Slashdot Mirror


Teen Allegedly Broke Into a Couple's Home To Ask For Their WiFi Password, Police Say (washingtonpost.com)

A 17-year-old has been accused of breaking into a couple's home in Northern California and asking for their WiFi password, hours after he had asked nearby neighbors for theirs, authorities said. From a report: Police in Palo Alto said the teen, whose name has not been released, went to a home in Silicon Valley late Saturday and asked to use the residents' WiFi network "because he was out of data," before stealing their bicycle. Then just after midnight Sunday, police said, he broke into a nearby home, woke up a sleeping couple and asked them for their password. The male resident "pushed him down the hallway and out the front door of the house before calling police," police said in a statement. Palo Alto Police Sgt. Dan Pojanamat told The Washington Post on Friday that it's unclear whether the juvenile suspect was really seeking WiFi access or whether it was simply an excuse, saying that "the real issue is the fact that he entered a house that was occupied."

316 comments

  1. Sounds like a good way... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1, Insightful
    ....to get shot.

    Oh, right...this is CA, where you can't really own a gun much anymore.

    Well, most anywhere else in the US, breaking in and waking the folks up is just asking for a bad case of lead poisoning.

    How fucking stupid are people getting these days?

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm all for shooting crazy people in my house, but I'm not sure I'd just shoot some unarmed kid. The homeowner did the right thing here, and it would be the right thing to do in Texas too.

    2. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      IN TX you can shoot.

      Maybe even have an SSID with Have_gun_will_USE

    3. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ....to get shot.
      Oh, right...this is CA, where you can't really own a gun much anymore.

      Well, most anywhere else in the US, breaking in and waking the folks up is just asking for a bad case of lead poisoning.

      So you're saying that it would have been a better outcome if this teenager had been killed for this non-violent offense?

      Oh, and by the way, someone should tell Californians that they "can't really own a gun anymore", because we are the state with the second-most gun owners in the entire country.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Sounds like a good way... by werepants · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ....to get shot.

      Oh, right...this is CA, where you can't really own a gun much anymore.

      You say that as though it would be better if this kid (who is admittedly an idiot) had died. Not every crime is worthy of the death penalty. This kid deserves consequences for his actions, but it would've been an injustice if he got his head blown off for this.

    5. Re:Sounds like a good way... by krray · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > So you're saying that it would have been a better outcome if this teenager had been killed for this non-violent offense?

      Entering my bedroom (or hell, my house) without consent is a violent offense. At least it would end violently...

      So yes, he should have been killed. DAMN LUCKY to be alive IMHO.

    6. Re:Sounds like a good way... by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you're saying that it would have been a better outcome if this teenager had been killed for this non-violent offense?

      What is it with Slashdot and these science deniers who do not believe in evolution?

      Yes, stupid enough actions should get you killed. That's how evolution, and the world, works.

      P.S. How do you know it was a non-violent offense? Usually people inside of other people's homes late are night are not non-violent. You just don't know when the violence will start; this person happened to be shot before he could turn violent. Standing over someones bed as they sleep is already an inherently threatening action to start with.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    7. Re:Sounds like a good way... by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're obviously not familiar with castle doctrine. In a castle doctrine state (which surprisingly, California is), the mere presence of an intruder in your residence is considered a threat to your life, and you can immediately respond with deadly force. It doesn't matter if they're unarmed or not.

      This comes with a couple limitations:

      1. You generally cannot "bait" someone into the property and then shoot them. IE, you can't leave your front door open with a stack if cash sitting in the living room while you wait in the corner with a gun.

      2. Though they are immediately considered a threat, if they obviously become a threat no longer, then you cannot then use deadly force. IE, you can't tie someone up and then shoot them, or as in one case that I'm aware of, a home owner shot a teen intruder in his home, she was still alive and he walked up and shot her point blank in the head to "finish her off". The initial shot would have likely been fine - the "finishing" shot got him convicted.

      Other than that though, if you're in a castle doctrine state, if you - as a genuine surprise - find any intruder in your home or dwelling you're clear to shoot immediately.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    8. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeh, how many other houses has this kid broken into "looking for wifi passwords" and ended up leaving with an assortment of valuables when no one was home? Death is perhaps too harsh, but you enter my abode and I am not waiting to see if you're armed or not. I value mine and my families lives more than any random burglar.

    9. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "kid"

      At 16 you can drive, get married have, legal sex, etc. At 16 you are no longer "a kid". You know what is wrong and illegal.

      This guy was 17. He is very lucky he wasn't killed.

    10. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Calydor · · Score: 1

      It sounds like he deliberately woke them up, which could mean actually shaking one of them awake. At that point you already ARE in close proximity, in a room that usually only has the one entry and exit, and the only course of action left is to get HIM away from YOU rather than the other way around,

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    11. Re:Sounds like a good way... by AVryhof · · Score: 1

      If he has a weapon and you're already shoving him.... keep at it, and make sure you shove him hard enough to impair his use of the weapon.

    12. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Calydor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget the psychological trauma on the guy that shot him; killing another person, especially when you find out later that he was unarmed and no actual threat, is NOT something you just shrug off because the law says it was okay to do so.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    13. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yes, stupid enough actions should get you killed. That's how evolution, and the world, works.

      In that case, Trump voters are in for a very bad day.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Sounds like a good way... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      You better have a damn good lawyer if you shoot and unarmed teen in the dark and just tell them to take your word for it that you thought you saw a knife or gun or something. You can only shoot someone in almost any state if they're threatening you, not just because they broke into your property. I

      Depends on your state, but most everyone I know of and have lived in, if someone has broken into your house, especially in the middle of the night, you can readily assume they mean to do you and your family bodily harm.

      I know of stories here, where the suspect was shot by home owner, and made it outside the house...and the cops would help drag the body back inside before pictures and all were taken, just to make it easier on the homeowner.

      If you're in my house in the middle of the night, I'll be changing magazines before I even bother seeing who the stupid fuck was......NO ONE has a reason to break into my house, and therefore I can rightly assume the worst, because, getting up and asking the criminal what their intentions are, is a quick way to get yourself shot and killed by the criminal....or maybe get you a session of being forced to watch the home invaders take turns raping your wife and kids in front of you.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:Sounds like a good way... by ole_timer · · Score: 1

      what he should have said was "...i'm from the California department of security and upon random testing your password is weak..." - that would have been believed...

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
    16. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone should tell Californians that they "can't really own a gun anymore", because we are the state with the second-most gun owners in the entire country.

      It is also the state with the toughest gun laws in the country, so while there may be a lot of gun owners, their rights related to their guns is the worst in the country.

    17. Re:Sounds like a good way... by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, and by the way, someone should tell Californians that they "can't really own a gun anymore", because we are the state with the second-most gun owners in the entire country.

      Well, in all fairness you're one out of fifty states but contain over 12% of the country's population. With that chunk of the population size even with a lower RATE of firearms ownership you still can end up with a pretty high total number.

      As to the situation - in hindsight, it's better that the teen is not dead. As dumb as his trespass was he didn't deserve to die for it. That being said, I certainly wouldn't have faulted the home owners if he HAD been shot. If you enter a residence the people there have no idea why you're there (and I'm pretty sure "asking for a WIFI password" is pretty far down on their list of guesses). They can respond as needed to protect themselves.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    18. Re:Sounds like a good way... by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Funny

      Somehow, this reminds me of the joke about the hunter calling 911.

      Operator: 911. What's your emergency?
      Hunter: I think I just killed my hunting partner.
      Operator: Okay, first I need you to check to make sure he's dead.

      [Sound of a gunshot]

      Hunter: Okay. Now what?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    19. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still live in a free state and I can tell you I would have shot him.

    20. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Push him out the door? I thought that's what 4-cell Maglites were for? Damn thing makes a billy club look subtle.

    21. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why you put a knife in their hand. Also if you have any drugs then now is the time to give them up. The cops find a guy with a weapon and drugs on him? It goes to the bottom of the pile.

    22. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet you support trump wholesale.

      Fucking hypocrite.

    23. Re:Sounds like a good way... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      You say that as though it would be better if this kid (who is admittedly an idiot) had died. Not every crime is worthy of the death penalty. This kid deserves consequences for his actions, but it would've been an injustice if he got his head blown off for this.

      When there is a breaking/home invasion, especially in the middle of the night, I'm going to assume the worst and shoot.....I'm not going to rationally turn on the lights and try to have a discussion with a criminal who has just broken into my home to ascertain what their intentions are.

      With home invasions, I'm assuming they are violent and will react as such. This is perfectly legal in most any state, especially those with castle doctrine.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    24. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't open carry in CA. Brazen disregard for the constitution. It's even a FELONY to carry a telescoping stick. So - it makes sense to bust into houses now. Might as well; it's a target-rich environment now.

    25. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      If you heard noises and went to investigate gun in hand Iâ(TM)d agree. Wake up in the middle of the night to a stranger in your own bedroom? Unless you shot him square in the back fleeing I donâ(TM)t think any jury would convict for shooting first and asking questions later.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    26. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would have shot him.

    27. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 2

      Depends on the jursidiction. In some states, forcible entry into an occupied dwelling alone is considered enough to create a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary for the occupants. In Pennsylvania for example:

      (2.1) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (2.2), an actor is presumed to have a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat if both of the following conditions exist:

      (i) The person against whom the force is used is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered and is present within, a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle; or the person against whom the force is used is or is attempting to unlawfully and forcefully remove another against that other's will from the dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle.

      (ii) The actor knows or has reason to believe that the unlawful and forceful entry or act is occurring or has occurred.

      (2.2) The presumption set forth in paragraph (2.1) does not apply if:

      (i) the person against whom the force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence or vehicle, such as an owner or lessee;

      (ii) the person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the protective force is used;

      (iii) the actor is engaged in a criminal activity or is using the dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle to further a criminal activity; or

      (iv) the person against whom the force is used is a peace officer acting in the performance of his official duties and the actor using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a peace officer.

    28. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ITG stuff aside, the odds of you blasting your teenage kids or their friends are higher than getting a home invasion. If you can't check your target you're being irresponsible.

    29. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your theory would not fly here in Texas, where, if someone breaks into your home illegally, you have every right to shoot them. It happens all the time, but never hits the news. I know. I work for a smallish city and hear about things like this from the police. Texas has very strong personal and property protection laws. In one case, a man had thrown a trailer ramp down over a fence and was actually stealing a cow around dusk. The ranch owner grabbed his rifle from his truck, leaned over the hood and put a bullet into the thief. No trial and nor should there have been one. Nothing. As it should be. If someone breaks into a house in Texas, you had likely better be the owner who locked himself out... otherwise you might die of lead poisoning. And, in Texas, there is a law on the books that states there can be zero civil liability/lawsuits on behalf of any perps. Good state, good laws. Y'all all just behave now, ya' hear!

    30. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Jfetjunky · · Score: 1

      "You can only shoot someone in almost any state if they're threatening you"

      That's the more critical part. A linebacker sized teen could be quite threatening to a petite or young woman. A scrawny 13-something likely not threatening to a average sized adult male.

    31. Re:Sounds like a good way... by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      In Maine, this would meet the criteria for the justification of use of deadly force.

      In most of California that's how it would have gone down too. Just not a lot of gun owners in the coastal affluent parts. It's important to remember that California is not a homogeneous region, but a very large state with very different parts.

      If a young man entered a home in the Central Valley or Sierra Nevadas, it's like 3-to-1 odds the homeowner would point a gun at him.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    32. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Breaking into an occupied dwelling under cover of darkness generally IS considered a violent offense.

    33. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Aereus · · Score: 1, Informative

      Gonna go out on a limb here and say the kid has a mental illness that needs treatment. How else do you explain someone being "out of data" and deciding to pester not one, but two houses late at night for their wifi password? And when shoved out of the house, just casually rides off with one of their bikes as well. Something doesn't add up, that is way too bizarre.

    34. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if he's not killing or even assaulting people, then he hardly deserves to die. Certainly deserves to spend time in jail, maybe prison. Parole and community service ought to partially compensate society for his annoying antisocial behavior.

    35. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Castle Doctrine. It's kind of like getting modded down. Permanently.

      Play nice with others, respect society and your neighbors as much as you respect yourself, and perhaps you'll get modded up.

    36. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure I'd just shoot some unarmed kid.

      You're free to let them into your hose, but don't pretend it's a kid. Even if he were, his gun is just as deadly as yours (if you had one, you don't because you live in the good part of town where you don't have to deal with them). And you can't know the perp is unarmed until you throughly check for weapons, which is a really bad idea as it's a great opportunity to get stabbed or shot.

    37. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      Well, they may well have had a gun in the house for all we know, but the cops certainly had guns, and they didn't shoot the kid -- so while he's a minor therefore they're not releasing his name or other details, we do know one thing for sure: he wasn't black, otherwise he'd be dead now.

    38. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody with a "mental illness" like that isn't needed in society.

      CAPTCHA: stable

    39. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a faggot Cayenne, lol. Trump will die in Federal prison and there's nothing you can do about it. Also? You've never shot anyone you dumb faggot lol. You'd be fucking murdered instantly. Instantly! You're so fucking dumb lol.

    40. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need treatment

      I'm not sure what will help your condition. Perhaps behavioral conditioning every time you fail to apply the dialectic.

    41. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am probably one of the very few people in this thread that has actually been in a "use of force" situation that involved potentially deadly force. Not just once, but multiple times. Luckily, knock wood, I did not have to actually discharge my weapon.

      That said, the laws vary state to state for what is allowed and what isn't. In some states you are REQUIRED to try to flee first. Others you do not have to see a weapon in your home (Castle Doctrine). Castle Doctrine doesn't require "seeing a weapon" in order to protect yourself where I live. In addition, it covers your motor vehicles in my state, so being car jacked and killing them would be covered. In my state you are also shielded from being sued by the friends and/or family of the "bad guy" if you kill them, both criminally and civilly. Where I live, you have the right to defend yourself, and others, with up and including lethal force. For instance, if you are walking down the street and you see someone raping a woman, you can shoot the rapist.

      So, as someone who has actually been in this situation, AND lives in a Castle Doctrine state, I would have probably shot them. He is in my home. He has entered my bedroom. He has laid hands on me. He is a threat because he has broken into my home. He is a threat because he has searched out for the occupants of the home. He is a threat because he has actually laid hands on me, which by definition of the law is battery.

      While I commend the home owner for "showing restraint" and not shooting the intruder, I question the "sanity" of not doing so. He put himself and his family in danger. If the intruder HAD had a weapon and/or had the intent to cause harm, it, most likely, would have turned out very differently for him.

    42. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right there with you. In fact, every offense should get the death penalty. Not our fault if you're stupid enough to break the law!

      DEATH!!!!!!

    43. Re:Sounds like a good way... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      "Armed_And_Parkinsonsy"

    44. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At 17 he can join the military and potentially die for his country though.

      Instead of that he chose to be a thief and potentially die for that.

      Charge him as an adult, pretending he didnt know any better is uncalled for optimism. In the same vein I would feel about as bad for him as if it had been a 45 year old shot after breaking in. Specifically, no sympathy.

    45. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One of the things that makes me believe the kid's claim that they were "looking for WiFi passwords" was a lie is that Palo Alto, where this took place, offers FREE WIFI to all residents and visitors. Sounds to me like the kid was casing the joint. Not just this house, but also the neighbors. He *ALSO* stole a bicycle from another house.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/07/27/teen-allegedly-broke-into-couples-home-he-asked-them-wifi-password-police-say/

      From the WaPo article:
      "Later Sunday afternoon, police received a call from the residents who said the teen had asked for their WiFi on Saturday night and then stolen the bicycle. Police said in the statement that a woman who lived in the home had seen the teen outside her bedroom window, “motioning that he wanted to talk to her.” Police said surveillance video showed that he had moved the bicycle from their backyard to their front yard before asking for their password. When the residents told him to leave, police said, he rode away on it.

      Fun fact: The city of Palo Alto offers free WiFi to residents and visitors."

    46. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Here in Texas, my wife and I have "his and hers" .357 magnums for just such an occasion. As an ultra-light sleeper, I hear everything. And my wife can likely beat the shit our of most men being 5'9" 165 and a physical trainer with Krav Maga training. She's no slouch.

    47. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have zero idea what you're babbling about and have never shot anyone.

    48. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You screwed it up. It's "Now I need you to make sure he's dead".

    49. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, in all fairness you're one out of fifty states but contain over 12% of the country's population.

      Yeah, it's pretty nice here. Lots of people want to come. It's why there are more songs about people who really want to go to California than any other state. People dreaming about California, people wanting to go "way out west" to find their fortune, people who just want to come for the girls.

      But still, you can't say that in a state with almost 400,000 gun owners that you can't really own a gun any more. As one of those gun owners, I can tell you that my rights here don't differ significantly than they did when I lived in Texas. The big difference is that here it's socially frowned-upon to take my gun into the street and act like an asshole with it. But since that has never been my intent, nor is it my intent to go unload my weapon into some wild animal minding it's own business, I feel pretty free to do as I please with my gun.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    50. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Breaking into an occupied dwelling under cover of darkness generally IS considered a violent offense.

      But not a capital offense.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    51. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fact check: There are over 340,000 licensed guns in California, and gods alone know how many unlicensed ones. Source.

      The defenselessness of Californians is greatly overstated.

    52. Re: Sounds like a good way... by lucasnate1 · · Score: 1

      Castle Doctrine. It's kind of like getting modded down. Permanently.

      It is funny how "shooting people hysterically" becomes logical when you give it a fancy name.

    53. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's pretty easy for any parent who isn't a halfwit to instantly make the distinction between a ~6 foot thug shouting or skulking around like a cat burglar, and their little six year old kid wandering into the bedroom crying about a nightmare or whining about a glass of water.

      For parents with teenagers large enough to fit the physical profile, and dumb enough to behave like burglars in their own homes, I would think those kid needs the life lesson.

      And despite your presumed "odds", the number of kids being accidentally shot or otherwise assaulted by their parents is vanishingly small, despite the prevalence of all those scary guns and protective homeowners. 120.5 guns per 100 people in the US, yet it looks nothing like a warzone anywhere in the US aside from a few well known areas in a few big cities infested with violent teenage-gangs. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    54. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not go attributing to "People" that which is an exclusive trait of Americans ...

    55. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It sounds like he deliberately woke them up, which could mean actually shaking one of them awake. At that point you already ARE in close proximity, in a room that usually only has the one entry and exit, and the only course of action left is to get HIM away from YOU rather than the other way around,

      No, it just takes reading a report or two to see that they woke up with the kid in his room. The 'asking for wifi' thing was just the only excuse this kid could come up with at the time. Evidently, he's used it before. He was there to steal stuff. But because some idiots in the press seemed to believe his excuse, the write the article that way. Now seems many here believed it at well.

      He was there to steal stuff and got caught. I am laughing at the number of idiots who can't see that.

    56. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gun, knife, screwdriver, rock. Size is not armor. All will kill the strong and weak alike.

    57. Re:Sounds like a good way... by werepants · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to rationally turn on the lights and try to have a discussion with a criminal who has just broken into my home to ascertain what their intentions are.

      Just because it's legal doesn't make it right. In addition to the fact that this is morally indefensible behavior (they entered my home without permission, therefore murder them!?), this kind of impulsive response has often led to someone mistakenly shooting a friend, family member, or police officer. You should ALWAYS be certain of your target before firing, or even bringing a weapon to bear.

      Citations:
      https://www.thetrace.org/2018/...
      http://www.orlandosentinel.com...
      https://www.vibe.com/2017/04/d...

    58. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about a 13yo with a large hunting knife or a gun?

    59. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 2

      I don't know about colloquially, but breaking to an occupied house has historically been considered a crime of violence, since it inherently carries with it the very real potential for a confrontation between the criminal and the occupants. Contrast with breaking into an unoccupied home, which is just a property crime.

      Also, no one believes it would be better if the guy was shot. Any time a gun is used in anger is already very not good, the idea is to do so only when you are absolutely convinced that it's the best of a bunch of not-good options.

      As for the 'second-most-gun-owners' claim, you're going to want to express this per-capita :-P

    60. Re:Sounds like a good way... by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"Also, no one believes it would be better if the guy was shot."

      Of course, in hindsight.

      >" Any time a gun is used in anger is already very not good,"

      Had he been shot, it most likely would not have been in "anger", it would have been in terror and self defense... and depending on the conditions and such, 100% justified. The teenager was extremely lucky.

      >"the idea is to do so only when you are absolutely convinced that it's the best of a bunch of not-good options."

      Agreed, but at the same time, when awakened by a stranger in your dark house at night, you might not have a lot of time to make such decisions. Had the teenager been there to harm or kill them, well, consider those homeowners very lucky...

    61. Re:Sounds like a good way... by ChromeAeonuim · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure their age is at all relevant here. A 17 year old can be more than capable of getting into, and winning, a physical fight, especially against a 60 year old. Life isn't some anime or RPG where your ability to survive a physical confrontation is in any way fair. This whole thing of 'they're only seventeen!' that is popping up is not reflective of the real world at all. I'm sure there's plenty of 17 year olds out there who could kick my ass, especially if I just woke up. If they were 7, you'd have a point. Not 17.

      If you break into someone else's house, that's a good way of saying you are looking for trouble, and the people living there have no way of knowing how much. I think it is generally preferable when someone is not shot over when they are, but there'd be nothing wrong with shooting anyone who does that, 17 or not.

    62. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I'm sure not many kids are shot by their parents, but neither are home invasions much of a thing outside movies.

    63. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Breaking into an occupied dwelling under cover of darkness generally IS considered a violent offense.

      But not a capital offense.

      Actually yes it is, given the violent part being true.
      (To be clear here, I am addressing the theoretical posed as quoted above, NOT the situation from the article)

      A violent threat of deadly harm is very much a capital offense.
      What it may not be is a capital offense that utilizes *capital punishment*

      A killer that succeeds at murder has committed a capital offense, which may or may not receive capital punishment.
      Capital punishment is when they are given the death sentence. Non-capital punishment would be life in prison.

      Even a killer that fails and is only guilty of attempted murder has committed a capital offence, but the standard punishment is to not use capital punishment and instead be sentenced to life in prison.

      These two terms mean very different things.

      It's also important to realize that even committing the offence of threatening deadly force, it can be legal to stop them with deadly force in return, and if that results in their death it is called "self defense" not "capital punishment"

    64. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Defending your life and property is hardly "shooting people hysterically.

    65. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shoot first, ask questions later,eh? Fuck you people with no conscience.

    66. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, stupid enough actions should get you killed.

      That is a terrible way to think about other people. You are not a good person. I hope your influence on society, and that of like-minded people, becomes irrelevant in the coming years.

    67. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too stupid to be trusted with the use of force.

      Some people do have poor judgement. They tend to be noticed because of their behavior which is linked to their poor judgement.

      And then there are people who believe that all people fall in the same category with respect to stupidity. It takes a special sort of stupidity to make such blanket generalizations. That's right, I am looking at you, you arrogant twerp.

    68. Re:Sounds like a good way... by sjames · · Score: 0

      Brain still growing towards adult configuration. Still a kid.

    69. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Castle doctrine: drop his ass something proper with a triple tap of Hornady in either 9mm or .38+p. If you're in my house when you shouldn't be you fucking die; there will be no civil suit, nor will there be criminal charges in a right-thinking state.

    70. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You better have a damn good lawyer if ....

      You don't know the law and you are spewing the worst kind of inaccurate bullshit.

      SHUT THE FUCK UP.

    71. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Act like an asshole? You *are* an asshole.

      Oh yeah, how do you like that open carry court decision from a couple of days ago by that appeals court? With the current SCOTUS, whe that decision makes it up the food chain California will come to heel.

      You can bet your ass, bitch.

    72. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok then letâ(TM)s make men adults at 25 as thatâ(TM)s when their brains fully develop.

    73. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... neither are home invasions much of a thing outside movies.

      WRONG !!!!!

      "Between 2003 and 2007--

      *A household member was home in 28% of the 3.7 million average
      annual burglaries that occurred between 2003 and 2007 (table
      1). "

      I'll save you the trouble of doing the math :

      Between 2003 and 2007, there were 1,036,000 home invasions.

      From :

      https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

      ===
      Seriously, if you are too lazy to back up your absurdly inaccurate claims with 15 seconds doing research, then you need to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

    74. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who has actually been in "use of force" scenarios, it's not just the actual shooting that will bother you. Even in the cases where you don't end up firing your weapon, it will "leave marks" on your psyche and you will have to deal with it.

    75. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Always the jerked knee.

    76. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Breaking into an occupied dwelling under cover of darkness generally IS considered a violent offense.

      But not a capital offense.

      Come break in MY house and see how it works out for you, you stupid self-important prick.

    77. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No trial, no sentencing. Just results of a bad decision about breaking and entering.

    78. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consistency across a wide spectrum is the whole point of society.

      Don't like it? Tough.

    79. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "they entered my home without permission"

      "they were looming over my and my wife's sleeping bodies in the dark without our knowing they were there"

      Wonder why you didn't frame it that way?

    80. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the psychological trauma on the guy that shot him; killing another person, especially when you find out later that he was unarmed and no actual threat, is NOT something you just shrug off because the law says it was okay to do so.

      You don't speak for the rest of us.

      I'd kill someone who broke into my house with more more remorse than I have when I step on a cockroach.

      Human life is overvalued. There are 7 billion humans on earth. When some of those people commit violent crimes, killing them makes the world a better place. Remorse is for fools.

    81. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Actually yes it is, given the violent part being true.

      No, it's not. You should look up the meaning of "capital offense".

      It's also important to realize that even committing the offence of threatening deadly force, it can be legal to stop them with deadly force in return

      Asking for your WiFi password is not "threatening deadly force".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    82. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Come break in MY house and see how it works out for you, you stupid self-important prick.

      I like it when the Anonymous Cowards try to be internet tough guys.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    83. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somewhat correct - if the scrawny 13-something has been completely searched for arms (guns/knives), is not under the influence of certain drugs such as PCP, and is known not to have any special training in combat sports, and the "average sized male" is fairly young and healthy and not suffering from any physical disabilities. Otherwise, incorrect.

      (I say "somewhat correct" just as you said "likely" because someone who is not well trained can still suffer serious bodily injury in hand-to-hand combat with another untrained and unarmed person smaller than themselves. The scuffle can cause the larger person to lose their balance and crash to the ground, hitting their head on a heavy piece of furniture on the way down resulting in even lethal injuries. The smaller person can also get a "lucky shot" and do something like drive their finger(s) through the bigger person's eye(s) leaving them blind or partially blind.)

    84. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even in a state with a "duty to retreat" even in your own home, you are only required to pick that option if you can do so in complete safety. In reality, that's often not the case in a home intruder situation.

    85. Re: Sounds like a good way... by sjames · · Score: 1

      There is at least decent physiological evidence for that.

    86. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back on topic please. In the original post, no one was shot or even threatened with a weapon.

      If you wake me in the middle of the night and you're not my wife or kids you can expect a rather maybe beating coming your way. I've faught in bars and in the street and i can guarantee you that you will experience pain. Shooting someone over a parking spot is just plain stupid.

    87. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

      Who appointed you the judge of what is "right" ?

      Ahh, yes, no one did.

      So you need to shut the fuck up, and mind your own business, you sanctimonious prick.

    88. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. I'm saying people that break into other people's homes deserve to be killed. Some people (such as those very old, or those with physical limitations or disabilities) can't defend themselves so you're really defending the weak from future crimes.

    89. Re:Sounds like a good way... by JillElf · · Score: 1

      So, how can you be sure that the intruder is A) unarmed and B) a juvenile? Anyone breaking into my house in the middle of the night is automatically going to be considered dangerous. I'm sure as hell not going to ask his/her age before defending myself. If its obvious that the intruder is a YOUNG juvenile that does NOT pose an immediate physical threat, yes shooting is highly unlikely. A six-foot tall, 200 pounder is likely to be shot and I don't care if he/she is fourteen or forty.

    90. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, stupid enough actions should get you killed. That's how evolution, and the world, works.

      In that case, Trump voters are in for a very bad day.

      I can and will score higher on you on any standardized intelligence test, you arrogant prick.

      I voted for Trump because I knew it would piss off people I detest. That, and the fact that I know the Clintons are criminally unethical swine,
      made it easy for me to choose Trump. And every time I see people upset about Trump, it brings joy to my heart. Tough shit for you, faggot.

    91. Re: Sounds like a good way... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's not clear he was planning on stealing anything, unless you call using someone's wifi after they've given you the password stealing. The bicycle happened afterwards.

      I'll admit that the preponderance of the evidence is against him, but things aren't really all that clear. He may just have been acting really stupidly. (E.g., stealing the bicycle may have been petty vengeance more than theft, or maybe he wanted the wifi to call a ride.)

      The evidence, such as it is, is against any innocent interpretation, but it's also not clear enough to say that he was an intentional thief ahead of time.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    92. Re:Sounds like a good way... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You are jumping from a possibility to a certainty. Is certainty really that important to you?

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    93. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is needed in society.

    94. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shoot first, ask questions later,eh? Fuck you people with no conscience.

      Spotted the arrogant, self-assured, brain-dead moron who can't read.

      Here, I'll repost the relevant part of the GP's post:

      He is in my home. He has entered my bedroom. He has laid hands on me. He is a threat because he has broken into my home. He is a threat because he has searched out for the occupants of the home. He is a threat because he has actually laid hands on me, which by definition of the law is battery.

      I probably wouldn't have shot him without additional provocation - I wouldn't want have to clean up the mess his brains would make as they splattered all over my bedroom. Yuck. It wouldn't be much, but still...

      Also, we'll let you know when it's cloudy out so you can come up from Mommy's basement and take a few steps outside without getting blinded by that bright thing in the sky called "the Sun", you sheltered motherfucking shit-for-brains idiot.

    95. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      You are jumping from a possibility to a certainty. Is certainty really that important to you?

      Is 'obvious' not important to you?

    96. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually yes it is, given the violent part being true.

      No, it's not. You should look up the meaning of "capital offense".

      It's also important to realize that even committing the offence of threatening deadly force, it can be legal to stop them with deadly force in return

      Asking for your WiFi password is not "threatening deadly force".

      Grow a brain, Dope Fatso.

      Breaking into an occupied house at night is a deadly threat.

      And just why do you actually believe the story told by someone who broke into a house at night?

      Are you always such a credulous fool? Yeah, we know you are.

    97. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Iwastheone · · Score: 2, Informative
      Exactly. He's a burglar using wifi as an excuse. From Gizmodo, link below...

      Police say a couple in their 60s woke up in their Palo Alto, California bedroom around midnight last Saturday to find someone looming above them wearing a mask, or possibly a black T-shirt covering their face. The intruder asked for their wifi password.

      According to a city press release, one of the residents sprung to action, shoving the intruder down the hallway and out of the house. The couple then called the police, which found the suspect a block away from the house.

      Police arrested the 17-year-old suspect for prowling, residential burglary, and providing false information about his identity. The police department did not reveal his name as he is a minor.

      Police think the suspect entered the house from the side yard after cutting open a screen window-covering, but could not initially determine a motive. Officers say they did not find any weapons on the teen, but the resident told police that two kitchen knives had gone missing.

      Officers believe this is not the only time the teen trespassed in an apparent search for wifi that evening. Someone else had called 911, reporting that around midnight last Saturday she saw a teenage male in the yard outside her bedroom window, trying to get her attention.

      She and a male resident allegedly confronted the intruder, who told them he didn’t have any data left and wanted to use their wifi. They told him to leave. They didn’t call the police until the next day when the male resident noticed his bike was missing from the backyard. Security footage showed the teen had moved the bike to the front yard before going to the window to ask for wifi.

      Police later found the bike near where they had arrested the suspect. Officers are recommending the District Attorney add a charge of petty theft.

      https://gizmodo.com/teen-burgl...

    98. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      And just why do you actually believe the story told by someone who broke into a house at night?

      Because the story was not told by someone who broke into a house at night. The story was told by the couple who had their house broken into.

      You could save all of us a lot of time if you would just scan the summary.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    99. Re: Sounds like a good way... by c6gunner · · Score: 1, Interesting

      New rule: no drinking, driving, sex, or voting until 25.

      Nobody will pay attention to the first three, but the last one will ensure democrats never get elected again so it sounds like a good idea to me ...

    100. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      While it may be legal to shoot someone, that does not always mean it is the right thing to do.

    101. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but you didn't compare that to accidental shootings, and you're conflating burglary with home invasion.

    102. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fuck is wrong with you people? The US needs to be nuked into oblivion. Rid humanity of this festering disease.

    103. Re:Sounds like a good way... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that it would have been a better outcome if this teenager had been killed for this non-violent offense?

      A home invader?

      Can't say I'd shed too many tears over it.

    104. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      There is no black and white, right or wrong. You ask 1000 people from different places, times and backgrounds and you'll get a surprising amount of variation, and a lot of ifs, buts and maybe's.

      To suggest that your particular set of rights and wrongs are the correct set is pure arrogance.

    105. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homeless teen? Jail might seem like a comparatively nice place to spend some time.

    106. Re:Sounds like a good way... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      This kid deserves consequences for his actions, but it would've been an injustice if he got his head blown off for this.

      It would be unfortunate, but not at all an injustice.

    107. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Apologies for posting this as code, but it's the only way I could find to get lists past slashdot's lameness filter.

      This got me curious. So I looked online for the gun ownership rate per state (what percentage of a state's households own a gun).

      http://demographicdata.org/facts-and-figures/gun-ownership-statistics/

      That was interesting, but then I was curious how that correlated with gun homicide rate. That proved to be a little harder since for some reason all the news sources include suicides in their gun fatality rates. People who commit suicide by gun likely would've committed suicide by other means, so really shouldn't be included. Fortunately, a USA Today article breaks it down by suicides vs. homicides.

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/21/states-most-and-least-gun-violence-see-where-your-state-stacks-up/359395002/

      So I subtracted suicides to calculate the homicide by gun rate and sorted the states.

      rank state gun homicide rate
      1 Louisiana 11.29807497
      2 Mississippi 9.5120954
      3 Alabama 9.28833652
      4 Missouri 7.625174825
      5 Illinois 7.349261745
      6 Maryland 7.276944837
      7 South Carolina 6.654882155
      8 Tennessee 6.426829268
      9 Georgia 6.193316359
      10 Oklahoma 6.089817232
      11 Arkansas 5.954528651
      12 Alaska 5.847457627
      13 Indiana 5.499699097
      14 North Carolina 5.38594748
      15 New Mexico 5.369712794
      16 Kentucky 5.304404145
      17 Nevada 4.996586345
      18 Michigan 4.780813008
      19 Ohio 4.71476378
      20 Florida 4.622485207
      21 Texas 4.409841933
      22 Delaware 4.320720721
      23 Arizona 4.209872029
      24 Pennsylvania 4.117170418
      25 West Virginia 4.111445783
      26 Virginnia 4.038131554
      27 Kansas 3.924020888
      28 California 3.639855528
      29 New Jersey 3.368041237
      30 Wisconsin 3.227710843
      31 Montana 3.134020619
      32 South Dakota 3
      33 Colorado 2.835344828
      34 Wyoming 2.425742574
      35 Nebraska 2.394736842
      36 North Dakota 1.983333333
      37 Washington 1.915451895
      38 New York 1.906666667
      39 Oregon 1.794152047
      40 Utah 1.673513514
      41 Idaho 1.62892562
      42 Iowa 1.565277778
      43 Hawaii 1.5
      44 Connecticut 1.470930233
      45 Minnesota 1.460185185
      46 Vermont 1.269230769
      47 Massachusetts 1.250413223
      48 Rhode Island 1.142857143
      49 Maine 0.733333333
      50 New Hampshire 0.634090909

      Then to factor in gun ownership rate, I divided the gun homicide rate by the gun ownership rate. That gave a gun homicide per owner rate. Basically, which state' gun owners are more likely to murder, vs behave responsibly.

      rank state gun ownership rate gun homicide per owner
      1 Illinois 0.202

    108. Re:Sounds like a good way... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Well, they may well have had a gun in the house for all we know, but the cops certainly had guns, and they didn't shoot the kid -- so while he's a minor therefore they're not releasing his name or other details, we do know one thing for sure: he wasn't black, otherwise he'd be dead now.

      Interesting. We know that, do we?

      So the black incarceration rate is so high because all black suspects have been shot by police? I didn't know we incarcerated corpses.

    109. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One less criminal in the world. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that.

    110. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It makes it right in my view, and while you're welcome to your opinion, it won't protect home intruders from people who think as I do.

    111. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 0

      Other than that though, if you're in a castle doctrine state, if you - as a genuine surprise - find any intruder in your home or dwelling you're clear to shoot immediately.

      Sounds civilised...

    112. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Yes, stupid enough actions should get you killed. That's how evolution, and the world, works.

      Yet you're still alive after that comment. Clearly the world doesn't work how you think it works...

    113. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      A home invader?

      Can't say I'd shed too many tears over it.

      I have to say something here: It appears that more guns have not made people feel safer. Despite declining crime, it seems like gun owners are among the most frightened people on the planet. They're preparing to defend themselves from invasion and attack and dangers that just don't exist.

      Remember, only a small fraction of Americans own guns. Those who don't seem to make it through the day without wetting themselves over MS-13 breaking down their doors and molesting their fat wives, or left-wing homosexuals brutally attacking them by sprinkling glitter on their heads.

      I don't think Americans used to be such fraidy-cats.

      [note: I'm not directing this at you, cascadingstylesheet. It's just that all this "stand your ground" and "come and take them" stuff is really kind of weird and wimpy when you think about it. I'm pretty sure that back in the day, people just learned how to handle themselves with their hands instead of seeing gunplay as the solution to all social interaction.]

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    114. Re:Sounds like a good way... by swillden · · Score: 1

      I can tell you that my rights here don't differ significantly than they did when I lived in Texas

      This is not remotely true. Perhaps the portion of your rights that you choose to exercise don't differ significantly, but the scope of the rights that you have differ tremendously. From the types of guns you can own, to the process of obtaining them, to where you can have them, to the conditions under which you're allowed to use them, there are tremendous differences between California and Texas.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    115. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      From the types of guns you can own, to the process of obtaining them, to where you can have them, to the conditions under which you're allowed to use them, there are tremendous differences between California and Texas.

      That's just not true. The differences are very minor. I'm acquainted with a range right here in my super-liberal, left-leaning town and people come in there with all the same kinds of shooting irons that I saw in Texas. Maybe you won't find drive-thru 24-hour Liquor & Guns stores here in California, but those probably aren't such a good idea anyway.

      Unlike Texas, I'm less likely to have some beefy asshole in a "Texas-package" Ford F-250 wave a handgun at me because he thought I was going too slow on the highway, but that's got nothing to do with local laws and everything to do with a different culture.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    116. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know who/what it is, just shoot at it because you're scared. Now that's responsible gun ownership.

    117. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like it was an excuse to rob the home and then say "I was just trying to get the wifi password!". He's a common dumb thief.
      Never blame that on mental illness which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

    118. Re: Sounds like a good way... by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Then they wouldn't join the military

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    119. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yeah people just illegally break into somebodyâ(TM)s house to not steal stuff or murder the occupants all the time.

    120. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, right...this is CA, where you can't really own a gun much anymore.

      Revolvers, including large caliber ones, are still perfectly legal here in CA and this state has a Castle doctrine in legal precedent. If somebody breaks into your home at night while you are sleeping then it is automatically presumed, by law, that you had reason to fear for your life which gives you the right to use deadly force. It's up to the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person in your position would not reasonably have feared for their life in that situation and good luck convincing a jury that a burglar forcing entry into the family home while you are sleeping is not a justified case for shooting the guy dead.

    121. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, shoot first and ask questions later?

    122. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're are some things about your charter which are obvious to those of us here with a modicum of maturity.

    123. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the exception of some of the southern states, most of the states which rank high in this list have strict gun control.

      That is a pretty odd exception to make.

      "With the exception of states which disproves my assertion it looks like my assertion is correct."

      OK, I get that correlation isn't causation, but if you have to start by making exceptions to get to the correlation part then it is a bit much to claim causation after that.
      Especially since the opposite correlation have been shown in every other country in the world, but with the difference that you can't just go to the next state over to buy a gun there.

    124. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because a situation like that doesn't happen.
      People who breaks into your home are looking to steal stuff, not loiter in you bedroom where they will be caught.
      If you shoot them it will most likely be in the back when they run, not because they saw you have a gun, but because they saw that someone was awake.
      Unlike you, burglars doesn't want to escalate the situation into a murder.

      Not saying that there aren't some crazy people out there that would kill people if the opportunity was given, but they won't hang around in your bedroom and wait for you to wake up.
      They'll kill you long before that.

    125. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the black incarceration rate is so high because all black suspects have been shot by police?

      Nope. Black incarceration rate is so high because you typically find what you are looking for.
      If a crime has been done and you only look for black suspect then you aren't going to end up incarcerating a white dude.
      It is probably not that hard to find a guy who doesn't remember what he did that evening a crime took place.

    126. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll never understand the mental gymnastics of being so American that you're against democracy. I wish that we COULD magically send you to this magic place where you're always right and everyone agrees with you, just to be fucking rid of you and this purile toxic shit that comes out of your head.

    127. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're one of those people with a stupid view on how evolution works. Evolution occurs even when a population of a species lives perfectly peaceful lives. It happens because of differences in how succesfully inididuals procreate, it's not necessarily about who dies first, although dying young obviously does have an effect. But you don't have to rush evolution by killing individuals, it also happens by the accumulation of tiny efffects over many generations. And there is an advantage to not rushing it, it helps to maintain diversity in the gene pool and diversity is essential to survival when living conditions change and different properties suddenly become the ones that help to procreate succesfully.

    128. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feel free to move to any of the hundreds of nlgger infested shitholes around the world where they can brutalize you unchecked.

      You don't get to attack people. Sorry. You will be killed. End of debate.

    129. Re:Sounds like a good way... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Texas doesn't only have open carry, but they also have no magazine limits and you can feasibly get a concealed carry permit without being Diane Feinstein. There have been occasions where I wanted to carry concealed, but couldn't legally do so. I was going into sketchy places where I knew lots of other people had guns, and I was carrying cash. And no, the cash was not for the purpose of commission of a crime.

      The purpose of the second amendment was to keep military arms in the hands of the people, and to permit their defensive use. California's gun laws are unconstitutional right upon their faces. Not the background check, perhaps, or even the waiting period, but the equipment restrictions.

      Mag limits are especially stupid. All they accomplish is pushing buyers to larger, more profitable (for gun manufacturers and ammo manufacturers alike) calibers. People are more likely to buy a 1911 in .45 because it is slightly more likely to kill than a 9mm (though no more likely to disable) or a Fn five-seven because it's more likely to penetrate. Either way these weapons have higher retail prices than average, and in the latter case the bulk of the profits go to Belgium. Either way, equipment restrictions are basically handouts to the firearms industry because they mean more specialized law-skirting accessories and weapons are sold, at a higher price premium. Meanwhile, you can CNC up your own guns, and have whatever you want without a serial number. And this is becoming popular at a rapid rate.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    130. Re:Sounds like a good way... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Selecting a president was not an action of the people (who voted for Clinton) but still a national effort. And the nation has been having a long series of very bad days since.

      Three guesses how much of the farm bailout will go to farmers...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    131. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know right? This thread is full of patjetically trigger-happy hyper-aggresive super-violent (sounding) assholes confirming the ugliest stereotypes of americans much of the rest of the world believes in. Makes u wonder how much truth there is to it all.

    132. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brother! I too revel in being and asshole! Cutting off my nose to spite my face is my politicial brilliance shineing through.

    133. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but I do have a gun and I wouldn't shoot him right away. At least I hope I wouldn't. It's hard to say what would happen until you're in that situation. I was almost shot by my dad one night. My dog had ran away when I let him out to shit. I found dog and got her back inside. All the noise woke up my dad. He thought I was someone who broke in.

    134. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am

    135. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is so fucked up it is unbelievable.The US is seriously sick. Sick and fucking twisted.

    136. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Remember, only a small fraction of Americans own guns.

      About 40%.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    137. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PPH · · Score: 1

      But not a capital offense.

      That concept only applies to punishment by the state after the fact.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    138. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      About 40%.

      That "40%" was one poll that asked if they lived in a family that owned guns. Not even a household, but a family.

      The actual number of Americans that own guns is more likely under 10%.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    139. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did stupid shit when I was a teenager and I'm glad I wasn't killed for it.

    140. Re: Sounds like a good way... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      On later reading, it seems as if he *was* planning on stealing the bicycle. As for "people just illegally break into somebodyÃ(TM)s house to not steal stuff or murder the occupants all the time", that's literally true. E.g. my father had Alzheimer's, and would often walk into someone else's house in the middle of the night and claim it was his house. The police got quite used to taking him back home. I have no idea why the DMV didn't revoke his drivers license, not that it would have mattered.

      So it is quite plausible that a mentally defective person of any age might do just what first reading showed was going on. But as he repositioned the bicycle before entering....well, that does eliminate most of the plausible excuses.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    141. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you sleep with your gun you fucking pussy? You're basically admitting that you would kill an unarmed person because they woke them up at night. No threat was made, only what your panicked fucking brain does. You really are a piece of shit if you can't do the bare fucking minimum to prevent shooting or killing someone.
      The rest of your life, people around you will say, "so, what are you going to fucking shoot me, too?" Fucking pussy.

    142. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's some handy tips:

      • Do not conflate different things--home invasions aren't burglaries. (You get a better breakdown later in your source.)
      • Do not use all-caps like an idiot. Slashdot lets you do bold italic and even underscores and you can even layer them!.
      • Do not act like everybody who fails to agree with you is a moron, especially after doing the above.

      Others include naming your source along with just linking, because that makes a difference. You're using part of the National Crime Victimization Survey, and you also cherry-picked what you quoted. A potentially more relevant gem from your source:

      Between 2000 and 2007 the rate of household burglary of unoccupied households declined from 25.8 to 21.2 victimizations per 1,000 households (figure 2). In contrast, the rate of household burglary when someone was home remained stable between 2000 (8.5 per 1,000 households) and 2007 (8.3 per 1,000 households. The percentage of these burglaries that included violence remained stable between 2000 (6.3%) and 2005 (5.7%). Between 2005 and 2007, however, there is some indication of an increase in the percentage of violent burglaries from 5.7% to 7.7%.

      So, while the overall rate kinda-sorta went down, the odds of any given burglary being violent went up. Unfortunately for your argument, however, the source you're citing doesn't give numbers for how many people may have gotten injured because they got mistaken for burglars which is utterly and completely required for establishing if the odds of that are worse or better (though the omission implies that that rate doesn't favor your argument!), though it ought to be pointed out that if your teenager has 'friends' who think breaking into the place in the middle of the night is a Good Idea, they're not friends.

      Cell phones exist for a reason. If you're going to be turning up in the middle of the night? "Hi, sorry, if you hear the door in a few minutes it's just me..." Better to wake them up with a heads-up than wake them up because you let yourself in...and it should be common sense to not break into strangers' houses (especially in the middle of the night) to ask for the WiFi password. (If you really do need to? Knock, be polite and embarrassed, and if possible put it in terms of "I need help, but don't want to make you have to come outside to help me and this will work." It doesn't matter if you're lying, the important part here is not coming off like you escaped from an asylum.)

    143. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

      While blacks are more likely to be victims of violence, there was a Harvard study that proved they are no more likely to be shot by police than any other ethnicity.

      The media has a vested interest in telling people otherwise.

    144. Re: Sounds like a good way... by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Good laws saved a life of teen and of owner. If both had guns........

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    145. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Not even a household

      Yes. Exactly a household.

      Stop with the fake news already.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    146. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Yes. Exactly a household [pewresearch.org].

      The average size of a US household is 2.58 people. Even if you trust the Pew Research poll (which in itself is interesting, considering who you are), then that's 40% of households that own guns. So, from those two numbers, how many people actually own guns in the US?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    147. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      How fucking stupid are people getting these days?

      Palo Alto, of all places. Pull up the city on Zillow, scan around and check the house prices, and tell me how quickly (and how many) cops would show up if someone reported a break-in.

    148. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PPH · · Score: 1

      how many people actually own guns

      24%. 13% say they live in a household where someone else owns a gun. But if one of those 2.58 people is a spouse, then they (in most cases) own it as well. Community property.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    149. Re: Sounds like a good way... by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Hmm. One of the qualifications for serving in the U.S. House of Representatives is attaining the age of 25.

      Coincidence? Or the informal discovery of something later confirmed by formal scientific investigation?

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    150. Re: Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You ought to get over yourself. Shooting an intruder is not "shooting people hysterically". The only thing done hysterically is the reaction of idiots to people getting killed for doing things that they ought to get killed over.

      Now, in case I have to explain why it is someone might want to shoot a person breaking into their house:

      - A person breaking into your house has clearly shown disregard for one rather important law, and you have no idea of that person's motives.

      - You don't have time to ask for that person's motives, because if the motives include "I'm here to beat you senseless or kill you" you're already out of time for critical thinking.

      - You don't have a legal responsibility to ask for that person's motives. Get this through your head: an intruder in your living space is a danger, regardless of his or her after the fact stated intentions, regardless of what the hopefully dead corpse's mother who didn't raise him right says about how great a person he was on the inevitable heavily edited and light on facts video interview.

      - Protecting or even having public sympathy for thugs and/or brain dead idiots who break into other peoples' legally personal spaces simply encourages more of that. If it is known that there are serious and immediate consequences for people who seriously cross over what has always been a very bright line throughout all of human history, then you will have a lot less of that kind of behavior. The threat of jail doesn't seem to work. It's far from certain, especially in liberal controlled shitholes, and it's far from immediate.

      - Breaking into a person's house or other well defined property when there are clear and easily understood barriers you must cross, like a door or window, is as I said above a bright line that every human society greater than a handful of people have always declared to be a crime, and a serious one at that.

      Violence should usually not be one's go-to immediate reaction to MOST situations. Generally violence is only appropriate as a response to violence perpetrated upon you. An intruder in your home is a long-time legally defined exception to that notion, and for damned good reason. There are other reasons too, the well defined fear for your life or great bodily harm for yourself or someone you're with. Some states are stupid and require you to put yourself in danger by attempting to retreat from such a situation that occurs in a place other than your home, but others are more enlightened and have proper so-called 'stand your ground' laws. The law should never require me to put myself in danger or to take an action that a reasonable person would construe as being dangerous because of the actions of another. Turning your back on someone who's assaulted you or threatened to is a really stupid action and being legally required to attempt to is just idiotic.

      Frankly I wish it were legal to administer somewhat violent but not deadly immediate consequences to other kinds of anti-social behavior in public. That kind of stuff used to be rightly ignored because it was useful to society as a whole, but of course now we're more interested in protecting criminals than we are in either getting them out of our society or at least causing them to moderate their behavior out of self preservation.

    151. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      24%. 13% say they live in a household where someone else owns a gun. But if one of those 2.58 people is a spouse, then they (in most cases) own it as well. Community property.

      Fewer than 20% of all households were married couples with children, and that number's just been going down.

      https://www.census.gov/prod/20...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    152. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! It even mentioned that the kid stole the bicycle. These people are blind for not recognizing a thief when they hear about one.

    153. Re:Sounds like a good way... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Magazine size limits (well, until they were struck down by the 9th circuit last week; we'll see where that goes), no rifles with detachable magazines, a whole raft of restrictions on "assault weapons", .50 BMG is banned, there's a specific list of "approved" handguns -- no gun not on the list can be bought or sold in the state, only handguns that implement microstamping may be sold, only one handgun purchase in any 30-day period, to buy a any gun you have to get a Firearm Safety Certificate, 10 day waiting period for all purchases, out-of-state long gun purchases must go through a California FFL (federal law requires this only for handguns), a ban on possession of gun and ammunition at a gun show, no carry in the vicinity of a polling place, no carry near a demonstration, when transporting handguns the must be unloaded and in a locked container, may issue (in many counties effectively no-issue) rather than shall issue concealed carry, radically different laws around the legal use of lethal force...

      Vast, vast differences between California and Texas. As I said, perhaps they don't affect what you do, but they certainly affect others. I, for one, would never live in California specifically because I cannot stomach their gun laws. I'm actually not so enamored of Texas' gun laws either, but they're a lot better than California's.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    154. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      only one handgun purchase in any 30-day period

      I don't know how Californians manage to survive under such tyrannical laws. Although, there is no limit on long guns. You can buy as many long guns in a 30 day period as your heart desires.

      I mean, if there's one thing the Founding Fathers wanted to protect, it's our right to buy more than one handgun every 30 days. Personally, it's been three weeks now, and I'm really itchy to buy another one.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    155. Re:Sounds like a good way... by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      If you think that evolution is about "shoulds", you don't understand evolution.

    156. Re: Sounds like a good way... by houghi · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that the strict gun law prevented the death of s stupid kid, or that stupid kids deserve to die?

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    157. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PPH · · Score: 1

      So you are arguing that there is less overlap in the statistics due to married couples, each saying that they 'own' the same gun. And therefore, more guns.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    158. Re:Sounds like a good way... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Now you're moving the goalposts. Your claim was that there are no significant differences between Texas and California gun laws. I definitively showed that is not true... and I didn't even include all the differences. Man up and admit you were wrong, and I'll respect you for it. Or prove you're a putz. Your choice.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    159. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      So you are arguing that there is less overlap in the statistics due to married couples, each saying that they 'own' the same gun. And therefore, more guns.

      Nobody's questioning the number of guns. There are guns galore. More guns than people.

      My point is that a small percentage of people actually own those guns. The average gun owner has 8.1 guns. The majority of people own 0 guns, and somehow manage to survive day to day. Now, personally, as a fully qualified member of the well-regulated militia, I can generally only operate two guns at once. I suppose, in a pinch, I could wield two M-60's like Rambo, but it would severely impede my movement and be illegal in every state of the union. Damn liberals have made it impossible for me to shirtlessly wield two machine guns at once.

      And why are you still arguing with me about this. Shouldn't you be out watering the tree of liberty with the blood of school children?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    160. Re:Sounds like a good way... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Your claim was that there are no significant differences between Texas and California gun laws.

      The differences are not significant. How many people do you believe are frustrated because they can buy all the long guns they want every month, but only one hand gun (except for private party transfers, of course, over which there is no limit)?

      No, the differences are not significant.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    161. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't think your rights to gun ownership and personal protection are any different in California than they were in Texas, I hope you enjoy that prison cell you will ultimately and inevitably end up in. You got to be a damn fool to think there's no difference in the two places. Shit, you can't even own a stock IWI TAR-21 as it's too short, and that's even before the stupidity of SB880.

    162. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Break into my house at night and ask for the WIFI password or offer me a plate of chocolate chip cookies, and you'll catch a case of acute lead poisoning. I don't give a shit what your excuse is, you pose a threat to me and my family and I will do what is necessary to protect them.

    163. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you're moving the goalposts. Your claim was that there are no significant differences between Texas and California gun laws. I definitively showed that is not true... and I didn't even include all the differences. Man up and admit you were wrong, and I'll respect you for it. Or prove you're a putz. Your choice.

      How hard would it be for you to specifically state one difference that you find significant? Right now, you look like the one without any facts to support you.

    164. Re:Sounds like a good way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How hard would it be for you to specifically state one difference that you find significant? Right now, you look like the one without any facts to support you.

      Same A/C. My mistake. Slashdot hid that post and won't let me post again so quickly. Sorry.

    165. Re:Sounds like a good way... by werepants · · Score: 1

      Kid guilty of minor crime dies needlessly? If that isn't injustice, what is?

  2. Amateur by ArhcAngel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everyone knows the password is written on the router.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:Amateur by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So I wasn't the only one wondering. If you already break into a home, why not search for the fucking router. 9 out of 10 times you break into a home where the router is from the ISP and the WiFi Password is noted right on it. And that odd time when you actually manage to break into a geek's home, well, try it next door.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re: Amateur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or like my aunt, who has a giant whiteboard in the kitchen that she keeps all her shared passwords on.

    3. Re: Amateur by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Youâ(TM)re expecting rational thinking in the middle of a highly irrational plan. Thatâ(TM)s not a very likely combination.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re: Amateur by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      I once saw (not sure if it was a joke) router_password_is_red1234 in the available SSID list!

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    5. Re: Amateur by ole_timer · · Score: 1

      nice...I would have tried it to be sure...

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
    6. Re: Amateur by zlives · · Score: 1

      i have an open guest wifi, its rate limited.

    7. Re:Amateur by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      So I wasn't the only one wondering. If you already break into a home, why not search for the fucking router. 9 out of 10 times you break into a home where the router is from the ISP and the WiFi Password is noted right on it. And that odd time when you actually manage to break into a geek's home, well, try it next door.

      Why would you bother with a router when you broke in the house to steal stuff? I suppose he could have stole the router.

    8. Re: Amateur by ole_timer · · Score: 1

      ah, that would explain all the strange cars in your block...

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
    9. Re: Amateur by zlives · · Score: 3, Funny

      nope, they were there before i got here, i just didn't want them to break into my house for the wifi password :)

    10. Re: Amateur by ole_timer · · Score: 1

      fair enough!

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
    11. Re:Amateur by ememisya · · Score: 1

      I don't know man, back in the days criminals who are about to stab you would just ask to see if they can bum a smoke. Now it's like, "Ay man! ay! What's your WIFI password bro? You got a WIFI password on you?" I wonder if the "thief" was planning on something a lot more sinister like using the old couple's IP for his own evil purposes and when eventually investigated misdirect the authorities. Then again, talking to the people while riding the bike you stole from them, the kid doesn't sound too bright. It's possible however that someone smarter asked him to do it.

    12. Re:Amateur by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I don't want to steal anything than bandwidth. I'm not an ordinary criminal, I'm white collar!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. Parenting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the fuck did American parents raise their children this last generation? Jesus.

    1. Re:Parenting by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Not at all, very obviously.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Pr0n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, porn addiction makes some people do crazy things.

  5. How fucking stupid are people getting these days? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump stupid? Federal prison stupid? Lying to Mueller stupid? You're right, people are fucking morons - mostly people you associate with though, Cayenne faggot traitor lol

  6. You have that backwards asshole by SuperKendall · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Stupid enough to get into an argument over a handicapped parking spot, then kill the person trying to get you to stop

    The person who was killed was the poor bastard who had stopped with his family IN the handicapped spot. It was a Circle A regular who was pissed someone was using the handicap spot without using a tag and decided that warranted slaughtering a father in front of his kids, just because he was pushed to the ground while yelling at them.

    No way was that a stand your ground situation. That was murder.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:You have that backwards asshole by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It wasn't murder, though it was the result of stupid actions on both sides.

      1. Party A should not have parked in the handicapped spot.
      2. Party B should not have said anything about it.
      3. Party A should not have escalated the situation to violence by coming out and shoving the man to the ground and then continuing towards him.

      Although both parties made mistakes, the reality is that when the guy came out of the store and shoved him to the ground that was a physical attack. Whether he poked his nose where it didn't belong or not, he's not legally obligated to be beat (potentially to death) over it.

      Basically everyone try to play nice, but above all keep your hands to yourself. If you take a confrontation from verbal to physical it can have consequences.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      The only injustice in the circle k invident is that the man who was shot had successfully spread his stupid and violent nature by virtue of spreading his genes.

    3. Re:You have that backwards asshole by AlwinBarni · · Score: 0

      Agree, I would say a human life is more valuable then a handicapped parking spot, no excuse for shooting.

    4. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then tell the Sheriff of Pinellas County or the state prosecutor.

      Doubtless they are in need of your learned erudition. You might try hosting a seminar for stupid people everywhere.

    5. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you've never shoved someone before who was shouting in a family member's face? I'll remember to shoot the next guy that does that next time I'm in Florida.

    6. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty bizarre to call out escalating "to violence" but not escalating "to lethal force". Not that I condone turning an insult into a shove, but turning a shove into execution seems an awful lot more unbalanced to me...

    7. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only injustice in the circle k invident is that the man who was shot had successfully spread his stupid and violent nature by virtue of spreading his genes.

      You could have saved a lot of typing by just writing "the n*gger" which is what you undoubtedly wanted to do.

    8. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about not putting your hands on anybody? Is that worth your life? I'm a prior soldier, in my 50s and take no shit. If you get aggressive with me I'm not going to engage in fisticuffs with you, I'm going to put a couple of rounds into you.

      Don't start not shit and there won't be no shit. But then again, personal responsibility is no longer an vogue.

      Protip: your life means nothing to me.

    9. Re:You have that backwards asshole by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, Drejka most certainly should have said something. However, he should have said his piece and then moved on.

      McGlockton was probably in the right to shove Drejka away since by that time he was shouting and looking like he might become violent. If Drejka actually feared things were going to go beyond a well earned shove, brandishing a weapon might have been justifiable, but simply pulling it out and shooting was going too far.

    10. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was perfectly excused. I assure you, if you put your hands on me like that in a SYG state, I will pump you full lead without a shred of remorse.

    11. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let’s the get the story straight first.

      Low life asshole illegally parks in handicap spot.

      Hero confronts him.

      Low life ass hole assaults hero.

      Hero defends himself. And makes the world a better place in the process by removing one more scumbag from the earth.

    12. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, at the time of the shooting it was no longer about a handicapped parking space - it was about a guy who had been physically attacked and pushed to the ground by a hot headed individual and who defending himself from serious bodily harm as the attacker stood over him reaching down to his waistband/pockets.

    13. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you'll post your address, I'll mail you a knife to kill yourself with. Since you'd be afraid to use a gun to do so.

    14. Re: You have that backwards asshole by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      I wonder, though, about how his child and wife feel about witnessing him being killed. He was just getting his kid some candy.

      You can dehumanize him by just calling him 'asshole' but he was a father, moments earlier buying his kid some candy.

    15. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then he chose to commit assault and battery.

    16. Re:You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      Yup, that's what it means to have a "Stand Your Ground" law.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    17. Re:You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      If its only a shove then yes, it shouldn't be grounds to shoot him.

      But if the guy attacked him, a state with "Stand Your Ground" laws basically permits the use of firearms where there is a chance the physical attacker could grab his gun, or possibly (but not likely to) render him unconscious.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    18. Re:You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      and there is no longer any organized militia to stand against tyranny

      Actually, it has happened as recently as the 1946, and I may not even be citing the correct instance I'm trying to recollect.

      Fuck all political gun owners, every last Godless one of them, fuck them, every idiotic one.

      Fuck you for being a liberal chump. I'm totally against "Stand Your Ground" type laws (Castle Doctrine is much more reasonable), but am in total support of the 2A. The founding father's "intent" was to ensure that any group that tried to infringe on a citizen's rights (to life) would have to be willing to die for it. It was just as much about subverting federal or local gov't oppression, and wasn't limited to foreign threats. That's why the 2A included the words "a well regulated militia".

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    19. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itâ(TM)s legal, I guess, but that doesnâ(TM)t mean it makes any sense.

    20. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll be hauled to jail for mailing someone a knife unless you work for amazon and they ordered it.

    21. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Yup, that's what it means to have a "Stand Your Ground" law.

      Is it 1840 where you live?

    22. Re:You have that backwards asshole by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      And you've never shoved someone before who was shouting in a family member's face?

      Not once, though I can't recall anyone ever shouting in a family members face. I'm a calm, collected person, and I tend to associate with other calm people.

      To me it's akin to driving a motorcycle at 90 mph down the highway. Of course someone who does that doesn't DESERVE to die - but if they do it's just a matter of "Well, sometimes that happens. Don't do reckless things like that.".

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    23. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The entire family is low life trash. At least one is down. Now just two more to go.

    24. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, the law in that state doesn't allow you to kill someone just because they hit you.
      His life wasn't threatened and the clip makes clear that he should be arrested and charged. But the way the law works the attorney general will have to give his stamp of approval first because the sherriff would be liable if he acted and was wrong.

    25. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In what universe is your hobbyist collection of firearms going to go toe to toe with the US military? That is a fantasy bordering on the absurd and is not a valid reason to jeopardize public safety. Not like it matters at this point.

    26. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He dindu nuffin! He wuz jus goin church, right afer he getting candy! He wuz bout to graduate and be a doctor and sheeeet!

      He was a violent felon with 19 arrests, attacked a random person unprovoked, and died for his violent stupidity. Nothing of value was lost, his family is better off, and fuck you for defending violent pieces of shit.

    27. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worked pretty well in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, etc... Dipshit.

    28. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can easily kill someone shoving them to pavement, you fucking imbecile.

      Nobody is required to adhere to your arbitrary playground rules. You violent pieces of shit will die when you put hands on others. There's no debate.

      Get violent? Get shot.

    29. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. None of those places deterred the US military or impacted its power. Nothing in the way they resisted made an impact. It was the civilians at home in the US who did not like it and told their politicians to stop that shit.

    30. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. It was about the hotheaded individual who started an altercation(over which they have a documented history), refused to desist, and when an attempt to dissuade them by use of less lethal means, immediately escalated to lethal violence rather than restrain themselves.

    31. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't the playground, faggot. Get violent? Get killed.

    32. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off ur meds again hun?

      Deep breaths buddy. Deep breaths.

    33. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you lay down and die when attacked where you are?

      What fucking universe do you morons live in... You don't get to be violent without consequences. You get to die.

    34. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Live by the sword die by the sword. I really think our culture spends to much time moralizing about situations like what happened in Florida. That guy did not just comment on missing the handicapped space, he was shouting at a woman in a parked car and she was not behind the wheel. That is a scary situation, that's assault. If some was should doing that to my wife in public you'd better believe id shove or punch them to make it stop and than try to sort it out. I am not saying that out of some principle, it's just I'd see red and act probably without much thought. No I would not have misused the handicap space in the first place though. Still violence begets violence that guys response to abuse of the space was violent and out of line, and he got violence as result, he than escalated more, it worked out this time for him. Next time he pulls a gun someone else might do so as well. These things just happen, could have been a stabbing as easily as a shooting. Guy could have cracked his skull being shoved to the pavement. The gun is incidental, we really should just move on when this stuff happens. It's both human nature and statistical noise as far as society goes

    35. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would make it 2nd degree murder. The confrontation was instigated by the murderer and the murderer was the only one with a weapon.

      In a state that isn't ass backwards that would be prosecuted. You shouldn't get to start a confrontation and then claim self defense by escalating it beyond what the other party is doing as a reaction.

      GOP politicians are mostly inbred hicks with no morals.

    36. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a lie. Yes, it does happen, but it's usually somebody that's too drunk to protect their head on the way down.

      In the vast majority of cases shoving somebody to the ground alone is just simple assault.

      In civilized places simple assault does not give a person the right to use lethal force.

    37. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're also an ignorant psychopath who doesn't value human life.

      It's pieces of shit like you that make it unsafe to argue in public with strangers.

      And you're a textbook example of somebody who should never have a firearm. Mentally unstable and ignorant with no sense of decency.

      That's just not an acceptable use of a firearm. The firearm is only for use on another person to protect against a felony in progress to save a life. It's not because your dick is too small and you can't handle yourself.

      It's also the wrong weapon for a close confrontation. In that scenario, a knife is clearly the right weapon.

    38. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remain in your statistical noise of random murders, I'll feel safer in a civilised country that has civilised laws. The US went from looking for the American dream to having the American fear.

    39. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, just as the democratic Soviet Union did when the people of Petrograd were complaining about their sons and husbands being slaughtered in Afghanistan by the Taliban.

    40. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also a case of the USSR lacking the economic base to sustain their actions and US counter support.

      Sorry, but Soviet militarism lead to their downfall for economic reasons.

    41. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. And you shouldnâ(TM)t either. Not that you deserve to die if you do, escalating to violence is a stupid and dangerous thing.

    42. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod down for truth. Florida law doesn't trump federal when it comes to murder.

    43. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure are a lot of dead US soldiers to be described as "no impact."

    44. Re: You have that backwards asshole by guruevi · · Score: 1

      No, these laws still apply in the US because police coverage is low or non-existent, citizens need to defend themselves. When cops take 30-45m to drive somewhere (or in the case of inner cities 3h-never). It's also legal in the US to arrest someone even if you're not a police until police show up.

      Also because of the British that used to come in houses to steal stuff and quarter a brigade of soldiers in the name of the Crown.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    45. Re: You have that backwards asshole by guruevi · · Score: 1

      If you have to defend yourself against hard physical measures, lethal force is the best defense, when it comes to survival you always want to be one step higher than your opponent.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    46. Re: You have that backwards asshole by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Vietnam and Afghanistan especially were LOST by the US and not because some protests at home. The US military lost in a bunch of other places (eg Cuba) and history has proven that a larger, more powerful army can often be defeated by draining its resources (eg Russia-Japan and Russia-Germany to name a few).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    47. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's not ok to defend my girlfriend whom I might consider in eminent danger, but it's ok to get shot over a shove?

      How did we become so callous and stupid?

    48. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Have you read the 2A? It says every man has the right to bear arms to form a MILITIA, it says nothing about Joey 45 shooting someone cause he's mad.

    49. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again, what fucking universe are you from?

      Speaking words is not violence. Speaking words is not assault. You are absolutely batshit fucking insane.

      The ONLY violence here was committed by the 19-times arrested felon when he violently shoved someone without cause, and now he's dead, the world is a better place, and anyone who disagrees can join him.

    50. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In civilized places you don't have 19-times convicted felons roaming the streets shoving people in the first place. We live in a shithole where judges let violent trash like the dead subhuman go free.

      You are defending a violent felon, whining and sniveling about his useless life, instead of defending the people he victimized. You are a massive piece of shit.

    51. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His hoodrat girlfriend was in no danger. She was being spoken at from 10 feet away.

      You do not get to be violent over spoken words. You get shot, and die your deserved death.

    52. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "looked like he might become violent."

      Fucking listen to yourself, you stupid piece of shit.

      The victim was shoved violently, without cause. The subhuman 19-times arrested and convicted felon who died initiated the violence and got exactly what he deserved.

    53. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Self preservation is not murder, and you don't get to decide if your violence against someone else is a threat to their life or not.

      If you get violent, you get shot. It's really fucking simple, even for a fucking moron like you.

    54. Re: You have that backwards asshole by sjames · · Score: 1

      You must be talking about some other incident. Nobody in this incident had a history of 19 arrests.

      That odd sensation you feel is probably just the ears and tail growing in. Soon you'll make a loud braying sound. Don't worry, it's just a wild take, it'll all go away in the next scene.

    55. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Contract+Gypsy · · Score: 1

      Please folks call it by it's real name, it is the castle doctrine. Wikipedia covers it quite well.

      --
      Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
    56. Re:You have that backwards asshole by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Well, no. The topic that was being discuss here as a tangent was the recent shooting in Florida where someone was pushed to the ground and responded with deadly force. THAT shooting was justified under "Stand your ground" law. "Castle doctrine" applies within the home not when out and about.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    57. Re: You have that backwards asshole by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      It's trite but true, but remember the old saying that you tell kids: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt.".

      Shouting is not violence. It's not an attack and she was not in danger - eminent or otherwise. Granted - he was being an asshole, but you cannot physically attack someone no matter how mean you think their words are.

      You can stand there all night screaming at someone. They will never, ever die from it.

      You CAN however physically beat someone to death. Once you take that step to make an argument physical that person is within their right to defend themselves.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    58. Re: You have that backwards asshole by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      In what universe is your hobbyist collection of firearms going to go toe to toe with the US military? That is a fantasy bordering on the absurd and is not a valid reason to jeopardize public safety. Not like it matters at this point.

      Wait - I thought all these AR15's were "military grade weapons of war"? It's funny how anti gunners go from civilian guns being fully semi-automatic assault weapons complete with the shoulder things that go up when it suits them, to ineffective pea-shooters incapable of taking out a fly when that framing suits their argument.

      The reality is that A) the weapons that most civilians have really aren't that bad, and B) most significant civil wars involve a decent chunk of the military also fracturing and choosing various sides as well. This is even more likely when you consider that the military as a whole tends to lean very right-wing. If anything becomes truly worth rebelling over the political group that currently has the guns in this country is likely to take the majority of the military with it.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    59. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you support the Second Amendment and be against clearly reasonable stand your ground laws. The only thing those laws say is that you don't have a duty to retreat in the face of aggression that a reasonable person would believe constitutes danger of death or serious bodily harm. That last does not require that the aggressor be armed btw. Legally all those laws do is remove the idiotic "duty to retreat" that one has in some states outside of one's home.

      Inside one's home in most states you're fine shooting an intruder without that person having committed an overt act against you because breaking in is overt act enough. Outside, even with stand your ground laws, the effect and intent of which are wildly exaggerated by an anti-gun press, a person you shoot has to have done something or credibly threatened to do something that a reasonable person would take as a grave threat.

      The alternative is that you believe it's OK to have the state require you to attempt to run away from, say, an armed robber or even just one who out-muscles you. Such an action is akin to the state requiring you to attempt suicide because that's what it is. If, outside your home, someone commits an act or credibly threatens to commit an act that will cause you great harm you ought to be free to end the aggressive action or the threat thereof by any means available to you.

    60. Re:You have that backwards asshole by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      In the old west gun fights were very rare. Nothing like what hollywood would have us believe. People had a whole lot more respect for one another.
      More guns would cut down on a lot of the horseshit out there.
      More guns, less crime.

    61. Re:You have that backwards asshole by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      BTW, The famous OK Coral fight? That was gun control. If they didn't try to push their gun control that fight never would have happened.

    62. Re: You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      It says every man has the right to bear arms to form a MILITIA, it says nothing about Joey 45 shooting someone cause he's mad.

      The 2A about the implied right to self defense, from any threat (foreign invader, federal agent, town lynch mob, etc.) which necessitated the right to possess firearms uninfringed. But look, the right to own killing weapons for self defense is as spelled out in the CotUS as the "right to privacy". The CotUS doesn't give individuals the right to shoot other individuals, that's why murder is a prosecutable crime. Its also quite clear that it means the federal gov't cannot prevent any law abiding citizen from possessing firearms, and arbitrary regulation/registration of firearms on the federal level would be "infringement".

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    63. Re: You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      So it's not ok to defend my girlfriend whom I might consider in eminent danger,

      With a firearm? Hell no. Except in a SYG state, where you possess a firearm, decide to get into a shoving match with a deadly weapon, and either party decides to shoot the other first and claim "I thought my life was in jeopardy".

      How did we become so callous and stupid?

      Speak for yourself, callous and stupid. I don't favor SYG laws.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    64. Re:You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      I don't live in 1840 or in Florida today. I'm just pointing out how SYG applies to the querant's question. I do not support SYG laws or incestuous procreation.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    65. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In most states, assault is basically the imminent that of violence. Battery is the charge for actually striking someone. So, no.

    66. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      No, these laws still apply in the US because police coverage is low or non-existent, citizens need to defend themselves. .

      Sounds like 1840 to me...

    67. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      More guns, less crime.

      Yet the facts say otherwise.
      Look I'm not anti gun, I grew up in a family of farmers and hunters so they have a place, but guns don't solve all problems. In many cases they create problems as evidenced by the over represented gun violence statistics from the US compared to the rest of the civilised world.

    68. Re:You have that backwards asshole by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Read (pdf version of more guns less crime) https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp...

      They lay it all out for you. If you want more problems with guns? Pass more gun control. Well known, this goes clear back past the Roman Empire BTW with swords and knives. Same arguments. Same bullshit. Same results. Whenever they say "common sense", don't believe it.

      Facts - Chicago has the toughest gun control in the country. They also have the worst problem. Do your own research if you like.

    69. Re: You have that backwards asshole by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Still better than 1984 where you live.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    70. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Read (pdf version of more guns less crime) https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp...

      'Site can't be reached'.

      If you want more problems with guns? Pass more gun control. Well known, this goes clear back past the Roman Empire BTW with swords and knives. Same arguments. Same bullshit. Same results. Whenever they say "common sense", don't believe it. Facts

      Facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Outside of a handful of crazy countries in South America, the US has the most lax firearms laws and the highest gun violence rates. Facts....

    71. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The unarmed are cowards? Riiiight. [i]Unless[/i] your occupation is a dangerous one and bumps up against violent crime, whether you work graveyard in a bad part of town, or you are a LEO, [i]if you carry a gun for protection[/i], you're a coward, pretty much by definition, and statistics will have you: you will sooner injure or kill yourself or someone you love than you will ever have an opportunity to defend against violent crime, let alone successfully defend against violent crime. "Hey, I have a gun! Come at be, bro!" Carrying deadly weapons without legitimate or pragmatic purpose is simply stupid. "Bbbbut its my right!" Yes, it is your right to be stupid.

    72. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you didn't notice, you were excepted from the curse. Read the next sentence in GP post. If only all gun owners were of that ilk, there would be no gun violence problem in the US (gun misfire accidents is another story). Go to the range this month. You've been putting it off, and your sharpness has dulled a little. And if you don't clean it yourself, have it cleaned at the range.

    73. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are incorrect. The Constitution never even gets close to addressing self-defense. Check the minutes of the Constitutional Congresses. This is well-documented fact: The Founders debated the issue of including self-defense in the 2nd, and intentionally and consciously left it out of the Amendment. . Neither is this oversight. Our Founders did not intend for the US citizenship to be as armed as they are today. Their intent was for actual well-regulated citizen militias, which for the most part disappeared over a century ago making the 2nd Amendment, in most aspects today, inapplicable. The right of self-defense stems from a far earlier document, Magna Carte or take your pick, and even before that understood as a natural right. Making self-defense inclusive in the 2nd is redundant, thus the notion was debated, voted upon, and ultimately extirpated from the Amendment. But Justice Scalia shit all over the Founders because the propaganda machine that is the NRA told him.

    74. Re: You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      You are incorrect. The Constitution never even gets close to addressing self-defense.

      So, you are against the Roe v Wade decision because there is no specific "right to privacy" spelled out in the CotUS? (Which was the whole point of my statement.) Are you also suggesting there was no intent for militias to defend the state citizenry from federal tyranny?

      Their intent was for actual well-regulated citizen militias, which for the most part disappeared over a century ago making the 2nd Amendment, in most aspects today, inapplicable.

      I consider a gun club sponsored by a local politician to satisfy the definition of a well-regulated militia. The National Guard ceased to be a true (state) militia when it could be federalized. The 2A is not specifically limited to foreign threats.

      Our Founders did not intend for the US citizenship to be as armed as they are today.

      Actually, if anything, the Founding Fathers were more likely to have intended citizens to be as abundantly armed as they are today; what they didn't believe in was a permanent standing army!

      Making self-defense inclusive in the 2nd is redundant,

      The 2A is not merely about enshrining self-defense as a concept (as you pointed out, is redundant). Its about the right for all citizens to possess firearms, ostensibly for self-defense, although the founding fathers were more concerned about enabling its citizens to resist outside threats (including potential federal tyranny).

      But Justice Scalia shit all over the Founders because the propaganda machine that is the NRA told him.

      Just like SCotUS shat over the CotUS with their Roe v Wade decision. Either you believe the CotUS to be an (inevitably) interpreted document, or you're a strict Originalist, in which case very little about today's CotUS resembles the original founders intent.

      BTW, you're arguing with the wrong guy when it comes to the specifics of Scalia's interpretations of the 2A. I do believe states (and localities) can regulate or restrict access to firearms (in line with Scalia), but I also believe the CotUS can intervene when any gov't body passes arbitrary laws to undermine the use of firearms for self defense (gun locks, limitations on ammo purchase, etc.). I do not believe the 2A enshrines the access of firearms for individual self-defense, but I believe in its original intent to enable the citizenry to defend itself and its community from all threats, including the federal gov't. So whether its community defense or individual defense, the issue is moot. The CotUS enshrines the citizens' right to possess firearms (until the 2A is modified or repealed). The 2A is a failsafe for potential tyranny and abrogation of the Rule of Law by fiat. It also means I can be elderly or lacking physical prowess, but still be able to access a tool to kill anything or anyone I consider a threat; it does not mean that I am immune to the consequences of my decisions or my responsibilities inherent to firearm possession.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    75. Re:You have that backwards asshole by Contract+Gypsy · · Score: 1

      You got me, SYG is different than the castle doctrine. In some states though, the SYG is included as a subset of the castle doctrine. For clarification, on the castle doctrine, it also covers you when you are in the outhouse, lean-to, garage, and dog house, ie anything that puts a roof over your head, including cars. It also covers when you are off your property but you are in your car.

      --
      Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
    76. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm the GP replying. Your arguments regarding privacy and Roe v. Wade are strawman fallacies. Also, there is a difference between self defense and common defense; these are entirely different ideas. You are correct about one thing alone in this post: a militia has been defined by SCOTUS as pretty much any group of people with guns, even a gang or a gun club, but this is not what the Founders intended. The spirit of the 2nd as envisioned by the Founders was a selfless right to defend your neighbors against tyranny, foreign, domestic, either. Justice Scalia's reinterpretation made it a selfish right, every man for himself. See the difference? One idea is selfless and one idea is selfish and they are worlds apart.I don't know who has been filling your head with garbage regarding how the 4th Amendment's implicit right to privacy has anything whatsoever to do with the explicit right to bear arms of the 2nd Amendment.... there is no implict right to self-defense in there. Your arguments are flawed, weak, and fallacious, but at least you are passionate.

    77. Re: You have that backwards asshole by AlwinBarni · · Score: 1

      I believe you would, it does not mean it's humane.

    78. Re: You have that backwards asshole by AlwinBarni · · Score: 1

      Ancient Code of Hammurabi "an eye for an eye ..." is by all standards considered today immoral, yet you propose "a life for a push".

    79. Re: You have that backwards asshole by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      Your arguments regarding privacy and Roe v. Wade are strawman fallacies.

      No, not when one argues that the 2A doesn't defend an individual's right to possess firearms based on its specific wording! OP is claiming that the 2A only applies to a rigid interpretation of militia and has nothing to do with "self-defense". It should be quite obvious to anyone that's followed Supreme Court decisions that there is a difference between interpreting the document from an "Originalist" point of view (strict adherence to wording and the intent of someone dead two hundred years ago) or "Loose Construction" point of view. There is no wording about "self defense" in the 2A. There is no wording about "right to privacy" in Griswald vs CT. Is the latter decision "illegitimate" because no Originalist would consider it valid law? If its legitimate, how can you even argue the 2A is not about "self defense"? They are both based on concepts which have no basis in a strict wording interpretation of the CotUS.

      The spirit of the 2nd as envisioned by the Founders was a selfless right to defend your neighbors against tyranny, foreign, domestic, either. Justice Scalia's reinterpretation made it a selfish right, every man for himself. See the difference?

      Yes I do. Charming. You (actually the anti-gun rights philosopher) make up a differentiation between of "selfless" and "selfish" rights, and yet support laws that are utterly in conflict with a basic interpretation of the 2A, because you rationalize about concepts not even mentioned in the CotUS. You are the Queen of Ideological Rationalization.

      Let me know when you consider "right to privacy" CotUS interpretations as legally invalid, then you can proceed to argue with me whether individual self-defense is irrelevant to the 2A. You can't have one without the other, because they use the same philosophical mechanism to argue justification for their resulting decisions. Otherwise, lets not waste each other's time.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    80. Re: You have that backwards asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not antigun rights. I am in fact very much Pro-2nd Amendment. But I am anti-bullshit. And the NRA has been lying to you and gun owners since their inception. I am not arguing the semantics of the 2nd. We know what the Founders intended, because we can view their arguments in the historical record, in the minutes of the Constitutional Congress, and they absolutely did not intend to address crime, hobbies, or hunting, with the 2nd, only tyranny.

  7. Polite social engineering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best social engineers always say "please".....

  8. Editors - Please English thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Police say, Police said, Police are saying -- ALL REFER TO THE SAME SUBJECT. Stop this. I don't know what School is teaching kids to write like that but it's HORRIBLE.

    You don't need to keep refering to it if your source isn't changing. Not to mention that opens you up to biasd narratives by selectively quoting without context.

  9. messed up kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should have been asking "what's the frequency?"

  10. The real problem? by anegg · · Score: 2

    The police said the real problem was breaking into an *occupied* house (emphasis mine). Isn't the real problem the fact that the individual broke into a house that wasn't his? The fact that the house was or was not occupied shouldn't be a mitigating circumstance.

    His excuse "looking for a WiFi password" isn't a good reason to enter a home that didn't belong to him (trying to find a phone to call 911 for someone dying would be a good excuse in my opinion [if true]). Based on the other circumstances described in the article, I'm disinclined to believe that he was just looking for a WiFi password. Sounds more like a very troubled youth getting kicks acting out. Hopefully the police/justice system will give him the consequences he needs.

    All of the discussion about whether or not he could have/should have been shot is moot. He wasn't (fortunately). But the event is certainly a signal that action is required to head off a future problem.

    1. Re:The real problem? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact that the house was or was not occupied shouldn't be a mitigating circumstance.

      Breaking into an unoccupied building is burglary, breaking into an occupied building is home invasion. The latter is a much more severely punished crime than the former.

    2. Re:The real problem? by anegg · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the insight; I hadn't considered that the charge would ratchet up.

    3. Re:The real problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a moron. Breaking and Entering is Breaking and Entering. Period. There is no such thing as "Home Invasion".

      The order of the offenses from leastest to mostest is: Break and Enter, Break and Enter with Intent, Break and Enter a Dwelling House, Break and Enter a Dwelling House with Intent. Whether or not there were persons in the dwelling house at the time the Break and Entry of the Dwelling House was committed is entirely irrelevant.

      However, being in peaceable possession of a dwelling house gives one the absolute right to resort to deadly force to repel *any* intruder (including unidentified police, or even the owner). You are not however permitted to "pursue" the intruder and you must kill them with dispatch and have them die within the Dwelling House of which you have peaceable possession.

    4. Re:The real problem? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, home invasion is generally a form of aggravated burglary instead of an entirely separate offense, but they're not the same crime.

      Again, to take Pennsylvania as an example (18 PA Cons Stat 3502), burglarizing an unoccupied building is a felony of the second degree (maximum sentence 10 years), burglarizing an occupied building is a felony of the first degree (maximum sentence 20 years).

    5. Re:The real problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's California. They're doing their best to legalize as much crime as possible.

  11. No, Dan by sexconker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The real issue is the fact that he entered a house that was occupied.

    -Sgt. Dan Pojanamat

    No, Dan. The issue is the fact that he broke into a house that wasn't his. The fact the it was occupied means you can't just ignore it this time.
    Fix your fucking city.

  12. He didn't care about the WiFi by bjdevil66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He had a canned excuse ready just in case he ran into a resident while trying to burglarize the home.

    From TFA:

    Police said surveillance video showed that he had moved the bicycle from their backyard to their front yard before asking for their password. When the residents told him to leave, police said, he rode away on it.

    Did he need to move the bike to the front yard before asking for a password? The cops likely know this, and it's only newsworthy because his prepared lie was so ridiculous.

    1. Re:He didn't care about the WiFi by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      He had a canned excuse ready just in case he ran into a resident while trying to burglarize the home.

      From TFA:

      Police said surveillance video showed that he had moved the bicycle from their backyard to their front yard before asking for their password. When the residents told him to leave, police said, he rode away on it.

      Did he need to move the bike to the front yard before asking for a password? The cops likely know this, and it's only newsworthy because his prepared lie was so ridiculous.

      Seems /. editors like msmash are in the very small percentage of humans that would actually fall for this excuse. The fact that he/she changed the headline to something totally false is telling.

    2. Re:He didn't care about the WiFi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is probably true. Years back I ran an errand and when I returned there was someone parked in my driveway, engine running. I yelled out what do you want from my car. They cool as a cucumber responded with "I am picking up my daughter". I thought nothing of it, they backed out, I pulled in and went in the house thru the garage. I found the back door kicked in and one room ransacked. I had interrupted a burglary. No one hurt, but to this day I am amazed how calm, collected and cool that woman was responding to me while her partner was escaping the house. There is a sense of violation that never goes away after you get broken into.

    3. Re:He didn't care about the WiFi by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Thanks for highlighting that point. I hadn't noticed that:
      Police said surveillance video showed that he had moved the bicycle from their backyard to their front yard before asking for their password.

      That adds a lot of premeditation to the event, and strongly narrows all the plausible potential ameliorating circumstances (like mental incompetence).

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    4. Re:He didn't care about the WiFi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems /. editors like msmash are in the very small percentage of humans that would actually fall for this excuse. The fact that he/she changed the headline to something totally false is telling.

      Seems both this site and the red one have been recently sabotaged by unknown interests. I'm not sure what the goal of this injected bias is, but it's been quite pervasive.

    5. Re:He didn't care about the WiFi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems /. editors like msmash are in the very small percentage of humans that would actually fall for this excuse. The fact that he/she changed the headline to something totally false is telling.

      I guess you just came out from under a rock.

      You just now figured that the /. editors are bold faced liars that would screw their own grandparents out of every nickel and dime??

  13. Fun Fact from TFA by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny
    From TFA:

    Fun fact: The city of Palo Alto offers free WiFi to residents and visitors.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  14. Sounds like mental illness by Headw1nd · · Score: 1

    Honestly, the part where he specifically woke the people up makes me think this is more a case of mental illness than burglary.

    1. Re:Sounds like mental illness by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the other houses he burglarized?

    2. Re:Sounds like mental illness by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

      ...because mentally ill people don't repeatedly steal...

    3. Re:Sounds like mental illness by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Not after getting a magazine emptied into them they won't

    4. Re:Sounds like mental illness by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

      ...not really the point, but ok...

    5. Re:Sounds like mental illness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please read AndrBranca's book

    6. Re:Sounds like mental illness by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      No, 20 years old and long obsolete.

      Stand your ground, baby! Take out the trash!

  15. Re: Superfaggot Kendall is a fucking moron lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it was polite for him to ask nicely rather than say hacking in and stealing it.

  16. Um... no it's not by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    being light on common sense doesn't necessarily mean you're not good for something else. There's no shortage of math experts who are also autistic you know. We shouldn't be so quick to kill something just because it's not immediately useful. We sent mother-f'ing physicists to die in the trenches of WWI before we figured out they could make bombs and rockets.

    The stupid ones aren't the occasional dumb kid who does something for who knows what reason, but the folks who's response to any wrong doing is to call for blood. That kind of crap is what got the US in 8 pointless wars and counting post 9/11 (seriously, look it up).

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Um... no it's not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just as they have the potential for greatness, so do they have the potential for evil. You see the best, I see the worst, which is the statistically more realistic outcome. Most criminals re-offend, so it's far more likely that he'll go on to a life a crime and hurt, maim or kill other people eventually. At the very least he'll probably cause mental trauma and steal property. If he dies young, it's most likely to be of benefit to society in the long run. It's also not cheap to jail people...

  17. You haven't met very many of us Americans by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    have you?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:You haven't met very many of us Americans by swillden · · Score: 1

      have you?

      I have. Including several who have killed people in perfectly justified situations. And it really messed them up, even though shooting was the best option they had. Most eventually worked through it. Others... didn't.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  18. "the real issue is the fact that he entered a house that was occupied."

    Had it been unoccupied, of course, that would be totally fine.

    1. Re:oh by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      Had it been unoccupied, of course, that would be totally fine.

      Well then he could have found the wireless router, looked at the presumably default password in the bottom, got online and carried on.

    2. Re:oh by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Had it been unoccupied, of course, that would be totally fine.

      Well then he could have found the wireless router, looked at the presumably default password in the bottom, got online and carried on.

      If that was indeed his objective, which nobody can know until it is too late. (Not that that would make home invasion ok, even if it was.)

      Since in reality he had moved their bicycle (which he later stole) from the back yard to the front, before he even "asked" for the wifi password, it sounds like that was a just a bizarre excuse that he had ready.

  19. Nope... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Yet you support trump wholesale.

    Only retail, with coupons.

    Ha!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  20. In Palo Alto, NOBODY is ILLEGAL Right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He should have been declared an undocumented family member, been given the right all the rights any other member of the family is entitled to, including the router's admin password. Anybody insisting he be removed should have immediately been accused of being a racist, sexist, homophobe, islamophobe.

    Surely world-famous NAZI collaborator George Soros will pony-up the money for this idiot to sue to assert all his rights to live in this home he entered while merely lacking the proper documents. If George isn't available, the progressives who run the place will find tax dollars for him.

    [/sarc]

  21. Re: Superfaggot Kendall is a fucking moron lol by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

    hacking in and stealing it

    Clearly he was not able to do so, possibly because he was a fucking moron who broke into someones house to ask for their wifi password. If this is not a clear case of internet addiction then I don't know what is.

    --
    There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
  22. Whatever, cunt by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

    be against clearly reasonable stand your ground laws

    There's no such thing as reasonable SYG laws. It basically lowers a shooter's responsibility for the death they chose to inflict. They're out in the public, they're not held responsible to avoid situations potentially "requiring" the use of their firearm, and they basically state "I thought my life was in jeopardy at that moment", and it doesn't matter whether the potential threat was armed.

    We live in a legal system where the state must prove guilty "beyond reasonable doubt", "presumed innocent" until proven otherwise, and cannot be prosecuted for the same crime once rendered "not guilty" by the jury, regardless whether the jury, judge, or prosecutors erred. That standard should readily acquit any person firing in actual self defense. What SYG does is excuse the shooter for contributing to the shooting situation, and make any doubt argument a credible legal defense against conviction. Forget the fact that any clueless jackass can now carry a killing device, play LEO, drive a 1/4 of a mile, put himself in a dangerous situation, and kill an unarmed teen. SYG basically gives any person the right to act belligerently towards another person, in a state that gives him the right to carry a killing weapon, use it to kill the person, and then claim "I thought my life was in peril so I fired first rather than avoid a situation where I may need to kill".

    Inside one's home in most states you're fine shooting an intruder without that person having committed an overt act against you because breaking in is overt act enough.

    No one is getting shot accidentally when the perpetrator is breaking into a house they don't belong there. If they're too mentally compromised to avoid breaking into a house, the benefit of the doubt should be given to the homeowner. Even LEOs aren't supposed to be breaking into houses without a warrant; they're fair game to be shot by the homeowner as well.

    The alternative is that you believe it's OK to have the state require you to attempt to run away from, say, an armed robber or even just one who out-muscles you. Such an action is akin to the state requiring you to attempt suicide because that's what it is.

    No, it is not. In every mugging, overwhelmingly both the perp and the victim survive the encounter. Apparently, you seem to feel you have the right to shoot dead someone who attempts to mug you. Fine, but now the perpetrator can shoot you first in the parking lot if they know you're packing a gun, and say "he pulled the gun on me, so I shot him first. SYG". As long as there were no witnesses, and he didn't try to take your credit cards, he gets off scot free for murder. I'm not going to even waste my time explaining how this law gets applied for KKK members.

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  23. CEO in the making by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some Silicon Valley unicorn is gonna snatch this alpha dog up so he can make it rain disruption.