Slashdot Mirror


YouTubers Will Enter Politics, And If They Do, They're Probably Going To Win (buzzfeednews.com)

A group of twentysomethings leveraged their huge YouTube audiences and actually won seats in Brazil's federal and state elections. What happens next is anyone's guess. Ryan Broderick, writing for BuzzFeed News: Kim Kataguiri is known in Brazil for a lot of things. He's been called a fascist. He's been called a fake news kingpin. Is he a YouTuber? He definitely uses YouTube. He's definitely a troll. A troll with a consistent message, though, he points out. Maybe he's Brazil's equivalent of Milo Yiannopoulos. His organization, Movimento Brasil Livre (MBL) -- the Free Brazil Movement -- is like the Brazilian Breitbart. Or maybe it's like the American tea party. Maybe it's both. Is it a news network? Kataguiri says it isn't. But it's not a political party, either. He says MBL is just a bunch of young people who love free market economics and memes. One thing is very clear: His YouTube channel, the memes, the fake news, and MBL's army of supporters have helped Kataguiri, 22, become the youngest person ever elected to Congress in Brazil. He's also trying to become Brazil's equivalent of speaker of the House.

[...] Kataguiri's political awakening is a textbook example of the way algorithms beget more algorithms. During his last year of high school, his teacher started a debate about welfare programs in Brazil. So Kataguiri started googling. He discovered Ron Paul and the Brazilian libertarian YouTuber Daniel Fraga. "Then I did a video to my teacher and my friends at school to talk about what I had found out," Kataguiri says. "There was one problem: I posted this video on YouTube. So it was public and it went viral." He says people kept asking for more videos, but he didn't know anything. So he went back to googling, and then made more videos about what he learned.

140 of 298 comments (clear)

  1. news at 11 on Youtube. by Joviex · · Score: 2

    Ego-stroking Talking heads will always be egoi-stroking talking heads...

    1. Re: news at 11 on Youtube. by magarity · · Score: 1

      Ego-stroking Talking heads will always be egoi-stroking talking heads...

      Speaking of talking heads, this is right out of that old 80's show, Max Headroom, where the TV station with the most viewers at voting time got their candidate into office.

  2. Trolls get old fast. by ruddk · · Score: 1

    The trolls get old fast, but there are others on YouTube from the UK that now has entered politics. I have no idea if their combined subscriber base of over 1mil, will be enough to change elections.

    1. Re:Trolls get old fast. by lgw · · Score: 2

      The trolls get old fast, but there are others on YouTube from the UK that now has entered politics. I have no idea if their combined subscriber base of over 1mil, will be enough to change elections.

      With Sargon stepping back from the Culture Wars, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is he really tired of YouTube fame, or is he positioning himself for a political career with UKIP? I think 1 million subscribers isn't enough to make a real impact, but it is great training for politics. Heck, just the idea that "maybe we should debate ideas on their merits" has become radical means it's time for something to change.

      IMO the more "radical centrists" and "free speech extremists" get involved with politics, the better, for all they will inevitably be called *phobic Nazis.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:Trolls get old fast. by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is that for every sane Youtuber with a halfway decent following, you have an army of idiots that BLOW YOUR MIND, can count to 10 and show you a million things to do to your hair (with a link to buy the crap in the description, either as a promo-link to Amazon and the like or they run their own crap already and bypass the middleman when it comes to swindling teenies out of money).

      Not to mention the criminally insane, from apricot-core eaters to flat earthers to the politically-religious, ranging all the way from the kill-the-fags right wing nutjob to the kill-the-cis-males left wing nutjobs.

      My only hope is that they are SO many and fracturing their user base SO widely (because they themselves can't get along) that they splinter it up into so many insignificant groups that they in total don't matter.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Trolls get old fast. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      The trolls get old fast, but there are others on YouTube from the UK that now has entered politics. I have no idea if their combined subscriber base of over 1mil, will be enough to change elections.

      If you have 1 million followers only 1000 will vote for someone just because you told them to. How is this different to newspapers editors endorsing a candidate? How many elections has that changed? As bad as society is people won't just vote for someone because "someone on You Tube" told them too.

      You will have people on one medium endorsing one candidate, a rival on another medium endorsing another candidate, it all cancels out.

      Before you say "but people are sheep and do whatever they're told by you tubers"- let me ask you... have you ever voted for someone JUST because one person on TV, or Newspaper, Radio, You Tube, etc told you to? If the answer is no- you can't really expect humanity as a whole to vote like that. If you're that easily swayed you're probably not committed enough to vote anyway.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:Trolls get old fast. by lgw · · Score: 1

      One thing... most of these youtubers will join existing parties. And in many elections, have you seen how *close* most regions are?

      It's a little different in Britain, I think. UKIP is a very small party, small enough that it doesn't get seats (some oddity of the UK system where you need to get ~5% of the vote to get any seats). However, it might well be that a million supporters, plus continued advocacy in more traditional ways, can push UKIP above that threshold. That could be at least the start of something.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:Trolls get old fast. by lgw · · Score: 2

      While I have no doubt that you know "what a troll is" to the point of a science, you make a good point. "Troll" used to mean "an insincere opinion proffered to provoke an emotional response", and that's still the /. mod guidance, but these days it seems to mean "someone I disagree with".

      Alex Jones may be a bit of a troll - I doubt he believes half the shit he talks about - but he's really not focused on aggravating people who disagree with him (after all, normal people simple don't listen to him, so he has no audience to troll).

      Breitbart is merely sensational, and no more so than most media outlets. I wouldn't call "exaggerating stuff you actually believe for clicks" trolling, but maybe that makes me old fashioned.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Trolls get old fast. by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      in a way, because those ads were about who NOT to vote for ;-) anymore these elections are about the perception that your voting for the least worst candidate of the two. Nobody is actually all that excited about anyone that makes it between the final 2. Lets admit it, most candidates you thought were OK got washed out early in their primaries.

    7. Re:Trolls get old fast. by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I know what a troll is, but the way people use it today makes no sense. It seems to have morphed into "someone who says something I disagree with, so I can't fathom how they could truly believe something different than me, so I am going to call them a troll"

    8. Re:Trolls get old fast. by lgw · · Score: 1

      It's a bit different when it's not just "endorsement" but "reasoned argument and debate". Appeals to tribalism, which is most of modern politics, is great for getting out the vote but as you say it's a marginal effect.

      Actually persuading independent voters with reasoned argument is what these YouTubers potentially bring. Does that actually work, though? Hard to say, as when's the last time we saw a political "debate" that was anything but candidates reciting prepared statements?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re: Trolls get old fast. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd say Milo and maybe Ann Coulter are trolls, but the label doesn't extend to people who are merely kooky or extremists.

    10. Re:Trolls get old fast. by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I used to think this. Recently, the way the Democratic party is running, I feel we are now in an era of Minority rule. Take any hot topic item, whether its abortion, gay marriage, forcing a baker to make a gay wedding cake, etc. Lets take the gay wedding cake one.. Now look at the demographics of the democratic party. While the LBGTQ(insert-more-letters-here) group is solidly democrats, so are the black southern baptist and blue dog democrats. Latinos are typically very devout catholics. These groups have a very different set of ideals when it comes to certain social issues. Now if this was a national vote where it was not party driven, you would probably see only 15% come out and say "Yes, a baker should be FORCED to make any cake he or she disagrees with, regardless of religious belief". But because this 'coalition' exists to force all its members to tow the party line, this 20% suddenly jumps to 47% of the population, and members are being represented against their beliefs. As if there was some shortage of gay bakers to make a cake. This is why we are now a country of minority rule. We keep making exception after exception for every minority group instead of demanding people be treated exactly the same. Same means Same, not "All Animals are created equal; some are more equal than others".

      The same thing happens in the Republican party, but its not quite as fractured as the Democratic party. There is a large number of people that vote republican that identify as libertarian, so they don't agree on social issues nearly as much as they do on fiscal and economic ones.

    11. Re:Trolls get old fast. by e3m4n · · Score: 1, Insightful

      now its been redefined to be anyone they dont like or agree with. Identity Politics.

    12. Re:Trolls get old fast. by DaveSewhuk · · Score: 2

      You just negated your argument when you said "Same means Same" and the minority + coalition rule. In your case a non-popular minority can never achieve "Same mean Same" status. If "Same means Same" means a living/breathing homosapien stripped of color/religion/lack of religion/sex orientation-attraction/gender/weight/height/eye color/hair color/etc then you have me. We need to ignore or tolerate the stuff we don't like more.

    13. Re:Trolls get old fast. by lgw · · Score: 1

      I see your point. Placing the candidates well could make a real difference, assuming you could find any overlap between "hotly contested" and "lots of YouTube viewers". Even with a small party, you'd just need an overlap between lots of disaffected voters and YouTube viewers, which doesn't sound so far-fetched.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    14. Re:Trolls get old fast. by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      thats my point... making laws to give people extra perks as a make-up only, in the long term, makes equality impossible. Not everything is discrimination. Sometimes rules just suck. Sometimes, shit lets be real, often, I deal with a real hassle of rules that make things suck. I have to jump through hoops just to get something I need. Making a rule that gives minority X head-of-the-line treatment does not create equality. If a 'white privileged male' experiences hassle or problems getting something done, then there is no way that when minority X experiences the same issues it can be construed as racist. No law needs to be enacted to give anyone a free pass. It is OK to enforce equality, but new laws are not needed to do that. Our constitution, our 14th amendment, all clearly say that we are to be treated the SAME. Let the courts tell idiots that civil rights apply to minority X. New laws do not need to exist to make it so. Just because, at the time, slaves were considered property, does not, in some way, imply they are denied constitutional rights once they are not a slave. Our constitution and amendments apply to all citizens equally. In fact I think its BS that we revoke rights from reformed criminals. Incarcerated, on parole, sure, revoke rights. Once they are out of the system their full rights should be restored. If they are not safe enough to restore their rights, why are they out of the system? The only line I draw is extending the full rights to a non-citizen. Being a citizen has to be worth something and extending it to just anyone makes no sense. We don't even let those under 18 have full constitutional rights. So if natural born members of the USA are denied certain rights before emancipation then so should non-citizens be denied those exact same rights on the exact same premises.

    15. Re:Trolls get old fast. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Playing the popularity game, throwing shite from the sidelines, sure fun. Being in the game and having shite thrown at you and your ignorance on public display, well, watch a youtube career go up in flames. Ego and greed, a sure set up for being busted for corruption, how about a betting pool on how many months it takes.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    16. Re:Trolls get old fast. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Sorry, both I knew either deleted their YouTube channel or maybe YouTube did it for them, I don't know.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. FTFS by nwaack · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Brazilian Breitbart. Or maybe it's like the American tea party." - He sounds right wing, I'm surprised YouTube, in all its progressive wisdom, didn't shut that right the hell down! Think of the children and such...

  4. The difference between communism and democracy by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Communism is the dictatorship of the proletariat.
    Democracy becomes more and more the dictatorship of the proles.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:The difference between communism and democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

      Stay in school kids.

    2. Re:The difference between communism and democracy by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Ummm... WTF are you talking about. Or rather, since you clearly don't know that prole is short for proletariat, learn more before you speak.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    3. Re:The difference between communism and democracy by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Trump is the voice of the proletariat... holy fuck, I guess I was more right than even I feared.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. Maybe in Brazil by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Insightful

    in the United States voter suppression makes this moot. For one thing young people don't like to register because it increases the odds you get jury duty. Polling places are kept away from college campus, student Ids are not valid voter Id (while gun permits are). The list goes on and on.

    Young folks aren't just lazy and stupid. There's a concerted effort by the powers that be to keep them from voting.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Maybe in Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What?

      A gun permit would make sense as that's something issued by the government and you must prove your identity to acquire one. College IDs have no form of certification of their validity. It'd be utter stupidity to allow it as a form of voter ID (also, people on student visas will have college IDs but are not allowed to vote). And as for polling places being kept away from college campus, the university I attended was the designated place to go vote, I don't know how much closer you'd like it? They set it up in one of the ballrooms in the student center.

      And if you aren't willing to serve on a jury, then you have no god damn business voting in the first place. You have to do your civil duties. All of them. Not just the ones you find convenient. If you refuse to do some of your civil duties, you shouldn't get to do the other ones.

    2. Re:Maybe in Brazil by nwaack · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh please. They ARE allowed to vote. They filled out the registration form wrong and need to correct it within a certain period of time. That is all.

      Given how easily you're fooled by HuffPo-like propaganda, you should probably just stay home instead of voting.

    3. Re:Maybe in Brazil by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

      in the United States voter suppression makes this moot. For one thing young people don't like to register because it increases the odds you get jury duty. Polling places are kept away from college campus, student Ids are not valid voter Id (while gun permits are). The list goes on and on.

      Young folks aren't just lazy and stupid. There's a concerted effort by the powers that be to keep them from voting.

      I'm a bit curious as to why the system of voter registration is accepted? From what I understand Nort Dakota has no registration requirement so there shouldn't be anything inherent in the system that can't be changed at the state level, or am I missing something?

    4. Re:Maybe in Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Voting is mandatory in Brazil.

    5. Re:Maybe in Brazil by RobinH · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you're not willing to fulfill your obligation to society (like standing for jury duty) then you shouldn't get to vote.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    6. Re:Maybe in Brazil by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      so by making them eligible to have jury duty this is considered a 'concerted effort by the powers that be to keep them from voting"??? So someone working a regular job at age 30, should be eligible for jury duty, but not a 20yr old in college? Because why? Because he is special? This is type of 'Some people are more equal than others' bullshit that's gotten politics so riled up to begin with. Same means Same, equal. Not special treatment for every subset of society you can dream up.

      IAW federal law, a gun permit requires two forms of ID in order to get, therefore it is backed by previous valid documents. A Student ID does not require the level of proof of identity that a drivers license does. You cannot get a drivers license with only a Student ID, you cannot get a Passport with just a student ID.

      A valid ID costs $20, whether it's a drivers license or just an ID. Not every state requires ID to vote, some accept mail like the library, some just let you say you're Eric Holder and steal his vote.

      The only even halfway valid point you make might be in relation to polling stations, and that too might be debatable. They never seem to be short of transportation when they go to the bars and clubs on the weekend. Surely if they called their local party office and asked if someone would volunteer to do shuttle runs to get students to and from a specific polling station, they would get dozens.

      Stop making excuses as to why your too lazy to vote and just get out and vote.

    7. Re:Maybe in Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here we have another liberal that thinks having to prove you are a resident in order to vote as a resident thinks that it's suppression. I've got a newsflash for you, genius. Unless my ID matches the address I am declaring in order to vote, I need to present a bill or some other proof I live where I say I live. If you present an out-of-state driver's license you are declaring you live - think about this a minute - out of state. This is not suppression, this is proving residency.

      And since you had trouble making it to the polling place, I'm guessing you never heard of vote by mail ballots. You must have been a gender studies major or one of those feel-good degrees that are short on logic and critical thinking.

    8. Re:Maybe in Brazil by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      That's an argument against mandatory voting. Brazilian politics makes America look good.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:Maybe in Brazil by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Everytime power turns over in China, they also have a wave of 'anti-corruption' trials. That isn't generally a good thing.

      Hint: 'Corruption' doesn't mean what you think it means.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:Maybe in Brazil by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      For one thing young people don't like to register because it increases the odds you get jury duty

      That's not true, at least not in any state I've ever lived in. Getting a driver's license on the other hand...

      Polling places are kept away from college campus

      Again, what backwards ass state do you live in?

      student Ids are not valid voter Id (while gun permits are).

      Well, one is a government id, and the other isn't (assuming it's a private school.)

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    11. Re: Maybe in Brazil by Brujis · · Score: 1

      So young people want to vote but not have any of the responsibilities that go along with voting like jury duty? Unfortunately that is part of the voting deal, you need to do jury duty. Polling places are easily found and are readily available with lists posted weeks in advance. College ID is not government issued and that is why it isn't good enough.

    12. Re: Maybe in Brazil by Brujis · · Score: 1

      Nope that doesn't happen you are simply lying. What does happen is that people who don't have ID, haven't voted in years, or can't spell their own names are removed so they need to reregister

    13. Re:Maybe in Brazil by sarren1901 · · Score: 1

      To be fair regarding the gun permit, that required a federal background check. You can't be illegally here and own a gun, but you can be illegally here and go to school and get a student ID.

      Also, if getting out of jury duty is more important then voting, why should they get to vote at all? If you are so concerned about how our government is running, you should be doing your part and serving on a jury if it comes up. Besides, if going is truly a hardship, you won't have to go.

      I've voted every opportunity since I turned 18 because it was important to me. If voting is important to a person, of any age, they will get registered and take the time to go vote.

    14. Re:Maybe in Brazil by fafalone · · Score: 1
      And here we have another conservative that fails to grasp why liberals oppose voter ID laws. Conservatives frequently implement policies that make those IDs more difficult to obtain for the poor and minorities. I've explained this before:

      Maybe if Republicans weren't doing things like placing all the ID places in wealthier areas, poorly reachable by public transport from less wealthy areas, open only during weekday business hours, requiring a not-trivial-to-the-poor fee, disallowing comparble non-state IDs less likely to be possessed by whites, their voter ID whinging wouldn't get shot down as transparently racist. If you're willing to reform those problems across the country, *then* we can talk about voter ID. [...]

      I'm in NJ, the liberal northeast, and even for me to get an ID, it's 90 minutes of walking/PATH to get there round trip, at a cost of $5.50 (add $3.20 for the bus if I don't want to walk 2 miles), and they're only open limited weekday hours. Not all people can take off work for minimum half a day to go do that; what if I had a kid to pick up and no one else to do it? It's a multi hour wait. Then the ID itself is $26, so now I'm out $31.50. You seriously going to tell me with a straight face none of this has a disparate impact on poor, predominantly black voters?

      Since large scale voting fraud has never happened, it's pretty damn clear that voter ID laws are being pushed in a way that, when paired with the policies being implemented to obtain those IDs, is in fact about voter suppression. Cheats like that and extreme partisan gerrymandering result in hugely disproportionate representation compared to the number of votes Republicans actually receive; and they have the gall to further complain about all this mass voter fraud there's never been a shred of evidence found for. They are undoubtedly the party of voter suppression.

  6. No, they really won't. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isolated cases where You Tube may or may not have influenced elections does not mean that You Tubers in general have all that much power. I really doubt many people will vote XYZ just because someone on You Tube told them to.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:No, they really won't. by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isolated cases where You Tube may or may not have influenced elections does not mean that You Tubers in general have all that much power. I really doubt many people will vote XYZ just because someone on You Tube told them to.

      And why should we care if someone on YouTube "influences" an election anyway?

      We're supposed to "influence" each other politically by communicating ... that's literally how its supposed to work.

      Sure beats influencing each other via violence, firing people for their political opinions, and other popular methods of the day.

    2. Re:No, they really won't. by e3m4n · · Score: 2, Interesting

      dont give millennials that much credit. Just listen to the stupid shit that Cortez person keeps uttering without exhibiting even the least bit of comprehension of basic math and accounting. Everything is about taxing the rich to pay for everything instead of trying to make things cost less so they dont bankrupt the country. Take her healthcare approach. Everyone wants to give other countries as examples of universal healthcare. You know what those countries DONT have? Doctors making 7 figure salaries and billions upon billions siphoned off in malpractice suits. I have no doubt Kalifornia will elect the next person purely because they say stupid shit on youtube without the first thought on how to actually make it work. A Goal, without a Plan, is called a Wish.

    3. Re:No, they really won't. by SixMinutes · · Score: 1

      I don't think the point of the piece is that people see content on youtube and mindlessly vote a certain way because of it. What these budding politicians have done is tap into a new broadcast medium to build networks of supporters. They've created a sense of common identity. Like Trump, they've figured out that they don't have to go through mainstream media to reach interested people, they can just speak directly to them.

      I suspect that this is a sign of the times. The power of TV, radio, and newsprint isn't going away overnight, but my guess is that we'll increasingly see successful campaigns built on networks like these, without any gatekeeper between supporter and candidate.

  7. well by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now you know that if the politics were of a different slant, this would be celebrated.

    1. Re:well by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Informative

      He's suggesting that we'd be less horrified if he were a liberal rather than something resembling a fascist, which I can't argue with. Far-right ideologies have proven to be harmful every time they've been tried, so we should be horrified by them.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:well by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Fair point. After reading his comments, I'd say he's a straightforward libertarian like the others in the circle-jerk. A terribly destructive ideology for sure, but at least not an openly inhumane one. Certainly preferable to the nationalist protofascism of Jair Bolsonaro.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  8. stand up and salute by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

    I, for one, welcome our new Pewtie Pie overlords.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  9. Good for them. by bob4u2c · · Score: 1

    Again, good for them.

    Of course I'm just waiting for every politician to host their own youtube channel because some social media ninja told them that is the way to win elections. Maybe if were lucky they will put all their efforts into youtube and stay out of tv and news so I don't have to skip through the political ads anymore.

    Then of course the fake politically Russian youtube channels will be blamed for their candidate loosing that election too.

    My head hurts, I'm going to go lay down for a while.

  10. Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    We have a solution to all those problems: Voluntary trade; 2 individuals agreeing how to allocate their resources (i.e., how to interact).

    Under capitalism, you vote every time you make a decision, and the weight of your vote is a privilege determined by how much control of societal resources you've managed to gain through interaction that is solely voluntary.

    People need a signal for when they are making good choices, and they need a signal for when they are making bad choices. Capitalism gives us this, and Democracy, sadly, does not. Democracy is a dumb man's first draft of Capitalism.

  11. Because the government cannot compel speech. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Though failing badly, the original American experiment was to create a government that was restricted solely to protecting individual rights, chief among which are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Compelled speech (e.g., voting) is a direct contradiction of that goal.

    You see, unlike places such as Australia, the U.S. is attempting to be a Free Society.

  12. Re:Children in Politics by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

    Stupid is relative. In many cases, elected officials could be replaced by a random number generator with better results, because random noise is less harmful than active corruption or relentless pursuit of a ridiculous ideological agenda.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  13. Re:Democracy is a bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner.

    “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - Winston S. Churchill

    A vote given out freely must be worth nothing; certainly, the weight of one's vote this election is almost completely divorced from one's vote last election.

    "Service guarantees citizenship" - Starship Troopers

  14. Re: Why is voting optional? by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

    Great. So for 2 mistakes in the past (not voting), you're permanently punished for the rest of your life. No way that could be abused. No way someone missed elections because they couldn't get off work, or had a sick family member, or didn't like any candidates. Nope. No matter what, they're bad people who need to have their right to vote stolen from them forever.

  15. Useful Idiots... by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 1

    How many of these idiots are popular because their message and popularity are amplified by those that would gain from their idiocy?

    --
    the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
  16. Not in the US by sdinfoserv · · Score: 1

    Nothing new 40 years ago it was the “disenfranchised youth” – US educated I might add – that overthrew the Shaw of Iran and plunged the country into Sharia law. Taking a country from a global educational and social leadership roll to a terrorist theocracy.
    The problem with attempting to equate 3rd world behaviors(ie, what happens in Brazil) to the US is that people under 30 don’t vote in the US and for the most part, are so busy watching themselves on Instagram, they don't think far enough ahead to bother to vote..

  17. Buzzfeed? Seriously? by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 1

    Buzzfeed? Seriously? Is this the same Buzzfeed that had such extreme confidence in predicting the results of the 2016 election -- with 0% accuracy?

    --
    Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
  18. Republicans BANNED By YouTube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, when any politician or person running for office is banned by youtube, the company can be charged with Election Tampering ?

    1. Re:Republicans BANNED By YouTube by MrLint · · Score: 1

      Thats not how that works.

  19. Wrong question asked by sinij · · Score: 1, Troll

    The question should be is this is the end of leftism and identity politics no longer hold absolute power? I hope so.

    1. Re:Wrong question asked by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't like identity politics, you REALLY won't like the modern right with their constant appeals to the straight white male persecution complex/privilege loss anxiety.

      And I think this is less likely the end of leftism than it is the violent, desperate death throes of the right as a mainstream political force. Leftism hasn't become any less common or made any sudden moves in the last few years. It's the right that has taken off its gloves and mask, taking the complacent left by surprise, even as it has become less common. Leftism appears to be losing right now because it's still marching in formation against an enemy that's suddenly started using ISIS-level guerilla tactics.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Wrong question asked by sinij · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't agree with your analysis, I think weaponized identity politics was invented on the left. Concepts like intersectionality, white privilege and so on are all products of the left. Just look at how many things are now considered racist acts and how trivially easy it is to accuse someone of racism as part of political fight about any topic.

      I think it is wishful thinking on your part to think that mainstream could somehow be in a death throes - after all masculinity, heterosexuality, and to a degree whiteness are still in plurality if not majority. Trying to intimidate and guilt such large population into submission will go only so far, especially if every concession is immediately followed up with more demands.

      Leftism is hopefully losing because it became regressive, dogmatic, and frequently eats its own. I hope its demise means return of left that advocates worker's rights, welfare and economic equality, freedom of speech, and so on.

    3. Re:Wrong question asked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The moment leftism dies, so do rightism. The movements increasingly identify and define themselves with the help of each other. Maybe the US needs Nazism to unify the country. They had multiple centrists policies as well, and a genuine care for the environment. The final solution for the problem of Middle East could finally be achieved!

      --
      Dr. G, the third.

    4. Re:Wrong question asked by mjwx · · Score: 1

      If you don't like identity politics, you REALLY won't like the modern right with their constant appeals to the straight white male persecution complex/privilege loss anxiety.

      And I think this is less likely the end of leftism than it is the violent, desperate death throes of the right as a mainstream political force. Leftism hasn't become any less common or made any sudden moves in the last few years. It's the right that has taken off its gloves and mask, taking the complacent left by surprise, even as it has become less common. Leftism appears to be losing right now because it's still marching in formation against an enemy that's suddenly started using ISIS-level guerilla tactics.

      Out here in the ROTW, we did away with the whole Left/Right thing years ago.

      One can be conservative on some issues like business, import laws, et al. and liberal on other issues like health care and education. Only the US seems to thing that if you are conservative on one issue, you must be conservative on them all.

      The far left has not been any kind of force in the western world in the last 30 odd years. Not since the extreme left died on in Europe. We still have the far right, which is in its death throes and refuses to go quietly. The extremism of the far right demonstrates that they are desperate for any kind of attention to bolster their flagging numbers.

      Once that happens, we'll have centrism, whether its centre left or centre right really doesn't matter as long as they don't get too extreme, the only left parties still in power in Europe are centre left. The far right is making an effort, but only showing the world how much of a mess they really are (see: Italy and the German AfD). I think we'll see a return to more pragmatic politics, solution focused rather than ideology focused. The question is, how much damage will the extremists do before they're finally dead.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  20. Where are you from that colleges have no polling? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Polling places are kept away from college campus

    Name one college where that is true. Usually there are polling places ON campus, because they have a lot of buildings with rooms that can be devoted to polling quite easily.

    Young folks aren't just lazy and stupid. There's a concerted effort by the powers that be to keep them from voting.

    Hint: When something seems wrong, always vote on lazy/stupid as being the reason.

    Except that I take exception with them being stupid. Voting well takes some work to research who and what you are voting for. It's not stupid to avoid work if you don't think there is any return for doing so.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  21. Re:Why is voting optional? by burtosis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about we start with a mandatory by law 2 hours off work paid on voting days when part or all of your shift intersects voting hours? We can follow up with making a reasonable number of polling places within reasonable reach of the local population accessible by public transit and prohibiting gerrymandering by appointing independent governing boards and straightforward districting. Even the requirement for an identical name on all government records is BS; is a clerical error on one of the 318 government documents on me get me out of paying taxes? Right now a large portion of voters are disenfranchised or about to be disenfranchised due to one of those reasons.

  22. Ges what else less than half the people do? by raymorris · · Score: 2

    > I have heard that less that 50% of the population vote, since the "middle of the road" people feel there simply is no point to vote.

    Also, less than 50% of them know who the vice president is.

    They are more interested in biking, playing soccer, video games, or whatever their interest is, and have very little interest in civics. Not enough to even know who the VP or the Speaker of the House are. Given they have roughly zero relevant information or understanding to draw from, when asked which candidates they support, they give reasons like "because she's a woman, so she'll support women's issues. I think. Beto is a woman, right?"

    Personally, I prefer for important decisions to be made by people who have at least a very minimal understanding of the basics of the topic. I personally think that decisions about national economic policy should mostly be made by people who have read page 1 of the Economcs 101 book, so they know what the two main branches of economics are. If someone doesn't know what economics is, how can they possibly make informed decisions weighing the benefits and drawbacks of one set of economic policy proposals vs another? They can't, obviously. Their vote can be decided only by the manipulative tweets of orgainzations who stand to gain from one policy or the other.

  23. Re:youtube is for the illierate by burtosis · · Score: 1

    To be fair the main stream media has the consistent problem across the board of being an information entertainment service that never badmouths or negatively reports on subsidiary companies or advertisers. Top that off with 6 companies own it all and the lack of diversity and integrity forces knowledgeable people to other alternate platforms.

  24. Right wing ideology != "fake news" != "troll" by guruevi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Off course it comes from Buzzfeed, the left's Breitbart but just because someone has a platform you do not agree with or understand, does not make it bad, fake, non-existent.

    Going through YouTube and similar platforms is just the modern equivalent of sending out flyers in your mailbox and placards in your yard.

    Not sure what this guy's message is per se, but the left's lunatic identity politics is turning off young men and working people across the world. You can't just re-categorize an entire population of people with mental disorders as "freedom fighters" and hope that it works.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  25. Re:youtube is for the illierate by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

    Same as you my friend, I watch youtube once in a blue moon to check how to repair my washing machine or my car. I don't understand people who spend hours watching youtubers.

    --
    "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
  26. No proof, no reality by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As for removing polls from campus, google.

    Not one of the search results says anteing like polling places are *moved* off campus, and ignores that most colleges across the U.S. HOST polling places for the reasons I specified. Hell, one of the links talks about free buses from one campus to a polling place... making it easier for students to vote, not harder.

    I said this elsewhere in this thread but, well, nothing I say is going to convince you.

    You are going to have to try reality based arguments instead of describing things you imagine are true but are not.

    The best we can hope for is that you're in the minority and that as more folks become aware of Voter Suppression it will be ended.

    Don't worry, all of the folks pushed away by imaginary voter suppression are made up for by imaginary dead and illegal votes.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  27. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by nwaack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Georgia is purging them from the rolls left and right while moving polling away from campuses. This isn't propaganda, it's fact

    No, it's propaganda. The people who filled out the registration form incorrectly have 26 MONTHS to fix it, and they can vote in this upcoming election. Your "facts" are disingenuous at best and are therefore propaganda. Also, I never said anything about moving polls. I didn't comment on that so why are you bringing it up?

    That means you don't get to plead ignorance.

    I'm not.

    having decided that some people shouldn't be allowed to vote because they disagree with you.

    When the hell did I say any of this? You sure are good at putting words into people's mouths.

    What I hate about folks like you is you.

    Folks like me? You mean, folks who can read between the lines and critically think? Folks who aren't sheep?

    you won't just come out and say "I don't like Democracy"

    Because I DO like democracy.

    You hide behind talking points to fool people.

    What talking points are those? I simply called you out on your totally incorrect statement about the 53,000 people not being allowed to vote.

    Democracy is good, but only when _everyone_ votes.

    False. Democracy is good when INFORMED people vote. Not sheep who just look look for the little "R" or "D" behind the name. Sorry I triggered you by pointing out your B.S. statement. Get out of your echo chamber a little more often and maybe you'll toughen up a bit. And please, for the sake of all of us, get informed before voting.

  28. Yes you do and yes it does by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    google a bit. You'll find 33 states have voter Id laws and all states use voter rolls to pick people for Jury duty.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Yes you do and yes it does by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with jury duty?

  29. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Jesus. Just when I think you can't possibly say anything dumber than last time, you prove me wrong.

    Democracy is good, but only when _everyone_ votes.

    That sounds like Soviet propaganda or North Korean tripe. Those who do not care enough to want to vote should absolutely not vote. That's not voting. That's throwing darts at a dartboard. Why not just pick names out of a hat?

    "Progressives" like to throw this bullshit around thinking that the default vote for the lazy shits that can't bother to show up 90% of the time are for "their" guy. FFS, If you can't show up for four years straight or figure out how to re-register when you finally get around to voting, maybe you should bone up on civics first. What's next? Are you going to bitch about how unfair and discriminatory it is to have to renew your driver's license or register your car every year?

  30. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by BlueStrat · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you do not pay taxes, like the ~44%-plus of Americans who pay no Federal income taxes, you have no right to vote on how those taxes are spent.

    As far as the 'rich' not paying their 'fair share', the top10% of Americans in income pay two-thirds of Federal income taxes while the bottom 50% pays ~3%..

    The USA is rapidly becoming a full-on Authoritarian Oligarchic Kleptocracy with merely the trappings of a mock-democracy, a democracy no more valid than those 'Democratic Republic of [insert_name]' dictatorships thanks to the Leftists and their 'useful idiots' in media and academia.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  31. Re: Why is voting optional? by pablo_max · · Score: 1

    Well, why the fuck is voting during the week days?
    In such a system, the companies would be required to give the time off any company who discouraged voting would have the management arrested for treason.
    That's the problem... you guys do not take voting seriously. You do not deserve the vote.

  32. Re:Why is voting optional? by burtosis · · Score: 1

    Considering the backup due to the way polling stations are set up, 4hrs is a better idea.

  33. Re:youtube is for the illierate by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Uncle Bumblefuck is unlikely to write the great Canadian novel. But he's literate.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  34. Remind me again... by forkfail · · Score: 1

    ... why YouTube, Facebook, et. al. aren't treated like the public square that they are?

    --
    Check your premises.
  35. Re:youtube is for the illierate by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    youtube is a great tool for the illiterate or functionally illiterate. People talking into a camera do so because 1. They probably couldn't write a coherent article/essay about what they're trying to say and B. their audience either couldn't or wouldn't read something like that.

    You could (and many did) say that about TV.

    For some of the audience, it's true enough. For others, not.

    I always thought the criticism was rather overblown, and somewhat class-ist (or wannabe class-ist). Nobody gives you grief if you go see a lot of live action plays and musicals, for example. But watch them on TV, and suddenly you are rotting your brain, you are illiterate, etc.

  36. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As far as the 'rich' not paying their 'fair share', the top10% of Americans in income pay two-thirds of Federal income taxes while the bottom 50% pays ~3%..

    I hate this argument because of the wealth distribution in the US. Granted this is just one of the first easy to read sources I found but you'll notice that the top 10% hold 75% of the wealth while the bottom 50% hold 1.1% (according to this chart). Given that, one could argue that the bottom 50% pay too much and the top 10% pay too little.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/203961/wealth-distribution-for-the-us/

  37. To late, Twitter users did it first by BringsApples · · Score: 1

    ...and it didn't turn out very well.

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
  38. A Waldo Moment by h4x0t · · Score: 1

    Ever since we no longer require facts or a general understanding that that is only 1 reality, pretty much anyone could win if they have the charisma and dollars.

  39. Depends on how you ask the question by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ask "Should the Baker be FORCED" then you'll get a lot of 'No's'.

    ask "Should the Baker be allowed to refuse service" and you'll get a lot of 'No's'

    The end result is the same. LGBTQs are denied access to a public resource (in this case a publicly available bake shop).

    Me? I just replace the word "LGBTQ" with "White Male Christian" and if I would say "that shouldn't be allowed" then there's my answer. Once you can use religion to discriminate you can do damn near anything. It'll start with baking cakes and end with riots and apartheid.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      bullshit. A store owner has the right to refuse service regardless. These fucktards justify throwing out cabinet members from restaurants but its OK to force a baker to bake a fucking cake? The people who filed that suit went to TWENTY bakers BEFORE they found a baker that said NO. There is no shortage of bakers baking damn cake. You cant have it both fucking ways. Fine.... Im going to go around demanding NAMBLA cakes... see where that shit goes.

    2. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      Even better, lets all get WAR ON WOMEN cakes

      WAR ON WOMEN
      Putting bitches in their place since 1787

      lets see how many bakers refuse to make that!!! Then file suit and appeal to the Supreme Court and site case law (it will never make it that far, the ruling covers ANY refusal)

    3. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh please stop lying. The issue was not access to a shop for an engaged couple. The shop had standard wedding cakes and the couple was repeatedly invited to purchase one of those. That is in accord with commercial codes that shops adhere to regularly in the US. The codes are local but pretty much the same across the US as they must comply with court rulings and Federal law. In general, discrimination practiced by shop fronts will end your business fast.

      The court case involved a service advertised by the shop though structured differently. In general, services arranged by individual contract performed outside the context of a shop front and/or with custom individual components are accepted or rejected at the discretion of the contracting parties. It should be obvious why this is the case. So a hair salon offering commonly performed cuts can't discriminate but a tattoo parlor can refuse to do a swastika tattoo as such tattoos are custom. If the swastika is listed as available in a standard offering publication then the shop must offer it to everyone within the bounds of legitimate health and ethical concerns typical of tattoo parlors. In general the custom shop can refuse custom work. That was the issue with the wedding cake and the courts generally understand their cases can be used to affect future decisions in a general manner. The ability of contract to be at the discretion of the parties involved outweighed ..well...gayness. Really, politically charged concerns about a particular group was all there was vs the vast body of contract law and fundamental commercial basis of a voluntary cooperative society.

      Oh and the asses who went into the shop right after the ruling to do the same thing? You haven't heard much of that stunt afterwards have you. Courts REALLY don't like those types of shenanigans.

    4. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by fafalone · · Score: 1

      To be ideologically consistent, you'd also have to support the right to refuse service to blacks. Or whites. Or non-Christians. Can a business refuse service to those other groups? You seem to think number of alternative options matters; how many of a service must be within what radius to count? And pedos aren't a protected group, no matter how much 4chan tries to troll people with LGBTQIAP. Race, sexual orientation, religion... those are protected groups.

    5. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      I've yet seen a good argument why "Race, sexual orientation, religion" are protected, but other intrinsic properties, such as height and weight are not. And how is pedophilia not a sexual orientation?

    6. Re: Depends on how you ask the question by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      The 14th amendment does not apply here. These protections only keep the government from descriminating against you; and by extension, subsidized organizations such as universities.

      The guidelines for companies with government contracts are contractual, not specific legislature.

      Yes, someone could also refuse to bake a cake based on race. Economics would take care of these situations all by themselves. Forcing someone to do something only drags the situation out forever. Afirmative action did more to prolong cultural differences than just about any mess ever cooked up. Those appointing minorities to management positions often went out of their way to hire the most unqualified black persons possible; as if to say âoesee! This is what you get hiring blacks! They just arent qualified.â Afirmative action is not what got jackie robinson into MLB. Afirmative action is not what created motown records. These laws are wolves in sheeps clothing. Now a baker is simply going to lie about ehy he cant bake a cake âoeoh, sorry. It just so happens my neice has a ballet recidal the day of your weddingâ. Nothing legally you can do about lying as to the reason; just like they lie as to why they let an employee go.

      Technically speaking, these college âsafe spacesâ(TM) for âpeople of colorâ(TM) would be in violation of the same would-be law just like holding classes on how to overcome your whiteness. Imagine a class on how not to be black. How many times would you read about that in the news? Making special laws extends the problem, it does not fix them. If at any point you make a law prohibiting something that only applies to a subset of -the people- youâ(TM)re violating the 14th amendment as well as the framework of the constitution itself.

    7. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by mjwx · · Score: 1

      ask "Should the Baker be FORCED" then you'll get a lot of 'No's'.

      ask "Should the Baker be allowed to refuse service" and you'll get a lot of 'No's'

      The end result is the same. LGBTQs are denied access to a public resource (in this case a publicly available bake shop).

      Not quite, the bakery in this case is a private business. I'm from the UK and have a passing interest in this case. I'm also fairly "liberal" on the social side of things and support gay rights as much as I support anyone's rights. I've even been called a JSW or WSJ or whatever the faux-insult is these days more than once by various extremists.

      The supreme court in the UK ruled on the basis of existing law. The right to refuse business is enshrined, its akin to a pub disallowing shirtless individuals entry or setting up any other kind of dress code. Sure, the bakers are arseholes, religious, arrogant arseholes but that isn't against the law either. However the law does not protect them from the consequences of their actions and any public ire it may draw, a lot of noise was made over this and I have no doubt that bakery has lost a ton of business over it.

      Only a select few businesses are prevented by law from refusing custom and these are usually ones where people need to use in order to live.

      Also the traditional method of refusing business in the UK is to proffer a price so high or terms so unreasonable that the customer would be certifiably mad to accept.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:Depends on how you ask the question by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why this is always misrepresented. The baker in question did not refuse service, he offered the customer any off-the-shelf wedding cake. What he refused to do was a custom design which advocated for something which he did not believe in. Which seems pretty reasonable to me.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
  40. Re:Why is voting optional? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    The premise is silly. IIRC our polls open at 6am and close at 6pm. There are never lines early, rarely lines late.

    People that work 12 hour days can vote early, by mail.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  41. Re:Why is voting optional? by burtosis · · Score: 1

    There is a non negligible risk of voting early by mail, it is more certain to vote in person. Add on commutes and the difficulty for some to reach polling stations and the fact that there are in fact long lines at a substantial number of polling places and you fine more democratic countries give the protections as outlined above. Hell, during the 2016 primary I had a one hour wait, lines were out the door and around the block and it was total chaos inside.

  42. Re:There's a sizable number of people who think by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

    the "wrong" sort shouldn't be allowed to vote. They won't say it out loud though. They hide behind euphemisms. Most commonly they say that voting should take some work because if you're not willing to put the effort in you shouldn't be voting. This starts a discussion about how hard it should be to vote and distracts from the basic issue, which is voter suppression. It's a very effective straw man argument.

    What it comes down to is conservatives want to keep progressives out of the political system. America's entire system is built to do that. It's why we have a Senate and Electoral college. We don't like to talk about it because we preach Democracy heavily. For some folks they can't even wrap their heads around how little actual Democracy exists in America.

    Do you remember what your grade school civics classes taught you?

    The United States is not and has never been a "Direct Democracy". It's a representative republic designed to weigh the interests of populous areas and less populous areas equally with one another.

    The senate and electoral college achieve that means and it's by design from the onset. Heck, it wasn't until 1913 that we switched the selection of senators to the popular vote. Previously state governments voted on who their senators would be.

    This system is why America is a large and powerful country where you have the right to move to any state you feel like with varying industries, culture, and weather.

    The second America does away with those protections is the second this country fractures into small entities. And to be honest, i'm starting to believe that's what many people like yourself want.

  43. We go out of our way by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Troll

    to prevent informed people from voting. This is why older folks are such a valuable demographic.

    I've told this story before. Where I am the local power company wanted to end the practice of paying solar power users for their extra power. Only thing is, that was very, very popular. Their law didn't have a chance of passing.

    Well pass it did. How you ask? They ran these ads see. There were a bunch of older folks sitting around a table talking about something. Something scary. At no time during the advert did anyone say what it was. At the end was an impassioned plea to vote yes and proposition such-and-such. It passed with room to spare, and the power companies no longer had to pay for the free solar.

    Those are your "informed" voter. Meanwhile you need only spend a bit of time on google to see how bad voter suppression is in this country.

    It's harder for the left because we _don't_ have propaganda. We've got no Rush Limbaugh. No Fox News. No CNN pretending to be middle of the road and then pushing trickle down economics on the sly. We've got no Sinclair media buying out all the stations.

    Again, I don't think I can reach you. You've got the talking points from your right wing think tanks too down pat. You were ready to go with a rebuttal because they've given you all the answers. It's tough for me to compete with a multi-billion dollar right wing propaganda machine. And again, maybe I'll get to a few you're trying to mislead. Maybe even some day you'll follow that google search above and figure out Rush is lying to you. Or maybe the American empire will just carry on it's slow, Romanesque decline...

    One things for sure: I definitely pushed your buttons. Somewhere in the back of your mind you know something wrong with that propaganda you've been spoon fed. I guess I'll chalk that up as a win.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:We go out of our way by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      I've never seen somebody that needs to look in the mirror so badly before in my life.
      "Abloo bloo bloo, we don't have propaganda"
      Could you even type that with a straight face?

    2. Re:We go out of our way by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      No CNN pretending to be middle of the road

      !!! Thank you for the laugh, it was a deep one. What kind of drugs do you do?

  44. YouTuber President... by fbobraga · · Score: 3, Informative

    Kim Kataguri and MBL are just a small part of the problem, here in Brazil: the likely new president, Jair Bolsonaro, is "an YouTuber": he just spread videos from his social networks, but he already tell everyone that he will not participate on TV debates - more info: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/1...

    1. Re: YouTuber President... by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      Yeap... If I can, I would move to Uruguay or Canada :/

    2. Re: YouTuber President... by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      I wish it was true...

    3. Re: YouTuber President... by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      He, Bolsonaro, call almost all media, "fake news"... I can see an obvious pattern here...

  45. How old are the viewers? by TomBauserman · · Score: 1

    My 12 year old kid seems to be age group most youtubers are aimed at. Doesn't seem like they'll get many votes.

  46. Is it just me by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Does anyone else read "YouTuber" and think of potatoes?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  47. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    uh yeah, 26 months to fix a problem where you aren't notified there is a problem. Problems like your name not being hyphenated the same way as your driver's license which disproportionately affects minority voters. Definitely a fair and honest system, where all have an equal say in democracy.

  48. Yeah. by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

    the "wrong" sort shouldn't be allowed to vote. They won't say it out loud though.

    Yes, the wrong people shouldn't be allowed to vote. I've never had a problem saying it out loud, even though you usually try to put words in my mouth by trying to tell me what I mean by "wrong". Wrong means "people who should not be allowed to vote". People who are not US citizens should not be allowed to vote. People who don't live in the voting district should not be allowed to vote there. People who are not registered to vote should not be allowed to vote.

    Most commonly they say that voting should take some work because if you're not willing to put the effort in you shouldn't be voting.

    Yes, if you can't be bothered to pay attention to what is being voted on, then you should not vote. Your vote will be noise. It will not represent the will of the people, it will represent random data.

    I suppose the problem is that you cannot tell the difference between "should not be allowed to vote" and "should not vote".

    What it comes down to is conservatives want to keep progressives out of the political system.

    Just as much as progressives want to keep conservatives out. That's what happens during any vote -- people vote for the ones they want, which excludes the ones they don't. Have you never voted?

    America's entire system is built to do that. It's why we have a Senate and Electoral college.

    If you don't really understand why we have the system we do, please don't make up absurd nonsense about it.

    For some folks they can't even wrap their heads around how little actual Democracy exists in America.

    Yes, and so they come up with absurd claims about why the Electoral College exists and yammer on about "voter suppression" when people who should not be allowed to vote are prevented from voting. Some folks think that "able to breathe" is sufficient to have the right to vote in any election, because 'democracy'! It's amazing that they cannot wrap their heads around what the US political system was designed to be, and what voting is supposed to accomplish.

    1. Re:Yeah. by dryeo · · Score: 1

      You know, there's been whole countries created on the principle of "no taxation without representation", countries that started out by revolting against their King due to being taxed without a vote on it.
      One country went on to write a decent Constitution, which didn't mention anything about citizenship and such to vote.
      Pretty simple, if you pay any type of tax, you get a vote on how it is used.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    2. Re:Yeah. by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Pretty simple, if you pay any type of tax, you get a vote on how it is used.

      I don't know what country you live in, but if that works for you, that's nice. In the USA you need to be a citizen to vote, and a resident of the area in which you vote. That seems to work out pretty well here.

      I'm not sure why you think that anyone who walks up to the polling place with a receipt showing he paid sales tax on something should be allowed to vote for your executive leadership, but like I said, if it works for you, more power to you. Let me know what country that is and I'll make sure to take my next vacation there and come help you elect your politicians. If nothing else, I'll have paid an airport tax of some kind and have every right to vote in your elections. Right?

    3. Re:Yeah. by dryeo · · Score: 1

      I live in a country that has a Constitution that says only citizens are allowed to vote, unlike you. Also a country that never did the no taxation without representation thing, unlike you. Now how much tax and residence are arguments that you can make but if you're an American, you should be in favour of tax paying residents having the vote. Or perhaps you could amend your Constitution and perhaps your history.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    4. Re:Yeah. by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      Seconded. Citizens should be entitled to vote, non-citizens should not, in any country. Not really sure why this is such a thorny issue in the US.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
  49. Re: Georgia is purging them from the rolls by Brujis · · Score: 1

    You hate this argument because it proves you are wrong. For one thing 'wealth' is defined as net worth which puts a recent graduate earning $300,000 who has a $200,000 student debt and no other assets on that bottom percentage with a net worth wiping out $200,000 of someone else's wealth so the total looks worse...

  50. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by nwaack · · Score: 1

    I didn't say the system was perfect. Personally, I think it's a stupid rule, but saying that these people can't vote is simply wrong and it's propaganda. That's all I've ever said from the beginning. I'm not sure why this is triggering so many people who feel the need to defend this lie!

  51. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

    If you do not pay taxes, like the ~44%-plus of Americans who pay no Federal income taxes, you have no right to vote on how those taxes are spent.

    Even people who don't pay federal income tax pay taxes.

  52. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

    try reading the constitution buddy.

    I did. It originally required voters to be land owners. You know, people who have actual skin in the game rather than being useless eaters that will happily vote to "redistribute" (read; "steal under threat of government force) the product of the labor of others to themselves for their own selfish agendas.

    I was speaking about moral right.

    "When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  53. Did you miss the Trump rally by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    where he said he'd pay the legal fees of anyone who beat up a Democrat? Or how about all those alt-right rallies where they showed up with weapons. One guy ran over Dem protesters with his car. You guys are violent as hell.

    You've let neo-nazis and white supremacists into your party. Heck, you even helped them legitimize by calling them the "Alt-Right". What did you think was gonna happen when you did that?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Did you miss the Trump rally by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      umm what you said is pretty bad, but what ANTIFA is doing is equally bad. Lets both agree that there are fucking fanatics on both sides. Though I am starting to suspect there are more on the left right now; throwing people out of restaurants, trying to get into fist fights with senators that dont vote their way, trying to break into Fox 5 in DC. At least with the right, you know where the crackpots are going to be, they show up at marches and everyone laughs at them.

    2. Re:Did you miss the Trump rally by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      they show up at marches and everyone laughs at them

      Yes, aside from Congressional candidates body-slamming reporters (and being praised by the President for it) or people at 'peaceful marches' running people over I can't think of any violence on the other side of the aisle.

      Let's just condemn stupidity and things we don't link without drawing party lines, shall we? There is no 'equally bad' - calling it 'bad' and 'unacceptable' is plenty.

  54. You do realize the Red states don't pay taxes by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    seeing as how they get more federal tax dollars than they pay in. California & New York pretty much make the US work.

    You're right about the Authoritarian Oligarchic Kleptocracy, but the solution isn't less voters, it's _more_ voters. Progressive, pro-worker policies poll in the 70s. Those include single payer healthcare, legalized drugs, college for all (good even if you're not in college, since it keeps the young'uns out of the job market for a bit so they compete less with us aging /.ers). What we need is to get people to the polls.

    To do that we should follow Obama's suggestion: Make voting mandatory. I can't tell you how many folks I know don't vote because their vote's suppressed. The most common one is jury duty. In most jurisdictions they pull first from the voter rolls. Working class Americans can't afford Jury duty. 60-80% (depending on how you run the numbers) live paycheck to paycheck. Add to that voting on a Tuesday, the Electoral college & Senate, and voter registration purges and you've got around 20-30% of the population effectively disenfranchised.

    The best way to have Democracy is to have _everyone_ vote. When voting is mandatory then you can't use cheats to stop people from voting.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:You do realize the Red states don't pay taxes by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I can't tell you how many folks I know don't vote because their vote's suppressed.

      Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
      Arthur: Bloody Peasant!
      Dennis: Ooh, what a giveaway!

  55. Leftism doesn't eat it's own by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The right wing took over the Democratic party. It happened when Clinton moved the party right to win the presidency (he needed a ton of money and couldn't get the big money donations without selling us out). Take Al Franklin, a real lefty. He was shut down by Kamala Harris and other right wing women to pave the way for her presidential bid.

    Speaking as a White guy, White Privilege is real. Us White Guys are painfully aware of it. We've had decades of preferential treatment in loans, school admissions, job interviews and the like. I'm not going to argue this point, it's a historic fact. Go google a bit and educate yourself.

    But thing is, so the fuck what? Your angry at people for pointing out that you started on first base, but you should be mad at the billionaires who not only started on third but sent armed goons around to kick you back to home plate (and kick your teeth in while your at it).

    I keep saying this, your enemy isn't the fat chick who runs your local women's studies dept. She's powerless unless you sign up for her class, and here's a trick, just take Chinese History. It meets the requirement for "multi-culture" and it's chalk full of manly wars. Your enemy is the guy who sits on a gold throne and tells you he's a man of the people.

    You've been had buddy. I know that's gotta make you pissed to think it, but the sooner you face facts the sooner you can do something about it.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Leftism doesn't eat it's own by sinij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      White privilege is an idiotic concept. It is group identity forced on individuals. That white hobo Vietnam vet living under the bridge and burning trash in a barrel to stay warm in the winter and try to explain to me how he is somehow has more privilege than, for example Oprah Winfrey? While you are at that, also explain to me how patriarchy could be worked into all that.

      Another problem is who exactly counts as white. Are Irish white? Are recent Eastern European immigrants white? Are pale-skinned Latinos white? Are pale skinned Turks and Arabs are white? Are Jewish people are white? Are Chinese white? Do they all have the same white privilege?

      At least I agree with you that Democratic party today has f-all to do with progressiveness or classical liberalism. I don't know who to blame this on, I think it is much more complex than "Clinton did it". However, I know that all that effort currently being spent on identity politics is a wasted effort while real issues, like catastrophic wealth inequality or collapse of unions, go undressed.

    2. Re:Leftism doesn't eat it's own by fafalone · · Score: 2

      Speaking as a White guy, White Privilege is real. Us White Guys are painfully aware of it. We've had decades of preferential treatment in loans, school admissions, job interviews and the like. I'm not going to argue this point, it's a historic fact. Go google a bit and educate yourself.

      And by and large, we all decided those things weren't right and everyone should be treated equally. But SJWs decided equality wasn't good enough, and preferential treatment should be kept but the groups who receive it swapped. It's perfectly rational that this gets a lot of pushback, as the underlying principle, that discrimination is ok as long as it's against the right people, is fundamentally flawed and has no place in a just society. Compounding this is the complete and utter refusal to accept any explanation other than 'racism/sexism' for why equality of outcome is not always observed, even when those explanations are clearly documented facts. So while discrimination isn't of the same magnitude currently, it's clearly heading in that direction, and entirely worthwhile to oppose before it's further entrenched--- saying that 'Because your skin color is A, or because you have junk B between your legs, you will be treated differently' is always wrong, regardless of what A or B are.
      It bothers me in particular because it's an issue on my general side of the political spectrum. I think Republicans are by far the worse party for civil rights and prosperity of those not already wealthy, and that Trump is the greatest enemy of the people, and would never even consider voting (R). So I see the liberal side violating its principles of advancing civil rights, and refuse to go along. It's especially infuriating to speak out against this and be lumped in with the conservative assholes who complain about it not out of a principled stand for equality, but because they want to retain their preferential treatment. But I oppose it nonetheless.

    3. Re:Leftism doesn't eat it's own by sinij · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. This is how concept of privilege is used by the leftist. They never acknowledge that it is group characteristic, they always tell that YOU as individual have white privilege, that YOU personally benefited from it, therefore YOU shouldn't have any say in X, or should be reverse discriminated to make up for past injustices that probably have nothing to do with you.

    4. Re:Leftism doesn't eat it's own by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      Sure white privilege as concept is idiotic, but it's actually a very clever trick. Abrahamic religions use a similar concept of the original sin, while conveniently providing a path to atonement and redemption. That certainly has proven to be effective.

      Look how often white leftists virtue signal, so they can feel good about themselves after all the guilt and shame that has been drilled into them for reasons beyond their fault or control. Then when they encounter another weak minded person, the cycle even has a good chance of repeating itself.

      Conditioning people to dismiss an argument based solely on the race of the person making it, despite a firmly held belief that racism itself is detestable, is actually a pretty impressive feat of social engineering.

  56. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    High Five

  57. Most crap jobs won't pay you by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    when you're out for jury duty. If you live paycheck to paycheck jury duty can cause you to fall behind on bills. You lose $40 bucks in pay, get an over draft or take a payday loan and before you know it you're screwed. If you're poor and get stuck on a jury then you can pretty much kiss anything you have goodby. Folks have lost cars, apartments and houses over it.

    Basically we've got millions of people who are one car payment away from homelessness (no car == no job == no place to live). The threat Jury duty's low pay is a big part of what keeps them from voting.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Most crap jobs won't pay you by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      The State tries to accommodate and the Judge will ask if you cannot serve.
      Poor people aren't peers because they're poor?
      They can't handle the only civic responsibility (that occurs maybe once or twice in a lifetime) but they are responsible enough to vote for the State to govern properly?

      Sorry, something has to give. It's "rights and responsibilities". I sympathize but what you gave is an excuse that I would expect from a child. When I was summoned I was in school full-time, working full-time, and living paycheck to paycheck. Yet, I served.

  58. So you oppose Democracy by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    right? I just want to make sure we're on the same page. You're telling me people should be effectively disenfranchised. That you're OK with Voter Suppression.

    I'd like to say you don't know what you're saying, but I get the idea that you know exactly what you mean. Like I said elsewhere, I'm not a strong enough person to get guys like you to understand the ramifications of your mistake. All I can hope for is that other people will read your post and be so appalled by it they'll react against it and marginalize you, make you not matter.

    Sad thing is you're kind's useful to the billionaires. You vote how they tell you when they tell you and fight to keep anyone else from voting....

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  59. That would explain why the American CIA by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    is fucking with them and basically just put a right wing whack job in charge of the country in clear defiance of the will of the people. Seriously, google it. We've been fucking with them like crazy and the American Voter (yes, that includes you) looking the other way.

    This is the one thing I'm scared of: will the ruling class let us have Democracy. So far with Gerrymandering and Voter Suppression the answer has been 'no'. But but guys like you haven't been trying very hard. Maybe if you did....

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  60. More anime nerds get banned by Youtube by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    for posting bits of cartoon girls with bouncy boobs than Republicans. Youtube bans what the advertisers don't like. Blame the advertisers if you don't like it.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  61. Communism is an economic system by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Democracy is a governmental one. The two aren't related.

    You're reciting a right wing talking point meant to give Democracy a bad name. Somebody wants to turn you into a fascist so they can take your stuff. Now you just have to figure out who.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  62. Re:In case anyone wonders why this AC seems so odd by e3m4n · · Score: 1

    you should read Radio Warfare: OSS and CIA subversive Propoganda. If you think Karl Rove perfected this, this book will blow your mind. This shit has been tooling up since WWII.

  63. Student Debt by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Assuming Voter Suppression doesn't shut them down the young'uns they're gonna come back with a vengeance. Their completely weighted down by debt. Usually that means they'll want progressive policies.

    OTOH they might just turn against the old folks. Demand an end to Social Security, Medicare, shutting down the VA & military pension programs, etc, etc. Hard to say.

    But given how screwed they are (they make 20% less than baby boomers with more education) they're gonna be more political, Youtube or not.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  64. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by psycho12345 · · Score: 1

    No problem. Those people also reserve the right to ignore any civic responsibilities, and are automatically exempted from the military, civil judgments, or jury duty, since they can't vote and don't get any benefit from the above. Maybe then we will stop sending our people to die when it is only the rich who can be sent off to war. Also, since they can't vote, they are not bound by any law passed by those who did vote. So no taxes can be levied against them, and also they are exempt from any civil crimes (ie they can pollute at will). Then maybe you can understand why we gave everyone the franchise to begin with. You take away voting, you take away the only skin people have in the game, and so YOU become free game.

  65. Re:Where are you from that colleges have no pollin by fafalone · · Score: 1

    Name one college where that is true. Usually there are polling places ON campus, because they have a lot of buildings with rooms that can be devoted to polling quite easily.

    Well the last election I was in college for was 2004, and it was certainly true there. UMiami had plenty of room on campus, and heck we hosted a Presidential Debate there that year (a massive circus like you wouldn't believe), but come election day, there was no polling place on campus. We had to go to a public library that was about a 10-15min drive from campus, was not accessible by public transportation, the university offered no shuttle service, and the wait was around 2 hours.

  66. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

    Specious argument at best. But sure, let's play the math game.

    The top 10% currently own 77% of American wealth., and the wealth inequality trend is getting much worse for the poor. WIth that, I'd call the rich paying 66% of the taxes to be a lighter burden than you'd have us believe.

  67. Re:Georgia is purging them from the rolls by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

    With some context, the original Constitution also severely limited women's rights to vote, beyond this whole land-owner argument. This among, many, many other changes that were badly needed.

  68. You're strawmaning by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    which is exactly what ANTIFA is. And nobody's laughing at the neo-nazis. We're terrified of them and of how mainstream they've become. I'll take a bit of heckling at a restaurant to a lynch mob's noose any day of the week.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  69. Re:youtube is for the illierate by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

    I spend hours watching youtube. Lots of CSPAN and congressional hearings, police bodycam/dashcam footage, and other first-hand raw video.

    Why? It's helpful to come to my own conclusions. Added bonus: when the event is reported on by a deceptive media, it becomes immediately obvious.

  70. One thing people always forget by Dirk+Becher · · Score: 1

    "Serving gays" and "making a gay wedding cake" are two different things. In the first case you refuse to hand over a certain demographic something everyone else gets ( a regular wedding cake ) while in the latter case you are forced to make something you regularly don't offer. The latter case has sustained in court - otherwise shops that only serve a certain demographic ( like female hairdressers or male shoe shops ) wouldn't be possible.