Slashdot Mirror


Life In the Spanish City That Banned Cars (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a report via The Guardian: People don't shout in Pontevedra -- or they shout less. With all but the most essential traffic banished, there are no revving engines or honking horns, no metallic snarl of motorbikes or the roar of people trying make themselves heard above the din -- none of the usual soundtrack of a Spanish city. What you hear in the street instead are the tweeting of birds in the camellias, the tinkle of coffee spoons and the sound of human voices. Teachers herd crocodiles of small children across town without the constant fear that one of them will stray into traffic.

"Listen," says the mayor, opening the windows of his office. From the street below rises the sound of human voices. "Before I became mayor 14,000 cars passed along this street every day. More cars passed through the city in a day than there are people living here." Miguel Anxo Fernandez Lores has been mayor of the Galician city since 1999. His philosophy is simple: owning a car doesn't give you the right to occupy the public space. "How can it be that the elderly or children aren't able to use the street because of cars?" asks Cesar Mosquera, the city's head of infrastructures. "How can it be that private property -- the car -- occupies the public space?" Lores became mayor after 12 years in opposition, and within a month had pedestrianized all 300,000 sq m of the medieval centre, paving the streets with granite flagstones.
"The historical center was dead," Lores says. "There were a lot of drugs, it was full of cars -- it was a marginal zone. It was a city in decline, polluted, and there were a lot of traffic accidents. It was stagnant. Most people who had a chance to leave did so. At first we thought of improving traffic conditions but couldn't come up with a workable plan. Instead we decided to take back the public space for the residents and to do this we decided to get rid of cars."

Some of the benefits mentioned in the report include less traffic accidents and traffic-related deaths, and decreased CO2 emissions (70%). "Also, withholding planning permission for big shopping centers has meant that small businesses -- which elsewhere have been unable to withstand Spain's prolonged economic crisis -- have managed to stay afloat," reports The Guardian.

224 comments

  1. Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    nailed it

    1. Re:Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by stealth_finger · · Score: 4, Informative

      3. HyperLoop: SF is 83% going to get the HyperLoop according to sources and when this happens you can be almost anywhere in the Bay Area in under 15 minutes. With stops.

      The hyperloop just isn't going to happen. Get over it.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    2. Re:Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. HyperLoop: SF is 83% going to get the HyperLoop according to sources and when this happens you can be almost anywhere in the Bay Area in under 15 minutes. With stops.

      If you are moving to a city on the promise of HyperLoop making carless transportation possible... I'm afraid I've got some bad news for you.

    3. Re:Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 0

      3. HyperLoop: SF is 83% going to get the HyperLoop according to sources and when this happens you can be almost anywhere in the Bay Area in under 15 minutes. With stops.

      The hyperloop just isn't going to happen. Get over it.

      That's what they said about the London underground.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    4. Re:Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Which idiots said that? Given the Metropolitan Railway already existed showing that underground railways were in fact possible with the materials and engineering of the day.

      Unlike trying to build the worlds biggest (by FAR) vacuum chamber with moving parts and people in those parts and of course, which hasn't been demonstrated as actually possible with current materials and engineering.

    5. Re:Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      1. Golden Gate tolls are going to go to about ~$50...less commuters with these prices
       

      Will that be each way or both ways?

    6. Re: Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hyperloop is going to happen everywhere. It's the physical internet.

    7. Re: Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The London Underground did not have to contend with the energy and safety risks of keeping all the tubes under a vacuum all the time.

      They were proposing a Pittsburgh to Chicago hyperloop a year or two ago. Go sketch out on the back of a napkin how much energy it would take to bring a six foot diameter, 450 mi long tube to a vacuum, let alone keep it there. Itâ(TM)s a staggering amount.

    8. Re:Hola and Primer comentario mis señoritas by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Which idiots said that? Given the Metropolitan Railway already existed showing that underground railways were in fact possible with the materials and engineering of the day.

      Unlike trying to build the worlds biggest (by FAR) vacuum chamber with moving parts and people in those parts and of course, which hasn't been demonstrated as actually possible with current materials and engineering.

      The thing with the London Underground is that it was built during a time of great economic and technological change in great Britain where pushing the envelope was encouraged and great men like Brunel were permitted to work with drive and vision uninhibited by petty politics and tabloid backstabbing.

      The politicians of the day simply set a mandate and got the hell out of the way, even if there were naysayers (and I'm certain their were naysayers to the Underground, there always were). In today's age of "populist" politics, politicians are afraid to do anything except stop sticking their noses into where they're not needed. Anything like the London Underground today would have been buried by the Daily Mail today via "tunnels of death" or "90 billion down the tube" headlines.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  2. Isn't this illegal against American Auto laws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I thought the Founding Fathers codified that we can drive our clean burning gasoline Cadillacs everywhere in the world? Methinks it's time to invade this troublemaking region.

    1. Re:Isn't this illegal against American Auto laws? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I'm converting my Lincoln Continental over to Clean Coal.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:Isn't this illegal against American Auto laws? by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Go for it, but you'll have to invade on foot. And be sure to get a cafe latte while you're there.

    3. Re: Isn't this illegal against American Auto laws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thatâ(TM)s a âoehand-crafted bespoke artisan soy latteâ thank you very much.

    4. Re: Isn't this illegal against American Auto laws? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I've went to a Halloween LGBTQ BBQ once ... AMAZING

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  3. Maybe I'll move to Spain by pr0t0 · · Score: 2

    While there are many more, and more important, things to consider; Pontevedra just made my list of cities that I might like to call home one day.

    --
    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    1. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While there are many more, and more important, things to consider; Pontevedra just made my list of cities that I might like to call home one day.

      Not to take away anything from the city, but we have suburbs larger than Pontevedra (which makes its social experiment possible.)

      If you can afford to move and live there, by all means. I just hope you are paying attention to job prospects in such a small city with double digit unemployment rate, with the Spaniard economy experiencing a lot of hurting.

      It would be a nice place for retirement (though not necessarily the cheapest.)

    2. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by ArchieBunker · · Score: 0

      Nobody needs cars because nobody works. Their economy is in the shitter.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    3. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by jwhyche · · Score: 3

      A city with out cars. Sounds like wonderful place to live. I lived outside SF, in Menlo Park, for a year. I didn't own a car during that time. Most things I needed was with in walking distance, and the things that where not where a train ride away. Something that we have tossed by the way side is that if cities are designed properly cars are not needed.

      I read a long time about about a town that was banning cars and legalizing electric golf carts. In down town Memphis we have these electric scooters everywhere. Rent one and off you go. Park it anywhere. My daughter and I where driving in down town yesterday. We saw a guy rent one of these scooters. When we got where we where going, and parked, that same guy came riding through the intersection. My point is even though I had the faster transportation, the guy on the scooter got to the same spot at about the same time.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    4. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The USA tends to have very large, very spread out cities, where this would not work simply because everything is a long way from everything else

      European cities tend to have a relatively small centre, with very high population density, and everything within walking distance

    5. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by rsborg · · Score: 1

      I read a long time about about a town that was banning cars and legalizing electric golf carts. In down town Memphis we have these electric scooters everywhere.

      Golf carts are great, scooters not so much. Unless all your daycare/groceries/parks were really close the need to shuttle your kids & stuff around is a big problem.

      Though to be honest if scooters existed and our culture was more like Japan with respect to school-age kids free to roam, we might just have a sustainable revolution on our hands.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    6. Re: Maybe I'll move to Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... Kids don't need to be 'shuttled' anywhere

    7. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of places this would work in the US. Maybe not the entire city, but certainly big sections of it where people are walking anyway-- like the "historic downtown" section of just about any city on the east coast.

    8. Re:Maybe I'll move to Spain by terrycarlino · · Score: 1
      ,p.The "historic downtown" section of my city contains the court buildings, city hall and precious little else. Oh there's a Dunk'in Donuts and a Subway shop, but if you expect to use their bathrooms you better buy something, because they won't give you the key unless you buy something

      All of the stores, restaurants and bars are spread out among a couple of score of strip malls which are neither within walking distance of each other or any of the suburban like neighborhoods which are primarily built on cul-de-sacs off of main roads, primarily to prevent cars from driving through them.

  4. Great example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we want to make cities and towns more livable, it is possible. Pontevedra has around 82,549 inhabitants and if it works in such cities, it will work in other European places in the same way resulting in better living conditions for half the population.

  5. So just the city Centre ... big deal... by gDLL · · Score: 3, Informative

    So no cars just in the historical Centre ... big deal this is common here in Europe....

    1. Re:So just the city Centre ... big deal... by spth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, looking at the map the pedestrian zone is about as big as one would expect for a European city of this size (c.f.Freiburg).

      Though Pontevedra has the additional disadvantage of having destroyed or having had to destroy their trams system (as was common in Western Europe)

    2. Re:So just the city Centre ... big deal... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Not just Europe - this is common in the US. Every place I've lived has at least experimented with closing off streets to regular traffic to create pedestrian malls. Most people are probably familiar with Broadway by Times Square, for instance. In Philly in the 90s they tried shutting Chestnut St. to traffic but it was a disaster for the businesses. Savannah, Georgia has a pedestrian mall. All of these are or were larger than the little 0.12 sq mile area detailed in this article.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:So just the city Centre ... big deal... by houghi · · Score: 1

      From the article:
      "You can cross the entire city in 25 minutes"

      And for t hose who think it is something recent:
      "On the same streets where 30 people died in traffic accidents from 1996 to 2006, only three died in the subsequent 10 years, and none since 2009."

      And very important:
      "withholding planning permission for big shopping centres "

      So nothing special from a European point of view.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    4. Re:So just the city Centre ... big deal... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      The big deal is making the change. If successful there is every reason to boast about it, no matter how many other examples there are of similar success.

      I see a parallel with the recent community effort to deprecate rudeness at the center of the Linux Community, that is, the Linux Kernel Mailing List. At first there is a lot of shouting from people who regard rudeness as their right. That passes, and everybody benefits. Well, we haven't seen the last part yet but it's rather obvious it's coming.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:So just the city Centre ... big deal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the handicapped and the 200 kg American fatties that can't shop for groceries without a motorized shopping cart? How will they get around the city in 25 minutes?

    6. Re: So just the city Centre ... big deal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Natural selection my friend, natural selection ...

    7. Re: So just the city Centre ... big deal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeez, does every single thread have to be another rip on the original CDR?

  6. Crocodiles of Children by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    Teachers herd crocodiles of small children across town without the constant fear that one of them will stray into traffic.

    Is that really the correct group name for children? A crocodile of children?

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      Interesting, had to look that up:

      2 chiefly British : a line of people (such as schoolchildren) usually walking in pairs

      --
      "Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    2. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This must be like a pride of lions or a gaggle of geese.

      A crocodile of children.

        I Iike it.

    3. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is that really the correct group name for children? A crocodile of children?

      If it wasn't, it is now ... because that's awesome.

    4. Re:Crocodiles of Children by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      Teachers herd crocodiles of small children across town without the constant fear that one of them will stray into traffic.

      Is that really the correct group name for children? A crocodile of children?

      I've heard the terms "a gaggle of children" or a "flock" but I've never heard the term crocodile. But maybe it's used to refer to the snake like form that the groups take when following the teacher...

    5. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Interesting, had to look that up:

      2 chiefly British : a line of people (such as schoolchildren) usually walking in pairs

      Interesting indeed- I am British and spent my life up unto my teen years in the UK (when my various migrations began); I had either forgot that phrase, or it is regional, or obscure.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    6. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I've heard the terms "a gaggle of children" or a "flock" but I've never heard the term crocodile. But maybe it's used to refer to the snake like form that the groups take when following the teacher...

      "Crocodile" is a fun expression in the language, Esperanto too. Crocodile is used as a verb in that language and means to talk in your native tongue rather than in Esperanto.

      Crocodiling is frowned upon at Esperanto meet-ups.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    7. Re:Crocodiles of Children by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Especially when at a zebra crossing.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    8. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A crocodile of children is the correct term for a double line of children walking beside one another with an adult or senior pupil in front and behind( near the rear). A more recent and international version is walkiing but walking buses don't always mean the double lines you would see in a crocodile of children

    9. Re:Crocodiles of Children by TykeClone · · Score: 1

      It is now!

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    10. Re:Crocodiles of Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't seem quite correct to me - I am British and have occasionally used the phrase to mean a long, moving line of people. The pairs thing doesn't make much sense.

      countable noun [oft NOUN of noun, also in N]
      A crocodile of people, especially school children, or vehicles is a long line of them, moving together.
      [British]
      The children walk in crocodiles from the schoolhouse to the dining-room for lunch. ...a long crocodile of coaches.

      https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/crocodile

    11. Re:Crocodiles of Children by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      A crocodile of children snaking their way over a zebra crossing?

    12. Re: Crocodiles of Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iâ(TM)m feeling micro aggressed.

      Hurry, chop off their fingers so I can have my safe space.

  7. I have never yelled because of vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have never yelled because of vehicles. But I live in a country which requires cars have devices to keep them quiet. Perhaps they have no regulations requiring mufflers on cars in Spain. Why not solve that first?

    I do have one question, though. Most car haters expound on how much public money funds automobiles. I'd like to see how dramatically Pontevedra's taxation has dropped. After all, with a ban on cars must come a significant reduction in taxation.

    1. Re:I have never yelled because of vehicles by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      what taxation are you referring to apart from "car parking", the cars still exist.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    2. Re:I have never yelled because of vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a funny guy. ;)

    3. Re:I have never yelled because of vehicles by PPH · · Score: 1

      After all, with a ban on cars must come a significant reduction in taxation.

      Not really. Without cars, more residents will shop in town for the convenience rather than driving out to the big box stores in the suburbs. Prices tend to be higher due to the reduction in competition, so tax revenues don't suffer.

      I feel sorry for the poor people who get stuck shopping in pricier town shops. Seattle is trying this sort of thing (by eliminating parking) in some urban village areas. The unwritten message is, "Poor people GTFO. We want rich hipsters here. The rest of you move to Renton."

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:I have never yelled because of vehicles by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Poor people don't drive, silly!

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    5. Re:I have never yelled because of vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you misread my point. The city's expenditures should be much lower since most car haters suggest a huge portion of city revenue goes to funding cars. If you're correct, the city might be able to eliminate all forms of taxation except sales tax.

      I can't wait to see the results of the experiment.

    6. Re: I have never yelled because of vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you had read the article and investigated you could have found why your smug experiment is groundless. of the town's 10sqmi, only .12 in the center restricts cars. even then, maintenance and construction vehicles are permitted, as well as exceptions for special events. while there is doubtless some reduction in road repair expenses due to light usage in the city center, that would have negligible impact overall.

    7. Re:I have never yelled because of vehicles by PPH · · Score: 1

      Poor people don't drive

      They park more often than not, gas prices being what the are. But in many places, people will lose their housing before they give up a vehicle. It might seem like false economics, but when you get booted out of a rental, you can still sleep in your car. Seattle recently lost a case* where they towed a man's pickup truck. The guy won the court case which stated that his truck, being his residence, was protected by the state's homestead law.

      Go to a few auto/DIY discussion groups and you will find numerous people making plans for eventual homelessness by purchasing and outfitting a vehicle.

      *I think they threw the case. Seattle has always looked the other way in cases of homeless parking. They only enforced laws upon receipt of complaints. Now they can just point at the court and say, "Sorry. They said no."

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    8. Re: I have never yelled because of vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lower fuel tax for a start. Imagine everyone sold their vehicle... taxation will plummet. I guess taxing the sun could compensate somehow.

      I sold my car in spain and all of the sudden i wasnâ(TM)t paying insurance (and its corresponding vat), fuel (fuel tax and vat), tyres/maintenance (with its vat).

      Sooner or later new things will have to be taxed. I hope not the sun.

  8. Language police ? by gDLL · · Score: 1

    Would you prefer bananas of children ? Snakes of children ? Cluster of children ? Gaggle ?

    1. Re:Language police ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Would you prefer bananas of children ? Snakes of children ? Cluster of children ? Gaggle ?

      I think 'centipede' would be more appropriate.

    2. Re:Language police ? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Would you prefer bananas of children ? Snakes of children ? Cluster of children ? Gaggle ?

      I think I would have gone with "rabble".

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    3. Re:Language police ? by PPH · · Score: 2

      A stickiness of children*.

      *Writing this while sitting at a coffee shop table previously occupied by some little kid.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Language police ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have kids. Can get behind this term.

    5. Re:Language police ? by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      ..Scourge

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    6. Re:Language police ? by Jogar+the+Barbarian · · Score: 1

      I certainly hope we don't end up borrowing the term for a group of crows. That would get awkward, fast.

      --
      3. Profit!
      2. ???
      1. On Soviet Slashdot, a Beowulf cluster of alien Natalie Portman overlords welcomes YOU!
    7. Re:Language police ? by Obfuscant · · Score: 0

      I certainly hope we don't end up borrowing the term for a group of crows.

      We don' t have to borrow a term for a group of crows, we already have one. They're a "murder".

  9. Yeah ... not sure that's going to work here by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    There were a lot of drugs, it was full of cars -- it was a marginal zone.

    Not sure that "pedestrianizing" street corners here is going to reduce drugs.

    1. Re:Yeah ... not sure that's going to work here by White+Yeti · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just reduce drug traffic.

    2. Re:Yeah ... not sure that's going to work here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Harder to push drugs with no cars around. No car to hide a stash in. You can run if cops appear, but you can't jump into a car and take off.

      Also, fewer customers. You only get those on foot.

  10. Re:Haha - say hello by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm trying to understand how this works. They make it sound like there's no vehicles of any kind. Pontevedra is 118,3 km, equivalent to a square 10,9 kilometers on a side. Do people walk 5km or so to get into town? Even the elderly and disabled and infirm? And if they buy something in town, walk back hauling that? Even things like furniture? Shops in town, stocked by... 5km hike with a handcart? Can someone explain to me how exactly this works?

    ED: Aha, just read the article:

    within a month had pedestrianised all 300,000 sq m of the medieval centre

    Not the whole city of ~80k people, just 1/394th of the city. 0,3km^2. Just a big pedestrian mall, really.

    Why is this news?

    --
    "Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
  11. Please stay away, American hipster. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is your only warning. We do not need your lazy, entitled blogging around here. We have no need for millennials who contribute nothing but selfies. If you even approach the area, you will be deported. We really should build a wall to keep out bad hombres like you people.

    1. Re:Please stay away, American hipster. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      We really should build a wall to keep out bad hombres like you people.

      Don't forget to make him pay for it.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    2. Re:Please stay away, American hipster. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol fag

    3. Re: Please stay away, American hipster. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All we need is waiters, cerveza y paella!

    4. Re:Please stay away, American hipster. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last I checked the modern Spanish way of life was a huge sense of entitlement.

    5. Re: Please stay away, American hipster. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What'samatta, Linda won't sit in an adjacent bathtub and hold hands with you anymore?

  12. Re:Haha - say hello by Rei · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Even the "car-free zone" isn't actually completely car-free. E.g.:

    If someone wants to get married in the car-free zone, the bride and groom can come in a car, but everyone else walks,” he says. “Same with funerals.”

    They haven't talked about stocking shops, but if they're carving out exceptions like that, then I imagine vehicles for stocking shops also get exceptions.

    There's also the obvious implications of the scheme:

    The main grumble is that the scheme has led to congestion on the periphery of the zone and that there aren’t enough parking spaces.

    Because, of course, people drive to it, then walk around in it, then drive home.

    --
    "Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
  13. The numbers don't lie... by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    "Before I became mayor 14,000 cars passed along this street every day. More cars passed through the city in a day than there are people living here."

    So this is a city of less than 14,000 people. That's a good size for this experiment.

    Now would this work for some of Manhattan? Hell yeah. Brooklyn? Maybe. LA, Phoenix? Nope. For the right size and density yes.

    My only question is how those adorable coffee shops get their supplies daily. Hand trucks? Burros? So a mostly-ban would be probably just as useful as a total ban, and restricting deliveries to very early morning or late night only disturbs the sleep of residents. Small price to pay. \s.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:The numbers don't lie... by spth · · Score: 1

      By your logic, in NYC more than 8.5 million cars pass the street next to the mayor's office daily. While I have never been to NYC, I find that hard to believe.

      Pontevedra has over 80k inhabitants. Apparently those over 80k cars did not all use the street next to the mayor's office.

    2. Re:The numbers don't lie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd expect exemptions for delivery traffic, but even without exemptions there are solutions: An increasing number of people realize that, especially with electric motor assist, cargo bikes are a true alternative, because they work really well in dense city centers. They need less space and average speed is not lower in dense traffic.

    3. Re:The numbers don't lie... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      They could make exceptions for deliveries by EV

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    4. Re:The numbers don't lie... by PPH · · Score: 1

      My only question is how those adorable coffee shops get their supplies daily.

      From TFS: "With all but the most essential traffic banished,"

      Take a look at the picture accompanying that article. There's a car parked on that street. Probably by special permit.

      This isn't a bad idea, particularly in 'historic' towns, i.e. not designed with off-street car parking. Take a look at some videos of the absolute shit that is parking in old European cities. People will actually shove other people's parked cars to make room for their own.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re: The numbers don't lie... by rickb928 · · Score: 0

      Not my logic, my observation based on the article.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    6. Re: The numbers don't lie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly how did you observe this:

      "Before I became mayor 14,000 cars passed along this street every day. More cars passed through the city in a day than there are people living here."

      to state that the number of cars traversing a single street equals the number of cars traversing the entire city? Please show your work.

    7. Re:The numbers don't lie... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Take a look at the picture accompanying that article. There's a car parked on that street. Probably by special permit.

      Which makes me wonder...does the mayor of this town have a special permit?

      IOW, does the "no cars" rule only apply to the peons?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    8. Re: The numbers don't lie... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      You're not asking me, right?

      I was quoting the article...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    9. Re:The numbers don't lie... by thegarbz · · Score: 0

      For the right size and public transport availability yes.

      FTFY. The density isn't as important as the ability for people to get to where they need to go to get about their daily lives. City planing is critical in terms of zoning and public transport.

    10. Re: The numbers don't lie... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      For most of America population density equates to public transportation availability and effectiveness. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    11. Re: The numbers don't lie... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      The article does not state that there are only 14000 people in the city. It does not state how many people there are in the city, or indeed how many cars were traversing it.

      That would be the point the person to whom you are replying is trying to make.

    12. Re:The numbers don't lie... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Oh, another point, city planing is an alternative. Take New York, for instance, which had the foresight to install subways. And then the craven failures to maintain them, which put the city at risk of being unable to, in the near future, actually serve its citizens and workers. Decades of city leadership is responsible.

      People do need to step up and demand better. Again, And again. Just like your kids, telling them once never works.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  14. The division shows. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Cars are a negative influence.

    https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/07/how-cars-divide-america/565148/

    1. Re:The division shows. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, cars let poor people in, and that's why we can't allow cars into Manahattan. Of course, the real intent is to get rid of the black people, but we forget the invisible Latinos who are cleaning at night.

      Yes, it's blatantly racist, but you can't say that, because it's a "liberal" initiative.

    2. Re:The division shows. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cars are racist, or at least cause racism." Citylab is a fucking cancer.

  15. Why honking? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

    I am living in a small town in Spain, similar size to Pontevedra, a few hours away from there and even with a pretty similar name. Here people use cars a lot and honk constantly (why?). I live outside the center, in an almost rural area where there is virtually no traffic. A very calmed neighborhood. Yesterday's night a bunch of idiots were honking for a while during the night!! Why??!! No traffic, no people, nothing to celebrate (don't get the point of these celebrations either)!! Doing it under very specific driving conditions seems logical (I do honk before using the lights when driving, but only as a last resource), but why in any other context? Not even in big cities with lots of traffic.

    --
    Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    1. Re:Why honking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am living in a small town in Spain, similar size to Pontevedra, a few hours away from there and even with a pretty similar name. Here people use cars a lot and honk constantly (why?). I live outside the center, in an almost rural area where there is virtually no traffic. A very calmed neighborhood. Yesterday's night a bunch of idiots were honking for a while during the night!! Why??!! No traffic, no people, nothing to celebrate (don't get the point of these celebrations either)!! Doing it under very specific driving conditions seems logical (I do honk before using the lights when driving, but only as a last resource), but why in any other context? Not even in big cities with lots of traffic.

      I thought that was just a European thing, and that everyone knows they honk their horns all the time. Maybe they do in some of our American cities too, though I haven't really noticed it.

      By a not very interesting coincidence, just this morning I had to honk my horn at the car in front of me that didn't go when the light changed (on his phone I'm sure). Anyway, I mention it because I had to look for a second to figure out how.

      I've only had my car for a year, so I've never used the horn.

    2. Re:Why honking? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      just this morning I had to honk my horn at the car in front of me that didn't go when the light changed

      That scenario isn't precisely ideal (unless the driver of that other car fell sleep or something), but is more or less OK. I mean honking all the time to warn, greet, celebrate... And in a small town!! With virtually no traffic problems! It isn't the end of the world, but seems an unnecessary increase of noise, stress levels, aggressiveness, etc. There should be some let's reduce honking campaigns (kind of kidding, but why not?).

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    3. Re: Why honking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      downtown Chicago, esp. in The Loop area... cars vs taxis vs busses vs peds. fun!

    4. Re:Why honking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that was just a European thing, and that everyone knows they honk their horns all the time. Maybe they do in some of our American cities too, though I haven't really noticed it.

      By a not very interesting coincidence, just this morning I had to honk my horn at the car in front of me that didn't go when the light changed (on his phone I'm sure). Anyway, I mention it because I had to look for a second to figure out how.

      I've only had my car for a year, so I've never used the horn.

      Seems to me that in my part of the USA many people have forgotten that their horns even exist, that or I'm the only one not too polite to honk at the idiot three cars ahead of me who is checking their phone at a green light or something. Everyone else just sits there behind the fool.

      Worst time was some idiot who was going the same way as us and did this at 3 lights in a row, we had to honk at him all three times (or as my friend calls it "waking them up with a dose of vitamin H"). Finally when we got to pass him we honked anyway as we passed him in the other lane when he again was trying to check his phone again at another damn light.

  16. crocodiles of small children by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    "Teachers herd crocodiles of small children across town without the constant fear that one of them will stray into traffic"

    what the fuck is a crocodile of small children? That's gotta be a mistranslation thing. Anyway, let's all not teach our children about the dangers of roads so they can just walk out into traffic when they're older and move away I guess.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    1. Re:crocodiles of small children by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Nope, its not a translation problem, its a line of children, 2 by 2, led by teacher(s) to get from one place to another

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    2. Re:crocodiles of small children by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Oh right, as you were then.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    3. Re:crocodiles of small children by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Nope, its not a translation problem, its a line of children, 2 by 2, led by teacher(s) to get from one place to another

      WTF is the etymology of calling two rows of children a crocodile? Is that the easiest formation in which you can march them into a swamp to be eaten?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:crocodiles of small children by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Animal (and I guess kid) group names in (British) English are wonderfully weird:
      A shrewdness of monkeys
      A business of ferrets
      A conspiracy of lemurs
      A shadow of jaguars
      An unkindness of ravens
      A risk of lobsters
      An audience of squid
      I kid you not...

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    5. Re:crocodiles of small children by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Seems very whimsical and stereotypically British.

      I just use "bunch" to describe all of those.

    6. Re:crocodiles of small children by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Nope, its not a translation problem, its a line of children, 2 by 2, led by teacher(s) to get from one place to another

      WTF is the etymology of calling two rows of children a crocodile? Is that the easiest formation in which you can march them into a swamp to be eaten?

      A single file queue of people is referred to as a snake. Stands that a double file line would be something also reptilian, larger, and not quite as agile.

  17. shout? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    People don't shout in Pontevedra -- or they shout less

    Just how loud are cars in Spain?

    1. Re:shout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Only as loud as the rain on the plain.

    2. Re:shout? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Just how loud are cars in Spain?

      Apparently their right-of-way arbitration involves use of the horns. Constantly.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  18. The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The whole city is the size of a typical shopping mall. There are no cars inside shopping malls - for the same reason.

    1. Re: The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have no idea. I lived in Spain for 8 years. Pontevedra isn't an outlier, most Spanish towns are already heavily pedestrianised and this was just the final step. This is the way modern towns and cities in the EU in general are going. Cars in town and city centres are just a waste of space and people's time.

    2. Re:The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not true. I lived in a much larger city near Pontevedra for 18 years, and visit Pontevedra often whenever I go home. The pedestrian-only area that they are talking about is pretty large and has many streets. You can easily get lost in it.

    3. Re:The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They say 300k m^2, it is roughly 550x550 m. It is indeed larger then a typical mall but quite comparable.

    4. Re: The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no cars inside shopping malls - for the same reason.

      There are sixteen cars inside my local shopping mall, as well as three trains, two airplanes, and whatever number of those things that the Mallcops ride on to patrol that they have.

      You can Aaso ride two white horses, an octopus, and Tammy who works at the Gap.

    5. Re:The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by A+Hollow+Mockery · · Score: 0

      omg I just had a great idea...

    6. Re: The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I visit Spain often and I have to agree. The way cities are managing car / pedestrian interaction is incredible and varied. Lots of town planers are currently looking to Barcelona for their trial of the superblock concept:
      https://www.theguardian.com/ci... which effectively eliminates thoroughfare on many roads.

    7. Re: The whole centre city is the size of a US Mall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only because your unemployed broke asses cannot afford to buy a car anymore ;-)

  19. This is wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think everyone that would want to live that way should go ahead and move there and enjoy the serenity.

    No really, get the fuck out of here.

  20. Re:Haha - say hello by quantaman · · Score: 1

    Not the whole city of ~80k people, just 1/394th of the city. 0,3km^2. Just a big pedestrian mall, really.

    Why is this news?

    If you look around with Google Street View at what I assume is the proper location you can see a few delivery and other construction vehicles, but otherwise it's a lot of foot traffic.

    The one thing I'm curious about is residents, if the city centre is all tourist and business than you can make do with foot traffic. But do residents with cars need to park outside the boundaries?

    --
    I stole this Sig
  21. I can see this working for Spain by DatbeDank · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    With a youth unemployment rate of 50% and a siesta that lasts half the day, no wonder this is working well.

    No one does any work in Spain, so it makes sense that banning cars works in this town.

    1. Re:I can see this working for Spain by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I cabn see this working in Spain. Not because of the unemployment rate, nor because of your misunderstanding of the siesta.

      I see this working in Spain as people in Spain tend to be out of their house more than several other countries.

      I have visited several Spanish cities where cars where not a thing in the center of the city. And in many European cities, traffic is either banned or discouraged.

      I work in the center of Brussels and they have turned on of the main streets into a pedestrian zone.

      In Leuven where I live, they have devided the city in 5 parts, so driving from one part to another you need to go out of the city and back into it. That encourages people to take a bicicle or walk.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    2. Re:I can see this working for Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have they tried with poison?

    3. Re: I can see this working for Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also has pushed traffic to the perimeter and beyond, causing more congestion there, and has increased CO2 and PM10 output because cars now drive longer distances in more congested streets.

      I can see discouraging cars needlessly traveling through the centre, but that should at least have been accompanied by an improvement elsewhere.

      Meanwhile hundreds of buses belching black diesel fumes still pass through the centre daily.

      That's what you got when a barely educated socialist warden has been ruling the public roads for over a decade.

    4. Re:I can see this working for Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I am wondering is how you would visit such a city? Is there a giant parking lot next to it?

    5. Re: I can see this working for Spain by DatbeDank · · Score: 0

      Proved my point again, seeing as Brussels is a city loaded with do nothing unelected bureaucrats with bloated 6 figure salaries it makes sense that removing vehicle traffic works.

      Meanwhile, in places that are still relevant to economic growth officials don't try silly things like this because they're working to improve the lives of their citizens by not regressing to pre 19th century lifestyles.

      I've lived extensively in Europe and all I see are billionaires placating the masses with lowest common denometer public programs designed to tax the working class heavily and keep them appeased enough to not chop their heads off.

      Sadly, it works hence why bone headed plans le this work. T'is the benefit of being a vassel state to America.

    6. Re: I can see this working for Spain by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      I've lived both places, too.

      This sort of plan could work very well in the US. I wouldn't mind parking on a perimeter and having a walk, even in -10F winters. I like to support local businesses because they're my neighbors, my community, and I don't have to deal with rotten online customer "support". The big boxes hold only price/selection as an advantage. I'd rather the profits go locally.

      It's nice to sit in front of a family owned restaurant on a quiet day when the trucks aren't belching smoke, the coal-rollers are absent, the race-to-the-next-stoplight-on-my-crotch-rocket-children are gone, and there might be a songbird nearby, or a musician on the corner.

      The politics aren't in question, rather, fealty to paying the Koch Brothers their gasoline/petrol/diesel due. I know it's contrary to The American Way to get exercise by walking from place to place, but it's certainly less expensive than alternatives, public or private.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    7. Re: I can see this working for Spain by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      The trucks are still going to be there, unless you plan on the restaurant only serving water?

      Industry in general can't work without road access. If it's not trucks, then it'll need to be rail. The kind of city you envision is only suitable for service industries and consumer businesses. That means jobs will be outside the city's boundaries (if they exist at all), and people will need to commute out to get to work (probably with a car).

    8. Re: I can see this working for Spain by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      IN all of the pedestrian zones I've seen across the continent in the EU and the US and Canada, trucks still get through. They have to. Even in Istanbul.

      Commute? Take a train or bus. People in many parts of the world don't consider buses to be creepy. They're clean, run on time, are inexpensive, and are fairly well planned.

      Pedestrian zones can be large or small. I wish there were more. Supply chain issues can be dealt with easily and readily. Visit some to understand how logistics work, and what the benefit is. Carry an umbrella. That's as bad as it gets.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    9. Re: I can see this working for Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The streets in Brussels that are blocked for traffic are filled with tourists.

    10. Re: I can see this working for Spain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >This sort of plan could work very well in the US. I wouldn't mind parking on a perimeter and having a walk, even in -10F winters. I like to support local businesses because they're my neighbors, my community, and I don't have to deal with rotten online customer "support". The big boxes hold only price/selection as an advantage. I'd rather the profits go locally.

      This sort of plan could work well in the US if everyone is you. They are not. I don't like walking in the winter, though I do anyways. I have no interest in supporting local businesses for being my neighbors. I don't consider them any less a part of my community than Walmart (especially since all the Walmarts I've been do have a board listing all the local things they donate to), and my experience with in person support in local stores when things go sour is "Eff Off". The small stores have poor selection and high prices, which means I don't find the things I want and have to drive a long way all the time to get them. Small stores also offer crappy job security and no way to be promoted. I don't care where the profits go so long as they aren't supporting exploitation and ridiculously illegal things, and while people dislike Walmart, they aren't murderous thugs nor do they directly employ slaves.

      >I know it's contrary to The American Way to get exercise by walking from place to place

      Well, at least you agree that we aren't all you.

      >It's nice to sit in front of a family owned restaurant

      No thanks. I am not interested in wearing sunscreen if I don't have to.

      >and there might be a songbird nearby

      If I had a bullet for every bird that wakes me up at 5 am because my neighbor put out a bird feeder...

    11. Re: I can see this working for Spain by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      1. Don't walk in the winter, or live nearby. Or move south.
      2. Order online what you can't find. This is easy in most places.
      3. Do stay inside if you want. That fresh air stuff is deadly.
      4. If the sounds of nature don't enthuse you, do indeed stay inside. To me, they mean the environment's healthy. That's good for you in both direct and indirect ways.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    12. Re: I can see this working for Spain by DatbeDank · · Score: 0

      People in many parts of the world don't consider buses to be creepy. They're clean, run on time, are inexpensive, and are fairly well planned.

      Sorry, I had to go replace my keyboard since I spat my water out all over the place laughing at this.

      If riding the bus doesn't incentivize you to improve your station in life, nothing will.

      Excuse me while I finish my day and hop into my clean, European sports car, that I get to ride when I want while you wait for the bus.

    13. Re: I can see this working for Spain by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your privilege.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    14. Re: I can see this working for Spain by DatbeDank · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, you can take solace knowing my taxes pay for your privilege to ride the bus amongst the other dregs of society.

    15. Re: I can see this working for Spain by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      You should join us, oh holy, revered maker of moolah. We shall sprinkle rose petals upon your path to the bus stop, and shall stop our awful flatulence so that your journey will be pleasant. May the heavens shine upon you. We are unworthy of your tax dollars. I'm so sorry to have disturbed you with my miniscule commentary. Be blessed, oh rich one! Be blessed!

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    16. Re: I can see this working for Spain by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      No thanks sweetheart, but I do appreciate you reducing your quality of life. Makes it easier for people like me to enjoy more creature comforts!

    17. Re: I can see this working for Spain by houghi · · Score: 1

      Delivery will be done during the morning hours and ONLY for delivery. e.g. from 7:00 till 10:00

      I work in the center of Brussels and do not even own a car. Remember that public transport is a thing.
      I know of one company that has deals with the public transport company, so more busses drive between the station and their HQ. They will pick up the tab.

      At another place buses stopped at 20:00, but we worked to 21:00 and we looked into extending the bus hours. In the end it was cheaper for the few people to take a taxi. So for more than a year I took a taxi form work to the train station. Paid by the company.

      Now there are more people working there, so bus frequency has increased and hours have been adapted.

      Yes. Some people still go to work by car. The thing is that there are alternatives. Friend of mine ownes a car, but rather uses the train than the stress of sitting in a car where the mile costs money. Public transport is paid at least 40% and of 100% by the company.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    18. Re: I can see this working for Spain by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you addressed my comment. It's certainly fine for service and consumer industries, but other industries need deliveries more often than once a day.

    19. Re: I can see this working for Spain by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      While I really dislike moving, I would move out of that place. If I need to go somewhere, I will only walk there if it takes me 5 minutes or less. If not, I'll drive. Even if driving would take longer.

      I guess I would walk (or use a bike) to work only if the commute time was taken out of my work time. So, I work 8 to 17, so I go out of my home at 8 and go out of the office at whatever time so I can reach my home by 17. As it is now, I'd rather drive (takes me 5-10 minutes) instead of taking up my own time for a slower method of travel. Oh, I would walk somewhere that takes longer than 5 minutes in the summer only if I had a portable AC - my home has AC, my car has AC and the office has AC - I do not intend on staying anywhere at 28C (or even 25C) temperature for a second more than I absolutely have to.

      And if I get into a traffic jam or whatever, it's still better than walking (even if it takes the same amount of time) because I can sit in my car, with AC or heat on and not having it rain on my head.

    20. Re: I can see this working for Spain by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Where I live, it takes me 5-10 minutes to drive to work. If I took the bus, I would have to first walk to the bus stop, wait for the bus, then walk from the bus stop to the office. It would take me much longer than 10 minutes. As nobody is paying me for that time (or rather, my work hours do not account for the time to get to/from office) I'd rather drive. Especially considering that I can go home for lunch and I can go to a store etc after work or during lunch hours. Oh, and I sometimes have to drive to a client, sometimes delivering heavy servers.

      Also, if I get to the bus stop 1 minute late, I have to wait for another bus. If I get to my car 1 minute late, I arrive at work 1 minute late.

      Even if the time taken for both options was similar, I would still drive. My car has AC to use in the summer and heat for winter, so even if I am in a traffic jam, I do not get hot or cold. There is no AC for walking to the bus stop and at the bus stop and not all buses have AC. I do not particularly like to be completely drenched in sweat because its 28C outside and I spent 30 minutes (walking to the bus stop, waiting for the bus, in the bus with no AC etc). Even if AC in my car fails, I still can open windows or just use the fan to somewhat cool myself down. Oh and I get to the AC cooled office (or home) faster.

      And in my car I can listen to whatever music I like at whatever volume I like.

      The only time I would use public transport if it took me at least 5 times longer to drive there, but then I would seriously consider finding a new job in a better accessible location.

  22. Re:Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    still a nice idea. I think if you build a city with proper public transport and actually shut down the roads ( I mean like tear them up and put in trees) starting with the most congested area's and then working outward, this could really be a green and human alternative to the modern city. Maybe even adding some more innovative public transport like walkways with Segway's / foot taxi's Elevators cars that could take you to different places.
      Walking is healthy for you, reduces stress, and eliminates pollution. Of coarse the trick to any large systemic way is to have a strategy to phase it in so that people can adapt to it.

  23. "herd crocodiles of small children across town" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This phrase makes no sense to me. How is it they are "herding" the crocodiles? What relationship to they have with the children? Is this a 'custom' in Spanish towns? My brain cannot construct a matching mental image.

  24. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Gornkleschnitzer · · Score: 5, Funny

    By the way less CO2, is less food for the trees...

    Wow, how on earth did trees survive before we built cars, then!?

  25. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your gustatory quantification apparatus needs recalibrating

  26. Hmm 300,000 sq meters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Taking the square root I get a square with a side length of about 550 meters or 600 yards. Not very large at all. Sounds to me like the banned area isn't the entire city, but instead a small area in the center.

    So what's the point of the article?

  27. Re:Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    In Groningen, in the netherlands, they did something similar a *long* time ago. You can drive your car into the medieval center, but you can't drive *through*. The city center is divided into 4 quadrants, and you can't get from one quadrant to another without first going to the edge. Also there's hardly any parking.space inside. There are cars in the city, but not many.

    Still has the same problem of extra busy edges, but still I think it's a success.

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkeerscirculatieplan_Groningen (in dutch)

  28. Car compared with motorbike noise ( was Re:shout?) by nicolaiplum · · Score: 1

    Car engines are not the noise issue.

    Cars in Spain are as loud as anywhere else: not very, unless modified by the owner to make more noise than it did when it left the manufacturer.

    Motorbikes and scooters in Spain are as loud as anywhere else in Europe: loud or very loud. In particular, small motorbikes are very much louder than cars.

    I strongly suspect that the decrease in ambient noise volume is from two things, neither of them being car engines:
    Removing the Spanish drivers and their horn buttons from the town, and
    removing the scooter and motorcycle engines from the town.

    --
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
  29. I can see the headlines now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A crocodile of children.
    I Iike it.

    Me too. I can just picture the headlines: "A crocodile ate a crocodile of Children whilst on a school trip to Kenya."

    "Gaters vs. Crocks. In a tragic turn of events, while visiting Walt Disney World in Florida a crocodile of children was consumed by a crocodile of alligators."

    "Pythons consume a crocodile of children while visiting the Everglades."

    1. Re: I can see the headlines now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Python consumes a crocodile of RAM while loading the runtime.

  30. Might work for their situation, but by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    If they really had 14,000 cars or so traveling through there daily, where did all that traffic go? Surely it wasn't all local traffic. I have to assume his move to ban cars from passing through just increased the traffic in surrounding areas, as people were forced to detour around it.

    This doesn't seem like a very workable plan for many cities. He might get away with it as long as he's a lone exception to the rule. But as soon as you have a few adjacent cities trying to pull it off, you're going to create some real traffic problems and effectively roadblock travelers from passing through that part of the country.

  31. Re:Haha - say hello by magarity · · Score: 1

    Pontevedra is 118,3 km, equivalent to a square 10,9 kilometers on a side. Do people walk 5km or so to get into town? Even the elderly and disabled and infirm?

    You don't have to walk 5km to get to town because you're already in town when you're at the walking only zone.

  32. In a large city like NYC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we should build skyways and give the city back to pedestrians. Or we can cut ditches for the cars and buses.

    1. Re:In a large city like NYC by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Ditches wouldn't work because of all the underground infrastructure. However, leaving the ground level to cars and building a network of elevated walkways into 2nd floor storefronts would work. Moving the cars up isn't ideal because then the pedestrians no longer have natural light, not to mention it's more expensive to put the heavier thing on a level above the lighter thing.

      Each city block would have an elevator. To prevent the obvious problems with that, there should also be a restroom next to said elevator.
      The ground floor storefronts would still exist / be accessible by going downstairs. Bicycles can use the old sidewalks as bike lanes.

    2. Re:In a large city like NYC by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I've thought of that, crowded cities should have separate levels for vehicle and pedestrian traffic so they don't have to stop for each other. Problem is, all the main entrances to buildings are now on the level that would become the vehicle-only level.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  33. Re:Haha - say hello by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

    According to the map, an average American mall has more area than where the cars are not allowed.

    I know some people are trying to bring back the mall+residential concept here in order to keep malls from dying. The difference here is that Pontevedra is the city center instead of the middle of fucking nowhere.

    This would make sense for any city that has never been rebuilt since the invention of cars. But it doesn't make for a useful model on existing major cities.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  34. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Immerman · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Increased CO2 boosts crop yields, but reduces the nutrition level, for a net loss.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  35. explanation by gDLL · · Score: 1

    they use to put us in pairs that hold hands and walk like soldiers behind the pair before yours. Easy for the teacher to count you every 5 mins.

  36. Opposition? by GregMote8590 · · Score: 1

    I have no idea what âoebecame mayor after 12 years in oppositionâ means or implies and Google is giving me nothing helpful.

    1. Re:Opposition? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      became mayor after 12 years in opposition

      It is a direct translation from Spanish. "Estar en la oposición" ("being in the opposition"?!) refers to the political parties which aren't currently in power. So, the sentence means that the guy was elected mayor after having lost all the elections during the previous 12 years.

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    2. Re:Opposition? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      Logically, I meant "was elected major".

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    3. Re:Opposition? by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but is that a thing in Spain? It makes sense in the US federal or UK national government, but most local governments aren’t big enough for there to be an “opposition”. Either you win, or you lose, but the losers don’t have anything like the “minority leader” position found in the US House or Senate.

    4. Re:Opposition? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      It is just a convention. You are either ruling or "in the opposition". It doesn't necessarily mean that your party is actually having a relevant impact or is part of a coalition which has it. There might be 10 parties, 2 ruling and 8 "in the opposition", 5 of them really having coordinated actions against the government and 3 behaving independently, but also being called that. This is at least my understanding of the concept, by bearing in mind that I don't care too much about politics.

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    5. Re:Opposition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      generally they do
      opposition parties (with sufficient votes) will still have seats on the city council,
      just that major's party (and coalition partners) will have a majority of the seats

    6. Re:Opposition? by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      It works like that in my country. Both the national governments and the local (city) governments have a majority coalition and an opposition. If a party got some seats and does not like the party who is forming the coalition, then it will be in the opposition.

  37. What about repair and maintenance people? by Hasaf · · Score: 1

    I spent several years fixing copiers and printers. I have also worked in the HVAC industry. When I see these car free articles my first though is, "what about maintenance and repair?"

    1. Re:What about repair and maintenance people? by Admiral_Grinder · · Score: 1

      Ug...again...really? Does this question have to come up everytime. When I see these car free articles and this question always comes up, my first though is "It isn't a total band. Not everything can be done by bicycle (but damn near it). The work truck industry will be fine. It will just be less cars to fight with in traffic, and also easier to find a parking spot." We are trying to de-emphasize the need for personal automobiles to transport 1 or 2 people short distances. Public transportation will still be around, delivery trucks will still be around.

    2. Re: What about repair and maintenance people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repair of the cars that are not around? Or perhaps you mean read repair on the roads that aren't heavily worn by traffic?

    3. Re: What about repair and maintenance people? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Umm. No, he means repair of things like copiers and air conditioning units - you know, the things he actually mentioned in his post.

  38. Other cities like Florence by Monoman · · Score: 2

    We visited Florence once and found it much more pleasant as a pedestrian tourist because of their traffic restrictions.

    https://www.visitflorence.com/...

    --
    Keep the Classic Slashdot.
  39. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by theendlessnow · · Score: 1

    And they were cold, very cold. Much warmer now. Trees are happier now, just ask one.

  40. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They want to add weed :-
    https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/09/17/a-deal-with-coca-cola-could-make-aurora-cannabis-t.aspx

  41. Re: Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. In Spain, everyone walks, a lot, even the elderly. One of many reasons why Spaniards are healthier than Americans. The 3-4 hour lunch break also means that Spaniards can and usually do have home cooked lunches - far healthier and cheaper than packed lunches, takeaway, or eating out. Oh, and there are supermarkets and markets within a short walk of just about everywhere people live. I really miss living in Spain.

  42. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Idiot.

    I am a tree. A Silver Birch to be precise. If you make it warm I will die. My children will wither. It's not like we can move so easily.

    Fuck off. Idiot.

  43. Re:Haha - say hello by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Informative

    Pedestrianized zones in city centers are common across Europe. It's typical to see 'loading hours' in the early morning when delivery trucks and garbage collection can roam. Emergency vehicles and police tend to get a free pass so the roads need to be passable.
       

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  44. ORLY? Going non-car isn't free either. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    The city's expenditures should be much lower since most car haters suggest a huge portion of city revenue goes to funding cars. If you're correct, the city might be able to eliminate all forms of taxation except sales tax

    ORLY? Near the end of the quoted part of TFA we find:

    Lores became mayor after 12 years in opposition, and within a month had pedestrianized all 300,000 sq m of the medieval centre, paving the streets with granite flagstones.

    That was in 1999. They granite-paved more than 17 square kilometers. Any bets on whether they're still paying it off a generation later? Or how many times they paid for it when you include interest?

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  45. Re:Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one thing I'm curious about is residents, if the city centre is all tourist and business than you can make do with foot traffic. But do residents with cars need to park outside the boundaries?

    I spent six years living in Singapore where the taxes are such that only rich people can afford cars. And I was absolutely miserable taking public transportation. The public transportation was horribly overcrowded and, as expected, everyone was always sick and coughing and sneezing on each other. And also absent-mindedly picking their noses and flicking the boogers aways onto neighboring passengers, etc.

    Now I live in Los Angeles with an hour commute each way to work. And compared to Singapore it's absolute heaven. I'm usually able to park my car about 20 feet from my apartment. And on my commute I can crank up the AC to be pleasantly cool (in Singapore I would arrive at work drenched in sweat and have to change all my clothes) - maybe relax singing along to some Enya. And then I can park about 50 feet away from where I work. And if I'm feeling a bit sleepy after lunch I can go out to my car and take a nap to finish out my lunch break.

    And then when I go grocery shopping on weekends I'm not trying to carry a weeks worth of groceries with me on a succession of crowded standing-room-only public busses. Or if I want to take the family somewhere fun for the weekend, it's not an epic journey of transferring between four different public busses to get where we're going. We just all climb into my nice little air-conditioned car and are able to have a cozy quiet conversation together while we get where we're going quickly and efficiently by car.

    For me, having a car is absolute heaven compared to the years I was forced to rely on public transportation in Singapore.

  46. Oops. Not that big. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Oops. Slipped a decimal point - by more than one. (Should have used a calculator.) It's only a little over half a square kilometer., not 17+

    Still,crash-programming a granite repaving of half a square kilometer isn't cheap, either.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  47. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I'm a Colorado Quaking Aspen. I can't reproduce by sex any more, only by cloning. PLEASE turn up the heat.

  48. Re:Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...shut down the roads ( I mean like tear them up and put in trees)...Walking is healthy for you, reduces stress, and eliminates pollution...

    So when your house is on fire and the fire department walks on over with whatever hoses and equipment they can comfortably carry, I'm sure you'll feel good about the reduced stress and eliminated pollution. :)

  49. 15 minutes plus extras by petes_PoV · · Score: 2

    you can be almost anywhere in the Bay Area in under 15 minutes. With stops.

    15 minutes transportation time. 2 hours to get through security and another hour to find some to park near the hyperloop station

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  50. Perfect for electric scooters, then! by thedarb · · Score: 1

    They're quiet, not really a car or motorcycle... Hrmmm, seems like Bird should suddenly show up and take over! ;)

    --
    This sig intentionally left blank.
  51. Why not Superblocks? by rsborg · · Score: 2

    While there are many more, and more important, things to consider; Pontevedra just made my list of cities that I might like to call home one day.

    Not to take away anything from the city, but we have suburbs larger than Pontevedra (which makes its social experiment possible.)

    If you can afford to move and live there, by all means. I just hope you are paying attention to job prospects in such a small city with double digit unemployment rate, with the Spaniard economy experiencing a lot of hurting.

    It would be a nice place for retirement (though not necessarily the cheapest.)

    No need to go that far away - probably most of the benefits of going car free can be had via superblocks - https://www.theguardian.com/ci...
    I always thought being able to drive directly into my house garage was a massive luxury with clear exernalities like road noise, traffic danger and increased pollution, and honestly if I could instead park away from my house and had to walk there to take my parked car (or more likely, public transit or taxi), I'd consider it a good tradeoff (esp. considering kids would be safe from traffic in that superblock)

    The Catalan capital’s radical new strategy will restrict traffic to a number of big roads, drastically reducing pollution and turning secondary streets into ‘citizen spaces’ for culture, leisure and the community

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  52. Re:Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Same with funerals.

    Yes, the cadaver would have a hard time trying to walk...

    And can't they just sell stockings at the supermarket? *Our Leggs fit your legs...*

  53. Good fucken job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I'm there is always some jerk to park the damn think and idle engines to eternity, wtf people turn that shit OFF!

  54. Re: good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it was never about CO2. It was an is all about regulating industries out if existnce. I even had on if the cronies say it to my face because he knew I couldn't prove what he said to me. Environmental regulation is a linchpin to how they go after industry, jobs, wealth and your while way of life really. It was never about the environment. These are the same people that detonated nukes in the upper atmosphere ffs.

  55. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by jensend · · Score: 0, Troll

    A lot of the trees just a few miles from me are presently on fire after yet another severe drought year due to climate change.

    I imagine that probably doesn't make them happy. I'm disinclined to closely approach a burning tree to ask.

  56. what the fucking fuck ?? by gDLL · · Score: 2

    What in the fucking vuck is rudeness and the kernel and the SJW religion got to do with congestion mitigation in the real world ?? Thou shall bow before the all powerful all knowing townhall planners ?

  57. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the chestnuts here that are dying off since so many more of the specialized insect pests killing them survive the warmer winters? They expect my state to be chestnut-free in just a few years.

  58. Cobblers by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    When I see these car free articles my first though is, "what about maintenance and repair?"

    In a pedestrianized city? You are clearly talking a load of old cobblers.

  59. Spent most of yesterday at the DMV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They make a VERY good argument for a car-free lifestyle.

  60. Or 300km square? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rather than 300,000m2 300 km 2 would be about 15km a side, 10 miles.

    1. Re:Or 300km square? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back to school dude. 550 * 550 = 302500. 302,500 if it's too hard for you. Square meters. Like in article.

      Square kilometer is 1000*1000 m, 1000,000 square meters. Got it?

    2. Re: Or 300km square? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To me, it was written 300k square meters, not 300 square kilometers. See the spac between k and m ? Before being pedantic, learn to read

  61. Re: Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does it feel, punching mother nature in the face?

  62. bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The whole city is the size of a typical shopping mall. There are no cars inside shopping malls - for the same reason.

    45.68 sq mi is the size of a typical shopping mall. Bullshit much?

  63. Re: Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does it feel, punching mother nature in the face?

    Ha ha, that's actually pretty funny!

    But, seriously, all this nonsense about re-usable shopping bags and forcing people to use public transportation, etc. is totally missing the point. If people were really serious about reducing the impact of the human species on the planet then there is one thing that totally eclipses everything else: the total human population.

    If you really care about the environment then it's all about providing people in developing countries with the education and resources to avoid unplanned pregnancies - and also about pushing back against certain evil organizations that encourage people to have large families.

    In a sane world, it would be people who have lots of children (and people like the pope who encourage them) who are asked how it feels to be punching mother nature in the face.

  64. Chilling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "owning a car doesn't give you the right to occupy the public space" -- but it is public space.. am I not part of the public? Oh wait... nm... public space = state space that the public is privileged to use at the discretion of the state.

  65. Just one problem... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    When you go to pick up a date, you have to _literally_ pick her up!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Just one problem... by An+Ominous+Cow+Erred · · Score: 1

      If you can't physically lift your date, either you are very weak or she is very large...

  66. Gross noise polluters by markdavis · · Score: 1

    >"With all but the most essential traffic banished, there are no revving engines or honking horns, no metallic snarl of motorbikes or the roar of people trying make themselves heard above the din -"

    And banning motor vehicles is way overkill. A modern, in-spec, unaltered car or motorcycle makes very little noise. I would say 90% of typical vehicle noise comes from illegally modified exhaust systems, ancient and/or very poorly maintained vehicles, modified stereo sound systems with huge speakers/amps, and large/commercial vehicles (dump trucks, buses, package trucks, semis, etc).

  67. Re: good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No it was not due to climate change, or at very least not human climate change (some areas of the planet are ecperiencing very slow climate change because thats just how it is). You know nothing about climate, get over it.

  68. Re:Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is strange that shops selling stockings would get a special exemption.

  69. Blame it on Smokey, not climate by mcswell · · Score: 1

    The out-of-control fire is because of fire prevention; fire prevention that led to lots and lots of burnable stuff all over the place. Had there been ordinary small forest fires every few years, this wouldn't have happened.

    1. Re:Blame it on Smokey, not climate by Maelwryth · · Score: 1

      It is possible there is a special situation where you are posting from but I am not sure why you would think this, at least for large scale fires. In general once a fire gets big there is not much you can do about it. Efforts tend to go to trying to slow it down and steer it away from habitations with firebreaks and back burning and so on but it is really just working around the edges while waiting for the fire to either run out of fuel or rain to come. The vast majority of the forest just burns. They may be out of our control but then they always were. If you are referring to loss of life and property caused by regulations limiting the removal of vegetation from around buildings then yes, this has happened but in terms of forest fires it is a minuscule percentage of the actual fire. I think you are overestimating the efficacy of firefighting. Once the flames get over a certain height there just isn't much you can do about it. Additionally, we probably get more fires now due to humans so the whole out of control fire is due to fire prevention theory doesn't ring true to me.

      --
      I reserve the write to mangle english.
    2. Re:Blame it on Smokey, not climate by jensend · · Score: 1

      How exactly do you claim to know that about the fire I'm next to?

      People can argue about that for many fires, but not for the one near me. The area I'm talking about had low amounts of residual fuel. It has hit pines and aspens, but the period when it spread most rapidly was crossing areas with grasses, sagebrush, and scrub oak, none of which are thinned out by "ordinary small forest fires every few years."

      All 5 of our hottest 5 years on record have happened since 2012. The fact that we're experiencing a drought is not a coincidence. This area was not like the forests you have in mind and would not have been burning like this, especially in September, in a year when we had a remotely normal climate.

    3. Re:Blame it on Smokey, not climate by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      Amazingly the area I live in was in a great drought during the 1990, when the rest of the planet had a decline in temperature increases, which coincided with a skipped sunspot cycle. Right now we're experiencing an unusually wet year. I guess that means there is no climate problem.

      Claiming that is as silly as claiming that you can use a period of seven years in a hundred year measurement of a six billion year timeline and draw a conclusion from it.

      I've a better proposal. We're in an interglacial period, the Holocene, specifically the Meghalayan which began around 2250 BC. The world has been warming up since then and the glaciers have likewise been receding since then.

      Perhaps California's wildfire problem is due to human overpopulation and the diversion of water from it's natural repositories for the purpose of growing non-native plants.

  70. Re:good story destroyed by CO2 by mcswell · · Score: 1

    I don't eat trees, and we don't have any giraffes in my neighborhood.

  71. Re: The whole centre city is the size of a US Mal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We can afford them we're just too busy watching avocado stepmom porn and killing ourselves.

  72. And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... What are all your lifetime's accomplishments worth, if you die on the toilet? :(

  73. Re:Haha - say hello by An+Ominous+Cow+Erred · · Score: 1

    You're basically bringing up the big problem with the American mall. A lot of American malls are named "Blahblah Village" or "Blahblah Town Square" -- but what is a village or town without RESIDENTS? American malls are basically hamlets without the "ham" (in this case, they etymology of "ham" being a cognate for "home").

    If you stack apartment buildings on top of a shopping mall, you get a traditional walkable village with the added benefit of climate control. Your mall will now never become a dead mall because it has its customer base built-in, and nobody needs to drive on a daily basis because most of their daily needs are within walking distance (and if they work in a different mall-town you can easily build quick transit between them).

  74. Re: The whole centre city is the size of a US Mal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's still a two-bit town where you can run all sort of "experiments" you want, because the results do not scale up. REAL cities are another matter.

  75. Re: Haha - say hello by An+Ominous+Cow+Erred · · Score: 1

    A common misconception is the idea that those pregnancies in other countries are "unplanned". In most human cultures (and in most species), maximizing offspring is a good thing -- it increases the survivability of your species/race/culture/family. It's only in certain very wealthy cultures where the value of the individual has eclipsed the value of a family that people no longer want to reproduce. Even then in these wealthy cultures, many older individuals wind up spiraling into depression because they don't have children or grandchildren.

    That's why some third world countries have incidents where they violently oppose vaccination programs -- because sometimes someone starts a rumor that the vaccines are secretly including contraceptives. People still want to have 10 children to make their family and tribe strong with many providers/fighters.

  76. Re: Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we can go to the mall to be stared at by the angry old lady, hear a couple upstairs getting in a fight and Eddie the wino stumble around drunk again.

    I suppose in your happy authoritarian rule home town we can just arrest those who cause a disturbance to the businesses.

  77. Re: Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you care about the environment then you will sacrifice a human(s) regularly.

    The population is out of control and mother gaya is sick if it. She was fine with charging 10 cents more for plastic bags, but that was yesterday. What have you done for me today?

    Just like that Abraham fellow, she needs you to bring her some blood, any body will do.

    To make the adjustment easy, start sacrificing your prisoners and Democrats. Once those are cleaned up you can move onto your loved ones.

    Next up, in order to be a better person, you need to own less things. Non materialistic people are just better. Also, we may not sacrifice you until later if you demonstrate how much better of a person you are. So take those possessions and toss them in the trash or flat out burn it up. After all, recycling is mostly just burning garbage.

    I think this could be the start of a better world. Dont forget to take an axe to anyone who disagrees ... you are doing the lords work after all.

    Stay woke and broke!

  78. Re: good story destroyed by CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trader Joes has some good deals on chest nuts. No need to worry.

  79. Re: Haha - say hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything is better in Spain.

    I was just robbed and it was a far superior experience to any theft in the United States.

    Dont get me started on how much better it is being out of the job and living on the streets of spain. You really havent lived until you wake up in your filth on some street and then proceed to deficate publicly.

    I know some people claim they can do the same thing is San Francisco, but it doesnt sound nearly as pompous as doing it in Spain!

    Life is defiantly more fulfilling over here and that isnt all due to the worms.

  80. Re:Haha - say hello by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    The problem (at least where I live) is that the malls themselves are located in places where nobody wants to live. Who wants to live in a warehouse located 15 miles (and 45 minutes during rush hour) away from the city center? You couldn't build enough housing to make a mall self sufficient. These things usually serve communities of tens of thousands, and are designed to attract tourist/shopping traffic from as much as 100 miles away.

    There is a dying mall near me that is less than 15 years old, and it is so big that it has to be located outside of the suburbs. Their theory was that "if you build it..."

    Turns out nobody came. And there aren't any mass transportation routes or even realistic highways near the thing, so nobody wants to live in or around it. Hell, I just want them to hurry up and bulldoze the thing so they can stop running the lights over the empty parking lot all night. Its a light pollution eyesore.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  81. Re: good story destroyed by CO2 by jensend · · Score: 2

    All five of the warmest five years on record in my area have been since 2012. The fact that we're experiencing an extreme drought is not a coincidence. This area would not be catching fire, especially in September, in a year when we had a remotely normal climate.

    Facts are stubborn things. You can stand outside at noon in the noon and deny the sun exists - "no, there is no radiation, or at very least not solar radiation, you know nothing about radiation, get over it" - but you will still get burned.

    There can be plenty of legitimate disagreements about what responses to global warming are appropriate. But claiming it's not happening, in the face of a decade of record temperatures and melting ice, or claiming it has nothing to do with us, in the face of obvious science about what CO2, methane, etc do and the fact that we've doubled their atmospheric concentrations in the past 70 years, is simply delusional.

  82. Ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure some things are out of some context that I'm missing, but this sounds too easy.

    > "Before I became mayor 14,000 cars passed along this street every day. More cars passed through the city in a day than there are people living here."

    Well then Mr. Mayor, this sounds like terrible planning. It sounds like your city's in the way of people from not around here, trying to get somewhere else.

    > "How can it be that the elderly or children aren't able to use the street because of cars?"

    For the same reason cars aren't able to use the sidewalks. They're both there to serve different purposes, and using one where the other is intended will give you results you might not like.

    Again...I'm missing context. 'cuz otherwise it doesn't sounds like the intellectual elite are being voted in over there. But then, where does *that* ever happen...but that's another story.