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Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought' (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or kefir -- can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning to normal after a course of antibiotics, and that different people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways. In the first of two papers published in the journal Cell, researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel and lead author on the studies.
The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools. They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15 people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."
The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools. They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15 people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."
Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.
Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar, but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.
So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.
But what does it all mean, Basil?
Was it for the better that "probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual"?
Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts, there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the kimchi.
Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt, kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.
I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since there's a small amount of alcohol in it.
Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end up with good gut bacteria without even trying.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when some supplements have pretty large doses of these.
From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others), and you'll probably be better off.
What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.
That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why you take the pills.
If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.
There are lots of good reasons to try and change your microbiome. We are pretty sure that some microbiomes cause ulcers, obesity, and even diabetes, We have suspicious about cancer, autism, autoimmune diseases, and many other things.
We don't know much about microbiomes, we are not sure about a lot of things and it might make zero sense to take a probiotic pill. But it also might make a lot of sense.
These studies don't answer the real question. They have nothing to do with it being beneficial or not, they just show that a change has occurred. They are talking about whether the pills change your biome, (and they do), not about whether it is a good idea to change your biome by taking the pills.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors didn't get scurvy. I used to wonder how these past cultures survived the whole winter without vegetables. They actually didn't.
The amount of bacteria in many fermented foods exceeds probiotics dosages. They might not be very beneficial, but they're probably not very harmful either. They certainly have an effect on the gut biome. In some cases certain strains have been shown to be beneficial, through immune system modulation, for certain conditions, such as in the natural treatment of eczma - there are efforts ongoing to commercialize on this.
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
The amount of bacteria in many fermented foods exceeds probiotics dosages. They might not be very beneficial, but they're probably not very harmful either. They certainly have an effect on the gut biome. In some cases certain strains have been shown to be beneficial, through immune system modulation, for certain conditions, such as in the natural treatment of eczma - there are efforts ongoing to commercialize on this.
I actually heard about the probiotic stuff on NPR where they were talking to a researcher. He said the exact opposite - that fermented foods were superior to many probiotic preparations such as pills because they didn't have as much bacteria, and were mixed with other materials that would help with digestion and ensuring that the consumed bacteria didn't overwhelm where they weren't supposed to.
I don't read AC A human right
Probiotics are bacteria. Lactobacillus is a type of bacteria. They are gram-positive, facultative anaerobic (meaning they don't need oxygen) or microaerophilic, rod-shaped, non-spore-forming bacteria. There are lots of different species of lactobacillus. These are "friendly" bacteria that normally live in our digestive, urinary, and genital systems without causing disease. They also occur in nature, for example on raw, fresh vegetables, or fermented foods like yogurt and in dietary supplements. They are generally harmless, sometimes beneficial to almost everyone.
Perhaps on NPR they were saying the fermented foods have less noxiousbacteria than probiotic preparations. There are other kinds of bacteria, that in a person with a well functioning immune system will be harmless, but could cause problems to someone who is already ill. And then there are things like Clostridium botulinum aka botulism - comes from spoiled canned foods, that you definitely don't want to ingest. It is deadly.
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
Conclusion: Privately funded research replaces the academic biome with a pathogenic strain.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I am well aware that there is a symbiosis at work in my digestive tract. But that still doesn't make me feel good about gulping down live cultures of bacteria like that. ICK!
My disgust at the thought of eating probiotics is only dwarfed by the horror I experienced when I learned about non-surgical fecal transplants!
Oh, I am reacting just typing that.
The world is a horrifying place.
Well the fact is, when you were born (assuming not a c-section) you received your initial bacteria for colonization from the fluids in the birth canal. A healthy woman has a balance of all kinds of (mostly beneficial) bacteria living there and this is what becomes your first gut bacteria.
Does it follow that cunnilingus would be better than probiotics?
Seriously, is anything [...] really bad for you in moderation?
Plutonium.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The summary (and you really don't expect me to read TFA do you?) does not make clear at all why this would be a bad thing.
The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel and lead author on the studies.
OK. Is that a bad thing then?
Is the "indigenous" microbiome automatically better than the probiotic? (Maybe it has cool costumes and casinos and stuff)?
I mean, it might be better, but the summary isn't giving us any hint why
But that still doesn't make me feel good about gulping down live cultures of bacteria like that
I suggest you never eat again. Even more don't swallow anything ever, your mouth is full of disgusting live cultures.
I think you meant this Soppressata or this Sopressa.
Small correction, since I was actually wondering what you meant (and I've been living in Italy for >30 years...).
"very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment,"
Isn't that the entire point of taking probiotics? To populate the gut microbiome with whatever you are ingesting? Who in their right mind would have theorized anything else occurring? The entire point is to get those strains of bacteria in the guts. How is that a "very severe disturbance"?
that's how yoghurt is made. Same with cheese. How did you think they were made?
saddly some cheap industrial process are just mixing in cheap acids to accelerate the precipitation.
you also get a firm product at the end just like with naturally occurring lactic acid, but with less waiting for the fermentation to produce those.
but yes, the *real* one relies on fermentation.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
My biggest concern is the water content of organic food. I assume they donâ(TM)t use filtered water so itâ(TM)s probably full of whatever was dumped upstream.
"The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance."
A pound and a half of Sauerkraut can do that for you.
So you're saying it's better not to moderate use of plutonium? ;)
Probiotics are good, probiotics are not so good.
Coffee is bad, coffee is good.
Wine is good, wine is bad.
Calories are bad, no carbs are bad.
Nutrition is complicated. Science will continue to find seemingly contradictory conclusions forever.
So what's a person to do? Do what Grandma always said: don't overdo anything. Sure, eat yogurt, but don't live on the stuff. Drink coffee, but don't drink ONLY coffee. Drink wine, but not too much. And so on.
It's not rocket science.
I'm not sure if there are hard statistics, but this is most often attributed to the increased amount of salt. There are lower incidences of heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, but an increased rate of stomach cancer.
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
+1
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
Probiotics are bacteria. Lactobacillus is a type of bacteria.
Uh... Yeah? I didn't say anything different?
Basically, the researcher was saying that bacteria aren't really supposed to be in the small intestine, mostly the colon and lower. Even then, there are limits to how much bacterial loading is good.
Perhaps on NPR they were saying the fermented foods have less noxiousbacteria than probiotic preparations.
Nope, most of the concern was that the probiotic preparations were dumping their loads in inappropriate sections of the gut in inappropriate amounts.
To use an analogy, you put gasoline in your fuel tank. Pouring gasoline over your engine directly isn't good for your car. To him, probiotics were like tossing gasoline on/in random sections of your car, or at least, they couldn't guarantee that the gas they were pouring was into the fuel tank. Or that they weren't trying to pour 100 gallons into a 20 gallon tank... Most of the time the gas would just evaporate, but you still have an increased risk of a car fire.
I don't read AC A human right
Ah, I get you now.
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>