this is just the start of reasons I could go into as to why this "bankwupcy" thing is nonsense; there's about a dozen more. The shorts, strangely enough, always only develop their hindsight in the rearview mirror. To them, Tesla is always bankrupt in six months. Last summer, Tesla was going bankrupt this winter. Last fall, they were going bankrupt this spring. This winter, the bankruptcy was scheduled for summer. Here we are in the fall sweeps. Well, sorry to rain on the parade, but their predictive ability is worth squat. They keep pointing to reasons that Tesla did better than they expected, and it's always, "Well, of course they could do that, but they can't do it again, so now they're doomed!". Yeah? Well where were you pointing out what they could do? They were just off screaming "Bankrupt!" to their Seeking Alpha echo chamber, only developing their "foresight" after the fact. It's like listening to the Nostradamus crowd insisting that he predicted the 11 September attacks - if the predictions were so great, where were you on 10 September?

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    7. Re:It's not trivial by vtcodger · · Score: 4, Informative

      "See, the obsession is that investors have dumped BILLIONS into Tesla and it has been lost - yes, LOST - period."

      The money hasn't been lost yet, but Tesla is burning through it's cash at a stunning rate. It looks to be a crapshoot as to whether Tesla will end this year flying high, dead broke, or struggling off into the future having sold off much of whatever it has in the way of marketable assets. See https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/3...

      Moody's downgraded Tesla's credit rating to "Negative" a few weeks ago. That's not good.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    8. Re:It's not trivial by Rei · · Score: 1

      Oh, and speaking of margins. A majority of buyers get Autopilot ($5k). A minority get FSD ($3k). Software margins are huge, as in over 95%. Let's just say that Tesla made *no* profit at all on a $35k car and someone added AP. The car instantaneously has a 14% profit margin, just from that one option. Let alone premium interiors, dual motor, air suspension, long-range pack, performance package, 18"/20" wheels, paint options, etc, etc - just that one option alone can turn a zero-margin car into a 14% margin car.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    9. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There margins are negative. They lose money on every car they make.

    10. Re: It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I absolutely trust anyone who doesn't know the difference between there, their, and they're.

    11. Re:It's not trivial by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      FSD doesn't exist yet. They need to write the software and do any upgrades necessary on the cars for less than $3k per customer. Good luck with that.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    12. Re:It's not trivial by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I am not saying Tesla is this or that but history of at least relatively modern economy shows that every major breakthrough failed economically. This happened to both great canals in Egypt and in Panama and with few other endeavors - railways in few places did that i.e.burning the investors' money, too. Whether this is going to be a great success or not is still in the future. The guy sis a genius whether he succeeds or not. At least he is trying which is the only known method of getting things done.

    13. Re:It's not trivial by jeremyp · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If it weren't for the massive injections of credulous investors' cash, Tesla would already be bankrupt. The problem with the model 3 production line is not "can they get it up to capacity" but "can they get it up to capacity in time". All the while they are not profitable, they are accruing debt and that debt is getting more and more expensive (because their credit rating is getting downgraded). It may get to the point that Tesla cannot increase production of the model 3 fast enough to produce the required profit per car to service their debt.

      Then the FSD issue might become a millstone. What if they can't do FSD without expensive upgrades that have been promised for free? What if people start taking legal action because FSD hasn't arrived or the advertising is deemed fraudulent.

      Don't buy Tesla stock right now unless you are up for high risk investments.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    14. Re: It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you know what VW has that Tesla doesn't?

      Many, many profitable quarters.

      You know what VW has that Tesla doesn't? An example of epic-scale emissions fraud on its balance books.

      (My fucking god, whataboutism is the worst fucking form of argument, )

      If you were legitimately concerned about the discussion, you'd start at the originator, and challenge its falsehoods, however, I see no evidence of you attempting to do so, thus you are actually engaging in a worser form of argument, which is to say, the pretentious debate by fallacy, so even if I were to credit you with some integrity, you'd still be failing to improve the tenor of discourse yourself.

    15. Re:It's not trivial by Rei · · Score: 1

      If it weren't for the massive injections of credulous investors' cash, Tesla would already be bankrupt

      Wow, if investors didn't invest in a company, it would have no money? Imagine that.

      BTW, we're going to be having a meeting of the Tautology Club next week, if you want to join us; it will be the first time that the Tautology Club meets.

      "can they get it up to capacity in time"

      See the post you're replying to.

      they are accruing debt

      Wrong. Tesla's debt is relatively stable. You're confusing cash with debt.

      For Tesla to run out of cash, they have to literally not get the Model 3 profitable and up to significant numbers by next spring, and do nothing else financially to prevent it (e.g. eliminating R&D/capex, more asset-backed securities, etc, etc). And that's simply not going to happen. Even a miss on the Q2 target will put the line up to near its design spec by the end of this quarter.

      What if they can't do FSD without expensive upgrades that have been promised for free?

      Then they got a $3k interest-free loan, which they have to in part pay back later for the new hardware or refund. With no hard date on when the "loan" needs to be paid back.

      And the wording concerning self driving is, and I quote:

      "Self-Driving, where permitted by regulatory approval, will ultimately take you from home to work and find a parking space for you on its own."

      In the future, Model 3 will be capable of conducting trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.

      This feature is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary by jurisdiction

      Good luck to whatever lawyer is tasked with arguing that Tesla had actually promised some specific date. Also good luck with arguing that Musk isn't sincerely a massive believer that super-capable AI for things like self-driving is right around the corner.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    16. Re:It's not trivial by Rei · · Score: 1

      And yet, the cash for FSD very much does exist. I think people are stupid for putting down money on FSD, but some people actually are. A nice interest-free loan for Tesla, on an option that has more than enough weasel wording in its description to insulate them from any liability for not delivering in the remotely near future.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    17. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That loan will be paid back in a class action law suit. Auto pilot has already murdered three people and the body count will only rise.

    18. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, let's put or skeptic's hat on. Let's say that Musk is wrong about 5-6k/wk at the end of this quarter. Let's say they only do 4k at the end of this quarter

      Hey, let's put or skeptic's hat on. Let's say that Musk is wrong about 5-6k/wk at the end of this quarter. Let's say they only do 1k/wk of all models ever...

      Tesla has NEVER made more than ~1k/wk of ALL models, to claim Tesla can make 6k/wk of one model alone is Rei-cocksucker tier shillage isn't it?
      Hey wait a minute, your ARE Rei...

    19. Re: It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VW may shut down one factory, but they have more than one, and manufacture more vehicles in a year than Musk's workshop has done throughout its "glorious" history. So, nobody cares if one factory has a minor problem.

      You also didn't care when VW had shutdowns in 2015,2016 or 2017, at Wolfsburg, Dresden, Bratislava, or other plants.

      Mysterious that.

      But when your ONLY factory is done for when you're already years behind your own schedule, that's just ridiculous.

      But it's not done for. It's a routine, minor readjustment.

      Double so when all your "ventures" are mostly government funded.

      Like VW? Not to mention GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, and...

      And it turns out VW was cheating on Emissions tests on a scale that dwarfs anything Musk might have done too.

    20. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you realize how dumb you sound when you talk about people who die in car crashes being 'murdered'?

    21. Re:It's not trivial by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, even with the delays, Tesla made their first 10000 Model 3s in less time than it took GM to make their first 1000 Bolts, from the start of tooling

      Maybe that's because GM knows how to bring a car into production.

      In 2017 GM made over 22,000 Bolts, meanwhile Tesla has only made a total of just over 17,000 Model 3's to date. GM is crushing Tesla.

    22. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla has NEVER made more than ~1k/wk of ALL models

      Are you from the past? It is public record that Tesla produced and sold 76,297 vehicles in 2016 and 103,181 in 2017. Last I checked, 103,000 / 52 > 1,000.

      Anyways, when you get back to 2015 can you warn everyone about Trump? It's kind of important.

    23. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla knowingly sold a defective system. That’s murder.

    24. Re: It's not trivial by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      When you sell 10.7 million cars a year, you probably know WHEN and WHY to take a single line (out of hundreds) down for 2 weeks... Consider that all Teslas sold to date - since inception - are less than 3% of what VW did last year. Yeah, there's a reason VW can pull a line down for a few weeks for rebuild/repair - they actually wear stuff out from producing 1 car every 3 seconds.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    25. Re:It's not trivial by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      But then, when you have a loss of money on every car, you have to talk about something else to make it look not as bad as a 20% annual loss...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    26. Re:It's not trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      103,000 / 52 > 1,000

      Good job Rei, just checking if you were paying attention.
      Roll in Europe & other sales.
      So Tesla claims to ramp production from 2k/wk to (2+6=)8k/wk within one quarter.
      I think Musk's ejaculants you guzzled down has crossed your blood-brain barrier to detrimental effects.

  5. Short sellers by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Tesla is the most shorted company right now.

    The problem with the situation is that most investors *want* Tesla to fail so that they can make money from the short sales.

    OTOH, Elon Musk is aware of the shorts and tends to do something to prop up the stock price whenever it drops a little. Like announcing a new model or a new production goal. (The production goals are never met, but the announcements make the stock tick up a couple of percent.)

    So right now we're awash in bear market opinions, and many suggestive (but worthless) statements keep making the rounds such as:

    "Tesla has never made a profit"
    "Tesla loses money on every car they sell"
    "Tesla only survives due to government handouts"
    "Tesla is so far behind that some people will get their cars $SOMENUMBER years from now"
    "Tesla is burning through cash, will be bankrupt in $NUM months"
    "Musk is a serial liar"

    Those are the highlights - have I missed any?

    To analyze #4 as an example ("burning through cash"), note that this is something the CFO and CEO keep track of and anticipate, and are responsible for raising more cash before the bankruptcy actually happens. Also, specifically Tesla predicts that they won't need another round of financing, but that option is certainly open if they need it.

    It's nigh impossible to get an accurate assessment of Tesla's worth right now, due to corruption in reporting.

    Tesla expects to turn a profit for the first time later this year. Their stock will probably skyrocket when that happens.

    1. Re:Short sellers by es330td · · Score: 1

      Also, specifically Tesla predicts that they won't need another round of financing, but that option is certainly open if they need it.

      Musk had to say this. The cash burn at Tesla is factual and well known so any shareholder rightly cares if Tesla can pay its bills. When a company doesn't make a profit the only way to keep the doors open are borrowing or selling shares. Tesla's long term debt currently trades at a substantial discount to face value so the bond markets are saying they don't believe the hype and don't really want to lend to Tesla. If Tesla can't borrow then they have to sell shares. At depressed stock prices, any meaningful sale of stock is going to be dilutive to current shareholders. If current shareholders think this will happen, they will dump shares further depressing the price and requiring even more shares be sold to raise money.

      The only option Musk had was to say things are fine because if they aren't then Tesla is done.

    2. Re:Short sellers by AlanObject · · Score: 2

      "Tesla loses money on every car they sell" "Tesla only survives due to government handouts"

      I have always wondered about these arguments. I haven't looked at Tesla's P&L recently (in spite of being a stockholder) but I was under the impression that they are plowing tons of money into R&D.

      So if they wanted to suddenly be profitable all they would have to do is stop spending on R&D. Just bank the gross profit they get off of selling their existing product which is heavily in demand.

      So what would their stock be worth if they did that?

    3. Re:Short sellers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the guy that works at Tesla

    4. Re:Short sellers by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Found the guy that works at Tesla

      Or has invested in them :D

    5. Re:Short sellers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What "R&D" are they "plowing money into"? Teslas are a large Panasonic-made battery with four electric motors, some simple circuitry to drive them, and a big screen. How many untold billions you need for that? The slashdot musk fans with 7-digit IDs are truly idiots...

    6. Re:Short sellers by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      You fail to mention that shorts also articificial reduce a companies share price, however the problem with shorts is that if people push up the price to a certain point those shorts are forced to buy the stock at a much higher price than they sold it for. Shorts are also most often leverage, so they pay around 10% of the value of the shares they short and of course if shares prices go 10% higher than the price they pretended to sell at, the finacing broker forces them to buy at the new much higher price to cover the shares they pretended to sell and the fiscal pain can be quite bankrupting.

      When you load up too many shorts, the bankster can gang up on you pump up the share price and wipe you out and the more shorts, the much greater the fiscal drive to do so. They Tesla price clung in there for so long with all those shorts is a pretty solid warning that the banksters are set to wipe out a bunch of people (you have to wander whether or not they set up the trap in the first place, betting both ways).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:Short sellers by Rei · · Score: 2

      I was under the impression that they are plowing tons of money into R&D.

      They are. About 1 1/2 billion per year. Versus their Q4 loss of under $600M. Their SG&A is also scaled up in advance of the 3 rollout, since you can't magic that into existence the instant production increases. Tesla has big capex also. Interestingly, there are clear signs that Tesla is increasing (or preparing to increase) capex. They're currently relocating the Gigafactory parking lot (first step to expand the building) and bidding on more property near Fremont, for example.

      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
    8. Re: Short sellers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the same guy saying the same thing about Amazon five years ago.

      Do you ever get tired of being totally fucking wrong literally all the time?

    9. Re:Short sellers by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Tesla's stock is massively overpriced given its current revenue and production. That's not talking down the price , it is stating a fact.

      General Motors has revenue of about $148 billion and a market cap. of around $40 billion

      Tesla has revenue of $12 billion and market cap. of about $50 billion.

      Neither company makes a net profit, however Tesla is apparently worthy more in spite of have less than a tenth of the income. It's overpriced.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    10. Re:Short sellers by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Elon Musk is aware of the shorts and tends to do something to prop up the stock price whenever it drops a little.

      Alternatively, if Tesla wasn't going to need to issue more stock for cash any time soon, he could just let the shorts happen and then buy more shares at a lower price. If he believed in Tesla that is.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    11. Re:Short sellers by fozzy1015 · · Score: 1

      Neither company makes a net profit, however Tesla is apparently worthy more in spite of have less than a tenth of the income. It's overpriced.

      Huh? GM's EPS is $5.15 and at its current share price pays a dividend with a 3.87% yield. Tesla has the dubious honor of increasing its losses per share even as share dilution increases.

    12. Re:Short sellers by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      The problem with the situation is that most investors *want* Tesla to fail so that they can make money from the short sales.

      Most investors want to make money, long or short. If they thought they could make the most money by going long on Tesla, there's no reason they wouldn't. But the fundamentals point to going short being the better move, so they're selling it short - not out of spite, but out of analysis.

    13. Re: Short sellers by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      virtual upvote this.

    14. Re:Short sellers by Catbeller · · Score: 2

      Cash burn is utterly irrelevant. Tesla can't go broke, so it can't go bankrupt. They've a half million cars on order at at least 50K each. That's 25 billion in gross sales, and that's *past* orders. Present orders are being held back because they can't make cars fast enough to immediately deliver.

      At 25 billion coming in, they have all the lines of credit and investor interest they will ever want.

      China just let them own their own factory there. That's...enormous news.

      Cash burn is a concern if you can't pay your bills, make product, or invest in plant. Tesla does all of that. This is cost accounting 101. They will sink money in plant - not "burn money" - and operations, one of which is an asset and the other manufacturing the product. Nothing is "burnt". The money is being converted into other kinds of asset.

      A corporation is not a Duncan Donuts franchise. It doesn't have to make cash surplus to fund the owner's new marriage. It just keeps going, growing, adding capability. Tesla is cars. Virtual power plants. Powerwalls. Rooftop solar. Solar power plants. A giant charging network for its cars. It has the best and cheapest batteries on earth and go that way by spending money on R&D and plant. Tesla is ten years ahead of everyone else and will stay that way.

    15. Re:Short sellers by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Oh, gawd damn it. 2 and a half billion. Do not use your head for a calculator. Still, that's conservative. Call it 3-4 billion because most of those cars will cost more than 50K.

    16. Re:Short sellers by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Well now, in Rei's defense, a $900 million loss on $11 billion in revenue is only an 8% negative margin, so not ALL is bad. It's only losing a ton of money, not a shit-ton of money... Not bad for a car company with a higher book value than Ford, even though Ford actually makes a profit ($2.4 billion annually) - and returns a 5.3% dividend!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  6. Uh, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When most big automotive companies start regular production, they don't stop unless something is *really* screwed up. First, you do one-offs with the manufacturing engineers watching everything. Then you do a run of engineering samples that get pulled apart to make sure the line is running properly. Then you do a run of pre-production vehicles that usually get sent out for destructive testing. THEN, when all the bugs and kinds are worked out and the end product is thoroughly QA'd, you start regular production AND YOU DON'T STOP.

    There are regularly scheduled shutdowns for plant maintenance and line switch-overs (usually in July) but they aren't shutting a brand new, high-demand production line after three quarters of relatively light production for maintenance, even (and especially) for a new model.

    1. Re: Uh, what? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Yet we hear that the ancient car companies can't improve because their lines are so inflexible. That's at least something that Tesla has promised to avoid.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re: Uh, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet we hear that the ancient car companies can't improve because their lines are so inflexible. That's at least something that Tesla has promised to avoid.

      Where did you hear that? Any car company can shut down a line and make changes. The problems with that are:

      1. It costs a *lot* of money. You have a factory's worth of union workers who are contracted to get paid whether the line is running or not. As we have learned before, paying people to not produce anything usually leads to bankruptcy. I understand Tesla doesn't have this problem as it's employees aren't union, but that can change.

      2. Every manufacturing-side change you make can effect the final product in ways you can't predict. That's why most car companies spend so much time on pre-production - you want to iron out manufacturing defects early, then do a complete QA soak on the final product to make sure any pre-production changes you make don't wreck something else down the line. Do you think Tesla is going to do a complete QA cycle on the end product after a mid-production manufacturing change? It's either gong to cost a lot for QA, or they are going to roll the dice and hope that the change doesn't break anything non-obvious (and potentially fatal.)

      As for mid-production product change, that's potentially worse than a manufacturing change, as you now have to let all your service centers know that the 2018.2 model is different than a 2018.1 model, what those changes are and, potentially, new parts you are going to need to service those changes. One change per year is bad enough - I can't imagine what having to support multiple changes per year is like.

    3. Re: Uh, what? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Mostly you are spot-on. However:

      As for mid-production product change, that's potentially worse than a manufacturing change, as you now have to let all your service centers know that the 2018.2 model is different than a 2018.1 model, what those changes are and, potentially, new parts you are going to need to service those changes.

      While this stuff is technically true, Tesla has few service centers, and they are light-years ahead of other car companies in all other respects in regards to software — I'd bet their service documentation software is at least as good as anyone else's. To wit, when you insert the VIN into the software, it retrieves model- and vehicle-specific information from the main office. If a vehicle hasn't had a service recall, that will show up. When you look up parts, the numbers returned are specific to the model. The complete list of included options is retrieved. The service manual may even automatically hide sections which do not apply to the model being serviced.

      Anyway, this is all a long-winded way of saying that none of that stuff impacts Tesla as much as anyone else; at least not at this point, but probably going forward as well. They may not have as much competence building vehicles (clearly) but they do seem to have more competence with software.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Lost. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The money hasn't been lost yet, ....

    Yes, the money has been lost. Salaries, utilities, day to day expenses, insurance, etc .....

    That money is all gone - forever.

    The money spent on CAPEX, although in tangible assets, won't be worth that much when the company goes bust.

    Cite: Every goddamn cash flow statement for the last 15 years. See the huge NEGATIVE number "Cash Flows from operations"

    LOST.

    You need to learn how to read a financial statement and understand what the numbers mean.

    And don't cite CNBC because they all have shit for brains. The Economist, Bloomberg, WSJ (for financial subjects only) are valid sources.

    1. Re:Lost. by Rei · · Score: 1
      --
      I will pull over this spaceship right now!
  8. Absolutely correct by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Found the guy that works at Tesla

    Or has invested in them :D

    Fair point: I am invested in Tesla.

  9. Robots by fozzy1015 · · Score: 1

    They must need to shut shut down the line to let those robots cool off from that air friction!

  10. ROFLMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Shutdown production because the waiting list is too long? Wow, that will make things even better. Another Obamanation moment brought to you by Millennials, born without a clue.

    1. Re:ROFLMAO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really /.? No more content than an LOL and a jab at the totally unrelated topics of an ex-president and an entire generation of people with no discernible purpose for the jabs other than "being a dick" and this gets modded up? Cool.

  11. Translation by tomhath · · Score: 0

    the shutdown is intended to resolve some of the problems that have contributed to the numerous delays

    Translation: They put everything they had into the last couple of weeks in the first quarter to make the numbers look less bad. Now they're out of parts.