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ReactOS 0.4.9 Is Entirely Self-Hosting, Fixes FastFAT Crashes (appuals.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Appuals: ReactOS, the "free Windows clone" operating system, has pushed out ReactOS 0.4.9 just recently, which brings a whole slew of improvements. With this latest 0.4.9 version, ReactOS has become entirely self-hosting without any issues, which means ReactOS can fully build itself from within itself, it does not require any third-party operating system to compile ReactOS. Self-hosting was built into older ReactOS versions, but it came with a myriad of issues -- the system would become too stressed under memory usage and storage I/O loads. This was due to a flawed NT-compliant kernel.
Additional improvements in ReactOS 0.4.9 include overall stability and performance enhancements. The hardware abstraction layer and the FastFAT drivers received significant attention, and FastFAT should no longer eat through the cache so fast it causes system crashes due to resource leakage. FastFAT has also been rewritten to trigger a "chkdsk" repair on dirty / corrupt volumes during boot detections. Some other quality improvements are the addition of a built-in zipfldr extension -- ReactOS can now natively unpackage zipped archives, without the need of a third-party tool like WinZip. The changelog can be viewed here.
Additional improvements in ReactOS 0.4.9 include overall stability and performance enhancements. The hardware abstraction layer and the FastFAT drivers received significant attention, and FastFAT should no longer eat through the cache so fast it causes system crashes due to resource leakage. FastFAT has also been rewritten to trigger a "chkdsk" repair on dirty / corrupt volumes during boot detections. Some other quality improvements are the addition of a built-in zipfldr extension -- ReactOS can now natively unpackage zipped archives, without the need of a third-party tool like WinZip. The changelog can be viewed here.
Is it actually useful?
Linux and BSD were hobbyist curiosities for basement dwelling neckbeards until giant corporations Google and Apple put Android and iOS into every phone.
I guarantee you do use Linux on a daily basis. You just don't realize it.
I am not sure where the phrase "due to a flawed NT-compliant kernel" came from but the words compliant and conformant are used with computer software to denote adherence to an open standard which includes a formal testing program. The proper word is compatible.
Microsoft could solve the problem of "Legacy Windows" in one fell swoop by labeling this "Windows 11" and going on with IoT or whatever they're after today. Unfortunately, Elon Musk doesn't run Microsoft, and there isn't another manager that daring in the corporate universe.
Bruce Perens.
I started using linux as my exclusive desktop since 2003. It was good enough for that at that time and only has gotten better. What are you talking about?
My corporate PTB gave me the choice of a Windows install or a Linux one. I took the plunge and am not tempted to go back.
The only area which causes me some grief is interfacing with the Skype For Business infrastructure at work. Other then that, clear sailing.
IMO - unless you're a hardcore Windows gamer (the latest greatest stuff, not things that WINE can take care of) Linux is a solid desktop choice for even the most mildly technical adept user.
Min
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
Does "pushed a release to its source code repository and download server" make more sense?
I love it when people criticize others for doing stuff that doesn't affect them at all. Especially IT janitors who don't realize that their entire job depends on Open Source software working properly. No one cares about "servers where you work".
Speaking of that, why is setting an IP address in linux so shitty anymore? Ifconfig was taken away for "reasons" so I figured why not try the provided GUI? Well now I have options for a gateway and a default route. Are those two things not the same? Anyhow no DHCP here so I set a static address. Ok I can ping the gateway but DNS is still looking at 127.0.0.1 for some reason. Try running traceroute but it requires root now, what the fuck? Play with the settings a few times and finally reboot, but not before systemd freezes everything making me hit the power button. Yay looks like things are finally working. Why did I waste my fucking time on this? Back to FreeBSD where documentation is clear and things work as advertised.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Good point, it won't be a true Windows clone until it forces users to download and install updates and reboots twice a week when it does.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
You can't see the alpha in the summary? Big changes to a file system driver? Memory issues due to caching? Can finally host itself?
I'm interested in the project, but daily use is a ways away.
Getting to a point of push upgrades might never happen. And is, if you think about it, antithetical to the project itself.
I come here for the love
Eventually, this can be used for software preservation. Real Win9x doesn't run well on modern hardware - or at all if we move to EFI-only. We're so far from that, you might as well just use Wine for now - but there's a lot of code sharing between the two projects.
Unfortunately true. However the alternative is closed source software. With open source software you can create your own "internet of things" and ignore the tech companies.
Is it EVER allowed in a production environment, I know for sure it would not be allowed even close to a server where I work.
I doubt the waitresses at Hooter's really care.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I doubt the time of these hobbyists would have saved at least a dozen children. Just like the resources and effort to make a single Lamborghini cannot be directly used to create 10 honda accords, despite the price tag suggesting that would be the case given a simplistic interpretation of 'value'.
The critical assessment could also have applied to Linux in 1993, this silly unusable Unix-wannabe, what's the point, we have several Unix vendors alreday? Linus himself said "I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones". It's hard for me to picture this scenario for ReactOS of course, but it is a good thing that sort of assessment didn't discourage free software back then...
Also value in preservation, if not practical direct use. In this marvelous age where we have created the ability to have perfect preservation in terms of digital data, we do a lot to make it still unlikely to run old software. Efforts like FreeDOS and ReactOS improve chances of preserving experience of 'dead' platform/platform revisions.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
You are a prime example of someone with a 7-digit UID - too stupid and brainless.
Why? Because they can, and you obviously can NOT.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
ReactOS Version 1.0 should be ready at around about the same time Microsoft open Sources Windows....
Participatory Governance : The only feasible option for a real democracy, where everyone really does have a say.
Similar boat. Pidgin-sipe does let me interact with Skype 4 Business, but the microphone volume management and had to rebuild to get the right codecs, so it's far from baked to get to same quality, but it is serviceable.
Also pidgin UI isn't quite as well geared as Skype 4 Business gui for doing 'buddy-less' communication, and selecting audio device is clunkier...
But everything else is effortless and smooth and no 'fudging about with source code' or stuff like that (unless I want to) outside of trying to get an acceptable S4B experience using native Linux stuff.
I don't even resort to Wine, just linux applications for everything.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Granted, I only use it for the chat functionality, but Pidgin has the "pidgin-sipe" plugin which shows up as "Office Communicator" in the account setup. Works fine. (The hint for me was that I saw that our installation supports SIP, so even a normal soft phone might work... )
Again, I don't call with it, so it might not be enough for you
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I can't explain it because you wouldn't understand. You aren't a producer, but a consumer. Some people are just curious and want to create things and find them useful. Some people just like the intellectual exercise. Or maybe they think it will be useful for running legacy software. By the way, I guarantee your systems do depend on open source somewhere. You just don't know where because you don't know how they really work. Just are just flipping knobs and consuming information.
Well routing wasn't working with my gateway filled in so I added a default route that still didn't work. Hell I've seen distros that don't even include traceroute anymore.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
What silly logic. When someone says "using" with regards to an OS they are talking about direct usage. Not that some rack of servers that you only interact with through a high-level application happens runs to the OS. When I go tomGoogle.com I'm using their web application being served up not the underlying OS.
I was being conservative, they probably could have saved a couple thousand each, writing software takes time, lots of time. Time is money and resources etc. if they had just helped out at a soup kitchen or grown vegetables their effort would have had more impact than what they are doing now. But I do see what you are saying, if you don't at least try, you won't achieve anything. Also you won't fail, but that's not the point.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Odd you should say that. I have the opposite experience.
On the odd occasions I have had to use Windows since switching to Linux in 1996 I have had to resort to installing cygwin or using VMs to be able to get any work done.
Luckily MS now includes the Linux Subsystem for Windows in Win 10 so this is less of a pain. And besides most software I use is open source stuff that runs fine on Mac, Windows, and Linux now a days. You know, GIMP, KiCad, Inkscape, Firefox, Chrome, Atom, VS code, etc, etc.
As for Wine, as long as it runs the LTSpice circuit simulator, which it does, I'm happy.
There are server rooms at Hooters!
Definitely going to change if that's the case. Although we would have to BUY hooters, since we own our own server rooms and data centers, I will mention it in the next team meeting, but I think these sort of decisions are above my pay grade.
What's annoying me about all these responses is that they are all actually insults, and not very good ones. No one is actually answering the question.
And what's annoying me more, is that we don't actually have hooters here.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
...took the plunge and am not tempted to go back.
Welcome to Microsoft Windows!
Actually, in my experience newer games, especially if not AAA-titles from big studios, play lovely with Linux and more often than not even have a (more or less) official Linux port due to the spread of game development tools like Unity that make cross-development easy.
My biggest issue is still the lack of drivers for gaming hardware, it's still far from a given that you find working drivers for multi-button mice and programmable keyboards, let alone flight sticks/pedals or head tracking devices.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
You might want to avoid reading the article, so you don't realize just how silly that sounds now that you can't take the comment back anymore...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
My bad, we actually do have hooters over here. Just not very many.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed.
I think I can help.
The problem with your statement here is the "is not wanted and is not needed" part. This software is wanted and is needed.
Sure, you can buy a copy of Windows and run Windows software. You are correct - that need is fulfilled perfectly well.
By one vendor, and one vendor only. That is the important bit.
As a mental exercise, let's say that Microsoft does something completely odious in their next Windows 10 patch. All your personal data is collected and stored at Microsoft and sold to the highest bidder. Advertising everywhere. (Yes yes I know, people already feel this is happening. Bear with me.)
What now?
You're a small dev company writing an application. You have to write it for Windows because that's 90% of the market share, pretty much. You have years into development and it has to be for Windows because you don't have the resources to run it anywhere else. And now suddenly Microsoft is doing this terrible thing, and you don't want to be a part of it.
You could release your application on a ReactOS image. You get all the Windows functionality, and none of the "locked in to one vendor-ness" of Windows.
So long story short, choice is good. There is a metric ton of legacy code and applications that depend entirely on Windows, and having a single point of failure for all of it is untenable. This is why projects like ReactOS and WINE are valuable.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Time is money and resources etc
Software development time is far from a fungible thing. If I redirected some of my time to, say, going to synthesize vaccines, well I'd produce less software but I'd probably produce no vaccines in my attempt. Economy is our best approximation for equating value of different things, but at the end of the day there are differences that don't work.
Sure, volunteer as you can, this is a worthy and honorable thing t odo. However you can't volunteer all the time. Even as you attempt to volunteer to feed the hungry, you may be turned away because they have enough volunteers. Produce vegetables, sure, that no one will want because there are already plenty of vegetables supplied. Raise chickens and do more harm than good as you end up giving people salmonella. It's frequently not so trivial to convert 'guy thinking and pressing keys on a keyboard' to 'saving children'.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
So I assume you don't own a modern TV? Pretty much all of those have been running Linux for a decade plus. No wired or wireless router? Almost all of those run Linux. Ditto for most non-iPhone smartphones. Actually, pretty much any electronics that have more "brains" than your average microwave probably runs Linux - including many higher-end microwaves.
When you can get a fully functional computer-on-a-chip with as much operating system as you want for ~$5, custom-built electronics start looking a lot less attractive.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Wine. ReactOS and Wine can share code, and until recently did so. Because the user space APIs and structures are all the same.
Wine intercepts the kernel calls and redirects to a Linux call, translating and keeping track of things. ReactOS just implements the kernel directly.
There are proprietary builds of Wine that do a good job running Windows only software on Linux, if wine isn't good enough. If you have Windows you can take a ReactOS build of those wine dlls and debug them on Windows to compare with real windows if you want to fix Wine.
Tl;Dr Windows is everywhere and people want to run Windows only software on something else. Without telemetry gathering and tablet ui and other recent garbage. It isn't prod ready, but that doesn't mean it won't be.
Well I like your tag, but I would use regex in it instead of XML, but the principle is the same. Anyways...
What I don't seem to be getting across (and getting a lot of flame for) is that I don't see the point in recreating an operating system that already exists. Linux was a scaled down version of Unix, it's adding value. It's new, a variation, but different. This is...? What's the point of doing it other than...? What's the fucking point? I can understand if the developers are doing it to expand their skills, shit, even as a pastime, but all I am trying to say is that SURELY they can find a better way to use their time. Considering they are all highly skilled programmers they could use the time even better than planting vegetables by using their skills to better effect. But planting vegetables would make more of an impact on the world than this project.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
No you don't. If you did, you would understand that open source libraries are used everywhere.
Let's be real here. Linux is a cost decision.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
You have obviously had NO contact with embedded Windows - only the terminally corrupt or terminally stupid would touch that with a disinfected barge pole.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Thanks for the tips kind sir. I must be really old because I never recalled traceroute needing root access. I just checked and traceroute runs fine as a normal user in Slackware 14.2 and pretty much every *BSD.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
You are looking in the wrong place.
It was too much for Poettering to handle.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
If you are dependent on closed source for your infrastructure, the day will surely come when you are totally up the creek without a paddle.
You don't know anything about the software you are completely dependent on, except that you are not allowed to know what a pile of shite it is beneath the surface. And all your support depends on people who are required to sign contracts forbidding them to tell the truth about the product you have been sold.
If the software you are writing changes the world, I am concerned it will change for the worse faster than I can say Brexit.
Closed source applications may be a good idea. Closed source infrastructure cannot ever be a good idea - although it might be the only show in town.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Heh, 100% correct, 99.99999+% sure Slashdot is hosted on a linux-powered web server.
at's annoying me about all these responses is that they are all actually insults, and not very good ones. No one is actually answering the question.
That tends to happen when the question is stupid and non-productive.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Probably not at this point, and they'd have to write it themselves from scratch, and almost guaranteed Microsoft would throw a fit if you could install it on ReactOS as-is. Microsoft will either sue the shit out of them, or if they can't for some reason they'll make sure none of their software will install on ReactOS by detecting it and telling you it's an 'invalid Windows version' or somesuch.
And your answer is productive? The question is rather simple and straight forward, if you have somehow failed to even realize that, let alone supply ANY sort of answer or PRODUCTIVE response, well, I can't fix you. I can fix a LOT of things, retardation is not one of them (although I have a theory, it involves beating children when they are young).
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Good point. Perhaps some enterprising corporation on the scale of Google or Apple will put together a ReactOS-like (and, dare I dream, ReactOS-compatible) operating system for the masses!
The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
what's the point?
I can't help thinking all these have somewhat the same answer!
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
In this marvelous age where we have created the ability to have perfect preservation in terms of digital data, we do a lot to make it still unlikely to run old software.
This is where I see potential value in ReactOS. Let's say you have some old piece of software that you need to run, and Microsoft broke compatibility when they transitioned from Windows XP to Windows Vista. Unfortunately, the vendor isn't around anymore and doesn't offer an update, but you need that software to run.
One option is to ditch that software, and hope that you can find something similar that runs on new versions of Windows. Maybe no such software exists. Or maybe you find something and now you have it running on Windows 7, and then that vendor goes under, and now you're being pushed to Windows 10 and the new package won't run on that.
Another option would be to stick with Windows XP. And then, Microsoft discontinues support, and it's not getting security patches, but you stick with it. And then, vendors stop producing hardware that will run Windows XP, but you stick with it. Then your hardware breaks, and you go on eBay and buy an old system, install Windows XP, and you stick with it. It's bad enough that you have to run this old junky unsupported software, but you have to run it on an old junky unsupported OS that runs on old junky unsupported hardware. Plus it's not necessarily easy to make sure you have valid licensing for an old OS that requires activation. It's only a matter of time before it becomes a problem.
If there were an open source OS that could run that app, it's much easier to keep things running. It can be modified to run on new hardware or hypervisors, and you don't need to worry about licensing.
It's Linux and systemd. There are dozen different ways to do the simplest damn thing.
Should I use systemd-networkd? Or NetworkManager? Or netctl? Or ConnMan? Or perhaps do it brute force and run dhcpcd or 'ip addr' (for static setup) in my rc.local?
traceroute isn't even installed by default on many popular distros. I guess it's no longer considered a vital debugging tool.
Just a note. If you don't have DHCP or presumably IPv6 autoconfiguration then you're in a bit of a unusual situation compared to most desktop Linux users. On a server with static IP I'd usually run Debian and I know which text file to edit to change my static IP, netmask, gateway, DNS, etc. (but such config files can be different on every distro)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I believe LordWabbit2's comment on monoculture was in regards to the clusterfuck of different software from different vendors that makes BMS systems highly incompatible and hard to write to, unless they conform to one of the few open standards like BACnet or LonTalk (LonTalk is a proprietary protocol, but it is an open interface). On the other hand, that goes against their earlier argument about how bad it is to rely on open source software. It's the proprietary nature of many of the BMS systems out there that makes it so hard to create compatible interfaces and so provides vendor lock-in.
We are pretty much a MS software stack development house. We may use other programming languages etc. but the operating systems etc. are almost exclusively MS, as are most of the languages. I will bet a beer you have NEVER EVER looked into the *nix source code, so you have no fucking clue what is under the hood either. The difference is that you can look into the code (if you wanted to and could actually understand what was going on), I cannot look into the code (even though I actually want to but also would take time to figure stuff out), but I CAN call the support desk and get someone else to look into the code. I am here to write software to get things done. I am not getting paid to fix someone's operating system malfunctions. I have used *nix enough to know what a pain in the ass it is to get it working, once it's working it is generally rock solid, but the journey there is a painful. It's a whole lot easier to say, install windows, click next.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
I want to like ReactOS, but the desktop environment needs to be replaced with something modern and Aero-like.
Maybe Stardock will do the trick.
Kriston
What's the point in watching TV?
Entertainment?
What's the point in reading a book?
Entertainment?
What's the point in doing the crossword or the sudoku in the paper?
Entertainment?
What's the point jogging or running (if you're not going to compete at the Olympics)?
Entertainment or Achievement?
What's the point in reading interesting science articles if your not a researcher in the field?
Entertainment?
What's the point in sitting outside at night and watching the stars (unless of course you’re a paid astronomer)?
Entertainment?
What's the point in going away on holiday / vacation?
Entertainment?
What's the point in going exactly what it is you enjoy doing, if you'll get criticised by others who see no utilitarian value in what you do?
Entertainment - or you are a millenial
And finally, what's the point in helping to develop ReactOS?
Nothing tangible other than entertainment?
So girls just want to have fun?
FFS serving at a soup kitchen would add more value to society, but fuckit, I suppose it's their own time, they are free to do with it as they wish. Just seems a waste of resources.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
We tried that, but there's too much bullshit with trying to use it as a regular desktop. Everyone ended up running Windows VMs just to get work done. So we went back to native installs for the desktops. All the servers are Linux or BSD though, only a fucking idiot uses windows servers.
Or somebody who needs to run MS Exchange, Remote Desktop Services and Active Directory, to name but a few systems that absolutely require Windows Servers. Any company of more than 100 users will likely have need of these services. I much prefer Linux as an operating system, but to call Windows Server admins 'fucking idiots' is just trolling.
I don't think Microsoft would have much to stand on. If ReactOS happened to run the DX12 drivers just by the fact it has been reversed engineered to be compatible.
Being at ReactOS is still a Hobby OS. I doubt there will be too much Microsoft rage, unless it starts digging into its market share.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
How does this prevent a script to populate itself to load into the Linux kernel source on recompile.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You still have not explained anything, so I hereby call your "argument" a childish spat, and therefore not worth consideration.
Grow up a bit child, and then come back and actually have a discussion.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
I just don't see the point, I was hoping someone would explain why all the time and effort has been spent to build something that is not wanted, and not needed.
I want it, and I need it. Your mind is obviously too small to see a bigger part of the world than outside your little cocoon.
I don't think Microsoft would have much to stand on.
If you remember the Oracle v Google suit. APIs are copyrightable. So yeah, being a compatible API, even via reverse engineering and clean room, can be brought into court as copyright infringement.
So you are actively contributing to the project?
You need it for what exactly? Something that a quick firing up of a virtual machine would not suffice?
I think you may want it, but you really don't need it. I think you are perhaps the person stuck in the cocoon.
Just because someone wants to write it does not mean it should be written, this project is a waste of good resources.
Please explain in full sentences, because you keep saying "I WANNA" with no substantiation.
Imagine what these talented developers could have done with their time instead.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Any company of more than 100 users will likely have need of these services
Less true now then 5 years ago. As much as I may have emotional issues with it, MS O365 is becoming widespread and removes a number of use cases for needing on-prem windows servers for the reasons listed above.
Definitely viable for a company ~100 users. Arguable for larger firms.
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
There are so many open source libraries under not just open source but also proprietary applications and I find it hard to believe that your company runs none, remember Java is GNU GPL.
That being said there doesn't need to be a legitimate need for something all it needs is enough interest to stay alive. I have been watching this project for years and would love to see it become stable just because I find it interesting and I have even considered contributing to it. I would like to put it on some old hardware just to play with and if it becomes popular enough and receives regular updates and patches I might even use it.
Because they *can*
And your point being this makes Linux... ?
protip: ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.10/24 does the same thing with less typing
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
Can they? Can they really? It's taking a while...
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Good point, we do run Java for some third party software we use.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
There are plenty of embedded operating systems other than Linux and Windows. VxWorks and QNX and the most well known.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
If you remember the Oracle v Google suit. APIs are copyrightable.
In the US. US law doesn't apply to Russia, and Russians are supportive of ReactOS.
No idea what EU courts would say. In none of these places what the law actual say actually matters: in the US, despite the law explicitly allowing compatibility purposes, there's that insane "precedent" system where whims of a judge overwrite what's written; in Russia the law doesn't apply to any projects backed by the president; even in the EU courts are unpredictable.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Remote Desktop Services I'll give you, but Samba 4 has Active Directory Domain Controller Support, and you can use something like EGroupware to replace Exchange.
Really the only places linux has issues is remote administration and configuration of an end user workstation, inability to assign domain users to local groups, and improper management of core components. Like NetworkManager being a complete mess for configuring anything more complicated than WPA-PSK, or in some weird cases Wifi in general, DNS resolvers constantly being replaced and being non-functional out of the box, remote graphical desktops not being functional at all, and development policies / culture declaring that any end user should be able to override the will of the device's owner, aka the system administrator's. In short, I have more issues dealing with linux as a end user workstation than a server. It's manageable if you're using it as a personal workstation, but completely a non-starter if you need to manage 100s or 1000s of workstations running it.
While I agree there are viable alternatives to Active Directory and Exchange, I wouldn't want to try pitching those alternatives to a director of a company with 5000 users, especially when they already have those systems in place.
Any company of more than 100 users will likely have need of these services
Less true now then 5 years ago. As much as I may have emotional issues with it, MS O365 is becoming widespread and removes a number of use cases for needing on-prem windows servers for the reasons listed above.
Definitely viable for a company ~100 users. Arguable for larger firms.
I agree that O365 is often pushing out on-premise Exchange deployments nowadays, but when you use O365 still you're still using a Windows Server, you just don't host or have much control over it anymore.
So you are actively contributing to the project?
Why would I? I don't actively contribute to everything I want or need.
You need it for what exactly? Something that a quick firing up of a virtual machine would not suffice? I think you may want it, but you really don't need it. I think you are perhaps the person stuck in the cocoon.
I write cross-platform open-source code, and having a no-license windows OS to test on beats having no OS at all. If I were writing that code for money I'd have no problem paying for a windows license, but I am giving my product away for free, hence I see no reason to spend money to give it away for free.
You're in the minority of the dev space (those that use windows exclusively). You need to break out of your little shell and see that Windows has the fewest number of installations; when you write code that goes on the most common systems you might appreciate just how small Windows slice of the world is.
It's nice to have a free way to test your code on the rare systems you make little to no money off.
In your little mind, the whole world runs Windows. In reality it's a small slice of the worlds computing devices.
IMO - unless you're a hardcore Windows gamer
Not at all. Your corporate PTB gave you the choice of Linux, that is incredibly rare. Your biggest problem is Skype for business? That's cute. I can only conclude your corporation isn't anywhere nearly as heavily windows shopped as most.
On the other hand my corporate laptop is managed centrally through Office365, I literally change my domain password through an MS account, I edit documents in realtime with multiple people via Sharepoint, a feature that only Office has, Skype for business... that's very 2015, we're migrating the entire infrastructure over to MS Teams, and that's before we say anything about Outlook as a desktop app having no equal, not on Linux and definitely not the abomination of Outlook 365.
Linux in the corporate world for nearly all users is a pipe dream due to the MS stranglehold.
Linux would be a fine choice on the desktop for common users, but many power users especially users of Adobe's Creative Suite, or other specific applications will be left out (the reason I don't run it on my desktop, and poor pen support is why I don't run it on my laptop).
There are many reasons for it to exist, but I think a fundamental argument for it's existence is the developers wanted to make it. If a creator makes something because they want to that is mostly reason enough. Is the time they spend doing other activities also a waste of development time? If they read a good book or even a bad book are they sinning against society by not working on this theoretical ground breaking new piece of software you posit? Are all of use hanging out on slashdot wasting time that could be spent building something better? That base argument is a little puritanical.
The reason it gets mention here is it is interesting to other people, maybe because it is useful to them, maybe because they want to tear it down and that creates drama which creates clicks.
The reasoning that making something that is a copy of something is a waste of time we wouldn't have a lot of things. Linux, Dos, Windows, Yodels, Post cereal, Casio calculators, generic drugs, timex watches, flavour Aid, Dodge cars, GCC. Innovation usually starts as copying and then accentuate the features and improvements of the developer copying the original. It would make competition almost
Not trying to be "That Guy" although I will point out your language was a tad attacky, particularly the use of the "that's cute" diminutive. Anyways, in case if's useful to other people who are attempting to change corporate cultures:
CentrifyDC will allow Linux desktops to communicate with a MS-centric administrative plane, in an almost seamless manner.
I find that unless I trip over a particularly bad document, LibreOffice handles 99% of my Excel/Word issues. For things like Visio, crossover office is easy mode, Wine works too.
Our corporation has thousands of Windows seats, AD, O365, Azure AD interconnections, etc. We also have thousands of Linux servers across private and public clouds. Oh and we're rolling out MS Teams - not my project, but we'll find a way to bang it into shape for linux, or start putting pressure on our MS sales folks, because they'll want linux users in those conversations I'm sure! :)
If I need a Windows machine (usually because some benighted Azure API has broken under python and I wanna try Powershell) I fire one up on the private cloud. No biggie. But It's been 3 months or so since that's been an issue.
If Centrify doesn't work (it doesn't for some server loads for example) check out sssd - it allows you to do things like push out ssh keys through active directory, which is handy as hell, as it allows you to tie in all those ssh accounts into your centralized identity system and avoids whack-a-mole exercises whenever someone with server access leaves the company.
At the end it comes down to corporate culture. There's nothing hard stopping a company from embracing linux as a desktop environment for their users. This is my second company which chose to make Linux a first class citizen on the desktop. If your management refuses, it's not a technical issue, it's a culture issue.
Oh and lest you think otherwise - both the companies I refer to are household names, with market valuations measured in billions. And both are valued Microsoft customers too. MS sales reps are perfectly happy to take me out for dinner at conferences.
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
Didn't mean to come across as attacky to you, but rather the notion that it is as easy as your post made out.
I fully agree that in the core function open tools work well. I myself use and recommend LibreOffice and I have in the past 5 years not had a single compatibility issue with MS Office documents. But that isn't why my corporation keeps MS Office around.
A lot of places run and are sold on "ecosystems". MS Office on its own I see as no better than Libre Office. However MS Office combined with Sharepoint, combined with Lync/Teams, well that's a feature set without compare or compatibility in the Linux world. Not necessarily a good feature set, but then I'm not the one making purchasing decisions, "I just work here man". :-)
Companies could embrace Linux, but it will be an uphill battle against the MS marketing monster, especially when they come across with discounts. MS sells on complete vertical integration and control over the entire office experience. In order to use Linux you need to reduce MS from that, to pieces of software to achieve a task.
Again, marketing battle, and a hard one at that. Linux doesn't have cool buzzwords.
Also our systems do NOT depend on open source software AT ALL. [...] But then I work for really real companies, writing software that actually changes the world, not some shit hole company in the ass end of nowhere that has to rely on open source software because you can't afford the license fees.
You say that as if companies that actually change the world cannot possibly be using open-source software. You're just ignoring Google, FaceBook, Amazon, Wikipedia, etc. And if yours is not in that list, is it really changing the world?
What I don't seem to be getting across (and getting a lot of flame for) is that I don't see the point in recreating an operating system that already exists.
Maybe you like it that there is a single Windows supplier and that this gives them the power to hold the world to ransom since so much depends on it. But others don't and are doing something about it.