Slashdot Mirror
As More Users Complain About Poor Keyboard in Current MacBook Pro Lineup, Critics Say Apple Should Consider Recalling the Device (theoutline.com)
Last year, a report outlining what it described as a major flaw in Apple's current MacBook Pro lineup became a talking point in the industry. The issue was that a piece of dust could render keys on the MacBook Pro lineup useless, and that Apple had no idea how to fix it. Casey Johnston, writing for The Outline: MacBook Pro's keyboard keys stopped working if a single piece of dust slipped under there, and more importantly, that neither Apple nor its Geniuses would acknowledge that this was actually a problem. Today, Best Buy announced it is having a significant sale on these computers, marking them hundreds of dollars off. Interesting. Still, I'd suggest you do not buy them. Since I wrote about my experience, many have asked me what happened with the new top half of the computer that the Apple Geniuses installed, with its pristine keyboard and maybe-different key switches. The answer is that after a couple of months, I started to get temporarily dead keys for seemingly no reason. Again. Longtime widely respected commentator Jason Snell says, "I know that we Apple-watchers sit around wondering if Apple will release new laptops with new keyboards that don't have these issues, but Apple's relative silence on this issue for existing customers is deafening. If these problems are remotely as common as they seem to be, this is an altogether defective product that should be recalled."
So Apple users are going to be buying the next version anyways.
.... And because of that there is zero chance that there will be a recall. Because that would be an admission that they've done something wrong. And they rarely admit that they've done something wrong or apologize (the Apple Maps fiasco or the "I Am Root" fiasco being the only two times that I can think of that they've said sorry for something). That's something that Jobs preached pretty aggressively.
What's more likely to happen is that they will come out with a new keyboard design at WWDC in June and call it an "innovation" and shove it into every notebook they make to make this go away over the long term. And they'll likely come out with a repair extension program for this crappy keyboard if they have to so that the bad press goes away over the short term. .
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
I'd noticed this happening from time to time on my MBP but hadn't searched to see if the problem was widespread. Typically a key becomes dead for few strikes before coming back to life. Happens once every few weeks.
soylentnews.org
.....and.....GO!
While visiting the Apple store for an iPhone battery replacement, I tried the MacBook Pros that were on display. The "new" keyboard is positively terrible - not much key travel and poor feedback.
Ridiculous. People are just typing wrong.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
because users complaint.. haha, never in 10 years!
They just have to buy the next version, anyway, they will doing it.
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
Most laptop lines have a weak spot. And it's the keyboard for the 12" MacBook and the MacBook Pro. Loads of people experience no problems whatsoever, but some do. I've had a Dell which had an old-fashioned harddrive that heated up the left palm rest. Very annoying. But not annoying enough to get rid of the machine.
Now I'm sure that some really have defective keyboards, where it didn't have anything to do with dirt or something. That sucks of course. But in general I'd say: simply not eat in front of this laptop, and keep a can of pressured air at home. In my personal experience, it solves the issue.
Not trying to be an Apple apologist or something, there really is a problem. But unless you have the bad luck of a real mechanical defect, it's easily solved.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
"Appers" hate real keyboards, and they want the keys to be as flat as possible. Before you know it, they'll force Apple to copy the Atari 400 keyboard and claim it's the best thing since sliced apps.
The Macbook keyboard is superior! The Macbook touchpad is superior! The Macbook build is superior! The Mac OS is superior! But we've seen how some of these things have become a little bit less than superior. And then there is the reality distortion field.
Built like Ferraris, recalled like any other carmaker out there.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
In the worst design spec in industry Apple continues to rivet their keyboards in place making it all but impossible to change them out.....for another bad keyboard. You have to literally rip the old keyboard out then remove all the old rivets, drill them out and tap a zillion new holes to accept new screws to attach the new keyboard. On the PLUS side, you'll have an easy time of it next time the keyboard fails...you might want to have a few on hand.
Over the last 18 months, I've watched at the employees at my tech company have stopped purchasing MBPs, and started getting Dell models instead.
The number 1 issue?
Not USB-C.
Not the removal of MagSafe.
Not even the touchbar (can we all just agree this thing is a damn gimmick yet, though?)
It's the keyboard. That keyboard sucks.
It's the reason why developers where I work are bailing, and it's why I bailed.
It's the hockey-puck mouse of the MBP line -- and if they don't fix it, no one is going to be buying these things in another two years.
OH WAIT. MAYBE THAT'S THE WHOLE PLAN ANYHOW.
But really I jut can't ee it.
Hopefully we can finally get over the quest to make the thinnest, lightest machine possible at the expense of power and features. The keyboard on the 2012 model was just fine. Let's go back to that.
I've had mine for over a year (13" touchbar MBP).. and I don't baby this keyboard. It's fucking filthy.
I love the low key travel. I don't feel any strain in my fingers or wrists. It's *by* far the best laptop keyboard I've ever used. The previous winner was the previous style of MBP keyboards.
No stuck keys, no increase in typing errors. Just love it all around.
Now this isn't to say that people aren't having problems. I'm just adding my anecdote (and a few others who I know who have this same machine and love the keyboard) to the other anecdotes.
Seriously, if Apple can't manage to design PCs, give it to an organization that can.
Apple used to build great computers, however they have then moved onto building great "products", which looks nice, but leave the functionality and usability as afterthoughts. Because of this I have left behind my older MacBook Pro. They seem to have no proper upgrade alternative in that product line.
The new "Pro" does not even have a proper keyboard, dust issues aside, the keys themselves are not fun to type with (I tried using friend's machine). They are too thin giving minimal tactile feedback. There is little spacing among them. In fact they could have replaced the thing with a touch controller... oops, they have already done that for the function keys.
They seem to want everyone to get an iPad Pro with walled gardens, faster upgrade paths, and more limited peripherals. If people do not adhere to their whims, then they seem to be converting the Macbook Pro into an iPad. Slowly, but steadily. They even talk about replacing MacOS with iOS, which is not very assuring.
"Don't hold it wrong" is another talking point. Course, there were dozens of phones where the manufacturer advises you not to hold it around the antenna, but those manufacturers weren't Apple, so you never heard about them.
The solution is obvious: Membrane keyboards
Apple was able to popularize the 'island' keyboard.. They can popularize the membrane keyboard.
It's not like Mac users do any input anyway, aside from clicking on the like button in FaceBook.
I've been down this path before with my MBP - after the wireless connection wouldn't connect, they ended up replacing the entire motherboard. Now, they're having similar issues with the keyboard, and - silence.
They need to go back to the earlier keyboard designs and start replacing them as warranty repairs start rolling in. Frankly, the older keyboard designs would be a massive upgrade. I doubt they will do this.
Finding God in a Dog
I'm just adding my anecdote
just because your ford pinto didn't explode doesn't mean the design has no problems
They still call the *Backspace* key *Delete* so they obviously don't care about keyboards. :)
I learned to type on an IBM Selectric so I find Apple's current generation of keyboards woefully lacking. They're almost as bad as the "chicklet" keyboard that I used ages ago on my IBM PCjr. I find myself missing key presses a lot on my 2017 MBPro. When I switch to clamshell mode and use my Model-M keyboard I almost never miss a key press. So yeah, I'm with the folks who think Apple should abandon their current keyboard design.
have so many people been wrong.
Its never apple fault; all the sheep know that.
Im sure there are apple users that are not having keyboard problems so that should be good enough for the rest of the whiners.
...won't have a keyboard at all. By remove it, Apple says it'll now be waterproof.
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
My 2015 MacBook Pro, that is. It's not perfect - heck, it's been in the shop twice when the trackpad + keyboard ribbon cable failed. Which is, not coincidentally, when I've had an extended chance to use the newer iteration of the model.
The first time the ribbon cable on my 2015 MBP failed, for some reason the Apple Store had trouble getting a replacement to them (perhaps this is a common problem) - so I was without that computer for about 2.5 weeks. During this time, I was using a loaner 2016 MacBook Pro - so I had plenty of time to adjust. But, at the end of the 2.5 weeks, if possible I hated the keyboard even more than I had at the beginning. And, on top of that, having to tote around a USB-C adapter everywhere was fecal icing on a crap cake.
I've said this here before, but - if Apple doesn't make significant changes in the overall design of their "pro" laptop, I won't be buying another Apple laptop.
#DeleteChrome
...SteveJobs long ago stopped trying to please everyone instead abstracting his "slim" aesthetic form factor designs over function.
Only the MBP with the touchbar has no "real" escape key, but a touchscreen one. If you don't like it go the the keyboard preferences and set your capslock key to be the escape key. Or buy the other which has a real escape key.
The problem with this keyboard is the fact that it is utterly unreliable. Otherwise it's totally fine and people would long have stopped talking about it at all just as they stopped talking about the chiclet keyboard in the older Macbooks. But you can't start to love a keyboard that stops working every three months and has to repaired by exchanging the upper half of the case for $400 (once it is out of warranty). In the contrary you will start to fear and hate every little bit of it.
Apple just screwed up here and then didn't notice or didn't want to double down and fix it. And this is not just a "you're holding it wrong" thing, it's a real, hard, ugly screw-up and it will come to haunt them. Nobody in his right mind should buy a $2000 laptop that is a write-off after the warranty runs out.
The new Macbook Pro keyboard SSUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKSSSSSS.. I dread typing on the stupid thing. It feels terrible, the arrow keys are ridiculously difficult to use by touch, and now my N key will double trigger all the darned time. 99% of the time I'm using the laptop it's with a Logitech K750 Mac.
In case I wasn't clear: I HATE the new Macbook Pro keyboard. Love the laptop otherwise, but the keyboard is embarrassingly bad.
My apartment is very dusty due to two cockatiels
I want to buy Apple things, but it's not 2012 anymore and they no longer make "take my money" kinds of machines
There is literally NO ESCAPE KEY
Touch Bar always has an escape key unless an application chooses to override it for something more useful.
Not all applications make use of the escape key you know...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I like the new keyboard; I have a 2017 MBP and I've been quite happy with the short travel, once you get used to it, it's very nice. I don't like the keys on the touchbar, but it's not a dealbreaker; it's definitely slower than physical keys, no question about it. The one thing I just can't get use to are the cursor keys and I type several hours daily since I got this machine (last summer), so after so many hours, if I still don't land on them like I should, there is a problem. Also, I have had issues with dust blocking keys; once you put the laptop on the side and blow compressed air, it works right away, but this is totally retarded in a machine of that price. But hey, I'm probably using it wrong, right?
What other keys do you think should be removed
As I said, the escape key WAS NOT REMOVED. It's always there in the Touch Bar, unless an application chooses to remove it to do something more useful (like present a key with a different label that does something specific).
When I'm in an FPS you seen to think that "W" should not move me forward, but instead should type forward because no key should be programmatically definable. What a moron!
I'll bet you REALLY hate those keyboards with all programmable labels on keys! Not technical advancement for amicus, no sir, in fact he's going back to a God Damned Typewriter so software cannot alter the meanings of keys and he gets to choose the color of his ribbon.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The company formerly known as "Apple" died when Steve Jobs did. The new company using the name "Apple" is a god-for-saken mutant shitshow. Run like hell.
Why are you using a keyboard when you could use a tablet? Who needs a computer? Just sip content on a phone or tablet.
Using a keyboard for heavy work, man -- who needs a PC any more?
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Rather than buy a new laptop due to this issue, I found a slightly used 13 inch 2012 Macbook Pro. They stopped selling it in late 2016 and will probably support it for 5 more years. I swapped my old 2008 Macbook Pro SSD and 16GB RAM from my Windows laptop, and have a dependable i5 lappy. I donâ(TM)t regret not getting the latest, and I do like having a DVD drive. No regrets, as Apple dropped the ball on this keyboard thing.
tl;wr: 1 bad sensor on the B key of 17 month old laptop, costs $795 to repair - 1/3rd the cost of my barely older than 1 year laptop.
On my 2016 15" TouchBar MBP, 17 months after purchase, the "B" key suddenly started sporadically inputting 2 B's for every press. It would even input the B's interleaved with other letters if I was typing quick enough (this is a babd problem).
Took it to the GeniusBar where they ran some diagnostics, then informed me (since I was 5 months out of warranty) I needed to pay $795 to fix the one bad sensor. To do so they have to replace: the entire top deck, the touch bar, the keyboard, touchpad and battery. The tech said he had seen the issue a number of times, but that those other laptops were in the warranty period, and that I should have bought AppleCare.
Ok, the Lord knows I have zero love for Apple. I haven't touched an Apple thing since 2008 when I was given a Macbook Pro from work.
But you purchased the laptop, if you didn't like the keyboard, why didn't you return it? Why didn't you check it out at Apple store before buying it ? As far as I know, the keyboards are not breaking. They are just extremely shitty.
And therefore the whole "Recall" idea is BS.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
I have to question if a lot of this is just being overblown by Mac haters and the press, looking for something sensational to exploit? (I've done some blogging before and it's WELL known that if you can find practically any news to discuss that has "Apple" in it, you'll get a great click rate on it.)
We deployed a bunch of these new Macbook Pro 13" laptops in my workplace and so far, not a single complaint about keyboard problems. I have one myself that I use, and my only issue, to date, is just that I'm not a fan of having that little key-travel.
One of my co-workers had a key on his stop working but he said he knew it was his fault. He was eating a piece of toast while using it and crumbs got under the key. He was able to use a vacuum to suck it back out and it started working again.
Obviously, you have very little room inside those scissor action pieces under the keycaps on these keyboards, so very small things can get in there and jam it up. (On a more typical keyboard design, you'd just mash down the crumb and pulverize it when you hit the key a few times, so it wouldn't jam things up anymore. You'd eventually get a gross-looking keyboard full of gunk if you didn't clean it out eventually -- but it'd keep typing.)
Not sure this is really something deserving of a recall though? It's more of an awareness that on a machine this light and thin and with this design, you HAVE to make more of an effort to keep it clean.
Self-destructing products have been the NORM for over a decade.
It's no accident that you can't easily repair the keyboard--a wear item in a laptop. Apple (like everyone else) wants you to just throw it away and buy a new one. They've been training an entire generation to accept this as normal. Nothing lasts as long as it used to: dishwashers, refrigerators, phones, you name it. It's all made like crap that fails or severely degrades after a year and there is no way to repair it. Chuck it and BUY A NEW ONE. Repeat every year or two.
Get a decent static analysis tool that can tell the difference between your code and static strings and resources and can be told to only spell check said strings and resources.
The Jobsian obsession with thin keyboards really does go way back.
Their first computer after the Apple ][e, the Apple //c, introduced in 1984, had really-loud-yet-flimsy keys that would get stuck or would register only intermittently over time. Their successor to that, the Apple IIgs, also had a thin crappy keyboard. The first Mac's keyboard was little but at least full-travel. An early MacBook had a crap membrane keyboard that buckled and tore through in the center of each key eventually. Then came the heavy, machined aluminum, detached metal keyboard with the mushy $1 pocket calculator button innards.
It's almost always been bad.
Seriously, there's some attempts at stock manipulation going on here. They release q2 on May 1st.
I fucking hate Apple but this shit has no place.
Ha! I don't take the words from that "Casey Johnston" (But who the heck is it anyway??) Only one single piece of dust has been gotten into the keyboard in months?? Seriously?
I lucked out that Apple decided to be "brave" by adding that Touch bar and added too few USB-C ports while stripping the rest out. Otherwise I would've upgraded from my MacBook Pro 2014 and been hosed with that keyboard bug to boot.
And I should have to do this... why?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I highly recommend Corsair mechanical gaming keyboards. They/some come with Cherry mechanical switches. You can get clicky or silent, and smooth or tactile (which might or might not technically be "buckling spring" but feels exactly like a spring buckling). Fantastic to type on.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
> Apple's relative silence on this issue for existing customers is deafening.
When has Apple NOT been silent unless the news becomes viral? When they do open their marketing piehole, they'll probably recommend that users switch to an iPad or upgrade to their latest user-hostile monstrosity.
... they will let the MBP line languish, just like they have done with the Macbook Pro. Their excuse will probably be similar, that they took their time to redesign the computer (which different than "we screwed up and had to redo it"). Since the iPhone bubble, Apple doesn't care about their computers. Which, to be honest, kind of makes sense given that Microsoft had to keep Apple alive due to poor sells of computers...
Apple proves once again that shiny shit still sticks and a sucker is born every minute.
Because you're holding it wrong
... they could quit using horrifically subpar Apple products. Unlikely though, given that they're brainwashed dupes who'll buy any garbage that Apple sells. Quality isn't relevant to them, they're just want whatever is fashionable.
Hah. Wait... before I laugh too hard... you don't actually work for Apple, do you?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I was being 100% facetious... forgot sarcasm tag
So was I ;)
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
You shouldn't have to because of a keyboard, but you should do it anyway out of a sense of professionalism.
And I do; in fact, my IDE does so in realtime. 99% of what it catches shouldn't be a keyboard failure on a $2000 machine, though.
For the record, this was posted from a different machine.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
When I pull out my old mid 2012 macbook pro, the keyboard makes it feel like I've travelled into the future. My new MBP has a feature where keys randomly do not work. It's proudest moment was when a certain key quit working when I typed in my direct deposit routing number on my tax return. Luckily, I caught it before I submitted the return.