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The New and Improved MacBook Keyboards Have the Same Old Problems (theoutline.com)
Casey Johnston, writing for The Outline: Apple never actually caved to user complaints that its top-of-the-line computers developed sticky or dead keyboards very easily, despite having now been served with several keyboard-related class action lawsuits. In June, the company offered to repair computers with these keyboards for free for four years following the date of purchase (the cost of being without their computer notwithstanding). It claimed only a "small percentage" of users were affected. I was one of them, several times, and there were many, many others. Compared to this time last year, its computer sales are down ten percent, and not a few people have been holding off on purchasing any computer from its line in fear of getting stuck with a keyboard that doesn't work.
In July, Apple slightly redesigned the very low profile butterfly keyboard on its MacBooks and MacBook Pros, not because "a small percentage" of the previous version was rendered useless by a speck of dust, the company said, but to make it quieter; it even invited the tech press to try it out. iFixit teardowns of the hardware revealed that, in fact, Apple had added a silicone membrane under the keys that looks quite a bit like it's meant to keep dust and debris from lodging under the key and locking it up. Was that the idea? No, Apple unequivocally said. [...] But checking around online, it appears the new keyboards have the same old issues. They may be delayed, but they happen nonetheless. The MacRumors forum has a long thread about the the "gen 3 butterfly keyboard" where users have been sharing their experiences since Apple updated the design.
In July, Apple slightly redesigned the very low profile butterfly keyboard on its MacBooks and MacBook Pros, not because "a small percentage" of the previous version was rendered useless by a speck of dust, the company said, but to make it quieter; it even invited the tech press to try it out. iFixit teardowns of the hardware revealed that, in fact, Apple had added a silicone membrane under the keys that looks quite a bit like it's meant to keep dust and debris from lodging under the key and locking it up. Was that the idea? No, Apple unequivocally said. [...] But checking around online, it appears the new keyboards have the same old issues. They may be delayed, but they happen nonetheless. The MacRumors forum has a long thread about the the "gen 3 butterfly keyboard" where users have been sharing their experiences since Apple updated the design.
like anyone cares some whiny millennial had a problem and feels like he is entitled to all kinds of compensation and extra hand holding?
If the keyboard isn't working then just use the touch screen.
You wouldn't get a keyboard at all.
Ever since Cherry has been making keyboard switches, there is no reason to use anything else.
Buy one. I recommend Blue. Plug into your computer. Throw away old keyboard, whatever it was.
Problem solved.
Louis Rossmann at https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ is an unauthorized repairman for Macbooks and has some very interesting comments about them. He also has many youtube videos on the subject and anyone who if planning on buying a Macbook might want to visit his site for some very informative comments.
Baffles me why people put up with these overpriced Apple issues.
and then when they showed it, there were 1000s of cockaroaches. Your keyboard is dead because you have 1000s of roaches. The kind with legs.
The original Apple ][ used Alps keyswitches, which were even better than Cherry's at the time. And they were individually replaceable. Unfortunately, they're taller than most of today's laptops. Heck, just the movement on a good keyboard is a significant part of a laptop's thickness.
Form over function rules these days, it seems.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
The first step in Reparative Therapy is to get rid of all Apple devices. Only then can the repairing truly begin.
It seems to me there are times when you'd like your computer to be utterly dead silent during use. That's great if you have to type in abject silence. There are times though, when you WANT your computer to make all manner of clickety clackety racket, (or maybe YOU don't, but I sure do!) especially while you're banging away on a keyboard, which is why I own a Unicomp Model M, and am typing on it right now. I just wish it were possible to attach it to my iPad, that'd be SWEET! Unfortunately, they don't make a Bluetooth one. Bear in mind, it's not a fake, "Cherry MX," imitation of a real, buckling spring keyboard, it really IS an honest-to-goodness, buckling spring keyboard, powered by the same technology as was behind the original, classic IBM PC clickey-style keyboard.
It's such a joy to use... and yeah it's a little noisy, but when I press a button, I need to know anyone nearby KNOWS I have just pressed a button. To me, the sound of a keyboard clicking and clacking away is to computing what a collection of rhythmically-creaking bed-springs are to a fun and entertaining bedroom.
I wonder if there's such a thing as keyboard porn what am I saying of course there is, per Rule 34 of the Internet! I should make a point of checking that out. (Without looking, (I promise I haven't, but you'll just have to take my word on that,) I bet there's a book called "The Joy of Clicks..." and if there's not, there NEEDS to be.
And no, I do not receive compensation for endorsements, nor am I in any way affiliated with the company that makes or sells these; I'm just a fan. (Just grep pckeyboard.com using your favorite search engine if you're interested, or just navigate straight to the site.)
As for Apple and their keyboards, the last several computers I bought all came with Apple keyboards, PRE-BUTTERFLY-DEBACLE, and I'm thrilled to NOT have to deal with the tactile NIGHTMARE that one of those keyboards is. I've tried out the one on the MacBook Pro and MacBook Nothing, or whatever, the 12" overpriced thing they're trying to get people to buy, and ended up going with a computer that was the last acceptable, (to me,) usable portable Apple made, a MacBook Air, because I can tolerate that keyboard, the screen's big enough to be useful, it's light, and it still has, (or at least HAD, don't know about now,) real, actual USB ports on it for connecting my existing peripherals. I don't DO USB-C, because, god damn it... I don't have to, so hence I won't.
If (and I've said this before repeatedly,) by the next time I need a new computer, Apple hasn't pulled its head out of its corporate ass, I will simply buy something else, replace all my remaining Apple stuff, and leave for good and all. I hope other people feel like I do about this and let Apple know, either directly, telling them, or indirectly, by voting with their pocketbooks to show Apple that they're headed down a wrong path, towards increasingly making crap no one ends up liking, wanting, or even being willing to tolerate being compelled to buy as part of the 'price' of owning a new Apple product, like that flat, crappy, godawful keyboard of theirs.
UGH! NO. Just ever so much NO.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
...Apple may have lost their core laptop customers forever anyway. I've purchased and used three Apple MacBook Pros over the last 11 years but here are 20 reasons why I won't be buying any more of them. Three external USB back-up hard drives, one Epson flatbed scanner, one Epson label maker that refuses to work on my network, two USB optical drives, SD cards use in 3 security cameras, SD cards used in two quad copters, two SD cards used in MP3 players (auto and portable), one Canon VIXIA camcorder, one Canon EOS T3i, one GoPro Hero 3+, an iPhone 6 and an iPhone 8 that need updates and back-ups from time-to-time, and a USB light I use regularly for video calls. It is sad to see any company, especially Apple, with their heads shoved so far up their ass that they can't see the needs of their current and future customers.
Now that I said that, I fell better.
I picked up a refurb 2016 Macbook, it was hard to find a machine which was nearly as light, with a full keyboard, nice touchpad, good camera, sound, etc.
I figured it was a lot of whining haters going on their circle twerk of apple hate, but no, let me spare this from anyone considering a Macbook:
The keyboard is SHIT.
I mean, COCO-model 1 shit. Timex Sinclair shit. One of the worst keyboards in computing history shit. I miss my disposable Acer Cloudbook keyboard.
I can't return the Macbook, and there's not much out there to return it for except another cloudbook or something. So I'm getting a keyboard condom and a can of compressed air.
Today my fucking Apple key went wonky. With a tiny fleck of eyelash or something in there, I can't feel or hear it click and half the time it wouldn't register anyway. Even when it works, any keys which take a long reach, like function keys or escape or whatever, are much harder to feel.
The fact that it's a sealed unit and there's no way to clean it, and Apple has let this go on for years?
To the people who told me that the keyboard is great, they type much faster, blah blah... Fuck you, you're deluded.
I suspect the same thing that happened to Microsoft is is now happening at Apple, i.e. corporate politics and not the customer experience or the product starts to drive everything. (I used to work at Microsoft).
The
I suspect it has more to do with Apple not wanting to totally reengineer the 2016/17/18 Macbook Pro until the next Gen is due. They are just making it limp along until the next redesign. They have enough cultist fans that will still buy them. My 2017 MBP is a piece of junk - my 2013 is really a much nicer computer to use (and I still use it for everything other than work). My next machine will likely be Linux-based, as Apple is really fairly openly hostile to the Mac user base at this point.
You certainly paid enough for it!
The MBP kills me. What kind of "Pro" product won't let you upgrade even the memory or the hard drive? After 3 years, they'll clearly have much faster, larger NVMe SSDs that would breathe new life into the laptop. But no, they made their own custom interface, and do weird things with the very few 3rd party options on the 2015 models. Newer models won't even let you swap them out. They've ripped out all the useful ports (gig ethernet!) with just a pair of thunderbolt and usb ports and require dongles for everything else, because dongles look so professional. These are only marginally more expandable than their iPads.
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We'll know if that's true when they finally unveil their so-called "low-cost MacBook Air replacement" laptop. If it also has those fucking butterfly hinges, you'll hear about a lot of people dropping Apple and switching to Windows and Linux.
#DeleteFacebook
according to the apple zealots the users are at fault for eating in the same room as their laptop.
Why should apple pay for that?
Hard lesson to learn that people hate apple for reason. You should have listened to the haters instead of the apple cheerleaders.
This, kids, is why you don't buy hardware that can't be obtained from multiple vendors.
I have an early 2011 MBP. When that thing dies buying a new Apple MBP will be a big step backwards in usability and enjoyability. So I'm already paying more attention to Linux and laptops from other brands to get used to the fact that one day I will be forced to leave my beloved MacOS behind.
The same holds for my iPhone and iMac BTW.
-- Cheers!
I think whoever was responsible for this keyboard screw-up is reluctant to admit it, and Tim Cook is not man enough to call them out.
I think what happened, is that after the keyboard debuted (in the 12" MacBook, in 2015), they thought they could get the reliability up. They figured they'd simply chip away at the problem until they're near the original keyboard its reliability numbers. But that turns out to be a lot harder.
I have the feeling that is happening elsewhere as well. Look at how the CPUs are developing, or the RAM size. SSDs seem to keep improving in Apple laptops, but progress on other components is a bit... lackluster.
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I stopped caring about this. The hardware retains its value quite well. When I want to upgrade, I simply sell the machine and get a new one with the specs I want.
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I own and use a 12" MacBook and a 15" MacBook Pro. Both have intermittent sticky key issues. On the 12" the comma stayed down for a couple of months and Apple refused to recognize this, because when they inspected it the key magically went back up. Not sure I have the patience to go fix it if they replace the keyboard and the same problem repeats. Will wait for a better fix.
Using external keyboards for now.
I always read about those apple problems, issues etc. And only had a defective battery one time in an iPhone, while I have and have used many apple devices, including the laptops with those key problems. Cross fingers, should go to the casino.
... wish even more Jobs was still alive. Cook can't kick ass like Jobs did and never will be able to fire the lousy management that decided crappy is good enough for today's high end Apple hardware just because it's cheaper. We will sadly witness the slow demise of Apple ....
Bach says it all.
With the serious keyboard quality problem in the current Apple laptops, the resale value will plummet to near zero on these models. Who wants to spend much to take on some other user's problem?
Stop eating and dropping bits of sh*t on it, you pig - seriously. That aside, the keyboard is pathetically frail for a 'premium brand' anything, which is a real shame because it's a hugely capable & stylish laptop (IMHO) if you need OSX.
It's still a valid complaint.
I work for an employer who bought dozens of these new Macbook Pro 13" models to deploy to our creative professionals. So far? I've only had one person complain about keyboard issues, and he was one of our I.T. guys. (To be honest, he's kind of rough on his gear anyway. His Windows laptops he's had in the past are always scratched and dented up and covered with stickers, etc.)
I have one of these new Macbook Pros too, and although I don't use it as my primary machine, I do take it with me on the go fairly regularly. So far, no keyboard issues on mine either.
So based on our experiences, I can't say the new keyboards are an absolute failure or disaster, by any stretch. But clearly, they're not the most durable things around either. And just as bad, in my estimation, is the difficulty typing on one of them due to the tiny amount of key travel.
As a general rule, Apple makes a lot of products that are about style as much as substance. But with that seems to come an expectation that the user is really protective about the styling/appearance too. You have everything from touch-screens that need constant wipe-downs with micro-fiber cloths to avoid fingerprints all over the place, to iPhones made with glass and easily scuff-able metals that practically require being put in a case to preserve their beauty. I think now, we're getting to the point where the laptops have the same expectations about their daily use. EG. Don't ever eat anything around them and wash your hands before typing on them, so you don't get crumbs in them.
As much as they cost, I tend to be at least somewhat respectful of them and handle them with kid gloves. But they really need to be able to withstand a bit more abuse, or else they're not going to be what many people choose when they spend this much money.
not a few people have been holding off on purchasing any computer from its line in fear of getting stuck with a keyboard that doesn't work
Alternatively, not a few people have decided that overpaying for average-at-best and generation-old-at-worst hardware isn't necessary. I'm not saying they've finally realized that Apple treats non-mobile users as second-class customers, they just have no real reason to upgrade until some arbitrary OS update isn't available for their computer because the sales guys wanted to spike numbers this quarter.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
Apple doesn't really care what you think, not unless there is an uproar that completely embarrasses the company into doing something differently.
From this new Macbook issue, and it's overly-sized trackpad, to iTunes bugs that remain unfixed to this day... you can clearly see they have a narrow vision. They want you to want what they want, not the reverse.
Main problem with MacBook keyboards: Embedded in a MacBook.
Really easy fix - just tell the user not to treat their laptop like a fucking place mat in a greasy spoon diner. I've had at least a dozen personal Apple laptops over the years and tested and worked on thousands more. Never had a key go bad on any of mine, and any time I've ever seen a problem with a user's keyboard, they were 99% of the time a slob who spilled food crumbs and who-knows-what-else into their keyboard and track pad. If you insist on treating your precious technology like a baby's bib, then get a cherry switch keyboard you can stick in the dishwasher once a week and put a vinyl cover over the built-in keys. Easy peasy.