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ZTE Exports Ban May Mean No Google Apps, a Death Sentence For Its Smartphones (arstechnica.com)
New submitter krazy1 shares a report from Ars Technica: The U.S. government is going after another Chinese Android device maker. After shutting down Huawei's carrier deals and retail partners, the government is now pursuing ZTE. The U.S. Department of Commerce has banned U.S. companies from selling parts and software to ZTE for seven years. ZTE was caught violating U.S. sanctions by illegally shipping telecommunications equipment to Iran and North Korea. The company then made things worse by "making false statements and obstructing justice, including through preventing disclosure to and affirmatively misleading the U.S. Government," according to the Department of Commerce.
The latest news from Reuters raises even bigger issues for ZTE, though. A source told Reuters that "The Commerce Department decision means ZTE Corp may not be able to use Google's Android operating system in its mobile devices." Android is free and open source and will probably remain free for ZTE to use without Google's involvement. Reuters' source is probably referring to the Google apps, which aren't sold to device makers but are carefully licensed to them in exchange for other concessions. The Google apps package includes popular services like Gmail and Google Maps, and it also unlocks the Play Store, Google Play Services, and the entire Android app ecosystem. For a market-viable Android device, the Play Store is pretty much mandatory in every country other than China. So while ZTE could conceivably source hardware components from non-U.S. sources, being locked out of the Play Store would devastate ZTE's smartphones worldwide.
The latest news from Reuters raises even bigger issues for ZTE, though. A source told Reuters that "The Commerce Department decision means ZTE Corp may not be able to use Google's Android operating system in its mobile devices." Android is free and open source and will probably remain free for ZTE to use without Google's involvement. Reuters' source is probably referring to the Google apps, which aren't sold to device makers but are carefully licensed to them in exchange for other concessions. The Google apps package includes popular services like Gmail and Google Maps, and it also unlocks the Play Store, Google Play Services, and the entire Android app ecosystem. For a market-viable Android device, the Play Store is pretty much mandatory in every country other than China. So while ZTE could conceivably source hardware components from non-U.S. sources, being locked out of the Play Store would devastate ZTE's smartphones worldwide.
Cool, I guess.. Though I would have used to on other companies first.
In the EU, sure, the Google Play store is gonna be expected. However, I imagine there are scores of 3rd-world countries where most buyers never touch the Google Play store, and only run pirated apps via sideloading or sketchy 3rd-party stores (ya know, the ones filled to bursting with malware.) Remember back in the days of feature phones, when every carrier had their own software shop? ZTE could roll their own; it could have a few big names so they can say "we have X!", but otherwise be a ghost town.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
... and whether you agree with them or not they broke them. If you want to trade with the US you don't break US sanctions, its pretty clear, and lying on top of it was just the cherry on the cake. Serves them right frankly.
No Google Apps, a Death Sentence For Its Smartphones
Seriously?
Where can I get a phone that is sentenced to death? I sure as hell wish I could easily replace the too-instrusive and never asked for Google junk for better alternatives. And tell my mom how to do it for her phone as well.
I mean yes, I know that there is lineage OS, but that is not exactly mom-friendly. And installing F-droid is easy, but removing the Google junk is not. And every Android update brings more unwanted Google junk.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
I think the Chinese market is large enough to support a few major telecom equipment makers through domestic sales. Enough western companies are making huge concessions to be allowed to sell there.
So I guess if there is not already a flourishing market for non-Android phones, there will be one eventually. There goes one source of revenue from exports to China. In short, the Chinese can make do without us.
C - the footgun of programming languages
they keep using android, and just add their own store, which just copies over all the apk's from the google play store and done.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
The Lifeline program was established by the Reagan Administration in 1985 to provide discounted phone services to low-income Americans. The program was expanded by the George W. Bush Administration in 2005 to include wireless services. Typically, these involve a modest prepaid service requiring no deposit, which includes a free cell phone, free minutes, and free texting. This program provides a basic need that many low-income individuals would not have access to otherwise.
In 2015 there were 12.6 million households enrolled in the program, most of them on Safelink, part of Tracfone.
Guess what brand phone they give out?
yup, ZTE
Soylent green is poor people!
As crude as you put it, you put your finger on it. (so to speak).
Seems like three alternatives might be possible
1. this is could be the day when china forks android, bases it on red star linux, and comes out with an embedded ChinaOS ending the Alphabet hegemony.
2. NVidia fills the gap. Less likely, Tizen or firefox.
3. ZTE just sells it's assets to a buyer, either an existing cell maker or to a start-up. and then continues making phones. only thing that dies is the corporate name.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I suppose china might reply in kind.
1. Stop allowing exports of parts from foxcon to the USA.
2. End export of computer components to any company that sells to google unless they open source their entire OS.
that would tank the US stock market.
Food fight!
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The US government absolutely gets to decided what countries a Chinese company can sell products to that contain *US* parts. If ZTE didn't like that they should not have used US parts then they would be free to export to whoever they liked, subject to other similar export restrictions.
... and ZTE moves to Sailfish OS as a fallback and we finally get more than one iteration of relyable non-Gooapple Touchscreen Smartphones. That would be so cool. Lineage is neat, but I would rather use Sailfish and some Phone that officially uses it. And not just as a side-project.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
In this case, the restrictions are on US companies.
It's no good having an embargo on Iran and North Korea, and then have it so you can sell to an intermediary that sells to Iran and North Korea. ZTE can do what they want, but if they do, US suppliers can't supply them.
Foxcon may have it's headquarters in Taiwan but it manufactures and ships from PRC. So China has control of Foxcon exports and it's just gravy if Taiwan is forced to align itself with china against the US.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Absolutely. Only problem is ZTE won't be able to make a phone to sell in Europe, so it won't impact anyone there.
ZTE relies too much of its products on US technologies
Unlike Huawei, which has made its own version of ARM chips, ZTE has none
Plus, ZTE relies too much on components from US companies, from antennas to chips and such
What has happened to ZTE is a reminder for everyone else --- do not base your products on US companies' products, or you might be meeting the same fate as that of ZTE
I suspect that lesson will be well learned by all companies outside the U. S. of A., and it gonna push China to re-double its efforts into developing a full spectrum of technologies to rival that of the United States (or that from anybody else)
End result is that China might become even stronger, and products from US companies might have fewer buyers
Stop watching T.V., it is bad for you.
When other Chinese companies run afoul of their customers, they just pack up shop and re-incorporate under a different name, and then sell the same damn thing again. What's to keep ZTE from doing this?
I got my kids some ZTE ZMax Pro. These have been great phones. Decent screens, and fair amount of memory for a $179 phone. Best of all, USB Type-C which means I am not needing to buy replacement charging cables for my kids every two months. Way faster charging, way way way more durable.
Zero problems... which when you have 6-10 year olds using regularly, is pretty darn amazing.
In this case, the restrictions are on US companies.
This.
Time for everyone to pack their bags and move their corporate home to Ireland.
Have gnu, will travel.
there is no legal way to download the Google Play Store and there is no legal way to download the google apps outside the Play Store.
There no legal ways to download those, yes.
There's a bout a gazillion of (illegal under US law) ways to download those.
Those ways are illegal in the US, but are very unlikely to be illegal in any country (like China) that doesn't give much fucks about anything intellectual-property-related (like copyrights, in this case).
An URL that links to some Chinese website hosting APKs for the above software and sideloads them is all about it takes.
Some custom ROMs ship with the google apps, which is illegal, but Google turns a blind eye on this practice. This will not be the case with ZTE.
But unlike the custom ROMs, ZTE's solution could be hosted outside of any legal reach from google.
A sideloadable APK hosted on a service located in a jurisdiction where Google is unable to file a complaint is all it takes.
And that's completely ignoring legal alternatives like Micro G - an opensource re-implementation of the services that Google provides in closed blobs. (And all the various APK downloaders that could then be used to side-load apps that normally are only hosted on Google Play)
(But let's be serious, ZTE is more likely to take the pirate route and provide an "otherwise considered illegal in the US" installation option of the real Google deal, than to take the route of financially support microG developers and maintain legally compatible services)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
If back doors in general are a concern to you, and you cannot fully ensure their absence, it would make sense to have them "with" the entity least likely to create problems for you.
For instance, if you live in the western world, a back door for Chinese intelligence services might be less of a problem than one for the NSA. Because even if the Chinese know your darkest secrets, how likely do you think it is they will share with your local law enforcement?
C - the footgun of programming languages
Screwing over the US economy would only end up meaning that China would never be paid back the debt owed by the US. I don't think they want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Sigh... That's not how it works. China holds treasury bonds which are readily sold in the open market unless you hold them to term. China can sell them on any bond exchange in the world or directly to third parties any time they want and there isn't a damn thing the US can do about it. The only problem really is finding buyers for that many bonds. Furthermore it would be absolutely insane of the US to try to not repay their debt. The value of the US dollar rests on the belief that the US (like a Lanister) always repays its debts.
Tax Cut and Spend all the Way!!!! GOP 2018!
Sanctions with actual teeth is why North Korea is in the process of negotiating denuclearization. Supply NK, get the Corporate Death Sentence.
ANYONE who even thinks of challenging the stranglehold in the USA, gets taken down one way or another. Look what happened to Huawei, now ZTE. If I were a lot of these manufacturers, I wouldn't even bother trying to break into the USA market. Bunch of fools in the USA think you HAVE to buy a phone from a carrier store, which means you are pushed toward the apple/samsung brands. Oh, but they offer zero down, zero interest!!! Yeah, they got rid of the 2 year phone contract, now lock you into the no money down no interest (unless you pay off the phone early) 2 year contract. Then tag you for this fee, that fee, etc...jacking up your bill. There is a whole world of great phones out there, but, unless you search them out, pay full retail (sometimes you can get 2 for the price of the iphone/samsung stuff), you'll never hear of them. Oh, but they spy on users bla bla bla. Gee, you don't think Apple, Samsung, the CIA, FBI, NSA etc...don't?
ZTE sells the company under a rebadged name, and they don't have a problem as long as major ZTE shareholders don't control the new company
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Just as well. My ZTE smartphone ignores my settings anyway.
The more notifications and auto-whatever settings I disable, the MORE start running!
Now I have to turn my cell phone off when I sleep because I keep getting these STUPID notifications about stuff I disabled; thinking it is an emergency call!
W T F ? ! ? ! ?
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.