Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Have You Ever 'Ghosted' an Employer? (linkedin.com)
"Suddenly, calls and texts went unreturned," writes LinkedIn's editor at large, describing a recruiter who suddenly discovered the candidate she'd wanted to hire failed to respond to 12 messages, including emails like "Please let me know that you have not been kidnapped by aliens. I'm worried about you," and even a snail-mailed greeting card. Recruiters complain that prospective employees are now borrowing a practice from dating -- and "ghosting" recruiters and employers to let them know that they're not interested.
"Candidates agree to job interviews and fail to show up, never saying more. Some accept jobs, only to not appear for the first day of work, no reason given, of course. Instead of formally quitting, enduring a potentially awkward conversation with a manager, some employees leave and never return. Bosses realize they've quit only after a series of unsuccessful attempts to reach them.... Meredith Jones, an Indianapolis-based director of human resources for a national restaurant operator, now overbooks interviews, knowing up to 50 percent of candidates for entry-level roles likely won't show up."
Long-time Slashdot reader NormalVisual writes, "It'd be interesting to hear Slashdotters' experience with this." Have you ever ghosted a potential employer, or perhaps more relevant, have you ever been ghosted by a potential employer during the hiring process? Do you feel it's unprofessional, or simple justice for the behavior of some companies when the balance of power was more on their side?
Inc. magazine blames the low unemployment rate and "the effects technology have had on the communication style of younger generations." But leave your own thoughts in the comments.
Does ghosting show a lack of professionalism, or is it simple payback for the way corporations treated job-seekers in the past? And have you ever "ghosted" an employer?
"Candidates agree to job interviews and fail to show up, never saying more. Some accept jobs, only to not appear for the first day of work, no reason given, of course. Instead of formally quitting, enduring a potentially awkward conversation with a manager, some employees leave and never return. Bosses realize they've quit only after a series of unsuccessful attempts to reach them.... Meredith Jones, an Indianapolis-based director of human resources for a national restaurant operator, now overbooks interviews, knowing up to 50 percent of candidates for entry-level roles likely won't show up."
Long-time Slashdot reader NormalVisual writes, "It'd be interesting to hear Slashdotters' experience with this." Have you ever ghosted a potential employer, or perhaps more relevant, have you ever been ghosted by a potential employer during the hiring process? Do you feel it's unprofessional, or simple justice for the behavior of some companies when the balance of power was more on their side?
Inc. magazine blames the low unemployment rate and "the effects technology have had on the communication style of younger generations." But leave your own thoughts in the comments.
Does ghosting show a lack of professionalism, or is it simple payback for the way corporations treated job-seekers in the past? And have you ever "ghosted" an employer?
I don't condone this behavior at all. It's unprofessional and disrespectful. If you make a commitment to show up for an interview or accept a job, you should be there. But through the eyes of my child who is attempting to enter the workforce, being rejected with no feedback at all is frustrating. I don't expect every employer to spend hours coaching rejected applicants, but a simple statement of why would go a long way. I can understand the rational of a prospective employee that's been through application after application with no responses or rejections that just say, "no". Very few are giving the overwhelming number of applicants that courtesy, why should it be returned?
It's wrong on both sides. Everybody needs to step up and communicate better.
Sure, it would 'get around' if you live in South Fuck, Minnesota. Here in the big city, corporations don't call each other and say 'Here's a list of the employees that did us wrong, watch out for them!' Receuiters are a dime a dozen, and they're as notorious for ghosting on clients, recruiting for non-existent jobs, and pulling all kinds of shennanigans. Few will have sympathy for the recruiters or employers. Everyone is an asshole these days, and the moral high ground remains vacant.
It's only what you've been doing to your merchandise for ages.
My sent email box contains literally hundreds of emails to just about that many recruiters that at best completely ignored me. At best because they might also add me to their "database" and have their spambot send me things that are usually completely unrelated to what I'm interested in, every half year or so. That's how I know I'm at the bottom of their barrel and will never ever get a decent offer from them. So I report those emails as spam. Because, a little respect would be nice. But I've never had any from recruiters. Plenty of abuse, though. Down to spending time and effort on a phone interview only to learn that the advertised job didn't actually exist. They kept on advertising that nonexistent job of course.
No sympathy for recruiters finding the chickens are coming home to roost.
For a long time it's been perfectly professional and okay for a potential employer to just 'ghost' potential canidates. They'll never return a phone call or email if they're not interested in you or if they change their mind halfway through the interview process because they found a better canidate. You have to practically harass them to know what's going on. This is super common in the tech world. But when a potential employee does it? "That's unprofessional." - Bullshit i say. This isn't the '80s anymore where skilled laborers are interchangeable.
"Does ghosting show a lack of professionalism, or is it simple payback for the way corporations treated job-seekers in the past?"
Yes to both.
Next question?
Respect and professionalism go both ways. Many businesses that rely on skilled professionals forgot this during the recession, and now that most of the desperation has settled back into baseline disgruntlement, they're in a bad fuckin' way.
The trend for the last decade and a half has been for employers, potential or actual, to disregard common courtesy to employees, potential or actual - even in what would be considered "professional" positions. Let's take a look at what the average person's job search looks like these days:
- A couple weeks or months of having to eat piles of shit in the process of submitting resumes by having to deal with the subcontracted, third-party resume ingestion services that everyone uses now. If you haven't yet had the pleasure of spending an 8 hour day getting your resume submitted to 10 or 12 total positions, you cannot begin to understand how much you begin to absolutely loathe every living being after doing this for weeks.
- Getting calls upon calls from (quick, call me a racist) Indian headhunters or HR drones whose job is to get you just far enough along that they can credibly reject you so they can put a fig leaf over the H1B they're going to hire anyway
- Never, ever getting anything more than a form email that explains absolutely nothing about why you were rejected for the position that you spent an hour tailoring a resume for because it looks like an ideal fit and you actually meet all of the inflated requirements
- Delay upon delay upon delay. Even if you get accepted, it might take them weeks to get around to finalizing your employment. If something comparable or better comes up in the mean time that will get you actually started sooner, who wouldn't take it?
Employers who actually have recurring problems with getting ghosted by recruits need to take a serious look at what they're doing wrong. Hint: It's probably acting like royalty and not paying wages that seriously motivate.
From Personal Experience, I had an interview arranged by a Recruiter with an Engineering Company. However, it became apparent very quickly that the recruiter was incredibly dishonest.
After going to the interview, I was informed by the Recruiter that the Company in question wanted to make an offer in person and he quoted a very generous salary. When I went to the Company in person again, the contract they showed was a signifcantly lower salary! I did raise this with my Interviewer who said they hadn't agreed a Salary with the recruiter.
I had decided then that I did not want the Job and informed the Recruiter that I was declining the offer. However, he was adamant to try and get me to accept it in comically rediculous ways by telling me that the role was upgraded to a Project Manager role! I still told him directly that I declined the offer and decided that I would 'ghost' all Phone Calls from this crook.
About 1.5 Weeks later, I was getting texts from the Engineering Company in question asking for me to give them a call back. I did and was greeted with "Whats Going on! The Recruitment Consultant said he was unable to get in touch with you" to which I responded by telling him that I told the Consultant that I declined the offer over a week ago. This turned out to be news to him as he was never informed by the Recruiter about this.
Its hard to sympathize with Recruiters who post crappy articles on Linkedin about how great they are or Candidates are ghosting them when they take this piss like this!
Do this and word *will* get around. People know each other, and even if you don't list someone as a reference, they may get asked anyway.
I had one employee ghost me. She just stopped coming into the office. Did outstanding work, been with us for a while. But she took a sudden three day unplanned/unannounced absence, then a few weeks later another few days sudden/unplanned absence. We talked, she said they were vacations, sorry, thought I'd told you. Then a month later, she didn't come into work. No reply to emails or voicemails. Ghosted.
We sent a letter to terminate her, saying we assumed by not showing up for a week and a half, she had resigned.
And six months later, I get a call from someone I used to work with, long ago, at a different org. He was somewhere new too. He had an applicant who listed my org on their resume, didn't list me as a reference but wanted to know what I knew about her. Same employee.
She didn't get the job.
To be honest, I never even considered that people accepting jobs and not showing up would be an issue - (while I speak mostly from the perspective of the German labour law, I believe this is also the case for most other European countries) both parties have an obligation once the employment contract is signed, with the employer being in their right to seek damages for every day that you do not show up and do your job, as agreed. The flip side of this is that it's also quite difficult for the employer to refuse leave requests by the employee, with a far wider range of allowable absences than what would be tolerated on the US side. I am certainly guilty of having interviewed at companies that were competitors at the same time and playing them against each other to up the offer, but I would never have signed something and then try to weasel out of it when something better comes along. On the other hand, I have also seen people take jobs they didn't necessarily want while continuing to look for better ones, and then simply quit their other job during their probation period (typically a 6 month period in which either side is able to terminate the relationship without cause). Once someone has to begin paying damages for every day they don't show up for work (or obtains sufficient awareness of this potentiality), I would imagine people would be a bit more careful about when and what they sign, and the problem would gradually correct itself.
Yours is the second post mentioning advertising non existent jobs? Wtf?
Can you explain why they would do this?
There are lots of reasons:
1) The job is already filled internally but they are legally required to post it.
2) They have a new or existing employee and they are wanting to know what they employee is worth compared to other people.
3) There is a potential position and they do want to hire someone but they need to know what's out there and what it will cost
before getting approval for a salary range.
4) The job did really exist but they quickly found someone they liked but left the job "open" just in case the first person falls thru.
5) It's a position that frequently has openings and they want to be able to fill it quickly when an opening does happen.
There are likely a bunch of other similar reasons too but most probably fall into the two categories of
either "market research" and/or "job technically exists but is currently unavailable to be filled"