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Trump Withdraws US From Iran Nuclear Deal (nytimes.com)
President Trump on Tuesday announced he is withdrawing the United States from the Iran nuclear deal, a historic accord signed in 2015 that aims to limit Tehran's nuclear ability for more than a decade in return for lifting international oil and financial sanctions against the country. "This was a horrible one-sided deal that should never, ever been made," Mr. Trump said at the White House in announcing his decision. "It didn't bring calm, it didn't bring peace, and it never will." The New York Times reports: Mr. Trump's announcement, while long anticipated and widely telegraphed, plunges America's relations with European allies into deep uncertainty. They have committed to staying in the deal, raising the prospect of a diplomatic and economic clash as the United States reimposes stringent sanctions on Iran. It also raises the prospect of increasing tensions with Russia and China, which also are parties to the agreement.
One person familiar with negotiations to keep the accord in place said the talks collapsed over Mr. Trump's insistence that sharp limits be kept on Iran's nuclear fuel production after 2030. The deal currently lifts those limits. As a result, the United States is now preparing to reinstate all sanctions it had waived as part of the nuclear accord -- and impose additional economic penalties as well, according to another person briefed on Mr. Trump's decision. Despite Trump's decision, President Hassan Rouhani said that Iran would remain committed to a multinational nuclear deal. "If we achieve the deal's goals in cooperation with other members of the deal, it will remain in place. [...] By exiting the deal, America has officially undermined its commitment to an international treaty," Rouhani said in a televised speech. "I have ordered the foreign ministry to negotiate with the European countries, China and Russia in coming weeks. If at the end of this short period we conclude that we can fully benefit from the JCPOA with the cooperation of all countries, the deal would remain," he added.
One person familiar with negotiations to keep the accord in place said the talks collapsed over Mr. Trump's insistence that sharp limits be kept on Iran's nuclear fuel production after 2030. The deal currently lifts those limits. As a result, the United States is now preparing to reinstate all sanctions it had waived as part of the nuclear accord -- and impose additional economic penalties as well, according to another person briefed on Mr. Trump's decision. Despite Trump's decision, President Hassan Rouhani said that Iran would remain committed to a multinational nuclear deal. "If we achieve the deal's goals in cooperation with other members of the deal, it will remain in place. [...] By exiting the deal, America has officially undermined its commitment to an international treaty," Rouhani said in a televised speech. "I have ordered the foreign ministry to negotiate with the European countries, China and Russia in coming weeks. If at the end of this short period we conclude that we can fully benefit from the JCPOA with the cooperation of all countries, the deal would remain," he added.
They were already preparing to build nukes, the were never honest the deal was broken before it started. Did you see the intel from Israel?
How the US deals with them should be correct, we would be stupid (were being stupid) to let enemies get Nukes if we can stop them. Only someone sick in the head would let that happen (by the way this is what happened prior to WWII with Germany.) They burn our flags chant death to America etc. They announce themselves as our enemy.
For some sort of insanity people want to let our enemies get Nukes. How long have we heard crying that Trump was going to cause a nuclear war with North Korea?
Now we are going to get the same crying about Iran for a while from the same people. I say go ahead and cry, but fortunately as good or bad as trump is he is not all FUD (like Obama wrt Iran and this whole sh*t deal we just canned. It was a sham to make people feel good.)
You can't handle the truth! - Because I don't post left all my comments get modded down, bye bye Karma.
If you realize that this is a complex issue then why would you suggest such a simplistic and short-sighted action? Also, we don't produce anywhere near the amount of oil needed to match our consumption.
https://www.eia.gov/energyexpl...
The US absolutely can not produce all the oil it needs domestically, even with fracking. The US consumes approximately 20 million barrels of oil per day and imports just over half of that. Doubling domestic oil production is just not something that the US can do. Even if it could (it can't) that production would require a huge investment and would be very short-lived.
More to your meaning, the US could probably live without imports from the middle-east (about 2.6 million barrels of oil per day). It would be immensely painful. Certainly, many many countries would like to see the US pull out of the region, but I think US interests in the region have as much to do with the Jewish community's strong connection to Israel as oil interests.
Misrepresent the truth, yes, to help the region deescalate. Too bad Trump and Netanyahu seem to be trying to inflame the situation.
The idea that Iran, who has lied,
Who hasn't?
The point of the deal is you didn't have to trust Iran because they're subjected to rigorous inspections.
who has claimed to want to destroy entire countries
You mean their blowhard former President once made a comment that sounds like that when translated and taken out of context.
But you can't relate to anything like that.
and it the worlds leading sponsor of terror,
Whether or not that's true is irrelevant. The deal was about Nukes, not missiles, Hezbollah support, or anything else.
would not use the principle of Taqiyya (Shia being much more flexible in its use) to lie about their goals is ridiculous.
WTF? You think the only people on the planet capable of lying are Muslims following your distorted understanding of religious practice? Was it really that necessary to discredit your already dumb argument by demonstrating to everyone that you're an ignorant Islamophobe?
The perfidy of the Iranian government is well documented as is the avoidance measures they took to truly by limited in their goals to become a nuclear power.
Good for Trump.
Yeah, good for Trump. He's destroyed a perfectly good non-proliferation deal and risked a Nuclear arms race in the Middle East because he's too big a wuss to admit that he got suckered by the Fox News/GOP push to smear Obama in the lead up to the 2016 election.
Risking Nuclear war is one thing, but admitting you were wrong??? That's unthinkable!!!
I stole this Sig
What Trump did is not going to be corrected for decades. Sure, next administration may reinstate these treaties. What they cannot fix is the total loss of credibility. Who is going to negotiate with US in good fate when they now that any accord may be gone with the next administration? US has had a strong influence on the world and steady allies, because of steady policy, generous aid, certain moral high ground, and ideas like free trade and democracy. All this is now gone or on the way out.
Where is the evidence for what you are saying? Every partner in this treaty agrees that Iran has maintained their obligations. So do members of the Trump administration (James Matis). You are just a troll spewing bullshit.
It wasn't a legally enacted treaty - never went to Congress for approval as all treaties must.
It's not a treaty. It's an agreement. Iran agreed to do a thing, the UNSC permanent members and the EU agreed to do a thing, all within the bounds of their respective executive powers. Congress's approval was not necessary, because nothing in the deal required legislative authority.
We were prevented from inspecting numerous locations considered 'military' by Iran's leaders - which is the most likely place to develop a nuclear program.
False - that is categorically and unquestionably incorrect.
The agreement provided for guaranteed inspection of *any* location the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors deem potentially in violation. Iran has a limited ability to push back - they have a 24-day window to negotiate an alternative, but if we decide we *need* to see it, we will see it or the sanctions will kick back in. 24 days is not enough to hide a nuclear weapons facility from close inspection - particularly not when we have satellite surveillance and can easily see any large movement of equipment and materiel away from the site.
Additionally, a term of the agreement required Iran to accede to the "Additional Protocol", which has even more stringent requirements allowing short-notice inspections of any site by the IAEA - and that protocol will *not* expire with the rest of the agreement.
As I type this the news on tv is showing me Schumer, Menendez, and other democrats speaking AGAINST the Iran deal in 2015 - who now oddly embrace the deal they were against because Trump ended it.
Schumer and Menendez were the *only* two Democrat senators to oppose the deal. A symbolic resolution decrying the bill was passed through the House on party-line vote, and was never formally voted on in the Senate due to lack of sufficient votes. And I have not seen either of them publicly support the deal to this day. I strongly suspect your sources are being misleading on this, as they clearly are on other issues.
And in one fell stroke Trump handed Iran the win.
The US has never had any material pressure economically against the Iranian regime. We've had sanctions on them for 30 years. The only thing that drew Iran to the table was European sanctions that through the hard work of the Obama administration was able to draw Europe to the table and get them to implement sanctions to drive Iran to a deal. By withdrawing the US from the deal all US pressure is now gone and the deal is directly between Europe and Iran (what Iran wanted from the beginning). The US will implement sanctions, Europe won't and Iran gets what they wanted, the US out of the deal and monitoring regime and Europe on board to maintain the deal and keep sanctions off.
And with the stroke of a pen Trump snatched defeat from the Jaws of victory.
It would be humorous if it wasn't so bloody SAD.
Something about that line stinks. I did a quick Google Search to check its veracity. (https://goo.gl/p6ni4E)
... in next weeks’
It looks like "someone" made the claim and every single newsbot out there reproduiced it on their respective sites... and JUST that line.
TEHRAN, Iran — Iran’s president says if negotiations fail, Islamic Republic will enrich uranium ‘more than before
That's it. There are hundreds of articles out there made up of that one line.
According to everyone including Netanyahu, they were not building nuclear weapons. I guess you must be smarter than all of Mossad and the CIA put together. Or you are complete doofus.
The sheer force of sucking vacuosity is threatening to disrupt the space time continuum.
The waves of lies after lies are beating down the defenses of the still sane.
He's steering his nuclear-armed bumper car into every obstacle at full throttle, while he races down the track backwards against the traffic.
My slashdot username is truly relevant again. I coined it in the lead-up to the J.W. Bush "weapons of mass delusion" Gulf War.
I could never have imagined a more dumb-ass president than JW. Boy was I wrong.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
It never was a treaty - President Obama never presented it to the Senate for approval (as must be done for all treaties), so it was a simple "gentleman's agreement" at best. President Trump is right to withdraw on this basis alone - let alone whether or not Iran is violating their agreement. We should not bind ourselves by agreements made dictatorially by a single person.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
of what America's word is worth when they make a "deal".
Trump will one day be gone, but the USA's untrustworthiness will take much long to repair.
The rest of the world needs to recognize and appreciate that America is becoming a shithole country and move along without the US.
Isolationist, nationalist, Islamophobic, anti-immigration, anti-refugee, intolerant of its own people, warmongering, and oligarchical, America's beacon has dimmed and she is doomed.
You know what? Screw it.
It doesn't matter how much of our wealth we give away, there will always be someone like you spewing lies and hatred, trying to guilt us into giving more. It will never be enough
We owe you nothing. We owe the world nothing. We sometimes enter into agreements with allies for a common goal, but these one-side giveaways are going to stop. It's not our problem, and we are tired of all the giving.
The US allows about 1.1 million immigrants into the country every year, which is remarkably generous by world standards. We are not anti-immigration, we are anti illegal immigration, and would like to look after the safety of our own citizens by filtering out the criminals.
We are not anti-refugee, but after awhile the refugees need to go home. The [minor] hurricane refugees have been here for 10 years, we're done supporting them, now it's time for them to go home.
Paris accord? We foot the bill. TPP? A horribly one-sided deal. Iran agreement? Billions in aid, which they used to further develop nuclear weapons *and* funneled money to terrorist organizations.
You may not have noticed, but America's beacon has brightened considerably in the last year or so.
Unemployment is down, and the economy is up. ISIS is defeated, the Korean war is over. Jobs are coming back, and we got money back from the IRS.
Presidential approval is up around 50%.
We're doing actually pretty well for a change, despite all the knee-jerk negativity.
Take a look around and see what's happening.
People are starting to feel good about our country once again.
We're done giving away our wealth, we need to look after our own citizens for a change.
We owe you nothing.
I hope Iran, Russia, China, and the EU pick up the slack and prosper from trade deals with each other.
Iran? Nope. Too much fundamentalism. Russia? Nope. They've been empire-building since before the USA was even a thing. China? Nope. They'd like to rule the world, too. They're not going to play nice with Russia.
Truth is, America is still the world's most benevolent superpower. If China or Russia were where we are, things would be even worse. That doesn't mean don't fix the problems with America, but it does mean have some perspective.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Israel claims they have a bunch of evidence and the US intelligence services have confirmed the information. Is that not enough for you?
No. It's not enough for Michael Hayden, former director of the NSA and CIA, either. In fact, none of the information Israel has is new. We already knew Iran lied about their nuclear program; that's actually part of what led to the Iran Nuclear Deal. What Israel has uncovered is the specific details of Iran's former nuclear program, which explains how they lied. But we already knew they lied, so Netanyahu has dropped exactly zero bombshells with his powerpoint presentation.
While we're on the subject though, I don't believe anything Israel says. Like, literally anything. They deliberately murder journalists to prevent the truth from being heard. That's not a good look.
You want to see a mushroom cloud before you believe the Iranians are building the bomb? Isn't that a bit too late?
We have been inspecting the shit out of them for years and we know the state of their nuclear program in some detail from a combination of direct and indirect intelligence gathering. The nuclear deal has been working, and you fell for Netanyahu's dog and pony show. What a maroon.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
you don't think that's stuff matters? And this has nothing to do with isolationism. It's the exact opposite. We're prepping for a war. How is that isolationist?
As for the Trade Deal, Trump already supports TPP and literally said he wants guest workers to do your jobs to a bunch of supporters at a rally (that went over about as well as you'd expect, but his approval rating still hasn't budged).
America is exactly what it's always been, a global empire by and for our ruling class. Trump didn't change that, but no, we don't want it. Trump I'll remind you didn't win the popular vote. We are not a Democracy
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
War is bad no matter who it's with. People forget this. They see WWII and think "we stopped Hitler, yea!" and become warhawks. Never mind that Hitler came to power because of WWI, and WWI happened because of prior wars, and you can follow the chain all the way back to the Romans. And after WWI we majorly screwed up in Vietnam and Iraq, and yet we still have people who think we could have "won" Vietnam even though technically we were only supposed to be advisors there, and people who think Iraq was a good idea and that we just need more troops on the ground. At some point the world needs to just agree to stop fighting over petty issues, like economics, religion, oil, ideology, tribalism, etc.
especially if America is seen struggling to contain Trump, which it is; and things go back to normal when he's gone.
America's credibility is only damaged to the extent that Trump was elected in the first place. But after that, to quote Mulaney... he's like a horse loose in a hospital.
Trump has told over 3000 lies since getting sworn in. Trump has no credibility.
The US has done nothing to curtail the kind of demagogue Trump is. The few efforts that seem to matter have been done by tech companies apparently voluntarily, though you could argue they milked the cow as far as they could dare before doing those efforts.
We have done 0 to slow the spread of misinformation. In fact Trump along with the republican parties full cooperation has damaged the credibility of all sources of legitimate media. In short, anyone that might stop or slow Trump gets bashed with a wrecking ball. Sure Trump's brand gets damaged in the process, but I still say maintaining 41% or so approval rating with his record shows that all of his lies and propaganda work, and could possibly even work to get him reelected.
I see no outrage from his fellow republicans that Trump is not keeping the word of a previous administration. I just see them pretty much going along with it, and that means we have set a precedent where the systems setup by one administration are destroyed by the next, that our word means nothing.
The bottom line is we elected a Trump and we could easily do so again, even if the name is different or the party or whatever, so no, I don't think the world is going to entirely see Trump as a one off. A lot of people inherently believe that the institution of government is itself the problem, and that it would be better if it all goes away. Those people are of course as a former secretary of state might say morons. You may not like everything about government but it serves a necessary and vital role and should be continually improved. Hiring a monkey to go shit in the middle of it and screech MAGA does not improve anything.
How about this? Negotiate with those with treaty making authority, e.g. the Congress. None of what Trump has undone is a recognized 'treaty' in the US. Only Congress can pass treaties, Presidents can't. So if you don't want your agreements undone by another Administration don't make agreements with the Administration, make it with Congress. Anything else & you're setting yourself up for failure AND you are treating the President as a Monarch.
You may have a treaty undone by a new Congress but that's far less likely and harder to occur.
the next president is reasonably likely to just put a lot of the pieces pretty much back where they were
And then the President after him will just undo (or "correct", depending on which team you are on) it all and put it back to the way Trump has it.
Instead of this, how about if Presidents start actually representing the people of the country? A good start would be not entering into international agreements that intentionally circumvent congressional approval because they could never be ratified by representatives of voters.
Obama made it an agreement that Congress didn't have to approve because he knew, just to spite him, they'd never agree to anything he did. This was well into the "obstructionist" aspect.
America's credibility is assured by our military strength, our technological superiority, by our scientific and cultural dominance, by our economy, and by our nuclear stores.
No. America's credibility, like anybody else's, rests first and foremost on America keeping its word.
It's a sad day when a US President makes the mullahs look more credible--and reasonable--than he is.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
There's no way you have a college education. China is intentionally, willfully, and with decades of planning attempting to be the only superpower and extend their Han-Chinese ethno-nationalism to the rest of the planet. This isn't a secret. It's their public plan. All you have to do is pick up a college textbook and read countless quotes, articles, and books from Chinese officials, military officers, political scientists, and strategists.
Take in what China has done over the last 78 years and compress it down to 5 and you would scream "There's a new Nazi Germany right around the corner! They are at war with us why isn't anyone fighting back!?" Yet since efforts have intentionally been stretched out over nearly a century few notice. But scholars do. Global strategists do. People that read and understand international relations and history do.
And to say that the US rules the world. Absurd.
Absurd to even think the US has ever wanted to. The Marshall Plan is hard evidence that the US has not and does not want to "rule the world" in any sense. NATO and the UN exists because of the disproportionate support of the US. Without that benevolence there would be no global international governmental bodies. There are none today.
That's a lesson other countries would be very wise to learn.
I suggest they learn to solve international problems without US involvement. Learn fast.
Looks like they're already getting started.
And people in the US with globalist dreams should wake up and realize that you can't project a worldview your citizens don't believe in.
You've got that backwards: Isolationists in the US need to realise that sticking their heads in the sand doesn't make the rest of the world go away.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Here was the subject line of his comment:
"Ben Rhodes admitted lying to sell it"
You are welcome on my lawn.
I've actually read the whole series, and a follow on, and it's entertaining fiction.
But it's fiction.
First, while there is substantial theology devoted to the role of Israel (more specifically Jerusalem) in eschatology, they are two significant points that Christians should agree on:
1. No man can or will know the time when Jesus will return. Not by signs, not by events, not by prophecy, no. Even Christ said He did not know the time, for it was appointed by the Father.
2. The manner of the return of Jesus cannot be predicted with any specificity. His descent from Heaven is the best description, we can lay claim to very little detail, though the imagery in Revelation of compelling, one guide to use in interpreting that book would be, as given to me, consider what is written literally as figurative, and what is written figuratively as literal. For instance, though I thought of the Number of Man, 666, as a literal mark, it may be better to consider it as just sorry of perfection, such perfection being represented by the number 7. 777 would be perfection, in body, mind and spirit. But we fall short of the Glory of God.
Not many Christians subscribe to the theory of some war in the Middle East presaging the return of Christ. No, not really. Many do recognize that Jerusalem is key in God's plans, but how and when are not well understood.
It is, however, good sport to claim this, especially by non Christians, to attempt to denigrate and marginalize Christians with outlandish and fantastic claims. This tactic is used in politics regularly. Nothing new here.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Had Obama wanted to get congressional approval he would have needed to negotiate a better arrangement.
And that was always the problem with Obama. When voters sent people to Congress to represent their interests, Obama saw those representatives and the voters as an obstacle to his plans. He actively worked around the will of the voters.
We see now that deals like this and the Paris Climate deal lack the foundational substance that a ratified treaty would have. And both are undone.
You want to make a lasting international deal with the US? You need to deal with the people.
More specifically, Iran wants security. The US already invaded its neighbour and US politicians have talked openly about attacking Iran for decades.
Nukes are one expensive, risky way to get that. Another is this type of deal with widespread international support.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Trump has damaged America's credibility, but honestly, we're largely trading on Trumps credibility right now, not "America's"; so when Trump goes, the rest of the world will breathe a collective sigh and assume things go back to normal -- provided they do, a do so quickly the long term damage should be small -- the chaos will belong to "Trump" not so much to "America"; especially if America is seen struggling to contain Trump, which it is; and things go back to normal when he's gone.
Umm... no. Trump has sucked the entire Republican Party into supporting his constant lying and (as the revelation today of Putin's buddy Viktor Vekselberg paying half a million into Trump's slush fund to silence women prior to the election) proven collusion with an enemy state. They are working hard to protect him in every way they can, an entire two generations of Republican politicians, from the oldest to the youngest.
Other nations will not believe that any Republican administration can be trusted for a few decades at least, until a new generation (or two) has replaced the current ones. So believing things will "go back to normal" after Trump requires one to believe that other nations will assume, with high confidence, that no Republican will again control Congress or the White House for that whole span of time.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Did you read the last sentence of the first paragraph, which suggests the detailed techniques do not exist. If you read something, read it all, not just the parts that agree with your opinion.
The "intel from Israel" consisted of a PowerPoint presentation with a slide that said, "Iran is Cheating"
If you read it carefully, it doesn't even say that. It says they were cheating in 2007. Nothing in the Israeli intel is relevant to anything that has happened since the deal was reached in 2015.
My greatest fear in terms of fallout from Trump is the collapse of our ability to govern ourselves. Setting aside what he has done and not done legislatively (he's a very weak president, and I don't think his legislative stumbling will really matter much in the long term), he is the most flagrantly corrupt politician that I have ever seen in this country. Not necessarily the most corrupt mind you, but the most flagrant about his corruption. What he has done has demonstrated that even maintaining a pretense of legitimate governance is unnecessary, and I can't help but believe that there are a lot of people out there seeing that and thinking to themselves that if they did what he did, with just a tiny amount of the subtlety that he lacks, then they would be able to get away with anything.
The only way to combat this would be to show that this belief is incorrect, that the American people are smart enough and invested enough and savvy enough to hold corrupt officials accountable, and to not be easily mislead by rhetoric or propaganda. And so I fear that this is a problem which can't be fixed, and that even if Trump is impeached it won't be enough to stop his corruption from spreading and our government from disintegrating. Though it may take a generation before the old guard are completely expunged (i.e.: the honest people who actually do the work of government, i.e.: the "deep state").
How exactly does reneging on an agreement (regarding nuclear weapons no less) gain you credibility with North Korea for their nuclear weapon agreement?
Same with China, how do you gain credibility for negotiating agreements by acting like a lose cannon to whom agreements mean nothing and can be undone by the next twitter tweet.
All one has to do is look at the Evangelicals in the American South and their support for apartheid policies to know that arm of the religion thinks of religion in terms of hate. Worse, they will construct logical arguments why Jesus preferred this, it is just that their premises are screwy....garbage in, garbage out, no matter how logical the reasoning.
1. They don't. Mossad, CIA, MI6 all say they don't. Iran wants nuclear power, not nuclear weapons.
2. It isn't. There is no such thing as an "enemy country". Land masses cannot hate or disagree.
thats more obamas fault for abusing his "pen and paper" and making all these unilateral decisions without explicit support of congress. be it this, or DACA or many other things that usually go through congress but obama decided why bother??
so the way I see it, trump is just giving congress their power back, which was usurped by the obama admin
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Ummm, members of the U.S. Senate warned Iran that the "deal" President Obama was making with them was non-binding on future administrations before the deal was made unless it was ratified by the Senate.. This was done very publicly after Obama had declared that he was not going to submit the deal to the Senate for ratification. In other words, America never gave its word on this deal because there is a very specific process which must be followed before America has "given its word." Obama chose not to follow that process. What is funny is that Obama repeatedly gave his word that America would honor his agreements without taking the necessary actions to ensure that it actually would...and people still believe him.
Saying that America has broken its word would be like saying that a company has broken its word after the CEO employee signed a contract with another company which exceeded that employees authority and the other company had received a letter from the first company's Board of Directors stating that the CEO did not have the authority to enter into such a contract. There are limits to the types of contracts that even the CEO of a company cannot commit the company to without the approval of the Board of Directors.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
No one paid Iran anything. Stop watching Fox News.