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How Amazon, One of the Richest Companies in the World, Secretly Offloads Its Electricity Costs To Local Taxpayers Who Live Near Its Data Centers (bloomberg.com)

Several readers have shared this Bloomberg report: Amazon Web Services, the company's cloud computing business, is its fastest-growing and most profitable division, but it comes with a lot of upfront infrastructure costs and ongoing expenses, the biggest of which is electricity. Over the past two years, Amazon has almost doubled the size of its physical footprint worldwide, to 254 million square feet, including dozens of new data centers with vast fields of servers running 24/7. In at least two states, it's also negotiated with utilities and politicians to stick other people with the bills, piling untold millions of dollars on top of the estimated $1.2 billion in state and municipal tax incentives the company has received over the past decade.

Other companies, including Google and Tesla, have taken advantage of the power industry's hunger for growth and the relative secrecy that followed its 1990s deregulation in dozens of states. But Amazon stands out for its success in offloading its power costs and also because it dominates America's cloud business, which has gone from nonexistent to using 2 percent of U.S. electricity in about a decade. "Amazon had a huge advantage, because there weren't a lot of other sectors growing in the electricity market," says Neal Elliott, senior director of research at the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE), a green lobbying group. The company has also ratcheted up the secrecy around who's paying for electricity, says environmental advocate Greenpeace, which calls Amazon the single biggest obstacle to industry transparency.

42 of 173 comments (clear)

  1. SO that's what that is! by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wondered what that huge-ass extension cord going from the side of my house towards the general direction of the Amazon data center was for!

    That and the $400k/month electric bills. I figured I just had the AC set kind of high.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:SO that's what that is! by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That editorial slant was really something.

      Can't blame Amazon for taking the incentives offered to them. Sounds like some communities may need to have some sharp discussions with their city councils. Of course, they may learn there was a big win in total tax revenue that prevented their taxes from rising. Or maybe the city council was full of idiots.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:SO that's what that is! by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      huge-ass extension cord

      Uh, that doesn't read well

    3. Re:SO that's what that is! by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      call me jaded, disgruntled, pessimistic, or just a crochety old guy; my angle on this was not so much Amazon 'taking incentives offered' but more greasing the palms of the 5-6 people that decided, for the entire city, to cut these deals and sack the residents to augment the funds. At this point I have little faith in any level of government doing things outside of all the tricks that are nothing more than loopholes to have 'legalized bribery'.

    4. Re:SO that's what that is! by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Generally speaking what happens is that the utility does a circuit extension to the property as “general facilities” rather than “customer facilities.” If the latter, the full bill goes to the owner, but common-use services theoretically benefit all users.

      The game is that a transmission line extension generally doesn’t provide a benefit for an established community, although at times it will help improve system resilience.

    5. Re:SO that's what that is! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of course, they may learn there was a big win in total tax revenue that prevented their taxes from rising.

      When these sorts of sweetheart deals have been analyzed, it's generally been found that the promised benefits to the local economy are much more anemic than hoped.

      But, yeah, it's not like Amazon is behaving any differently than any other company (or sports team, or ...).

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re:SO that's what that is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But I thought corruption was less likely and easier to address as government gets smaller! That's what a vocal portion of the population here seems to believe, in any case...

    7. Re: SO that's what that is! by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      RTFA. The data centers donâ(TM)t provide hardly shit for jobs. Itâ(TM)s one thing to bend over backwards when a factory opens up and youâ(TM)ve got 800 to 2000 new jobs. Itâ(TM)s entirely another when the same footprint shows up and you created 15 damn jobs

    8. Re:SO that's what that is! by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Data centers don't bring many jobs, except during construction. They might make it up on property tax, if they aren't giving away an indefinite exemption (and most places don't - they'll give a discount for a few years).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:SO that's what that is! by lgw · · Score: 2

      It's the fundamental problem of regulation in a nutshell. The company is merely doing what's expected - we look to the local government to keep its people's interests first. When they don't, it's not obvious what could fix that, given we're starting with a government we don't trust.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:SO that's what that is! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Can't blame Amazon for taking the incentives offered to them.

      Yep can't blame arseholes for being arseholes because they did it for money. That justifies everything!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re: SO that's what that is! by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

      And 14 of those jobs are minimum wage security jobs.

    12. Re: SO that's what that is! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
      And the 15th one is the manager of security make 50% more than the minimum wage, princely 11.50 an hour.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/ma... The 9.9% is the new bourgois, the 0.1% is the new aristocrats, the 90% is the proletariat.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    13. Re:SO that's what that is! by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      Interesting, but the whole community benefits from an improved power network - less downtime and probably cleaner power, leading to reduced electronic failure (I've had a projector die two times from logic board failures before I put it behind a power conditioner...)

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    14. Re:SO that's what that is! by DamnOregonian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's very true. I am the chief network engineer for 7 datacenters, and on the facilities side, we employ probably 5 people, depending on how you classify them.

    15. Re: SO that's what that is! by Jason1729 · · Score: 2

      But the kickbacks to the politicians making these decisions are they same for the factory or data centre. So the two type of facility are of identical benefit as far as they're concerned.

    16. Re: SO that's what that is! by lgw · · Score: 2

      Mom and Pop data centers?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  2. Benefits by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I say again. After tax breaks and all other leaching, does it really make sense for us to allure these huge companies to cities if there is no net benefit for the city?

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Benefits by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But they are job creators.
      JOB CREATORS.
      Governments will bend backwards so a big company goes into their town and make Jobs.

      The real winner is the town next to it. Where they have lower costs, and all the employees move there to live, and pay taxes to them.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Benefits by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I say again. After tax breaks and all other leaching, does it really make sense for us to allure these huge companies to cities if there is no net benefit for the city?

      Luring big corporations to cities with tax money only benefits a) the company and b) the politicians who took campaign donations to lure the company in the first place.

      And yes, that includes professional sports franchises. The benefits to an area are always overestimated. Every single time.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:Benefits by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Jobs may be the reason politicians claim they make such deals, but I suspect there are often kickbacks, connections, and/or some other wink-wink shenanigans that benefit just the politicians themselves. "Jobs", "protect the children", and/or "outsiders are coming to gitcha" are political gimmicks to justify all kinds of crap.

    4. Re: Benefits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Corporate socialism is the only socialism allowed in America!

    5. Re:Benefits by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps, or perhaps most of our "Leaders" are just really stupid.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Benefits by SirMasterboy · · Score: 2

      You move to a lower cost area which is just as nice as your area was before the prices skyrocketed.

    7. Re: Benefits by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would prefer to have none, thanks. But technically this would be closer to Fascism, where private businesses and government work hand in hand, without actual consideration of the people.

    8. Re:Benefits by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      Perhaps, or perhaps most of our "Leaders" are just really stupid.

      If that's the case, we really are a "representative democracy". The average person doesn't pay much attention to politics outside of headlines, and has a short memory for past screwups.

    9. Re:Benefits by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Everything is negotiable. Real estate commish IS negotiable, or you find another realtor.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:Benefits by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It would make an interesting experiment, simply have the corp that is claiming to be such a benefit to the community to pay their employees in $2 bills for a month and see at the end of the month how many $2 bills end up in the community.

      That is what the local AFB did in the 80s when there was some NIMBYs that wanted to shut it down, the town was so flooded with $2 bills that everyone had piles of 'em and everyone was more than happy to tell the NIMBYs to have a heaping cup of STFU.

      But it would be an easy way to tell one way or the other, if the town is crapflooded with $2 bills the money is circulating in the community, if almost nobody sees a $2 bill then the corp isn't doing squat for the local area.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    11. Re: Benefits by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      Real Estate prices are not standardized. See: selling a tiny 900 square foot home in Berkeley and moving to Indianapolis where you can buy a 3000 square foot home with the proceeds.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    12. Re:Benefits by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Or just have a better contract that includes things like performance metrics or service level agreements. This is common in many industries. Ie, database is contracted to have an uptime of 99.8% or such.

      A good contract might be that in order to get $X tax breaks and benefits and the company promises $Y increase in tax revenue (because of jobs, tourism, etc), then if the tax revenue is only $Z then the penalty should be $Y-$Z up to a maximum of $X. If the company is not confident enough to make this deal then don't trust them. This could apply to sports teams and arenas as well, not just predatory companies.

    13. Re:Benefits by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But never underestimate a good visual representation. Sure those kind of things might work, but nothing beats having every person in the area simply look in their pocket and count the number of bills and know where they came from.

      That is why it worked so well, the local stores were so crapflooded with $2 bills that if you bought $10 worth of stuff at a store with a $20 they would often give you five $2s simply because they ran out of other bills and just had mounds of $2s so everybody ended up with just piles of $2 bills and that meant every.single.person. in the area simply could look in their own pocket and see many $2 bills and they knew those meant an airman had spent money locally and passed hands to end up in your pocket. My local PC shop didn't even have any USAF customers and they were handing out $2 bills for weeks simply because so many people were paying their bills with them thanks to constantly getting them for change.

      Remember Joe and Jane Average might not understand performance metrics (and frankly they are easy enough to "massage" hence why the old saying "lies, damn lies and statistics") but its damned hard to deny the impact of a company when you look in your pocket and see piles of bills you know without a shadow of a doubt came from them.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    14. Re:Benefits by pnutjam · · Score: 2

      Exactly! In case you are serious, Bentonville is where Walmart's HQ is located.

  3. Tesla by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't lump in Tesla with Google and Amazon. Tesla is a green company and has a mission to save the environment and the planet. They would never do this just to save some money.

    1. Re:Tesla by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't lump in Tesla with Google and Amazon. Tesla is a green company and has a mission to save the environment and the planet. They would never do this just to save some money.

      Now that I know Elon Musk is into entheogens, I'm much more inclined to like him. I didn't really care for him before, but now that I know he's just really, really high, I think he's kind of alright.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Tesla by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      I have it on good authority that someone 'awake' but in an Ambien fuge will do anything you ask, and not remember it in the morning.

      Highly suggestible state. The night shift at the Tesla factory is brainwashing Elon while he sleepwalks.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  4. So Amazon uses Electricity like a Grow-Op? by mykepredko · · Score: 3, Funny

    Honest officer, they're not marijuana plants, I'm running an experimental, all natural, plant based data centre for Amazon!

    1. Re:So Amazon uses Electricity like a Grow-Op? by e3m4n · · Score: 4, Funny

      but we keep having to change out memory chips on the servers. They seem to have a problem retaining short term data.

  5. hmm by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In at least two states, it's also negotiated with utilities and politicians to stick other people with the bills

    So, is this Amazon's fault, or the fault of the "utilities and politicians"?

    1. Re:hmm by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Can't it be both?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  6. Base Loads by PPH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... are what pay utilities bills. Fixed and predictable, they bring in revenue and utilize the transmission/distribution systems needed to feed them most efficiently. It's what makes it possible for power companies to provide you power when you fire up the Jacuzzi or stand in front of an open freezer, trying to make up your mind about ice cream flavors.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  7. Greenpeace vs the Environment by FeelGood314 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Coal would have died without Greenpeace and others like them driving up the cost of nuclear. Coal mines were going bankrupt in the late 60s and early 70s but then nuclear costs went up 10x and suddenly coal was viable again. Greenpeace is responsible for a good portion of the CO2 in the atmosphere as well as lead, arsenic and radioactive dust released from coal burning (yes, coal has radio active material in it, usually in the form of daughter particles of radon decay). Plus all the deaths from the mining of coal. Screw them and their virtue signalling about being good for the environment.

    1. Re:Greenpeace vs the Environment by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Two incidents. That's all you have? Why don't you count all the deaths resulting from prolonged coal mining and burning compared to the deaths from those disasters?

      Typical disaster blindness. You only notice the scary things and not the real killers.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.