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Google To Charge Smartphone Makers For Google Play in Europe (reuters.com)

Google will charge smartphone makers a licensing fee for using its popular Google Play app store and also allow them to use rival versions of its Android mobile operating system to comply with an EU antitrust order, it said Tuesday. From a report: Google, an Alphabet subsidiary, announced the changes on Tuesday, three months after the European Commission handed it a landmark 4.34 billion euro ($5 billion) fine for using its popular Android mobile operating system to hinder rivals. The company said the licensing fees will offset revenue lost as a result of its compliance efforts. "Since the pre-installation of Google Search and Chrome together with our other apps helped us fund the development and free distribution of Android, we will introduce a new paid licensing agreement for smartphones and tablets shipped into the EEA," Hiroshi Lockheimer, senior vice president for platforms and ecosystems, said in a blog. In a blog post, Lockheimer wrote: Second, device manufacturers will be able to license the Google mobile application suite separately from the Google Search App or the Chrome browser. Since the pre-installation of Google Search and Chrome together with our other apps helped us fund the development and free distribution of Android, we will introduce a new paid licensing agreement for smartphones and tablets shipped into the EEA. Android will remain free and open source. Third, we will offer separate licenses to the Google Search app and to Chrome.

We'll also offer new commercial agreements to partners for the non-exclusive pre-installation and placement of Google Search and Chrome. As before, competing apps may be pre-installed alongside ours. These new licensing options will come into effect on October 29, 2018, for all new smartphones and tablets launched in the EEA.

149 comments

  1. between the lines by micahraleigh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    When companies pass gov fees downstream ... they are greedy robber barons.

    And that is just so obvious, we will hide that, I mean, we don't have to say anything about that here.

    Move along ...

    1. Re:between the lines by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with them doing this?

      They outlined the reasons and they make sense.

    2. Re:between the lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When companies pass gov fees downstream ... they are greedy robber barons.

      This is normal... universal... behavior, and anybody imposing those fees should know that. They just don't care.

    3. Re:between the lines by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

      Nothing is wrong with it, but they take so much weird criticism over it.

      If I have more personal expenses in my personal life, I might get a higher income job or work more hours. No one throws tomatoes at me over it. Some probably would I guess.

  2. What do people expect? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For big companies such large fines rarely if ever get paid, if they do there are tricks to get the people who fined them to pay them for it.

    Sure for a normal guy like me a fine of $100,000 would be enough to set me back and lower my standard of living for a long time. But I wouldn't have much recourse, After the verdict is finalized. I either pay a fine or go to jail.
    However for a company like Google, 5 billion dollars would hurt them a little bit, however they have resources to work around it. Turing a free service to a paid service. Knowing that they are a monopoly because there isn't much competition will just mean they will get paid for a service they use to offer for free.

    --
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    1. Re:What do people expect? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      For big companies such large fines rarely if ever get paid

      Wishful thinking. Historically, Microsoft never avoided paying its fines on either side of the Atlantic, just to name one.

      if they do there are tricks to get the people who fined them to pay them for it.

      That's the way it's supposed to work, It's called the "free market".

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:What do people expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think they're avoiding the initial fine? This change is to prevent further fines for non-ompliance in the future.

    3. Re:What do people expect? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      And to make sure they make the proper donations to politicians going forward. EU politicians and not just those of the obsolescent nation-states. This was their error over the past 10 years.

      Uhhhhhh if one was a cynic suggesting "follow the money", that is.

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    4. Re:What do people expect? by citizenr · · Score: 1

      Wishful thinking. Historically, Microsoft never avoided paying its fines on either side of the Atlantic, just to name one.

      Intel still hasnt paid $1B fine for bribing retailers to not stock AMD parts.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    5. Re:What do people expect? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Intel paid much more than $1 billion to AMD, what are you going on about?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    6. Re:What do people expect? by citizenr · · Score: 1
      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    7. Re:What do people expect? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Yes, sent back to a lower court, but Intel has not escaped, and they run the risk of ending up with an even higher award. Meanwhile, I do believe the money is held in escrow, did not check that though.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:What do people expect? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      and to also recover the $5 billion from Europe

    9. Re:What do people expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For big companies such large fines rarely if ever get paid, if they do there are tricks to get the people who fined them to pay them for it.

      Sure for a normal guy like me a fine of $100,000 would be enough to set me back and lower my standard of living for a long time. But I wouldn't have much recourse, After the verdict is finalized. I either pay a fine or go to jail.
      However for a company like Google, 5 billion dollars would hurt them a little bit, however they have resources to work around it. Turing a free service to a paid service. Knowing that they are a monopoly because there isn't much competition will just mean they will get paid for a service they use to offer for free.

      This is 100% non-sense. If doing that was more profitable and better for them, they would have already done it before the fine. Duh. Do you think companies have low prices or give free products just to help everyone out?

    10. Re: What do people expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider the other potential reason: they only did this after the fine to have an excuse to raise the profit margin. A bit like how Dell and HP raised prices because Brexit!

    11. Re:What do people expect? by Hentes · · Score: 1

      The Play store might be a near monopoly now, but if Google asks for too much money I bet it will see some competition as phone manufacturers might decide to just put another app store on the phone.

    12. Re:What do people expect? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Firstly, how much 5 billion dollars hurts Google is rather missing the point. Punishment is not a major factor, the money is designed to deter them from ignoring the ruling and paying the fine and to compensate the other companies that were affected by their behaviour.

      Also we can see from the example of Microsoft that in fact they did pay the fine and didn't raise their retail prices to compensate or anything like that. If they had it would probably had been punished anyway.

      In this case the amount Google charges will have to reasonable in the EU's eyes, which means less than the revenue from supplying other browsers and search services.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. Works for me by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You'll pay $10-$20 bucks more for an Android but get privacy and consumer options.

    It might be less. You can be Microsoft will be happy to pay a handset manufacturer to make Bing the default. That said, I can run alternatives to google services on my phone and, well, I don't. Not because I can't but because their software tends to be the best, at least for low end phones like my old LG Note.

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    1. Re:Works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It'll more likely end up like buying a laptop without an OS

      "Yeah can I get that without windows?"
      "errr sure, but how will you use it?"
      "Install Gentoo"
      "Ok"
      "BTW, how much are you going to knock off for the OEM licence?"
      "You want it cheaper? Not a chance mate, It'll come with a stock windows image and we'll have to pay someone to flatten it"

    2. Re:Works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't the privacy-version remain the same price?

      As I understand it Android will still be free. Only the preinstalled Google-data-collection apps cost extra.

    3. Re: Works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Dell Precision came in $150 cheaper with Ubuntu pre-installed instead of Windows...

    4. Re:Works for me by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      The Android name is trademarked, they'd need to call it something else.
      You'd also have no legal way of using the Play store either.
      You'll have to use proprietary apps for basic features, like text messaging, trusting that they will be kept up to date by yet another proprietary update mechanism.

    5. Re:Works for me by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The can further enforce the litigation by forcing the allowance for users to install software on their phone from what ever repository they like and force Google in incorporate that feature into Android and also force access to root for the user.

      They whole they are making us charge, a lie, they want the money and those prices will go up and up and up. An open access Linux phone platform, will be far more sensible for most companies and users. Android is reaching it's use by date, simple reality, from here on in, the douche bags at Alphabet will make it worse and worse. The era of Google as your perceived friend in tech is over and the era of privacy invasive douche bag is now becoming exposed.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re: Works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think they can force google to develop stuff like that, they make a playstore for themselves and anyone else is free to make their own.

    7. Re: Works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google have done nothing but good for Android such as adding SELinux, improving sleep states and power management, supporting free codecs, making hardware cheaper to acquire, allowing phones to be used as proper computers etc. Project Treble aims to make kernel LTS for Android feasible too.

      My mind is pretty much made up on using iOS over Android these days though due to HIG adherence, consistency and proper long term support (4 years vs. 18 months of useful life). Doing simple arithmetic on the cost of an iPhone SE per year vs. any of the Android OEMs was a no-brainer.

    8. Re:Works for me by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Why would you pay more for an Android phone? If anything you will pay less, because the money the manufacturer gets for making say Bing the default search engine and Firefox the default browser will be more than Google charges.

      If Google charges more than they can make bundling other stuff the EU will just hit them with more fines for trying to use pricing to maintain their anti-competitive system.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Works for me by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Because the Android phone maker now has to pay Google for the Play Store, and you're not going to buy a phone without the Play Store.

      As the GP says, the cost of the Play Store might be partially or totally reduced via a subsidy from Bing, but how is being forced to use Bing just in order to pay the same price for a phone that you would have had to pay without the EU's BS an improvement?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    10. Re:Works for me by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You won't be forced to use Bing, it will just be the default. You can then change it to anything you like.

      Let's see what the charge for using Play is.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. Does that mean I can get chromefree android phone? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Literally, topic. I don't like chrome on android because it has no add-ons that I feel are necessary for browsing. It would also be nice to be able to remove gmail for an actually decent POP3/IMAP email client. Pretty much the only things I use from google are maps and play store, and I'd love for play store de facto monopoly to go away. And as for maps, here maps are on par or better than google's around here.

    It wouldn't hurt if they also removed all the tracking, but I don't dare even dream about that. Tracking people is google's core business, and that thing will be taken out of their cold, dead hands only.

  5. EEA by Jogar+the+Barbarian · · Score: 4, Informative

    EEA stands for European Economic Area, in case anyone [else] is curious.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

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    1. Re:EEA by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Also, EU does not have the same countries in it. So there's a charge for those wishing to use the store even if the ruling doesn't apply to the countries they are operating in. Thus it's just a new nickel-and-diming wheeze "justified" by Google for having to not be evil.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    2. Re:EEA by fred6666 · · Score: 2

      Because they can't do otherwise. It's a single market. You can take smartphones from any EEA countries and sell them in any other EEA country.

      EEA basically means the EU without the voting rights, anyways.

  6. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by lactose99 · · Score: 1

    I thought the AOSP provided a generic POP3/IMAP mail client and (now) no browser? At least it was this way the last time I was playing with it, around Android 4.3 or 5.

    --
    Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
  7. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  8. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Actually I think you described the difference without realizing it right there. Apple is a computer maker that makes proprietary s/w as "part of it" - and google is a s/w company foraging into h/w (poorly..) trying to arm-twist 3rd party vendors.

  9. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    corruption?

    --
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    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  10. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 4, Informative

    If I understand EU refs right, Apple markets a complete device. When you buy it, thatâ(TM)s what you get. Google markets an OS to other companies and was applying rules that reached beyond first sale to those companies and bound what those companies could offer their customers. Itâ(TM)s fine to sell a closed device. Itâ(TM)s not fine to sell part of a device that comes with strings that affect the rest of the device.

  11. Sounds like Google is offended by zarmanto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seems to me that Google is basically saying, "You don't like free?!? FINE! -- then we'll just charge you for everything!" and then sticking their middle finger up at the EU courts.

    I mean, I'm not saying that Google is right necessarily... but that's certainly how their response reads, to my mind.

    1. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by registrations_suck · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And it is absolutely the correct response.

      Make it free everywhere but Europe. They can pay for it, since free is considered such a bad deal.

    2. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the next Samsung flagship model will cost only 2000 EURs. That's nothing since it's still a long way from the 9000. By that time we can choose between making a down payment of a flat and NVidia graphics card anyway.

    3. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It was as "free" as "Internet Explorer" was: not at all!

      Ok, sure, you don't know where the dollars came from(ok, you do know: from your privacy), but they are being rewarded or Google would not develop Android any more.

      What this will change is that competitors will have some chance of competing and you may someday have a viable alternative.

    4. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is the expected response. And it is beautiful: The people who actually want the Google Play app store now have to pay for it, and the people who do not want it will have a realistic chance of getting a phone without it. It is almost as if the EU measures work out as intended

    5. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

      Apple has been competing just fine as it was - making billions and billions of dollars per quarter.

    6. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by registrations_suck · · Score: 0

      Maybe computer manufacturers should be required to sell computers without memory or hard drives, so that people who don't want them can get the computer without them, and buy such things from other vendors.

      Apple USED to sell computers this way. I got the VERY LAST unit you could buy without RAM or a Hard Drive, in 1990. I got a Mac IIci in a 0/0 configuration and saved a shit ton of money buying my 170MB HD and 8MB of RAM from a mail-order place.

    7. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      It's a practical certainty that other nations will follow the EU's lead, eventually even including USA. It's just too good for the consumer.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by dinfinity · · Score: 2

      "You don't like free?!? FINE! -- then we'll just charge you for everything!" and then sticking their middle finger up at the EU courts.

      Yeah, because it was free because Google has a big heart. Don't be so naive.

      If charging handset makers for Google Play Services was more preferable to Google from a business standpoint, they'd do it everywhere. Big businesses are a lot more rational than your mental anthropomorphization of them is.

    9. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by zarmanto · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because it was free because Google has a big heart. Don't be so naive. ...

      Who said I was being naive? I am fully aware that the "free" model has served Google extremely well; I wish I could say that that's one of the reasons that I use an iPhone -- but the reality is, even as an iPhone user, Google still has access to craptons of my personal data; realistically, it might possibly be only marginally better than being an Android user, in that regard.

      No; I was merely presenting the more human translation of the obviously indignant lawyer-speak in their response. (And yes: I fully expect that one of their executives literally flipped the bird at.... the closed door of the courtroom, when they were sure that the judge couldn't see them. That's about as far as my expectations go, for attributing any kind of "rational" mentality to Google and their proverbial show runners.)

    10. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were "laptop barebones" a few years back that were just that, I wonder if they still exist. (they probably do, but selling to resellers that put their own brand on the laptops).
      Before that, it was the model for the "Shuttlle" PCs which were SFF PCs before ITX motherboards and cases. The end user bought an assembly of the case, motherboard and PSU (perhaps the CPU and heatsink/fan, but I don't remember enough)

      For desktop PC there's no strong reason to do that, you can order all the parts anyway and also pay for the parts you receive to be assembled as a working computer. The small form factor exception still stands, it's the Intel NUC and Gigabyte Brix and others (Asrock DeskMini)

    11. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know why you imagine the European courts would be unhappy with this solution. Looks to me like a solution that works for all sides. The Europeans get a new degree of freedom, Google gets more revenue.

      True, the Europeans have to pay a bit more. But no-one ever said freedom is free.

    12. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Google forced bundling of its apps with Google Play Store BECAUSE those apps made Google money. Now that the EU has ruled Google can't bundle the apps, it should not be surprising they are compensating by charging for Play Store. This was foreseen by the internet back when the ruling was made.

    13. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, the Europeans have to pay a bit more...

      Only if they actually want all the Big Brother malware.

      ...But no-one ever said freedom is free

      In this case it is - it costs more to wear the chains.

    14. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's not pretend this is about "fairness" or an "open market". This is about a U.S. company be disadvantaged, hopefully to the benefit of a French or German one.

    15. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you point is??

    16. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Why shouldn't this be their response? I mean, I'm no fan of evil, censoring megacorporations like Google. However, the EU has a bad track record of going after American companies while protecting their own. They had to expect a reaction.

      The problem with evil vs. evil is that evil always wins. :(

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    17. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      and then sticking their middle finger up at the EU courts.

      No they are not sticking anything. They are complying with the court requirements which was to stop an anticompetitive behaviour. As this anticompetitive behaviour was worth money to Google they just said they will comply and stop the practice and instead monetise their product in a different and far more traditional way: Ask for a fee.

    18. Re:Sounds like Google is offended by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      That's not true. The EU would happily allow this outcome because then Microsoft and other search engine providers and mobile browser programmers would be able to offer phone manufacturers money for installation. Or, perhaps, Amazon would finally be able to get its app store onto the market.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    19. Re: Sounds like Google is offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, later you can install it for free, just like on phones you ask someone bring you from China.

      I expect only budget phones to come like this. 40 bucks makes a big difference on a less than $200 phone (and I hope flagships start becoming cheaper, not more expensive as they're getting now, what happened to the commodization of the market?).

  12. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

    1) Apple doesn't command a significant share of the market. Particularly in Europe.
    2) Apple makes a single product with many parts. The OS happens to be one part.

    I'm sure point 2 would be more or less moot if point 1 weren't true, but the fact is that it is. Apple commands most of the profits in the industry, but there's still a lot of competition, and Apple isn't able to leverage any monopoly power to quash competitors. IANAL, but I would suspect that without being able to show that Apple is a monopoly power stifling competition in the phone market, there's no anti-trust case to be made.

  13. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

    And yet, they (and Australia) will bitch about higher prices for the same thing elsewhere (presumably PPP adjusted, but may not), to cover the higher costs of selling items, which the govt mandated warranties, return policies, employee benefits, etc.

  14. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    I have 8.1. barebones android phone (nokia) and it has no email client other than gmail that I could find when I got it. The only installed browser was chrome.

  15. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by zarmanto · · Score: 1

    ... To me, Apple is more guilty of antitrust than Google.

    What am I missing?

    IANAL, but if I were to hazard a guess: Perhaps, in order to pressure Apple over this issue, the EU would need a competitor to come forward with a lawsuit. There are no legitimate* competitors to Apple's App Store; therefore, there can be no lawsuit.

    * The "alternative" sources which could ostensibly compete with Apple's App Store generally find themselves far too reliant upon "ethically challenging" behaviors in order to even exist... such as relying upon jailbreaking in order to get their wares onto an iPhone. People who engage in ethically challenging behaviors very obviously tend to avoid the court system as much as they can. So in a disturbing bit of irony, Google may have actually opened the door to this lawsuit themselves, by enabling and authorizing legitimate competition with their own app store.

  16. Awful and stupid by mcvos · · Score: 2

    This is both awful and stupid. The point of fines is not to have someone else pay them for you. It's punishment for an unfair advantage you created for yourself. This fine should come out of those profits.

    But charging a fee for access to the Google Play Store is probably going to mean that we're going to have to get our apps at a Samsung store from now on, and that would definitely be terrible for everybody involved.

    A better option would be an open store that sold the best and most popular Android apps, but with a better percentage of the revenue going to the app makers. That would give users less crap to wade through, it would give app makers a bigger share of the profit, and the app store itself could mostly leech off the work that Google has already done. A win for everybody except Google.

    I think it would honestly be better for Google to just take the loss instead of ruining their business out of a misguided attempt to dodge this fine.

    1. Re:Awful and stupid by neo-mkrey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And as an Alphabet shareholder, I think this is wise. Why should I suffer for the EUs shortsightedness? If they had any common sense, they should have known this would be the outcome. Somebody has to pay.

    2. Re:Awful and stupid by alexgieg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But charging a fee for access to the Google Play Store is probably going to mean that we're going to have to get our apps at a Samsung store from now on, and that would definitely be terrible for everybody involved.

      Why? Other phone makers might go for any store, from Google's own to Samsung's to Amazon's to F-Droid. That kind of forced competition is good. It encourages app developers to actually provide their apps in multiple stores, thus reducing the need for Google's.

      And if users are worried about losing their app investment if they change stores, well, just give preference to apps that allow the pro version of their apps to be activated irrespective of the store they were bought in. For example, by providing a key screen with a code that can be copied and applied to the free version downloaded from another store to turn it into the pro one, or something along those lines.

      Nothing is really being lost with this change.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    3. Re:Awful and stupid by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      This is not to pay the fines, this is to compensate for the loss of revenue that Google believes that they will suffer from phone makers that installs just the Google Play store and not the other Google apps.

    4. Re:Awful and stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody has to pay.

      Yes, you.

      Why should I suffer for the EUs shortsightedness?.

      It's not EU's shortsightedness. It is your company's illegal activity. Plain and simple.

    5. Re:Awful and stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, bundling some free software with other free software is illegal. I mean, the kindle doesn't have the amazon app store, but the iPhone does.

      Oh wait, no, this is just a shakedown.

    6. Re:Awful and stupid by hackertourist · · Score: 2

      I'd rather pay for services with money than with my privacy. Now at least I have the choice.

    7. Re:Awful and stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And as an Alphabet shareholder, I think this is wise.

      Hello, I'm a fucking cunt. Now let me tell you my opinions...

    8. Re:Awful and stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And as an Alphabet shareholder, I think this is wise.

      Why should I suffer for the EUs shortsightedness?

      If they had any common sense, they should have known this would be the outcome.

      Somebody has to pay.

      This will hurt Google, and is exactly what the EU wanted. Now Google will be able to dick around less and abuse their position in search.

    9. Re:Awful and stupid by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      This is both awful and stupid. The point of fines is not to have someone else pay them for you.

      Google is not charging to pay off the fine. Google is charging due to the loss of income from the anti-competitive practice they have been forced to stop. In any normal world this is exactly how a product works to begin with: You want to use it, pay a fee.

      Not: "You want to use it, well let me give you a list of all these things not related to my product that you will not be allowed to do."

    10. Re:Awful and stupid by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Why should I suffer for the EUs shortsightedness?

      Enforcing antitrust laws is shortsighted? You really MUST be an Alphabet shareholder. Are you also on their board?

    11. Re:Awful and stupid by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No you don't. This has nothing to do with your privacy and everything to do with manufacturers not restricting B2B transactions with other vendors. You're not getting your privacy back, you're getting the option to buy a phone with Google Play + Bing Search or some other formerly banned combination.

    12. Re:Awful and stupid by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 1

      Alternatively that would be the big plus of the Google Store. You should be able to access it on all devices whereas the Samsung, LG, HTC, Moto stores are likely to only work on their devices so if I want full app access, I'd want to use Google's store over anyone elses.

    13. Re:Awful and stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What shortsightedness?

      This is exactly what a lot of people argued for. They'd pay extra if they get more freedom when it comes to choosing their software. This also creates the opportunity for other platforms to enter the market. Maybe they won't charge manufacturers. Most likely they won't be better than what google has to offer, but competition certainly won't hurt the consumer as google will have to keep up with them as well.

      Sure some morons probably thought that they could have both more options and no additional costs at the same time. Too bad for them. Although they can still import their favored multiband and multi sim products on their own. Since Maybe it even creates new business for import stores.

    14. Re:Awful and stupid by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      What makes you think it wasn't the intended outcome?

      This is what the EU wants. Google can charge a reasonable fee, companies can choose to pay it and offset the cost by bundling their own choice of browser/search engine as default, or they can bundle the Google ones.

      There is now competition in the market. Prices will be pushed downwards as Google has to compete with other browser/search vendors to be the default, and other companies have a chance to compete effectively and grow in the EU.

      It's a little bit bad for you because now Google has more competition, but I don't think the EU is going to lose much sleep over that.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  17. The customer loses in the end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course smartphone makers will find ways to charge the buyers of such smartphones. So in the end the EU only hurt the very people it claimed to be protecting. How ironic and stupid is that?

    1. Re:The customer loses in the end by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      I point to the trade war with China, which American consumers are paying the tariffs for. Sometimes the goal can cost something to achieve. Surely if the Play Store is worth something then that opens the market up to competition?

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
  18. Google Play? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That thing I immediately remove from any new phone so that I can use f-droid without being spied on by advertisers?

  19. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

    The fact that Apple only has 15% of the market while Google basically owns the rest of it? Because the specific charge the EU is levelling against Google is abuse of dominant market position and this is how they define it:

    http://ec.europa.eu/competitio...

    --
    "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
  20. Unrelated Samsung announcement by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2

    In unrelated news. Samsung today announced they will start selling a version of the Galaxy and Note 9 phones running their Tizen OS in the EU.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:Unrelated Samsung announcement by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You're writing this as if it is some kind of retribution instead of the exact frigging point of the ruling. It's completely related news.

  21. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I understand EU refs right, Apple markets a complete device.

    So... the way for Google to appease the EU's regulators is to become more of a locked down, Apple-style ecosystem that restricts consumer choice to a single, company-run app store and precludes alternate browsers and software that competes with anything that company also sells?

    Got it.

    Say goodbye to the Amazon app store, F-Droid, and the rest. The EU has picked the winner: it's Apple's business model.

  22. I'll show them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well pfff! In this case my next phone is going to be an Apple, so I can use whatever app store I want.

  23. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

    Nothing.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  24. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unlike Google, Apple doesn't control the overwhelming majority of the phone market.

  25. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    govt mandated warranties

    Hilariously those lead to WORSE warranties in the EU compared to the US. I regularly run into products where manufacturers offer 3-10 years warranty in the US but only the mandatory 2 in the EU.

  26. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is at least one 'legitimate' competitor to Apple's App Store: Valve's Steam iOS application(s), where Apple decided to ban Steam Link and any opportunity to buy stuff in Steam's app just a few months ago.

    The application(s) and the ability to buy exist even if Apple does not allow distribution. Steam is obviously well known and legitimate. The fact that Steam's selection is limited to games is immaterial. Apple still benefits by removing competition and forcing games to its App Store where it gets 30% of revenue. IMHO, the same argument you used against Google applies to Apple in this case.

  27. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, the EU should have mandated 10 years warranty for appliances and 5 years for consumer electronics including mandatory security updates.

  28. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    the same argument you used against Google applies to Apple in this case.

    I am sure the EU will want more money quite soon, so keep your fingers crossed.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  29. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    3) Apple gets away with it for now.

    It doesn't take a genius to see that EU will force Apple to open its app market sooner or later.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  30. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Your theory only covers app store competitors. Any application vendor has standing to sue. For example, the Android Fortnite client drama could play out again on Apple. But what makes you think that the EU can't act unless a competitor comes forward?

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  31. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Bullshit. Apple gets a lot more revenue out of European app store sales than does google. Stop lying.
    2) How does that make Apple's monopoly position less of a monopoly?

  32. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    The fact that Apple only has 15% of the market while Google basically owns the rest of it?

    American antitrust law concerns itself with "market power", which is not defined in terms of the fraction a market a vendor controls, but rather, whether the vendor is able to exert control over prices and other factors in its market. Which Apple certainly does. However, we are not talking America here, we are talking EU, which has much more freedom to act in whatever way they deem beneficial to their citizens.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  33. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep, the infamous successful American company tax the EU keeps applying. The EU will never dare to do this against a European or Chinese company.

  34. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

    My barebones Alcatel comes with the Android Mail application (as well as GMail et al) installed. I don't think I've had an Android phone since my first that didn't come with it - sounds like a "Nokia" problem, not an Android problem.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  35. Bad analogy guy, is that you? by Cyberax · · Score: 2

    Bad analogy guy, is that you? Computer manufacturers absolutely sell bare-bones systems for people who want to kit them out. Google prohibits this for Android vendors. They simply are not allowed to sell phones without Google apps.

    1. Re: Bad analogy guy, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BATTER. Ever heard of AOSP?

    2. Re: Bad analogy guy, is that you? by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      Nope. You can not sell phones with AOSP if you also want to sell phones with Google Suite installed.

    3. Re: Bad analogy guy, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not true.
      Xiaomi has both phones with clean Android and Play Store and with MIUI without PlayStore.

    4. Re: Bad analogy guy, is that you? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      It is true. Xiaomi doesn't sell phones without Google Store in the Western countries (except through unofficial import channels).

  36. European smartphone makers? by aglider · · Score: 1

    Or makers who sell smartphone in Europe?

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  37. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

    If you do not want to use the Apple AppStore, you can CHOOSE to buy another phone - no problem.

    Apple also has a business model also does not conflict with 3rd party web browsers. It also does not restrict choice to one AppStore.

    The Apple business model also does not prevent competing 3rd party apps. For example, Pandora is available on the iPhone, despite the existence of AppleMusic.

    So try again.

  38. A revenge... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, I smell a revenge after EU fined Google with EUR 5 billion, isn't it?

  39. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last I checked most (all?) of the current Nokia smartphones on the market are Android One devices, and while I don't have a Nokia phone myself I do have a recent Xiaomi phone that's also part of the Android One program and it also only had Gmail installed by default. Given how closely tied Android One devices are to Google's services I don't think it's too surprising to find they didn't bother including the basic client by default on such hardware.

  40. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Hilariously those lead to WORSE warranties in the EU compared to the US. I regularly run into products where manufacturers offer 3-10 years warranty in the US but only the mandatory 2 in the EU.

    This is a common "unintended consequence" of government mandates. It is illegal for companies to explicitly collude on prices, wages, and warranties. But if the government sets a mandate, then they can all use that as an implicit collusion level.

  41. When something is free, you are the product by Bluefirebird · · Score: 1

    While Google is spinning it as something bad for consumers, this has the potential to be quite a good thing. Amazon app store should now be possible to have on an android phone without sideloading.

    --

    Fear is the mind-killer.

  42. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Err.. Apple does restrict 3rd party browsers. Every iOS browser has to use Apple's Safari for rendering, despite having their own backend. So iOS Chrome, Edge, etc. are just fronts of Safari.

    That's a far more severe restriction than Google has ever had, despite Chrome being very useful to Google's business model.

  43. Good, hoping to see a more private Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can live with Google knowing what apps I install via Google Play, but the rest of the spyware they put into the phone -- collecting my address book, my calls, text messages, location via nearby WiFi hot-spots etc. is too much.

    I hope to see a more secure and private Android thanks to this, and paying a few tens of euros more for that privacy is fine.

  44. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I installed Lineage 14.1 on a phone, based on Android 7.1.2, it comes with a browser called "Browser" (translated in the local language).
    I thought that's part of every Android installation? Even if an even more raw AOSP doesn't include it, I thought there has to be the embeddable "Web view", kind of like Windows came with mshtml.dll.
    BTW I found "Privacy Browser" in the F-Droid store, and put that in the bottom bar. Seems to be same thing but with ad and tracking blockers included. Would have put Firefox in there but as it's a relatively low spec phone I'm not too sure about using Firefox on it. I don't even browse the web on the phone anyhow.

    There's the generic mail client too.
    I use the phone as a phone, but it's annoying so I need to get a new dumb phone. Amazingly, a phone OS doesn't come with a GUI or software to copy contacts from/to the SIM card, some phones could do that 15 years ago.

  45. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Nokia phone's primary selling feature is that they're selling a pure android. It has zero customizations of any kind.

  46. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

    Well, that's the rub isn't it, because "pure Android" can mean "Exactly what Google would give you" (more probably) or "AOSP" (fairly unlikely.) The Mail app is part of AOSP. Google's "Android" however isn't pure AOSP, or even pure AOSP + the Google suite, it's often confused with the latter, but it's been drifting away from AOSP for many years now.

    Here's email, as you can see it's in there right up to AOSP 9.1 as of the current state of the universe.

    I believe most phone makers include it. Sounds like Nokia doesn't, possibly because it's advertising the "Pure Android" horseshit.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  47. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you do not want to use the Apple AppStore, you can CHOOSE to buy another phone

    And if you don't want to use Google's app store, you can just... use another one. Or buy another kind of phone. You have much more control than you get in the Apple ecosystem.

    So try again.

  48. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uh, you know for the first 4 years of the idevice ecosystem, that wasn't the case, right? No apps could even run in the background, so the best alternative music player had to be open with the screen on.

    Now everyone has to fight an uphill battle to gain marketshare. Also, does Pandora integrate with the OS seamlessly? Can you set it as the default music player -- if you press play on a bluetooth remote (if that is allowed), will it load and start a Pandora stream?

    If not, you need to try again.

  49. Admission of anti-trust guilt and gains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This move by Google may well backfire on them, because it is in effect an admission of guilt and a declaration of how much they've been profitting from their anti-trust violation.

    If the EU slaps that amount backdated over the life of Android as restitution and then triples it as a penalty on top of their existing fine, Google will have no way to argue against it, since they've admitted to their gains from it voluntarily.

    1. Re:Admission of anti-trust guilt and gains by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      You mean the EU would reverse their decision and prosecute them again for the same thing they're already made a judgement on?
      Sounds like something that wouldn't be allowed.

    2. Re: Admission of anti-trust guilt and gains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what exactly is illegal, they profiting as a company? Or doing free development and support for an os (unlike ios or blackberry) that is given free on condition of their apps installed? I don't fault Google for what they did, it lowered the cost of all phones down to hardware cost (see Xiaomi, 3rd largest handphone manufacturer).

      I have not used ios, but having used bb, i could immidietely see the value in a non-free os when i shifted to Android from my bb z10.

  50. Re: Does that mean I can get chromefree android ph by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tracking? Like how when you open Google maps it does a GPS check even if GPS had been disabled by the user?

  51. Google stops mistreating Europeans by jwbales · · Score: 0

    After Google was fined billions of dollars for giving free apps to Europeans, Google has agreed to stop being so evil.
    Google will now charge Europeans for the apps.
    Other providers of free stuff for Europeans should take note and begin charging.

  52. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by _merlin · · Score: 1

    Samsung Android phones allow you to completely disable Chrome. Samsung Internet provides content blocking, privacy, etc. and the Samsung mail client supports standard mail servers (I use it with my dovecot server).

  53. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    They advertise their phones come with Android One, which is Google's customised version of Android.

    Android One brings a Google designed software experience to a new range of Nokia smartphones. Get everything you want and nothing you don’t with a streamlined, easy to use interface and a curated set of pre-installed apps,

    "nothing you don't", as determined by Google.

  54. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    If a manufacturer does not want to abide by Google's rules, they don't have to use their software - no problem.
    Before the last time Nokia went tits-up, they were using Microsoft's OS on their phones. Absolutely no influence from Google. Before that their smartphones used their own software.
    Before Palm went under (and has now risen again in name only) they used their own OS too.

    Companies like HTC, iMate, etc. all used Windows Phone and Windows Mobile on their old smartphones. No one sued Microsoft for including Internet Explorer in Windows Mobile (like they did with Windows).

  55. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by elgaard · · Score: 2

    Until you actually need those warranties. Then you realize it is only valid if you currently live in the US. You have to pay for shipping and handling out of your own pocket. And if they refuse to pay out, there is not much you can do.

  56. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

    The way to appease regulators is exactly what Google did: stop using control in one product domain to force leverage in another domain. They now charge for something they used to give freely and as a result will have to compete against other market offerings.

  57. I understand Brexit now by iamacat · · Score: 1

    Seriously? You have an open source operating system that you can use for free. You also have extra closed source components that you can use for free, you just have to decide one way or the other. No wonder there is nothing resembling Sillicon Valley in Europe.

  58. Re: Luckyo can't stop lying about plastic danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democrat Party troll-master David Brock loves molesting children in his basement.

  59. Break up Alphabet by astrofurter · · Score: 1

    It's time for President Trump to get out his trust-busting stick and break up Alphabet.

    Alphabet has grown too big and has too much market power. It has repeatedly shown itself ready to abuse its power to stifle competition, and to censor the free expression that's necessary for a healthy democracy.

    Android - separate company
    Chrome - separate company
    Gmail - separate company
    Search - separate company
    Surveillance / "advertising" - separate company

  60. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The main issue is about bundling of other services and the fact that Android is in a monopoly position. Where you're in a monopoly position, special rules apply.

    Google offered the open-source version of Android, and you can take that no problem. But they also offered the Google suite of services as a bundle. And there were two main issues here:

    1) If you just wanted, let's say, the Google Play store, you couldn't get it by itself without taking it all (including Gmail, Chrome, etc.).

    2) As soon as you sold one phone model that took the bundle, you were forbidden from selling any Android phone that *did not* include the whole bundle. (You can only either do exclusively "no-Google Android", like Amazon, or exclusively "all-Google Android", like Samsung.)

    Because Android is so established and given away for free, it limits the likelihood of new competitors entering the phone OS space. And because of this bundle, it limits the potential for other competitors to compete on a level playing field in any of the other spaces either (app market, browser, email client/service, etc.). (The fact that Amazon FireOS exists isn't itself enough because of the "take-it-or-leave-it" ultimatum for manufacturers.) In the EU's view, Google was basically dumping the OS on the market at below cost and leveraging their market dominance to fortify their business in other areas, shutting out the potential for fair competition. It's the same sort of principle that led to the fine against Microsoft for bundling Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player in Windows many years ago. (The fact you can easily just go download and install other competing software wasn't enough in either case, in their view.)

    Google's solution here resolves all this: it splits the bundle so you don't have to take it all, and it eliminates the restriction on selling Android phones without Google services (so now, within the EEA, companies like Samsung could sell Android phones both with and without Google services, or with different combinations of services).

    If Apple were in a monopoly position, they too would come under EU regulator pressure to open up their system. But basically, it's the privilege of not being dominant (and Apple's closed nature and pricing structure probably ensures they'll never be the monopoly). EU laws are basically to prevent any one company from getting too dominant and from using their dominance in one space to restrict competition in other spaces.

    As with what happened to Microsoft in the past, though, it's not unlikely that the solution will be both too late and too ineffective to really solve the problem, and the market may well correct itself regardless. But, in the end, the issue really has nothing to do with being open or closed, just the burden of being too popular.

  61. Sounds like a win for the people by zedaroca · · Score: 1

    Google was keeping it for free in exchange of not allowing competition. Now, not only Google is forbidden of stopping competition, but it also decided to give them a push the other way.

    With this, hopefully, smartphone makers will start giving the consumers a choice between the Goggle version and the Free version.

    1. Re:Sounds like a win for the people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What competition did they stop?
      There are a lot of app markets out there. The manufacturers are free to use those markets.
      Opera Mobile Store, Amazon Appstore, Yandex Store etc. can be installed on any Android device.

  62. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until you actually need those warranties.

    That's the thing that bugs me living in the EU: I don't really need them.

    In all the time since the mandatory warranty regulations I've had a single case where something broke within two years. Yet I have to pay for those regulations every single time I buy something (through increased prices). It's like buying mandatory insurance for something that was free anyway (if you picked good manufacturers that used to offer warranties on their own). To make matters worse, I have to pay for people who abuse the regulations to get new stuff for free.

    Then you realize it is only valid if you currently live in the US.

    Before the regulations a lot of companies had warranty fulfilment centers in the EU. Might have even been an encouragement to buy from local companies. Now that the burden is on the sellers and not the manufacturers, the latter have no advantage over the cheapest imported stuff where the manufacturer doesn't give a damn.

  63. Re: So many crazy Euro-Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    EU enforces a guarantee (not warranty) on most sold products which does protect the customer for 2 years. If the company sells a shitty/faulty product, I, as a customer, can rely on this mechanism to get a replacement or repair without any additional expenses from my part. Additionally, the customer has the right to rely on the seller to make a claim, which makes is much easier than dealing with the manufacturer, which of course is also possible. It is fairly easy to also enforce this mechanism if needed.

    A warranty is a voluntary contract usually between the manufacturer and the customer and can contain virtually anything: if your product breaks after the second full moon of Hanuka, you may return it via courier and we will refund you twice of what you paid.

    Warranty and guarantee are not mutually exclusive. Companies can and do provide warranties in the EU.

    Judging by many reviews of quite pricey products sold in non-EU countries, TVs, smartphones, fridges, etc., where people complain that their product broke 12months in and have now to repair or replace the product at their own expense because their case is not covered in the voluntary warranty provided by the manufacturer, I am under the impression that the EU guarantee provides far superior, more reliable and actually enforceable customer protection.

  64. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    That is the new versions. I have the first gen, which are just pure android. The only customization is the nokia's warranty app which lets you check if your warranty is still on and some technical details about the phone.

    Everything else is stock android. It didn't even have a video player or audio player bundled. Just the standard google play package on top of aosp.

  65. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the info. I'm wiser on the topic now. I'll see if I can find an apk of this thing.

  66. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I understand EU refs right, Apple markets a complete device.

    So... the way for Google to appease the EU's regulators is to become more of a locked down, Apple-style ecosystem that restricts consumer choice to a single, company-run app store and precludes alternate browsers and software that competes with anything that company also sells?

    Got it.

    Say goodbye to the Amazon app store, F-Droid, and the rest. The EU has picked the winner: it's Apple's business model.

    No.

    The way for Google to appease the EU regulators is to sell phones to the public instead of selling android to phone manufacturers.

    Currently they sell android to manufacturers, but with GApps handcuffs.

  67. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    That is because you don't understand antitrust. Anti-trust is about using your position of power to be anti-competitive against others. One example of anti-trust is taking a highly popular product that is used on a wide variety of hardware, and adding restrictions to that product that artificially limit the business a company chooses to make with another. For example permitting the use of Google Play only when a vendor doesn't ship a competitors product (Bing search engine).

    Apple on the other hand is not being anti-competitive. There is zero requirement anywhere in the world for a vendor to dice up and serve their stack in pieces to be consumed how another company sees fit. Apple having complete control of *their* product isn't an antitrust issue. Likewise Google restricting the use of the Google Play store to *only* Google devices would also not be an antitrust issue. Neither imposes anticompetive practices on a 3rd party.

    Also of note would be the fact that in order to have an antitrust claim against you you actually have to be in a position of power. 19% market share is not a position of power, so the Apple case fails on both requirements.

  68. Re:Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    corruption?

    Understanding. In this case understanding of what "antitrust" actually is.

  69. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    So... the way for Google to appease the EU's regulators is to become more of a locked down,

    No. The way Google appeases the EU regulators is to monetise their product properly (i.e. charge a fee) rather than add anti-competitive strings (lock out participation of other vendors from the default configuration).

  70. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Err.. Apple does restrict 3rd party browsers.

    Yours and the GP's point are irrelevant. It's their device and enjoys a minority position in the market.

    On the other hand a Samsung Galaxy S is NOT Google's device in which case they are not able to restrict any deals Samsung make with Microsoft or whoever else without falling afoul of antitrust laws.

  71. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    If a manufacturer does not want to abide by Google's rules, they don't have to use their software - no problem.

    Yes problem. Google's rules extend beyond the line of their sale. Google has a market share of considerable power which means that manufacturers are forced towards adopting Google's rules or provide a device that doesn't meet a customer's requirements.

    This is the fundamental piece of anti-trust legislation: Having power over company's decisions, and using that power anti-competitively. A vendor can't opt out of the former.

    No one sued Microsoft for including Internet Explorer in Windows Mobile

    It didn't come with strings attached that had nothing to do with Internet Explorer.

  72. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    It didn't stop Amazon using Android as a based for it's Kindle Fire.

  73. Re:Does that mean I can get chromefree android pho by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Then obviously Nokia made customisations.

  74. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Is that the Kindle Fire sold first and foremost under the brand for reading Amazon content, marketed for use with Amazon content, actually locked down to Amazon content, doesn't have access to the Play Store or Google services, and effectively makes it about equal to Windows RT in terms of what consumers expect and what is delivered?

    You spoke to my point perfectly. You just described the "success" of a product that would absolutely fail being marketed as an Android Phone, ... Or an Android device in general.

    You may notice that on Amazon's website they don't even mention the term "Android" anywhere.

  75. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    You demonstrated you're an idiot.

  76. Re: Wuddabout Apple? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Oooh burn. Honestly I expected another round of silly arguments from you. I'm kind of upset you folded so easily. I mean predictable since you don't appear to have a clue what the words anti-competitive actually mean in an article about anti-competitive practices, but really man... I'm disappointed.

  77. Seems a bit high by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    $40 Google royalty per phone seems a bit high, I can't see EU consumers being happy about it. After all, Google really should be paying manufacturers to install its software because that is how Google tracks people and makes enormous amounts of money from advertising. So it seems likely to me that Google will find itself the target of further antitrust action if they hold to their current course. This leak might be effectively just a negotiating tactic, or it just might be pure stupidity. Hard to tell at this point.

    If Google does somehow manage to make their $40/phone tax stick then that would be a huge boost to AOSP, OpenStreetmap and the like. The more likely result is, horsetrading gets it down to the $5/phone range and life goes on. Google really does want its spying/adserving software on as many phones as possible, and they need those phones to be as cheap as possible, which rather weakens their negotiating position.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.