Eventbrite Claims The Right To Film Your Events -- And Keep the Copyright (eventbrite.com)

Eventbrite lets you sell tickets online for your events. An anonymous reader reports on Eventbrite's newly-updated merchant agreement. The merchant agreement specifies that you "grant permission to Eventbrite and its agents to enter onto and remain on the premises (including real property, fixtures, equipment, or other personal property) where your event is hosted...with personnel and equipment for the purpose of photographing and recording the Premises, both internally and externally in connection with the production of digital content on the date of your event(s) and any other dates reasonably requested by Eventbrite (for example, during setup and breakdown for the event) (the 'Shoot')."

But in addition, you're also granting them permission to record and use footage of all your attendees and speakers, "in any manner, in any medium or context now known or hereafter developed, without further authorization from, or compensation to." And after that Eventbrite "will own all rights of every nature whatsoever in and to all films and photographs taken and recordings made hereunder, including without limitation of all copyrights therein and renewals and extensions thereof, and the exclusive right to use and exploit the Recordings in any manner, in any medium or context now known or hereafter developed..." You're even responsible for obtaining all the clearances and licenses "necessary to secure Eventbrite the permissions and rights described above," and you also release Eventbrite from any claims that may arise regarding use of the Recordings, "including, without limitation, any claims of defamation, invasion of privacy, or infringement of rights of likeness, publicity or copyright."
"So, yeah. No," tweeted Ars Technica's national security editor. "Eventbrite is now off my list for recommended event organizing tools."

UPDATE (4/23/18): "Facing a backlash to the new language, Eventbrite pulled the section from the Agreement's text on Sunday afternoon," reports Ars Technica.

Comments

So what is the purpose of this?

[Elfich47]

Do they plan on putting this on Youtube and attempting to monetize it? I don't even want to think about the issues involved if their cameras pick up a copyrighted video is shown at one of their events. The copyright nightmare would keep the lawyers in boat payments for years.

What is the end game for this? Or is some lawyer just getting over reaching and assuming someone isn't going to read the fine print?

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the short to medium term use would be to advertise their own service to more people. They could show pictures and videos on their website, apps, and advertisements of past Everbrite events that look fun, exciting, and high class, with a bunch of beautiful people doing unique things in unique environments. It's the same reason beer companies used to have advertisements featuring party dogs on beaches with skimpily clad beautiful women running around flirting with average and below-average looking guys. I mean, people kind of knew switching to that beer company wasn't going to automatically turn their living room into a beach, their dog into a party dog, and their wife and/or blowup doll into a supermodel, but, subconsciously, they liked the association. ;) Similarly, this isn't going to turn your basement get together of a few average people with some generic pretzels and ginger-ale around a small television into a party at an upscale hotel with models and steak and champagne and whatever, but subconsciously, some people will like the association.

Added to that is the less likely but possible scenario where they actually get footage of a celebrity at a party, or someone who is not now a celebrity, but who becomes a celebrity, at a party, on tape, and then can use *that* in their advertisements, implying an endorsement or an association of sorts (Just not to the degree where it would become a legal issue, they might have to print a disclaimer in small print).

I think millennials and Generation Z (The generation after the millenials- the press has been using the generation z modifker as a placeholder to talk about them until they can think of something better because Generation X was followed by Millenials, who could have been Generation Y, and thus Generation Z- It's sort of like Ubuntu. ;) ) tend not to mind this kind of stuff. Privacy as it used to be understood is largely an outdated concept to them. However, this is going way too far for most people 35 and up. And I would think even young people might think twice about terms and conditions this extreme- it's not quite where people are at *yet*. Maybe in 5 or 10 years.

Also, I'll admit, I haven't checked out this company (Or read the article *hangs head in shame*), but the summary makes it sound like it's just a service to get people invites and keep track of who has agreed to come, who has said they definitely won't come, and who might come. Aren't there a zillion companies on the Internet that already do that, at only the privacy cost of handing them your email contact list and letting them know the details of your party and who is attending when? Why would you use a company that invites themselves in to eat your food and film everything for their own commercial purposes when their competition doesn't? Does Everbrite have their representatives bring some alcoholic beverages and snacks or something? Does the company promise that their employees will be attractive and show up and make your party look like it's more "happening" than the six people you know would by themselves? What's the advantage over Google Invites or whatever it's called (And similar companies) that might cause people to be willing to sell the "rights" to their party off and allow the reps into their home?

This sounds like a non-starter unless Everbrite is able to bring some sort of "value added" to the table- food, beverages, venues, entertainment, etc.. Maybe they could agree to send a DJ for parties with a certain number of RSVPs?

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[Dutch Gun]

Or is some lawyer just getting over reaching and assuming someone isn't going to read the fine print?

Yeah, probably just an over-reaching lawyer, with the attitude "hey, let's just grab ALL the rights while we're at it - just in case we need them" My guess is that they originally wanted to be able to use the media for advertisement or self-promotion, but got ridiculously greedy and over-reaching with the language.

You'll probably see an explanation from the company president for this language, and a shortly after a severe narrowing of the language to make it more reasonable, or clear what the intent is.

My heavens, who'd have thought anyone would actually READ all that legalese, huh?

Re: So what is the purpose of this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I'll wait until the movie version comes out

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[mysidia]

I have no idea, but it just wouldn't fly.... If I was holding event, there would be absolutely NO WAY IN HELL representatives of Eventbrite itself would be allowed access to the venue or to setup cameras; On-Site security would address anyone trying to come in with a Camera and ask them to leave, and if they refuse the police would be called, and they'd find themself in a jail cell for trespass.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess the legal question comes down to the remedy. Did you pay eventbrite for their service? If you block access what can they sue you for. They won't have any footage of the event to sell, and therefore no copyrights. What could they get out of it? I suppose they could block your access to their service, but does that matter?

Re: So what is the purpose of this?

[thevirtualcat]

I guarantee you it's a non-starter among us millennials, too.

Privacy concerns aside, the potential liability associated with using Eventbrite just went into the stratosphere.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[iamhassi]

Do they plan on putting this on Youtube and attempting to monetize it?

I know Eventbrite was used to sell tickets to a New Years Eve party with a famous band a few years back so yeah, they could probably monetize the content.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand what they offer that is such a big deal. It's easy as fuck to create and sell your own tickets online. You setup a web site that accepts payment and issues a unique number to each person who pays. They bring that number, either printed or written down, it gets input into a computer at the door and invalidated so that nobody else can reuse it.

It's fucking not difficult to do.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Probably overreaching lawyers, yes. Also, Everbrite might fancy themselves as possibly able to leverage that into an experience recording/selling outfit, like when you go on a cruise and get offered a DVD of "your" great memories.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[michelcolman]

Strategy #1: "We want to display pictures of your event on our site without asking"
Reaction: "That's outrageous, you can't use our event do do promotion for your company!"

Strategy #2: "We want all rights to everything"
Reaction: "That's outrageous, you can't... (etc.)"
Update: "We made a mistake, obviously that was not our intention, we will update the phraseology, we just want to display pictures of your event on our site"
Reaction: "Ah, that's OK then".

Strategy #1 is to be avoided, #2 always works.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[stephanruby]

An overreaching lawyer or an overreaching CEO, it doesn't matter to me who it is.

That person needs to be fired.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[tlhIngan]

I know Eventbrite was used to sell tickets to a New Years Eve party with a famous band a few years back so yeah, they could probably monetize the content.

Yeah, and now, they're not going to get any of this. One store I know uses eventbrite, and they use it to give out free tickets to participating events. E.g., they offered free basic instrument lessons over lunch. Sure, Eventbrite can go and film a bunch of no-talents learn to play the ukelele. I'm sure YouTube could use more of that.

Another time they used it to reserve slots for a session on pianos. I attended (there were only 2 people who registered). I'm sure they could make money filming me ask stupid questions about pianos. At the very least, I got to ask stupid questions and get educated. I don't have a piano, but now I know more about them. All I wanted to know but was afraid to ask.

I'm guessing that's really all they're going to get nowadays - events of participation and silly stuff.

I wonder what's going to happen if they have an event for 25 people and the room can only hold 30 due to things like fire regulations. The event organizer will ask for up to 25 participants because they know 30 is a safe number, but if the eventbrite people come, then it'll exceed that figure easily. Are they going to reduce the number of tickets they sell?

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[dwarfking]

I recall years ago when my kids were still in primary school, we received similar disclosures from the companies hired to do class pictures.

They claimed they owned the copyright on any pictures taken of our kids, we couldn't make our own copies and they could do what they wanted with the photos.

We declined and had our kids pictures taken instead at a local photographic studio without that crap.

Turned out one of the things they were doing with the school pictures was selling them to the stock-photo companies where they could be used in advertising.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[WallyL]

You could hang a row of A1 posters on that wall of text!

False! The parent poster used carriage returns appropriately to turn his text into paragraphs. As a minor grammar nazi, I approve the parent poster's grammar.

Re:So what is the purpose of this?

[tlhIngan]

I recall years ago when my kids were still in primary school, we received similar disclosures from the companies hired to do class pictures.

They claimed they owned the copyright on any pictures taken of our kids, we couldn't make our own copies and they could do what they wanted with the photos.

We declined and had our kids pictures taken instead at a local photographic studio without that crap.

Technically, according to copyright law, the photographer owns the copyright to the photos they take. So yes, they do own the copyright. And technically, since they do, they are free to do whatever they wish with those images.

It's why recording is often prohibited at concerts, plays, etc - because you, the recorder would own the copyright over the recording. The event organizer and venue obviously don't want you to sell your recording (because it's your copyright and you can do whatever you want with it) so they prohibit you from recording.

There is only one way around this, and that is "work for hire" in which case you would keep the copyright and not the photographer.

Hows that going to work?

[Anonymous Coward]

you may not own the rights - they are making you sign away - famous\semi famous people may own their images rights etc,

Re:Hows that going to work?

[jarkus4]

Part of this paragraph:
"You are responsible for obtaining, at your own cost, all third party permissions, clearances, and licenses necessary to secure Eventbrite the permissions and rights described above"

Re:Hows that going to work?

[dwywit]

That's just not going to work. Celebrity X turns up unannounced, (or, as mentioned above, there's something copyrightable in the background), gets filmed by Eventbrite. Unless the event promoter has a blanket clause in the ticket T&C covering this, Eventbrite *and* the promoter will likely lose the court case.

To satisfy Eventbrite, the promoter will have to get advance clearance from all rights holders. And if one or more don't agree to Eventbrite's terms? Either that item drops from the event, or Eventbrite doesn't get to sell the tickets. I know what I'd choose.

Re:Hows that going to work?

[fahrbot-bot]

Part of this paragraph: "You are responsible for obtaining, at your own cost, all third party permissions, clearances, and licenses necessary to secure Eventbrite the permissions and rights described above"

And if someone says no? Is their invitation acceptance and participation dependent upon their agreeing to sign a rights waiver? If not, you can't make someone sign away their rights.

In any case, I agree with Sean: "yeah, no".

Re:Hows that going to work?

[Subgenius]

This is very interesting. Their OTHER TOS does not match the one posted here:

TOS from the web site
https://www.eventbrite.com/sup...

TOS from Slashdot
https://www.eventbrite.com/sup...

I suppose the terms of service is different from the merchant agreement, except that there does seem to be SOME overlap....

Re:Hows that going to work?

[mysidia]

or Eventbrite doesn't get to sell the tickets. I know what I'd choose.

Sell "Eventbrite" tickets to the "Admission Desk" event. To gain access to the actual event, after being admitted to the Admission Desk event, You have to sign a document at the Admission Desk that contains legal language effectively Nullifying Eventbrite's agreement, then and only then will you be allowed to turn in your Eventbrite pass (That was good only for access up to the desk), and in exchange receive your "Main event Access Token", and the agreement you sign to get the Token and access PAST the second security gate promises Not to Record anything, and lays out a set of terms that Supercede any Prior agreement between the parties.

Re:Hows that going to work?

[dwywit]

That might just work. I like the way you think.

But I doubt Eventbrite would welcome you back for subsequent events.

Re:Hows that going to work?

[jarkus4]

Merchant agreement applies only to some. Parto of TOS:

"1.3 What Else. If you are an Organizer offering events with paid tickets, Eventbrite's Merchant Agreement and Organizer Refund Policy Requirements are also applicable to you."

Re:Hows that going to work?

[gnasher719]

Sell "Eventbrite" tickets to the "Admission Desk" event. To gain access to the actual event, after being admitted to the Admission Desk event, You have to sign a document at the Admission Desk that contains legal language effectively Nullifying Eventbrite's agreement,

That's stupid. If you find a proposed contract unacceptable, then you don't try to find workarounds (which is always dubious), you just refuse to accept the contract. Hurts them where it hurts them most.

Re:Hows that going to work?

[Lonewolf666]

Aaand... ...the lawyer's fees to make sure you get that part right may easily exceed what organizing the event yourself. If it is feasible at all and you don't have too many event goers refusing your terms.

Overall, it looks like a spectacularly bad idea to work with Eventbrite under this circumstances

Re:Hows that going to work?

[barrygrommit]

Brilliant response!
Hey...I may need a lawyer...are you available?

Re:Hows that going to work?

[bickerdyke]

To satisfy Eventbrite, the promoter will have to get advance clearance from all rights holders.

Yes. And he agreed to do so. So, if things land in front of a judge, he will be the one that neglected contractual obligations. (Unless your local jurisdiction has laws against unexpected or discriminatory clauses in TOS)

So in your case, celebrity sues eventbrite, they take the organizer in regress.

But in turn, I haven't heard of an event organizer who would not reserve the right to take und use photographs of their own events for PR. I guess events without that clause are running on a premium....

Re:Hows that going to work?

[mysidia]

Then they would assimilate legal speak to include any possible bypasses to the site venue

EventBrite lets you specify what event the tickets are being purchased for, So what i'm saying is you literally sell tickets which admit you only to access a small exchange booth, And the "event" is described as the exchange of your pass for access to another event, But the long description of the event is attendees are notified the EventBrite pass will be exchanged for a pass to another event after agreeing to more terms.

Since the process of exchanging the EventBrite ticket involves accepting more legalese: That legalese can directly state that it supercedes any prior agreements, and contain language ensuring EventBrite's terms only applied to the venue of the EventBrite pass And not the areas that the new pass provides access to.

Because the new agreement nullifies the old one by mutual agreement of the parties: it didn't matter what legal speak the original agreement contained, as it's made moot.

Fuck That!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

"in any manner, in any medium or context now known or hereafter developed, without further authorization from, or compensation."

No fucking way!!!

Eventbrite is on my shit list. Forever. PayPal, eBay, Roku and now Eventbrite.

Re:Fuck That!!!

[dwywit]

In any case, I doubt the enforceability of the "hereafter developed" clause. Insurance companies have very clearly defined "future events", e.g. water that enters your house via ground flow, that is flood, vs. water that enters your hosue via leaky roof. That's come about by legal precedent, and they don't get to use a generic term like "entry of water" then slide out of a claim by saying "we meant flood, not leaky roof".

So you can't use a blanket term like "hereafter developed" and hope a court will enforce it. I think it's been used to provide a framework on which to base the inevitable court case, to get a legal decision for just how far Eventbrite can stretch their greed.

Re:Fuck That!!!

[mmdurrant]

Billy Corgan was on Joe Rogan a while back. He had mentioned some ridiculous legalese that mentioned alternate universes / dimensions / realities.

Say what you will...the record company lawyers have foresight if nothing else.

Re: Fuck That!!!

[Brockmire]

That was probably Prince's fault.

Website and other monetization.

[Anonymous Coward]

Their own streaming service. Consolidation DVD/BLueray/whatever disks.

'Hey, stream the indie bands/theater/show in your area! $6.99/month!"

"See the hotchicks that show up to bands in your area."

Kids posting the video and posting "Ah mah Gaahd! There's me and my buds!"

And the algorithms take over and start posting ads for concerts, shows, cloths, restaurants, .....

Geeze! I'm an old fart 'who doesn't get this shit' and I can think of those off of the top of my head.

Looking for an alternative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out tickettailor.com, an easy to use event ticketing platform that puts the event organiser in control.

Re:Looking for an alternative?

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Brown Bag Tickets is another good choice.

And just when theyâ(TM)re about to IPO

[cunina]

Ah yes, the Eventbrite thatâ(TM)s preparing for its IPO this year. Also the same Eventbrite that canceled Milo Yiannapoulisâ(TM) event because of unspecified âoeterms of serviceâ violations.

Re: And just when theyâ(TM)re about to IPO

[Anonymous Coward]

Iâ(TM)m not sure if yâ(TM)allâ(TM)re âoetrollinâ(TM)â or serious...I canâ(TM)t read your text, so please use the non-smart punctuation on iDevice. (Pro-tip: tap-hold " to get the non-oblique quote)

It's really "easy".

Re:And just when theyâ(TM)re about to IPO

[arth1]

Among my circle of friends there are a few who've been sexually abused as children (more than I can count on one hand, fewer than two - a mix of male and female).

Ah. You have a hand with no fingers and know a hermaphrodite who was sexually abused as a child. Happens to the best of us.

Cool!

[mnemotronic]

I'm going to start sending Eventbrite invites to President Trump's daily intelligence meetings.

Re:Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's an oxymoron - Trump and Intelligence meetings.....

Re:Cool!

[Hognoxious]

That's a good one! Do you mind if I use it in my act?

Yours,
      Nathan Birnbaum

Re: Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not necessarily.
[Members gather round table, shuffle papers]
Chairman: "Well, how was he?"
Glum looking committee member, shaking head sadly: "Still no sign of intelligence I'm afraid."
Chairman: "Thank you. If there's no further business, I'll call this meeting to a close."

Fuck Eventbrite

[AndyKron]

Fuck Eventbrite and everyone like them.

Eventbrite are shitty spammers anyway

[UdoKeir]

I was done with them years ago. HR at my last job decided to use them for some event. Eventbrite decided that meant I wanted spam about any shit going on in my area. Fuck those spamming assholes.

This is not gonna fly!

[shubus]

Any promoters reading the fine print are likely to tell Evenbrite to take a short walk off a long plank. What organization would agree to this?

Re: This is not gonna fly!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it is a long walk off a short plank...

Re: This is not gonna fly!

[Quirkz]

A sideways flop off a plank of irrelevent length? It's got a ring to it, I guess.

Yep

[BlazeMiskulin]

[A]you're also granting them permission to record and use footage of all your attendees and speakers, "in any manner, in any medium or context now known or hereafter developed, without further authorization from, or compensation to." [B]And after that Eventbrite "will own all rights of every nature whatsoever in and to all films and photographs taken and recordings made hereunder, including without limitation of all copyrights therein and renewals and extensions thereof, and the exclusive right to use and exploit the Recordings in any manner, in any medium or context now known or hereafter developed..."

If you grant A, B is automatic under current copyright law.

One possible exception: If any of the recorded material has a previous copyright (e.g., a speaker uses a speech to which they hold the copyright), Everbrite can not usurp that copyright.

Other than that? It's quite likely that this will stand up in court.

That being said: Don't use Everbrite. Tell everyone you know not to use Everbrite. Hire a local firm that does what they do, and stipulate in the contract that it's "work for hire".

Re:Another bigot exposes its true character

[war4peace]

What would the ethnicity of the company's founders have to do with anything?

Nothing, really.
The OP made a statement I disagree with, then someone else stated a likely fact based on their name. Does looking at someone's name and inferring ethnicity make someone a bigoted asshole? If so, I apologize, however please tell me why, exactly, would I be a bigoted asshole by saying "X could be Jewish because his name is $Jewish_name".

Note I never said that EULA is horrible because X and Y are Jewish or anything like that.

To hell with roku

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody agrees on how to pronounce roku. Been there before with nginx, integer, gif and nucular. Not worth the hassle.

Re:To hell with roku

[CaptQuark]

What a weak argument. Ignoring the fact that the inventor of the file format declared he pronounced it "JIF" when he created it, there are plenty of acronyms where the sound of the word in the acronym and the way we pronounce it aren't the same.

AWOL = Absent Without Leave (long A/short A)
AIDS = Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (long A/short A)
UFO = Unidentified Flying Object (OOFO?)
CAP = Civil Air Patrol (SAP?)
GEOS = Graphical Environment Operating System (normally sounds like "JEOS)
GIMP = GNU Image Manipulation Program (NIMP?)
GPG = GNU Privacy Guard (NPG?)


Even the letter "G" is pronounced with a "J" sound. It is pronounced "Jee" not "Gee".

This is one of the oldest arguments on the internet (and Compuserve before that). We were pronouncing it "JIF" on Compuserve long before the internet WAS the internet.

---

Not just Eventbrite

[Tim the Gecko]

By participating in an event that uses the Athlinks Sites for display of photography, video or results (“Athlete Images and Data”), you hereby grant Athlinks a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use your image and likeness in the Athlete Images and Data uploaded by Event Directors on or through the Athlinks Sites.

Not that I care too much about the copyright on 10 seconds of video where I cross the finish line.

Reminds me of the Limp Bizkit guitarist search.

[Anonymous Coward]

You had to sign a form where you could only use original riffs in your audition, and then Fred Durst then owned them. It basically was a fishing operation for free material.

http://blastecho.com/limp-bizkit-publicity-stunt-to-replacement-founding-guitarist-fails-miserably/

Re: Fuck you, bigoted asshole

[quixos]

No Censoreship. Mod them down. If they are invisible, we are uninformed of the mindset and numbers of these folks.

Brown Paper Bag It

[ZuluGulp]

Make the event the parking lot. Itâ(TM)s a nice parking lot anyhow, so close to unrelated unaffiliated shows. Then just happen to invite some weary travelers into said separate event whilst Eventbrite can continue to go fuck themselves in the official event that was the parking lot.

I just checked the calendar...

[bev_tech_rob]

and it is not April 1st. I can't believe someone would be this extreme level of stupid to try to put such onerous terms upon its customers. And any consumers that use this service are just as stupid.

Overreaching lawyer?

[Anonymous Coward]

No. It's just hoarding stuff it can possibly monetize later. Raises their "value" if they want to sell out or IPO (that's the same, actually).

Someone mentioned they want to IPO?

Just avoid them. I don't get what value they offer, anyway (yes, I've been at some events managed by them. I always wrote to the organizers that it ain't worth it).

Thank you!

[BarryHaworth]

My thanks to whoever actually read though the terms and conditions and found this. Having checked that the same T&C are in the Australian branch of Eventbrite (they are) I have posted this story on a couple of theatre discussion lists I'm involved with, and had a very grateful response. An eye opener for all concerned.

Sounds like Rytmik

[Anonymous Coward]

The music production tool that demands rights to your productions. Even the money grabbers in the industry don't try to pull that.

Re:in practice...

[ebvwfbw]

Beyonce is there? Who'd care?

Re:in practice...

[arth1]

Beyonce is there? Who'd care?

The poor sod who provides seating...

Re:Check out tickettailor.com for a good alternati

[bugs2squash]

I recently bought tickets for an event from brownpapertickets and it seemed like a reasonable deal to me.

Clause is now gone

[Michi]

Some time in the past twelve hours, the ToS was updated. There is no longer any trace of the recording clause.

There is still a clause that requires me to waive my right to participate in a class action though. I can sue EventBrite only individually, not as part of a class action. (It appears that no-one, for any reason, whether merchant or customer, can ever pursue them in a class action under that ToS.)

Never put off to malace...

[thunderclees]

One could be forgiven in assuming that this is a fail from some legal bot attempting to come up with a way to CYA EventBrite if they were ever DNCA'd as opposed to them doing evil

What terms and conditions?

[fredrated]

I can't find anything being complained about in the linked 'terms and conditions'? Did they pull them already, or did they never exist?