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US Cities Lose Tree Cover Just When They Need It Most (scientificamerican.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Scientific evidence that trees and green spaces are crucial to the well-being of people in urban areas has multiplied in recent decades. Conveniently, these findings have emerged just as Americans, already among the most urbanized people in the world, are increasingly choosing to live in cities. The problem -- partly as a result of that choice -- is that urban tree cover is now steadily declining across the U.S.

A study in the May issue of Urban Forestry & Urban Greening reports metropolitan areas are experiencing a net loss of about 36 million trees nationwide every year. That amounts to about 175,000 acres of tree cover, most of it in central city and suburban areas but also on the exurban fringes. This reduction, says lead author David Nowak of the U.S. Forest Service (USFS), translates into an annual loss of about $96 million in benefits -- based, he says, on "only a few of the benefits that we know about." The economic calculation involves several such benefits that are relatively easy to express in dollar terms -- the capacity of trees to remove air pollution, sequester carbon, conserve energy by shading buildings and reduce power plant emissions.

73 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Compensating by zmaragdus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    With the emerging (but still very small) movement to add a lot of plants to the roofs / sides of buildings, I would like to see a study making a quantitative evaluation as to how much said plants can compensate for the loss of trees.

    --
    (((dB)))
    1. Re:Compensating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's such an effective argument to start by insulting those you need to convince, especially when you start with a bald faced lie and end it with a insult. Always worked for me in the past. Just get angry and start insulting somebody and they are SURE to see that you are serious and listen to you.

      Has it ever occurred to you that conservatives do care about such things but their perspective of what should be done differs from your perspective?

      You may not agree with others, but what has happened to actively engaging in a meaningful debate and not just talking past folks? What is it about the internet that breads such idiotic behavior?

    2. Re:Compensating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lots of trees out here in suburb land, which isn't even close to rural land.

      Why are you city folk cutting down your trees? To put up more high rises?

    3. Re:Compensating by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With the emerging (but still very small) movement to add a lot of plants to the roofs / sides of buildings, I would like to see a study making a quantitative evaluation as to how much said plants can compensate for the loss of trees.

      I don't know, but I can take a semi-educated guess. Old forests with mature trees typically (that is, for almost all species) sequester more carbon than young ones which are still growing. It seems counterintuitive, but the key is that old forests have substantially more biomass — the trees have to respirate in order to maintain it, and it's their respiration which is the basis of most of the benefits of trees. Therefore, the benefits will essentially scale with the biomass, which is to say that trees are more beneficial.

      Some of the benefits of trees are irrespective of their biomass, for example their effect on albedo. This can as easily be produced by leafy salad greens as a redwood tree. But carbon sequestration, air filtration, and regulation of humidity (just off the top) are all linked to biomass.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Compensating by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Old forests with mature trees typically (that is, for almost all species) sequester more carbon than young ones which are still growing.

      Is that supposed to be a joke?
      Obviously it is the opposite around, growing trees convert CO2 into wood ... grown out trees only "breath" to stay alive.

      The time before last (approximately) that this came up, I did the research, looked it up, and provided a citation that proved my point. I'm not going to do your homework for you here, because I've already done it and posted the results here on Slashdot (with links). It is a fact that for the vast majority of tree species, mature forests sequester more carbon than new growth. Go forth and prove me wrong if you think you can. I'll check back. But this is why using trees for carbon sequestration, while still a great option, a) doesn't happen quickly and b) requires ongoing maintenance. Nations that have funding for planting trees require ongoing inspection to ensure that the trees are actually successful, for example.

      P.S. That's why we call it "counter-intuitive"

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Compensating by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      At least the ecosystem of a plant in the roof is a lot smaller than the ecosystem of a tree in forest.

    6. Re:Compensating by Tool+Man · · Score: 4, Informative

      You know those colored bands, known as "rings", in wood? The ones that are created anew year after year? What do you think they're made of?

      Now, consider that they'll often be roughly the same thickness on average each year. Each circle is larger than the one before, so it's layering on more circumference all the time. As long as the tree is still alive, it's adding more to the trunk alone.

      I'll allow that some trees die fairly soon in human terms, but many do not. Still though, even alders or poplars are bigger each year for their relatively short, fast-growing lifespan.

    7. Re:Compensating by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Where actually would the "sequestered CO2" go to?

      Branching and branch and tree girth. Also, root system to support all that. Trees grow in three dimensions.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    8. Re:Compensating by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Focusing on individual trees is the hard way to approach the problem. If you think about the ecosystem as a whole then it is pretty obvious that mature forests are carbon neutral. Sure there is new growth but that is offset by dead old growth decomposing. The biomass of the ecosystem remains about the same.

      Also wrong. Only jungle rainforests are around the break-even point, because of the rate of decomposition. Aerobic decomposition releases less sequestered CO2; more of the carbon is left in the soil. The less-rapid rate of dieoff in other kinds of forest (including redwood forest, which is a rainforest) means that decomposition can happen aerobically, because it doesn't create such deep duff. Even rainforests sink carbon, just not very much; their primary purpose is to filter.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Compensating by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry,

      No need to apologize, just provide a citation that supports your argument. Otherwise, you really are sorry. A sad, sorry sack. Now look what you did, you baited me into proving that you know jack about shit, and jack just left town.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:Compensating by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Focusing on individual trees is the hard way to approach the problem. If you think about the ecosystem as a whole then it is pretty obvious that mature forests are carbon neutral. Sure there is new growth but that is offset by dead old growth decomposing. The biomass of the ecosystem remains about the same.

      That is NOT true.

      Process of decomposing is FAR FAR slower than the process of growing.
      Walk through a forest sometimes. You'll find dead branches decades old. Meanwhile, a tree will regenerate such a branch within years.

      Similarly, you'll find several layers of dead leaves one on top of the other on the ground - with new leaves on the trees.
      And that's WITH various forest critters munching on said leaves.

      Meanwhile, them "individual trees" and their individual branches and root systems ADD UP rather quickly.
      And while it varies between the species, tree's grow rates keep increasing for hundreds of years before even starting to tapper off.

      Hint: If the biomass remained the same, those old, wide, multi-centennial trees wouldn't exist.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    11. Re:Compensating by justthinkit · · Score: 1

      This page says US cities are losing ten times less -- 4 million trees a year.

      --
      I come here for the love
    12. Re:Compensating by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      they could always do it this way - vertical forest. https://www.dezeen.com/2018/01...

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    13. Re:Compensating by Archtech · · Score: 1

      I believe you are feeding a troll.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    14. Re:Compensating by anegg · · Score: 2

      Conservatives don't believe in science, so until they pull their heads out of their oven-like assholes collectively, humanity is screwing itself like direct family members in red states.

      I'm more conservative than not, and I definitely believe in science. I raised my kids with a periodic table of the elements shower curtain, taught them atomic theory/structure in elementary school, and didn't subject them to a meeting of organized religion adherents until they asked to go as part of one of their high school classes in religion. I'm a big fan of Skeptic magazine and the Skeptical Inquirer. I run programs for FIRST robotics so that kids can get introduced to STEM principles and concepts at an early age to see if they have a liking and an aptitude for pursuing STEM education. I believe in small(er) government and equal opportunity. I recognize that equal opportunity will not create equal outcomes, but don't think that leveling the outcomes is the right answer, either.

      I personally like living an areas that trend towards rural and not urban, as I like having space and green things around me, and I value the tradeoff of those benefits more than the glamour of coffee shops, restaurants, and the other collective (claimed) benefits of cities. I am baffled by the trend towards preferring to live in cities, but since I believe in live and let live, I understand that there are those for whom having a crowd of humanity surrounding them at all times is comfortable even though it is not for me.

      What I have trouble understanding is why those who want to live in urban environments seem to think that because they like it, everyone else should like it too. I don't understand why liberals who claim to support science feel free to ignore it when it doesn't advance their agenda. I am baffled by people who don't understand the simple concept that not everyone wants to live surrounded by teeming hordes of humanity, and that the psychological well being of people who don't want to live that way is perhaps a very good reason for why a "less efficient" more diffuse population environment is a perfectly reasonable choice for others to make. I deeply resent being constantly bombarded by memes that seek to shame me into supporting a degradation of my non-urban environment in the interests of various feel-good policies that aren't likely to achieve their stated objective of solving social ills. Last time I checked, urban areas were all more expensive to live in than non-urban areas and more harmful to life due to concentrated pollutants. The fact that urban dwellers must accept more controls on their life and their behavior as a consequence of living in such close proximity to each other is to me another reason to just say no to city life.

      Why are liberals shoving their heads up their butts, concentrating humanity in cities often devoid of any vegetation other than carefully tended artificial plantings, ignoring the the fact that the "natural" state of humanity is to be part of a natural environment, not embedded in an entirely artificial matrix of glass concrete and asphalt?

    15. Re:Compensating by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry again,

      if you had a clue about physics you knew that your link is wrong.

      Only the CO2 that is converted into wood is "absorbed" by a tree. And that only works for trees that are still growing, not for trees that are outgrown.

      But perhaps you want to nitpick. Obviously a 1 year old tree does not grow as much as a 10 year old tree. Then again a 50 year old tree nearly grows not at all ...

      Pick your scenario.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:Compensating by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Branching and branch and tree girth.
      Obviously.
      And which trees do that? 100 year old trees that are full grown or 25 year old trees that still grow?

      Also, root system to support all that.
      Exactly. And which trees would do that .... ?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    17. Re:Compensating by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Nitpicking again?

      Who the funk cares if a forrest is 100% carbon neutral or 99.5%?

      The idea that a forrest, a grown one, sequesters carbon is just bullshit.

      Even rainforests sink carbon but not in a timespan that is relevant for humans.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    18. Re:Compensating by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Process of decomposing is FAR FAR slower than the process of growing.
      Actually, it is not.

      And: it only affects the size of the depot of not yet decomposed old wood. You reach an equilibrium and from that point on it is carbon neutral, give or take 0.5%.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    19. Re:Compensating by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Yes, they get thicker.
      Hence they build wood, hence they take in CO2.

      However: is that relevant considering how few very old trees we have and how many young strong growing trees we have?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    20. Re:Compensating by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      People of most political persuasions don't listen to science that contradicts their beliefs.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    21. Re:Compensating by Tool+Man · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the overall carbon sink effect will be the combination of two factors:
          1. First, you have the overall mass that is converted from atmospheric CO2 into cellulose.
          2. Second, there is the time duration for which that mass remains in solid form, so not converted into CO2 or methane.

      The result then, is something like mass x time, where the mass is proportional to the volume of wood.

      Young trees are dramatically smaller mass; even if they get tall quickly, they'll still be somewhat shorter, and the cross-section will be a tiny fraction of a large tree. An old tree would compare to the mass of many, many smaller trees, probably more than you have growing in the same land surface area. The roots are going to be more developed too, so just that much more efficient at getting the other nutrients it needs.

      Now, not only would the large trees store more today, but they'll hold it longer. As an example, I live in an area on the west coast, where there are still some old-growth trees that haven't been logged. An old tree that's fallen, or the stump of one that was cut long ago, are still present after many decades. There is less surface area exposed, and it just takes a hugely long time to rot. When they do, they're often nurse trees, still feeding other young trees that grow right on the old trunks. In other words, some of that is still getting converted into new-growing mass.

      Those old trunks hold up better in a forest fire too, keeping much of that carbon from returning to the air. Small trees, or young ones that have branches close to the ground, are much much easier to light than thick trunks. Douglas fir, common in this area, even self-prunes after a while; branches closer to the ground fall off, so a fire is less likely to catch the thin live branches on fire unless it reaches the crown.

    22. Re:Compensating by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sorry again,

      You never stopped.

      if you had a clue about physics you knew that your link is wrong.

      Kid, you have been completely and thoroughly schooled. If you still won't learn, you're incapable of being taught. One side, peck.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:Compensating by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Add to that the facts that plants are made almost entirely out of carbon, and that virtually all carbon even heavy soil carbon users like corn are made from comes from the atmosphere, and you've got more or less the whole picture. Even in a forest fire, not all of the carbon the trees are made of is released into the atmosphere. Some of it becomes charcoal, falls over sooner or later, gets buried by duff and is sequestered as biochar. Some of it becomes soot, most of which also goes into the soil (or into rivers and then into silt) and is also sequestered. Only a portion of it is released as CO or CO2, albeit the largest portion.

      Reforestation is one of the most important medium- and long-term projects we as humans can engage in to regulate our climate.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:Compensating by Tool+Man · · Score: 1

      Excellent info, thanks!

      I've liked this saying I heard a while back:
              “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb

      While my fairly rural yard is only about 1/3 cleared, I have planted a few (more) fruit trees this spring. They'll never be huge, but will provide more shade, shelter and tasty food. I have no plans to cut fir and hemlock that takes up much of the rest.

  2. Dying off. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Dutch Elm Disease.

    1. Re:Dying off. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Dutch Elm Disease.

      Chestnut blight.
      Pine bark borers.
      Lady Eboshi.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Dying off. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Paul Bunyan.

    3. Re:Dying off. by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

      Emerald Ash Borer has wiped out just about every Ash tree in the region... they get most treated ones as well. My town took the preemptive action to cut them down and replace them with other native species.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  3. All the positive by sdinfoserv · · Score: 2

    On a positive note, that's an addition of 175,000 acres per year that are NOT susceptible to forest fires!

    1. Re:All the positive by bobbied · · Score: 1

      On a positive note, that's an addition of 175,000 acres per year that are NOT susceptible to forest fires!

      Not everybody lives in California...(ducking for cover...)

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  4. I like trees, but by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    What is the "just when they need it most" part? Is there a sudden, unforeseen shortage of firewood or lumber in the cities?

    I'm guessing the submitter must've been recently watching one of those movies where the hero's gun jams just as the bad guy comes around the corner with his own gun drawn.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re: I like trees, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Google "urban heat islands." As summers get longer and hotter, the problem is exacerbated in cities due to low albedo surfaces, heat retention by high thermal mass cement and asphalt, and runoff of surface water that in other areas would be absorbed by the soil. As a result, cities end up being several degrees hotter than their surrounding regions. Vegetative cover helps to offset these effects.

    2. Re: I like trees, but by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Compare what it looked like in the 50s vs. today

      In the 50s: A wasteland of dirt and rocks

      Today: A wasteland of asphalt and cement

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. Canada by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    This is one reason why I never left Canada. You have to move certain places to find it, but you can still find an affordable house on a well-treed lot, 20-30 minutes away from work here.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Canada by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but the work is building igloos.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Canada by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the work is building igloos.

      We built log cabins and we liked it!

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:Canada by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are not part of Canada, at least if you look at house prices.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    4. Re:Canada by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you would never find anything like that anywhere else in the planet. Only Canada.

    5. Re:Canada by Strider- · · Score: 1

      You must be in a province other than British Columbia...

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    6. Re:Canada by Drethon · · Score: 1

      This is one reason why I never left Canada. You have to move certain places to find it, but you can still find an affordable house on a well-treed lot, 20-30 minutes away from work here.

      Got that in Michigan, not too far from one of the major cities. Of course now I'm putting 40 miles a day on my car, driving a route with no buses, compared to 20 miles a day when I was more in the city (driving a route that buses would have taken an hour and a half...). Win some, lose some...

  6. Re:fuck trees by bobbied · · Score: 1

    fuck trees, they don't pay rent on my property so they can go ahead and die

    To each their own.. Personally I'm growing some really nice Live Oaks in the front yard and a couple of Pecan's in the back. Over the last 10 years they've been growing quite well.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  7. Disease prevention by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 1

    As mentioned by others, trees can get sick and die. But, government agencies can (and usually do) over-react to finding any sign of disease or insect attack, and wipe out entire species from any area that MIGHT be affected. Find a particular beetle in a trap? All trees of that type within 500' are cut down within a week.

    One of the local colleges planted a lot of fast-growing trees around campus at the turn of the 21st century, as they expanded the "green spaces". Virtually all of those trees are gone now, replaced with "decorative prairie grass", because they chose the WRONG fast-growing trees.

  8. Re:Green China by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

    I guess you weren't in Shanghai or Beijing (especially Beijing).

    This NYer was appalled at the lack of trees and green space.

    --
    If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
    Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  9. Not a Choice by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Americans, already among the most urbanized people in the world, are increasingly choosing to live in cities. [Emphasis added]

    I don't believe it's a choice in the direct sense, but rather an economic reality. To be competitive globally and against automation requires high collaboration among experts and specialists. You mostly find this in populated areas.

    Farming automation has reduced the need for rural workers, and mining automation is also ramping up.

    If your job allows you to do remote work, then it more likely can be outsourced to Timbuktu for 1/3 your wages.

  10. Happened after Irma here by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2

    Here in Miami after Hurricane Irma I saw a LOT of trees being cut down that only had minor damage (maybe a branch or two down) from the hurricane. People would rather get rid of the whole tree rather than trim it back so it can recover after the storm.

    It was extremely depressing as my part of the city is already lacking in tree cover and this hacking and slashing just made it worse. So many people just don't care. One house in particular used to be almost completely shaded in the afternoons but is now in the sun the entire day. I bet their cooling bills will be far higher this summer!

    1. Re:Happened after Irma here by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      exactly. Hopefully, if they are in the sun, they will add solar and use that to block the higher temps. It really makes a difference esp. for cooling.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:Happened after Irma here by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Here in Miami after Hurricane Irma I saw a LOT of trees being cut down that only had minor damage (maybe a branch or two down) from the hurricane. People would rather get rid of the whole tree rather than trim it back so it can recover after the storm.

      Here in Lake County, California after our last massive round of fires, tree companies were literally stealing trees. They were coming around and cutting down trees on people's private property which were not damaged by the fire. They knew beyond any reasonable doubt that they were not supposed to take those trees, but they profit from taking them down both when paid by government and when they sell the resulting wood products.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Happened after Irma here by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      I would imagine they came home to an unexpected stump. How would they know who to sue anymore than who ran off with their bike?

    4. Re:Happened after Irma here by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I like trees. I want trees to shade my house.

      The roots of trees find your water pipes. The roots of trees insert themselves into those water pipes. A tree's gotta drink, right?

      Ultimately, I need to choose between trees or running water... or, I could spend thousands of dollars every few years repairing my water pipes.

      What do you think most people are going to choose? If your answer matches reality, then you are correct. If it does not, you either need to modify reality or deal directly with reality. Reality can be ignored... but at your own peril.

      **Hint: Reality is trees getting cut down in urban areas.

      Good luck. :)

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  11. Trees don't make businesses money! by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Trees are bad for capitalism! Why have space- and resource-wasting nonsense like TREES when you could pave over that space and charge people to park their cars there? Or get rid of that completely useless public park and put up another high-rise office building, or better yet, luxury 'loft' spaces to lease out to rich people for HUGE profits?

    ..yeah, sure. Just pave over the whole gods-be-damned country, especially with someone occupying the Whitehouse who wants to open up National Parks to oil drilling and 'development'. Natural spaces? Natural beauty? LOL what do we need that for when it can make more MONEY? MONEY is the only GREEN you should want in your life, right? Excuse me now, I'm going to go throw up.

    1. Re:Trees don't make businesses money! by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Actually, Tampa is a great example of just that attitude. They are now in SERIOUS water trouble and the temps have shot way up.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:Trees don't make businesses money! by sharkbiter · · Score: 1

      Yes! Nasty horrid treeses, They prevents us from getting the true greenses. Just to touches one burns us! Hsss! Hsss! - From "Are corporations really okay with this ring business?" by Sauron the overseer.

    3. Re:Trees don't make businesses money! by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      That was some of the most incoherent nonsense I've ever heard.

    4. Re:Trees don't make businesses money! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Actually, Tampa is a great example of just that attitude. They are now in SERIOUS water trouble and the temps have shot way up.

      The prime example in the USA has long been Los Angeles. They receive enough rainfall yearly to account for nearly 100% of their water needs, but nearly 100% of it runs off and goes straight into the ocean because they've paved nearly 100% of Los Angeles.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. Re:Green China by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

    Only thing I saw in Beijing 5 years ago was an orange haze... maybe there were some trees there.

    Now Chongqing is a different story but that's due mostly to the mountainous region surrounding the city.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  13. Hiding places ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... for drop bears.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  14. Trees don't pay property tax by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    But new developers bring in the cash.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Trees don't pay property tax by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      We need some bean-counter friendly environmentalism.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:Trees don't pay property tax by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I have to pay a tax for every tree I take off my property. But it's zoned lumber agricultural and if I never take a tree off I pay the minimum property tax. (which is a few hundred bucks a year for the several acres that I have)

      Of course it's a forest and not in the middle of a major city. So totally not related to the original point.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  15. Re:Liberal cities... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Liberals, you are hypocrites again. Cutting your own down.

    Pardon me, you rubber glove filled with mayonnaise, but this is a line from the article: Last time I checked, Georgia, Alabama and Nebraska had rock-ribbed, family-values, bible-believing Trump-loving Republicans running those states.

    "The biggest losses on a percentage basis were in Rhode Island, Georgia, Alabama and Nebraska, "

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  16. America needs more changes by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    We used to plant loads of trees. And up in our mountains when we cut trees, we would plants new ones.
    Now, we have California size yards such that 1 and only 1 tree goes in.
    To top that off, here in the west, our forest have been devastated by pine beetle kill. That has done a real number on the pine, killing 1/2 of the trees. Thankfully, the spruce were hold up. Until now. Now, Spruce beetle is coming through with similar or same fungus that is killing them off.
    So, rather than harvest these trees AND replant new ones (ideally resistant to the fungus or the beetles), our politicians simply ignore it.
    We really need to push lots of new tree plants in our nation. At the same time, it is useful to take advantage of the resources. If we have dead trees, allow them to be harvested and turned into furniture, that can provide jobs,taxes, etc. Far better that, than spending taxes on firemen.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:America needs more changes by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Now, we have California size yards such that 1 and only 1 tree goes in.

      You know that California is one of the largest states, and still has tons of large parcels, right? I am just moving off of a 13-acre property in an ag zone.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  17. Re:Urban Sprawl. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    You obviously have no idea how high the fines for cutting a coastal oak are. Other oaks are just trees, scrub oaks are weeds.

    New subdivisions have saplings, duh. Same as the rest of the world. Sacramento also has many about 50-100 year old suburbs (not really subdivisions yet, still mostly 'square streets') they are full of mature fast growing trees and good sized slow growers.

    I'll grant the south side isn't great. But it's hardly treeless. It's just a much hotter microclimate south of the American river bluffs. You can see that line of bluffs in the air quality maps too.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  18. Re:Liberal cities... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    When did you last check?

    Comic book parodies, and the news on The Daily Show don't count, btw.

    Are you saying that Georgia, Alabama and Nebraska aren't red states? Are you saying they're not run by Republicans?

    Comic book parodies, and the news on The Daily Show don't count, btw.

    Comic book parodies and the news on the Daily Show don't come close to doing the current Republican party justice. The reality is much more perverse and bizarre than any satire could possibly be.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  19. Re:fuck trees by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

    Free nuts in the back, potential AC savings from the oaks out front, increased property value--sounds like they are paying their rent! I'll just ignore that idiotic AC.

  20. One case by sgunhouse · · Score: 1

    We had a large maple in the front yard, but the roots were getting into the sewer line and we had to take it down. The other trees are still fine, but still it is a net loss.

  21. Damn straight by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    I moved to a big city because that's where the jobs are. Even in the moderately sized city I came from there wasn't shit for work. And the cost of living wasn't much lower either.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  22. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  23. Power and telco cables underground, property lines by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From my experience the biggest threat to urban trees are utility companies. I understand that they want to protect their infrastructure, but they destroy the trees and call it "maintenance". Put all power and telco lines underground in conduits that cannot be damaged by tree roots. That will cost a fortune, but I bet the ROI is rather high. I can't imagine that it is less expensive to have crews and equipment on hand to constantly fix toppled poles and cut back trees.

    Another option is to go back to marking property lines with trees. I live in a neighborhood that was developed in the 1920s and on each corner of the properties is/was a tree. Not the most exact marker for property lines, but one that many appreciate. Trees keep water away from structures and give shade in the summer lowering AC cost. And they look nice.

  24. So fix it... with taxes by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Tax new construction that doesn't include greenery.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  25. Re:not necessarily true by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a contradiction. On the one hand you claim it's "core", on the other you claim most of it can be done remotely. If it's core, then typically it requires close-nit communication, meaning a physical presence is preferred by the org.

    There are situations where teams are skilled and comfortable collaborating online using say wiki's + message boards instead of face-to-face meetings, but a group like that is rare in my experience. Most bosses are social people and prefer talking and gabbing over donuts. Maybe a new generation will appear where bosses and owners are comfortable with "e-meetings", but I don't see it yet.

    There are always going to be exceptions to the rule (trend) of the gutting of rural jobs, but it seems the exceptions are shrinking, not growing.

  26. Not a Universal Truth by DERoss · · Score: 1

    Several years ago, I co-authored a book -- a photo history -- of the southern California community where I have lived for over 40 years. I reviewed old photographs of the area. I also recalled hiking over a hill into an adjacent empty valley that is now filled with houses.

    The interesting thing about all this is that what used to be open meadows with widely spaced trees is now so filled with trees that distant views are blocked. Almost every house has at least one large tree. Many houses have several. I have three large trees on my property, which is about one-fifth of an acre. I also have five small or dwarf fruit trees.

    My community is now completely built-out. Along the old water courses -- mostly intermittent creeks -- the land has been reserved as minimally-developed public parks with willows, cottonwoods, and centuries-old oaks. While the hill tops are public open spaces, they have no more trees than they had 50 years ago when development first started here.

    The conclusion is that suburbanization does not necessarily eliminate trees. In my community, it very significantly increased the number of trees.