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Rights Groups Are Demanding That Google Doesn't Release A Censored Search Engine In China (buzzfeednews.com)
More than a dozen tech NGOs and human rights groups have issued an open letter calling on Google to stop work on a censored search engine project in China. From a report: Organizations including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Access Now and others released the letter to Google CEO Sundar Pichai on Tuesday, saying the tech giant's plans to release a censored version of its search engine app to users in China represent an "alarming capitulation by Google on human rights." The project, dubbed Dragonfly, was first reported by The Intercept earlier this month. According to audio of a staff meeting, obtained by the New York Times, Pichai said that "if we were to do our mission well, we are to think seriously about how to do more in China. However, he went on to say that Google was "not close to launching a search product in China."
The biggest alarm bells are raised by the ordering.
Trump is looking into censoring searches at google right here. Maybe he can tie our search results to our credit scores, for that personal touch?
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
Even if Google does release a censored search engine in China, the chances are very good that the Chinese Government censors, who presumably tell Google what to censor, won't be able to keep up with the flood of information, phrased this way or that way, that is directly or indirectly about all kinds of uncomfortable issues and topics for the Chinese government.
A long time ago, Freeman Dyson said the way to defeat the Soviet Union was to give them PCs (I think he actually said Macs).
So that people would be able to gather and pass information easily, without the government in the loop.
Eventually, more knowledge in the hands of more of the population will presumeably reduce totalitarian government power, as independent ideas flourish like weeds.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
They already run Bing in China, why aren't people complaining about that?
Funny when Google was helping develop better guided missile programs for the US government that would actually save lives they all had a collective hissy fit. But helping the Chinese government oppress its people is A-Ok with them.
I have a better idea, how about google fix the censorship issues with the versions of google outside of China first? You know, something about not being a hypocrite and all?
Clash of the SJW titans!
In my experience, SJWs generally kind of _like_ censorship. As long as it's censoring the kind of thing they don't like of course. Also SJWs don't give two shits about anything going on in the rest of the world. They want to focus their hate on everyone in their own country.
The letter should have been addressed to the Google shareholders. It's amazing how these american NGOs are blatantly unaware of how capitalism works...
IBM helped the Nazis deal with the jews!
many years ago South Africa was boycotted by many sports teams due to apartheid. There was a huge row: some said that this would punish South Africa; others said that sending Sports people would make more people aware of the issues and so help bring about change. Similar things have happened with other countries.
So the debate here is: should we punish China by keeping Google out or does Google being there help the Chinese people's political awareness/... by letting them see more from the outside world (even if it is filtered) ? I am not qualified to answer that question.
How about using another search engine, Sherlock?
American corporations are not going to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese people, and at least for now they consider their rapidly rising standard of living to be a reasonable tradeoff for the CCP's censorship.
Google can play a positive role in China, and it is better for them to engage than to leave the market to companies like Baidu that will be even more compliant censors.
The petitioners are insisting on a worse outcome because it is more ideologically pure.
Whats more important, humans or doallzts?
Anything missing there?
Top hit seems to be to American Scientist magazine, which is reasonable (since Google ignores plurals in the search algorithm: "American Scientists" search is identical to "American Scientist"). Other than that, it's mostly whoever has been in the news recently or for some other reason has some web pages.
Why, what do you think is missing?
Has years of not having access to google at all weakened chinas resolve in their great firewall? If I sell vegetables to a parent that is forcing their children to be vegetarians, am I violating the kids rights by giving the parents something they will allow. Or am I margionally lessening how much the kids are starving? Google is currently blocked in china, china ain't going to unblock google.. and with or without china-google the people still use vpns or whatever they can to sneak past the wall and access real google.
I am pretty sure money is going to win out each time.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
No, but still. We don't like it when companies set or influence social policy in the US, why would we expect the Chinese be any different? If Google operated search in China, they should absolutely conform to the laws the Chinese legislative body implemented, whatever they may be, however they were implemented.
Companies are not vectors for social change, populations are. If the Chinese take issue with their internal laws, they would change them either through revolt, political expression, or whatever means their system allows for such a change.
It is not our job to enforce our ideals and laws on everyone else. Google is stupid for not putting search in China, because Baidu won't hesitate to enter the US market. When it does, we would absolutely demand they conform to our laws.
If you have an issue with Chinese sensorship, go to China and campaign.
While I agree that Google shouldn't censor search engines results. However the reality of the situation is, if Google doesn't it just will not be available in China at all.
So the population will not have it at all.
They will be better with some of the information vs none. Especially, as some information can populate and get into peoples thoughts and minds faster then a government can deem it censored.
Also China equivalent is a white listed search engine vs a black listed engine, so information will populate faster then what can be approved.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
He was a British inventor.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The worst atrocities in the world were carried out by people who thought they were doing it for the best of reasons.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Have they also asked for a non-censored search engine in the United States?
It seems to me that Google's activity in China is simply an expansion of their current US censorship, rather than anything new. Sure, the keywords might be "falun gong" instead of "conservative news", but it's silly to protest their activity in China without acknowledging their activity in the States.
Google already self-censor to a large degree in the US by giving more weight to democratic-leaning stories. When the censorship is less obvious; it is often more effective.
PJ Media are actually quite anti-Trump, but that's irrelevant. What's relevant is that the author described his method in the article, allowing you — or anyone else — to replicate his results...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The reality is even when google was in china they weren't competitive so they pulled out. going back in they need to obey the rules, they censor content in every other country so why not China too? I doubt it will make a difference there as it would be like a Chinese search engine starting in the US, it has no hope of any real influence regardless of content.
I wonder if we could have the censorship lifted in our 'progressive western democracies?'
Requiem for the American Dream
American corporations are not going to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese people,
No, it will be up to the Chinese government. The people don't have a say in this.
and at least for now they consider their rapidly rising standard of living to be a reasonable tradeoff for the CCP's censorship.
No, they acknowledge their inability to protest the censorship and surveillance and instead attempt low-keyed mitigation (e.g., VPNs) or are simply resigned to their situation. There is no tradeoff because there is no decision to be made.
Google can play a positive role in China, and it is better for them to engage than to leave the market to companies like Baidu that will be even more compliant censors.
I'm not sure why Baidu would be a more strict censor. Is this a suggestion that the Chinese government is willing to allow Google some leeway or breaks in their implementation of the firewall? The Chinese government seeks to strengthen local businesses, so this decision to allow Google as a competitor isn't consistent with their usual strategy. The only reasons for the Chinese government to allow Google into their market are to exert some measure of control over Google, to gain observability into Google technology, and perhaps to hold up Google as a trophy head (i.e., see, even the vaunted Google will kneel and obey our wishes because we can use our market to exert power over them).
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
The fact is that most of K Street and Congress are bought and paid for by China, and the more people see Putin hiding in their closet, the more China will be able to strengthen its economic, military and social engineering hegemony.
Chinese government and companies employ many thousands of people to censor.
And no, the Chinese do not tell Google or others what to censor, at least not very often. Google and others decide what to censor, and if the Chinese do not like it then they threaten to shut Google down. If Google does an excellent job then they might be granted a few favors.
Companies like WeChat employ most of the censors. They use a combination of patterns and terms. The spend their lives monitoring the internet, and become quite good at it.
If any censor is caught letting something through then they may have to write a self-criticism. And maybe lose their job. Possibly, although most unlikely, something worse.
But Chinese respect authority. It would never occur to them that they are doing anything wrong. They are just maintaining social harmony.
Google operating in China is very dangerous. It will affect their operations in the USA. Partly just though culture, as more of their engineering is done in China. But also overtly -- if China does not like Google's US search results they can penalize Google China. And Google is (now) all about making money.
Is this a suggestion that the Chinese government is willing to allow Google some leeway or breaks in their implementation of the firewall?
Yes. The GFWOC is much less monolithic than you seem to believe.
Have you ever been to China? You seem to have some naive ideas about how things work there.
Disclaimer: I have an ulterior motive for wanting Google back in China: Baidu's English language search engine sucks.
So you suggest seeking a better outcome through more reprehensible means? While I see your point, that doesn't excuse evil.
An imperfect improvement is better than none.
If Google search goes back to China, a billion people will have another choice, and no one will be worse off. How is that "evil"?
Is this a suggestion that the Chinese government is willing to allow Google some leeway or breaks in their implementation of the firewall?
Yes. The GFWOC is much less monolithic than you seem to believe.
Have you ever been to China? You seem to have some naive ideas about how things work there.
Disclaimer: I have an ulterior motive for wanting Google back in China: Baidu's English language search engine sucks.
Yes, I have been to China. But I have to admit to not being courageous enough try searching for any forbidden words, so I don't know from experience if the alleged forbidden words are myth or reality. Have you ever tried searching for any forbidden words?
I admit to not being privy to the rules of the firewall. I also don't know what monolithic means with regards to a firewall. Are you suggesting there isn't a set of rules regarding what is allowed? (Not said sarcastically ...) It would be useful if you could help educate me and others on this topic.
Are you suggesting there isn't a set of rules regarding what is allowed?
Yes. There is no fixed set of rules, nor any published set of rules.
The censoring is very different depending on location, time, and forum. Filtering is most strict in Beijing because it is the political center of China, but also in Xinjiang and Tibet. In a 2nd tier city like, say, Wuhan, there is much less monitoring. Censorship is stricter around sensitive dates, especially June 4th, but also May 4th (On May 4th, 1919 there was rioting in China after the publication of the Versailles Treaty). So even using the numbers 64 or 54 might get a post deleted in a political forum, but not in a math forum.
After watching a youtube "laRouche" video about the city of London England is not a city in the normal sense but owned by banking groups, I wondered if there was any cross reference with the "Illuminati"
https://twitter.com/StevWork/s...
(see the attached picture of Google search result.)
Please note that the top returns from a google search of laRouche with Illuminati had nothing to do with either.
Almost the entire first page results replaced with what seems completely random results.
SOooooo, if they are 'protecting' us from knowing about these conspiricies, what other information will the Witch family owned and directed corporate Satanic Masters are they hiding. The Deadly Sin of Greed can not explain this, their is more pure damnation slimy evil here.
When Google censors American search results, IT'S FOR OUR OWN GOOD. Because Big Brother Google loves us all.
Seems like someone took a left turn in their decision making. I'm no fan of any of the censorship stuff China or USAis doing. However, access to find some particular thing on a search engine is about as far from a "human right" as you can possibly get.
Human rights are things like food, water, air... claiming otherwise just waters down the value of your opinion later.
Rights groups demand it? Good luck with that.
"We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.