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Microsoft Plans Version of Windows 10 For Devices With Limited Storage (engadget.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: A smaller, more pared down version of Windows 10 was spotted in the latest Redstone 5 preview build. Microsoft is calling it Windows 10 Lean and it's 2GB smaller in size than standard editions of Windows 10 once installed. Missing from this version are the Registry Editor, Internet Explorer, wallpaper, Microsoft Management Console and drivers for CD and DVD drives, and Windows Central notes that the lighter Windows 10 might be designed to ensure tablets and laptops with little internal storage can install Windows 10 feature updates. Additionally, the Redstone 5 preview also features phone-related APIs that support functions like dialing, blocking withheld numbers, video calling, Bluetooth headset support and speakerphone mode, stoking those persistent Andromeda rumors.
Just kidding! Get rid of the useless stuff first, like registry editor and DVD drivers.
Windows needs a certain amount of space for the data exfiltration and telemetry. Your files are irrelevant. Your applications are irrelevant. The computer is used to collect data for MSFT, your "needs" are secondary at best.
The extra space is used to enable telemetry updates, security enhancements for enabling data exfiltration, and other critical functions.
With all that garbage you stuffed into Win10, I think you'd do much better!
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Android and iOS had the huge benefits of hitting the reset button, and going back to smaller, leaner OS and applications.
With this, Microsoft is once again trying to shoehorn a desktop OS onto a mobile device, and bring all of the shit and baggage with it.
I can't imagine running Windows 10 on a mobile device, and I predict it will randomly become unusable as it decides it needs to patch or whatever.
The world needs more blue screens of death on cellphones.
Once again, Microsoft sees the world as "everything Windows", even if it's a terrible place to have it. Hell, on a desktop they can't keep the C:\Windows folder from growing infinitely because they don't seem to realise space is finite.
This is why Microsoft can't compete in new markets, because they are just too incapable of paring down the shit they install or starting from scratch.
Appsoft is removing LUDDITE software from LUDDITE Windows 10 to make an appier apperating app that's even appier than Appdows 10 S! Only apps can app apps!
Apps!
n/t.
"to ensure tablets and laptops with little internal storage can install Windows 10 feature updates"
Security updates over feature updates, ffs.
"Device with limited storage" == "Phone" or "Tablet"
So this says that Windows 10 is targeted for embedded devices like phones and tablets... So the death of Window's phones was announced prematurely then?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Will gamers be able to get this so-called Lean version, maybe even possibly at a lower price than the regular version?
#DeleteFacebook
If they're jettisoning wallpaper, it seems like they're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Even Windows 95 had wallpaper.
I would suggest to them that they could try getting rid of all of those spam applet tiles in the start menu. That would certainly free up more space than a couple of wallpaper jpegs.
You guys are completely insane.
How much space does Registry Editor take? Good lord.
I feel so luck to have a device with unlimited storage. Windows can grow and grow and I never run out of space. Yet somehow I never have enough free space for my stuff... It's like each time my storage increases Windows catches up.
"Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
What I'm wondering is why those few features alone can amount to 2 GB (compressed) storage. How is this level of bloat even possible?
I feel a bit paranoid here: I doubt they removed regedit just to save 313K.
If only Microsoft removes the bloat that winsxs is, and make sure that only the last version of a dll is there, and that all dlls instead provide versioned calls, then windows should drop to 2-3gb. If the install disk is 3 gb, the OS should take 3, not 12.
I was already worried they might dump the telemetry code. I mean, I can live without DVD drivers, without the ability to fix Registry entries after their update shoots the system in the foot and being able to manage the system, but MS not knowing that I still diligently dig through the system to squelch Cortana, get rid of the Windows Shop (or whatever they call that iTunes Store and Steam spoof/mockup), remove their "cloud" connection (insert vaporware joke here) and get rid of all the other ridiculous bloatware they cram down my throat ... I mean, why do you think I spend my evenings after updates ripping that crap out if it doesn't piss off MS that I refuse to use more of their shit than I absolutely have to?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I am posting from a cheap windows netbook that I picked up for under a hundred bucks at Wal-mart. It does the job perfectly - provides a nice screen and good connectivity for browsing, web apps, email and video streaming. It has nice long battery life. And no hard drive. Just a tiny 32 gig "solid state drive". It does have an SD slot, but that gets treated as removable media, so installing stuff there is limited.
This means that after the first update to Windows downloaded the entire drive was full. I had to do some hoop-jumping just to get it completed. It has since pared itself down enough that I have 5 gigs free. Trimming 2 more gigs would be a great thing.
In the last 28 years, MSFT has added a prettier interface and a lot of spyware. But not much functionality.
Sounds like taking away management tools is the purpose, not space saving.
For devices that are always connected to the Internet, all you need is a communications stack and something to control the user interface, you can just take the "thin client" approach where everything but the user interface is happening on some distant machine.
Instead of getting rid of the registry editor, which weighs in at about 400k, how about getting rid of Cortana? I have a hunch the lady is heavier than a few k.
While we're at it, there's a bunch more of your crapware you dumped into the system I can't get rid of, maybe scrape them out too while you're at it? It's not like Win10 comes without a ton of unwanted, unnecessary and outright useless crap preinstalled. Not installing that would probably be where I'd start before removing drivers and system management tools.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A blue screen only.
Means no easy way to disable all the updates and telemetry bullshit included in Windows 10.
This has nothing to do with size. Windows XP Embedded could be built down into a 150mb image that included nearly everything you needed for a usable computer, and ran on less than 64mb of RAM. Said image included everyhing they're removing from this "edition" of Windows 10.
No, this is about removing all the pesky tools people use to neuter parts of the operating system. I'm sure there will be a huge flood of shills that follow this article stating how Regedit and MMC are tools of the past and we should be looking forward to the future, but if the future includes computers locked down tighter than a fucking iPhone, then I'm out. I have no problems running older hardware and software until the day I die, as long as that means I own and control that hardware and software.
I can fit a VERY usable desktop Linux OS in 4-5Gb, what does the other 5Gb of bloat that windows has add?
Telemetry?
Genuine Advantage?
Exploits?
Attack Vectors?
Drivers?
Why does it take 5 mins before my mouse becomes usable in Windows? I just plugged it into a different port, why does it take 5 mins to "discover" it? Same with a keyboard, or other simple HID device.
Seriously? How big is a DVD driver?
Back in the day when I worked on lots of DOS systems I used to have to load the Mitsumi driver on floppy disk, usually after having booted to said floppy disk. The Mitsumi driver took up so little room on the floppy I didn't even consider it in my "space budget" when figuring out what I was going to put on a floppy and what I was going to leave out.
FLOPPY
I'm going to go out on a limb without actually testing it, and assume that if I were to boot to DOS from a floppy on a modern system with legacy support on (because honestly how are you going to boot to a floppy otherwise?) I could likely use the latest SATA Mitsumi driver to access data on a CDROM in the latest BluRay drive as long as the BIOS is setup with ATAPI support on SATA, which it usually is. I'm not going to go so far as to guess I could access a DVD or BluRay simply because I don't trust the huge file system to be accessible on such an old OS.
I would guess optical drive access overall would be kernel level these days.
Anyone want to test this?
Removing IE was a good idea, the registry editor, meh, MMC - hey as long as we're remove lots of stuff tablet users not on a domain won't need sure. I've got an idea to save space - how about NOT installing Candy Crush, Adobe Photoshop Express, Duolingo, Translator, and a host of other things while I'm not looking and wait for user request? I'm sure even the smallest of these programs far outweighs a DVD driver.
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Really, no registry editor and no mmc? For what, 10Mb saved? Just set up differently the paging file and the target is accomplished. I really miss the Carly Brown.. ehm Steve Ballmer era...
Remember Netbooks? Cheap little computers with Linux and no MS licensing fees. Then they came in with stripped-down WinXP, then finally stripped-down Win7. Then they extinguished the whole threat.
Remember Chromebooks? Here we go again.
You can get it down to ~4 gig still. yes even windows 10.
but it takes a lot of work. and microsoft fights you the entire way.
Is Windows bloated?
It would be nice instead if the user could pick what you wanted installed. Don't need MMC, or wallpapers, make it a check box. A Windows version with Tiles, NotePad, Wallpapers , Edge all as options would be great. I know I'm just dreaming.
Sent from my TARDIS
I bought a external USB floppy drive and am able to boot the computer from it. Either I got lucky or it's pretty much standard.
I really should proof read myself. Should have read I could likely use the latest PATA Mitsumi driver to access data on a CDROM
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While I don't 100% agree with some of what they removed, I have Windows 10 on a couple of low powered tablets. It runs well. As far as a tablet is concerned I don't think I will be missing system management tools. Although the registry editor is really lightweight. I noted an argument about dropping Cortana. That would not make sense for a tablet. Although as someone running Windows 10 on tablets with only 2 gigs of ram, I am more concerned with reducing what get loaded into memory by default than over how much mass storage takes up. As far as tweaking Windows 10 startup as an end user, that is beyond a lot of people no matter how simple it may be for some here.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Now do something about the 42 GB in Windows\Installer folder that OMG cannot be deleted.
You're using the wrong point of view: That of a rational computer-oriented used not that of Microsoft. For them, the crap like Candy Crush and others are useful since they make them money, the registry editor and other useful thing do not.
Registry Editor, Internet Explorer, wallpaper, Microsoft Management Console
Registry Editor and MMC are small Win32 applications.... Wallpaper support is a small DLL. The only reason I can think for them eliminating thse
are to discourage use of this version of Windows outside IoT devices.
There's a TON of bloat in Windows, but it's NOT these critical pieces.
If you want to cut the bloat, then revert back to Windows 7, then upgrade the Kernel, Services, and System libraries to Windows 10-equivalent versions without adding all the crap like Metro.
Any change to an MS Office 2016/365 installation is done by removing, then reinstalling the entire suite. Add one language pack, lose your machine for 2 hours as it removes and reinstalls, thowing away all your preferences in the process.
MS seems to be hellbent on wasting resources wherever they can.
Still, the Candy Crush ICON file is probably bigger than the optical drive driver. Removing an optical disk driver is more of a publicity stunt to say "look we're removing things that are not longer current!" than it is an effort to save space. It's the Microsoft version of virtue-signalling.
They could make more money and save more space by offering a Citrix-like remote program service that had an ad-banner attached to the client side window/toolbar. I'm not 100% sure what the average person would want to run in a remote hosted window like that, but I'm sure there could be some use for a service like that. VMs, power hungry games that could stream like the Sims, etc...
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.. while they're at it.
20Gb of (mostly) useless drivers on my 128G ssd laptop looks like a really stupid thing to me..
Every time i see a story about something microsoft is doing it seems as if they are just throwing things at the wall and seeing if they will stick.
Wasn't there a story recently about microsoft using an open source kernel? didn't they kill the phone idea only to bring it back.
It is just like what seems to be going on at google lately. Innovation for innovations sake. They are no longer problem solving, only becoming more and more irrelevant by the day.
If you have had windows installed for a while navigate to this folder:
C:\Windows\Installer
This is a place where all the MSI packages are cached for anything you have ever installed, the full thing.
I have 10 GB of crap here, that is completely redundant and risky to remove.
I hear it is so that you can run the uninstaller. But you don't really need the entire msi for that, you just need the list of files and registry entries to remove, like any other package manager in any other operating system.
I also hear it is kept for validating installed files. Well, you only need to store the checksum of the files for that.
It is great that they save 2GB of space of old or unused stuff, but for crying out loud, there are much bigger fish to fry.
I bought a 64gb Surface Pro 3 tablet a few years ago which I wound up press ganging into doing programming work. It can't run the latest version of Windows because the latest update is an 8gb download. I wound up making another install of windows 10 on an external drive to solve the problem. However, when I boot to my regular install of windows that came with the official Microsoft tablet I have Microsoft saying I need to update despite the fact I physically can't.
So, good job idiots.
So another broken and limited Windows starter edition that will be installed in cheap and pathetically underpowered and crappy netbooks that will of course be in play to compete against Chromeboooks. If I’m going to end up with a handicapped Windows I might as well get a Chromebook which runs way better on crappy hardware.
Two ideas here. Either they write in typical Microsoft style and bloat up even the simple stuff, ie, programmers who don't know how to write efficient code. Or else they are not listing all the stuff they jettisoned to make space, ie, dishonest marketing. Or maybe it's a mix of both.
I had a client with an HP laptop they got for Christmas last year - 32GB flash storage. So by the time Windows and her couple of applications are installed, she has 12 GB free, which is great because she doesn't take pictures, download movies, play games, etc. It is documents, email, and youtube+netflix machine and worked fine.
Well - until Windows update decided she needed the Anniversary Creator DoublePlusGood update and downloaded 10GB of updates, then tries to install itself, only to shit the bed because it needs 6GB free space to do the install. So it backs out of the update and restarts the PC.... only to scream at her that she needs to install the update now, Microsoft will install the update when she reboots... which it does.... only to go through the exact same routine of trying to install, failing because of insufficient drive space.... and then going right back to it. No sanity checks whatsoever; and deleting the updates just prompts it to rush out and redownload and start the whole circus again.
Fixing that and then disabling Windows update was a headache and a half. Multiple processes that respawn each other if terminated, services, scheduled tasks, etc. My thought while slowly neutering the Windows Update system was "I have removed malware by hand easier and less entrenched than this..."
The sad thing is that I have had to do the same thing with clients who have 120GB SSD drives as well because Windows 10 Updates decides it needs *half* the drive.
Tip: You can move an application folder to the SD card and then use mklink /d to create a directory symlink to the new location at the old one. The program won't see any difference unless it knows to look for it. Alternately you could give your SD card a mount point inside of C:, thus fooling most installers.
I picked up a convertible laptop with 64 GB eMMC and 4 GB RAM for $200 and used this trick to force Dropbox to put my files on my 200 GB SD card.
A USB floppy drive doesn't use floppy drivers and doesn't appear to the BIOS as a standard floppy. It has a lot more in common with a USB flash reader. The floppy driver Win10 removes is the standard AT floppy controller one; USB floppy drives should still work normally.
Everything in the WindowsApp directory, all the AppX packages, etc. I shouldn't have to spend hours via PowerShell fighting to remove games from an "Enterprise" operating system. I now have a love / hate relationship with DISM. There is always LTSB, but that is meant for "kiosk-like devices" only.
"The floppy driver Win10 removes is the standard AT floppy controller one;"
While it's true that some beta builds of Windows 10 removed the standard floppy driver (flpydisk.sys - which is all of 26K in size), it was restored in time for the final release. It's still in the latest builds of Windows 10, too.
I would imagine though that it's gone in Windows 10 Lean.
I didn't RTFA to see what the original size was but 2GB less doesn't seem that much to gain. I mean it's hardly Linux Slack size is it?
This is meant for tablets and ultra-low-end laptops, which don't have DVD drives. It's true that you can connect one to a USB port, and if you do that Windows will probably fetch the driver from Windows Update. I hope that they make the Registry Editor available for download in case you need it.
Internet Explorer is only needed for compatibility with legacy sites. Edge will still be included, so most users won't miss IE. It would be nice if they would also remove Edge and give you a free choice of browser (either theirs or a third party one), but the code from the Microsoft browser is also used internally for other Windows features so it's impossible to remove all of it.
While it does seem silly to get rid of Regedit, what if it's about getting rid of .net 3.5 platform? Like all the crap that bloats up in WinSxS? Or what about removing 32-bit infrastructure in favor of x64 only?
Just guessing. I'm just some guy.