Saudi Arabia Invests $1 Billion In Potential Tesla Rival (cnn.com)

Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:05 · Score: 0

Tell us how this is actually good news for Tesla!

Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Barsteward · 2018-09-17 20:14 · Score: 1

probably it'll make the people who continually without justification knock Tesla sit up and realise that EVs are the future and stop their childish snipping from the sidelines because they shorted Tesla

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by gl4ss · 2018-09-17 20:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

What's electric cars being the future has to do with TSLA's viability as a company? VAG, BMW, etc have literally tens of billions of money sitting waiting to convert their shit over if it becomes financially a good proposition to do it - they have tens of gigafactories - their ENTIRE EXPERTISE that has enabled them to remain viable car companies is based around production and logistics around it - the Tesla gigafactory seems puny in comparison and indeed it is, it's just called giga for marketing reasons - vag doesn't need to "market" it's factories, so they don't, but there's a reason why they're still alive and not bailed out for the tenth time.
The thing with Tesla is that.. they don't really have any special technology. They just sold it at a price that didn't make any fucking sense for them to be doing, since they were selling all production(supposedly) and still losing money(even after one time book shenigans). The reason Musk is under enermous pressure is that now is the time the company has to start making profit, not another 10 years into the future because electric cars are the future. Basically his promises that his supermodernhyper Gigafactory can churn out production cheaper than VAG etc's factories can need to be kept right now.
Lucid motors also however, a shit grade investment. Their car? a fucking 1000hp sedan. good luck selling that 20 000 - 130 000 units in a year. They're not sitting on any technology unique to them and they don't have decades of expertise in manufacturing.
So yeah, Saudis putting money into it - whatever. Call the market up when they have some special sauce to make 20 000 dollar cars people want to buy.
And of course teslas are nice cars, they cost an arm and a leg and still are sold for too cheap so they better well should be, but the technology really isn't all that special, whats special is putting them into a product and selling it at the price.
Why do american car companies insist on building stuff people can't afford anyways en masse? don't they realize that 80 000 dollar + cars are an extreme luxury, just because they live rich themselves? is it because they can't optimize their production for worth shit? because Musk sure as fuck sold the cheapo model of the 3 but can't deliver.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:53 · Score: 0

Why do american car companies insist on building stuff people can't afford anyways en masse? don't they realize that 80 000 dollar + cars are an extreme luxury, just because they live rich themselves?
You say this, as people line up for Tesla events.
Much like Apple, a product priced well above the competition doesn't have to make sense, as long as you have the demand.
As far as people being patient, we live in the Kickstarter world now. People are willing to shell out a lot of money and wait a long time for a product they want.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Joce640k · 2018-09-17 20:56 · Score: 3, Interesting

Nope.
Tesla are making about 30% on their cars: https://electrek.co/2018/07/16...
That's a much higher margin than gasoline car makers are getting and shows that Tesla has a huge start on everybody, "special technology" or not.

Why do american car companies insist on building stuff people can't afford anyways en masse? don't they realize that 80 000 dollar + cars are an extreme luxury, just because they live rich themselves? is it because they can't optimize their production for worth shit?
They have years of back-orders right now, why would they sell for less?
(and they aren't even taking orders in all countries yet!)

because Musk sure as fuck sold the cheapo model of the 3 but can't deliver.
Targets are being met, production is on schedule.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by djinn6 · 2018-09-17 21:21 · Score: 2

Tesla are making about 30% on their cars: https://electrek.co/2018/07/16..

Only if you don't count the Model 3. Tesla's own numbers tells a different story:

Gross margin for total automotive decreased from 28% to 21% in the three months ended June 30, 2018 as compared to the three months ended June 30, 2017.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Errol+backfiring · 2018-09-17 22:23 · Score: 1

I think that most of us bash Tesla's abuse of power and privacy, not the fact that they make electric vehicles.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by gl4ss · 2018-09-17 23:08 · Score: 1

look, do not link electrek on tesla stories.
They are most definitely NOT making 30% on their cars.
not on ANY of them. even they admitted the reason they weren't selling the cheapo 3 was that they would have taken a loss on every cheapo 3 they would have sold.
Tesla would be in a really, really, really different place if they could be making 30% on production that's 100% full. they aren't at that place and if they were they would be making weekly press statements about it.
Look, I wasn't even talking about the money they sell them for. it's obviously too low and has been for years. it's a pricepoint meant to keep the order books 200% full, which frankly is stupid business. There's two reasons for why it's too low 1) their books don't show a continuous operating profit from making and selling them(other costs out of that) and b) their order books are 100% full, supposedly.
The point is, that it's not a viable long term market to go mass produce. and really man, you're exactly the kind of person who I was referring to when I said that some people think that 80k is cheap, somehow, in global scale. It really isn't. it's a luxury niche market in volume of car production.
and anyways, 4 weeks delivery is not that full. thats what their website claimed anyways. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT YEARS OF BACK ORDERS?

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2018-09-17 23:11 · Score: 2

they have tens of gigafactories
If you're talking about battery factories...no, they don't have them, at least not yet.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Rei · 2018-09-17 23:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, I wish Lucid well. They seem to know what they're doing and have a reasonable strategy. They're way behind the curve and have a lot of slog ahead of them, but I think they could become a legitimate minor player on the high end. And that's rather high praise from me compared to my take on many EV startups.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by gl4ss · 2018-09-17 23:17 · Score: 1

you know whats different between Apple and Tesla?
Apple makes cheapo products and sells them at premium price.
Tesla makes luxury products(production costswise) and sells them at upper premium price.
Again, I'm no saying that it's stupid to buy a tesla car. just that it would seem stupid, based on the numbers we have, to invest money into the company. These two are different things. If a company constantly sells out, but it's prices remain same, and they're not making steady cash(one time investments etc taken out), there's something wrong with it.
Lining up to Tesla events isn't really that different from people lining up to Ferrari events too. It doesn't tell anything about the health of the companys product.
Last time I checked the website promised 4 weeks delivery for model 3 though, couple of weeks ago. I don't know how that equates to years? or are they simply lying on their web order when they take downpayments on the cars?
Tesla is in a make or break situation right now - if they cannot get their cashflows positive investors are getting really itchy. And this is even without the looming competition, even if the competition isn't in the business of selling cars at a loss.
Teslas capital raising would be in a very different position if they could show investors that they were making 30% on every car, that number is simply bullshit - or if true,it doesn't count any other ongoing expenses of the company which would explain such a number and why their top level book guys seem to have a habit of running off.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by AmiMoJo · 2018-09-17 23:45 · Score: 1

A lot of investors still seem to think they can get in "early" and grab a slice of the patent pie with high end vehicles that will develop and prove the technology that will eventually end up in affordable cars.
Unfortunately for them Kia, Hyundai, Nissan/Renault and a bunch of Chinese manufacturers have already done that and are selling those affordable cars today. But I suppose this is pocket change for the Saudis so maybe they are willing to take a punt.

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Re: Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 23:47 · Score: 0

Wrong. We aren't against EVs, despite the hype. We're against that pasty-face, egotistical, lying asshole, Mr. Musk. Fuck all stock brokers and holders. We just want your idol to go down in flames.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by 110010001000 · 2018-09-17 23:59 · Score: 1

That is baloney. Electrek is a joke. They aren't making 30% margin on their cars. Why do people just regurgitate stuff they read on the Internet? Also, there are no years of back orders. You eventually run out of people who can afford a $60,000+ EV.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by lgw · 2018-09-18 00:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

Mercedes has yet to run out of people who can afford $120,000-240,000 AMG models. The Model S is a mid-tier luxury car - plenty of volume there as luxury cars go. That's not really the point, is it?
Tesla's future is about the Model 3, not the high-end stuff. If they're making any kind of profit on them now, that's great long term, as their per-unit cost will fall over time. The question is whether they can make it through the next 6 months.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by lgw · 2018-09-18 00:33 · Score: 2

I wish them success just so we can maybe have an end to the conspiracy theories about how big oil killed the electric car.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by DrXym · 2018-09-18 00:40 · Score: 1

I really don't see a major difference between Apple or Tesla brands. They both sell products at a premium in excess of their production costs, their business model involves building vertical markets and they both suffer from the cult of personality.
Tesla cars are very nice overall and finally overcoming some production issues but it's funny to make valid critical points about the car, the company or Musk and watch all the defenders leap out of the woodwork.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by andydread · 2018-09-18 01:09 · Score: 1

Sounds like a similar agruement from horse and buggy traders from back in the day when self propelled buggies started growning in the marketplace. News flash...new things are expensive until they get more popular. Electric cars are not an exception. Battery production has to scale up for the price to come down. So just like anything new that's just getting established in the marketplace the rich buy the product first then the masses later when the price drops.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:09 · Score: 0

at a premium in excess of their production costs
While true of Apple, this is markedly not true of Tesla. They generate massive loss and exhibit significant diseconomies of scale.
Also, the markets they are delivering to are nothing like each other. One company sells a shiny toy to any sheeple who can save $1k over several years, the other is trying to sell a luxury item that costs more than a house to a demographic that isn't used to mismatched doors, bad paint jobs and no after service.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:17 · Score: 0

Car companies are integrators. You think they can let others blaze the trail and then enter the game at the right time. People said that about Microsoft too. They can just buy what they need or catch up by putting heaps of money into research. Well, they tried that with Nokia and look what that got them. They bought Skype. They were late to search. Microsoft is not a contender in mobile, fails with one social network project after the other, is an almost irrelevant me-too in search and has no leverage in voice. You can't just buy your way to the top. And that's just software, which is mostly unaffected by patents. Manufacturing something is very difficult if you're starting late: Battery technology is a patent minefield. It doesn't matter that Gigafactory is small compared to what VAG and BMW could afford to build when they won't be able to secure the necessary intellectual property. An integrator is in deep trouble when key parts are controlled by competitors.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:43 · Score: 0

They generate massive loss
"loss" as in operational loss ? or as in "spending a whole lot of cash to start the production lines which will generate cash later on" ?
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by 110010001000 · 2018-09-18 01:46 · Score: 1

Yes they have run out of people and that is the point: there is no volume to make money on. Have you looked at Mercedes sedan sales? They are selling thousands per quarter, which may seem like a lot to you, but it isn't. Sedan sales aren't the future. Tesla can't make any money on a $35k Model 3, which is why they don't offer one, and even if they did they aren't going to sell very many of them anyway because sedan sales are plummeting. It is amazing how out of touch people are with the market. Tesla will never offer a $35k car. They are a luxury niche car maker.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by thegarbz · 2018-09-18 01:53 · Score: 1

VAG, BMW, etc have literally tens of billions of money sitting waiting to convert their shit over if it becomes financially a good proposition to do it - they have tens of gigafactories - their ENTIRE EXPERTISE that has enabled them to remain viable car companies is based around production and logistics around it

That all sounds good until you look at the actual attempts at doing so. Porsche has recently shown quite well how difficult it actually is to retool a production line to all electric. They're pushing shit uphill despite their expertise.
It's always easy to point to people with big factories and say "Look how awesome" But the reality is that the major car companies are putting quite the effort into electrical cars and have not all that much to show for it.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by misexistentialist · 2018-09-18 02:09 · Score: 1

Why do american car companies insist on building stuff people can't afford anyways en masse?
Because it's all financed, similar to the retailers that offer payment plans on high-end appliances to people who can't afford the basic models, though the car companies don't need high interest to cover defaults because they will be bailed out by the taxpayers
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 02:15 · Score: 0

If you spend "a whole lot of cash" to build a "production line" which you later need to throw out and redo from scratch in a tent because you lack expertise and are stupid enough to believe your own "disruptive" bullshit, that's lost money, "which will" not "generate cash later on". So, yeah, operational loss all the way from zero to 70 billion, a lot of that government aid.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 02:42 · Score: 0

a lot of that government aid.
where ? proof ? links? or are you referring to the loan given to amongst others, to tesla, which has been paid back, in full https://money.cnn.com/2013/05/... ?
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 02:50 · Score: 0

Hi Elon!
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by drinkypoo · 2018-09-18 03:23 · Score: 1

The thing with Tesla is that.. they don't really have any special technology.
Except the most advanced electric motor in the business, sure. And the best battery packs, yeah, except for those two things. Oh, and the best motor controllers. So you know, except from the whole goddamned powertrain, nothing they have is special.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Zorro · 2018-09-18 03:28 · Score: 1

It is the Stonecutters!
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by DrXym · 2018-09-18 03:37 · Score: 1

Tesla don't generate a massive loss. Teardowns suggest they'll make a profit, even from the $35,000 base model whenever that car eventually materialises. They sure as hell are making money from the $49,000 model, the cheapest they sell at this time. Especially when many people are nickel and dimed into spending even more. The biggest risk they face is that they might start losing money from sales of the model S & X (even more profit) if people end up buying $35k model 3s.
It would be fair to say their business model required a massive upfront investment and may take years to turn a profit, but that isn't the same as claiming the cars are lossmaking.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by lgw · 2018-09-18 04:06 · Score: 1

Yeah, you're claiming that the Model 3 won't be popular, or can't be made for a profit at $35k. I think it will be as popular as a sedan ever is in America, for the next few years, just for the novelty. As for cost, various tear-downs have estimated the COGS below $35k. Whether they can make a profit after fixed costs is the real question. If you have a firm opinion, trade the stock.
Now, if we're looking out beyond 5 years, they need a pickup truck to be a successful American car company. I remain skeptical on that front, but the Tesla semi is a brilliant marketing ploy to sell pickups IMO.

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Re: Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 04:10 · Score: 0

No. A third party estimate says that it (A higher spec model) could be made for a 30% profit. That's not the same as actually making a 30% profit. And 30% is on the low side for a high spec variant.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by MachineShedFred · 2018-09-18 05:07 · Score: 1

I'm not him / her, but the answer I'd have is that it's growing the market for EVs by introducing possible competition.
Competition makes markets healthy, and improves / matures the offerings from each competitor.
Next question?

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by MachineShedFred · 2018-09-18 05:11 · Score: 1

You know they built an additional assembly line in the tent, right? The original one for Model 3 is still operating.
Were they overly ambitious with their level of automation? Sure. And that probably comes with the lack of experience as you suggest. However, it's not like they tore the whole thing out and started over like you also suggest.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:26 · Score: 0

>- they have tens of gigafactories
>the Tesla gigafactory seems puny in comparison and indeed it is, it's just called giga for marketing reasons
God you are a completely uninformed biased idiot. The Gigafactory is called that because it produces batteries in a capacity on the order of Gigawatt Hours. No, VAG, BMW, etc do not have "tens of gigafactories". Just another internet dipshit commenting confidently like he knows something.
https://electrek.co/2018/08/02/tesla-gigafactory-1-battery-production-20-gwh/
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:28 · Score: 0

Tesla don't generate a massive loss.
Which Tesla are you talking about? I'm talking about the one that trades on Nasdaq under TSLA, which has never made a profit under the typical accounting standards used by every other automobile manufacturer.
Teardowns suggest they'll make a profit,
I don't know about "teardowns", but their accounting suggests they are heading for bankruptcy.
but that isn't the same as claiming the cars are lossmaking.
It is the same or worse if they need the same investment for every new model. Which is what has happened so far.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:29 · Score: 0

What a abuse of power? Privacy I can get behind, but I don't understand the power part.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:35 · Score: 0

You know they built an additional assembly line in the tent, right?
No, not "right". They did not "build an additional assembly line" under the tent, they "retooled" the "original" one. And by "retooled" they mean scrapped the old one and built another one in its place, which happened to extend into under the tent. And with the "retooled" line, which cost them more than the original, they still cannot produce the number of vehicles at the cost they boasted about years ago.
Tesla's management is completely reactive - in the same way in which the behavior of an insect is - they don't have the managerial capacity and engineering expertise to figure out where the problems will be, instead they constantly operate in troubleshooting mode.
They will not see a profit.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:37 · Score: 0

No, I'm referring to the vehicle subsidies, a lot of which they got by cheating on emissions standards - for example lying that they have cars with swappable batteries in under 4 minutes.
It is the subsidies (and some "creative" accounting) that allowed Tesla to boast with "profits" when in fact they keep burning money.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:41 · Score: 0

The fact that Tesla no longer has waiting time on the expensive models and still does not accept orders for the preordered cheap ones speaks volumes.
There's no demand at the price Tesla is selling, and there's no more "novelty" involved, now with real electric cars coming out that have a better build and are comparable in every other way with a Tesla.
Tesla will file for bankruptcy early next year.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:49 · Score: 0

According to their fanbois, and noone else.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2018-09-18 06:06 · Score: 2

Tesla Roadster circa 2012 has not been beaten by any of the big companies you talk about. There is still no 300 mile electric roadster in the martket.
They have the money. yes.
Do they have the will? Are they willing to make a no compromise electric that would definitely cannibalize their ICE sales in the short term? No.
They are threading the needle. Slowly gradually build their electric capacity and when the gross margin in EV becomes better than their gross margin in ICEV they will switch. That is their plan.
Without Tesla their time line will stretch well into 2030s and 2040s. If Tesla is dead, it will be that long before you get no compromise electric car.
That is the reason to root for Tesla. If you want the switch over to EV be fast, you need to light a fire under the tail of the dinosaurs. And Tesla's viability is the fire. No Tesla, No EV till 2040.

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Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 06:26 · Score: 0

And yet there are still month+ long waits for people that order a Model 3, versus when it's delivered.
Are you saying that it takes them a week to build each car or something? There's thousands coming out of the factory every week, and the waits persist.
Why would that be if there is no demand?
Answer: you are clueless and don't know what you're talking about.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 06:49 · Score: 0

Except the most advanced electric motor in the business
Except the induction motor was patented by Tesla (no, the actual guy, in 1887).

And the best battery packs
I'm not holding my breath for a separate wikipedia entry for Panasonic/Tesla Li:ion

Oh, and the best motor controllers
Oh, you mean the the ones made by Nvidia (31:05)?
Re: Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 08:25 · Score: 0

Bro the website you are linking to is a Tesla shill. We don't believe you.
Re: Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 08:34 · Score: 1

$80k+ cars sell fine in the US. Just ask Audi, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes. The only US brand that really plays there is Cadillac (sorry, Lincoln imagines itself being part of that club, but... we all have our delusions).
The US companies however are more than happy to sell you an $80k+ pickup truck or SUV (price a Ram 2500 Big Horn or Ford SuperDuty King Ranch...). And many americans seem to be more than happy with this arrangement..
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by mykro76 · 2018-09-18 15:15 · Score: 1

You say VAG, BMW etc have tens of gigafactories. They don't even have one. Are you referring instead to their automobile manufacturing plants?
The Tesla Gigafactory is a battery manufacturing facility in Nevada, it's separate from the Tesla Factory in California that builds the cars. VAG, BMW etc have yet to announce any battery factories and are still purchasing them from suppliers.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by theweatherelectric · 2018-09-18 15:29 · Score: 1

They don't even have one.
Here's one.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 16:07 · Score: 0

Why would that be if there is no demand?
Because they produce 85% lemons, because they don't have the setup to fix them fast, and because they did not build the capacity to ensure smooth delivery to their customers.
The long wait times, and the number of defective cars that have slipped through "quality control" is not an indication of demand, but an indication of managerial and engineering incompetence.
As for the "demand", we know they had 450k "reservations" made in 2016, of which 25% were gone last year. We haven't heard a peep on cancellations in ages, which is telling.
If one assumes the same rate (not unreasonable, given that the car isn't available and that there are already real options in the market for less), they are now probably at 50-60% cancellation rate.
That is, they have 180k active "reservations", they've delivered on a third of their "pent-up demand". They'll have another 25%-30% of that gone by April 1st next year, and will hit the demand ceiling head on with parking lots full of lemons they cannot sell below $50k, no cash and a market size of 5k vehicles a month.
So, someone will step in, close the business, sell off the assets and the remaining vehicles at a large discount and that'll be the end of it.
Musk will not have to do a thing - he can just retweet and pin his April 1st tweet from last year - he can even manage it smoothly and on time.
Re:Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 19:12 · Score: 0

There is no "Tesla Roadster", the Roadster was built by a luxury car company for Tesla.
Re: Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Type44Q · 2018-09-19 01:59 · Score: 1

Fuck, you know you've made a difference when The Desperate Shills (as it were) have to mention you by name.
Well done, REI. :D
Re: Rei, come on in, you're needed! by Type44Q · 2018-09-19 02:10 · Score: 1

What's electric cars being the future has to do with TSLA's viability as a company?

Surely they have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
(Or they have everything to do with one another- especially considering Tesla's current market position relativel to any [viable] competition... and at the end of the day, you're just another dumb shill making demonstrably disingenuous points... albeit in a slightly more subtle and indirect fashion than the next dumb shill.)

Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:09 · Score: 0

Other major investment in Silicon Valley:

creimer has decided to invest in producing video material for pedophiles and sex tourists!

This sounds crazy doesn't it? Well he sure is. Read his own posts below where he brags about it and seems all proud of it!

creimer wrote:
https://slashdot.org/comments....

Have you seen creimer's children band video [youtu.be]? Holy shit! That video got hundreds of view [twitter.com] with 95% coming from outside of the United States and the top three nations are well known for sex tourism. It doesn't surprise me that Slashdot has so many pedobears.

and:
https://slashdot.org/comments....

No. Thanks to YOU for calling me a pedophile. It has become my best performing video in the first 24 hours to date. All those views came from OUTSIDE the United States. Ukraine being 11% of the total.

and:
https://slashdot.org/comments....

Thanks to your Pedobear buddies, I got 25 hours of watch time in three days and coming in second to my Slashdot video with 30 hours of watch time in six months. Keep up the good work!

So basically creimer, you are bragging about providing video material to pedophiles and sex tourists and you do not see any problems with it as long as it brings views to your youtube channel.

Poor Chris, sad, very sad...

How long will it be before you do the right thing and take that video off line?

Re:Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:24 · Score: 0

There you are spamming amazon and youtube affiliate links with yet another fake account, you revenue stream hogging disgusting fat pedo-sexist tube of lard, Christopher Dale Reimer!
You can be sure I will be watching this fake account too. I know this is you because you told me you were working on your freepass 11 file server and you are so dumb that you can't even masquerade yourself properly.
Now, I told you I was out of meds last week and you didn't even care to contact me you lazy fucker.
How many times do I have to express the emergency of the situation??????
The python click script you wrote for my pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work!!!!!!
You fucking incompetent python script writer!!!
When it works, I get 4000+ clicks a day on my pheromone revenue stream web site but only 5 or 6 without it!!!!
Now, it seems like you dont care and that you have abandoned me you heartless fucking pig!
Bonus:
Here is a story that creimer told me when convincing me what a hard life he had:
The tree was him and the tree knot was his butt hole!
So, his uncle packed his fat ass with lard and with his cock! Not that it makes much of a difference but anyway, there it is!
Signed:
Ethell, The girl that used to love you and now hates you, burn in hell where you belong you sexist pedo-pig!
Re:Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:30 · Score: 0

It's so "funny" indeed you sick sack of shit. How can you find this funny???
I wonder who looks like a pedobear in his videos.
Also, about yourself learning how to pronounce first before trying to teach us how to pronounce Chris?
Maybe you should first learn to speak English too, it sure helps with pronunciation.
Re:Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 02:11 · Score: 0

Cwiss, I know reading comprehension isn't your forte but if you try harder, you might realize that his point is that you brag on Slashdot about having your videos watched by pedophiles and sex tourists and that you see nothing wrong with it as long as it brings additional views to your youtube channel!

If you believe my video violate YouTube community guidelines, report the video.
You have no conscience Cwiss...
Re:Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 03:21 · Score: 0

How old is your "friend" Cwiss?
Re:Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 03:24 · Score: 0

Don't click on his homepage link! creimer is trying to get you to subscribe automatically to his youtube channel, force you to watch his digi-feces videos and make money off you!

MODDOWN! ; creimer youtube spam post again!
creimer wants you to click on his youtube channel, then click on his stupid amazon affiliate link spam on Youtube. There is nothing of value on creimer youtube channel. Only creimer click-bot goes there.

CREIMER' SUBMISSIONS UPDATE:
Note also that creimer is trying to regain karma by getting his submissions published as articles on /. so make sure to go to:
https://slashdot.org/~The+Orig...
https://slashdot.org/~cre1mer
https://slashdot.org/~The+Fat+...
https://slashdot.org/~__aaclcg...
https://slashdot.org/~IDrinkFa...
https://slashdot.org/~_sharp'r...
https://slashdot.org/~crreimer
https://slashdot.org/~cdreimer
https://slashdot.org/~criss69
https://slashdot.org/~Anonymou...
https://slashdot.org/~FatCashe...
https://slashdot.org/~ILoveFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IHateFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IAteFatC...
https://slashdot.org/~ITapeFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IApeFatC...
https://slashdot.org/~IPrayFat...
https://slashdot.org/~FatCashe...
and mod down his submissions as well. The great thing is that you don't even need mod points to mod down a submission, just click on the "minus" icon!
Yes, believe it or not, creimer owns all the above sock puppet accounts. It is a mystery why Slashdot management tolerates it!
creimer wrote:

I don't bother with mod points. I'm doing something much more sinister. It took ten story submissions ? I'll have to double check the number ? to move cdreimer's karma from neutral to excellent without ever being exposed to the capricious mods. Mmmmmwwwwahahahahahahaha!
https://slashdot.org/comments....
Danger, Will Robinson, Danger! Creimy is posting more than 2 posts a day. Hurry! mod down otherwise /. will go to hell again!
Note: you can mod down even if already at -1 to lower karma and to prevent lost /. users to accidentally mod up.
creimer wrote:

All you need to do is find a website with a permissive TOS, say, Slashdot, create a Python script to scrape your own comments, sprinkle Amazon affiliate links in various posts, and then re-post past links whenever possible. Won't be long before you start making "coffee money" each month.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
C.D. Reimer is a renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."
But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!
Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses
And all the king's me
Re:Other major investment in Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 12:34 · Score: 0

You aren't entirely right in your analysis. Chris has many imaginary friends and he makes them talk through him so most likely; he said "Oh god" himself.
He is a fascinating subject that makes us progress in our studies.
--
Silvia Bunge
Psychology Department
University of California, Berkeley

What are the odds this will work? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:15 · Score: 0

This will probably get modded down as a troll, but someone needs to say it: Saudi Arabia has never innovated anything and has a culture that suppresses innovation, communication and the scientific method.

Highly educated Saudis live in the US and France. Their brain drain problem is nearly 100%.

Re:What are the odds this will work? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 21:24 · Score: 0

They have money to import a lot of brains though. This is more true of the Emirates.
Re:What are the odds this will work? by butchersong · 2018-09-18 01:51 · Score: 1

The average IQ in Saudi is 85.. They're holding onto being a semi functional (basically a non-african) country by their fingernails. They could possibly import East Asians en mass but I don't know many successful westerners that would want to live in a country where they behead people in the streets and might imprison you for flirting with a girl. Probably not a big deal though since we're talking about their investment in a western company. The work would likely occur in America and China.
Re:What are the odds this will work? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 03:56 · Score: 0

You're not wrong. Heck - Saudi Arabia makes Iran seem forward-looking, progressive, and free in comparison.

Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:20 · Score: 0

Isn't every car manufacturer, and every would be "entrepreneur" out there building their own electric car? The market will just be saturated, driving down prices to rock bottom, not too mention when automated cars hit and whatever replaces Uber starts renting them out in cities for cheaper than you can buy a car. I mean, it's great for consumers. And probably for the environment. But some of these companies have to go belly up.

Re:Crowded Market? by theweatherelectric · 2018-09-17 19:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

Isn't every car manufacturer, and every would be "entrepreneur" out there building their own electric car?
Yes. Jaguar and Mercedes are both bringing out electric cars, for instance. The Jaguar I-PACE looks to be a better car than the equivalent Tesla.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:02 · Score: 0

This is very much like the early days of the car industry. Many companies that no longer exist got on the car bandwagon. Some died without trace, some survived to merge or be bought by rivals and some survive in one form or another today. Competition like this is both good and bad for Tesla. However, I do believe that one of the reasons for Musk setting up Tesla was to kick start the EV industry and you can't argue that it is in motion now.
Re:Crowded Market? by AmiMoJo · 2018-09-17 20:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

They are all way too expensive. Anyone can build a really expensive EV, those aren't very interesting.
It's the affordable end of the market that is exciting. Kia and Hyundai both have really strong offerings (Niro and Kona) with 250-300 mile range and a lot of value for money. Nissan may have a decent Leaf out this year, Tesla may one day get to $35k but that's looking expensive for a very basic, stripped down car now...
Kona/Niro are both really impressive. Range, tech (including auto-steering), quality and performance are all there.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:23 · Score: 0

The asian car makers will probably dominate this market in a decade or so just like they did for the petrol market in the 80/90's. The average joe will probably buy a Honda, Toyota, Kia whatever leaving Tesla and the like to the luxury market they have already been serving. The american auto makers will probably just keep making their gas guzzing giants till they are completely irrelevant and ask for another govt bail out, since they are "too big to fail" Then make some piss poor attempt at sticking an electric drive train in every 20 year old chassis model they have.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:41 · Score: 0

Asian car makers won't exist after the first nuclear world war.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:58 · Score: 0

Musk didn't set up Tesla, he was an early investor who forced out the founders.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 21:06 · Score: 0

Thats right cause Kim's 1st nuclear warhead in the air will probably blow up within a few miles of launch and all of Asia will be f*cked. While Trump's war heads are on the way and finish off the carnage.
Re:Crowded Market? by stealth_finger · 2018-09-17 22:03 · Score: 1

The Jaguar I-PACE looks to be a better car than the equivalent Tesla.
Looks ugly as fuck! It might be a better car, I wouldn't know but can you imagine sitting in that thing thinking you're all smug with out realising what a massive twat you look?! Not that teslas are much different mind.

--
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Re:Crowded Market? by AmiMoJo · 2018-09-17 23:38 · Score: 1

Yeah but that's true of all Jaguars. It's impossible to drive one without looking like a smug git.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Crowded Market? by froggyjojodaddy · 2018-09-17 23:50 · Score: 1

Jeremy Clarkson and James May said it best. Jaguar drivers have a reputation of being cads or a bit 'caddish'. They can change the shape, marketing, pitch etc of their products but most people look at jaaaaag drivers and think, "I bet he/she is up to no good"
Re:Crowded Market? by cleavet · 2018-09-18 00:53 · Score: 2

...It's the affordable end of the market that is exciting.
Agree completely. I took a long drive in a Chevy Bolt earlier this summer, and fielded quite a few questions when I stopped at rest areas with fast chargers. There's a lot of curiosity about the technology out there--thanks, no doubt, to Musk and Tesla. Those manufacturers that are able to deliver a capable base model and charging solution that's accessible to the mass market will win this emerging market.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 03:27 · Score: 0

My old boss had a Jaguar and he was fine. The car, not so much. Nicely appointed but ended up in the shop a LOT.
Re:Crowded Market? by Zorro · 2018-09-18 03:31 · Score: 1

Still a Korean car.
AKA your basic POS.
Re:Crowded Market? by kamapuaa · 2018-09-18 04:54 · Score: 1

The iPace gets good reviews and I'll have a look when the local dealer gets one, but it's a much smaller car than the X for just $10k less.
Personally I want to buy an new electric luxury SUV, I like how electrics drive and not going to gas stations is a bonus. iPace is interesting (although for most people an X would be more appealing), but the EV cars coming out from BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are compact SUVs that fall quite a bit short of the X.

--
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:12 · Score: 0

I've got a 2013 Hyundai Veloster right now and it is the most poorly engineered vehicle I have EVER owned. Plastic pins, plastic fasteners, bad tolerances on parts, no suspension, laughably bad ergonomics, anemic motor, and the hood pops halfway up when I cross a railroad track. I got it cheap from an auction after losing my prior car (a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire) and I hate it. If I could even remotely afford something else it would be gone in a heartbeat. Back in the 90s and early 2000s I drove a Geo Metro (for 10 years) and it was far superior to the Veloster.
Re:Crowded Market? by MachineShedFred · 2018-09-18 06:34 · Score: 1

Announced, not shipping, not available in any way for any amount of money.
"looks to be better" is not actually better unless it exists. Let's see Jag, Audi, etc. actually start selling them. Right now they are vapor being pumped out to try to freeze the market.

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Re:Crowded Market? by theweatherelectric · 2018-09-18 11:53 · Score: 1

Announced, not shipping, not available in any way for any amount of money.
The I-PACE is available now. You can see pricing on the Jaguar USA and Jaguar UK sites, for example. You should book a test drive.
Re:Crowded Market? by theweatherelectric · 2018-09-18 11:55 · Score: 1

Actual Jaguar UK link.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 21:06 · Score: 0

Hi, Toad.
Re:Crowded Market? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 21:20 · Score: 0

So, exactly like Tesla.

I am stupid ! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:21 · Score: 0

I actually believed Elon Musk when he said Saudi was going to help delisting Tesla

Re:I am stupid ! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:58 · Score: 0

We told you so, Rei.

first by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:37 · Score: 0

first post... it looks ALOT like a Tesla

Re:Jihad by CaffeinatedBacon · 2018-09-17 19:47 · Score: 1

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

WAR ON TRADE? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:48 · Score: 0

World War V. Winner takes all. Loser forever to have small dicks. Need I say more. Need I say more.

Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 19:52 · Score: 0

That could've been done a long long time now with remote control, and probably it's easier than to try to make a self driving car hit anything intentionally.

Don't invest in American businesses by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:00 · Score: 0

they will just take your money and run. That one billion dollars will never see any return.

I smell a rat by blind+biker · 2018-09-17 20:09 · Score: 1

The overwhelmingly most important source of income of Saudi Arabia, by a ridiculously huge margin, is crude oil exports. And the overwhelming majority of crude oil is used for gasoline production.

Let us be realistic for a moment: oil production is the #1 strategic concern of Saudi Arabia, and electric cars are their anathema.

--
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.

Re:I smell a rat by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:15 · Score: 0

Yep.
They know that change is coming and that their days in oil are counted.
They have to adapt or die.
Re:I smell a rat by Barsteward · 2018-09-17 20:18 · Score: 4, Informative

"oil production is the #1 strategic concern of Saudi Arabia, and electric cars are their anathema."
yes, oil currently is their no #1, but they are pouring money into renewables, they see the future better than Trump

https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

--
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Re:I smell a rat by Xest · 2018-09-17 21:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

No, Saudi Arabia got a shock when oil dropped from $120 per barrel down to around $30 per barrel in 2014 as it plunged their economy into deficit. This gave them a massive wake up call and created a realisation that they can't depend on oil forever.
They were surprisingly smart, where most countries such as the UK and Russia have squandered their oil wealth with nothing to show for it, other countries like Norway set up a sovereign wealth fund to see them into the future. Saudi Arabia is taking this approach of forward thinking too, and planning for the future whilst it has oil wealth, rather than waiting until the oil wealth runs out then thinking "Right, now what?" when it's ultimately too late.
This decision to plan for the future has been cemented into reality in a number of very visible ways, from using it's massive investment fund to start focussing on future tech that will only grow in value going forward such as renewables and electric cars, by strengthening it's base economy through simple things such as liberalising it's approach to women. A key realisation was that the Saudi economy could literally double in size by allowing the half of it's population that are not currently allowed to work on equal terms to do so. It will be a long process as it requires changing attitudes when there are still very dangerous hard liners in the country but we've already seen some fairly big leaps towards it, such as allowing women to drive, and allowing women to make up over 30% of the ruling council, which interestingly is a better male-female ratio than most Western democracies. When only 50% of your working age population are allowed to work, enabling the other 50% to do so as a way to obtain a quick, easy, future proof, baseline economic boost is really a no brainer.
Furthermore, we've seen things such as purges of the corrupt elite to drive corruption out the economy, which can have severe consequences as we see in Russia - where Russia has masses of natural resource wealth, it gets filtered off into Swiss and Cayman bank accounts of only a handful of individuals to the detriment of the wider and long term health of the country. In fact, the only reason Russia with all it's potential isn't a wealthy modern economy across the vast majority of it's territory and has massive pockets of 3rd world levels of poverty is almost entirely because of corruption - even where economic mismanagement is a problem, such mismanagement usually occurs precisely to aid corruption.
So it's fairly clear that Saudi Arabia is one of a few countries that gets that oil isn't going to be around forever, and that is liberalising it's economy to cater to the realisation of that fact in many ways, from more forward thinking investments, to enfranchising women, to tackling corruption. It's likely Saudi Arabia will always be, or at least for the next few decades a fairly conservative country, but that doesn't appear to be a complete barrier now to modernising their nation as it has been for the last few decades, oil is no longer king, precisely because they saw how badly oil as a dependency can let them down in 2014.
Don't assume countries can't change and that because they were dependent on oil that they'll always be dependent on oil, Saudi Arabia is undergoing a very silent, but very rapid change to make sure that it's secure even if oil prices collapse. They've still got a lot of work to do, but the trajectory should be abundantly clear to anyone paying attention to the changes the country has undergone over the last few years.
Re:I smell a rat by Errol+backfiring · 2018-09-17 22:30 · Score: 2

Well, geography was not my primary interest at school, but I think Saudi Arabia gets a nice amount of sunshine. As the world divests from oil, they sure can divert the investments into solar energy.
I think oil products won't get away entirely. Plastics can still be the best things to use in sterile environments (operating rooms), or in aeronautical structures. But throwing plastic away into the ocean or even burning oil as fuel will be an increasingly stupid idea.

--
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Re:I smell a rat by angel'o'sphere · 2018-09-17 23:50 · Score: 2

Saudi arabia and other Arabic countries are "changing" since decades.
Just look at in what companies they invest. In the 1970s "Mercedes Benz" was divided up into "Daimler Benz" and "Mercedes Benz" just so that one company owns the other one, but the stocks in that company had no votes on the other one. That was done because out of fear that specifically Saudi Arabia would by to much stock in German companies and would control them.
SA and the other Arabs own 'half the world' already, an no one pays attention.

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:I smell a rat by cascadingstylesheet · 2018-09-18 00:50 · Score: 1

by strengthening it's base economy through simple things such as liberalising it's approach to women. A key realisation was that the Saudi economy could literally double in size by allowing the half of it's population that are not currently allowed to work on equal terms to do so. {...} When only 50% of your working age population are allowed to work, enabling the other 50% to do so as a way to obtain a quick, easy, future proof, baseline economic boost is really a no brainer.
That's an interesting point of view. Doubling the workforce without doubling the jobs is a huge economic boost?
I'm not sure that, say, the 1970s in the US (when cultural change pushed women en masse into the workforce) really bear that out.
Re:I smell a rat by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · 2018-09-18 01:21 · Score: 2

No, Saudi Arabia got a shock when oil dropped from $120 per barrel down to around $30 per barrel in 2014 as it plunged their economy into deficit.
No, Saudi Arabia didn't "get a shock". Saudi Arabia engineered the price drop so that the shale oil development would die.
Re:I smell a rat by cheesybagel · 2018-09-18 01:45 · Score: 1

You provide a quick production boost, on paper, yes, but then you ruin your economics in the long run as you get close to negative birth rates. What it means is that what used to be not a part of the economy like child care, etc, becomes a business and then it starts showing up on GDP numbers as people get a salary.
Re:I smell a rat by cheesybagel · 2018-09-18 01:52 · Score: 1

Global productivity improved for sure, but because more people got into the labor market the salaries got cut in half. At the same time women don't have time to either do household tasks or to take care of children. So family sizes decrease.
Re:I smell a rat by iampiti · 2018-09-18 03:26 · Score: 1

Your comment was pretty interesting. Now, if you hadn't managed to misspell "its" every single time it'd been even better :P
Re:I smell a rat by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:12 · Score: 0

It didn't work too well for them thanks to Fracking. Hence the 'shock'
Re:I smell a rat by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · 2018-09-18 05:19 · Score: 1

Actually, it didn't work out well for them because they are not very smart. But they would not be in this headline (and the Tesla ones) if they were.
Re: I smell a rat by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:46 · Score: 0

This post was brought to you by the Saudi Arabian PR lobby. Enjoy!
Re:I smell a rat by HornWumpus · 2018-09-18 08:02 · Score: 1

They desperately want to take ARAMCO public, then really diversify. But have to keep delaying it as they know their price would currently be laughed out of the room.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'

a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by aepervius · 2018-09-17 20:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

Since when firm which have not yet even engineered a car , much less have a prototype may "give tsla a run for their money" ?

Emphasis mine

Lucid is planning a new high-performance electric car. It said the investment from Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund announced Monday will allow it to finish engineering on its first car, the Lucid Air, as well as build a factory in Casa Grande, Arizona, and begin to sell the car by 2020. Saudi Arabia is already a big investor in Tesla. Last month Tesla CEO Elon Musk disclosed that the Saudis had taken nearly a 5% stake in his electric car company.

--
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org

Established players vs Start ups by aberglas · 2018-09-17 20:14 · Score: 3, Interesting

Unlike the early days of cars there are many established car companies in the game. It takes a lot of expertise and supply chain management to build a car. You need to know a lot about robots, labour, etc.

Ossified management has allowed startups to dominate when technology changes if the barrier is not too high. So all the newspapers ceded their classified adds to ebay et. al. Nokia to Apple. Big retailers to Amazon. TV networks to Netflix. None of those things should have happened, the established players should have dominated, but did not.

On the other hand, Webvan died for delivering groceries ordered on line, here in Oz they are delivered by the big supermarket chains, Coles and Woolworths. It was easier to add a web site to a supermarket than to add a supermarket to a web site.

I'd bet pennies to pounds that electric cars will be like supermarkets. The established players will dominate. It is an incremental improvement for them. And many are already there, e.g. the Leaf, Prius.

Telsa is toast.

OTOH self driving car AI is likely to come from someone other than the big car manufacturers. But they will buy it from the third party. Might be Google. If Apple try to build the cars rather than just the software, they will become irrelevant.

Re:Established players vs Start ups by Spamalope · 2018-09-17 20:35 · Score: 1

More likely the established players will 'Tucker' them by arranging for legislation/regulatory oversight that disadvantages only the newcomers. At the moment I think they're content to let Tesla trail blaze and be the one hemorrhaging money. And testing the waters for consumer acceptance of cars that can be remotely bricked by the manufacturer.
That'll be happening across the board if they figure a critical mass has been reached. As is they're trying the boil the frog approach to do the same thing. (more and more has a chip, and they're DRM locked to a specific car - no swapping chipped parts and no 3rd party parts as the dealer has to 'bless' the new parts or they'll be rejected)

So the question is, does Tesla hit the critical mass for political influence before (and assuming) they're a real market-share threat. Elon's other ventures may help that, or be a noose. (regulatory approval for SpaceX threatened unless Tesla stops competing with rival in Senator/congressman's district or the like - it'd be interesting if Tesla can dominate the battery production side and be in the catbird seat that way)
Re:Established players vs Start ups by cleavet · 2018-09-18 00:38 · Score: 1

It was easier to add a web site to a supermarket than to add a supermarket to a web site.
Heh, I'm going to have to remember this turn of phrase...
Re:Established players vs Start ups by MachineShedFred · 2018-09-18 06:44 · Score: 1

And yet several industry analysts are saying that Tesla doesn't have any credible competition until at least 2020 and that Tesla's lead in EV technology may last far longer than anyone thought after an underwhelming product announcement from Audi.
Maybe making an EV that actually works is hard, and the big auto makers can't slap one together at the last minute?

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Re: Established players vs Start ups by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 08:41 · Score: 0

the long term play for Tesla may be the buildout of the Supercharger network rather than its cars... Tesla is dead if it closes or sells off the Supercharger network.
Re:Established players vs Start ups by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 11:58 · Score: 0

The Leaf seems pretty good, I know someone that is happy with theirs.

Funding Secured! by BBF_BBF · 2018-09-17 20:17 · Score: 1

I guess it's "Funding Secured" for real this time. Only it's not for Tesla, but it's "only" 1 Billion.

Re:Jihad by CrimsonAvenger · 2018-09-17 20:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Has anyone considered a possible ulterior motive? Imagine if the jihadis got ahold of self-driving vehicles.

"electric car" is NOT synonymous with "self-driving car". Yes, you can have a self-driving gasoline-engine car. Yes, the jihadis could use one of those, too....

--

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Great choice by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 20:44 · Score: 0

Support a pot-smoking idiot or a bunch of terrorists.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by mentil · 2018-09-17 21:27 · Score: 1

Finishing engineering, building a factory, and bringing a car to market in only 2 years seems overly optimistic, as well. By then the Tesla Roadster 2020 will be out.

--
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.

Chinese investments in Lucid by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 21:43 · Score: 0

Lucid Motors, even though is based in SF Bay Area and calls itself "American Automotive company" is invested by the Chinese government. Its chief investors are Tsing Capital (the clean energy arm of Tsinghua holdings, the holding company of Chinese government), LeEco (another Chinese venture capital firm).

Perhaps, they've figured that it is easy to hold the IP of such smart/autonomous cars within the purview of Chinese government. It also plays well with the Saudi way of working without transparency, which a US-publicly traded company like Tesla cannot provide.

Tesla made an attempt to go private, primarily to become less transparent and to be able to solicit funds from opaque regimes (viz., Saudi, China, and other mid-east countries).

This might appear to be an indicator that Tesla might not go private after all.

This is an example of what it wrong with societ... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 22:07 · Score: 0

Instead of working together for the betterment of all, Rich a-holes compete for who has the largest genitals in an attempt to make even more money.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 22:08 · Score: 0

Finishing engineering, building a factory, and bringing a car to market in only 2 years seems overly optimistic, as well.

These people have extensive engineering and manufacturing experience. Two years doesn't seem at all optimistic.

By then the Tesla Roadster 2020 will be out.

Who says? Musk? Where are those 500,000 Model 3s to be made at the end of this year? Where's the semi?

Musk squandered his lead in EVs and now many others are jumping into the market. And Musk couldn't make money when he had control of the market; which means with others coming in, he's going to have a much harder time. Profitable Q3 and on? Pffft! I'll believe it when I see it.

And let's also remember, the other companies have already engineered their cars, built battery plants and already have the manufacturing capacity.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by Daralantan · 2018-09-17 22:29 · Score: 2

I was mostly wondering why it even bothered with the "To give Tesla a run for it's money" line. It's like someone just needed to have the article related to Tesla somehow.

I mean I guess they are the electric car only company, but still seems a bit silly to go ahead and say that.

so basically by Kokuyo · 2018-09-17 22:32 · Score: 3, Funny

This company has only slighty better chances at being Tesla's rival as I.

Man, I hate the news these days...

Re:so basically by SCVonSteroids · 2018-09-18 05:23 · Score: 1

Do you have a billion dollars of funding to start with?

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Re:so basically by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-09-18 08:01 · Score: 1

his company has only slighty better chances at being Tesla's rival as I.
Assuming you are personally a billionaire willing to invest everything you own in electric cars, yes.

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You do realize... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 22:36 · Score: 0

You doe realize that many people knock Tesla because of their joke of a CEO. There is more than enough justification to point to that clown and knock the company.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 23:00 · Score: 0

lol who else built a battery plant? what a delusional twirp

They aren't Americans. They know oil runs out! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 23:06 · Score: 0

They barely have any left since a few years ago.
The big states of the world are creating alternatives left and right, because they know it too.
The Saudis started to move away from oil quite some time ago, to make sure they'll not go back to a meaningless backwater stone age desert.
Only a few certain Americans still act like oil (and uranium (and money to take from people to grow profit)) is magically infinite.

Re:Kavanaugh by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 23:07 · Score: 0

A "pick"? Like an ice pick? Or a guitar pick?

supercar, oh please... by sad_ · 2018-09-17 23:07 · Score: 2

we don't need another supercar, we need electric cars for normal people.
they should be cheap to produce right? we don't need sub 2 seconds acceleration, or +300km/h top speed.
just make it good enough to replace your regular current petrol car, i'm even willing to cut off some 100km of range, but;

- it needs to be afforable
- be practical (no silly sci-fi looking impractical car)

The Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Ioniq almost have me sold, i just need a bigger boot (ie a station wagon, thank you!).

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Re:supercar, oh please... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:07 · Score: 0

Because the battery alone costs as much as a typical low cost ICE car. Add in the body and you are in lux car pricing. Even the bolt is 35K. You could get an equivalent for 18K in ICE.
Re:supercar, oh please... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:22 · Score: 0

I just want something with around 300HP, gets 300 or more miles to a full charge, and still looks like a nice regular car with a proper dashboard and controls rather than some touchscreen nonsense. I'd be all over an electric version of my Lexus IS350.
Re:supercar, oh please... by fluffernutter · 2018-09-18 02:06 · Score: 1

You probably also want to be able to launch it many, many times and still get 300 miles.

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Re:supercar, oh please... by LynnwoodRooster · 2018-09-18 02:50 · Score: 1

As Tesla is finally starting to realize, the hard part about building an electric car is not the electric part, but the car part. When the existing car manufacturers determine it is finally economically viable to build electric cars, they will wash the startups (Tesla, Faraday Future, and others) away. It's the car that matters, the method of propulsion is a distant second.

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Re:supercar, oh please... by drinkypoo · 2018-09-18 03:15 · Score: 2

As Tesla is finally starting to realize, the hard part about building an electric car is not the electric part, but the car part.
Tesla has always realized this, which is why their first car was basically a repowered Lotus. And they've already become good at making cars, which is why there's thousands of dollars of profit in every Model 3.

When the existing car manufacturers determine it is finally economically viable to build electric cars, they will wash the startups (Tesla, Faraday Future, and others) away.
They are all making EVs, and all of the ones they have released so far are inferior to a Tesla, and none of them are profitable.

It's the car that matters, the method of propulsion is a distant second.
The method of propulsion informs the design of the entire vehicle. They go hand in hand.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:supercar, oh please... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 03:27 · Score: 0

just make it good enough to replace your regular current petrol car
This, the arabs don't want to do. At least, not for now.
Re:supercar, oh please... by LynnwoodRooster · 2018-09-18 06:09 · Score: 1

And they've already become good at making cars, which is why there's thousands of dollars of profit in every Model 3.
False. Tesla loses about $17,000 on every car they sell, overall. If you take gross profit and subtract SG&A (selling general & administrative - costs required to actually sell and deliver a vehicle) they lose about $4000 per car. That's not including R&D or even interest on the debt required to build those cars and facilities in the first place.

They are all making EVs, and all of the ones they have released so far are inferior to a Tesla, and none of them are profitable.
Inferior - in your opinion. And the fact EVs are not profitable (including Teslas - or are you now stating that Tesla is not profitable, even though you said otherwise above?) should give pause to the industry. EVs aren't there because you cannot afford to actually make them.

The method of propulsion informs the design of the entire vehicle. They go hand in hand.
False. Witness basically every EV on the market. They are designed remarkably similar to existing cars. Well, at least those built by profitable car companies (meaning - not Tesla).

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Re:supercar, oh please... by drinkypoo · 2018-09-18 10:05 · Score: 1

False. Witness basically every EV on the market. They are designed remarkably similar to existing cars.
So are Teslas.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2018-09-17 23:15 · Score: 1

other companies have already engineered their cars, built battery plants

A list of car companies with their battery plants would be nice if you're making such claims.

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Ezekiel 23:20

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by AmiMoJo · 2018-09-17 23:36 · Score: 2

They do actually have a working prototype. MKBHD drove it: https://youtu.be/jbXEWi-OK4o

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Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-17 23:50 · Score: 0

other companies have already engineered their cars, built battery plants

A list of car companies with their battery plants would be nice if you're making such claims.

Like this Or this Or this Or this

And keep in mind those articles are a couple of years old. The other car companies just don't blab and have publicists that inflate their CEO's and company's reputation like Musk does.

Tesla fanboys live in a bubble and know nothing of the auto-industry or its trends. They believe all the hype and Musk's bullshit.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by froggyjojodaddy · 2018-09-17 23:58 · Score: 1

Just watched the Youtube video. There are definite shades of the Model S to the car and that's not a bad thing. I love the styling and the interior. The glass windshield/roof is pretty amazing

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2018-09-18 00:11 · Score: 1

So basically, "look into China in the future". Well that's good for future China, I guess. Bummer, since I live in Europe.

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Ezekiel 23:20

AUdi by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:32 · Score: 0

You forgot Audi.

In the next few years, expect EVs to come down in price significantly. The Chevy Bolt is doing quite well, BTW and that isn't priced like a luxury car. The Nissan Leaf is also doing well and Nissan's new battery plants are up to speed.

2019 will be interesting and 2020 will be the year of the EV.

Tesla will probably be in receivership by then.

Should Apple be interested? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 01:32 · Score: 0

Especially if it has a aluminium body is powered by lithium batteries and has apps. I mean it has Air in it's name right?

Alternate possible future for Tesla and electric by MobyDisk · 2018-09-18 01:46 · Score: 1

These announcements about electric car investments mean that big players are scared that Tesla might succeed in shifting the market. The shareholders want a plan. For now, these announcements are probably mostly PR. But if Tesla can hang on a few years, then even if the company dies it might spring up an entire electric car industry simply by scaring other players into investing. So ultimately the human race wins even if Tesla Motors dies.

ALTERNATE FUTURE: Tesla becomes a company that sells solar panels, builds batteries, and runs an electric car charging network. We all drive electric cars built by Toyota, Volkswagon, Ford, etc. We all win here too, and Tesla doesn't even need to make cars.

Execution by sjbe · 2018-09-18 01:56 · Score: 2

The thing with Tesla is that.. they don't really have any special technology.

Neither does Coca Cola - nothing special about carbonated sugar water - but that doesn't mean they cannot succeed. It's all about execution. And when it comes to electric vehicles to date Tesla has been out executing pretty much everyone. That's not to say they have any sort of insurmountable advantage - they don't. But the incumbent auto makers sleep on Tesla at their own peril. Tesla is vertically integrated, has a fantastically popular brand, products people are willing to wait literally years for, the best electric vehicle technology on the market, patents (even if they don't use them aggressively), and a visionary leader. Yes they still might shit the bed but I'm not about to bet against them at this point.

They just sold it at a price that didn't make any fucking sense for them to be doing, since they were selling all production(supposedly) and still losing money(even after one time book shenigans).

Yeah, yeah... People made the same short sighted argument about Amazon back in the day. While I wouldn't buy Tesla's stock at the current price and they definitely aren't on solid financial ground yet, they also have a long term strategy that if it works will pay off very handsomely. They didn't make money because they were aggressively investing in future products to grow bigger instead of remaining a boutique maker of high end cars - ala Ferrari. This was a calculated gamble by Tesla but there is a good chance it will actually work. They probably could have made money on the Model S but they had larger ambitions. Nothing wrong with that.

Why do american car companies insist on building stuff people can't afford anyways en masse? don't they realize that 80 000 dollar + cars are an extreme luxury, just because they live rich themselves?

What are you talking about? Tesla sells a tiny of the cars sold every year in the US and almost everyone who buys one can definitely afford it. They sell in numbers comparable to other luxury car maker for similar products. Tesla has less than 1.5% market share in the US.

Re:Execution by Green+Mountain+Bot · 2018-09-18 03:53 · Score: 1

The thing with Tesla is that.. they don't really have any special technology.
Neither does Coca Cola - nothing special about carbonated sugar water - but that doesn't mean they cannot succeed. It's all about marketing.
Fixed it for you.

Price needs to reflect inconvienence by fluffernutter · 2018-09-18 02:08 · Score: 1

Most people aren't going to buy electric cars until charging stations are as quick and cheap as gas or until they are much lower in price than an average ICE. I don't care if it can be charged in a garage overnight; once you go out, you're exposed to inconvenience and a time commitment to find a charging station and wait for it to charge.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.

Gross margins by sjbe · 2018-09-18 02:08 · Score: 2

Tesla are making about 30% on their cars

No they are not. You referenced a cost estimate of gross margin on their cars which is a bunch of educated guesses by outside cost accountants without access to actual cost data. These sorts of reports are useful but you should be careful reading too much into them. What is undeniably useful is the public financial statements each company has to put out which gives a good basis for comparison.

Gross margin for a company like Toyota (one of the more profitable big auto companies) hovers around 18-20% which is pretty good for what they do. Tesla's gross margin is similar but more volatile but low by the standards of luxury car makers. Bear in mind that Tesla sells no cars in the lower end of the market where margins are tighter while Toyota sells quite a few. Compare with a high margin manufacturer like Ferrari which has gross margins around 50% and Tesla doesn't look so special. Tesla might have a lot of room to improve gross margins but they aren't getting gross margins wildly better than many of their competitors.

Disclosure: I'm a certified accountant.

Dependence on oil? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 02:41 · Score: 0

"Saudi Arabia is investing in electric vehicles to diversify away from its dependence on oil"???? What is this? A joke? More logical may be that they want to push away the electric car startups or Tesla in particular? so they can sell oil which is their only income?

Elon Musk must NOT share power! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 02:46 · Score: 0

IMHO:
What Elon Musk really needs to do, is to SLOWDOWN his business deals, so he can reduce his own workload!
Sharing Tesla company management with anyone else, on the other hand, would be a career suicide for him and the end of Tesla, just like the big rivals want/plan/try!

Or convenience? by lamer01 · 2018-09-18 02:47 · Score: 1

For a home owner with a garage having the option to charge overnight and never having to visit another gas station is a huge plus

Re:Or convenience? by fluffernutter · 2018-09-18 09:38 · Score: 1

It's fine if you only go to work and back; but hardly anyone does that. People don't want to be scrambling for a place to charge just because they decide to go to a store on the other side of town after work.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by LynnwoodRooster · 2018-09-18 02:48 · Score: 1

Well - no one yet. Oh, you were referring to the Panasonic factory near Reno that Tesla invested in?

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Oil barons, put tesla out by p51d007 · 2018-09-18 03:20 · Score: 1

of business, then once they control it, stop producing them, and it will take a decade or more for someone else to design and bring one to market, more OIL money ;)

Saudi Arabia is still a totalitarian dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 03:52 · Score: 0

Yet for all that "smartness" Saudi Arabia is still a totalitarian dictatorship with some of the worst human and civil rights on the planet and they have been exporting terror and regional instability for the last three decades.

Just happens they can afford a very good US based PR effort and to buy lots of US weapons with all that oil. No US company should be trumpeting major investments by the Saudis any more than they would investment by North Korea.

Signalling the end of petroleum by Rick+Schumann · 2018-09-18 04:25 · Score: 1

If Saudi Arabia of all places is investing that much in an electric car company, then is that signalling that even they, whose wealth has depended on oil production, are acknowledging that the oil won't flow forever, and in fact will become scarce within our lifetime? Makes you think.

Re:Signalling the end of petroleum by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-09-18 08:04 · Score: 1

Saudi Arabia has acknowledged for many decades oil wealth won't last forever. They've been pretty good at using a large chunk of oil money to buy assets in other countries. It let's them diversify, without modifying their country too much,
Essentially, they treat the entire nation's economy like you treat your working life... have a few decades to live on/amass a nest egg, then live on interest.

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Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 05:46 · Score: 0

Lol, lauding the extensive engineering and manufacturing experience of some mysterious new nobody who showed up on the scene, and the downplaying Musk's ability to deliver on electric cars. What a twisted dream world you live in.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2018-09-18 06:06 · Score: 0

Comment removed based on user account deletion

More Saudi PEDOS by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 06:39 · Score: 0

Quick Elon use your PEDO detector and tell us which of those investors are PEDOS you pot-smoking genius!

Wake me up when energy density improves by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 07:26 · Score: 0

Electric cars suck. They are constrained by battery energy density. That may change in 10 years, but today, it's a stupid purchase for all but the mindless status-seeking crowd. Just do the math... if tesla folds, the cars are JUNK. Why would any sane person risk that?

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by HornWumpus · 2018-09-18 08:06 · Score: 1

Glass roofs were tried in the 1950s. They require triple sized ACs, a deal breaker on an electric car.

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Snooze by Not-a-Neg · 2018-09-18 08:22 · Score: 1

Wake me up when someone makes the Geo Metro of electric cars. Affordable with incredible mileage. No stupid computer in the console gimmicky crap, no GPS, no remote start, AC and electrical windows optional.

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Re:Snooze by samwichse · 2018-09-26 04:26 · Score: 1

I got you covered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Li by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 08:47 · Score: 0

There is only so much lithium, similar to coal, also the problem with renewables is that you have to keep renewing them ...

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-09-18 14:58 · Score: 0

Aren't glass roofs standard on a model 3? Materials might have improved since 1950.

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by HornWumpus · 2018-09-19 05:44 · Score: 1

It's an option. Search a little and you'll find that heat is an issue. They had tinted glass in 1950 already.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'

Re:a bit too quick to declare it a rival. by samwichse · 2018-09-26 04:23 · Score: 1

I do love T-tops...

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Saudi Arabia Invests $1 Billion In Potential Tesla Rival (cnn.com)

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