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Rice University Says Middle-Class And Low-Income Students Won't Have To Pay Tuition (npr.org)

Rice University is "dramatically expanding" its financial aid offerings, promising full scholarships to undergrads whose families have income under $130,000. NPR reports: The school says it wants to reduce student debt -- and make it easier for students from low-income families to attend. "Talent deserves opportunity," Rice President David Leebron said while announcing the plan on Tuesday. The full scholarships are earmarked for students whose families have income between $65,000 and $130,000. Below that level, the university will not only cover tuition but also provide grants to cover students' room and board, along with any other fees. Another part of the program will help students whose family income surpasses the maximum: If their family's income is between $130,000 and $200,000, they can still get grants covering at least half of their tuition.

250 comments

  1. 130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That seems strange to me.

    1. Re: 130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's below the poverty line in the bay area.

    2. Re:130,000 is low-income? by will_die · · Score: 1

      According to IRS figures, middle income ends at around $121,000. However, the DNC and then Obama used the figured of $250,000 for the top of middle income. President Trump has been using a figure below $200,000.

    3. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      That seems strange to me.

      When you have three kids; even in a low-cost-of-living area... it's a tight income.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Did you miss the part where they included the middle class?
      $130k is upper middle class, though the precise bounds are rather poorly defined. Pew Research defines middle class as people making between 2/3s to double the median U.S. income, which gives a range of about $42k to $135k

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    5. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      For schools like these it basically means you are dirt poor. I'm actually surprised Rice didn't already have a program like this as so many other schools like them do.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    6. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Class as income is asinine, though.

      You can make $50k/year and be in a much better financial situation than some dumbass making $100k/year in the Bay Area.

      But of course, if you look at actual assets, you make the rich paranoid and the "middle class" angry when they find out they're not.

    7. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for having children, who I'm sure will benefit society into the future.
      I hope they are a great blessing to you and your community.
      Parenting is tough, and $130K certainly doesn't equate to an extravagant amount, but hang in there!

      (Just getting in before all the "keep it in your pants" posters, I also have 3 wonderful kids and am sick of being berated for it).

    8. Re:130,000 is low-income? by DarkRookie · · Score: 1

      See. There is the problem. Should've stay with the 0 kids.

      --
      The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    9. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      True, but wealth is a lot harder to measure accurately, and estimates paint such a bleak picture that nobody but the rich wants to look at it - and they'd just as soon the rest of us avoided looking as well.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    10. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your parents should have?

    11. Re:130,000 is low-income? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      $130k is upper middle class, though the precise bounds are rather poorly defined.

      Are you sure? What if someone makes $130k one year, but netted -$100k the previous year due to medical expenses, and all the money essentially has to go to pay debt?

      Maybe they are permanently disabled and the $130k in income came from a one-time sale of property.

      Income does not directly materialize into a class or way of living ---- Although $130k or more a year average maintained for 10 years is probably upper class in most cases..

    12. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, there are *always* exceptions to any rule. But as a general rule most people's incomes don't change much from year to year. Assets might make a better guideline, but given the skill of the wealthy in hiding assets, and the fact that there's no accepted authority for measuring them (unlike the IRS for income), it can be difficult to gauge accurately.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    13. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I wont berate you for it. Just stop expecting me to help pay for them and stop telling me to forgo small luxuries because they damage the planet that I wont be around to need.

      If everybody in my country turned barren tomorrow I'd be just fine with that.

    14. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only your parents had your attitude, we'd all be better off!

    15. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      When tuition, room and board, and supplies cost $63k per year, yeah $130k is a fair cut-off.

    16. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      See. There is the problem. Should've stay with the 0 kids.

      Perhaps that would have been wiser... but if everyone had 0 kids who would fund your social security and take care of you when you're old.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    17. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its also really hard to determine what an asset is *worth*, even if you were to tax it. Let's take a few examples from some lives of friends:
      1 - I bought a house for $180K in 2009. I lived in for 8 years until 2017. I paid it off in 2014. What was it worth in 2015? The county thought that it was worth $121K, which was its taxable assessed value. Similar houses were selling for $210K. It avoided about $15K of expenses for me, being paid off. Is it worth $15K/year of expense avoidance? $5K/year of average appreciation? $121K in taxable value? $210K of market value? $8.5K in if-it-was-sold-and-the-money-was-invested-and-safely-withdrawn? The IRS answers this question simply - didn't sell, no income.

      2 - My father bought a gold brick. He bought it for $50K on the belief that the value of gold would increase. It did not. It went to $35K. What is the brick worth? $35K? $50K? Gold prices the following year valued the brick at $60K. Did he make $25K? 10K? The IRS answers this question simply - he did not sell and did not have gold-brick-related-income.

      3 - My step-grandmother has a house. She signed the housing deed over, under temporary contract, to a rental company. The asset is in the name of the rental company for a period of 3 years. They send her $1K/month, guaranteed. Does she own a house? Once again, the IRS answers this question simply - the $1K is taxable.

      4 - A friend of mine has significant assets tied up in startups. His portfolio has immense value, but he is personally broke. He barely has enough money to cover the rent each month.

    18. Re:130,000 is low-income? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      There are places that institute a wealth tax, so obviously it's possible to do. I would suggest a general rule is "if you sold it today, what would it be worth"

      1) Sounds like your house is severely under-appraised and you're illegally dodging property taxes
      2) Your father's brick was worth $50k when he bought it, $35k today, and who knows how much tomorrow. Wealth fluctuates - deal with it.
      3) Your sister is either in possession of a house of known approximate value, or in possession of a contract entitling her to receive said house in the near future - either one is worth the value of the house.
      4) Your friend isn't broke, he just doesn't have liquid assets - wealth doesn't care about that. If we paid wealth taxes he would have screwed up badly - he'd have to liquidate some of his assets at a potentially severe loss to pay his taxes.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    19. Re:130,000 is low-income? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      4) Your friend isn't broke, he just doesn't have liquid assets - wealth doesn't care about that. If we paid wealth taxes he would have screwed up badly

      What should happen is the payability of the illiquid earnings/extra gains from invested portfolio assets should be delayed to provide reasonable forbearance for the taxpayer and encourage such investments. Wealth tax on the value portfolio assets had at the time acquired or purchased should be due and payable immediately, and the company handling the transfer could
      (you had to have that amount of actual cash or worth something that much to acquire, But if you hold appreciated startup stock
      -- the tax on extra value due to appreciation should be reportable every year as a "Speculative tax liability incurred with payment
      deferred", That does not become due until you have the right and ability to sell that asset --- If at that time the appreciation has been lost.

      1) Sounds like your house is severely under-appraised and you're illegally dodging property taxes

      The government appraiser may have messed up. Unless the owner took fraudulent actions to cause an understatement of the worth of property to happen -- Its not illegal or tax dodging to own a property that was under appraised, and the gov't itself is essentially responsible for any losses in tax revenue that caused.

      3) Your sister is either in possession of a house of known approximate value, or in possession of a contract

      Temporarily deeding a property away isn't a sale --- her rights to the property automatically resume 3 years from now upon expiration of her deeding away the rights to control it, so she owns the property subject to an encumbrance providing a temporary cessation of her right to use and occupy the property for 3 years, so she could still sell her right to take use of the property after 3 years to someone else if she wanted, AND she owns the contracts she signed with the rental company that are providing her rights to receive certain rent ---- that contract would have a market value in regards to the expected revenue she will get from rents that contract reduced by any expenses she has to pay, expected future depreciation on her property (the loss in value the property will have after 3 years due to renting it out), and some percentage to make up for the risk that the rental company fails to rent out the property and generate the revenue.

  2. How much have ya got? by XanC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The trend lately is for colleges to set a ridiculously high price, then give "everyone" a discount. They're taking as much as they can from everyone. In what other field do companies get away with that? What a scam.

    1. Re:How much have ya got? by DarkRookie · · Score: 1

      Tech companies do it.

      --
      The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    2. Re:How much have ya got? by XanC · · Score: 1

      Although in this case, IIRC, Rice has a big endowment, and tuition isn't very high anyway.

    3. Re:How much have ya got? by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      Seems like a lot of that happens in medicine.

    4. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can thank expanded federal tuition assistance for that. Universities just can't say no to that sweet, sweet federal dough.

    5. Re:How much have ya got? by devjoe · · Score: 1

      Per Rice's web site, $46,600 is the tuition for this year. With fees and room and board the total cost of going to Rice is almost $60k, which is still below the elite schools but it is 6 times what it was when I went there starting in 1989.

    6. Re:How much have ya got? by Paxtez · · Score: 2

      The entire medical system in the US.

    7. Re:How much have ya got? by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 1

      The trend lately is for colleges to set a ridiculously high price, then give "everyone" a discount. They're taking as much as they can from everyone. In what other field do companies get away with that? What a scam.

      Medicine. I'm broke, barely getting by and on food stamps. I also have serious medical problems. The doctors want to charge (for example) $1000, but will likely settle for $100. The hospital is under great scrutiny right now. It is desperate to show how charitable it is. Because I'm on food stamps, they waive fees for almost everything.

      --
      Chaos maximizes locally around me.
    8. Re:How much have ya got? by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      They're taking as much as they can from everyone.

      They're taking what the market will bear - isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?

    9. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So do drug companies I think. Set a ridiculous "market" price, with insurance companies then "negotiating" a lower price for their members.

    10. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so they have determined that those that make 130k can pay 60K cost (46% of pretax dollars made). With State, fed, soc, etc. you can average you lose about 30% of your paycheck at this salary, at least in NY... which means you need to pay 60K out of your 91K (66% of take home income).

      Thats insane.

    11. Re:How much have ya got? by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 2

      Yep. You don't have an insurance carrier? Those lab tests will cost you $350.

      What, you have coverage? Oh, the charge will be $29.95, onto your deductible.

    12. Re:How much have ya got? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Reread TFS.
      $65k income = free tuition plus grants to cover room, board, fees, etc.
      $65k - $130k = free tuition
      $130k - $200k = grants to cover at least half of tuition.
      So they're expecting you to cough up $23k/year, plus living expenses. Maybe not such a good idea to live in the luxury on-campus dorms if you don't come from money though

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    13. Re:How much have ya got? by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried ordering enterprise class hardware from HP, Cisco, Dell, EMC etc.?

      Listprices sre ridiculous but just about anyone gets 40 tp 50 percent off. Depending on the size of your order, your account and whether you're close to the end of their quarter, you can manage 60 percent rebate or more.

    14. Re:How much have ya got? by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      I recently went shopping at national chain clothing store to purchase a few things before going on a trip. Normally I'd just order most of this online, but it was short notice. The store had all kinds of discounts, including a special discount for that day. I think was was getting something like 25% off on top of a usual 50% discount that they offered. Of course when it came time to pay, I found out that I was paying about the same (if not a little bit more) as what I would expect to if I had ordered everything from Amazon.

      The store advertised all of these wonderful discounts, but they just jacked up the price to offset any of these discounts. Apparently this is a common trend and has been for a while. If someone tells you that you're going to give you a discount in this day and age, they're really just pissing in your face while they're telling you it's raining. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out the discount wasn't even close to the best deal available in terms of final cost. It's just a good way to draw in some suckers who think they're savvy for getting such a good deal.

    15. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Protip: You'll probably get a better deal if you tell them you'll just pay them cash. In one particular case I got my $150 co-pay doctor visits knocked down to $80. I just hinted that my insurance was really just for catastrophic stuff, and I'd just pay them cash. For them it was worth $70 to not deal with insurance. You never know until you ask.

      Labs are a little less flexible on their billing, but I wouldn't expect to pay more than $5 or $10 above a co-pay.

    16. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In what other field do companies get away with that?

      That's easy, Healthcare. They charge exorbitant prices to those uninsured and negotiate discounts for those few lucky individuals who are insured. Not to mention that even if you are insured you still have to fight the lawyers to prove it was an eligible expense.

    17. Re:How much have ya got? by shaksys · · Score: 0

      This is actually the reverse. My glasses with insurance were 500$ a pair, the second pair not covered by insurance were 75% off.

    18. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Healthcare does it.

      My wife had surgery over the summer, and it's incredible how much is 'contractual write-off'

    19. Re: How much have ya got? by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      Like stores who know $100 50% off sounds better than $50

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    20. Re:How much have ya got? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Here is a sneaky reality. From the US, countries like Canada and Australia will allow you to pay for your education there, benefit, pass and you can probably snag citizenship at the end of a four year degree and the qualification crosses borders so you get to choose where you live. Have to pay for your education, you might as well make the most of it with dual citizenship in countries with better life styles, just saying. Now if those qualifications are in demand, you will also get a debt and a discount.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    21. Re:How much have ya got? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Wish someone had pointed that out a couple decades ago.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    22. Re:How much have ya got? by foghelmut · · Score: 1

      The trend lately is for colleges to set a ridiculously high price, then give "everyone" a discount. They're taking as much as they can from everyone. In what other field do companies get away with that? What a scam.

      Healthcare.

    23. Re:How much have ya got? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That trend is bolstered by the fact that the US Government to subsidize student loans, so universities increase tuitions because the government will cover the costs, so the sky is the limit.

    24. Re:How much have ya got? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      There's a second reason why they do this: they can make renewing your scholarships depend on maintaining a certain GPA, thus motivating students to keep their grades up, which makes the school's stats look better, which makes more students pick that school.

      And yes, they have different levels. If they think you can do a 3.5, they give you the scholarship that requires you to do so. If they think you probably can't do 3.5 but can handle 3.0, they give you a different scholarship, with a lower renewal requirement. To squeeze out of you all the academic performance you're capable of.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  3. Re:The long fall to Socialism by DarkRookie · · Score: 0

    Cause not educating the poor cause it cost money is the morally right thing to do.

    --
    The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
  4. lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about lowering the actual cost of education to begin with? Maybe a few less new buildings, staff positions, student outreach initiatives...

    1. Re:lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those poor administrators need to go to more conferences... think of the poor overworked administrators.

    2. Re:lower actual cost? by The+Original+CDR · · Score: 1

      Or stop paying univeristy presidents high salaries that rival what CEOs make.

        • 1. Michael Crow, President, Arizona State University $1,554,058
        • 2. William McRaven, Chancellor, University of Texas system $1,500,000
        • 3. John Sharp, Chancellor, Texas A&M University system office, $1,280,438
        • 4. W. Kent Fuchs, President, University of Florida, $1,102,862
        • 5. Michael A. McRobbie, President Indiana University system $1,067,074
        • 6. Eric J. Barron, President, Pennsylvania State University at University Park, $1,039,717
        • 7. Michael V. Drake, President, Ohio State University, $1,034,574
        • 8. Michael K. Young, President, Texas A&M at College Station, $1,000,000
        • 9. Jean E. Robillard, Interim President, University of Iowa, $929,045
        • 10. Raymond Watts, President, University of Alabama at Birmingham, $890,000

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurensonnenberg/2017/07/17/the-top-paid-public-university-presidents/

    3. Re:lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot. Just because you don't like someone's work doesn't make it meaningless or worthless. Every organization has ways that they can be more efficient. Those poor administrators you're talking about are probably just that. Poor. Faculty on the other hand, are very well compensated.

    4. Re:lower actual cost? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or stop paying univeristy presidents high salaries that rival what CEOs make.

      Not just the university presidents.

      You listed some university presidents with very high salaries. Let's compare to the head football coaches for those same schools.

      1. Arizona State: the president makes $1.5mil, the football coach makes $3.2mil.

      Your second university listed, University of Texas, paid it's chancellor $1.5mil. In the past three years, they paid their football coaches an unbelievable $54 million.

      https://www.businessinsider.co...

      You can go right down that list and see that university football coaches are making several times more than the presidents of the universities. In fact, in every single case, they are the highest paid public employee of their respective states.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      _,--=#[The Post CRIMER doesn't want you to read!!!]#=--,_ 1)Why-are-people-upset-with-him? 2)What-can-I-do 3)What-are-his-names 4)Who-is-FatCashewsLovesMe 5)How-to-defeat-his-hustles 6)Why-are-there-dashes 7)Pastebin-Copy

      1)Why-are-people-upset-with-himHe makes frequent low quality posts for two reasons:
      Money) BASICALLY: He made thousands of shitty posts & bragged about how much money it made him.
      DETAILS: He wants u to folow his referer links & pick up his cookie. Even if u dont buy what he linked but do buy something else from that site later on he often makes money;He ALSO tries to drive TRAFFIC to his various BLOGS & vlogs.
      Karma)He believes karma acumulates infinitely So he makes lots of pointles posts that r not bad enough to mod down;hoping they wil get moded up;He was a raging ahole when he thoght he had a karma surplus

      2)What-can-I-do DOWNMOD u wil usually get more mod points. If he is postng from a new sock acount w/ krma, get his oldst posts first. DOWNMOD him and AC in fresh thrads early on;Metmods wil reward u. METAMOD his posts. REPLY ONLY ANONYMOUSLY to the most deeply nested coments in his threds it helps hide his posts. Dwnvote his SUBMISSIONS, he uses to get krma. REPORT HIM to slshdot & the afiliate progrms he is usng. DONT MENTION his brand names c**mer.

      3)What-are-his-namesMost famous:The Original CDR, Cre|mer Cdre|mer ILoveFatCashews, Anonymous Cashews, The Fat Bastard aka TCDR

      4)Who-is-FatCashewsLoveMe AKA Tardu Lardo,FCLM Funny & anoying; Not me or crimer;He keeps lookout for infestation

      5)How-can-I-avoid-his-hustles --===DONT FOLLOW HIS LINKS!!!===--
      IF YOU MUST:Use a privte tab & nevr buy anything on the same sesion. If he fools u, close tab, cler the cookies for that site. There r sites other than yutube that wil let u watch his videos. I dont know if people view his contnt but I can pictre his jowls jigling at the thoght of people subvrting his business model
      6)Why-are-there-dashes & weird stuffI know most only skim thse posts. I want the most imprtnt infrmton to pop out at a glnce & to keep it shrt. I dont use TCDRs name becase he may think tht he benfits from geting it indxed by serch engnes. Id like 2 thnk TCDR & FCLM for editrial advice

      7)Copy: http://archive.is/TtDrY

    6. Re:lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      creimer is so desperate for attention that he has decided to invest in producing video material for pedophiles and sex tourists!

      This sounds crazy doesn't it? Well he sure is. Read his own posts below where he brags about it and seems all proud of it!

      creimer wrote:
      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      Have you seen creimer's children band video [youtu.be]? Holy shit! That video got hundreds of view [twitter.com] with 95% coming from outside of the United States and the top three nations are well known for sex tourism. It doesn't surprise me that Slashdot has so many pedobears.

      and:
      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      No. Thanks to YOU for calling me a pedophile. It has become my best performing video in the first 24 hours to date. All those views came from OUTSIDE the United States. Ukraine being 11% of the total.

      and:
      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      Thanks to your Pedobear buddies, I got 25 hours of watch time in three days and coming in second to my Slashdot video with 30 hours of watch time in six months. Keep up the good work!

      So basically creimer, you are bragging about providing video material to pedophiles and sex tourists and you do not see any problems with it as long as it brings views to your youtube channel.

      Poor Chris, sad, very sad...

      How long will it be before you do the right thing and take that video off line?

      update: see creimer's replies here:
      https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...

      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...

    7. Re:lower actual cost? by DarkRookie · · Score: 1

      This list is soooo much worse.

      https://www.businessinsider.co...

      --
      The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    8. Re:lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And students are still paying athletic fees.

    9. Re:lower actual cost? by kenh · · Score: 2

      1. Michael Crow, President, Arizona State University $1,554,058

      Arizona State has 51,000 enrolled students, paying either $10/28K each year - call the average tuition $20K, times 51,000 students, and it is a Billion dollar/year business, so paying the President/CEO 1/10th of 1% of revenues isn't really an issue. If you eliminate the President's salary, you'll save $20/year per student - does that really make a difference? $28,000 becoming $27,980 doesn't make college more affordable in any meaningful way.

      --
      Ken
    10. Re: lower actual cost? by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      Yeah, people making high six low seven figures for successfully managing a large operation don't bother me, gotta keep that talent away from regular businesses. The CEOs who get 8 digits for failing is the sort of thing that ticks me off

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    11. Re:lower actual cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      In fact, in every single case, they are the highest paid public employee of their respective states.

      Glad I'm from a civilized state like Kansas. Our highest paid public employee is a basketball coach.

  5. The long fall to Interstate Highways, clean water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "it's easy to spend other people's money" = Republicanism in a nutshell

  6. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If your family is pulling in $130,000 and you can't afford an education then the problem's in the Universities.

    Maybe those $100 million sports facilities and plasma TVs in every bedroom aren't really needed.

    --
    No sig today...
  7. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you work for free?

  8. Re: The long fall to Socialism by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Informative

    Germany has had such a system for decades, and is the power house of Europe.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As opposed to hiring the kid who just happened to be born to a well-off family? What did that child do to earn his Silver platter?

  10. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pick up trash on the street and in the park when I go walking, I help old people cross the street, I call for help when I see someone who needs it. Am I a socialist now? Or is socialism part of society since forever, and you're nuts?

  11. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

    Rice is a private institution so not socialist because it isn't the government. If you are dirt poor they are using their money to cover your tuition. Lots of elite schools do this, hell one of my cousins got into to Brandeis University's economics program and didn't pay a dime for tuition with his parents being a teacher and a physical therapist. What you fail to understand is that elite schools want the best and brightest to graduate from their school even if they are poor. This means that the degrees for the rich fucks who can't find their ass with both hands who also graduate from there are respected.

    --
    Time to offend someone
  12. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a grumpy-pants because you're angry about how hard you've had to work for your success? Angry that other people don't have to work as hard for theirs?

    Is the goal of life to work hard, or to achieve "success," ask yourself!

    Just because you agree with the "traditional" workings of a system that chooses to harshly ignore our easily-achieved-in-this-day "success" of the people (i.e. abundance, health, nourishment, safety, etc.), FOR EVERYONE, WITH LITTLE RELIANCE ON GRUELING HUMAN INPUT, doesn't weigh up to shit except for that you agree with something you experienced.

    Sadly enough, your anger and resentment for your own suffering within this system blinds you to its non-necessity. You wish that others will have to have the same pain you did, otherwise they don't deserve the favorable conditions you toiled for yourself.

    Wake the fuck up everyone. Everyone can be taken care of. Money is a sham and most of it is taken away from you. We need to move past post-modern and progressively regress again into the idea and natural truth that there can be enough for everyone on this planet if we stop fucking pissing at each other because we are tired and worn from working this fucking bullshit control system we have all suffered.

    K THANKS BYE

  13. Re:The long fall to Socialism by El+Cubano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As the US continues it's long fall towards Socialism, I am saddened by the low information populace who think that this will be a panacea.

    Let me try to help you out:

    From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:

    socialism
    n 1: a political theory advocating state ownership of industry
    2: an economic system based on state ownership of capital [syn:
    {socialism}, {socialist economy}] [ant: {capitalism},
    {capitalist economy}]

    Rice University: William Marsh Rice University, commonly known as Rice University, is a private research university ... (emphasis added)

    As someone who is strongly committed to both free market principles and also smaller government I think this is utterly fantastic. It doesn't get better than this. It is the polar opposite of Socialism.

    The university, a private entity, has made a public financial commitment that better serves its own interests and the public good. Why hate on that? I mean, seriously, I would much rather see this sort of thing than more government handouts. Those handouts require the government to use the police power of state to confiscate private property (the money each taxpayer earns) and then use a corrupt and inefficient system to dole it back out. In fact, federal education spending is probably the most wasteful spending on the part of the federal government. The university doing this for themselves means that they have a vested interest in efficiently applying the funds in question and in producing the best outcomes (successful alumni who improve the school's reputation and donate back to the school).

    Sorry, but you are way off base and this should be the way that education gets fixed in this country: by the schools, not by the government.

  14. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah but we Americans don't look past the end of our fucking noses do we now

    FUCKING DO WE NOW, JIMMY?

  15. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This dude here talking some fucking sense

    WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE

    WE HAVE THE POWER

  16. Interesting ideal, with conditions I'm sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The question is where will they make up the income loss? Its a private institution so I realize they can probably do this to some extent, but you also must have a certain amount of paying students too. Otherwise its like Affordable care act, where only the sick sign up and the young and healthy see no reason paying for others health care. Pretty sure in the end the demographics for this school means most students won't meet the requirements and I expect some requirements to maintain a certain GPA as well. Which should be expected and if you get a free ride the giveback should be making good grades.

  17. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $5.5 billion dollar endowment.

    Rice is announcing the changes to its aid plan two years after its finances — and particularly its large endowment of more than $5.5 billion — became headline news. The school was among a group of wealthy universities that drew scrutiny from federal lawmakers for announcing plans to raise tuition in 2016.

    In response, Rice said it used the endowment to cover around 40 percent of its operating costs. Officials also said the fund "covers more than 90 percent of their financial aid program," as Houston Chronicle reporter Benjamin Wermund told Houston Public Media.

  18. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Free tuition.

    But it's still Texas.
    And worse, it's Houston.

  19. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So where does this money actually come from? Federal grants? Royalties? Someone is paying, after all...

    Ones making more than $130,000/yr

    ... and endowments.

  20. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's the great thing about America - you don't get to force your own morals on other people. If you have some extra money and you'd like to spend it on sending someone to school, have at it, just don't force everyone to make the same choice.

  21. I'm from India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that university good? No one I know earns $65000/y, a free trip sounds good!

    1. Re:I'm from India by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Is that university good? No one I know earns $65000/y, a free trip sounds good!

      I didn't read the article so it might say... but a lot of Universities charge more for people out of state- and even more for people out of country. This may not be free for people not in the US- but check, you might be in luck.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:I'm from India by kenh · · Score: 1

      I didn't read the article so it might say... but a lot of Universities charge more for people out of state- and even more for people out of country.

      Those are called State Universities, the tuition is subsidized by state tax revenues and federal grants.

      Rice is a private university.

      --
      Ken
    3. Re:I'm from India by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I didn't read the article so it might say... but a lot of Universities charge more for people out of state- and even more for people out of country.

      Those are called State Universities, the tuition is subsidized by state tax revenues and federal grants.

      Rice is a private university.

      I went to a private university. In state students paid less than out of state students. Almost everyone paid too much. I had about 75% covered with 3 scholarships and a grant. They rest I worked a full time job for and split the cost of attending with my parents.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  22. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Your great grandparents would think you're a fucking psychopath

    Not that long ago we Earthlings held SOME common idea of "good" for everyone

    THE KIND THAT WEREN'T FORCE-FED TO US FOR A PRICE AT OUR OWN EXPENSE

  23. Largesse on the backs of the Adjunct Faculty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's ridiculous what universities are paying for "temporary" educators. They got the idea from the vast temp market in areas such as engineering. There will always be someone unqualified, but qualified-on-paper, who will do the job at those rates.

  24. Re: The long fall to Socialism by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    One semester of bad grades, and out the door German college students go.

    German 'poors' are routed into apprenticeships, same as their parents were.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  25. Re:The long fall to Socialism by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    That's just what you think that people think. You are wrong, and are probably incapable of understanding that you are wrong, and impervious to reasoning that you are wrong. The good news is that progress moves ahead one funeral at a time.

  26. Re: The long fall to Socialism by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.

    I hate to burst your little bubble, but that's also the trouble with capitalism.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  27. Re: The long fall to Socialism by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money

    Rice University is a private institution, so this is charity, not "socialism".

    They may have done a cost-benefit analysis and figured what they will lose on tuition, they will make up in endowment contributions from grateful future alumni who are earning and investing rather than trying to pay down debt.

  28. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > I certainly never would hire someone who had their college handed to them on a Socialist platter.

    There are only three possible ways to pay for College now.

    Family Money. Scholarships. Loans. That's it really. Anything beyond a community college education is going to require one of these three avenues. It's simply too expensive to pay for by working a part time job at the same time.

    As income inequality rises, the number of people with Family Money to spend on an education will fall. And they'll probably go to a better company than yours.

    And you won't hire people who get an education via Scholarships.

    So your ranks will be filled with people who are under massive amounts of Student Debt.

    See, what you're really saying isn't that you don't want to hire people who had it easy, what you're saying is you only want to hire people who are so crushed under debt that they will have very few options when it comes to exploring other opportunities for employment. They won't be able to afford to take a few months off to find the perfect job. They won't be able to pay to relocate to a new city.

    The workers you are looking for are wage-slaves. People you can't treat like shit because they have no other choice.

    In other words, fuck you asshole.

  29. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

    And I'm sure there will be a similar system in place to qualify for the free tuition.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  30. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your family is pulling in $130,000 and you can't afford an education then the problem's in the Universities.

    Maybe those $100 million sports facilities and plasma TVs in every bedroom aren't really needed.

    Um. No.

    Firstly, you usually *can* afford an education, you just can't necessarily afford to get diploma from a decent college other than the state college. You can still get a degree in most state systems, and you can go far beyond that for learning if you care about learning more than the degree because information is so easy to get these days. You can study computer science at your local community college and watch and work through the MIT curriculum on your own, for example.

    Also, the money universities spend on sports *bring money in* to the institution. Why do you think sports are so stupidly big? It's not because they're academically useful, it's because they sell tickets and help keep people connected to the school (which increases donations).

    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also, the money universities spend on sports *bring money in* to the institution.

      Citation?

      I say this because I know people say this about the local university here, but when someone actually looked in to it, the athletic department was in debt to the university to the tune of something like 10 million. I've remember reading that only the two or three biggest football teams in college athletics actually made money, all the others lose it.

    2. Re:No by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Certain sports (those on TV) make money for big universities.
      Apart from that, college athletic departments "lose" money the same as other departments.

    3. Re:No by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      If your family is pulling in $130,000 and you can't afford an education then the problem's in the Universities.

      Maybe those $100 million sports facilities and plasma TVs in every bedroom aren't really needed.

      Um. No.

      Firstly, you usually *can* afford an education, you just can't necessarily afford to get diploma from a decent college other than the state college.

      State colleges are decent colleges. People shouldn't go to expensive colleges unless they can afford it or they have scholarships or low-income grants provided by said private institutions.

      A lot (not all, not the majority, but a lot) of student debt is due to bad money management. Getting a 6-digit debt for a major in literature at a out-of-state private university, that's a major fuck-up, specially if one could get the same education with a Pell Grant or a 1/4 to 1/5 of that type of debt at a local university (with the first two years completed at an even much cheaper community college.)

      But then again, some of these kids know shit at 17 and get horrible advise by useless college advisors. By the time they wise up, they are already up to their eyeballs in debt that cannot be discharged via bankruptcy laws (and that's totally fucking unfair considering anyone can get into a stupid business and default over and over and over.)

  31. Loss leader? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They will cover tuition, but what about all the other costs? Not covered unless your family is below that $65k mark. I wonder if they found that they still make a nice profit on the room and board, etc.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    1. Re:Loss leader? by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wonder if they found that they still make a nice profit on the room and board, etc.

      They have a page breaking down the costs of a Rice education. Roughly 72% of the cost is tuition, so it's safe to say that they're waiving their biggest money generator. They also have a page dedicated to discussing off-campus housing, on which they earn no profit at all (plus, Rice is in Houston, and as that page goes into detail about, Houston is one of the cheapest big cities to live in). So, no, I don't think they view room and board as a profit center. Universities like Rice typically operate on endowments and donations from alumni more than tuition payments.

    2. Re:Loss leader? by kenh · · Score: 1

      Rice feels guilty about it's $5.5 Billion dollar endowment, so it's come up with this scheme to help spend it down.

      This program will quickly attract the best students, looking for a free ride for their undergraduate degree, so what does that mean for all the poor and minority students graduating from inferior schools? They will likely not have the grades to get into Rice.

      Sometime in mid 2019 I expect a lawsuit alleging the Rice plan is racist.

      Oh, and let's not forget, if your family has "unusual" assets (own a business? A farm? Got some serious money in the bank, you're excluded from the program.

      --
      Ken
    3. Re:Loss leader? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      That's really interesting, thanks. I would not have thought to look at their website for a cost breakdown.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  32. Re: The long fall to Socialism by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One semester of bad grades, and out the door German college students go.

    That seems like a good incentive for students to do their best.

    German 'poors' are routed into apprenticeships, same as their parents were.

    No, German 'dumbs' are routed into apprenticeships. It is based on aptitude, not income.

    And there is nothing wrong with apprenticeships. They are a good option for people that are not academically gifted.

    I went to college and did an apprenticeship in metal working. Knowing how to use a metal lathe and CNC mill turned out to be very useful life skills.

  33. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh so that means we can't do better? That we have to exactly replicate their model?

      The kind of reasoning you have exemplified is rampant in American hyper critical psychology concerning how we look at improving society within this country and in the world in general.

  34. per The Founder by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 5, Informative

    In 1964, Rice's tuition was $0, per the Founder's will. Then they broke the will and started charging. Of course, others since, singlely and in combination, have given more now. However, this is a good step toward restoration of their Benefactor's honorable intent.

  35. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Germany lost two World Wars because of it.

  36. in the beginning... by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    Rice did without tuition for 50+ years, in the tougher years at the start.

  37. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Very good fucking point my friend!!

      I cooked for 10 years. In good restaurants, some the best or busiest in their town. One might call me an apprentice chef, well not anymore, but then.

    Too bad those 10 years of apprenticing got me nowhere! All I know how to do is cook very good healthy fresh food for a lot of people and also bake bread and do so with health and vigor and flavor and community in mind!

    Woe is me, however will I apply all of these completely useless skills that I learned outside of college!

  38. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we are *only* talking about food, then I agree with you. It is a fact that we throw away more than enough food to feed the entire world. World hunger is a distribution problem only, because we have *completely* solved the production problem.

    I further think that we could create a sustainable system in which everyone has enough food. I am not at all worried about overpopulation because the statistical trends are clear: when people have enough they don't breed. In fact, the more people have, the less they breed, and this is true across all cultures and time periods.

    HOWEVER

    when we include everything that one might have, apart from food, such as luxuries, real estate, transportation, electricity, and on and on..... we quickly run into a situation where basic human nature prevents any sort of even distribution possibility. For the most part, if people can get the things they want without having to work.....they won't work. And that will in turn create a production problem that makes the whole system fall apart. Further, people who DO work want to keep what they have earned, and so if too much of what they are producing is taken away from them, they won't work, and again it falls apart. FURTHER, the task of deciding who-needs-what, and who-gets-what, is a *really hard* thing to do (crazy complex, crazy numbers), and it tends to not be done well, and fall apart. Worse yet, the people assigned that task have ridiculous power, and so natural human greed and corruption re-introduces the very uneven distribution that we were trying to fix in the first place.

    So that is why socialism always falls apart when applied at too grand a scale. Human nature undoes it.

  39. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah but he'll shit his pants and wake up to that sour reality before he dies, so we don't even have to wait that long. Keep feeding him!

  40. You left out grants, work, and future service by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Family Money. Scholarships. Loans

    College of the Ozarks is essentially free to students, but you have to work for it.

    In some states, veterans get tuition at public or in some cases even private schools partly or fully covered.

    If you can get admitted to one of the US military academies, the tuition is free but you pay for it with a commitment to serve. Similar military scholarships for ROTC students and some graduate students are also available.

    I don't know about today, but in the recent past some loans were forgivable after 10 years of employment in certain high-need "social service" jobs such as teaching in a low-income school.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:You left out grants, work, and future service by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Signing up for the US Military is signing up to throw away your life on the whims of Exxon, Goldman Sucks, and Aramco. Not to mention propping up parasite states in the Middle East. There should be a better way than signing up to murder and be murdered as a servant of imperialist thugs.

    2. Re:You left out grants, work, and future service by sexconker · · Score: 1

      That's why you sign up for the Coast Guard or the Air Condition Force. Or, soon, the Space Force.

    3. Re:You left out grants, work, and future service by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Coast Guard got sent to do patrols off the coast of Iraq. Fun times.

    4. Re:You left out grants, work, and future service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patrols off the Iraqi coast probably weren't that dangerous, compared to RPGs and IEDs occupying the Iraqi cities and countrysides.

  41. more billionaires by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    Another billionaire giving $1 billion now would pay for about 15,000 student years.

    Howard Hughes was Rice's first potential billion dollar donor but he got crosswise and left his billions in the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. Probably something about divorcing the Founder's niece after screwing too many Hollywood actresses in the 20s, and wanting his name on the proposed medical school.

  42. Re: The long fall to Socialism by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Intelligence is inheritable. Duh. Like I said, 'same as their parents'.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  43. Re: The long fall to Socialism by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    It means that the people who want 'free college for all' and point to Germany are fucking liars.

    'Free college for all' isn't even a worthwhile goal. Just stupid.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  44. Rice was free until the space age by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Until the 1960s Rice University didn't charge any tuition.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Rice was free until the space age by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they are trying to get back to their claim as 'one of the best values in college education', by improving the average amount paid for a Rice degree. They sure have not been significantly more affordable than other universities for a while now.

  45. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As the US continues it's long fall towards Socialism, I am saddened by the low information populace who think that this will be a panacea. They think that money is free and there is an endless supply of it growing on trees somewhere. The unfortunate fact is, it's easy to spend other people's money until there's no more money to spend. If I was a successful job creator who had worked hard to achieve success and I had to pay to put my child through college while all the lower achievers kids just went for free, well I'd be pretty pissed. I certainly never would hire someone who had their college handed to them on a Socialist platter.

    Based on the level of ignorance displayed here, you were born to middle-class parents, have a public education, some junior college, work in a call center and vote libertarian.

  46. Re:The long fall to Socialism by HornWumpus · · Score: 0

    Liberals become conservatives with age and experience.

    Unless you 'have no brain' it will happen to you too.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  47. Do you have to live on campus? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    If your parents live nearby you might have the option of living with them. I'm sure you still have to pay a fee for parking if you drive your car in, and there are the usual "mandatory fees" like the student union fees.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  48. Re: The long fall to Socialism by lgw · · Score: 1

    Rice University is a private institution, so this is charity, not "socialism".

    Well said. Rice has a large endowment fund and can afford to shift to a model of "tuition paid by rich alums who donate". That's my favorite model for paying for college, as the university has to create rich alums who credit the university for their success, if they want to continue.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  49. Re:who's actually paying? by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

    from the accumulation of tax-free vanity donations from the wealthy, whose assets are insured and "stimulated" by the Federal Reserve: anytime anyone has a lot of free money it's a good bet the source is the "taxpayer" i.e. taxslave. This is probably some preemptive PR, since Rice was a proudly white-only school

  50. Re:The long fall to Socialism by nealric · · Score: 1

    My spouse went to Rice. The dorm was a pretty basic cinder block affair and the sports facility wasn't extravagant. The grounds and classroom were quite nice, however.

    Plasma TVs are obsolete and it's pretty much impossible to find any TV that isn't flat. You can get them at Walmart for $100. Seems like an anachronistic comment.

  51. Re: The long fall to Socialism by mysidia · · Score: 2

    That's my favorite model for paying for college, as the university has to create rich alums who credit the university for their success, if they want to continue.

    Hopefully more universities will follow suit until it becomes what the market expects from universities: to not only instill pure knowledge but promote learning in philosophical values such as generosity as well, or "being a decent human being". If the performance and value a school brings to the table in terms of lifelong learning and earnings is really there for prospective students, then there should be plenty of rich and generous/amicable alums willing to donate to help maintain the value of their school and contribute to its longevity and future learners.

  52. ALL of those are BIG FOOTBALL SCHOOLS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THAT'S WHY.

  53. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Both socialism and selfishism always have been..... And always will be. It's our job to keep it somewhat in the middle while protecting everyone's rights. So having people on both sides of the line, wherever it is today, is a good thing. I am strong, smart, and able, so I help others as much as possible. One day, who knows, I might need a helping hand. Thanks!

  54. Re:The long fall to Socialism by jamesborr · · Score: 1

    It is also important to note that this just covers tuition and not room and board, books, etc. At most "elite" schools, these other expenses can be 1/2 to 2/3's of the actual bill. A nice thing to do no doubt, but unless your parents live in the same city, a 100% tuition scholarship is not really going to get you over the goal line of total educational costs...

  55. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Poors: "inheritable" is a fancy word for "you get if from your Mom and Dad".

  56. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > I certainly never would hire someone who had their college handed to them on a Socialist platter.

    There are only three possible ways to pay for College now.

    Family Money. Scholarships. Loans. That's it really. Anything beyond a community college education is going to require one of these three avenues. It's simply too expensive to pay for by working a part time job at the same time.

    As income inequality rises, the number of people with Family Money to spend on an education will fall. And they'll probably go to a better company than yours.

    And you won't hire people who get an education via Scholarships.

    So your ranks will be filled with people who are under massive amounts of Student Debt.

    See, what you're really saying isn't that you don't want to hire people who had it easy, what you're saying is you only want to hire people who are so crushed under debt that they will have very few options when it comes to exploring other opportunities for employment. They won't be able to afford to take a few months off to find the perfect job. They won't be able to pay to relocate to a new city.

    The workers you are looking for are wage-slaves. People you can't treat like shit because they have no other choice.

    In other words, fuck you asshole.

    It should be obvious that the asshole is lying and has never hired actually hired an employee in his life; let alone an employee with a college education.

  57. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish all the bitches screaming "College should be free!!!!!" would finally pony up. Put their fucking money where their mouth is. Instead they're waiting for someone else to pay for it. Fucking dumb cunts. Nothing more.

  58. 130,000? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the hell did that become middle class?

  59. Socialism argument aside.... by WolfgangVL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they can afford this and keep the lights on, it really shows how much we are all overpaying for higher education.

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
    1. Re: Socialism argument aside.... by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      Yep. My college's fundraising appeals get thrown right out. If they can't get by on what they're already charging it's not my problem

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  60. ignorance is bliss by lamer01 · · Score: 1

    $130K in NYC is poverty level. You definitely cannot afford Rice tuition with $130K. After taxes you are looking at $75K. A year at Rice with Room and Board is close to that.

    1. Re:ignorance is bliss by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Depends where in NYC -- not all of NYC is Manhattan below 120th Street. Own a house in an OK part of Queens, send kids to public school, plan on reducing your income below $120k when they go to school so they qualify for free CUNY/SUNY tuition. That's how it's done -- think like a 1st-gen immigrant...

    2. Re:ignorance is bliss by jbengt · · Score: 1

      But $130K in Houston (where Rice is located) goes a lot further. Undergraduate Tuition is currently $44,900, so still gonna borrow some. But if you're making $130K over the years, you should have been able to have some college savings laid away.

    3. Re:ignorance is bliss by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. For one thing, you have to own (and drive) a damn car in Houston... being able to go anywhere in NYC for $2.75 by bus or train is damn nice.

    4. Re:ignorance is bliss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation needed. I know New York is expensive and the poverty line is likely well above the national poverty line, but that sounds like bullshit.

  61. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Germany has had such a system for decades, and is the power house of Europe.

    Thats because they can run to the USA if they need help. Life is cheap when you have no military.

  62. Re:The long fall to Socialism by lactose99 · · Score: 1

    You don't need to worry about how someone else gets to college. If you can put your kid through it with no problems, great! Spend what little time you have trying to make things better, not worrying about how someone may or may not be "freeloading" into an education that, quite frankly, everyone deserves.

    --
    Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
  63. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Well, that is generally a good guideline for socialized programs isn't it? Don't waste resources on people who don't actually want them, or can't substantially benefit from them. College is not actually terribly useful to many people, maybe most people. You need to have both the interest and the aptitude or you're just wasting everyone's time, and both you and society would be better off if you pursued an apprenticeship or other, less intellectual, career path.

    How many college educated people do you know that ended up in careers that have nothing to do with their degree? Seems like most of them to me. All those people basically wasted their time in college.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  64. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pick up trash on the street and in the park when I go walking

    Leaving your DNA on items that may later become evidence in a criminal case. Shame if you get sent away for something you didn't do.

    I help old people cross the street

    Elder abuse. One scared old person calling the cops on you and you'll be put away for years.

    I call for help when I see someone who needs it

    Sticking your nose into other people's business will get it cut off. Plenty of reports of couples fighting in public and, when someone tries to intervene or even call for help to "assist" the woman, then the woman and they guy join in on beating up the "helpful citizen". Leave people alone, you'll get no thanks and might get sued for your trouble; besides they're all strong and independent people who don't need no stinkin' man.

    Am I a socialist now?

    Only a meddling fool.

  65. Re: The long fall to Socialism by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Intelligence is inheritable.

    So is height. But that doesn't mean short people never have tall kids.

    Heredity is complex, and dumb (and poor) parents can have bright kids, and smart parents can have dumb kids.

    The German system certainly has flaws, but discrimination on income is not one of them. A bright poor kid can go to a gymnasium (4 year college) tuition free.

    For kids that don't do well academically, it is foolish to try to push them into an educational track that will lead to failure and waste. Apprenticeships are a very good alternative, and are far better than what America does with our academically challenged.

  66. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, didn't Russia kick their butt once before?

  67. Where to draw the line? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    'Free college for all' isn't even a worthwhile goal. Just stupid.

    Assuming "all" means all who have the brains to graduate, at what level should we draw the line for "free education for all"?

    In the USA, we tend to draw the line after 12th grade.
    In some other countries, they draw it 2, 3, or 4 years higher (I think Belize has free college tuition, for example).
    In some others, even some graduate degrees are tuition-free, albeit with strings attached (I think Cuba has free medical schools, but all doctors work for the state and they don't get paid much).

    Some countries draw the line much lower, only offering free tuition to 8th grade or even lower grades.

    There may be some countries that do not offer free schooling at all.

    Where should America draw the line, and why?

    Note: I'm not talking about "automatic admission/admission by entitlement" like the USA does for K-12 students for the vast majority of its public K-12 schools, or "compulsory attendance or registered home-schooling" like almost all of the USA does from age 6 to 16 or so (those ages may vary by state). I'm talking about "if you DO get admitted, you won't pay tuition."

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Where to draw the line? by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      I think free college for all is a great goal, as long as we in the U.S. follow the lead of other countries that actually do it.

      You start be figuring out how many positions society actually needs in each field. How many historians, librarians, engineers, etc.

      Then you create student positions for those categories. If 300 engineers are need you fund 300 spots. The best 300 people go to those positions. By best it means you pick the top 300 people by their high school grades supplemented by relevant outside activities. No cutouts for race, gender or any other factor that is irrelevant to actual performance.

      Once these students get into the program they must maintain the best grades. When it comes time for advanced degrees, the same. The best students get free education all the way through PhD, MD or whatever.

      Those that don't make the cut are offered trade school, Free as long as they work at it.

      For those who refuse to work at mastering the skills and education provided they are on their own, at least as far as education is concerned. No student loans. If you've got the money and want to go study some subject in excess of what society needs, great pay for it. Else be prepared to work

      There is no free handout here. It is an investment. And the investment would go to those to whom society would get the best payback for.

  68. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I was a successful job creator who had worked hard to achieve success and I had to pay to put my child through college while all the lower achievers kids just went for free, well I'd be pretty pissed.

    I sense a distinct lack of altruism in your post.

    To quote the current occupant of the White House, "Sad."
    Or, to put it another way, "Bless your heart."

  69. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Immerman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Firstly, intelligence and wealth don't correlate very well. Plenty of stupid-to-mediocre people have become rich (most athletes and actors spring to mind), and plenty of brilliant ones "waste" their life in intellectual pursuits rather than accumulating wealth.

    Also, the genetics of intelligence are not so simple. There's plenty of brilliant kids born to mediocre parents, and plenty of mediocre kids born to brilliant parents. Society is best served if the poor, smart ones are able to develop their intelligence into valuable skills, rather than pursuing whatever dead-end stream of jobs keeps food in their belly. Of course, that means added competition for the stupid rich kids, so the wealthy are often opposed to the idea.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  70. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    since Rice was a proudly white-only school

    Actually they'll take anyone who scores within 100 points of the max on the SAT(*).

    * = In practice, this effectively means white, asian, and indian only.

  71. Read TFA by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    they got a $5.5 billion dollar endowment. They're spending it on free college for kids who can't really afford it. Don't forget that even if those parents are making good money now most in that income bracket still haven't fully recovered from the 2008 crash. I know I haven't.

    I'm happy they're going to give out scholarships but I want to see more being done for public Universities. In 2018 college should be tuition free. For one thing given productivity raises and automation we could use less people in the job market. For another thing a better educated electorate would be in a better position to stop crap like the 2008 market crash from happening in the first place.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Read TFA by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      For another thing a better educated electorate would be in a better position to stop crap like the 2008 market crash from happening in the first place.

      Unlikely. You cannot fix human greed. The mortgage market expanded wildly on sub-prime mortgages because everyone was seeking more and more money, and conjuring up mathematical models that say everything is OK. (These are really smart people, too). And as long as everyone was making money, everyone was happy to look the other way.

      That said, not everyone suffered - there were a few people who realized what was going on and invested the other way. Heck, the Credit Default Swap was invented to take advantage of this situation. This lead to several funds being created that basically cashed it in when the crash happened. (This was not easy - they had to cash it in before everyone went insolvent).

    2. Re:Read TFA by hawk · · Score: 1

      > Heck, the Credit Default Swap was invented to take advantage of this situation

      Not really.

      It was invented quite specifically to *offset* risk. A company that would take a loss one way would insure against that risk for a fixed cost, while another who received risk in the other direction would do the same.

      Once *created* for this purposed, it became a speculation vehicle, in the same way as agricultural futures, which traded the chance of wild profit if the market boomed for a locked in certain value.

      Selling 80% of your expected harvest is risk management and sound planning; selling 120% is gambling, not investing.

      hawk, economist at large

  72. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 2

    One semester of bad grades, and out the door German college students go.

    Complete nonsense. Where did you get that idea? If that were true, I wouldn't have a terminal degree in computer science...

    --

    Stephan

  73. Rice University is a great deal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is well respected (except football) school. At this price, it just became one of the best deals for extremely high quality university education in the world, especially for science degrees.

    Disclosure: 3 family members are alumni, 2 with advanced degrees.
    I went to a state school.

  74. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Ichijo · · Score: 1

    If your family is pulling in $130,000 and you can't afford an education then the problem's in the Universities.

    Except that's one way to prevent too many people from attending the same university.

    --
    Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
  75. Re:who's actually paying? by ooloorie · · Score: 0

    Wow, even a simple question like "who pays for this" gets modded down now by progressive trolls.

  76. Re: The long fall to Socialism by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    My entire German extended family.

    It is true.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  77. Re:The long fall to Socialism by jbengt · · Score: 1

    So, when a private university sets its' own tuition policy, you call it socialism?
    What does that have to do with ownership of the means of production?

  78. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given how many Jews run the country, that's not hard to do. Have you seen how long Greedius Jewis' snout is?

  79. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whatever you say, Comrade Marx.

  80. Re: The long fall to Socialism by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    It gets even more complicated. Nutrition during development in childhood has a pretty significant effect on cognitive ability, so even if you win the genetic lottery, you can still lose if you're born in to extreme poverty where caloric and nutritional intake is too low during developmental years. There's a lot of research to back that up, indicating that while cognition certainly has a genetic component, like all complex traits, there are significant environmental components as well; nutrition, exposure to heavy metals and other toxins, exposure to violence, maternal depression, and so on and so forth.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  81. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As opposed to hiring the kid who just happened to be born to a well-off family? What did that child do to earn his Silver platter?

    Next time you meet one, ask him/her. You'll find that they assume that credit for all accomplishments by any member of their family tree all the way back to Adam and Eve automatically accrues to them as if they had done it themselves.

    Another fun thing you'll find is that those folks will always tell you how hard it was to get where they are despite all their advantages, then (often in the same conversation) complain about how easy it would be for the poor to be just as "successful" if only they weren't so lazy and would just try.

  82. Re:The long fall to Socialism by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    The US is all about forced morality. See also: Prohibition, the War on Some Drugs, historic bans on interracial marriage, the KKK, and Draconian anti-prostitution laws that punish sex workers.

  83. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is an impressive post. Remarkable. It put me in mild awe.

    I chose those words carefully.

  84. Re:The long fall to Socialism by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    A lot of very smart people stay liberal, because they realize that the public good is more important than the unlimited ability to hoard money.

  85. Re: The long fall to Socialism by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Germany came damned close to dominating much of Europe, and if it had kept the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, it might not have had an Eastern Front at all. That was a strategic blunder driven as much by the Nazis perverse race views as by any military necessity to drive the Communists east of the Urals. As it was, it took the combined might of the British Empire, the United States and the Soviet Union to beat Germany. We're talking the pre-eminent military powers of the mid-20th century. As to WWI, well, Germany lost because of a revolution in Germany itself, and France and Britain were just exhausted by four years of war, and certainly the domestic situation in those two countries was only marginally better than Germany's. All things being equal, if the Kaiser's regime hadn't been toppled, 1919 promised to be even more terrible than 1914-1918.

    But really, there's more German history from 1945 to present than from 1914 to 1945, and even when considering that period, it's useful to ponder how Germany managed, even in the 1920s, to rebuild much of its industry (with generous American loans I'll freely admit) and be in a position that by 1939 it felt confident enough to light the fuse on the Second World War.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  86. Re: The long fall to Socialism by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Only after Britain and France launched the largest land invasion in history on their Western flank, and even then it took ten months of concerted effort by all three Allied Powers to bring Germany to its knees.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  87. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the War on Some People with Some Drugs,

    FTFY

  88. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.

    The problem with all 'isms is that eventually you run out of money.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  89. Rice is returning to its roots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a Rice alum. I attended back when the tuition was set low, and Rice was widely considered an astonishing value for the price. Not much of an exxageration to say that even then, I was about the only one of my friends whose family was paying the full freight - Rice has always been generous grants and scholarships.

    This move is significant, since it moves Rice back toward its roots. The university operated from its opening until the mid-1960s, without charging tuition at all. That was the vision of the founder. Plus, the university has a very large endowment fund, and a relatively small student body, and very, very conservative approach to spending money.

    I applaud what my alma mater has done. They need to go farther, the cost of a private university education is out of control. Rice is in a position to do this, and should do more and should have done this sooner. But, this is a good thing. |

    And, oh yeah - Go Owls!

  90. Re: The long fall to Socialism by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    The general theory has been since 1945 that it's probably best if Germany's defense is largely taken care of by other people. A unified German state with a strong military has prosecuted three major wars, one of which was pretty damned successful (the Franco-Prussian War), and two of which required the combined might of the Allied Powers to defeat. Those last two wars are the most destructive conflicts in human history, so I'd say guaranteeing Germany's territorial integrity is in everyone's best interests.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  91. Re:The long fall to Socialism by sarren1901 · · Score: 1

    I have a coworker that kind of bucks that trend. He's a fairly smart guy but still some how thinks a strong liberal government would take care of everything and if only we would just vote Democrat a utopia would be forth coming.

    It's mind boggling.

    P.S. I'm not endorsing Republicans in any way, shape or form, just expressing that there are old liberals that are quite smart.

  92. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    none of you are getting this right. capitalism is where man exploits man, socialism it's the other way around.

  93. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah but we Americans don't look past the end of our fucking noses do we now

    FUCKING DO WE NOW, JIMMY?

    I'm not JIMMY but sure we do ... at porn though a cloud of pot smoke.

  94. Re: The long fall to Socialism by sexconker · · Score: 1

    The US was quite busy with its own Western front - the Pacific.
    Had it not been, Europe wouldn't have taken nearly so long after the US decided to get in.

  95. Re: The long fall to Socialism by sexconker · · Score: 1

    What about hoboism?

  96. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Intelligence is inheritable. Duh. Like I said, 'same as their parents'.

    While true - it also means absolutely nothing.

    In my family, My father, my older sister, and myself have very high intelligence. My mother and my younger sister both have average intelligence. My father was fairly poor, and my older sister worked a life full of menial jobs, despite her IQ and degree. On the other hand, I am pretty driven, and I have done well.

    Silly things like "The Bell Curve" are stupid - as are the people who believe in it. Even if true, it tells not one thing about any individual.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  97. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    What about hoboism?

    No money to run out of, I suppose. In any event, most people end up broke.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  98. Re: The long fall to Socialism by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Nutrition during development in childhood has a pretty significant effect on cognitive ability

    Indeed. Breastfed children average 3 IQ points higher than average.

    Even more important is prenatal nutrition.

    Good nutrition is not cheap, but bad nutrition is really expensive: Prison inmates have an average IQ of 87, and 3 times the average blood lead levels. Keeping one inmate locked up costs $30k/year. With 2.2M inmates in America, that comes to over $60B per year. Better prenatal and childhood nutrition could cut that in half.

  99. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    Rice is a private university. This is not socialism as the government is not involved in any way. If you feel strongly about this, then feel free to pay full price for tuition yourself rather than bitch about a great opportunity for others.

  100. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    "Sorry kids, I'm not going to pay for you to go to college. I'm also writing you out of my will. I want to make sure you work hard and grow up struggling every step of the way so that you can be just like me! You'll thank me someday."

  101. Horny Wumpwuss endorses nazism, not conservatism. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberalism was what the Founding Fathers wrote about. What Horny Wumpwuss the cantankerous old nazi faggot practices is definitely NOT Conservatism by any stretch of the word's meaning, it's fascism and supremacy. He's a moron.

    He has "no brain" and every time he endorses another nazi he demonstrates it for all to see. Conservatism is all but dead. His reichtarded replacement can't be bothered to tell the truth, and will be hung for treason. Liberals will be fine, lol.

    It's the Trumptards who will have hell to pay in their old age. Everyone they depend on will hate their racist retarded guts, and they'll be abused en masse. Like old Nazi prison guards at 90, Trumpers will be hunted and exterminated.

    It's already begun.

  102. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Jerry · · Score: 1

    Your comment didn't break anyone's bubble.

    Just compare life in Eastern Europe following WWII with life in the West. Which society would you have rather lived in, the one which froze 1932 and made it last until 1989, or the one that became the most wealthy and powerful society with the highest number of middle class citizens in the world since the Roman Empire? Stole it? Right. If you feel like getting rich quickly, go out and rob a bunch of poor people and see how much wealth that gets you.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  103. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    We shouldn't need a lot of government programs if private donors stepped up to the plate. Government should only be a stop gap.

    And yet, I've acdtually had people tell me that I was stupid to give money to charities and then later are heard to be bitching about government shouldn't be doing this either.

    If someone hates government giving away any money then they should put their money where their mouth is and try to take up the slack.

  104. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Jerry · · Score: 1

    The US is all about forced morality. See also: Prohibition, the War on Some Drugs, historic bans on interracial marriage, the KKK, and Draconian anti-prostitution laws that punish sex workers.

    Don't forget Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and other sites owned by those who own the ones I just listed. If you don't post or upload videos which agree with their corporate political POV then you are shadow banned, banned, suspended or your account is deleted. IOW, digitally, you are lined up against the wall and shot if your POV isn't Marxist. IF those folks every get power in DC then there is a good chance Conservatives will be physically lined up against the wall and shot. AntiFa, their thug arm, is giving us a view of the future they have planned for us.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  105. Why did tuition raise? by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If they can lower tuition, that means that did not have to raise it to meet ends. Then why did tuition raise in the first place?

    1. Re:Why did tuition raise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possibly incorrect. For example, by raising tuition, they can put money in a bank and save it. Now they can use the interest from that.

      According to another comment here, the original intent was $0 tuition per the founders will. If that is not sustainable, they need to raise it. Finances change over time, so now they can lower it. But it does not mean they did not have to raise it in the past.

  106. Re:The long fall to Interstate Highways, clean wat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "it's easy to spend other people's money" = Republicanism in a nutshell

    What planet are you from?

    On EARTH the tax & spend people call themselves "liberal", "progressive" or "socialist", but in reality are Marxist. Bloomberg describes how the Democrats want to reverse tax cuts and add $1 Trillion on tax hikes IF they win this midterm and in 2020. For sure they will use some of the tax money put more people on welfare so they'll become dependent on gov handouts.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

    https://www.atr.org/democrats-...

    https://www.watchdog.org/natio...

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/...

    http://illinoisreview.typepad....

    Here's the truth:
    https://www.investors.com/poli...

  107. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A thorough understanding of history actually makes smarter people socialist. The only ones who turn conservative are emotional rationalizers that cannot use logic and reason (or often believe math is a liberal conspiracy).

  108. All education should be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Education should be free or close to it for all that wish to better themselves and have the fortitude and drive to work hard. As it is now most universities and cash cows. Where football coaches for LIFE get massive life long paychecks even after only staying with the school a few years.

    1. Re:All education should be free by shaksys · · Score: 0

      Everything in a CS degree is free online. Anyone can better themselves with just a cheep computer. Education IS free, but college is not free. Someone has to pay the processors, the cleaning staff, the security, the constructions for buildings, etc... Even if college has no tuition, its not free, taxes will go way up.

  109. Re:The long fall to Socialism by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Socialism is a system of government. Socialism is not voluntary. Socialism is not "being nice to people." Socialism is organized, legalized, armed robbery perpetrated by people who tell you they're doing you a favor.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  110. Re: The long fall to Socialism by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Just compare life in Eastern Europe following WWII with life in the West. Which society would you have rather lived in

    Or, compare Pinochet's Chile with current day Denmark or Canada. Which one would you rather live in?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  111. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Immerman · · Score: 1

    >Better prenatal and childhood nutrition could cut that in half.

    Don't be ridiculous - it'd just mean we had to increase the number of laws and severity of punishment to keep up the quotas. We're not the number one nation for incarceration (by far) because our population is significantly more violent or immoral than most. /sarcasm /sort of

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  112. Re:The long fall to Socialism by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    "'deserve' is used when a person should rightly receive something good or bad because of his or her actions or character." (Merriam Webster)

    It may be best if everyone gets an education, but not everyone deserves an education.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  113. Drop out by shaksys · · Score: 0

    I should finish this semester and stop going to college until its free. I pay out of pocket by working full time too, I could really use a couple of free semesters.

  114. Re:Online article dated Sept 18, 2028 by buttfuckinpimpnugget · · Score: 0

    How in any way is this socialism? I'm an Ancap, unless I'm confused this will be payed for by a privately donated endowment. People can't spend earned money how they want? Who's the commie now?

  115. Re:The long fall to Socialism by shaksys · · Score: 0

    Because taking money from one person and giving it to another (usually for a vote) is morally the left thing to do....

  116. Re:Online article dated Sept 18, 2028 by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

    If only you knew the difference between Marxism and socialism.

    Is the military Marxist?

  117. Re:The long fall to Socialism by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Just ask any of them how smart they are...fucking morons.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  118. Re:The long fall to Socialism by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Private corporations deciding what to publish can't be equated with governments putting people in a cage for deciding how and whom to make love or for what they put into their own bodies. False equivalence.

  119. Re: The long fall to Socialism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    You're missing conscientiousness. That, along with intelligence, predicts life outcomes. Low intelligence, high conscientiousness means you're the best janitor in the building. High intelligence, low conscientiousness means you're a WoW guild leader living in mom's basement. High both and you're an achiever. And human intelligence does indeed follow a bell curve. Facts over feelings.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  120. Re: The long fall to Socialism by will_die · · Score: 1

    USA has the same thing, they are called community colleges. The problem is most people going to college are not there for the degree they are there for the lifestyle.

  121. Re: The long fall to Socialism by kenh · · Score: 1

    Well said. Rice has a large endowment fund and can afford to shift to a model of "tuition paid by rich alums who donate".

    You literally made that motive up - Rice never claimed that was their motive.

    They've got $5.5BN in the bank, they are offering varying grants based on family needs, up to 100% of tuition and expenses. Why is everyone acting like this is something new? Universities have offered tuition assistance to poor/low-income students of merit, the change Rice is making to that program is that they are considering families earning up to $130K/year as "low-income" and deserving of tuition assistance.

    --
    Ken
  122. Re:The long fall to Socialism by kenh · · Score: 1

    If you are twenty and a Conservative, you have no heart.
    If you are forty and a Liberal, you have no brain.

    --
    Ken
  123. Re: The long fall to Socialism by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    Education tracks and trade school seem efficient, evidence in favor of German stereotype. I worry that the tracking might not be fair in practice in the US

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  124. US troops in Germany (or Japan) by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    Maybe keeping the German (and Japanese) military small is worth the money from the US to help prevent a repeat of their historical behavior

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  125. Re:who's actually paying? by kenh · · Score: 1

    Rice's $5.5BN endowment is paying for this.

    --
    Ken
  126. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plasma TVs are obsolete and it's pretty much impossible to find any TV that isn't flat. You can get them at Walmart for $100.

    Wait, what can you get at Walmart for $100??

  127. Re:The long fall to Interstate Highways, clean wat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't even know what you're talking about, reversing tax-cuts is about paying for our shit now. Republicans are all about the transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 0.1% Just like how the motherfucker in the oval office gave himself a tax break to pay for his personal jet.

    The ReThuglicans have been lying about supply side--or tinkledown for decades, and ignorant motherfuckers like yourself still believe it.

    Glad you're into golden showers.

  128. Something said at Rice, eh? by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    We choose to go to college not because we are rich but because it is hahd.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  129. Re:The long fall to Socialism by jezwel · · Score: 1

    Socialism is a system of government. Socialism is not voluntary. Socialism is not "being nice to people." Socialism is organized, legalized, armed robbery perpetrated by people who tell you they're doing you a favor.

    It's all how you look at it. I pay taxes, and those taxes are used in socialist ways: education, aged care, health care, civil infrastructure (roads, rail), national defence, police departments, fire departments, ambulances, subsidised childcare, environmental management, water management, vehicle registrations, navel safety and more. Whew! Well, you know there's a heck of a lot of services provided using those taxes.

    Are you saying these services shouldn't be provided by the government?
    Or that perhaps just the level of service provision should be under scrutiny?

    I look at many of these as preventative services - I'd rather pay a percent of my taxes to educate all children rather than have to feel unsafe due to a high uneducated criminal element. I'd rather have a safe neighbourhood as a result rather than needing a walled in fortress to protect my family and home, or pay for armed security guards. I'd like to know I can let my kids play in a government provided playground and not have to worry about needles or razorblades in the equipment - because that equipment is regularly checked and serviced.

    Should I go on?
    How about knowing that my kids are growing up in a lower lead environment than I did? Less asbestos? Less DDT? Less/no CFCs? Better nutrition through better quality control of food?
    How about food safety and environment regulation - do you care about where something is made, whether the jobs are in your town, state, or nation? How about sustainability?
    More? The entire Defense department.

    All that comes at a cost, and I'd rather have everyone pay so that we get economies of scale rather than try and attempt much of that myself (and fail).

  130. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, even a simple question like "who pays for this" gets modded down now by progressive trolls.

    Or perhaps they are more educated then you.

    How the system works

  131. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 2

    My entire German extended family.

    It is true.

    Well, there are at least two models of the world in which this statement is true. Either your entire German extended family consists of zero people, or they are lying.

    The German education system has a lot of problems, but throwing out students after one semester of "bad grades" is not among them.

    --

    Stephan

  132. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a stupid comment and obviously intended to be. Probably written by a Russian troll to create more division. Since when did doing something good for people become bad? Grow up.

  133. Re: The long fall to Socialism by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    The trouble with socialism is that people love quoting phrases about socialism without actually understanding anything about it.

  134. Re: The long fall to Socialism by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    German 'poors' are routed into apprenticeships, same as their parents were.

    I don't understand your comment and I am sitting in a room full of german Dipl.-Ing (professional engineers) and Doctors who started life as electricians and fitters. Many of them earnt quite a bit more than I did while doing their degrees.

  135. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because one hour of your time googling up the answer doesn't cost me anything. Quite the opposite.

    But I'd guess it has to be the paying customers who pay. You can't really be a top-notch university and have only stupid, rich customers. People would notice Rice graduates are idiots, causing a decline in demand for Rice degrees. Only by camouflaging the paying stupids in a sea of smart (rich or poor) graduates can the university keep selling its degrees.

  136. Low tuition when I wast there ($2,100/year?) by shanen · · Score: 1

    That's why I went there for my first degree. I was accepted by an Ivy League school, too, but Rice seemed the better value. They were still transitioning from the will-breaking that allowed them to charge tuition in the first place. (That was the same thing that allowed them to accept nonwhite students, by the way. I'm pretty sure the will also specified men, but somehow they allowed women anyway, even before they broke the will?)

    Having said that, I'm not too overall impressed by President Leebron, whom I've met once or twice. I think his real priority is to get the money for a law school, which is the last thing Rice (or America) needs. Overall I feel like only the Hack and President Rupp were really putting undergraduate education first, but the other recent presidents have been pushing for growth and research and various other priorities.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Low tuition when I wast there ($2,100/year?) by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 1

      If you were there with Hack and Rupp, then I think tuition was a little higher than $2100/year. Maybe more like $14k. Still, good times.

      I hope they aren't trying to start a law school. Geez.

    2. Re:Low tuition when I wast there ($2,100/year?) by shanen · · Score: 1

      I know it wasn't that much because I was rather aware of money in those days. Worked my way through school. Rupp did start some major tuition increases, but now I realize that you have again failed to read what I actually wrote.

      If you are trying to be annoying, then you are succeeding. If not, then I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.

      In either case, there is no discussion here. Your handle is ringing a bell which makes me think we have had a similar exchange recently, though it's hard to be sure since such failed communication "exchanges" seem to be par for Slashdot now.

      In conclusion: "Go away, son, ya bother me."

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  137. It's the endowment, stupid by shanen · · Score: 1

    Rice has a huge endowment. I think it's second highest on a per student basis. Before he died Rice was supposed to be the third richest man in America (or perhaps the world). No close relatives, so all his money went to the school (after his murderers were caught and the fake will was canceled).

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  138. What is the difference between this and grants by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

    I ended up getting college grants due to bad eye vision and my mothers income from the government when I went to college. Paid for everything. What is the difference?

    --
    Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
  139. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "and is the power house of Europe."
    You do know Europe is speeding towards the brick wall of reality right?
    Germany is ahead of the pack on that one and thankfully I'm in North America most of the year.

  140. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rice is paying. Essentially through their endowment. They have a large, well-invested, and well-managed endowment that throws off a bunch of cash every year. First-and-foremost, they use this cash to maintain the campus, and pay "endowed chair" faculty. Their $5.3B endowment should throw off something like $212M/year, which is more than enough to fund operations. They are giving the leftover money to (the poorest) students. ...
    Presumably the students will give back to the university later on, but Rice can afford for them not to.

  141. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans have had it too good for too long and now need a cataclysm to appreciate how good they have it.
    What they needed was Nixon on Steroids, what they got was Trump light.
    It's really a shame he still held back by the same people behind all of US presidents.

  142. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It is based on aptitude, not income."
    Not when you take into account the wealth of information and experience some have beyond their peers because of their Parent's class advantage.
    To this day my co-workers think I'm from Mars because I can talk about almost anything with authority.
    I read while they thumb their i-phones.
    Sad really.

  143. This makes some sense Re:Where to draw the line? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Your basic idea makes some sense.

    I would make several changes:

    1) Admit more students to any given program that you need, because some will drop out and some will choose other careers. For example, a person training to be a physicist on the government dime might graduate and suddenly have a "calling" to become a high school physics teacher and go to teaching-college on his own dime.

    2) I wouldn't ban non-government-guaranteed loans to students, provided they are willing to do so at non-usurious interest rates. I doubt many commercial banks would offer loans unless the parents put up collateral, but non-profits would likely do so. If memory serves, Benjamin Franklin provided for student loans in his will. Such altruism should not be prohibited.

    3) Students who don't maintain the best grades may lose their scholarships but they should not be kicked out of their programs unless they are actually flunking. A student whose family couldn't afford to send him to engineering school for four years may be able to pay for his final year if his grades slip below "excellent" after 3 years. The number of students who are expected to "stay in the program on their own dime" would be baked into the "freshman class size" calculation above.

    Any such system would also have to factor in things like:
    * People change careers in mid-life, so the number of people you expect to need in any given field 4, 6, or 10 years from now may change in ways you can't predict today.
    * Industries change, which also messes up future-need predictions.
    * People trained in one area can, upon graduation, choose a related field with relatively little additional training. This can leave graduates who are trained in the desired field competing with others who graduated in related fields. It can also leave some fields under-served if their trainees "jump ship" and want to work in a different field.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  144. "Air Condition Force" by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Get a Freon education courtesy of Willis Carrier???

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  145. Re: The long fall to Socialism by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Intelligence is inheritable. Duh. Like I said, 'same as their parents'.

    No, it isn't.

  146. Re: The long fall to Socialism by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Yeah, didn't Russia kick their butt once before?

    Holy shit sweet fucking Jesus on a mopped. WWII ended 73 years ago. The socio-economic context in which that bloody shit show started and ended had little bearing to the socio-economic context of today.

  147. Re:The long fall to Socialism by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    If your family is pulling in $130,000 and you can't afford an education then the problem's in the Universities.

    Maybe those $100 million sports facilities and plasma TVs in every bedroom aren't really needed.

    Depends. A household income of $130K in San Francisco is not the same as the same raw number for a household in Wichita. Similarly, there are other factors to consider. Is $130K the product of two earners, or only one. Does the household has zero kids, one or two, or more. This is important since if there are two earners, then there are additional expenses from cradle to college (in terms of child care during work hours.) And if there's only one income earner, then sure there are no child care expenses, but there is a loss of income potential. Either scenario is affected by the number of kids involved.

    And let us not get started if a household is a single-parent one.

    A $130K household in Wichita should not qualify for free college, but one in an expensive metro might qualify to some form of voucher.

    The money shot is in that line where median income *per locality* is. Households at or below it qualify for free college. Anyone between that point and the top middle income can qualify for some sort of assistance which decreases proportionally as income increases.

    Quite honestly, I would prefer that the first years of college be free altogether, or that we give more preference to apprenticeship and vocational programs as well as associate in science degrees that lead to immediate job opportunities.

    We focus too much in 4-year university degrees.

  148. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FUCKING DAMGED GNARLY DNA

  149. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget the last line of that:

    If you need a trite litany to justify your conservative values, you have no critical thinking.

  150. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    You're missing conscientiousness. That, along with intelligence, predicts life outcomes. Low intelligence, high conscientiousness means you're the best janitor in the building. High intelligence, low conscientiousness means you're a WoW guild leader living in mom's basement. High both and you're an achiever.

    I 'm not certain that conscientiousness is always the right word. While people i have worked with have always considered me as Boy Scout honest, if they had to use a one word description, "ruthless" or "driven" would be more accurate. In any situation, Ipick the most productive person in a group, and do much better.

    And human intelligence does indeed follow a bell curve. Facts over feelings.

    Perhaps. Let us say that we plot average intelligence. And according to your wishes, there is a racial component to it.

    Okay - what are you going to do with that? Are you going to stand 50 feet away from a person of that race and give an accurate truth of their IQ?

    And given that every person I know who believes that IQ is somehow welded to racial characteristics is as white as I am - after determining what you want to do with the "lesser races", remember that the white race is not at the pinnacle of average intelligence.

    The only use of the bell curve is to insinuate intelligence by race, and since racism is that weird majick that allows a mentally challenged terminally unemployed white guy pretend he is superior to a Genius who just happens to be of dark pigmentation and of African descent.

    Whihc is to say, not only useless, but pointless and wrong.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  151. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That trite saying illuminates more about you than it does about socialism's proponents.

  152. Re:The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are forty and a Conservative, you're a lucky/privileged or completely stupid motherfucker, because you've been working your ass off for decades to make the 0.1% richer than ever.

  153. Just some rough number crunching by Contract+Gypsy · · Score: 0

    They have $5.5 Billion, assume no interest income, a student costs $60K a year for 4 years to get a Bachelor's degree. Simple math states $60K*4 years* 4000 undergrads. That comes to a whopping $9.6 Billion cost. You can't count on interest income off that 5.5 bil because interest will go to zip when the market craps out like every democrat says. So, after 3 years were back to tax payers funding the students for free. Classic Socialism at its finest failure mode. I hope their idea works but it just so happens the guy typing this paid his own tuition.

    --
    Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
  154. Re: The long fall to Socialism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    Nobody mentioned race, buddy. That's all on you. Racists are always thinking about race. You just made a bunch of assumptions, constructed multiple strawmen, and then told me that's my position. That's so bad you do that, is that what smart people do?

    Conscientiousness is indeed what we're talking about. It's one of the Big 5 personality traits, along with Openness, Extroversion, Neuroticism, and Agreeableness. If I had to guess, I'd say you're low in agreeableness and openness, since you're quite aggressive and are closed-minded to new information. The Big 5 are replicable science. It's not something under debate. The only debate is if there are six factors instead of five. People who are high in intelligence and conscientiousness will do very well in life. Again, this isn't under debate. I'll just leave this here, but due to your closed-mindedness, I'm not sure how much good it will do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  155. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    It's probably why they forced you into a terminal degree, rather than giving you the option to continue a full GUI/web one.

  156. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But their taxes are much higher, and just wait until the migrants start demanding higher education with lower standards, because islamaphobia or something.

  157. Re:who's actually paying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read the article. Is it really that hard?

  158. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just asked my German wife, as we live in Germany I'll take her word for it.

    It depends on each study course, but there are restrictions if you don't pass your exam. Many of which if you fail once or twice, you're out.

    If you want to study that subject again, you'd need to start over, and likely in another state.

    Being a lawyer is even worse, fail once and your done in Germany, period.

  159. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Nobody mentioned race, buddy. That's all on you. Racists are always thinking about race. You just made a bunch of assumptions, constructed multiple strawmen, and then told me that's my position.

    Wowee.. It's pretty obvious that you can't have a conversation without thinking that mean old uncle Olsoc isn't accusing you of something.

    Siddown. Shuttup for a second.

    Your insinuation that I was accusing you of being racist is interesting. I'm not certain exactly where I wrote that. Kindly point it out my paranoid friend And yes, I do judge, and you fit the paranoia spectrum to a T.

    The reason I brought up the Bell curve in manner related to the use of the bell curve by racists is that it is simply one more completely useless use of the Bell curve. The same as using a bell curve to judge the intelligence of a person born to poor people

    A bell curve of any use whatsoever us 100 percent useless. Pointless. A huge nothingburger. You cannot tell the intelligence of any individual. be they poor white people, or shemale midget scat porn actors by virtue of the fact that they are any grouping of people.

    And note, dear DNS and Bind, I'm not accusing you of being a shemale midget scat porn actor either.

    Point is, the Bell curve is useless, and the only judgement I might make is upon the intelligence of anyone who thinks it somehow means something.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  160. I'm... very impressed, for a change. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is probably the first positive bit of news I've read about university policies in many years. This makes me happy, I hope more educational instutitions follow suit.

  161. Re: The long fall to Socialism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    I note you didn't bother to refute the Big 5. That's because it's science. You're closed-minded and disagreeable, and this makes you reject any idea you didn't come up with yourself. Human intelligence does indeed distribute on a bell curve, just like many other heritable traits. Now, your next argument is to *giggle* insist that intelligence isn't heritable.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  162. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    I note you didn't bother to refute the Big 5. That's because it's science. You're closed-minded and disagreeable, and this makes you reject any idea you didn't come up with yourself. Human intelligence does indeed distribute on a bell curve, just like many other heritable traits. Now, your next argument is to *giggle* insist that intelligence isn't heritable.

    Why on earth would I insist on intelligence not being inheritable. That my dear punchinello, ,is an uncontested fact. My family is largely brilliant.

    Okay - let us cut through your fog. I'll ask a few questions.

    Do you agree with the material presented in Charles Murray's Publication, "The Bell Curve"?

    If yes, what exactly do you wish to do with that bell curve? GIve us a detailed plan of action required to address the Bell curve to make use of it and what it represents.

    I say there is nothing that any bell curve presents that is of any use because it addresses nothing on an individual basis.

    You seem to disagree with that, so educate me.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  163. Re: The long fall to Socialism by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    and are far better than what America does with our academically challenged.

    Being on Fox news isn't so bad.... well... bad for us...

  164. Re: The long fall to Socialism by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1

    It depends on each study course, but there are restrictions if you don't pass your exam. Many of which if you fail once or twice, you're out.

    In most universities and courses, you get about 4 chances to pass an obligatory exam, plus an extra chance when needed. I teach at a place where you only get 2 and 1/2 chances. But maybe we talk at cross purposes - for me, "bad grades" is a C or D (or 3 to 4 in the German system), not an F/5. If you fail the final chance, then yes, you are out - you can go to one of the other two university types (research universities, universities of applied science, cooperative university) and try again. But you don't necessarily need to start over - you can apply to transfer earned credits, and that is routinely granted if the subject is the same.

    --

    Stephan