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A Look at Facebook's Presence in Myanmar Where Despite Public Outcries, Facebook is Still Struggling To Contain Hate Speech (reuters.com)

More than 1,000 anti-Rohingya posts featuring calls for their murder among other hate speech were live on Facebook last week, Reuters reported Wednesday. A probe by the news agency indicates that the network is still being used to encourage violence against the Muslim group in Myanmar despite the tech firm promising to tackle the issue. Reuters reports some of the material had been online for six years. Facebook's rules prohibit "violent or dehumanizing" attacks on ethnic groups. However, the US-based firm mostly relies on users to flag related offending posts rather than hunting them out itself, in part because its software has not had enough training to reliably interpret Burmese text.

Vice reports that Facebook has hired an outside company to look into its role in spreading hate speech and enabling ethnic cleansing in Myanmar.

110 comments

  1. Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Facebook is basically fighting a flood with a broom then perhaps they should just not allow anyone in Myanmar to use Facebook for a while. Assuming, that is, that Facebook is actually serious about prohibiting "violent or dehumanizing" attacks on ethnic groups, as they say.

    1. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming, that is, that Facebook is actually serious about prohibiting "violent or dehumanizing" attacks on ethnic groups, as they say.

      Exactly! If they were really serious they would just shut it down completely. That would stop it everywhere!

    2. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by rsborg · · Score: 1

      If Facebook is basically fighting a flood with a broom then perhaps they should just not allow anyone in Myanmar to use Facebook for a while. Assuming, that is, that Facebook is actually serious about prohibiting "violent or dehumanizing" attacks on ethnic groups, as they say.

      Or at least, just start suspending accounts. Of course, that would mean "reduced engagement" and FB can't get off that drug.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    3. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Assuming, that is, that Facebook is actually serious about prohibiting "violent or dehumanizing" attacks on ethnic groups, as they say.

      If Facebook turned every server off today and nobody could access, much less post, anything on Facebook, it would not be adding one thing to prohibiting attacks on anyone. Facebook can no more prohibit "violent or dehumanizing" attacks than they can prohibit the sun from rising in the morning.

      All they can do is remove speech from their forums. Ethnic cleansing activities will continue without noticing the "disturbance in the force" that Facebook shutting down would cause. (Note that "the disturbance in the force" is a reference to science fiction, which is how real the disturbance to ethnic cleansing a shutdown of Facebook would be.)

      If people in Myanmar are not reporting these posts so that Facebook can follow their existing policies, then the fault lays with those who expect others to act for them instead of using the tools they have been given. I.e., with those who read these posts and say "gosh, that's awful, I wish someone would do something about those."

    4. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming, that is, that Facebook is actually serious about prohibiting "violent or dehumanizing" attacks on ethnic groups, as they say.

      Exactly! If they were really serious they would just shut it down completely. That would stop it everywhere!

      The only way to stop hate speech is to eliminate internet anonymity and to generally forbid all speech on the internet that is not preemptively cleared by censors before publication. Until the internet takes responsibility and eliminates the insanely-dangerous practice of allowing people to post anything they like without being cleared by the proper authorities first, there will always be hate speech. Once posted/published, it is impossible to undo the damage retroactively. Without the elimination of anonymity it will be nearly impossible to prevent those banned from internet access for their hate speech from spreading further hate anonymously while avoiding and eluding arrest & prosecution for their crimes.

      Technology has flipped society's entire paradigm 180 degrees. The reality is that now the principles of individual rights like freedom of speech in the US BoR are the most dangerous and destructive forces in a modern progressive Democratic Socialist society operating from principles of Post-Modernism as the US has swiftly become over the last 3 decades.

    5. Re: Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "operating from principles of Post-Modernism"
      Man you people don't even realize how dumb you sound do you? Hurr durr socialism post-modernism GOT 'EM

    6. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      The only way to stop hate speech is to eliminate internet anonymity and to generally forbid all speech on the internet that is not preemptively cleared by censors before publication.

      ..okay buddy, stopped reading right there.
      Not suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that since Myanmar apparently can't follow Facebook policies, and the problem is rampant, that perhaps they should just disable Myanmar access to Facebook for a while, until the problem is 'handled'. I mean for fuck's sake they're essentially using Facebook as a C&C server for attacking and killing these Rohingans, and the Myanmar government doesn't give a fuck about it. Wouldn't you make an exception in an extreme case like this?

    7. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Listen, buddy: if your Very Large Social Media Website was being used to not only promote violence against an ethnic group, but more or less being used as a C&C server for people to organize their attacks, wouldn't you think about pulling their access entirely if you couldn't stem the flow of site-policy-violating content? They're essentially using Facebook to commit murder and the Myanmar government is all for it. You can't stop the killing in Myanmar but you can stop them using YOUR WEBSITE to help them do it. Does that put things in perspective for you a little better, or at least give you a better idea where I'm coming from?

    8. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Listen, buddy:

      Listen yourself. I am not your "buddy", and the arrogant and insulting tone of your use of that term is not acceptable.

      if your Very Large Social Media Website was being used to not only promote violence against an ethnic group, but more or less being used as a C&C server for people to organize their attacks, wouldn't you think about pulling their access entirely if you couldn't stem the flow of site-policy-violating content?

      Of course I would. And if that content was in a language that I was not able to read myself and had limited resources in my employ that could, I'd put in place a system where the people WHO CAN read it could report problems so I'd know what to look at for removal. JUST LIKE FACEBOOK ALREADY DID.

      Read that again: Facebook already has a system in place that people were not using.

      But I didn't reply to any statement that Facebook should disable accounts, I replied to one that talked about Facebook being serious about prohibiting "violent or dehumanizing" attacks. Did you read what I quoted AT ALL? Did you consider what you wrote AT ALL?

      You can't stop the killing in Myanmar but you can stop them using YOUR WEBSITE to help them do it.

      So you read my statement that they can stop people from using their system to spread their speech and didn't realize that it meant they could stop the people making the threats from using their website to spread their speech? Here, see for yourself:

      All they can do is remove speech from their forums.

      Hint: how can they stop people from using their system to promote hate acts? Clue: removing the material that calls for such acts from the forums.

      or at least give you a better idea where I'm coming from?

      I've read quite a few of your postings here, and this one in particular. I know where you are "coming from". You called Facebook out for not being serious about prohibiting attacks when there is nothing they can do to prohibit them. I called out the people who are crying about the hate speech but failing to help Facebook remove it by reporting it. Do you get a better idea where I'm "coming from"?

    9. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen, buddy: if your Very Large Social Media Website was being used to not only promote violence against an ethnic group, but more or less being used as a C&C server for people to organize their attacks, wouldn't you think about pulling their access entirely if you couldn't stem the flow of site-policy-violating content? They're essentially using Facebook to commit murder and the Myanmar government is all for it. You can't stop the killing in Myanmar but you can stop them using YOUR WEBSITE to help them do it. Does that put things in perspective for you a little better, or at least give you a better idea where I'm coming from?

      Trump should make a Department of Speech and appoint a "czar" to head it up and use the department to help stomp out "hate speech" on the internet. The US basically owns the internet anyway, so has the global responsibility to clean it up. Aside from the obvious account restrictions, perhaps 24 hour time outs off the local network, but in extreme cases there could be drone strikes on the haters to clean things out.

      Make the internet great again!

      *note: all of the above was sarcasm. You fucking retards are yelling and screaming that you should have your right to speech taken away by some arbitrary power. Which, of course, it will route around. But not before someday, somebody comes to stifle _you_.

    10. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Listen yourself. I am not your "buddy", and the arrogant and insulting tone of your use of that term is not acceptable.

      Tough. Welcome to the Internet, buddy. You think you can waggle your virtual finger at me and have any effect at all? Think again. Hell, I doubt you could do that in person and have any effect except to get laughed at by me.

    11. Re:Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Tough. Welcome to the Internet, buddy. You think you can waggle your virtual finger at me and have any effect at all?

      I pointed out your rude form of address; what you do with that information is up to you. And no, I've read enough of your stuff to know that you simply don't care about being civil, so I expected a rude and arrogant response.

      I also expected you to use that one side issue to glibly ignore the point I was making about your "virtual finger waggling" at Facebook. You did not disappoint.

    12. Re: Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They only care if you arenâ(TM)t white fyi

    13. Re: Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      And - you don't associate pomo with socialism? Really?

      If a skeptical system (their is no truth, nor reason, no logic) all skews in one direction then ... what are to think about it?

      A truly skeptical system would have some promoting, feudalism, some promoting monarchy, some promoting a meritocracy, some capitalism, some ... but that's not we see. We see close to a 100% association with socialism,

      Now, that is strange. Millions of people all generally selecting one option ... and all of them deny the validity of reason and logic.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    14. Re: Simple solution: Pull Facebook out of Myanmar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here here, actual intelligent comments. Hello Facebook? Hire an external company, hate crimes, idiotic time wasting, sleep u get the carpet response. Disgraceful, if you're serious (it seems you're playing total hypocrite), do, do something. Pathetic should be zero tilerance. Oh but you've money, oh, my bad...

  2. Shocking news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More than 1,000 anti whoever posts on Facebook in some shithole country!

  3. It's like they don't care that they don't care. by mmmVenison · · Score: 1

    This is mainly done through a secretive operation in Kuala Lumpur that’s outsourced to Accenture, the professional services firm, and codenamed “Project Honey Badger.”

    We all know Honey Badger don't give a shit.

    --
    Offended? Find a safe space and cry yourself to sleep.
  4. If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook?

    1. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Hate speech vs free speech is like porn vs art you know the the difference when you see it. That doesn't make a good computer algorithm. Routers has people looking at this and they can make the judgement call. While an algorithm still doesn't quite figure out the difference.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook?

      The number of Burmese-speaking Reuters employees (that the Myanmar government hasn't arrested yet) is greater than the number of Burmese-speaking Facebook employees? Hence why Facebook is hiring an outside firm.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Random sampling is different from exhaustive search. It is one thing for someone to find an example. It is quite another for someone to remove *every* example such that the first person can not find one.

    4. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off you spamming piece of shit.

    5. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hate speech vs free speech ...

      *facepalm*

      Censored Speech vs Free Speech ...

      FTFY.

      There is NO such thing as "hate speech". As soon as you start censoring contrary opinion based on artificial labels you no longer have free speech -- you have censored speech which is one step removed from fascism. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away!

      As George Carlin summarized:

      Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners" -- George Carlin

      Jordan Peterson points out the same thing -- Facebook censoring SOME speech and not others is a very bad idea.

      "@0:29 Now they have decided that they are ethically responsible for the content on their platforms. So good luck with that decision. Because they have an awful lot of content and drawing the lines is going to be extraordinary difficult thing to do.
      @0:45 Basically, the way these companies were setup up to begin with is that people could post content and then other people could watch it, and basically decide by their viewing, they could value the content by their proclivity to view.
      And now they have decided as a consequence of this decision that they are going to be in the business of arbitrarily determining what should and shouldn't be presented for public viewing and they'll never run out of decisions to make."

      Liberals wanting "tolerance" have swung so far around that they have now become conservatives -- intolerant of anything they disagree with.

      As Francois-Marie Arouet famously said:

      I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

      Without the ability to communicate about a subject there is no opportunity to learn about it.

      Without an opportunity to comment and criticize there is no growth.

      Why is this an issue? Because censorship is a slippery slope.

      As Martin Niemoller famously said:

      First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Socialist.

      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

      History has shown this time and time again.

      Paraphrasing another YouTuber who summarized philosopher John Stuart Mill:

      If we censor hate speech our fundamental beliefs of what is right and wrong are not tested.

      If our beliefs are aren't argued against then we don't attempt to rationalize what we believe to be true.

      We don't think about why our beliefs are right.

      When we don't question our beliefs we don't think about them.

      And when we don't think about our beliefs we don't learn new things. We don't advance and improve our thoughts about what is right and wrong.

      He argued that even if someone's argument is wrong it still serves a purpose of making us rationalize and check our beliefs and even improve them.

      Being able to listen to an argument that is wrong lets us understand what makes an argument wrong and improve our own beliefs from learning from someone else's failure.

      People have forgotten:

      What you resists, persists

      The truth is:

      Only children censor.
      Adults communicate and even laugh at taboo subjects.

      Censorship is NOT the solution -- it is precisely the problem.

    6. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook?

      The number of Burmese-speaking Reuters employees (that the Myanmar government hasn't arrested yet) is greater than the number of Burmese-speaking Facebook employees? Hence why Facebook is hiring an outside firm.

      Obviously, the answer is to require all hate speech be written in English so that Facebook moderators can identify it as hate speech. ;)

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    7. Re: If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi chris, back so soon?

    8. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hate speech vs free speech is like porn vs art ...

      The former is a subset of the later, and anyone who tells you otherwise is not actually in favor of free expression regardless of what they say or think.

    9. Re: If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah ok dick for brains, calling for murder and inciting violence aren't protected speech even if the word "hate" triggers you

    10. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that free speech can be hate speech as well, with the perpetrators prosecuted after the speech has been delivered? Not everybody in this world is as peaceful, orderly and non-violent as the US population at large. Healthy tolerance of insults, incitement to violence against groups of people and threats of violence against individuals without acting on it requires high level of law and order, education on common values and wide worldview, and strong community "spirit" so that the population don't have to succumb to their animal instincts.

      Sorry to be so patronizing to the under-educated, "innocent children" of this world. Maybe it's the new White Man's guilt?

    11. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hate speech vs free speech ...

      *facepalm*

      Censored Speech vs Free Speech ...

      FTFY.

      There is NO such thing as "hate speech". As soon as you start censoring contrary opinion based on artificial labels you no longer have free speech -- you have censored speech which is one step removed from fascism. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away!

      As George Carlin summarized:

      Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners" -- George Carlin

      Jordan Peterson points out the same thing -- Facebook censoring SOME speech and not others is a very bad idea.

      "@0:29 Now they have decided that they are ethically responsible for the content on their platforms. So good luck with that decision. Because they have an awful lot of content and drawing the lines is going to be extraordinary difficult thing to do.
      @0:45 Basically, the way these companies were setup up to begin with is that people could post content and then other people could watch it, and basically decide by their viewing, they could value the content by their proclivity to view.
      And now they have decided as a consequence of this decision that they are going to be in the business of arbitrarily determining what should and shouldn't be presented for public viewing and they'll never run out of decisions to make."

      Liberals wanting "tolerance" have swung so far around that they have now become conservatives -- intolerant of anything they disagree with.

      As Francois-Marie Arouet famously said:

      I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

      Without the ability to communicate about a subject there is no opportunity to learn about it.

      Without an opportunity to comment and criticize there is no growth.

      Why is this an issue? Because censorship is a slippery slope.

      As Martin Niemoller famously said:

      First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Socialist.

      Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

      History has shown this time and time again.

      Paraphrasing another YouTuber who summarized philosopher John Stuart Mill:

      If we censor hate speech our fundamental beliefs of what is right and wrong are not tested.

      If our beliefs are aren't argued against then we don't attempt to rationalize what we believe to be true.

      We don't think about why our beliefs are right.

      When we don't question our beliefs we don't think about them.

      And when we don't think about our beliefs we don't learn new things. We don't advance and improve our thoughts about what is right and wrong.

      He argued that even if someone's argument is wrong it still serves a purpose of making us rationalize and check our beliefs and even improve them.

      Being able to listen to an argument that is wrong lets us understand what makes an argument wrong and improve our own beliefs from learning from someone else's failure.

      People have forgotten:

      What you resists, persists

      The truth is:

      Only children censor.
      Adults communicate and even laugh at taboo subjects.

      Censorship is NOT the solution -- it is precisely the problem.

      Someone kill this piece of shit.

    12. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... it is precisely the problem.

      Yeah, telling people there's a child sex-slavery operation in the basement of a Pizzeria isn't the problem. Telling people the next foreigner you see will kidnap your children, isn't the problem.

      Yes it is, it's terrorism by poison pen: But Facebook allows 'free speech' as long as it doesn't contain pictures of naked females. The serious journalism show, 'Four corners' (made in Australia) recently did an article demanding that Facebook censor images of children being tortured. Now, I'm loathe to censor something just because it violates human rights but it's ridiculous to allow demands to murder a person and disallow naked breasts. To be fair, the guilty party here is the US government, which is fighting pedophilia and sex-slavery (and prostitution) but not fighting fake news. It doesn't take much viewing of American television to realize there's a lot of money in fake news, starting with Fox News.

      Adults communicate and even laugh ...

      If that happened, fake news wouldn't be re-posted and re-tweeted on the scale it is. It's also spread by main-stream news services.

    13. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by mrwireless · · Score: 1

      I believe you conflate unpopular opinion and hate speech.

      Have a look at the Paradox of Tolerance.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Free speech is not linear ( the more the better), it follows a bell curve. You can have too little (chilling effects, censorship), but you can also have too much (hate). Tolerating unconstructive hate speech limits how inclusive your public sphere can be.

      What you describe sounds like impopular opinion, which sits in between those extremes, and should indeed be protected.

    14. Re: If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We know itâ(TM)s true. Glaze over it if you want. We are watching a lot more closely than you might think. ;)

    15. Re: If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true fascist.

      What you meant to say was âoespeech I like is okâ and âoespeech I donâ(TM)t like is badâ.

    16. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only Left wingers censor. Only Jews censor. Just look at who is being put in prison for saying things that Jews and Left wingers don't like. How many people are in prison right now for questioning the 'Holocaust' story (and proving it is all a lie).

    17. Re: If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by pezezin · · Score: 1

      Spoken like someone who doesn't know what fascism is.

    18. Re:If Reuters can find it, why can't Facebook? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Hate Speech is still free speech, There is no constitutional or moral distinction.

      Courts have struggled to find what cannot be permissible and it boils down to:

      1. Directly inciting violence. "Kill now."
      2. Deliberately causing a panic. Example: Falsely crying fire.
      3. And, it was, for a long while, extended to pornography.

      Hate speech means what? Saying that supporters of capitalism and the free market are fascist and therefore should be ostracized and beaten. I think ANTIFA are, at best, ignorant fools and at worst evil fuks alongside the Maoist Cultural Revolutionaries and the Khmer Rouge fanatics. *I* think they're hateful. Should ANTIFA be deplatformed? No?

      One cannot eliminate "hate speech" and still have free speech.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  5. Facebook is struggling to do the right thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because they are the wrong way. Suckerburger is a commi CIA shill and it's his job is to bring about division the world over, not just America.

    1. Re:Facebook is struggling to do the right thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go suck Alex Jones' dick, fucking conspiracy theorist moron.

    2. Re: Facebook is struggling to do the right thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This comment sounds like hate speech to me. When do we get to ban you?

  6. There is no such thing as hate speech. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only thing which can be criminal is action.

    That is a fundamental requirement of a Free Society.

    1. Re:There is no such thing as hate speech. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      While not hate speech per se, speech can have a clear threat of action and inherent chilling effect based on specificity.

      "I hate all gays" is fine, it is a bad opinion but whatever.
      "All gays can die in a fire, and I would be the first to light a match" is shitty to say but cool legally, because it isn't specific.
      "Let's all go to Washington DC and hang gays in front of the White House on the first of the month" is clearly a threat.
      "I hope their are no gays in my neighborhood *picture of a shotgun*" is clearly a threat as well.

      There needs to be better definitions in certain cases though. Calling someone gay when in the middle of a fight? Probably not hate speech, though many lawyers would go that route. Saying "this is what happens to gay people" when beating someone up probably is.

    2. Re: There is no such thing as hate speech. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking is an action. Nice try

  7. Humans are still tribal savages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'd think things like that only happen in shithole countries like Myanmar, but look everywhere around you. It happens everyday, just to a lesser scale.

    Human beings are still genetically programmed to be the barbarians they were ten thousand years ago. Xenophobia, tribalism, mysoginy, the desire for revenge instead of justice, are all ingraned into every single cell in our bodies. That's why civilization, and the principles it is built on, is so damn hard to implement and maintain. It's because even though almost every remotly well educated and knowledgeable human being agrees that it's a better way of life that the incessant conflicts, confrontations, bloodshed, genocides and war of the past, almost every instinct, impulse, emotion, and gut reaction in our bodies tells us otherwise.

    1. Re:Humans are still tribal savages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah sure thing buddy let's all just give up and give in to our caveman instincts and FUCK CIVILIZATION, it was a bad idea anyway.
      ..or maybe, just maybe, we can encourage actual civilized, intelligent behavior, and discourage the sort of bullshit going on in Myanmar and other places on the planet. Crazy talk, I know, but I'm just wired that way I guess.

    2. Re:Humans are still tribal savages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which, if you read my post correctly, is exactly what I was saying.

      I was simply pointing out that implementing civilization and spreading it across the globe is really, really hard and will likely remain so for a long long time.

  8. +1 by gDLL · · Score: 1

    true.

    Either speech is free, or it's not.

  9. At least... by sheph · · Score: 1

    At least we got rid of Alex Jones though.

    --
    I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
  10. Muslims always claim they are the victims . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When actually, the Muslim are usually the aggressors.

    Leftist media will always side with the Muslims - because all white Christian males are pure evil - Just ask Sarah Jeong.

    “Moderate” Indonesia: Woman who complained about noise from a mosque’s loudspeakers charged with blasphemy, faces prison sentence. 14 Buddhist temples ransacked and burned in retaliation. It’s lucky Islam is so peaceful. Imagine the carnage if it wasn’t.

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/indonesia-woman-irked-mosque-noise-073024215.html

    1. Re:Muslims always claim they are the victims . . . by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Precisely! The same people who are willing to believe Christians or Jews in the West - be it America, Europe or Israel - are somehow willing to believe that the Muslims are the victims in places like ex-Yugoslavia (Bosnia & Kosovo), Burma and India.

      On Twitter, Burmese posters have posted pictures of Burmese citizens - both Buddhist and Hindu, not Muslim - who had been beheaded by Muslim rebels in Rankhine. Nobody in the West bothers about that. They're only interested in the Muslim propaganda about Burma from Pakistan, Bangladesh and other international Islamic ambulance chasers

  11. Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...about hate speech by Muslim groups in the Middle East and ethnic cleansing against Christians.

    Why is that?

    1. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      ...about hate speech by Muslim groups in the Middle East and ethnic cleansing against Christians.

      Why is that?

      Probably because Muslims are more often the victim than the perpetrator. There's a lot of countries in Africa too where xians are performing ethnic cleansing on Muslim populations. Of course, that doesn't go along with the mindset some people have of "xian good" "Muslim bad".

      Xianity has a long history of ethnic cleansing, slavery and persecution of others. That doesn't make Christians or Christianity necessarily bad... it just means there are bad people of all religions.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your whataboutism attempt is shitty, shitstain

    3. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by harrkev · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably because Muslims are more often the victim than the perpetrator. There's a lot of countries in Africa too where xians are performing ethnic cleansing on Muslim populations.

      You might want to research. The west practices tolerance, but in areas that are majority Muslim, not so much.

      Here, you can find a list of countries that allow the DEATH PENALTY for apostasy and blasphemy. You will never guess the dominant religion for most of them... http://www.pewresearch.org/fac...

      Well, "blasphemy" laws can be applied to pretty much anybody that you disagree with. In Pakistan, a Christian woman was pretty much railroaded and sentenced to death, despite the lack of any actual evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      One telling quote (from the article):

      In December 2010, a month after Noreen's conviction, a Muslim cleric announced a 500,000 Pakistani rupee award (the equivalent of $10,000)[7] to anyone who would kill her. One survey reported that around 10 million Pakistanis had said that they would be willing to personally kill her out of either religious conviction or for the reward.

      Also, even if you DON'T actually commit blasphemy, here is a list of 13 countries where begin an Atheist can get you killed. You get three guesses about the dominant religion for 12 of these countries (the 13th country, Nigeria, is evenly divided between Christian and Islam). Yes, being the wrong religion (or lack thereof) is LEGAL grounds for execution. https://www.theatlantic.com/in...

      Another page with a similar map: https://www.indy100.com/articl...

      But as to who is the VICTIM of persecution, I will leave this article (cliff notes: Christians). The source data appears to be Pew (who is generally regarded as unbiased), but you can analyze the data for skew yourself.

      https://www.express.co.uk/news...

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    4. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by reanjr · · Score: 0

      And in the United States, police can execute you without a trial just for being black. For perspective, there are more black men executed by American police than there are atheists being executed in Muslim countries.

    5. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 0

      Express is hardly biased; it's well known as a right wing newspaper based in a country where right wing usually means Xian.

      In the last 100 years- Muslims have faced widespread persecution from Christians (and others- but mostly Christians) in:

      Greece, Russia, Armenia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Parts of Turkey and Albania, Cambodia, China, India, Algeria, Japan, Libya (from Italians), Lebanon, Myanmar, Philippines, Kazackhstan, Tartarstan, Vietnam, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Azerbaijan, Eastern Turkestan, Tibet, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, ALL OVER AFRICA, but especially in Nigeria and the Central African Republic.

      So yeah, Muslims have gone after other people- but they've been targeted a whole lot themselves. Let's not forget that Christianity (or people claiming to represent xianity) is responsible for wiping out the majority of the native population in North and South America, and Australia. Half of all the inhabited continents.

      Xians have persecuted way more people than they have been the victim of persecution over time. Again, I'm not saying Xianity is bad- it's just not on the right side of history in many cases.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    6. Re: Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation needed.

    7. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's what you believe you should be shot.

    8. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by harrkev · · Score: 1

      And in the United States, police can execute you without a trial just for being black.

      And am I supposed to just believe some stranger on the Intertubes? Sorry, but I need a bit more proof.

      But, to actually address your claim, false. We have LAWS. The "execution" of an unarmed person is completely illegal if they are not attacking anybody. While it is true that some people may have gotten away with this, the increasing use of cameras worn by police officers should be reducing this type of activity. If a truly non-threatening person is shot (of any color) then the citizens have a right to demand criminal prosecution against the officer in question.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    9. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by harrkev · · Score: 1

      I must admit that I know nothing about "The Express." However, I did a little "Google" magic and found this...

      http://www.pewresearch.org/fac...

      Please don't try to tell me that Pew is "right wing."

      However, this IS a thorny issue. "Persecution" has many levels, from simple name-calling all the way to death. So a person who is shunned for their religion is not the same as a person killed for their religion. As I mentioned in the grandparent post, Islam is most likely to kill you for religious violations. Unfortunately, hard, unbiased numbers for actual death an imprisonment for religious reasons is hard to find.

      But from the pew article that I linked above, it says:

      Among the 25 most populous countries in the world, Egypt, Russia, India, Indonesia and Turkey had the highest overall levels of religious restrictions.

      I should like to point out that of these five worst countries, three are Islamic. None have a Christian majority.

      Another example of religious "tolerance" is where the movie "Wonder Woman" was banned in Lebanon -- simply because the lead actress is Israeli... https://www.aljazeera.com/news...

      But, in all fairness to Islam, some countries are becoming more tolerant. Saudi Arabia just started allowing women to vote in the past few years. Let's all welcome Saudi Arabia to the 20th century. https://www.bbc.com/news/world...

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    10. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck, you lying sacks of shit are so full of yourselves with the moral equivalency. Find me a black guy shot by police who was NOT in the middle of committing crimes, you useless nitwit. Then after you have that, go inspect the numbers of black people shooting themselves and everybody else. Since you're a fucking moron, I'll do the math for you and inform you that the second number is orders of magnitude higher. Go fucking hold your ape buddies responsible for ANYTHING and maybe we'll care.

    11. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You all seem to be saying the same thing - basically, the problem is RELIGION.

      Let's just kill all the non-atheists.

      No more religion problems.

      That should actually solve quite a lot of the violence in the world.

    12. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "can execute you without a trial" - I don't think you're using that phrase correctly. Maybe it works like this:

      Come into my house and attack my wife or kid and I will personally "execute you without a trial".

      Don't forget, there are also police being executed without a trial by citizens (and non-citizens) in the US as well. There is such a thing as "self-defense", you cannot simply ignore it for your own political whims without showing your absolute and thoughtless bias.

    13. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      The Express is right wing in the same way that half the country is right wing: in favour of good fiscal management and kind of likes British values.

      In the last 100 years christians have faced persecution in Russia, Aermenia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Alabania, Algeria, Libya, Lebanon and all over Africa too. Maybe the issue is the political systems in those countries during that period?

      Perhaps all religions are shitty and people should stop believing in invisible pink unicorns.

      But what is a xian? Is that pronounced zeeanne?

    14. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Religions are neither good nor bad in my opinion. They are religions.

      People use their religions for good reasons or bad reasons. Doesn't matter the religion, there is good and bad in both. People are evil and people are good. Religions are just beliefs, and most are ambiguous enough to be applied to either side of many arguments.

      "X" is an abbreviation widely used for over a thousand years as a shorthand for the word "Christ"- first use was by Christian monks who presumably got tired of writing out the full word. Most commonly you see it as part of an abbreviation of "Christmas" to "Xmas" but often for Christian "Xian" or "Christianity" "Xianity" too.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    15. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      > And in the United States, police can execute you without a trial just for being black.

      Are you lying or just amazingly ignorant?

      Blacks kill other blacks *far* more than police kill blacks. When police kill blacks, it's usually justified, if it's not justified, the police are prosecuted.

    16. Re:Funny how we never get Slashdot stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel has committed war crimes against the lebanese, occupies part of lebanon and still has to pay reparation. Further Israel occupies palestinians and commits constantly war crimes against the indigenous population such as collective punishment. Recently they became officially an apartheid state based on religious grouping by declaring only those of jewish fate have rights, also they declared anyone relatives to any hamas member cannot receive emergency medical aid outside of the concentration camp called "gaza strip" that is under a blockade for over a decade now and will be uninhabitable by 2020. The 20th century german war crimes in St. Petersburgh repeated in Gaza Strip by Israelis in the 21th century.

      Boycotting a zionist and israel hasbara agent is pretty benign comparing to what "wonder woman" supports and represents.

  12. First: by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Define "hate speech".

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:First: by Koreantoast · · Score: 1
      From the article:

      “Cut off those necks of the sons of the dog and kick them into the water”... One Buddhist nationalist group set up a page called the “Kalar Beheading Gang.”

      A third user shared a blog item that pictures a boatload of Rohingya refugees landing in Indonesia. “Pour fuel and set fire so that they can meet Allah faster,” a commenter wrote.

      One user posted a restaurant advertisement featuring Rohingya-style food. “We must fight them the way Hitler did the Jews, damn kalars!” the person wrote, using a pejorative for the Rohingya.

      Direct calls for beheading people, immolating refugees of a particular race, and genocide against a specific people group would be considered hate speech and incitement by most people. We're not simply talking about expelling them, people are calling for the outright deaths of an entire people group within their borders.

    2. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the rub. Some overly sensitive people equate hate speech with "something I didn't like".

    3. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Direct calls for beheading people, immolating refugees of a particular race, and genocide against a specific people group would be considered hate speech and incitement by most people.

      Violent threats are criminal acts. Instead of complaining about "hate speech", it would be much simpler if you complained about "violent theats". Hate speech is not well-defined, but violent threats are.

    4. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, the problem with crying "hate speech" all the time is that when hate speech really appears, nobody is going to believe you. I disbelieve, by default, all breathless claims about rampant "hate speech" somewhere.

    5. Re:First: by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Damn; well said.

      If this keeps up, we may even have to take you off "broken clock" status...

    6. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you believe we are crying "hate speech" all the time ? Alex Jones ?

    7. Re: First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show me in the past week where we had an article on slashdot and were crying about hate speech. Shit, show me in the past month where it's happend.

      Hint: it's not as rampant as you would like to believe.

    8. Re:First: by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So everyone that has called for the assassination of President Trump has committed hate speech? Someone should warn PopeRatzo around here that his statements about punching and beating Nazis is hate speech.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    9. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definition: "Hate Speech" - Speech that I personally disagree with.

    10. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are not examples of "Hate Speech", these are examples of "Death Threats" which are already illegal.

    11. Re: First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is intentionally ironic, right?

      It parses as, basically:

        "What make you think we're all the time crying over hate speech Alex Jones?"

    12. Re: First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The daily event of Twitter and Facebook and universities and Patreon and Vimeo and YouTube banning conservatives is not permitted to pass into the filter bubble you have chosen to inhabit.

      That doesnlt even include the fascist laws cities and nations have passed. Fail to call someone by theright one of 32 prnons defined by NYC and be fined a quarter of a millikn dollars. In Toronto you go to jail. In the UK they throw you in jail for saying anything against immigration as they do generally all over the EU.

      In Sweden they throw you in jail for rape on there mere say so of any female, which puts a new twist on the idea of "hate speech".

      As Dinesh D'Sousa has pointed out, state fascism , including Nazism, Communism, Socialism and Post Modernism was and is a left wing phenomena through and through.

    13. Re: First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a serious threat. The person is not in imminent danger. CNN wants to "wring Sara Huckabee's neck". It's not a threat. Of course, it proves CNN is basically run by cokeheads at this point, but itls not a threat.

    14. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ....noticing that certain races don't do very well on standardized test and/or commit unusually high amounts of crimes.... ...saying anything that Liberals don't like.... ...not voting for Hillary....

    15. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as "hate" speech, but nice try at trying to equate calling for the deaths of people, to asking for an end to immigration, or pointing out that transgender people are mentally ill, etc.

      The denial of free speech is the first act of tyranny.

      There are no "refugees", they are all invaders.

    16. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, basically like BLM?

    17. Re:First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Define "hate speech".

      In this case it's people saying "kill the muslims" as opposed to Islam where it's "Slay infidels wherever you find them". If social media platforms want to remove "hate speech", they'll need to purge Islam entirely.

    18. Re: First: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fascism and Nazism were left wing phenomena? You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

  13. Any is exploitable, even free speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you create a platform for speech, and involve billions of people, you should not be surprised when the racists, bigots, hate mongers and others find their way on to it, its a platform after all, an avenue for any kind of speech.

    Civility and society dictates we act against those who infringe against our ethics and morals. So we have a conundrum, we know the people who infringe our ethics and morals, will facebook and others have the fortitude to act in the interest of our morals and ethics? So far they have not.

  14. Alright then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell me where you live. I'll then show up in the street, in front of your house, every morning. When you daughter comes out to go to school, I'll follow her there, telling her all the way that she's ugly, stupid, worthless, nobody loves her, her daddy hates her and her mother is a whore. And I'll wait for her after school, follow her home, and do the same thing. Over and over again, every single day, for days, weeks, months.

    I'll never touch her, never get closer to her than a few meters, never constitute any physical threat to her. I'll never set foot on private property, yours or anyone else's, never set foot on school grounds, always remain on the street and other public places.

    According to your own principles, I will never do anything wrong; I'll simply be exercising my free speech rights.

    Words can hurt. They've caused bloodshed, genocide, and war throughout history. They can drive a young girl to commit suicide, or and enraged desparate father to commit murder.

    And I'm really, really tired of little worthless high-horse riding, high-on-principles, keyboard warriors like you who have absolutely no idea how the real world works.

    1. Re:Alright then... by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1

      In the "real world," you probably would not survive longer than a day or two, regardless of the content of your speech, because you would be stalking and abusing a school-aged girl, which would not be looked upon kindly by any parent. Stop trying to make an anti-free-speech argument with such a stupid example.

      Words are not equal to violence; and abhorrent *behavior* should not be tolerated in civilized society. This applies to your comment, the larger context of the article, and comments in this thread of people who are way more concerned with hurting feelings than actual events in the world.

    2. Re: Alright then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feelings are actual events in the world, and you admit that yourself when you say the behavior which the initial post declared was "free speech" and not at all sanctionable.

      Hence the reason for the preposterous example, which means you are proving the point.

      Meanwhile, of course, we have a Phoenix man under arrest for murdering another for no reason other than his own misguided rage.

      Good show.

    3. Re:Alright then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the "real world," you probably would not survive longer than a day or two, regardless of the content of your speech, because you would be stalking and abusing a school-aged girl, which would not be looked upon kindly by any parent. Stop trying to make an anti-free-speech argument with such a stupid example

      woooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh

      This one went completely over your head, didn't it ?

      Yes, I probably wouldn't last very long, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make !. Didn't you get that ?

      You speak like a delusional idealist who's never been out of his mother's basement. I wonder if you'd feel the same if someone on facebook called for your murder or the extermination of your entire family.

      People like you fight for "principles". The rest of us are simply trying to save lives. Maybe some day you'll grow the f..k up and get it.

  15. Why not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...mention the Rohingya massacre of Hindus in Myanmar? The dhimmitude is disgusting.

  16. You're wrong - both legally and morally by rsborg · · Score: 1

    The only thing which can be criminal is action.

    That is a fundamental requirement of a Free Society.

    Of course you realize that almost every nation has laws against certain types of speech. A great example is threats of violence - that's considered illegal in almost any jurisdiction.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  17. What bugs me the most . . . by sgt_doom · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not that I am unsympathetic to the slaughter of muslims in Myanmar and the destruction of their homes their, but there has been a lengthy genocide against the (mostly Christian) Kachin people in that country, and there is little reporting about it, most definitely NOT in Amerika.

    https://www.theguardian.com/wo...

  18. Media difference. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Christians: conservatives liberals hate

    Muslims: conservatives liberals love

  19. Facebook can do it... by DogDude · · Score: 2

    ... they just can't do it profitably. If they had to pay people with brains to scour their network to keep it shit-free, they wouldn't be profitable. They can only be wildly profitable by not actively managing their network.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  20. Action, or who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Action is all that matters. Why don't you get that?

    1. Re:Action, or who cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the ACT of yelling "fire" in a theater, or the ACT of using speech to issue clear and specific threats? I agree.

    2. Re:Action, or who cares. by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      I bet you change your tune when someone calls for your murder.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  21. There is no such thing as hate speech. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only speech, and it is free, all of it.

  22. The Rohingya are Islamic terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Rohingya are Islamic terrorists aligned with extremeist mullahs who have issued fatwahs calling for the death and extermination of all Buddhists and the destruction of Myanmar. Buddhists are historically a chill peaceful religion content on living in harmony with others. In order to piss off the Buddhists of Myanmar, you really, really, have to be extreme evil assholes. That is what the Rohingya are. Extremist mullahs in Bangladesh are financing Rohingya terrorism and radicalized activiities. The goal of the Rohingya is to take over Myanmar and merge it with Bangladesh.

    Just the usual violent muslim bullshit to which we are unfortunately becoming numb.

  23. Re: Muslims always claim they are the victims . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rohingya are a stateless ethnic minority with darker skin on top of being mostly Muslim, so even if we accept your ridiculous nazi narrative it would still be pretty obvious they're the ones being victimized here.

  24. Speech MUST be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hateful words included. You idiots are 100% a part of the problem.

  25. hate speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hate speech is not a thing.

    It's a made up concept used to justify the silencing of dissent.

    Reporting from reality...back to you, Jim.

  26. Look up origin of that "fire in the theatre" crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was from a junk opinion in the supreme court, and the Justice who wrote it later came to the conclusion that he was wrong.

  27. That's not hate speech,it's terrorist threatening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The difference is "hate speech" is undefined, and as being used right now means any opinion we disagree with.

    Terrorist threatening is defined under the law, and has a real victim. All such things are already illegal, and like parasites, some are trying to latch onto existing, long standing legal concepts to define their own fuzzy wording to outlaw any else speaking that they don't like. Only third world dictatorships and shitholes act that way.

  28. Re: Muslims always claim they are the victims . . by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Actually, no! They are Bangladeshi Muslims who live in Burma, but want to run an insurrection against the Burmese government. Which is why not just the ex junta, but even Ahn San Su Ki has resisted international attempts to condemn them. Ahn San could have gone along w/ the Islamic propaganda if she wanted, but she didn't, b'cos she saw what Muslims were doing to her country

  29. What is "hate" speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, you mean the TRUTH.
    You know nothing about what really happened in Myanmar. Muslims (as usual) invaded in huge numbers, committed atrocities against the indigenous people, and then complain when they are finally thrown out of the country.

  30. Re: Muslims always claim they are the victims . . by Cederic · · Score: 1

    The correct response to people unhappy with your government is not to kill them all.

    Condemning genocide is just fine by me.

  31. They are not wrong.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Islam is the most well known violent religion. The people probably didn't hate Muslims when arrived in the country, so I would conclude the Muslims did something to incite the anger of the locals.

    Islam is evil and the second crusade is coming. Just a matter of when.