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President Trump Pledges To Help China's ZTE, After Ban (usatoday.com)
President Trump said Sunday that he and Chinese President Xi Jinping are working to put the troubled Chinese telecom manufacturer ZTE back in business. From a report: "President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast," Trump said in a message on Twitter. "Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done!" ZTE, maker of Android phones popular with budget-minded consumers, said Wednesday that it would cease "major operating activities," raising questions not only about its survival, but the impact on U.S. consumers who have previously bought or were thinking of buying ZTE phones. The announcement followed a decision last month by the U.S. Commerce Department, which banned American companies from exporting products to the Shenzhen, China-based telecom firm for seven years.
Really, how does this help America? It only makes me suspicious that Trump or some of his buddies want to swoop in and get the stock for pennies on the dollar.
Literally, What The Fuck?!!! He's a fucking buffoon with no coherent plan for anything.
...JOBS, JOBS, JOBS! He just didn't mention that they would be Chinese jobs.
Making up excuse to punish ZTE in the first place. And now making up excuse to back down failing to get more from negotiation.
...specifically, the routing numbers for Michael Cohen's checking account~
But seriously, did any money have to change hands, or is this just Trump showing his admiration for Xi's continuing march towards tyranny?
~ C.
ZTE had been a major international producer long before entering the US market. I doubt elimination from the US market makes it insolvent by any means. Whereas the US market may have possibly been the most profitable, they didn't play nice and got kicked off the playground. Boohoo, wake up, they're just another arm of the party.
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ZTE repeatedly violated the US sanctions against Iran, and lied to the government while in remediation. Now that the US has broken it's international agreement w/Iran & is threatening sanctions against our global partners who were also part of the agreement, the only logical 5d chess move is to get ZTE back in the business of selling security-compromised devices to Americans. Using the Dept of Commerce, paid for by American tax dollars.
I would be shocked if this was a backroom quid pro quo deal with China to expand the Trump brand business interests. Shocked I say.
tl;dr Jobs Jobs Jobs!
Who shorted ZTE before the ban?
And now who has long positions?
Could it be Trump? Or any of his buddies?
The Shadow knows.
This has backroom deal written all over it, although I am not sure why Putin wants ZTE propped up.
Trump is not draining the swamp, he is drinking from the swamp.
the rampant corruption, the back pedaling on all his campaign promises (backed down on Carrier, supports Guest Worker programs & TPP, just gave Big Pharma a big present, filled his cabinet with Goldman Sach's folks that embody the swamp... I could go on) or the fact that no matter what his poll #s don't budge from 38-40%.
The first year of this crap I could chalk up to the news cycle catching up with folks who don't watch politics. But at this point folks are sticking with him out of either stubbornness or a desire to see those "coastal elites" mad. That's some mighty fine face spiting right there, Lou.
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Let me be clear - I do not agree with Trump’s short-sighted and backwards-thinking trade war. But isn’t the whole point of a trade war to put the hurt on the companies and consumers based in the other country, which increases the pressure on the other government to make concessions?
Trump is basically giving away his leverage - so instead of both countries being hurt by the trade war, now it’s Americans who’ll take the brunt of the pain. Good job, “master” deal maker.
#DeleteChrome
What an asshole.
"When there’s a detour because of road construction, do you continue to drive straight ahead at full speed, mowing down the road crew, because that was your original plan?"
You do if the whole point of driving by the detour was to smash into the road crew.
These sanctions were supposed to have the effect they are having on ZTE. They were supposed to hurt them a lot. Now he's reversing course because the sanctions actually worked? What type of example is that supposed to set for the future? "Sure, the US might put crippling sanctions on us over our actions but if we apologize they'll make it all better!"
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
The bribery check cleared, Trump is now our friend.
... after China.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I think russia has something bad on President Trump so it colors my reaction to his actions which favor russia and literally meeting with Putin and his staff without another u.s. citizen present (not even an interpreter).
But in this case, I think he just adores dictators/strongmen and china flatters Mr. Trump and he sucks it up. At least I don't suspect he's a chinese agent.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Interesting to see what deals are going in the background. It will be a bit of a tightrope renegotiating the 800 billion+ yearly deficit with China. We have manufacturing jobs returning to America, though it's been historically very difficult to do deals within China without having to sign over IP etc. While that seems to be changing, I don't think we have enough 'high-margin' areas yet-opened up with China, either in terms of reciprocal tax rate or being able to have substantial ownership of Chinese side companies. p.s. Seems to be a bit of a poltical DNC advocate storm on this page - If you're simply posting 'drumpf bad', don't bother.
Where is the insight in that tiny bit of fluff? There is an obvious peculiarity here: "Trump says America first, but NOT if it will hurt ZTE!" Not that the lie or self-contraindication is peculiar as regards Trump. The peculiar question is "Why?" Two obvious answer candidates:
(1) Trump is begging Xi to lean on little Kim Jong-Un to play nice next month. I do think Kim is insane, but not nearly insane enough to trust Trump, and it is possible that Trump realizes how embarrassing this fiasco could become. Libya model indeed.
(2) Someone is making money on this scam. Who did Trump telephone about this course reversal? Hint: Look for "sharp" investors who suddenly bought up a bunch of ZTE shares. In this case, we're back to the question of whether or not Trump got his own beak wet.
Actually reminds me of the ongoing Cohen fiasco. Was Cohen keeping all the loot, or was he kicking some back to Trump? In either case, it's going to be really hard to pardon him (which means Cohen is going to flip and drag ALL of Trump's skeletons out of the closet).
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Maybe this is a brilliant move to show China that the US can win a trade war. He found an opportunity to bring a bring Chinese company to the edge of disaster, then calls up his counterparts in the Chinese government and says "Ya know, I *could* save ZTE, and those of us in the know could make a lot of money now that the stock sank, but here's what I want in return..."
> Who did Trump telephone about this course reversal? Look for "sharp" investors who suddenly
The trump crime family has a lot of business in china (for example, most of ivanka's merch is sourced from china). The "sharp" investor here could be trump himself, fishing for bribes that will be routed through his subsidiaries in country. It would not be unprecedented, almost immediately within a month of inauguration, china granted his family trademarks that they had been stalling on.
Also, it should be pointed out, that ZTE was banned because they violated the sanctions on Iran. That's about the most damning proof that Benedict Donald DGAF about actually containing Iran.
So, from various news sources, the U.S. Commerce Department banned American companies from exporting products to ZTE for seven years because:
The U.S. government accused ZTE of violating a March 2017 settlement in which the firm pleaded guilty and agreed to pay $1.19 billion for illegally shipping telecommunications equipment to Iran and North Korea.
Now, after Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal, he threatens European countries with sanctions if they continue the nuclear deal with Iran (w/o the US). Is he going to stand by that or fold if/when companies complain? How about if ZTE starts shipping things to Iran again? (Of course ZTE isn't a country or in Europe, but Trump doesn't know that.)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Hint: Look for "sharp" investors who suddenly bought up a bunch of ZTE shares. In this case, we're back to the question of whether or not Trump got his own beak wet.
ZTE stock has not traded since April 17th, when the ban was announced.
Also, you should grow up and stop making up stories.
Yeah, it should "remind" you of the Cohen fiasco. That is what I was referring to. This is more of the same. He is out to help himself TO America.
Z^-1
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
It helps America because China made it a condition of the new trade deal. That deal will benefit America.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I still think Trump's primary focus (and desperate hope) is to get Xi to lean on Kim. I read Trump as desperate to get something out of the June 12th meeting, but the most likely scenario is that Kim is teeing Trump up for a YUGE punt. Actually, Trump already defined a game of reverse chicken, by claiming he will "win" by walking out if he can't get what he wants. Under the terms of Trump's own game, I'm expecting Kim to walk out first and claim the win. China's next response to Trump will go along the lines of "Tut, tut, tut, Little Donald. Let's not do anything rash."
That's predicated on the theory that China basically likes things as they are now. I think China sees a strong and unified Korea as a probable nuisance and possible threat. Unless China sees some substantial advantage in an actual peace treaty, they might as well leave things as they are. Meanwhile Bolton keeps braying about the "Libya model" and Kim knows exactly how that one worked out. No sane dictator would give up his nukes to follow Qaddafi's lead.
My reasoning certainly could be flawed. I actually expected China to make a move before this. I figured the Chinese would offer Trump a deal of North Korea for Taiwan. I still think China is confident that they can integrate Taiwan with little problem and enormous profit, while South Korea would be kept busy for decades trying to heal and integrate North Korea. The lack of official peace in Korea has been mostly harmless, but the establishment of an independent Taiwan would really piss them off.
However the troll did raise an interesting point regarding the insider trading, though I certainly can't take it on his say so. So how else could smart insiders profit from their phone calls with Trump if they don't want to be so obvious as playing with ZTE? Future contracts? Gambles on related companies, both suppliers and customers?
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I still think Trump's primary focus (and desperate hope) is to get Xi to lean on Kim.
Seems like a foolish move. North Korea is the jewel in China global strategy crown. It is is one of the main reasons they can get away with Taiwan, Tibet, Spratly Islands, Africa etc. and give them a big security lever to allow their expansion plans. They will not give that up easily, and they already have Taiwan so it's not a big enough carrot.
Oh, yeah. All the Chinese people who were buying ZTE phones will go 'huh' and buy an American brand phone instead.
Everyone's merchandise is sourced from China, it's kind of their thing.
The crackdown on China phones could be to force them to install surveilance and bugging software for the NSA. Once that is accomplished the pressure would be removed.
I'm kind of unclear on your point. Most of your comment seems to be about the relative value of Taiwan versus North Korea (and I think I agree with your assessment there), but you quoted the part of my comment that was narrowly focused on the meeting next month.
Let me clarify that I think Xi could put enormous pressure on Kim to do various things, but I'm pretty sure he won't. In fact, one possible explanation for what is happening is that Xi wants to reduce Trump to Kim's level on the world stage, sort of a noisy nuisance that no one takes too seriously. (Same as Trump always was, but he never understood that and Trump is now living in total denial of reality.)
However I am sure I disagree with you on the last part. China does not "have Taiwan" the way they want to have it. The trade ties are important, but they know they could get a much better deal with a few divisions stationed there. Also that would take care of any mumbling about independence.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I think that theory has crossed into conspiracy terrain. It would be much easier to get the malware integrated into the components at the American end. Actually, they probably wouldn't add the malware itself, but the hidden capability to trigger the installation of malware at some later date. That way they could avoid exposing anything to the Chinese, but all of the devices made with the components would be ready to go whenever needed.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Given China lackluster record in "integrating" the hearts and minds of the Hong Kong residents, who were basically tossed to the wolves by the British after 99 years of dutifully generated revenues for the British Empire. Despite some last minute electoral reforms by the British prior to the 1997 hand over to China, Hong Kong was basically a colonial subject of the Crown without a tradition of electing its own executives.
Taiwan, on the other hand, thanks to continuous US intervention since WWII, has blossomed into a fractious democracy, along with the requisite shares of protests, counter-protesters, counter-counter-protests.... and etc. Streets protest is almost a national past time, enjoyed by all demographic, from the young to the old, regardless of sexual orientation, or ethnic origin. Not to mentioned that unlike Hong Kong, Taiwan has its own military.
Whether or not Taiwan's military that is being rapidly eclipsed by the Chinese military can hold its own against the Chinese is a vexing question for the island residents. However, the strategic value of loosing Taiwan to China mean loosing our pave paws radar in Taiwan, loosing our first island of defense against China and allowing China to control the sea lane that connects Japan and Korea to the half the world and their oil supply.
Taiwan also has a fairly globalized semiconductor sector. Any disruption will be felt across the world. Any damage to Taiwan's infrastructure means rapid price inflation for anything good with semiconductor inside. Fab equipment aren't usually the type people can buy in quantities immediately.
Given the rise of authoritarian China, the long term strategic and short term financial importance of a democratic Taiwan to people who enjoy free speech, especially in the digital medium, cannot be overstated.
Sadly, to our smarter-than-thou president, it's all tl;dr. He is just happy to have found his NK mini-me.
SAD . . .
There, fixed the title for you.
ZTE wasn't banned from doing anything, Qualcomm and Intel were banned from selling stuff to ZTE.
Memo to non-American companies: If you don't want to get fucked around by Trump don't buy American.
MAGA: Make America Grate Again.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
People forget that Trump is not a politician he is a business man
Failed.
He is a failed businessman, who clearly demonstrates that he doesn't know how business works.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
My reasoning certainly could be flawed. I actually expected China to make a move before this. I figured the Chinese would offer Trump a deal of North Korea for Taiwan. I still think China is confident that they can integrate Taiwan with little problem and enormous profit, while South Korea would be kept busy for decades trying to heal and integrate North Korea. The lack of official peace in Korea has been mostly harmless, but the establishment of an independent Taiwan would really piss them off.
Interesting. If the Chinese could pull off such a deal, it would be quite brilliant. Getting rid of the embarrassment of Kim, while getting Taiwan which they always wanted.
There are a few caveats though:
-It would require Trump to betray Taiwan big time. Possible, but even Trump might think twice about that. Breaking agreements with an opponent (Iran) is one thing. Throwing a long term ally under the bus is another.
-It presumes that Kim does not panic and attack everything in range. That is, with nukes and the artillery North Korea has still aimed at south Korea. Some of that can reach downtown Seoul.
-Integrating Taiwan might take decades. But I think China is capable of taking the long view on that, they strike me as thinking longer-term than western politicians.
C - the footgun of programming languages
So this means as a company you can break trade embargoes, then whine loud enough, and then Trump will bail you out? Why bother with laws and abiding to them if they become utterly meaningless under this president?
Given China lackluster record in "integrating" the hearts and minds of the Hong Kong residents, who were basically tossed to the wolves by the British after 99 years of dutifully generated revenues for the British Empire. Despite some last minute electoral reforms by the British prior to the 1997 hand over to China, Hong Kong was basically a colonial subject of the Crown without a tradition of electing its own executives.
This is quite right. Wish I could mod this up instead of having to comment. The UK wasn't interested at all in letting Hong Kong people have a big say in their own government and tried to get that snuck into the handover agreement where China rightly pointed out that it was kind of late in the game for the UK to want Hong Kongers to have a say in their local government because the UK sure wasn't interested in that at all prior to having to negotiate the handover.
Taiwan, on the other hand, thanks to continuous US intervention since WWII, has blossomed into a fractious democracy, along with the requisite shares of protests, counter-protesters, counter-counter-protests.... and etc. Streets protest is almost a national past time, enjoyed by all demographic, from the young to the old, regardless of sexual orientation, or ethnic origin. Not to mentioned that unlike Hong Kong, Taiwan has its own military.
This is quite right as well, not to mention that Ronald Reagan, patron saint of the Republican Party, stated during his presidency that the USA would not negotiate between China and Taiwan to settle the question of Taiwan. So frankly, Taiwan is not Trump's to bargain away. Taiwanese people are mostly not interested in joining China at any price and would rather live with their fractious democracy than enjoy the bliss of a one party state.
There seems to be some confusion here. I am NOT advocating that the Chinese communist form of corporate cancerism is superior to any other flavor. This is actually a separate topic, but I would argue that both capitalism and communism are dead and might as well be buried. Actually, there's a good argument that Taiwan is closer to capitalism than most countries these days, but it's the cancers that rule now.
My point is about the real-world politics of power-based negotiations. Trump wants to "win" against North Korea, which is not likely even though North Korea is objectively extremely weak. Kim is basically holding two cards: (1) All the hostages in Seoul, and (2) China's support. Trump is trying to offer ZTE's survival to Xi as an inducement to lean on Kim, and I don't think it's going to work. Yes, Xi is probably pissed about the ZTE fiasco, but it isn't that important to him. It might even be to his advantage to blame Trump for the declining growth rate in China rather than admit the uglier reality that high rates of growth are never sustainable.
Then again, maybe someone isn't talking to me. Some parts of this discussion seem pretty confused, even if I started the branch.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I can speculatively address your second point. I was speculating that China would invade BOTH of them. As long as the US stayed out of it, I think China could overwhelm and control the little ones. After the fact was accomplished, they would just take the nukes and leave North Korea for South Korea to clean up, while focusing their own cleanup on Taiwan.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
How much as ZTE payed to Cohen?
Seriously, trump does more for china and Russia than he does for America. We layoff here and too bad. China business layoff because Chinese gov owned business was giving American secrets out all over, and trump has to save them.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
A Chinese company suspected of putting spyware in their mobile phones, sells those phones to Iran. I could see some benefits here.
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ZTE was not publicly traded. You can trade stock off the exchange. And if you were arranging a payoff to a Trump associate, that's exactly how you would do it.
I'm not accusing anyone of that happening in this case, but I'm saying if it did, your counterargument is pretty nonsensical.
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and it isn't just
Short on the way down, go long at the bottom. It's the insider trading / market manipulator way.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Two obvious answer candidates:
Three actually:
(3). It's Trump. He'll say one thing one day, the opposite the next, and something else again on the third day.
How long has he been president and you still haven't noticed this?
I've noticed. Actually, I think one of Trump's most amazing characteristics is what a terrible liar he is. It's kind of like political humor. The joke depends on understanding the reality, and Trump can't lie well because he can't recognize such basic concepts as truth and reality upon which to base more sophisticated lies.
Time for my little ontology of lies, but let me see if I can just dig up a link... That's extremely interesting. I know exactly what to look for and I know that I've published it in many places on the Web, and yet the google doesn't return ANY link to my writing. I even pushed it by adding my name to some of the searches, and still came up dry. However, one of the early hits is from someone else, who is an Internet acquaintance and who is citing my ontology as the first part of his comment.
https://plus.google.com/104092...
Hey, if the search engines [I double-checked with Bing] can't find it, then that's the same as never having written it these days.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.