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The Tech Industry's War On Kids (curry.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader RoccamOccam summarizes an article now circulating on the web sites of several schools: Child and adolescent psychologist Richard Freed writes, "...parents have no idea that lurking behind their kids' screens and phones are a multitude of psychologists, neuroscientists, and social science experts who use their knowledge of psychological vulnerabilities to devise products that capture kids' attention for the sake of industry profit. What these parents and most of the world have yet to grasp is that psychology—a discipline that we associate with healing—is now being used as a weapon against children."

Stanford psychology researcher B.J. Fogg, has developed the "Fogg Behavior Model", which he claims is a well-tested method to change behavior and, in its simplified form, involves three primary factors: motivation, ability, and triggers. Describing how his formula is effective at getting people to use a social network, the psychologist says in an academic paper that a key motivator is users' desire for "social acceptance," although he says an even more powerful motivator is the desire "to avoid being socially rejected."

Ramsay Brown, the founder of Dopamine Labs, says in a KQED Science article, "We have now developed a rigorous technology of the human mind, and that is both exciting and terrifying. We have the ability to twiddle some knobs in a machine learning dashboard we build, and around the world hundreds of thousands of people are going to quietly change their behavior in ways that, unbeknownst to them, feel second-nature but are really by design."

67 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. They do it to adults as well by Paleolibertarian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As long as they don't come to your house and shoot you then "War" is a misnomer. More like persuasion.

    1. Re:They do it to adults as well by war4peace · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes really.
      It's not a war. War involves the other party being an enemy.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:They do it to adults as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And yet if the enemy is destroyed or converted to a purpose no shots need be fired, as in a cold war or a coup or propaganda war, etc. You are not "really" thinking this through. Campaign is campaign, shots are shots. War is overbroad.

      The use of "war on" as a media term is overused. The term retains its meaning despite that fail.

    3. Re: They do it to adults as well by maestroX · · Score: 1

      So there never been babies or pacifists at war?

    4. Re:They do it to adults as well by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      By your description, cyberattacks, poison gas and even ICBMs aren't weapons of war.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    5. Re:They do it to adults as well by war4peace · · Score: 1

      And yet if the enemy is destroyed or converted to a purpose no shots need be fired, as in a cold war or a coup or propaganda war, etc. You are not "really" thinking this through. Campaign is campaign, shots are shots. War is overbroad.

      The use of "war on" as a media term is overused. The term retains its meaning despite that fail.

      There still needs to be an enemy.
      Customers, clients, users, etc. are not enemies, they're buddies which the corporations want to turn into lovers.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    6. Re:They do it to adults as well by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      I agree that ICBMs are weapons of war. So are cyberweapons. And so is psychological manipulation. Anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.

      The OP definitely said ICBMs weren't, although he could probably fix that through a clarification. But even then his point doesn't make sense, so I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt with the least stupid thing he could have said. Because he devoted less effort to his statement than you or I have in discussing it.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    7. Re:They do it to adults as well by cas2000 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Libertarians believe that only physical violence or the direct threat of it can be coercion, and even then only when it comes from poor or black people.

      Violence from angry white men is just self-defence by the most oppressed people ever to exist in the world, or sometimes it's necessary discipline for their women, children, and other property.

    8. Re: They do it to adults as well by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      We tried that, but the babies were really crap marksmen even after months of training.

    9. Re: They do it to adults as well by war4peace · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is becoming retarded.
      The title says: The Tech Industry's War On Kids” - implying the tech industry sees kids as an enemy. This is not correct.
      They see kids as products, not as enemies. So the tech industry doesn't wage a war. Is this so hard to comprehend?

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    10. Re:They do it to adults as well by Paleolibertarian · · Score: 1

      A cyber attack is a type of trespass which can cause economic and consequently physical harm. It can also cause direct physical harm such as hacking a car's computer or a drone.

    11. Re:They do it to adults as well by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, fucking with the brains of children to damage them psychological for life, not the same. Why is this different from paedophiles grooming children to exploit them, of course it is different the paedophiles do it to a child here and there, the corporations do it on a mass scale. They are actively promoting sex to children, why, what are the corporate executives after http://pediatrics.aappublicati..., https://www.uow.edu.au/~sharon....

      How damning is that stuff, is profit all that psychopath corporate executives are after, they know, they full well know all the harm they cause. Not only do they not care but it seems very much like they want the outcomes. Are corporations mass grooming children for their corporate executives, so that those corporate executives can access and abuse those children after their databases have exposed the most accessible and exploitable ones.

      This is starting to look real sick probably because it is real sick.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    12. Re: They do it to adults as well by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 2

      They see kids (and users ingeneral) as raw material.

      It's not a war on kids, it's the same old war for eyeballs.

    13. Re: They do it to adults as well by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 1

      Executives are at the behest of stock holders. They are legally required to make them as much profit as possible.

    14. Re: They do it to adults as well by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

      This statement is not true and you will be unable to post a link or reference to the statute or other legal document that supports your claim that they are "legally required" because they are not.

    15. Re: They do it to adults as well by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 1

      Contractually, then. IANAL. Same difference: If they fail to make as much profit as possible, they will go to jail and be replaced with someone else.

      The point is that the world does not revolve around them.
      If you own enough stock, you have a say in how a company operates. And most stock-holders don't care about what a company does, they care about how much money they can make from it, through dividends or, more often, fluctuations in the company value. And if that is not enough, by asset stripping.

      If you are in the position of an executive, do you think you are at liberty to not do things that put money into your investors' pockets just because they are morally repugnant?

      And those stock-holders often aren't even individual people either, but funds with their own policies, policies which might be set up with the purpose of protecting their investors against being cheated out of profits or other morally repugnant practices.

    16. Re: They do it to adults as well by chihowa · · Score: 1

      "War" is definitely hyperbolic, but you paint the situation as much more benign than it is. It's a exploitative relationship, where one party is generally (and legally) regarded as unfit to make sound decisions for themselves. Exploitation of minors and the mentally unsound is regarded as pretty damn heinous by our society, apparently except when it comes to advertising. When the advertising industry starts using psychologists to manipulate children and influence their behavior against their (and their parents') knowledge or consent, it definitely crosses a line.

      And anyway, in an exploitative situation, the exploiter doesn't have to view the object of exploitation as an enemy for a war-like situation. Slaveholders didn't see their slaves as the enemy, but the slaves sure as hell saw the slaveholders as the enemy.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    17. Re: They do it to adults as well by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Totally agreed. Therefore, the title is wrong :)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    18. Re: They do it to adults as well by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I'm not American. It's impossible for me to defend a foreign politician. Also, it's impossible for me to defend any politician whatsoever.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    19. Re: They do it to adults as well by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      Indeed. And this is also true with TV advertising, which has been around for a long time. So...isn't it up to the parents to freaking limit their kids' screen time?

  2. Welp, better grow up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Learn to make your own decisions, based on your own solid research and genuine needs and wants, rather than based on what some shiny! glowy! display tells you. And better learn it fast, before you become a broke string puppet.

    This is related to learning not to fall for spanish prisoner scams a.k.a. advance fee fraud. IOW, facebook et al. are the next-gen nigerian royalty.

    1. Re:Welp, better grow up by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other words, kids, please don't grow up to become like your parents!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Welp, better grow up by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you think are "your genuine wants". Sounds like the ingrained results of lots of "manipulation" to me. But yes, you can think yourself superior and above it all as you comparison shop to save 50 cents on the thing you've been convinced to buy. You're totally immune to advertising. Good job, you're awesome.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  3. howâ(TM)s this different from Sunday church a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sadly weâ(TM)ve been engineering how people think and act as long as religion and human society has existed. Hopefully this will be used to improve peopleâ(TM)s lives and not make them better sources of unquestioning obedience and monetary donations.

  4. Only kids? by MikeMo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would we think this is only happening to kids? The adults are the ones with the money...

    1. Re:Only kids? by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Kids 1. will become adults, 2. already control their parents and grandparents, having them obey a significant part of the kid's requests.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    2. Re:Only kids? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Where does it say "only kids" in TFA? But anyway, adults earn it, so they know the value of it, and have a better idea of whether the shiny thing is good value or not. Generally, that is.

      But attacking the weak link is nothing new, "pester power" was an established phrase in the 1980s.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re: Only kids? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Where does it say "only kids" in TFA?

      It's implied by the "war on kids" hyperbole. Nobody calls WW2 "the war on Poland".

    4. Re:Only kids? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      But attacking the weak link is nothing new, "pester power" was an established phrase in the 1980s.

      It goes back much further than that. Ray Kroc was going after kids to capture the parents (and the adults the kids would eventually become) by the late 1950's.

    5. Re: Only kids? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If I discovered wallabies in Patagonia and wrote a story about it would that imply they'd all disappeared from Australia?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re: Only kids? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I'm sure he'd find some way to phrase it in a way that did.

  5. OMG Curry.com! by DevNull127 · · Score: 1

    I haven't seen that domain since Adam Curry was a VJ on MTV!

  6. Time for a by Kohath · · Score: 1

    moral panic

    Won't somebody think of the children!!

    1. Re:Time for a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Isn't thinking of the children, sorta the problem here?

  7. Why single out kids? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You think it has more impact? On Slashdot?

    By the way, calling something a "war on..." is usually in the same league as adding "-gate" to something: A weak attempt to make something sound interesting and scandalous that nobody would otherwise give 2 fucks about.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Why single out kids? by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      I agree, the "war" metaphor has gone too far. I shall call this phenomenon "wargate".

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Why single out kids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You think it has more impact? On Slashdot?

      By the way, calling something a "war on..." is usually in the same league as adding "-gate" to something: A weak attempt to make something sound interesting and scandalous that nobody would otherwise give 2 fucks about.

      It is a war, if you spent more then a few minutes on half the sites kids use you'd understand. Pure indoctrination. Parents have _no clue_ what these companies do. Hell half the people on Slashdot probably have no clue either.

      It starts with little things like banning words. I'm not talking about "ngger" (which is of itself a poltiically motivated "bad word") -- anything the left deems inappropriate and much of which may shock you. Twitch is a perfect example of this, they actually ban memes, their own memes. Emotes that have been around since the sites inception.

      But it gets worse, they ban things like "retard" (seriously). Many places are so heavily left wing the mere mention of Trump will get you banned. You can't talk about religion, immigration etc. There was a time when you seriously couldn't assume genders either though many have realized how moronic that was.

      Point is it's happening everywhere. There is no other option and people HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING. Not everyone is sitting on their collective asses like drones.

      tl;dr - Slashdot also bans "ngger" on submit. Yes kids, it's such a bad word we can't discuss it like adults.

    3. Re:Why single out kids? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It's a dirty cliché that shows a lack of thought........but somehow gets clicks.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  8. best example Fortnite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Fortnite attracts kids like flies with the cartoonish look, competetive gameplay and humoristic side parts (dancing, skins,etc.)
    But in reality those kids are used as a direct way to get into their parents pockets. This is the real way to success in 2018 imho. Get the kids addicted and make the parents pay for their addiction.

  9. Re:What news? by KiloByte · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most capitalists are sick ****s who'd sell your children to pedophiles if it meant they could make a 'legal' taxable profit out of it.

    You mean compared to pedophiles who make a legal non-taxable profit? Pretty much every religious and quasi-religious group (be they Nazis or SJWs) makes indoctrination of children from the earliest possible age one of their top priorities.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  10. "War on...." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I stopped reading after that.

  11. Quack warns: Other quacks are after your money! by ffkom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Corporations putting profit before moral isn't news - Big Tobacco still earns billions every year by turning children into addicts.

    But it is somewhat new that people of the same profession now warn the public about their colleagues being only after your money... as if we didn't know that already.

  12. I miss the Unabomber. by cunina · · Score: 1

    He was more right than even he realized. I wish, now more than ever, that he still had access to a hardware store and a post office.

    1. Re:I miss the Unabomber. by Known+Nutter · · Score: 1

      He was more right than even he realized. I wish, now more than ever, that he still had access to a hardware store and a post office.

      Do you want to be on a list? Because this is how you get on a list.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    2. Re:I miss the Unabomber. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Terrorism does not work as an approach to fight for freedom. For one thing, you hit almost exclusively people that are not the source of the problem. For another, you just give the fascists an excuse to further their agenda of removing freedoms. In addition, under this threat, many people will flock to authoritarians that promise to "do something", regardless of whether they actually can. Makes the whole thing not only morally reprehensible, but also hugely counter-productive. One of the reasons why quite a bit of "terrorism" is actually staged or artificially created by those in power.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  13. Re:Heinlein wrote about it by DCFusor · · Score: 1

    Heinlein sure got a lot of things right about what was the future to him. Hope the good parts come true as well!

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
  14. Re:What news? by hwihyw · · Score: 1

    Communists did nothing wrong.

  15. Dump social media, already. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Clearly you're not a responsible parent if you allow your kids to use social media, and you should lead by example by not using it yourself either. In fact take away their smartphones and give them cheap dumbphones that are only good for voice and text messages while you're at it, their grades will likely go up.

    1. Re: Dump social media, already. by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 1

      Stop calling it "social media" already! It's just messaging, chat rooms and forums!

    2. Re: Dump social media, already. by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      You forgot adverts and fake news.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    3. Re: Dump social media, already. by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 1

      I didn't know that television was considered a social medium.

    4. Re: Dump social media, already. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      CANCER.

  16. Science finally catches up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Science finally learns what conmen, priests, pastors, and charlatans, have known for millennia!!! Woot! Woot! Go Science.

    1. Re:Science finally catches up! by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, there is a difference between a scientific experiment and a gifted amateur doing it intuitively. The most important one here is that the effect gets quantified and documented.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  17. Re:Some of us notice. by cas2000 · · Score: 1

    Attitudes like this are WHY they end up killing themselves.

    I hope you don't really have any kids.

  18. marketing industry, not tech industry by cas2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is not the "Tech Industry"'s war on kids, it's the Marketing Industry's, the propagandists, the people shapers. It's not even new, Vance Packard was warning about this in the 1950s, and he wasn't the only one. The marketers they've had over 60 years since then to refine their techniques.

    The tech - smartphones, internet, whatever - is just a new tool that they've adopted and twisted to their purposes. Unfortunately, it's a very effective tool for them - made even more effective by decades of habituating people to ubiquitous propaganda.

    Marketing is one of the greatest evils ever to be invented. A crime against humanity - and should be prosecuted and sentenced as such.

    1. Re:marketing industry, not tech industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So...no. According to the fucking article, the games and apps (social media), are actually coded to trick the pleasure center in the brain to continue engaging with the game/app just as a drug does to an addict. Same principle....by design.

  19. blah blah by yusing · · Score: 1

    The lame quality of this post, and the lame quality of responses to it, remind me how far Slashdot has slid down the slippery slope.

    The 'Tech Industry' is made of human beings ... many of whom are nothing to write home about. This is not a revelation, nor something anyone can do anything about, short of running a million volts through them.

    --

    "You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson

  20. Journalism industry's war on people by poity · · Score: 1

    If the production of content based on analysis of consumer behavior can be cast as "war", then nothing can mean anything.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    1. Re:Journalism industry's war on people by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      That's what they want. Then Collusion - which isn't an actual crime can mean impeachment - high crime or misdemeanor. They even managed to seat a special prosecutor that hasn't even charged anyone with anything to do with this and really stupid people think it's about collusion. Talk about a fishing expedition. Let's set up a special prosecutor to look at the Democrats. Now we'd see some indictments and convictions. They're all connected.

    2. Re:Journalism industry's war on people by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Let's set up a special prosecutor to look at the Democrats.

      They did. Where were you?

    3. Re:Journalism industry's war on people by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Very funny. He was special prosecutor before most slashdotters were even born.
      Where was I? Funny you should ask. I worked about 4 blocks away from him at another Government agency. They were corrupt as hell back then too. Everyone lied Ken said. The Dems of today makes those guys look honest. The Dems now expect to get away with it because they do almost all the time. It's like Tammany hall all over again.

  21. Re: trying to scare parents about the interwebs by Synonymous+Homonym · · Score: 1

    The great white males are the establishment.

  22. The Psychology of Advertising by SenseiTim · · Score: 1

    The ad industry has ALWAYS used psychological tricks to attract kids to their products. Nothing new here. . .

  23. could that website look any worse? by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    Come on, buddy... a little CSS would go a LOOOONG way.

  24. I know by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

    "parents have no idea that lurking behind their kids' screens and phones are a multitude of psychologists, neuroscientists, and social science experts who use their knowledge of psychological vulnerabilities to devise products that capture kids' attention for the sake of industry profit."

    We all know this is happening, but there's very little you can do about it.
    And before you jump on your high horse, I went to school with kids who had parents that tried to protect them from TV, McDonalds, Coke etc (the parenting horrors of the 70's) and those kids had no friends. So the options are lose/lose. Be socially isolated, or be manipulated by big business. The latter is less bad in my opinion as a parent.

  25. Life imitating art by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

    We have the ability to twiddle some knobs in a machine learning dashboard we build, and around the world hundreds of thousands of people are going to quietly change their behavior in ways that, unbeknownst to them, feel second-nature but are really by design."

    Vernor Vinge predicted this in 2006 in Rainbows End. Turns out he was optimistic: he predicted it for 2025. He called it the YGBM, an acronym for Ya Gotta Believe Me. He characterized it correctly: as a weapon.

    Hugo and Locus Award winner for 2007. Good book.