Slashdot Mirror
Should the Word 'Milk' Be Used To Describe Nondairy Milk-Alternative Products? (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration seems to have soured on nondairy milk-alternative products that use the term "milk" in their marketing and labeling -- like popular soy and almond milk products. In a talk hosted by Politico, FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb announced Tuesday that the FDA will soon issue a new guidance on the use of the term. But he added that products aren't abiding by FDA policies as they stand now. He referenced a so-called "standard of identity" policy that regulates how milk is defined and should be identified. "If you look at our standard of identity -- there is a reference somewhere in the standard of identity to a lactating animal," he said. "And, you know, an almond doesn't lactate, I will confess."
He went on to explain that the issue is that the agency hasn't been enforcing its own policy or putting the squeeze on product makers -- and that it's time to get abreast of the labeling language. But, he admitted, curtailing the wording of non-moo juice labeling isn't an easy task because it means that the agency has to change its "regulatory posture." "I can't just do it unilaterally," Gottlieb said. Hence, the agency is putting together a new guidance for manufacturers to help skim the fat from the market. Gottlieb said the agency will soon tap the public for comments on the terminology and hopes to wring out a new policy within a year.
He went on to explain that the issue is that the agency hasn't been enforcing its own policy or putting the squeeze on product makers -- and that it's time to get abreast of the labeling language. But, he admitted, curtailing the wording of non-moo juice labeling isn't an easy task because it means that the agency has to change its "regulatory posture." "I can't just do it unilaterally," Gottlieb said. Hence, the agency is putting together a new guidance for manufacturers to help skim the fat from the market. Gottlieb said the agency will soon tap the public for comments on the terminology and hopes to wring out a new policy within a year.
The 'juice' inside a coconut has always been called milk AFAIR. It's a natural thing to do, to extend the use of a word to cover something 'similar'. We do it all the time, and in the case of these products which are pitched as cow's mile replacements, there seems even more reason to do so.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
"Almond Flesh Cocktail"
Its about time that Washington addresses the real problems that are harming Americans.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
that enough of the world's problems have been solved... that we find ourselves having to devote time and energy to "solving" this "problem."
What a time to be alive.
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
The 'juice' inside a coconut has always been called milk AFAIR. It's a natural thing to do, to extend the use of a word to cover something 'similar'.
It's not similar and just because something has been done a certain way doesn't make it accurate. If it comes from a plant it is by definition not milk. Milk is a substance secreted by mammals to feed their young. If it doesn't come from a mammal it isn't milk. If it comes from a plant it is juice. So the accurate term is coconut juice.
We do it all the time, and in the case of these products which are pitched as cow's mile replacements, there seems even more reason to do so.
Just because something is a substitute doesn't mean you should call it something different than what it actually is. Margarine is (sometimes) a butter substitute but we don't call it butter. If it is a liquid derived from a plant then it is (generally) supposed to be called juice. Nothing wrong with saying coconut juice or soy juice or almond juice. Just coloring something white doesn't make it milk.
oh man, you DO NOT want to know were malk comes from
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
"And, you know, an almond doesn't lactate, I will confess."
With CRISPR, I'm sure that will change soon enough...
Why, yes, yes it is.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
If it doesn't have pus, steroids, and anti-biotics in it, it's not milk.
Will they have to change the name of milk of magnesia?
(I commented on this six years ago, yet people like you are still yelping "Betteridge's!" at every question-phrased headline without getting it:-)
"No, [Betteridge's law doesn't apply here]. This is an actual, legitimate question.
As I correctly predicted [earlier that same year], lots of Slashdotters have seized upon Betteridge as the latest fad kneejerk response, and are misapplying it without understanding what it means. In his own words, Betteridge's Law applies to cases where journalists "know the story is probably bollocks, and don’t actually have the sources and facts to back it up, but still want to run it."
For example, without the evidence to back it up, a headline saying "Tomato ketchup caused AIDS that led to exitinction of dinosaurs" would be obvious crap and lead to criticism of the paper and/or journalist. OTOH, "Did Tomato ketchup cause AIDS that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs?" gives them the weasellish get-out of "Well, we didn't actually *claim* that it did".
Even then, if a question headline was a genuine attempt to present a plausibly-supported but not universally-accepted idea (possibly because it was new and/or divisive), then Betteridge's wouldn't apply.
In short, Betteridge's original observation was insightful where he claimed it applied, but it was never a blanket dismissal of question headlines, so please stop the tedious, kneejerk misapplication."
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I think it would be fair to call non-dairy from vegetable matter milk, milk just as long as it can be used as a replacement for dairy milk.
A protein rich fluid, either from an animal, or from plant matter, if can be used for similar food preparations. Say for baking could safely be considered Milk. just as long as it is noted that it is non-dairy and from what type of plant, as to help people avoid allergic reactions. As a lot of non-dairy milk comes from nuts and seeds which some people have allergic relations too, (As some people have an allergy to Milk (Allergy vs intolerance))
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
This whole thing makes me sick. I'm going to need to take some white juice of magnesia.
"Carob works on the principle that, when mixed with the right combination of fats and sugar, it can duplicate chocolate in color and texture. Of course, the same can be said of dirt." - Sandra Boynton
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Not really. Food classification has a lot of ramifications on how it is treated in terms of regulations, taxation, global trade...
Such as the 1890 Nix v. Hedden case where a Tomato should be considered a vegetable. Its trading status of a vegetable meant it could be shipped for less, because it was considered a more essential food for trade, vs fruit which is considered more for dessert type foods.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
If they can't call it milk, they should call it "better-than-milk". That should keep the dairy folks happy.
Platypus Milk
rewriting history since 2109
Underground legume paste.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The Milky Way is a millenium old trickery to confuse people about the nature of our Galaxy. This should be stopped! Not only Mars Inc., but astronomers have more recently abused common sense with their Milky Way Bar...
English is seldom as precise as we programmers would like to make it. "Bread" is defined as "flour, water and yeast" ... but various breads are made without yeast ... and bread is used generically for food (dating back to hebrew/biblical usage), not to mention using the term to describe money.
Given that the various soy and nut milks have been in use (and named) since the 13th (other sources, 17th) centuries, it seems to me that the horse left this barn a long time ago.
In some countries, Bayer still owns trademarks on "Aspirin" and "Milk of Magnesia". In these countries, the generic name for liquid magnesium hydroxide suspension is "cream of magnesia".
Out of curiosity: What name should we instead give to peanutbutter?
I don't see that as a problem since nobody is trying to pretend that peanut butter is somehow a substitute for actual butter. People try all the time to pretend that soy milk and cow's milk are interchangeable when they really aren't.
The problem is language is fluid. It's been called coconut milk for centuries. Changing it to coconut juice would be more confusing than leaving it alone.
I think the important thing here is the modifier. As long as you are calling it "Almond Milk" or "Soy Milk" it would be pretty obvious to the average consumer that it isn't dairy milk, especially as the already common term "Coconut Milk" is in use.
Doing this is common in many languages. German is famous for mashing existing words together to make new ones.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
What makes a man? Is it the power in his hands? Is it his quest for glory? Give it all you got, to fight to the top, so we can know your story.
While I agree that "we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way" is not an argument,
Correct.
your entire argument seems to be "because 'we've always done it this way, so we should keep doing it this way' is not an argument, we should not keep doing it that way".
You got yourself twisted up in your knickers there trying to pretend you are smart. We already have a perfectly adequate word for consumable liquids derived from plants. We call it juice. Marketing people keep trying to pretend that plant juice somehow becomes milk if it happens to be (or is made to be) white. If it didn't come from a mammal then it by definition is not milk and no amount of marketing BS will make it so. Call products what they are and life is a lot simpler.
Unless it comes from the mammary gland of a mammal then by definition it is not milk.
Actually, the definition of "milk" includes any liquid resembling the opaque white liquid secreted by mammary glands of female mammals. When you claim that something is so "by definition", maybe you should look it up, just to be sure.
By Definition? The number two definition of milk from Websters is "a liquid resembling milk in appearance: such as a) the latex of a plant b) the contents of an unripe kernel of grain."
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Lewis Black - https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
"There's no such thing as soy milk. It's soy juice. But they couldn't sell soy juice, so they called it soy milk. Because anytime you say soy juice, you actually... start to gag."
- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Chemically the almond 'milk' has more in common with animal milk, it is a fat based emulsion whereas juice is dissolved sugars.
love is just extroverted narcissism
That's funny.
Actually they have a strict definition of what is peanut butter and what isn't. In the store, next to the peanut butter, you'll see cheaper "peanut spread". This is because the nutritional value of peanut butter is well known (high protein along with sugar, which is fine for growing kids), while the nutritional value of the cheaper peanut spread may be very different.
Well, you can cook with both of them, put them on your cereal, and drink them. How are they not interchangeable?
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
It is TEETHpaste!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
No. No they cannot. Next!
The FDA defines "noodles" as a product made from wheat flour and eggs, neither of which Asian cuisines use in their noodles, so for many years they had to be called "alimentary paste" in the grocery store. But when you went to an Asian restaurant you got "noodles" (of course the same product).
Eventually the FDA relented and allowed them to be called "Asian noodles".
Perhaps we can call these products "vegan milk" (though this is really no different from the more specific "soy milk", etc.)?
The difference of course is there are no "noodle producers" associations of industrial farmers whose primary product are noodles.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
If "gay marriage" is marriage, if "meatless meatballs" are meatballs and "vegiburger" — a burger, why should not "almond milk" be milk?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
This is nothing but marketing bullshit intended to confuse customers into believing they are somehow substitute products when they aren't and do not share the same properties.
Seriously?! You think anyone has ever been fooled into thinking non-dairy milks are actually milk? They'd have to be much stupider even than the average consumer.
Calling them "milks" (always with a modifier to make clear they are not milk, e.g. "soy milk" or "almond milk"--NO ONE calls their non-dairy milk simply "milk") helps people to understand that they are similar, and that they may be useful as a substitute for the thing they are being compared to.
What's far more problematic than non-dairy milk substitutes comparing themselves to dairy milk as an accompaniment to cold cereal or beverages (but never claiming equivalence to milk) is companies such as Nestle which throw massive marketing efforts behind convincing mothers that fake milk (aka a synthetic "formula") is superior to their own, true milk, which as you correctly observe can only come from the mammary gland of a mammal (and ideally one of the same species as the infant that's consuming it).
I too have a habit of wanting to take things very literally, and can relate to your having a pet peeve about language.
But the word "milk" and the adjective "milky" have been used to describe so many things that aren't produced by mammals--think coconut milk, milkweed, milk of magnesia, milk thistle, milk paint (yes, usually actually made with dairy milk), milk glass (milky-colored; not glasses for milk), ... that I hardly think this is a fight worth fighting.
Unless you're the dairy industry, of course. Then, you have big money to lobby the government to change widely-understood and accepted language in hopes of making dairy substitutes less attractive and marketable to your customers. Especially when you have a government in power that is actually even more friendly to massive, well-established "homeland" industries than those of decades past.
I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
Call it animal udder secretion and he how the kids will love to drink that.