ReactOS 0.4.9 Is Entirely Self-Hosting, Fixes FastFAT Crashes (appuals.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Appuals: ReactOS, the "free Windows clone" operating system, has pushed out ReactOS 0.4.9 just recently, which brings a whole slew of improvements. With this latest 0.4.9 version, ReactOS has become entirely self-hosting without any issues, which means ReactOS can fully build itself from within itself, it does not require any third-party operating system to compile ReactOS. Self-hosting was built into older ReactOS versions, but it came with a myriad of issues -- the system would become too stressed under memory usage and storage I/O loads. This was due to a flawed NT-compliant kernel.

Additional improvements in ReactOS 0.4.9 include overall stability and performance enhancements. The hardware abstraction layer and the FastFAT drivers received significant attention, and FastFAT should no longer eat through the cache so fast it causes system crashes due to resource leakage. FastFAT has also been rewritten to trigger a "chkdsk" repair on dirty / corrupt volumes during boot detections. Some other quality improvements are the addition of a built-in zipfldr extension -- ReactOS can now natively unpackage zipped archives, without the need of a third-party tool like WinZip. The changelog can be viewed here.

Comments

Speaking of hosting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking for a twink that can host.

DX12 Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it exist?

Re:DX12 Support?

[Rick Schumann]

Probably not at this point, and they'd have to write it themselves from scratch, and almost guaranteed Microsoft would throw a fit if you could install it on ReactOS as-is. Microsoft will either sue the shit out of them, or if they can't for some reason they'll make sure none of their software will install on ReactOS by detecting it and telling you it's an 'invalid Windows version' or somesuch.

Re:DX12 Support?

[jellomizer]

I don't think Microsoft would have much to stand on. If ReactOS happened to run the DX12 drivers just by the fact it has been reversed engineered to be compatible.

Being at ReactOS is still a Hobby OS. I doubt there will be too much Microsoft rage, unless it starts digging into its market share.

Re:DX12 Support?

[slack_justyb]

I don't think Microsoft would have much to stand on.

If you remember the Oracle v Google suit. APIs are copyrightable. So yeah, being a compatible API, even via reverse engineering and clean room, can be brought into court as copyright infringement.

Re:DX12 Support?

[KiloByte]

If you remember the Oracle v Google suit. APIs are copyrightable.

In the US. US law doesn't apply to Russia, and Russians are supportive of ReactOS.

No idea what EU courts would say. In none of these places what the law actual say actually matters: in the US, despite the law explicitly allowing compatibility purposes, there's that insane "precedent" system where whims of a judge overwrite what's written; in Russia the law doesn't apply to any projects backed by the president; even in the EU courts are unpredictable.

Re:DX12 Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you remember the Oracle v Google suit. APIs are copyrightable. So yeah, being a compatible API, even via reverse engineering and clean room, can be brought into court as copyright infringement.

At which point, the development moves offshore and Microsoft can pound sand. Of course, the bigger elephant in the room would be Wine, and I'm sure they would vacate ASAP if that were to happen to ReactOS.

Further, suing Wine or ReactOS risks getting that precedent overturned, as it's on shaky ground as is, and successful litigation would destroy the entire industry. At this point that precedent is the equilvent of MAD for the US IT industry.

Yawn.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it actually useful?

Re: Yawn.....

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Windows, the computer programs you.

Re:Yawn.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Surprisingly, it seems to be. The biggest issue I had last time I installed a copy was that since MS won't allow you to run .net on OSes other than Windows anything that requires it won't run.

But, I did find a number of programs that would run and it's getting near the point where one could run it as a primary OS.

Re: Yawn.....

[Anonymous Coward]

American soviet windows keyloggers you.

Re: Yawn.....

[Anonymous Coward]

R(ussian) (r)eact(ion) OS.
Expected to reach 1.0 (usable status) around 2180AD. Too little too late.

The IT landscape in 2018 is such: Windows for the KoolAid Club zombies - the masses, slaves, fools. Most Windows shops have some Linux in the backroom to make things work (bet your Cloud is running on Linux!). Of the remaining "10%" of users it is Linux for the sensible / competent, and a niche BSD Unix for Apple victims.
Some NT-compatible gizmo that is far behind even Wine? Why is it even sucking up resources?

Re: Speaking of hosting...apk loves HOSTig

[Anonymous Coward]

apk is there for you

This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. If you believe that, you'll probably believe that I use Linux on a daily basis. BWAHAHAHAHA! It's a hobbyist curiosity, interesting but not really good for anything.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux and BSD were hobbyist curiosities for basement dwelling neckbeards until giant corporations Google and Apple put Android and iOS into every phone.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[110010001000]

I guarantee you do use Linux on a daily basis. You just don't realize it.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I started using linux as my exclusive desktop since 2003. It was good enough for that at that time and only has gotten better. What are you talking about?

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Minupla]

My corporate PTB gave me the choice of a Windows install or a Linux one. I took the plunge and am not tempted to go back.

The only area which causes me some grief is interfacing with the Skype For Business infrastructure at work. Other then that, clear sailing.

IMO - unless you're a hardcore Windows gamer (the latest greatest stuff, not things that WINE can take care of) Linux is a solid desktop choice for even the most mildly technical adept user.

Min

Re:This is my everyday OS

[ArchieBunker]

Speaking of that, why is setting an IP address in linux so shitty anymore? Ifconfig was taken away for "reasons" so I figured why not try the provided GUI? Well now I have options for a gateway and a default route. Are those two things not the same? Anyhow no DHCP here so I set a static address. Ok I can ping the gateway but DNS is still looking at 127.0.0.1 for some reason. Try running traceroute but it requires root now, what the fuck? Play with the settings a few times and finally reboot, but not before systemd freezes everything making me hit the power button. Yay looks like things are finally working. Why did I waste my fucking time on this? Back to FreeBSD where documentation is clear and things work as advertised.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

The Internet of Things uses open source Linux in closed source firmware to deny you the freedom to modify your IoT devices.

You don't use Linux; tech companies use Linux to use you. In the real world, Linux is nothing more than socialised software to benefit billionaires.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[omnichad]

Eventually, this can be used for software preservation. Real Win9x doesn't run well on modern hardware - or at all if we move to EFI-only. We're so far from that, you might as well just use Wine for now - but there's a lot of code sharing between the two projects.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[110010001000]

Unfortunately true. However the alternative is closed source software. With open source software you can create your own "internet of things" and ignore the tech companies.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here, my primary desktop since Apple went to shit.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

We tried that, but there's too much bullshit with trying to use it as a regular desktop. Everyone ended up running Windows VMs just to get work done.
So we went back to native installs for the desktops. All the servers are Linux or BSD though, only a fucking idiot uses windows servers.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Its surprising just how much Wine can actually run. I remember being quite blown away when Skyrim came out, getting it running perfectly , and at a respectable FPS on my mid range macbook. To be honest I'm still baffled as to why Bethesda didn't just release it to mac in a wine wrapper. A lot of other companies do and it seems to work just fine.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Well now I have options for a gateway and a default route. Are those two things not the same?

No.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I do it through /etc/network/interfaces, same as I always did.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Junta]

Similar boat. Pidgin-sipe does let me interact with Skype 4 Business, but the microphone volume management and had to rebuild to get the right codecs, so it's far from baked to get to same quality, but it is serviceable.

Also pidgin UI isn't quite as well geared as Skype 4 Business gui for doing 'buddy-less' communication, and selecting audio device is clunkier...

But everything else is effortless and smooth and no 'fudging about with source code' or stuff like that (unless I want to) outside of trying to get an acceptable S4B experience using native Linux stuff.

I don't even resort to Wine, just linux applications for everything.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[jawtheshark]

The only area which causes me some grief is interfacing with the Skype For Business infrastructure at work. Other then that, clear sailing.

Granted, I only use it for the chat functionality, but Pidgin has the "pidgin-sipe" plugin which shows up as "Office Communicator" in the account setup. Works fine. (The hint for me was that I saw that our installation supports SIP, so even a normal soft phone might work... )

Again, I don't call with it, so it might not be enough for you

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the dumbest logic ever. That some server serving up a webpage uses Linux does not mean I'm using Linux. I'm not in anyway using the OS.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[ArchieBunker]

Well routing wasn't working with my gateway filled in so I added a default route that still didn't work. Hell I've seen distros that don't even include traceroute anymore.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Desler]

What silly logic. When someone says "using" with regards to an OS they are talking about direct usage. Not that some rack of servers that you only interact with through a high-level application happens runs to the OS. When I go tomGoogle.com I'm using their web application being served up not the underlying OS.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd you should say that. I have the opposite experience.

On the odd occasions I have had to use Windows since switching to Linux in 1996 I have had to resort to installing cygwin or using VMs to be able to get any work done.

Luckily MS now includes the Linux Subsystem for Windows in Win 10 so this is less of a pain. And besides most software I use is open source stuff that runs fine on Mac, Windows, and Linux now a days. You know, GIMP, KiCad, Inkscape, Firefox, Chrome, Atom, VS code, etc, etc.

As for Wine, as long as it runs the LTSpice circuit simulator, which it does, I'm happy.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Archie - traceroute has always required root. Maybe you were just logging in as root previously?

Static addresses were broken in NetworkManager in 2006 for well over a year. I had to use ifconfig to set my static addresses.

DNS being 127.0.0.1 or 127.0.1.1 - yeah, systemd is supposed to run a caching nameserver locally. You can just edit resolv.conf by hand and add your favourite name servers manually. It'll get blown away next start up.

Protip: Don't set the gateway on your internal net (if you have two or more networks), or you'll have issues.

On FreeBSD: You didn't mention which distro you tried. If you want the same level of documentation, you may try Gentoo. Gentoo also has a systemd-free option. Gentoo's package manager is emerge, and the entire build system reminded me of FreeBSD's ports setup.

Alternatively, there's Archlinux, they have pretty good documentation, and the packages are pre-compiled. However, most of the documentation references systemd. While there is an option for systemd-less Archlinux, it is not as well documented. If you prefer a graphical Arch distro, there's something called Manjaro.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Well routing wasn't working with my gateway filled in so I added a default route that still didn't work. Hell I've seen distros that don't even include traceroute anymore.

Wait until they remove the IP stack.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[JoeDuncan]

...took the plunge and am not tempted to go back.

Welcome to Microsoft Windows!

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Opportunist]

Actually, in my experience newer games, especially if not AAA-titles from big studios, play lovely with Linux and more often than not even have a (more or less) official Linux port due to the spread of game development tools like Unity that make cross-development easy.

My biggest issue is still the lack of drivers for gaming hardware, it's still far from a given that you find working drivers for multi-button mice and programmable keyboards, let alone flight sticks/pedals or head tracking devices.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Immerman]

So I assume you don't own a modern TV? Pretty much all of those have been running Linux for a decade plus. No wired or wireless router? Almost all of those run Linux. Ditto for most non-iPhone smartphones. Actually, pretty much any electronics that have more "brains" than your average microwave probably runs Linux - including many higher-end microwaves.

When you can get a fully functional computer-on-a-chip with as much operating system as you want for ~$5, custom-built electronics start looking a lot less attractive.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0 was too much for people to handle?

Re:This is my everyday OS

[ArchieBunker]

Let's be real here. Linux is a cost decision.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anne Thwacks]

Let's be real here. Linux is a cost decision.

You have obviously had NO contact with embedded Windows - only the terminally corrupt or terminally stupid would touch that with a disinfected barge pole.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[ArchieBunker]

Thanks for the tips kind sir. I must be really old because I never recalled traceroute needing root access. I just checked and traceroute runs fine as a normal user in Slackware 14.2 and pretty much every *BSD.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anne Thwacks]

ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0 was too much for people to handle?

You are looking in the wrong place.

It was too much for Poettering to handle.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the point. Android, for example, used Linux because it was (at the time) faster and cheaper than developing their own kernel.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Embedded Windows probably run the ATMs and cash registers that I rely on to get fed and drunk.
I could live with no Internet at home (no more router. Bye Internet, I'll do with DVD movies, CD Audio that can be bought by the ton in the junk pile or found at the library, and dumped into hard drives. I'll need to download emulators for old CD/DVD based consoles). My phone either doesn't run an OS or runs a non-Windows, non-Linux, non-BSD custom embedded OS.

Going without the ATMs and supermarkets will be harder.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Rick Schumann]

Heh, 100% correct, 99.99999+% sure Slashdot is hosted on a linux-powered web server.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

nano /etc/networks/interfaces, and /etc/init.d/networking restart were not much to handle either, it's what I learned on Ubuntu/Debian.
Most networking without DHCP I did some 18-15 years ago, on Windows 98 you had to reboot! and if anything was wrong you uninstalled and reinstalled your networking stack (in the GUI for joes and grandmas). Do you even know how to uninstall your network stack? lol! And I always made sure to have IPX/SPX and I liked it!

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

No, routers are more likely running customized BSD

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Sneftel]

Good point. Perhaps some enterprising corporation on the scale of Google or Apple will put together a ReactOS-like (and, dare I dream, ReactOS-compatible) operating system for the masses!

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have physical access, you can flash/change/RE firmware. Don't be lazy.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't touch her with yours.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[OrangeTide]

It's Linux and systemd. There are dozen different ways to do the simplest damn thing.

Should I use systemd-networkd? Or NetworkManager? Or netctl? Or ConnMan? Or perhaps do it brute force and run dhcpcd or 'ip addr' (for static setup) in my rc.local?

traceroute isn't even installed by default on many popular distros. I guess it's no longer considered a vital debugging tool.

Just a note. If you don't have DHCP or presumably IPv6 autoconfiguration then you're in a bit of a unusual situation compared to most desktop Linux users. On a server with static IP I'd usually run Debian and I know which text file to edit to change my static IP, netmask, gateway, DNS, etc. (but such config files can be different on every distro)

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

IMO - unless you're a hardcore Windows gamer (the latest greatest stuff, not things that WINE can take care of) Linux is a solid desktop choice for even the most mildly technical adept user.

It seems from the linked change-log that ReactOS still can not join or authenticate to an active directory domain.

We have one major software package, ERP software that drives most all of the companies daily activities, that heavily integrates with AD for authentication/security, as well as depends heavily on the native MSSQL client drivers (aka no ODBC), along with a few other IPC methods that are less problematic thankfully.

On one hand I'd normally say this design choice is a good one. The vast majority of software vendors can't be trusted to roll their own security and encryption properly, so offloading that to an existing vetted system is always the better choice.
Arguably Microsoft's implementation of LDAP/Kerberos isn't ideal when compared to other systems, but at the very least the best practices on restricting and segmenting windows and its active directory is a well defined and known process.

On the other hand however, this choice also pretty much locks in a requirement of using the real deal.
Group policy is fine and pretty much expected to be excluded. This is fine for us as I would have no issues managing Linux deployments and policy using native methods. Only if I was ever replaced by a windows-only admin would there likely be complaints.

But active directory support is pretty much a requirement.
"Workgroup" mode just does not work, and Samba/winbind as an AD interface only seems to somewhat work for software explicitly written to do so, or that uses PAM.

Ironically this makes AD authentication on Linux work better for Linux software by far than it does for Windows software running on top of it.

Ultimately I would have to change your conclusion such that ReactOS or Linux desktops are not just excluded for hardcore gamers, but any enterprise that has to use or integrate with windows beyond some pretty low bar usage.

In fact that would imply Linux only being an option for the stereotypical "home user" wanting to run office, do email, and browse the web. Or for any new and small company that gets to start from scratch.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Xord]

We tried that, but there's too much bullshit with trying to use it as a regular desktop. Everyone ended up running Windows VMs just to get work done. So we went back to native installs for the desktops. All the servers are Linux or BSD though, only a fucking idiot uses windows servers.

Or somebody who needs to run MS Exchange, Remote Desktop Services and Active Directory, to name but a few systems that absolutely require Windows Servers. Any company of more than 100 users will likely have need of these services. I much prefer Linux as an operating system, but to call Windows Server admins 'fucking idiots' is just trolling.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus iTRON / T-Kernel can be found in all those things and everywhere else.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux and BSD were hobbyist curiosities for basement dwelling neckbeards... and still is.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux and BSD were hobbyist curiosities for basement dwelling neckbeards... and still is.

I use GNU/.Linux as my primary operating system since January 2000. Prior to 2000 I kept it on a separate computer between 1992 and 1999, inclusive. When I returned to college a couple years ago and was forced to use Microsoft Windows in the classroom I felt as though Microsoft Windows and applications are designed to annoy users.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Stockholm Syndrome?

Love the terrorists who removed the window function from win 8?

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure msftboy. North Korea hosed down the Sony of America AD system with ease. The most crappy nation penetrated windows with ease.

Always funny to read the msft tripe.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Minupla]

Any company of more than 100 users will likely have need of these services

Less true now then 5 years ago. As much as I may have emotional issues with it, MS O365 is becoming widespread and removes a number of use cases for needing on-prem windows servers for the reasons listed above.

Definitely viable for a company ~100 users. Arguable for larger firms.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[samwichse]

And your point being this makes Linux... ?

Re:This is my everyday OS

[fisted]

protip: ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.10/24 does the same thing with less typing

Re:This is my everyday OS

[ArchieBunker]

There are plenty of embedded operating systems other than Linux and Windows. VxWorks and QNX and the most well known.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? NK used phishing to and phony Apple ID's to obtain credentials to break into Sony. I would imagine that using Linux would not have been an advantage. What it does show, however, is Sony's true lack of security and knowledge thereof. They should have been using smartcards like "real" companies do. Does Linux support Apple ID's?

"McClure’s data suggests that many top Sony executives, including Sony Pictures CEO Michael Lynton, received fake Apple ID verification emails in mid-September that contained a link to “ioscareteam.net.” Upon visiting this domain, the victim was prompted to enter in his/her Apple ID information into a fake verification form.
After obtaining their Apple IDs and passwords, the hackers then presumably used these credentials in conjunction with employees’ LinkedIn profiles to figure out their Sony network login information, all in the hopes that the employees had used the same passwords for work and personal accounts."

https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/latest-security-news/sony-hackers-used-phishing-emails-to-breach-company-networks/

So the hackers used a trick based on a real UNIX implementation and you criticize AD. What an ass hat you are.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?
Pissing yourself over a OS that was from 20 years ago?
I have been running Windows NT systems since beta and I never had to reboot when changing the IP.

Grow the fuck up.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

sky works great for skype for business.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Remote Desktop Services I'll give you, but Samba 4 has Active Directory Domain Controller Support, and you can use something like EGroupware to replace Exchange.

Really the only places linux has issues is remote administration and configuration of an end user workstation, inability to assign domain users to local groups, and improper management of core components. Like NetworkManager being a complete mess for configuring anything more complicated than WPA-PSK, or in some weird cases Wifi in general, DNS resolvers constantly being replaced and being non-functional out of the box, remote graphical desktops not being functional at all, and development policies / culture declaring that any end user should be able to override the will of the device's owner, aka the system administrator's. In short, I have more issues dealing with linux as a end user workstation than a server. It's manageable if you're using it as a personal workstation, but completely a non-starter if you need to manage 100s or 1000s of workstations running it.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand. Are you saying you're NOT a basement-dwelling neckbeard?

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Xord]

Remote Desktop Services I'll give you, but Samba 4 has Active Directory Domain Controller Support, and you can use something like EGroupware to replace Exchange.

Really the only places linux has issues is remote administration and configuration of an end user workstation, inability to assign domain users to local groups, and improper management of core components. Like NetworkManager being a complete mess for configuring anything more complicated than WPA-PSK, or in some weird cases Wifi in general, DNS resolvers constantly being replaced and being non-functional out of the box, remote graphical desktops not being functional at all, and development policies / culture declaring that any end user should be able to override the will of the device's owner, aka the system administrator's. In short, I have more issues dealing with linux as a end user workstation than a server. It's manageable if you're using it as a personal workstation, but completely a non-starter if you need to manage 100s or 1000s of workstations running it.

While I agree there are viable alternatives to Active Directory and Exchange, I wouldn't want to try pitching those alternatives to a director of a company with 5000 users, especially when they already have those systems in place.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Xord]

Any company of more than 100 users will likely have need of these services

Less true now then 5 years ago. As much as I may have emotional issues with it, MS O365 is becoming widespread and removes a number of use cases for needing on-prem windows servers for the reasons listed above.

Definitely viable for a company ~100 users. Arguable for larger firms.

I agree that O365 is often pushing out on-premise Exchange deployments nowadays, but when you use O365 still you're still using a Windows Server, you just don't host or have much control over it anymore.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect that most people on Slashdot don't have any Internet Things. Hacker News, yes, but not Slashdot.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using a virtual Windows installation for Skype for Business because the Citrix solution IT offers for Linux is half-baked at best (no screen sharing, all of the sound routed through the headset etc.).
I was one of the last employees to use a workstation-independent phone. Unfortunately, they converted me to Skype phone some time ago. Now I have to have my virtual machine and Windows running to be reachable via phone. Granted, it's comfortable to have all colleagues' phone connections at my fingertips, and also conference calls and screen sharing. But there's still that aversion against Skype/MS products (the whole OS feels so clumsy and I despise the ribbon interface paradigm) in me that I just cannot let go of.

Concerning Exchange Mail, I use Thunderbird with Outlook Web Access plugin and Lightning on Linux 99% of the time.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha.. Windows trolls, the best kind.

Re:This is my everyday OS

[thegarbz]

IMO - unless you're a hardcore Windows gamer

Not at all. Your corporate PTB gave you the choice of Linux, that is incredibly rare. Your biggest problem is Skype for business? That's cute. I can only conclude your corporation isn't anywhere nearly as heavily windows shopped as most.

On the other hand my corporate laptop is managed centrally through Office365, I literally change my domain password through an MS account, I edit documents in realtime with multiple people via Sharepoint, a feature that only Office has, Skype for business... that's very 2015, we're migrating the entire infrastructure over to MS Teams, and that's before we say anything about Outlook as a desktop app having no equal, not on Linux and definitely not the abomination of Outlook 365.

Linux in the corporate world for nearly all users is a pipe dream due to the MS stranglehold.

Linux would be a fine choice on the desktop for common users, but many power users especially users of Adobe's Creative Suite, or other specific applications will be left out (the reason I don't run it on my desktop, and poor pen support is why I don't run it on my laptop).

Re:This is my everyday OS

[Minupla]

Not trying to be "That Guy" although I will point out your language was a tad attacky, particularly the use of the "that's cute" diminutive. Anyways, in case if's useful to other people who are attempting to change corporate cultures:

CentrifyDC will allow Linux desktops to communicate with a MS-centric administrative plane, in an almost seamless manner.

I find that unless I trip over a particularly bad document, LibreOffice handles 99% of my Excel/Word issues. For things like Visio, crossover office is easy mode, Wine works too.

Our corporation has thousands of Windows seats, AD, O365, Azure AD interconnections, etc. We also have thousands of Linux servers across private and public clouds. Oh and we're rolling out MS Teams - not my project, but we'll find a way to bang it into shape for linux, or start putting pressure on our MS sales folks, because they'll want linux users in those conversations I'm sure! :)

If I need a Windows machine (usually because some benighted Azure API has broken under python and I wanna try Powershell) I fire one up on the private cloud. No biggie. But It's been 3 months or so since that's been an issue.

If Centrify doesn't work (it doesn't for some server loads for example) check out sssd - it allows you to do things like push out ssh keys through active directory, which is handy as hell, as it allows you to tie in all those ssh accounts into your centralized identity system and avoids whack-a-mole exercises whenever someone with server access leaves the company.

At the end it comes down to corporate culture. There's nothing hard stopping a company from embracing linux as a desktop environment for their users. This is my second company which chose to make Linux a first class citizen on the desktop. If your management refuses, it's not a technical issue, it's a culture issue.

Oh and lest you think otherwise - both the companies I refer to are household names, with market valuations measured in billions. And both are valued Microsoft customers too. MS sales reps are perfectly happy to take me out for dinner at conferences.

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

On all of my laptops I get far better pen response in Linux. Well, except my Samsung which won't boot Linux. But my 5 wacom based laptops all work better with Linux.

I get the same bullshit stutter issue that windows 10 introduced into the mouse on three of them, making them unusable in windows

Re: This is my everyday OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, except that basically none of them are. I can't remember seeing a router from anyone in the last several years that didn't have Linux listed in the manual for legal stuff

Re:This is my everyday OS

[thegarbz]

Didn't mean to come across as attacky to you, but rather the notion that it is as easy as your post made out.

I fully agree that in the core function open tools work well. I myself use and recommend LibreOffice and I have in the past 5 years not had a single compatibility issue with MS Office documents. But that isn't why my corporation keeps MS Office around.

A lot of places run and are sold on "ecosystems". MS Office on its own I see as no better than Libre Office. However MS Office combined with Sharepoint, combined with Lync/Teams, well that's a feature set without compare or compatibility in the Linux world. Not necessarily a good feature set, but then I'm not the one making purchasing decisions, "I just work here man". :-)

Companies could embrace Linux, but it will be an uphill battle against the MS marketing monster, especially when they come across with discounts. MS sells on complete vertical integration and control over the entire office experience. In order to use Linux you need to reduce MS from that, to pieces of software to achieve a task.

Again, marketing battle, and a hard one at that. Linux doesn't have cool buzzwords.

Perfect, now the viruses can...

[InvalidsYnc]

<sarcasm>... compile themselves right into the OS! What a wonderful invention. NOBODY will ever abuse this functionality! EVAR!</sarcasm>

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[Anonymous Coward]

<sarcasm>... compile themselves right into the OS! What a wonderful invention. NOBODY will ever abuse this functionality! EVAR!</sarcasm>

welcome to the actual reality where virus code is written in machine code and assembled by hand

but your fake reality does feel warm and fuzzy

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly which one of all the developers around the world involved in this open-source project has compiled viruses directly into the operating system?

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, don't put the end-sarcasm-tag-here, yet.

Without the need for third-party tools like Winzip

NT-compliant?

In fact, it moves and acts like the original too closely, that the Justice Department might want to have a look at its antitrust handbook -- you know, when you start playing the anti-competetive card. "It's like deja vu all over again!"

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[Opportunist]

You might want to avoid reading the article, so you don't realize just how silly that sounds now that you can't take the comment back anymore...

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[jellomizer]

How does this prevent a script to populate itself to load into the Linux kernel source on recompile.

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly which one of all the developers around the world involved in this open-source project has compiled viruses directly into the operating system?

Poettering via his systemd.

Re:Perfect, now the viruses can...

[Anonymous Coward]

Poettering is the virus and systemd is his god. He has a Satanic pact with systemd--it's simply beyond his control. Now if only 4 small boys from a remote town in Colorado could save us...

"Pushed out?"

[msauve]

When I read "pushed out," I think "delayed." ITYM "released." Does ReactOS even do push upgrades, or do users need to pull new versions?

Re:"Pushed out?"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because this story was written by a hindu chimp.

Re:"Pushed out?"

[tepples]

Does "pushed a release to its source code repository and download server" make more sense?

Re:"Pushed out?"

[squiggleslash]

Good point, it won't be a true Windows clone until it forces users to download and install updates and reboots twice a week when it does.

Re:"Pushed out?"

[justthinkit]

You can't see the alpha in the summary? Big changes to a file system driver? Memory issues due to caching? Can finally host itself?

I'm interested in the project, but daily use is a ways away.

Getting to a point of push upgrades might never happen. And is, if you think about it, antithetical to the project itself.

Re:"Pushed out?"

[Anonymous Coward]

In that case, it will never be a true Windows clone, as the bug about adding telemetry was closed WONT-FIX

Re:"Pushed out?"

[Anonymous Coward]

It won't be a true Windows clone until it has successfully installed itself onto users' systems without their approval. ;)

Compatible not compliant

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not sure where the phrase "due to a flawed NT-compliant kernel" came from but the words compliant and conformant are used with computer software to denote adherence to an open standard which includes a formal testing program. The proper word is compatible.

Re:Compatible not compliant

[Desler]

It came from the original article.

Re: Compatible not compliant

[Anonymous Coward]

Design specifications have have bugs in them. Thus, being compliant means misbehavior. I donâ(TM)t see a problem here.

Re:Compatible not compliant

[Khyber]

Compliant, as an complies with the design documentation.

This is why you are not a programmer.

Re: Compatible not compliant

[Anne Thwacks]

Design specifications have have bugs in them.

Since windows is completely lacking any kind of design, specification or testing, we are on safe ground here!

It's time for the merge!

[Bruce Perens]

Microsoft could solve the problem of "Legacy Windows" in one fell swoop by labeling this "Windows 11" and going on with IoT or whatever they're after today. Unfortunately, Elon Musk doesn't run Microsoft, and there isn't another manager that daring in the corporate universe.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[110010001000]

Elon Musk is too busy on Twitter calling people that damage his ego "pedophiles" to do anything useful.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft could solve the problem of "Legacy Windows" in one fell swoop by labeling this "Windows 11" and going on with IoT or whatever they're after today. Unfortunately, Elon Musk doesn't run Microsoft, and there isn't another manager that daring in the corporate universe.

Yeah, except that ReactOS can't really run anything.

No, seriously go try it out. It's basically garbage.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Megol]

All text just to indirectly call Musk an idiot?

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like an happy tech idea looking for someone to use it, rather than fulfilling a need.

Let me know when it runs andoid/iphone apps.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[93 Escort Wagon]

Elon Musk is too busy on Twitter calling people that damage his ego "pedophiles" to do anything useful.

He deleted those tweets, which means everything’s okay - we can all safely pretend he’s not that fragile.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't need more crazy managers. Musk has revealed his inability to have his mistakes noticed by others without losing his mind.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

too busy on Twitter calling people that damage his ego "pedophiles"

I still don't understand why it's rude to imply that somebody is enthusiastic about walking. It's pleasant, and good exercise too.

Re: It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

It can run some sort of host environment like explorer.exe which means video drivers and file systems, and some sort of compiler, right? It also has some sort of zip library. Thatâ(TM)s like three things!

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

A few tweets written when he was exhausted from working day and night revolutionizing both low-cost access to space and the large scale production of the best selling electric vehicles available AND used what free time he didn't have when he was asked to try and help save a bunch of kids stuck in a cave and got flamed for it...

Yeah, Elon needs a break but the world would be a better place with more managers like him and fewer anonymous cowards.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[dbialac]

Never mind the fact that electric cars are snake oil. Lithium ion production from the batteries produces a ton of CO2 and the batteries become toxic waste afterwards. Want an actually environmentally friendly alternative? Check this out.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Rick Schumann]

Merge? I guess that's one word for it. What I imagine is going to actually happen, assuming that is that ReactOS ever makes it to a full non-beta v1.0 release, is Microsoft will sue the daylights out of them, beating them into submission, then make part of the settlement deal that they absorb ReactOS entirely, and prohibit anyone from ever making a Windows clone again. Either that or they'll just issue a DMCA takedown notice for copyright violation, and more or less legally prohibit them from distributing it, or maybe seek indictments against the ReactOS creators for cybercrime violations. All the above even more so if you can install other Microsoft software (like Office) onto ReactOS and have it all work properly. All in all I'd like it if ReactOS was totally ignored and allowed to flourish, but knowing how Microsoft operates (based on past behavior) I can't see them sitting still for anyone creating a totally free compatible OS.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

If Microsoft drops old the 'old shit' from Windows they'll have to rename it not "Windows 11" but something else entirely like "Frame", "Ceiling" or "Crawling Space"!

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

too busy on Twitter calling people that damage his ego "pedophiles"

I still don't understand why it's rude to imply that somebody is enthusiastic about walking. It's pleasant, and good exercise too.

In that case I encourage you to go to the nearest playground and announce that you are enthusiastic about walking, with that specific term.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[pr0fessor]

You forgot the last option Microsoft embraces it and helps them make it a stable yet neutered operating system with enough features missing that no one is really interested and then Microsoft uses it like tool for live booting discs instead of a full operating system. Followed by a media campaign on how they support open source.

Re:It's time for the merge!

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw the pictures and I'd rather bang an 18-year-old thai boy or older anyway. If you want to fuck some tiny things with bones go fuck a chicken carcass.

Re: Speaking of hosting...apk loves HOSTig

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought APK just loved twinks and soyboys, not that he was one.

Re: Speaking of hosting...apk loves HOSTig

[Anonymous Coward]

He's always calling people twinks and soyboys. It's called projection.

Why?

[LordWabbit2]

This is a prime example of someone with too much time on their hands. Why bother building something that is... already there. Especially since they are so far behind they may as well not be in the race. What's the point? If it's to fluff out your C.V. well, keep on then, but otherwise I really think that this is a waste of resources that would be better spent on other open source projects.

build itself from within itself,

Whoop de doo.
So you included the source code to a compiler within the source code to the operating system. But to build the source code I would need an operating system with a compiler. So yet again, what's the point? You could have saved at least a dozen children with the amount of time and effort being wasted to build an operating system no one needs and that no one will use (other then the creators, and then probably only as a second operating system). Who actually uses this stupid fucking thing other than the people coding it? Is it EVER allowed in a production environment, I know for sure it would not be allowed even close to a server where I work.

Re:Why?

[110010001000]

I love it when people criticize others for doing stuff that doesn't affect them at all. Especially IT janitors who don't realize that their entire job depends on Open Source software working properly. No one cares about "servers where you work".

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

It could be useful if it were to be mostly Win XP-compatible (i.e. sufficient to run most programs requiring that platform) with the security and driver updates needed to maintain that usefulness.

R O

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Already there? XP/2003 aren't there anymore, even 7 is on borrowed time and was almost bloated as 10 anyway.
The security model of ReactOS though is probably security by small user base.

Re:Why?

[CanHasDIY]

Is it EVER allowed in a production environment, I know for sure it would not be allowed even close to a server where I work.

I doubt the waitresses at Hooter's really care.

Re:Why?

[Junta]

I doubt the time of these hobbyists would have saved at least a dozen children. Just like the resources and effort to make a single Lamborghini cannot be directly used to create 10 honda accords, despite the price tag suggesting that would be the case given a simplistic interpretation of 'value'.

The critical assessment could also have applied to Linux in 1993, this silly unusable Unix-wannabe, what's the point, we have several Unix vendors alreday? Linus himself said "I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones". It's hard for me to picture this scenario for ReactOS of course, but it is a good thing that sort of assessment didn't discourage free software back then...

Also value in preservation, if not practical direct use. In this marvelous age where we have created the ability to have perfect preservation in terms of digital data, we do a lot to make it still unlikely to run old software. Efforts like FreeDOS and ReactOS improve chances of preserving experience of 'dead' platform/platform revisions.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I read this more as "able to build itself on itself". Meaning you don't need to build it on another OS like "real" Windows or Linux. Which means it must have been really unstable until now...

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it when people criticize others for doing stuff that doesn't affect them at all. Especially IT janitors who don't realize that their entire job depends on Open Source software working properly. No one cares about "servers where you work".

Good point. Hell, I don't even care about servers where I work.

But yeah, this armchair developer wants to criticize someone for doing what they obviously want to. What would make him happier, then sitting around playing Fortnite?

Re:Why?

[Khyber]

You are a prime example of someone with a 7-digit UID - too stupid and brainless.

Why? Because they can, and you obviously can NOT.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

LMAO out of all the shitpost comments that appear every time someone posts about ReactOS, "YOu CoULD HAVE sAVEd At LEASt a doZen cHiLdReN" has got to be a new one.

Well memed, friendo.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed. Clearly you are not capable of doing so.

No one cares about "servers where you work"

Yeah, but chances are the place where I work is hosting your servers, but since you don't care I will switch them off for you :-)
Jokes aside, what I was trying to ask (and clearly not achieving) is that is there ANY production environment which would allow this operating system to run inside it? I don't know of a single one. I would also like to point out I write code, I don't click next, I know exactly how much time and effort is being spent on this project. Also our systems do NOT depend on open source software AT ALL. We require SLA's etc. and most of all stable software, open source is considered too volatile unless it's backed by big business (and even then the paperwork to justify it is a major pain). But then I work for really real companies, writing software that actually changes the world, not some shit hole company in the ass end of nowhere that has to rely on open source software because you can't afford the license fees. Sometimes, you get what you pay for.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up!

More to the point I've always found IT people quite clueless. They rely on procedures and wrote knowledge to do their jobs. I work on the semiconductor design side of the world and whenever interacting with IT folk we always remark at how little they seem to know about the very technologies they are supposed to manage.

The assumptions in the grandparent are just off the wall. One that "servers" are what all operating systems are for. Or two that all software exists in a stable production state. I guess there is a serious disconnect in understanding how it got that way. Perhaps he should read "Showstoppers!" by G. Pascal Zachary on the history of Windows NT. Also, while a big FreeBSD fan there is some really good design in the NT kernel (the rest of the OS has some issues). So why not make an alternative implementation? Anything that gets us away from the monoculture we have is good.

IT people love monoculture. It's easy for them. It's bad for many reasons -- stopping innovation is one of them.

Re:Why?

[110010001000]

I can't explain it because you wouldn't understand. You aren't a producer, but a consumer. Some people are just curious and want to create things and find them useful. Some people just like the intellectual exercise. Or maybe they think it will be useful for running legacy software. By the way, I guarantee your systems do depend on open source somewhere. You just don't know where because you don't know how they really work. Just are just flipping knobs and consuming information.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

I doubt the time of these hobbyists would have saved at least a dozen children

I was being conservative, they probably could have saved a couple thousand each, writing software takes time, lots of time. Time is money and resources etc. if they had just helped out at a soup kitchen or grown vegetables their effort would have had more impact than what they are doing now. But I do see what you are saying, if you don't at least try, you won't achieve anything. Also you won't fail, but that's not the point.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

There are server rooms at Hooters!
Definitely going to change if that's the case. Although we would have to BUY hooters, since we own our own server rooms and data centers, I will mention it in the next team meeting, but I think these sort of decisions are above my pay grade.
What's annoying me about all these responses is that they are all actually insults, and not very good ones. No one is actually answering the question.

And what's annoying me more, is that we don't actually have hooters here.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

I can't explain it because you wouldn't understand. You aren't a producer, but a consumer.

Try me, I write code for a living. I have probably been doing it longer than you have been breathing. If there is a problem with communication here it's your inability to explain, not my inability to understand.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you're dedicating all your free time to saving dozens of children and contributing to the most vital open source projects. There can be no doubt about it

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

IT people love monoculture. It's easy for them. It's bad for many reasons -- stopping innovation is one of them.

Try working on building management software and interfacing with all the fucking innovation and come back and talk to me. Some standards are a good thing.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

My bad, we actually do have hooters over here. Just not very many.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's because you are not as clever as you think you are.

"I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed."

To put it simply, they wrote it because *they* wanted it. No-one needs to justify this to you, so get off your high horse and realise just because you don't want it does not mean it is a waste of time. I will guarantee that a whole load of things that you see as important others see as wasteful nonsense. It's what makes life interesting.

Re:Why?

[Junta]

Time is money and resources etc

Software development time is far from a fungible thing. If I redirected some of my time to, say, going to synthesize vaccines, well I'd produce less software but I'd probably produce no vaccines in my attempt. Economy is our best approximation for equating value of different things, but at the end of the day there are differences that don't work.

Sure, volunteer as you can, this is a worthy and honorable thing t odo. However you can't volunteer all the time. Even as you attempt to volunteer to feed the hungry, you may be turned away because they have enough volunteers. Produce vegetables, sure, that no one will want because there are already plenty of vegetables supplied. Raise chickens and do more harm than good as you end up giving people salmonella. It's frequently not so trivial to convert 'guy thinking and pressing keys on a keyboard' to 'saving children'.

Re:Why?

[Bite The Pillow]

Wine. ReactOS and Wine can share code, and until recently did so. Because the user space APIs and structures are all the same.

Wine intercepts the kernel calls and redirects to a Linux call, translating and keeping track of things. ReactOS just implements the kernel directly.

There are proprietary builds of Wine that do a good job running Windows only software on Linux, if wine isn't good enough. If you have Windows you can take a ReactOS build of those wine dlls and debug them on Windows to compare with real windows if you want to fix Wine.

Tl;Dr Windows is everywhere and people want to run Windows only software on something else. Without telemetry gathering and tablet ui and other recent garbage. It isn't prod ready, but that doesn't mean it won't be.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

Well I like your tag, but I would use regex in it instead of XML, but the principle is the same. Anyways...
What I don't seem to be getting across (and getting a lot of flame for) is that I don't see the point in recreating an operating system that already exists. Linux was a scaled down version of Unix, it's adding value. It's new, a variation, but different. This is...? What's the point of doing it other than...? What's the fucking point? I can understand if the developers are doing it to expand their skills, shit, even as a pastime, but all I am trying to say is that SURELY they can find a better way to use their time. Considering they are all highly skilled programmers they could use the time even better than planting vegetables by using their skills to better effect. But planting vegetables would make more of an impact on the world than this project.

Re:Why?

[110010001000]

No you don't. If you did, you would understand that open source libraries are used everywhere.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

A BMS is not so complex. If anything, it's a beautiful case study in how to correctly design software. If you choose the correct level of abstraction then there should be nothing special about your software at all.

Of course there is a tendency to try and abstract away the work, and I'm not advocating that because it doesn't work :)

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know of a company that's using this to distribute demo versions of their software. Instead of "download and install, and hope it works on your PC", it's "boot this complete environment and try it out".

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

And they're not very good...bloody awful in fact.

Re:Why?

[Anne Thwacks]

our systems do NOT depend on open source software AT ALL

If you are dependent on closed source for your infrastructure, the day will surely come when you are totally up the creek without a paddle.

You don't know anything about the software you are completely dependent on, except that you are not allowed to know what a pile of shite it is beneath the surface. And all your support depends on people who are required to sign contracts forbidding them to tell the truth about the product you have been sold.

If the software you are writing changes the world, I am concerned it will change for the worse faster than I can say Brexit.

Closed source applications may be a good idea. Closed source infrastructure cannot ever be a good idea - although it might be the only show in town.

Re:Why?

[CanHasDIY]

at's annoying me about all these responses is that they are all actually insults, and not very good ones. No one is actually answering the question.

That tends to happen when the question is stupid and non-productive.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

ReactOS development powers WINE development, which enables countless people to finally ditch windows and run their windows-only software natively on linux.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

And your answer is productive? The question is rather simple and straight forward, if you have somehow failed to even realize that, let alone supply ANY sort of answer or PRODUCTIVE response, well, I can't fix you. I can fix a LOT of things, retardation is not one of them (although I have a theory, it involves beating children when they are young).

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you have a world to change and children to save? Or does Super Important Server Co. pay you to sit on Slashdot and bitch about ReactOS all day?

Re:Why?

[Sesostris III]

what's the point?

• What's the point in watching TV?
• What's the point in reading a book?
• What's the point in doing the crossword or the sudoku in the paper?
• What's the point jogging or running (if you're not going to compete at the Olympics)?
• What's the point in reading interesting science articles if your not a researcher in the field?
• What's the point in sitting outside at night and watching the stars (unless of course you’re a paid astronomer)?
• What's the point in going away on holiday / vacation?
• What's the point in going exactly what it is you enjoy doing, if you'll get criticised by others who see no utilitarian value in what you do?
• And finally, what's the point in helping to develop ReactOS?

I can't help thinking all these have somewhat the same answer!

Re:Why?

[nine-times]

In this marvelous age where we have created the ability to have perfect preservation in terms of digital data, we do a lot to make it still unlikely to run old software.

This is where I see potential value in ReactOS. Let's say you have some old piece of software that you need to run, and Microsoft broke compatibility when they transitioned from Windows XP to Windows Vista. Unfortunately, the vendor isn't around anymore and doesn't offer an update, but you need that software to run.

One option is to ditch that software, and hope that you can find something similar that runs on new versions of Windows. Maybe no such software exists. Or maybe you find something and now you have it running on Windows 7, and then that vendor goes under, and now you're being pushed to Windows 10 and the new package won't run on that.

Another option would be to stick with Windows XP. And then, Microsoft discontinues support, and it's not getting security patches, but you stick with it. And then, vendors stop producing hardware that will run Windows XP, but you stick with it. Then your hardware breaks, and you go on eBay and buy an old system, install Windows XP, and you stick with it. It's bad enough that you have to run this old junky unsupported software, but you have to run it on an old junky unsupported OS that runs on old junky unsupported hardware. Plus it's not necessarily easy to make sure you have valid licensing for an old OS that requires activation. It's only a matter of time before it becomes a problem.

If there were an open source OS that could run that app, it's much easier to keep things running. It can be modified to run on new hardware or hypervisors, and you don't need to worry about licensing.

Re:Why?

[jbengt]

I believe LordWabbit2's comment on monoculture was in regards to the clusterfuck of different software from different vendors that makes BMS systems highly incompatible and hard to write to, unless they conform to one of the few open standards like BACnet or LonTalk (LonTalk is a proprietary protocol, but it is an open interface). On the other hand, that goes against their earlier argument about how bad it is to rely on open source software. It's the proprietary nature of many of the BMS systems out there that makes it so hard to create compatible interfaces and so provides vendor lock-in.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

We are pretty much a MS software stack development house. We may use other programming languages etc. but the operating systems etc. are almost exclusively MS, as are most of the languages. I will bet a beer you have NEVER EVER looked into the *nix source code, so you have no fucking clue what is under the hood either. The difference is that you can look into the code (if you wanted to and could actually understand what was going on), I cannot look into the code (even though I actually want to but also would take time to figure stuff out), but I CAN call the support desk and get someone else to look into the code. I am here to write software to get things done. I am not getting paid to fix someone's operating system malfunctions. I have used *nix enough to know what a pain in the ass it is to get it working, once it's working it is generally rock solid, but the journey there is a painful. It's a whole lot easier to say, install windows, click next.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, to save twelve children, of course.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

What's the point in watching TV?
Entertainment?
What's the point in reading a book?
Entertainment?
What's the point in doing the crossword or the sudoku in the paper?
Entertainment?
What's the point jogging or running (if you're not going to compete at the Olympics)?
Entertainment or Achievement?
What's the point in reading interesting science articles if your not a researcher in the field?
Entertainment?
What's the point in sitting outside at night and watching the stars (unless of course you’re a paid astronomer)?
Entertainment?
What's the point in going away on holiday / vacation?
Entertainment?
What's the point in going exactly what it is you enjoy doing, if you'll get criticised by others who see no utilitarian value in what you do?
Entertainment - or you are a millenial
And finally, what's the point in helping to develop ReactOS?
Nothing tangible other than entertainment?


So girls just want to have fun?
FFS serving at a soup kitchen would add more value to society, but fuckit, I suppose it's their own time, they are free to do with it as they wish. Just seems a waste of resources.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

You still have not explained anything, so I hereby call your "argument" a childish spat, and therefore not worth consideration.
Grow up a bit child, and then come back and actually have a discussion.

Re:Why?

[aticus.finch]

I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed.

I want it, and I need it. Your mind is obviously too small to see a bigger part of the world than outside your little cocoon.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

you could have served at least 12 bowls of soup to those 12 children you saved by now... if only you were not wasting resources on here. Don't you have world saving work to do?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up you fat retard.

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

So you are actively contributing to the project?
You need it for what exactly? Something that a quick firing up of a virtual machine would not suffice?
I think you may want it, but you really don't need it. I think you are perhaps the person stuck in the cocoon.
Just because someone wants to write it does not mean it should be written, this project is a waste of good resources.
Please explain in full sentences, because you keep saying "I WANNA" with no substantiation.

Imagine what these talented developers could have done with their time instead.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought you didn't click next?

Re:Why?

[pr0fessor]

There are so many open source libraries under not just open source but also proprietary applications and I find it hard to believe that your company runs none, remember Java is GNU GPL.

That being said there doesn't need to be a legitimate need for something all it needs is enough interest to stay alive. I have been watching this project for years and would love to see it become stable just because I find it interesting and I have even considered contributing to it. I would like to put it on some old hardware just to play with and if it becomes popular enough and receives regular updates and patches I might even use it.

Re:Why?

[legrimpeur]

Because they *can*

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

Can they? Can they really? It's taking a while...

Re:Why?

[LordWabbit2]

Good point, we do run Java for some third party software we use.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

4 hours ago someone explained to you why there is a need for this, you replied with "Thank you, I can see your reasoning and I appreciate the effort you took to explain it."

Now this. You're just arguing for the argument's sake.

And imagine what you could have done with all the time you waste on slashdot.

Re:Why?

[aticus.finch]

So you are actively contributing to the project?

Why would I? I don't actively contribute to everything I want or need.

You need it for what exactly? Something that a quick firing up of a virtual machine would not suffice? I think you may want it, but you really don't need it. I think you are perhaps the person stuck in the cocoon.

I write cross-platform open-source code, and having a no-license windows OS to test on beats having no OS at all. If I were writing that code for money I'd have no problem paying for a windows license, but I am giving my product away for free, hence I see no reason to spend money to give it away for free.

You're in the minority of the dev space (those that use windows exclusively). You need to break out of your little shell and see that Windows has the fewest number of installations; when you write code that goes on the most common systems you might appreciate just how small Windows slice of the world is.

It's nice to have a free way to test your code on the rare systems you make little to no money off.

In your little mind, the whole world runs Windows. In reality it's a small slice of the worlds computing devices.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I realise that, but what is the BMS actually doing?

Here's a block diagram:

GUI --- CORE --- LOGGING
                    I
                    HARDWARE LAYER
                      I I I
        BACnet Lon Talk Etc...

Yes, those low-level proprietary protocols are probably dogs, but they shouldn't get in the way of the interesting stuff up in the CORE and the GUI.

---

Filter error: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.

FUCK Slashdot, this is BS. I've used 4 vertical bars and 8 hyphens in my block diagram above. The junk character filter is much too agressive. I'll delete some hyphens and try again...no, it was the "pre" tags. So Slashdot doesn't accept them? Or at least classifies them as junk? No, fine, I'll remove the vertical bars. Wow. So 4 vertical bars is enough to trigger the junk character filter. I've now replaced them with "I" characters. What a waste of fucking time....

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how much time has been spent articulating your argument against wasting time? Surely there are more important things than /.

Re:Why?

[tkotz]

There are many reasons for it to exist, but I think a fundamental argument for it's existence is the developers wanted to make it. If a creator makes something because they want to that is mostly reason enough. Is the time they spend doing other activities also a waste of development time? If they read a good book or even a bad book are they sinning against society by not working on this theoretical ground breaking new piece of software you posit? Are all of use hanging out on slashdot wasting time that could be spent building something better? That base argument is a little puritanical.
The reason it gets mention here is it is interesting to other people, maybe because it is useful to them, maybe because they want to tear it down and that creates drama which creates clicks.
The reasoning that making something that is a copy of something is a waste of time we wouldn't have a lot of things. Linux, Dos, Windows, Yodels, Post cereal, Casio calculators, generic drugs, timex watches, flavour Aid, Dodge cars, GCC. Innovation usually starts as copying and then accentuate the features and improvements of the developer copying the original. It would make competition almost

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a prime example of someone with too much time on their hands. Why bother building something that is... already there.

Everyone has their hobbies. You might as well ask why people climb Mount Everest, or build ships in a bottle, or a million other seemingly pointless things people do in their spare time.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, their are lots of things that would add more value to society, but isn't the point to be doing something you enjoy in your spare time? Some people may indeed enjoy serving at a soup kitchen, but those people probably aren't the same ones that enjoy reimplementing an OS. And if you are doing something you don't enjoy, it is like working, and it isn't healthy to work all the time.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why bother building something that is... already there.

Because someday, Windows will go away.

And on that day, it might be nice to have something that will run Windows apps.

Re: Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

When you ask a question and nobody answers it, it's not because you're clever and asking a hard question. It's because you're an idiot troll

You're just making shit up to try to sound smart. And you really don't.

You just sound like someone who's too stupid to understand the concept of a hobby

Or too stupid to understand that windows 10 doesn't support a large amount of legacy software anymore. Yeah, this might take awhile to get finished, but you could run this in a vm on your phone and still get quick response for old software.

Re:Why?

[fgouget]

Also our systems do NOT depend on open source software AT ALL. [...] But then I work for really real companies, writing software that actually changes the world, not some shit hole company in the ass end of nowhere that has to rely on open source software because you can't afford the license fees.

You say that as if companies that actually change the world cannot possibly be using open-source software. You're just ignoring Google, FaceBook, Amazon, Wikipedia, etc. And if yours is not in that list, is it really changing the world?

Re:Why?

[fgouget]

What I don't seem to be getting across (and getting a lot of flame for) is that I don't see the point in recreating an operating system that already exists.

Maybe you like it that there is a single Windows supplier and that this gives them the power to hold the world to ransom since so much depends on it. But others don't and are doing something about it.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly this. All you have to do is read up on why RMS started the GNU project, the same reasons apply here.

"Free Windows!"

"Starting this Thanksgiving I am going to write a complete Windows-compatible software system called GNW (for Gnw's Not Windows), and give it away free to everyone who can use it. Contributions of time, money, programs and equipment are greatly needed."

Version 1

[secondhand_Buddah]

ReactOS Version 1.0 should be ready at around about the same time Microsoft open Sources Windows....

Re:Version 1

[Opportunist]

I'm pretty sure that happens about the same time the red guy downstairs opens the ice skating rink.

Re:Version 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares? They're producing something with a pretty admirable goal, and it costs you nothing. List things you've done, and the timetable so we can all sit and gripe about those too. Don't want to? Gee, why not? It's awfully easy to criticize. Not so easy to actually do things.

Re:Version 1

[thegarbz]

Still will be released faster than GNU Hurd.

Mouse...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just get the fucking mouse to work under Hyper-V already.

Until then, it's a non-starter.

Here's why.

[Weaselmancer]

I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed.

I think I can help.

The problem with your statement here is the "is not wanted and is not needed" part. This software is wanted and is needed.

Sure, you can buy a copy of Windows and run Windows software. You are correct - that need is fulfilled perfectly well.

By one vendor, and one vendor only. That is the important bit.

As a mental exercise, let's say that Microsoft does something completely odious in their next Windows 10 patch. All your personal data is collected and stored at Microsoft and sold to the highest bidder. Advertising everywhere. (Yes yes I know, people already feel this is happening. Bear with me.)

What now?

You're a small dev company writing an application. You have to write it for Windows because that's 90% of the market share, pretty much. You have years into development and it has to be for Windows because you don't have the resources to run it anywhere else. And now suddenly Microsoft is doing this terrible thing, and you don't want to be a part of it.

You could release your application on a ReactOS image. You get all the Windows functionality, and none of the "locked in to one vendor-ness" of Windows.

So long story short, choice is good. There is a metric ton of legacy code and applications that depend entirely on Windows, and having a single point of failure for all of it is untenable. This is why projects like ReactOS and WINE are valuable.

Re:Here's why.

[LordWabbit2]

Thank you, I can see your reasoning and I appreciate the effort you took to explain it.

Re:Here's why.

[lucasnate1]

So long story short, choice is good. There is a metric ton of legacy code and applications that depend entirely on Windows, and having a single point of failure for all of it is untenable. This is why projects like ReactOS and WINE are valuable.

And then Microsoft sues them?

Re:Here's why.

[Anonymous Coward]

And then Microsoft sues them?

For what? Different code base. Although that hasn't stopped Microsoft from trying. They funded the SCO copyright cases (through Baystar), and try to enforce bogus patents on stupid things like ExFAT.

All M$ would accomplish with a lawsuit is a change of venue for the ReactOS project.

Re: Speaking of hosting...apk loves HOSTig

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that mean the brainlets calling everyone racist and Nazis are the real Nazis?

Big if true!

Will it run older video game natively?

[Anonymous Coward]

It may be worth while to install the OS if ReactOS can run older windows game natively

ReactOS snowball

[Anonymous Coward]

Long assumed as ReactOS inches closer to becoming a viable replacement for Windows pace of development and resources going into the project would begin to increase exponentially.

Still a long ways to go but progress thus far is absolutely amazing.

Putin's favorite OS!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think the security holes/backdoors/tracking in Windows are bad, wait until you see the ones the FSB puts into their own version of Windows.

Re: Putin's favorite OS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Booohoo. A version of Windows free of NSAware!!!!!

How sad for the Imperium of war and sodomy.

Re: Speaking of hosting...apk loves HOSTig

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes a Nazi is just a Nazi.

I want to like ReactOS, but...

[kriston]

I want to like ReactOS, but the desktop environment needs to be replaced with something modern and Aero-like.

Maybe Stardock will do the trick.

Re:I want to like ReactOS, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

They did add some theming support but people have to make themes, or try them if XP themes do work.
For many, "classic" theme will be a draw in.

Just icon themes might be nice. Can have a copyright infringing icon theme probably.
The irony is the classic win 9x/2k theme, thrown out by 8 and 10, was vector graphics and vector graphics is just what we need for today's varying dpi requirements.

People are forced to be used whatever UI anyway. Funny that you want Aero theme. In Windows you don't get a choice, it's a high res Windows 2.x theme or nothing! And if you run Metro applications you get some kind of Android clone with square buttons ; if you don't agree then fuck you.

Re: Speaking of hosting...apk loves HOSTig

[Anonymous Coward]

Only people from the Bilderberg Team can reliably detect Nazis.

So if you Cross the rich and powerful, you will be diagnosed a Nazi.

I am & you're NOT blowhard... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

How does EATING YOUR WORDS taste https://linux.slashdot.org/com... ?

* Bit like your FOOT in your MOUTH ramming them back down your chicken-neck THROAT washed down w/ the BITTER TASTE of SELF-defeat??

APK

P.S.=> You bit off MORE than you could CHEW bigmouth - enjoy eating your words... apk

Re:I am & you're NOT blowhard... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you still angry? I already apologised for busting that nut all over your your face. I just couldn't stop it, you sucked me off so well!

Your girlfriend didn't mind it when I did it to her, so just chill out. I promise next time I'll cum inside your bowels instead.

Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, you have implemented zip but what about rar, 7z, gzip, etc? Oh, I'm going to need a seperate program anyway?

oh lord and master of all other people's time

[Anonymous Coward]

so stop posting and go serve bums at a soup kitchen. put your money where your mouth is. I can pirate windows but I love wine and the idea of reactOS. Finally windows like it should be... without MS, without phoning home. Maybe in 5 years it will be somewhere; by which time real windows (tm) will be subscription based like office 365. Maybe you enjoy your private devices being managed by hostile 3rd parties but I don't. Let their nuts go.

Projecting you're angry again I see

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & why don't YOU answer a simple question I put to you here on how EATING YOUR WORDS tasted https://news.slashdot.org/comm... ?

* RoTfLmAo!

(Your BOYFRIEND minds you spend SO MUCH TIME stalking me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts vs. sucking him off + blasting him up the ASS, lol...)

APK

P.S.=> JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie", please - grow up... apk

Re: Projecting you're angry again I see

[Anonymous Coward]

You're deranged.

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