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45 Out of 50 Electronics Companies Illegally Void Warranties After Independent Repair, Sting Operation Finds (vice.com)
U.S. PIRG -- a non-profit that uses grassroots methods to advocate for political change -- found that 90 percent of manufacturers it contacted claimed that a third party repair would void its warranty. "PIRG researched the warranty information of 50 companies in the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM) -- an industry group of notorious for lobbying to protect is repair monopolies -- and found that 45 of them claimed independent repair would void their warranty," Motherboard reports. From the report: PIRG poured over the documentation for 50 companies such as Bissell, Whirlpool, and Panasonic to document their warranty policies. When it couldn't find clear language about warranty and repair, it reached out to the companies via their customer service lines. The overwhelming majority of the companies told PIRG that independent repair would void the warranty.
The 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that no manufacturer who charges more than $5 for a product can put repair restrictions on a product they're offering a warranty on. In May, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission sent warning letters to Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, HTC, Hyundai, and ASUS for violating the act by threatening to void the warranties of customers who repaired their own devices. Within 30 days, many of the companies had complied and changed the language on their websites around independent repair. It was a step in the right direction, but the PIRGs survey of the AHAM members shows that there's still a lot of work to do.
The 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that no manufacturer who charges more than $5 for a product can put repair restrictions on a product they're offering a warranty on. In May, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission sent warning letters to Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, HTC, Hyundai, and ASUS for violating the act by threatening to void the warranties of customers who repaired their own devices. Within 30 days, many of the companies had complied and changed the language on their websites around independent repair. It was a step in the right direction, but the PIRGs survey of the AHAM members shows that there's still a lot of work to do.
But Whirlpool, Bissell, and other makers of Home Appliances are not necessarily "Electronics Companies". Sure, they make things with electronics IN them, but a washing machine is more than just a circuit board.
Try asking the following companies about their warranties:
Dell
Toshiba
Samsung
Apple
Intel
Vizio
TCL
JVC
Get back to me when you have the results...
Captain Obvious has spoken? Who expected something different when so many companies are busy using virtual bricks and virtual mortar to defend their walled garden? The first revenue stream is the purchase. The second stream is repair. If you doubt this I'd suggest you read up on how American farmers are not allowed to repair their tractors/harvesters/etc. because the manufacturers have managed to pass legislation preventing it. What was a 100K+++ purchase that isn't repairable by the owner is now trickling down to the average joe/jodie.
https://boingboing.net/2018/09/11/tenant-farmers-2.html
Read it and weep.. this is what is coming =P
Peace out.
We have a proud and strong industry of craftsmen (and -women) who employ a large part of our population and students. Nobody here gives a shit about "certified" craftsmen. There is only one certificate. That of passing the government exam, and getting to call yourself a master and teach and employ others. Its standard is high enough, that nobody would consider the company-certified shops higher. They would not be seen as the pros.
So this shit would die at our doorsteps at the very least. Hopefully they try it here soon, so that we can kill it for you guys. :)
I'm with you on the first part. If a product is repaired with a faulty component, it can cause worse failure that the manufacturer shouldn't be obligated to correct.
Which leaves one to wonder, which companies didn't comply?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Probably 23 billion for the lawyers, and a $5 coupon for each consumer!
if they want to do then warranty needs to be at least 2 years.
Not everything is covered under most warranties.. If I decide to replace the icemaker in my fridge after my kid broke it, I shouldn't lose the compressor warranty because I repaired a part my kid broke that has nothing to do with the other parts.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
Because otherwise, too many manufacturers wanted to overcharge by crazy amounts for routine maintenance under threat of voiding warranties. So, for example if you decided to change your own oil for a few bucks rather than pay the stealership $100 to do it, they would try to not honor the warranty on your transmission even though you didn't touch it.
So now they have to prove you damaged it if they want to void the warranty.
This does not mean they have to fix it for free if you screwed it up yourself.
I used to work in the Tech Support Department for a budget gaming system manufacturer called iBuyPower. We were instructed to tell customers that they were out of luck if they broke their systems when installing their parts that we sent them (if they opted for self-repair). The warranty excluded physical damage, and used that excuse alot. The company provided no instructions or guides, we offered only basic call by call instructions. After customers broke their system most would opt to send the systems back to us and the billing department would charge them (with an generous mark up) on replacement parts and return shipping. Ive seen some systems (costing $700) get charged $300 for parts and shipping. It was a racket. Oh I could tell you stories. Truth be told i'm glad i moved on and up in the world.
Thanks Steve Jobs for making phones throw away items when the battery gets shot or when an update slows it down. Sure it legally is under warranty but time to buy a new one if you want a good charge and is not slow as a dog
http://saveie6.com/
my parents bought me a Panasonic video camera when in on holiday the USA. It broke after a few months. Panasonic in the UK refused to fix it claiming that they were different than Panasonic USA. The reason is that they charge different amounts in different regions and work hard to preserve that. Multinationals exploit global price differences to their advantage and prevent the consumer from doing likewise.
I will never buy anything from Panasonic in the future -- I'll reward honourable companies (if I can find any).
To my knowledge, they aren't. But if the replaced part had nothing to do with the new fault, then they can't say "hey somebody else has replaced part A, we are not touching it, the whole thing is contaminated now, even this part B, and out of warranty"
The complete list of tested companies can be found in this PDF (page 22);
https://uspirg.org/sites/pirg/...
As usual the list is missing from tfa.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
"The 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that no manufacturer who charges more than $5 for a product can put repair restrictions on a product they're offering a warranty on."
It says no such thing. It basically says that warranty terms must be spelled out clearly, and a warranty can't be conditioned on use of name brand parts or service unless they're provided free under warranty.
The PIRG report deliberately misleads:
...but the Act actually says:
...they very deliberately skipped the part about stuff provided without charge under the warranty in order to mislead.
Yes, a manufacturer can tell you who you must get work done by, but only if that work is covered for free by the warranty. They can also say you can't use 3rd party replacement parts, if parts are provided free under the warranty. You don't have to use the manufacturer's oil filters on your car, unless they provide them free during the warranty.
They can also "void" the warranty if the product is modified, which is perfectly reasonable. If you add a turbo to your car's engine and it blows up, the manufacturer shouldn't have to cover it under warranty.
The MMWA is rather short. It's not a hard read. People should do so instead of thinking the bullshit in the summary/article is anything close to accurate.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Where I live, warranties are 5 years by law - for products generally meant to last that long. 2 years otherwise. Not really a problem for corporations - they set prices so that profits covers the expected amount of returns. Trying to peddle real cheap shit is a great way to go bankrupt tho.
I purchased a new, in original box, never opened Neato Botvac D5 Connected robot vacuum from a very reputable seller on eBay. After a month, the device stopped working. Neato tech support determined there was a circuitry problem and that the device should be replaced under warranty. Unfortunately, they would not honor that warranty because I had purchased it from an unauthorized reseller. Even though I had the original box, all the accessories, they acknowledged it was brand new and the serial numbers from the box and device matched, they would not honor the warranty because of where I had purchased it. Luckily, the seller accepted the return of the device and issued me a refund. But, he shouldn't have needed to do so. Can Neato legally get away with that?
Not everything is covered under most warranties.. If I decide to replace the icemaker in my fridge after my kid broke it, I shouldn't lose the compressor warranty because I repaired a part my kid broke that has nothing to do with the other parts.
The type of warranty you are talking about is an ideal, and it benefits consumers more than the seller/companies/corporations. So what makes you think that companies/corporations would do that?
A warranty is a type of "all or nothing." The warranty doesn't cover each part separately but rather the whole (product). Thus, if you mangle with one part without their permission (authorized repairer), then you void the warranty. I believe this type of warranty has been used for a very long time. It would be stupid for companies to warranty each piece inside their products because they would lose money quickly.
That may be true, but what if during the repair you did something that trickled down and impacted other components? Is the manufacturer still liable for the components that you incidentally broke?
I wonder what they poured.
Nice external link.
https://motherboard.vice.com/e... ?utm_source=reddit.com
Ha ha ha. That's a new one for me.
To my knowledge, they aren't. But if the replaced part had nothing to do with the new fault, then they can't say "hey somebody else has replaced part A, we are not touching it, the whole thing is contaminated now, even this part B, and out of warranty"
This came up in the early days of the Mac mini, which was ostensibly "sealed".
When people figured out how to open the case and upgrade the hard drive and/or memory, Apple issued a statement that said that doing so would NOT void the warranty, so long as you didn't damage anything in the process.
Now, no snarky comments about "At least they could upgrade..." That wasn't the point, and you all know it.
'Poured over'. Ha, ha! Illiterate gobshites.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Because installing a new radio won't cause the engine to catch fire. But they (the manufacturers) will claim that it did.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I *here* that loud and clear.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It's a shame that this law doesn't apply to agricultural equipment... Farmers continue to be bound by monopolistic right to repair restrictions that limit them from doing all but the most basic maintenance on their equipment.
Could the person upgrade? Yes?
Did Apple void the warranty? No?
Wtf are you talking about then. And the last part is the WHOLE POINT, don't try to hand wave it away. The user being able to repair his device IS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT!!!
Here here!
That may be true, but what if during the repair you did something that trickled down and impacted other components? Is the manufacturer still liable for the components that you incidentally broke?
No, of course not, but they would have to prove that, it is EXTREMELY fucking unlikely, so they would need EXTREME fucking evidence to have that hold up in court.
Not everything is covered under most warranties.. If I decide to replace the icemaker in my fridge after my kid broke it, I shouldn't lose the compressor warranty because I repaired a part my kid broke that has nothing to do with the other parts.
I agree with you. However, playing devil's advocate, how can I be sure that the new icemaker didn't cause a power surge that damaged the compressor?