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Citing 'Economic Efficiency,' Epic Says Fortnite's Upcoming Android App Won't Hit Google Play Store (theverge.com)
Fortnite developer Epic Games will not be distributing its massively popular game on Android because the Play Store takes a 30 percent cut of the revenue. Instead, the company plans to distribute the software to players via the official Fornite website, "where Android users can download a Fortnite Installer program to install the game on compatible devices," reports The Verge. From the report: For Fortnite on iOS, Epic decided to distribute the game on the App Store, most likely because it had no other method of getting iPhone users to easily download the software. (Apple, unlike Google, does not allow iOS users to download apps that are not first approved by its internal review processes and distributed through its proprietary marketplace.) With Google and its more open platform, Epic can get away with distributing the app itself. CEO Tim Sweeney says the primary motivation here is twofold. Epic wants to maintain its direct relationship with consumers. (The company currently distributes Fortnite on PC through its own Epic Games Launcher, instead of using Valve's popular Steam platform.)
The second reason is financial: Epic does not want to pay Google's 30 percent cut, especially considering the entire game is funded through in-app purchases. "The 30 percent store tax is a high cost in a world where game developers' 70 percent must cover all the cost of developing, operating, and supporting their games," Sweeney says. "There's a rationale for this on console where there's enormous investment in hardware, often sold below cost, and marketing campaigns in broad partnership with publishers." But on mobile platforms that are open, like Android, "30 percent is disproportionate to the cost of the services these stores perform, such as payment processing, download bandwidth, and customer service," he says. Sweeney adds that Epic is "intimately familiar with these costs" from its direct distribution of Fortnite on Mac and PC. There's no word as to when the Android version of Fortnite will be available, but rumors suggest it will be tied to the upcoming Samsung Galaxy Note 9 launch on August 9th.
The second reason is financial: Epic does not want to pay Google's 30 percent cut, especially considering the entire game is funded through in-app purchases. "The 30 percent store tax is a high cost in a world where game developers' 70 percent must cover all the cost of developing, operating, and supporting their games," Sweeney says. "There's a rationale for this on console where there's enormous investment in hardware, often sold below cost, and marketing campaigns in broad partnership with publishers." But on mobile platforms that are open, like Android, "30 percent is disproportionate to the cost of the services these stores perform, such as payment processing, download bandwidth, and customer service," he says. Sweeney adds that Epic is "intimately familiar with these costs" from its direct distribution of Fortnite on Mac and PC. There's no word as to when the Android version of Fortnite will be available, but rumors suggest it will be tied to the upcoming Samsung Galaxy Note 9 launch on August 9th.
I would rather have that money go to Epic (who actually built the game) than to Google (who is just doing some web hosting).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I completely get why Epic wants to do this: 30% adds up to a lot of money for a game that pulls in hundreds of millions a month. But for the broader Android user base this is a terrible idea.
Having the ability to install external APKs and actually enticing non-technical users to do it are two different things. The average smartphone user isn't prepared to use external sources, and if they do, it's going to end up like malware on Windows. Which is to say there's going to be trojan APKs left and right pretending to be Fortnite, or Fortnite with hacks, etc.
Fortnite's original game mode - Save The World - was a zombie survival game. If users have to install APKs from unknown sources, we're going to be surviving a whole new kind of zombie outbreak...
Google was recently fined Billions by the EU for a supposedly closed system (eg requiring Google Play on all Android devices), yet Apple gets away with a far more closed system. Stupidity knows no bounds
Sure, we all know that *BSD is a failure, but why? Why did *BSD die? Once you get past the fact that *BSD is fragmented between a myriad of incompatible kernels, there is the historical record of failure and of failed operating systems. *BSD experienced moderate success about 20 years ago in academic circles. Since then it has been in steady decline. We all know *BSD effectively lost all of its market share but why? Is it the problematic personalities of many of the key players? Or is it larger than their troubled personas?
The record is unambiguously clear on one fact: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
Excellent example of how the insane greed of the corporate cancers is bad for the human peasants caught in the crossfire. Encouraging people to download software from even less secure sites is NOT a win even if one of the corporate cancers is able to get a bit more profit.
NOT to suggest that the Google Play website properly vets the security of the apps, but it's better than nothing. Now there will be a YUGE number of potential victims who know about getting what they think they want by bypassing the Google's pretenses of security. The best solution approach would actually be a public display of the developers' financial models, but something about the EVIL of the google has clearly blinded them to the obvious.
On the bigger religious problem, "There is no gawd but profit, and Apple is gawd's #1 prophet", I think the best solution approach would be a pro-freedom anti-greedom tax system. Just dreaming of pie in the sky since the politicians are bought and paid for by the corporate cancers that mindlessly worship profit. Truly mindlessly, since they remain inhuman monstrous cancers no matter what Judge Kavanaugh thinks.
Time's up, but ADSAuPR, atAJG.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
As I'm the go to tech for an army, well a platoon, of preteens that are very much addicted, and I don't use that word lightly, to Fortnite I figure I'm about to take my kids and their peers for all that sweet, sweet lemonade stand money.
If you're big enough you don't have to pay the respective monopolies. You can motivate your customers to jump through one more hoop. There are only very few who can afford to do that. And fortnite is one of the biggest if not the biggest right now.
Encouraging people to download software from even less secure sites is NOT a win even if one of the corporate cancers is able to get a bit more profit.
The Fortnite website is not "less secure" than the Google play store. One of those has been found with malware.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Does the average user even know how to do it?
My guess is no.
I mean, since Google won't take a cut like Apple does I guess it would be only fair. Pass the savings to the costumer, right?
Hanlon's razor aside, I know for fact that the parent is not as stupid as his comment appears; therefore I must conclude that he is either a libertarian or a malware author.
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phantomfive, if you really don't get it: even if Epic's site is clean (for now), this precedent will inevitably lead to kids side-installing malware to get their games.
>Encouraging people to download software from even less secure sites
How is Fortnite handling their own downloads less secure than entrusting it to Google? If anything it's more secure
>NOT to suggest that the Google Play website properly vets the security of the apps, but it's better than nothing
That would only be an issue if the Fortnite app being distributed is itself insecure, unrelated to how it's being distributed. Their android version doesn't need vetting by Google
I get what you mean though for other apps. If Fortnite is doing it, then so are others, and their reliability can be questioned. But for this case it doesn't make sense handing over 30% of the money players spend, the scale of Fortnite turns that percent into something huge, they would need a serious reason to even consider it
30% is a fair market price for the service provided. The service in question is access to a vast marketplace (..)
What's Google's cut for then? Download bandwidth: peanuts. Promotion? Sure, but for a game like Fortnite that will go through many channels of which Google Play is only one. Perhaps not even an important one. Customer support? Surely for a game like Fortnite, Epic's job will go way beyond what Google provides in that area. Malware checks? A non-feature for a big-name trusted source like Epic.
Being a longtime game developer and distributor, Epic knows what these costs are. They've done the math, and found that Google's cut is much higher than their service is worth. At that point it's only logical to look for a way around it. For a small Indie developer that may work out differently, but Epic isn't one of those.
Okay it's not user friendly install-wise. But at least Epic will be left with more $$ to put into their next projects. Win-win for Epic & their users alike.
Sideloading could become more difficult in future official Android builds as a response to this...but hopefully Google will choose the high road.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
this precedent will inevitably lead to kids side-installing malware to get their games.
Why don't you think of the children? That is an emotional appeal. Just like arguing that violent video games will lead children into a life of violence.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Sweet, and Google better try to understand the message before it gets busted up for the same reason that Apple is getting busted
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Less secure than Google Play? LOL! You're smoking the massive crack pipe over there.
Are you a fucken moron? Being able to directly download from the devs website to put software on your own device is one of the best freedoms you can have on your electronic device. Your fucking post is saying software should only be obtainable from walled gardens. If you can't trust the dev you're not going to trust the dev in the store either so how does fortnite being in the store protect you more from malware?
If you want to argue that someone could download the wrong one, go to Google play right now and type in wifi analyzer.
Apple start serving paid Android apps for a 15% cut.
Game over man, game over.
Mostly I think you failed to understand my point, but I am quite willing to accept your premise that the Fortnite website itself is as secure as the Google Play website. It does NOT change my point unless you insist that EVERY website with apps to be downloaded is secure.
However, I disagree with you regarding your claim that Fortnite has no malware. Absence of evidence is not proof of absence. You can't prove any negative.
I also note that you ignored the more serious problems mentioned by my comment nor did you offer any trace of a solution for anything. Oh, wait. Just par for today's Slashdot. Mostly I miss the wit and humor that used to be found in the odd corners of Slashdot.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Have you not read the stats? iOS barely reaches 5% of global installations. You don't beat down the little guy who has such a paltry customer base.
However, I disagree with you regarding your claim that Fortnite has no malware. Absence of evidence is not proof of absence. You can't prove any negative.
I don't think you disagree with my point. I said "One of those has been found with malware."
I also note that you ignored the more serious problems mentioned by my comment nor did you offer any trace of a solution for anything. Oh, wait. Just par for today's Slashdot. [On the bigger religious problem, "There is no gawd but profit, and Apple is gawd's #1 prophet", I think the best solution approach would be a pro-freedom anti-greedom tax system]
I have no solution for this. The solution is love for and from all mankind?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Which is why Google will fold like a house of cards. Think about it: they don't want this either. They'll want to swing this back around and provide favorable terms to epic and others should enough of the user base become accustomed to trusting such installation methods.
Excellent example of how the insane greed of the corporate cancers is bad for the human peasants caught in the crossfire.
It's an excellent example of how monopolies begin to crack under the weight of their own largesse.
NOT to suggest that the Google Play website properly vets the security of the apps, but it's better than nothing.
No absolutely not. It's much worse than nothing. The existence of the app store is a potent source of perverse market incentive fueling the creation of malware.
Nope, people need to be protected from their own ignorance, or they'll be taken advantage of by people like you.
Fortnite is a game for keyboard and mouse, and big screen. Who in their right mind would play this FPS on a mobile device?
I will not be installing it.
It is a win because if successful it shows the corporate cancer known as google they need to adopt a more reasonable stance or they can be worked around.
Hold on, Iâ(TM)m still registering my new website fortknight.com. It totally isnâ(TM)t a ripoff of another game that uses your phone to mine cryptocurrency.
There's nothing preventing people from making purchases in an on-line store. It should work quite well since the game itself is client side, but all user data (skins and whatnot) are on their own servers.
This obviously wouldn't work for smaller games/apps/devs. They rely too much on Apple to handle payments and serve out data. Fortnite apparently has cross-play (one account, assuming you didn't get banned via PlayStation), so there's no reason Apple should be able to block this.
Amazon's Kindle app on iOS works on this principle, I think. (No clue if it allows purchasing or just accesses existing books/data.)
While it seems we are largely in agreement on the problems, you seem to have nothing resembling a solution or any constructive improvements for mine. A "problem" with no solution is just part of reality. If you can't fix it, then you better learn to enjoy living with it.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
And meanwhile the rest of us will continue to be caught in the crossfire.
However, I actually disagree with you. Cancers are not planning so far ahead. They are only trying to swallow each other and the last cancer standing gets to kill the host. In this case, our society.
I'm increasingly convinced the resolution of the Fermi Paradox is human extinction.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
You on the other hand worship nothing but love and cosmic unity. Material wealth is a meaningless concept to you, as should be expected, as an angelic, enlightened soul such as yourself is far, far removed from these wretched forces of pure evil.
You're right Epic. Let people enable "Unknown sources" - something which Google has been fighting with for years to avoid malware being widely spread and now you're basically saying that since you cannot come to an agreement with Google over your greed, you're leaving most of your users fucked, sorry, wide open to attacks.
And I'm sure as hell, the Internet will be full of alternative malware-ridden Fortnight APKs because you told everyone that installing APKs from sources other than Google Play is safe.
In short, fuck you Epic. In a swift sweep you've pretty much destroyed Android's security.
And something tells me you won't have that luxury with iOS, will you? So, Apple's tax is OK with you apparently. This sounds like a campaign against Google. What kind of grudge do you have?
Including yourself, first of all.
"NOT to suggest that the Google Play website properly vets the security of the apps"
99% of the apps on the Play Store are spyware. That is unsurprising given that Google's whole business model is based on data rape.
It'd be interesting if Epic returned a third of their extra Android revenue to users by discounting in-app purchases by 10% on the Android version. I don't think this would lead to a general reduction in the Apple Tax, but it could lead to a special deal between Eplc and Apple for a 20% rather than a 30% App Store cut.
That word doesn't mean what you think it does.
In fact, the sentence almost says the opposite of what you intended.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Fornite? (LIne 2). Sounds like a heat-resistant mineral.
Can't BeauH1-B even copy and paste correctly?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The cancer here is google (and apple for that matter but one problem at a time). It needs to be cut out or the patient will die, yes unfortunately the treatments for such cancer can make you very ill but the alternative is to let the cancer run its cause and that usually results in death for us which is far worse then some unfortunate bad security while this shit is sorted out.
Epic's website maybe not. but you do realize that Fortnite for Android has already been out for over a month now right?
Oh wait, those are FAKE Fortnite apps, installed via... the same way as the real Fortnite app.
You may note that none of those apps are on Google Play. And what else is not on Google Play?
I can only imagine there will be a new round of Fortnite phishing apps to steal account credentials along with payment information.
All I can say is you know what the headlines are going to say soon with people installing all the fake versions and Apple will flatly point to those when Epic comes around asking Apple to get rid of the 30%. (Which is apparently making quite a lot of money for Epic - something like $2M a day comes solely from the iOS version).
Epic might have inadvertently poisoned the well on this one if all the headlines are about how to avoid getting the wrong version of Fortnite.
But Fortnite players seems unhealthily obsessed with the game. I saw something in the past week about this being the most profitable game at the moment, taking up something around 7% of the entire digital market's spending?
So I imagine Fortnite players would have no problem doing anything to keep the game on them even more. I saw an image recently of a guy who had taken his computer and monitor onto a train/bus/whatever so he could play Fortnite the entire time.
Google being a monopoly. Who really employs you Ms. Vestager?
It sounds like you are dreaming about how much better Apple iPhones are. Dream on friend, dream on.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
this 30% is an unfair burden. It's excessive and only this high because the rich are so selfish, greedy and corrupt. They can't make money honestly so they have to steal and cheat by exploiting the public.
Most markups, interest rates and fees are unjustified, excessive and abusive.
Play Store manages security updates and holds my payment info. Not going to give up on those features for a game, so they lose a customer here.
If Fortnite scale is so large, then they should be able to negotiate a better deal with Google.
Because now I have to verify TLS certs, owners, UTF8 charactors, credit card processor, etc. for Epic. Malware authors already have dozens of copies of malicious Fortnite software in the wild. The Play Store allows me to easily verify the author. Epic's does not.
... walled gardens and locking down games accusing google of unfair practices. That is rich.
Type in www.epic.com to get the apk - half of those things you pulled out of your bum are irrelevant and unnecessary.
It's easy to tell you don't know the topic you;re talking about. The game in question is free. There is no credit card processing required to get the APK.
"Malware authors already have dozens of copies of malicious Fortnite software in the wild."
And? So what? There could be a thousand virus ridden copies of photoshop on piratebay too but who gives a crap if you are not getting it from there and youre getting it from the devs website.
The only valid concern you can have about Epic's website is it could be pwned, but you would have to be a fool to think the google play store is impervious from being pwned too. And where do you think the play store gets its APK from?
I would really love to see some app store competition. This 30% take on everything is ridiculous. If the big app stores would charge a flat fee, or cap their take at a certain dollar amount, much more quality software would show up on the app stores, instead of just rinky-dink cheap and free apps. If there were app store competition, we'd have a lot better choices.
They should charge more from the people on the appStore to make up for the 30% instead of only criticizing google. The option to sell the product to the customer instead of being forced to a middle-man is something pretty good.
That word doesn't mean what you think it does.
In fact, the sentence almost says the opposite of what you intended.
Intent was to convey sloppiness rather generosity. Monopolies can afford to be lazy and sloppy with allocation of resources. A company held to the fire of a functioning market is forced to work for it while remaining frugal or die.
While it seems we are largely in agreement on the problems, you seem to have nothing resembling a solution or any constructive improvements for mine. A "problem" with no solution is just part of reality. If you can't fix it, then you better learn to enjoy living with it.
I don't use app stores. Never have, never will. I don't have Google app store/play services installed on my phone.
It is sufficient to provide users with tools to manage and transform trust. Monopoly dictation of standards from up high by those who claim to "know better" is dangerous and counterproductive to society.
Users should have the ability to configure systems to visit only approved sites or run approved software by any authorities user deems to be trustworthy.
Users should have the ability to configure systems to visit any site yet be warned of sites or software known to authorities to be harmful.
Users should have the ability to visit any site or run any software with themselves being the exclusive judge of trustworthiness.
The problem of judging trustworthiness is as old as civilization. The Internet sucks so hard at it because analogous tools to manage trust suck or don't exist. There will always be risk beyond which efforts to mitigate are deleterious.
Beyond trust there are two critical problems with Android OS that must be resolved:
1. Fundamental design defects enabling parade of privilege escalation vulnerabilities and other effective isolation gaps.
2. Android must not be intentionally engineered to be hostile to the end user's interests. Take it or leave it demands of users by applications carries unacceptably deleterious consequences.
Denying access to contacts, messaging history, location, networks, storage and other resources must be able to be achieved secretly without applications having the means of understanding access was denied.
This is something Google explicitly refuses to do in order to protect its interests in exchange for significant unnecessary peril borne by end users.
Thank you for attempting to clarify your position. Unfortunately, it appears that you are a Libertarian, but one of sufficient sophistication not to identify yourself as such. Under that theory of interpretation, you have already discovered that Libertarian "philosophy" is badly broken and therefore avoid the tag. Again, under that hypothesis, I would say the problem is that Libertarians don't actually understand freedom and there was quite a bit of evidence of such confusion in your reply. I actually consider it is possible that the negative mods are additional evidence from the negative mods. I would regard it as an absolute refutation of your position if those mods actually came from your own sock puppet identities. (That is not an accusation, just a hypothesis that would probably be difficult to test (if you have the skill to hide them). There are other hypotheses, too, though mostly I regard negative mods as a metric of the brokenness of Slashdot's moderation system.)
Or maybe it's just that you didn't or even can't understand my original comment on this story, the main suggestion contained in it, or the underlying philosophy as encapsulated in my sig?
Three substantive reactions to your latest long comment:
(1) Still nothing that I could recognize as a constructive approach towards a solution, just a lot of angry criticism.
(2) Your philosophic fixation is crippling your ability to use your hardware tools. The only ways this would not be true would be if you are either such a stellar programmer that you can create every software tool you want or if you personally know and trust such programmers who provide you with the tools.
(3) You again ignored my primary solution, which would be for the google to provide more of the financial information that would increase the "meaningful" aspect of the choices of which Android apps to freely choose.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
What part about "now I have to verify TLS certs, owners, UTF8 charactors" are you not understanding?
This bullshit where every individual provider has their own way of doing shit is why end-users just click "Yes, please get me through this bullshit security nonsense" and don't verify this. When I'm downloading shit for my phone, I'm on a mobile browser and far less likely to want to go through bullshit of verifying all this crap. If you don't care about security or don't care about your time, then go ahead and use any store you want.
I personally don't have time to waste on companies that are giving me more work so that they can earn more money.
That's what they're doing. Google said no, they said okay, well distribute it ourselves. This is advanced negotiations.