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Music Industry Asks US Government To Reconsider Website Blocking (torrentfreak.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TorrentFreak: At the start of this decade, U.S. lawmakers drafted several controversial bills to make it easier for copyright holders to enforce their rights online. These proposals, including SOPA and PIPA, were met with fierce resistance from the public as well as major technology companies. They feared that the plans, which included pirate site-blocking measures, went too far. In the many years that followed, the "site blocking" issue was avoided like the plague. The aversion was mostly limited to the U.S., as website blocking became more and more common abroad, where it's one of the entertainment industries' preferred anti-piracy tools.

Emboldened by these foreign successes, it appears that rightsholders in the U.S. are now confident enough to bring the subject up again, albeit very gently. Most recently the site-blocking option was mentioned in a joint letter (PDF) from the RIAA and the National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA), which contained recommendations to the Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator (IPEC) Vishal Amin. The IPEC requested input from the public on the new version of its Joint Strategic Plan for Intellectual Property Enforcement. According to the music industry groups, website blocking should be reconsidered an anti-piracy tool.
"There are several changes that should be made legislatively to help legal authorities and third parties better protect intellectual property rights," the music groups write. "These include fixing the DMCA, making it a felony to knowingly engage in unauthorized streaming of copyrighted works, and investigating the positive impact that website blocking of foreign sites has in other jurisdictions and whether U.S. law should be revised accordingly."

"As website blocking has had a positive impact in other countries without significant unintended consequences, the U.S. should reconsider adding this to its anti-piracy tool box," the RIAA and NMPA write.

203 comments

  1. The felony part will change stuff from civil to cr by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The felony part will change stuff from civil to criminal courts where the standard of standard of evidence is a lot higher

  2. the constitution will make it hard to block an sit by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    the constitution will make it hard to block an site as that is an 1st issue

  3. Felony? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A felony for streaming? ROFL. Thatll go over well.

    1. Re:Felony? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Getting my crotch x-ray on a Flight to Florida, that'll go over well.

      Yes, yes it has, and yes it will.

  4. Music industry is obsolete by sinij · · Score: 2

    Music industry (i.e. record labels) is obsolete and haven't mattered since artists went digital. Why are they still being listened to?

    1. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      because they have so much money from decades of ripping everyone off, they can afford expensive lawyers to try an ensure their incomes.

    2. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Because they spend money on campaign contributions.

      Hmm... If we all chip in, you think we could afford a politician that actually works for us for a change?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are not obsolete. They provide something indies cannot: large-scale marketing.

      And this isn't just something the music industry wants. The movie industry is very much in favor of such things too. That's a lot of campaign contributions.

    4. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2


      Hmm... If we all chip in, you think we could afford a politician that actually works for us for a change?

      During the benighted campaign in which we finally found both a giant douche and a turd sandwich so foul that whoever won was certain to be the ruination of us all, I considered this. Why did we end up with two candidates who were provably not in the best interests of the general public, could we outbid their respective PACs to get a better agenda from one of the candidates?

      I think the answer is probably no, not effectively. Even if we could raise the money, which is a complex topic itself, the idea that we could direct that money at a single politician whose agenda aligns well enough with ours is provably impossible: we can't even pick the best of two in a contest that doesn't eventually boil down to a coin toss. We have no consensus, and while on each issue alone we probably can pick the best choice with some degree of authority, when all the issues are boiled together and marketed, we fall on our faces.

      Take all the major issues that political campaigns focus on and divide us. Then add in all the ACTUAL issues that we should be paying attention to instead. Hold a vote, let the general public decide what the best policy is on each of these issues. Then build a platform that encompasses these results, then purchase, not one, but as many politicians as it takes to make this platform viable. Determine the amount of money that will be required to purchase these politicians over their superPAC contributors (about $2bln, in 2016), and ask each person who voted to pay their fair share. What I think will happen is that the issues will so sharply divide and alienate voters that the surviving fraction of people who can swallow the resulting platform will have to pay a huge amount per person, possibly an impossible amount for your average earner. And that's just to outbid at 2016 levels, you bet your ass that these superPACs can afford a whole lot more, they simply don't need to. Then add on how many of them can offer politicians more personal value: insider information, retirement plans, nice dinners at expensive places, etc. It's too much.

    5. Re:Music industry is obsolete by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Personal opinion aside on the quality of popular music.
      They are a lot of amateur artists and musicians who really just suck. It isn't that we don't get their art, it is that they are just bad at it. The record industry is still the massive firewall to weed out the untalented performers who think they are all that, and help talented performers tune their craft. Then there is the push to sell and market them as a brand.

      Even for digital music, most of the popular stuff is from record labels. The freelance stuff rarely ever makes it past a local following. Or just Mom and Dad.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re: Music industry is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need more represented political parties. You are correct that we are not going to get everyone to agree on a platform. We need more ideas, more options, different politicians; in general a wider field that is harder to buy with super PAC money.

    7. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

      That's why direct democracy is a bad thing. Unless you want the country to be even more run by the media than it is already. Because all you'd get with direct democracy and people voting on everything is that the "news" (I'll use the word very broadly here) will be even more an instrument of public opinion swaying than they are already.

      Take a look around the people you live with. If you have a good stomach, take a good look at YouTube and watch what completely insane nuts peddle various conspiracy theories that are greedily gobbled up as revelation, as the "truth" the "elites" keep you from learning (oddly nobody bothers to give any reason why the "elites" would benefit from you thinking that, say, the earth is round).

      And THEN ponder once more whether you really want THESE people to vote on important issues. Issues that will in the end affect you and your life.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:Music industry is obsolete by thogard · · Score: 1

      20 years ago a local radio station ran a contest to find local new music. The rules were something along the lines that the band had to have made the album in the last year that had at least 6 songs, they could nominate one of the songs for the contest and they had to live in the listening area. They had about 3,000 albums submitted from a population area of about 3 million. I take that to mean that there is about one album made per year for each 1,000 people. That could mean as many as about 7.2 million new albums a year. and I expect most of them wouldn't be very good.

      The recording industry associations are not about selling the new work of artists, they seem to want to restrict access to it so they can keep selling their older catalog stuff.

    9. Re:Music industry is obsolete by zilym · · Score: 1

      Nope, the "popular" stuff is force fed to us, making it defacto popular rather than actually being of high quality. Today's recording industry sucks. It's created by a small handful of people who have developed a winning marketing strategy that maintains their monopoly, not a pool of creative, unique and talented musicians. You've been jedi-mind tricked into believing that they are the end-all, be-all of music.

      Yes, there does exist plenty of amateur musicians that suck worse than the recording industry. But open your mind and do a little digging and weeding work of your own. You can find plenty of amateur musicians that rival and even far exceed the recording industry's best. YouTube has helped a lot with this -- once you break into a community of actual talent, word of mouth/referral links will help you expand your circle and find further high quality artists with less effort than the initial push you made.

    10. Re:Music industry is obsolete by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Of course the Music Industry matters. They have money. They may not matter for the industry, but they certainly matter for poor politicians desperate for donations.

    11. Re:Music industry is obsolete by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Because they spend money on campaign contributions.

      Hmm... If we all chip in, you think we could afford a politician that actually works for us for a change?

      You are overrating money.

      We didn't get a President Forbes, despite all of Steve Forbes' money. He didn't even win the party nomination.

      Money matters, but blaming your losses on money is a way of avoiding the fact that you didn't make a compelling case (yet) to enough of the public.

      Focusing on money in politics is also a trick to get away with regulating speech.

    12. Re: Music industry is obsolete by edris90 · · Score: 1

      No because the politician is not loyal to the money is already paid the politician is that additional money will be spent derail them. Is not for reward the politicians operate but by threat

    13. Re:Music industry is obsolete by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 0

      And THEN ponder once more whether you really want THESE people to vote on important issues. Issues that will in the end affect you and your life.

      Regardless of how little you think of them and their decision-making abilities, they have the right to have some say in the externalities that others are proposing to impose on them, whether in the form of taxes or regulations—just as you have the right to fight back against the externalities they want to impose on you. If there's one thing representative democracies have in common it's the fact that elected "representatives" really only represent themselves and those who fund their campaigns; their official constituents are only a means to an end, a source of votes to be manipulated by any means available. The right answer here is a direct democracy with voting weighted according to who will be asked to pay the cost. Anyone can make a proposal, but if you aren't proposing to pay for it yourself then you don't get a say in whether it passes. This fixes the primary flaw with one-person-one-vote direct democracy, which is people voting themselves largess from "the Treasury" (i.e. their more responsible neighbors).

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    14. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the globe manufacturers. They stand to lose a fortune if its revealed the world is actually flat. It's all that filthy Big Cartography money corrupting the political system.

    15. Re:Music industry is obsolete by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Hmm... If we all chip in, you think we could afford a politician that actually works for us for a change?

      Isn't that how Beto rose to fame?

      --
      I tend to rant.
    16. Re:Music industry is obsolete by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Unless you want the country to be even more run by the media than it is already. Because all you'd get with direct democracy and people voting on everything is that the "news" (I'll use the word very broadly here) will be even more an instrument of public opinion swaying than they are already.

      We can implement a simple process change to fix that.

      For a bill to become law, it must:
      1. Be voted on twice, with the second time more than 2 years after the first
      2. Pass with a majority in the first round
      3. Pass with a super majority in the second round, e.g. 60%

      Alternatively, if a bill passes with an even higher super-majority, e.g. 75%, then the 2nd round can be skipped.

      I believe at least 30% of the country are conservatives (with a small c) who like things exactly as they are. Combined with the folks who distrusts MSM, they'd be more than enough to stop news-driven policies.

      Take the Iraq war for example. It happened in 2003 and began with 70% support. That is not enough to be passed immediately. So it would be voted on again in 2005, but by then support has fallen to less than 50%, which is not enough to pass. So this huge expense that the vast majority of people now agree was a mistake could've been avoided completely under a direct democracy.

    17. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So anything that only benefits a minority directly will get shot down. Great. New road up on the hill? Nah, I don't live there and neither do 70% of the people here. Unfortunately it means that you can't live up there anymore so real estate down below becomes impossible to afford. But nobody sees that when voting no on a road he doesn't need. How about funding for colleges and universities? Nah, what for, I have my degree, screw you! Pity though that when I'm turning 80 and need a doctor there won't be any around, but I could probably get a burger around the clock.

      People don't pay attention to future events. They don't plan ahead. They want an immediate revenue and someone else will somehow magically take care of everything that's ahead. Yes, representative democracy is far from perfect. But there's definitely worse options. I don't know any better ones, though.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    18. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Super majority would guarantee no laws are passed unless they were absolutely not controversial. I'm not sure anything that matters is not controversial.

      I do like some of your idea though. A law is passed by majority, and all laws have a mandatory sunset period (2 years sounds good) then it gets voted on again, once again by simple majority. If it passes the second time, it gets a 6 year sunset period for revote (always thereafter). This can help us stop some of the knee-jerk stuff and remove political capital involved in revoking ancient laws that serve no purpose any longer.

      I think having laws expire will take a lot of the wind out of the sails of corporate purchased laws like this one. Of course it does have the potential of weighing congress down into a perpetual cycle of renewal.

    19. Re:Music industry is obsolete by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Super majority would guarantee no laws are passed unless they were absolutely not controversial.

      That not true. It could be controversial, but as long as less than 40% of the people are consistently against it, it will pass eventually.

      The point of requiring a super majority is to prevent flip-flopping. The only thing worse than a bad policy is a bad policy that constantly changes. Over time people can come up with ways to deal with a bad policy, but they can't keep up with a moving target.

      I'm not sure anything that matters is not controversial.

      Where did you get this from? Lots of things are important but uncontroversial. Having elections matters quite a lot, but providing government funding for them is not controversial. Courts are important and uncontroversial. So are police, firefighters, federal currency, standardized measurements, military... need I go on?

    20. Re:Music industry is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The scary thing is Trump won at least in part because he was a beloved reality TV star and had name recognition.

      And then others who may not be into reality TV believed in the myth that he became a multi-billionaire with just a small loan from his father so he must be super-smart.

      I'm not saying he's not smart, but there was no basis to think he could be a good president without ever having served in office before. If he had run as a mayor, governor, Representative or even Senator and proved his worth then it would have made a little more sense to me.

      But people were willing to just hand over the reins to the Oval Office without really knowing how he would do. That's scary too.

      I don't think Trump would have been satisfied with being anything but the President though.

    21. Re:Music industry is obsolete by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Man, you give the bourgeoisie a bad name!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. Entertainment industry is a parasite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The entertainment industry is a parasite. There isn't any compromise on reasonable copyright protections, such as asking for stronger anti-piracy measures while allowing works to enter the public domain within a reasonable period of time. Piracy is a growing problem because exclusive deals that restrict content to a single streaming service drive up prices for consumers, which is just more greed from the entertainment industry. Website blocking is a slippery slope and has serious consequences for free speech. Of course, the RIAA and MPAA will say there are no unintended consequences, but they are also illegal cartels acting to defend their own interests.

  6. Abolish copyright by Stormwatch · · Score: 0

    Copyright is rent-seeking and harms society as a whole. It should not exist at all.

    1. Re:Abolish copyright by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd disagree. With copyright, I can publish a book and be assured that someone else (say, a large publisher) won't just grab the text of my book and sell it without giving me any money. I can also be assured that a potential movie produced from my work would earn me money instead of a studio simply taking the work and making a movie without paying me anything.

      The real problem is that the length of copyright protection has been abused horribly. Copyright serves a valuable purpose as a LIMITED monopoly, but large corporations have essentially removed the "limited" portion. (Yes, it's still technically limited in that you can wait for about 95-120 years to use the work, but that's literally a lifetime so it might as well be forever.)

      Copyright should be reverted to the 14 year span plus an additional 14 years if you renew the work. I'd even be willing to compromise with the large companies who would suddenly see a huge amount of their work entering the public domain. Everything produced up to the start of the "Original Copyright Term Length Act" would be assumed to be automatically renewed. Furthermore, we would phase it in for old works. Start with everything produced in the 1920's and 1930's that is still under copyright protection. Then, after 3 years, everything from the 1940's. And so on until everything is either Public Domain or covered under the new law. Yes, it would take 27 years to completely catch up, but it would give businesses time to shift their strategies to accommodate the new (old?) laws of the land.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Abolish copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's your opinion. Others won't agree with it. How many publishers are even aware of who the different artists are that go into their work let alone the artists who were left out of a movie or something for various reasons. The payment system can be a total mess in certain instances.

    3. Re:Abolish copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can also be assured that a potential movie produced from my work would earn me money

      I wouldn't be so sure about that...

    4. Re:Abolish copyright by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Copyright is rent-seeking and harms society as a whole. It should not exist at all.

      hmmmm, I dunno about that. It is overused and massively abused and in it's current state does more harm than good but there is ultimately a reason for it, in theory at least.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    5. Re:Abolish copyright by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Hollywood accounting is straight up fraud, nothing to do with copyright. Except when they sell the copyright to themselves at massive cost then rent it back from themselves for even more to hide a bunch of money from the net profit but that's by the by.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    6. Re:Abolish copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With copyright, I can publish a book and be assured that someone else (say, a large publisher) won't just grab the text of my book and sell it without giving me any money.

      Yes, but with post-1998 copyright, you can publish and sell a book and make it illegal for your paying customers to read the book that they bought.

      If we have to choose between one or the other, then repealing copyright is the lesser of two evils.

      Copyright with DMCA+DRM is simply unworkable. Until either DMCA is repealed or DRM is outlawed (pick either one), the only sensible thing to do is pirate (throw out copyright altogether). And everyone who still isn't pirating yet is part of the problem, because they're keeping this status quo funded. Stop funding fraud and maybe we can bring copyright back. Maybe. Assuming not everyone has been completely habituated to piracy by then. Tick tock.

    7. Re:Abolish copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creation should be incentivized, duplications shouldn't. Yes, there's no apparent way to do this.

      Let me try to explain it like you're five:

      - You still get your money
      - Anyone can indeed grab the text of your book, including when you disappear in the bermuda triangle, if they're aliens from alpha centurai, your identity is stolen
      - Yes Jason you got money

      I'm aware of the paradox, of the big "somehow" in the first sentence. And I'm not saying I support GP, but I do say that putting a dollar value on imaginary constructs is a stopgap, not an intrinsic truth or reality. Maybe nothing better is feasible, but I simultaneously deny that our bandaid is "right".

    8. Re:Abolish copyright by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      can ... be assured that someone else (say, a large publisher) won't just grab the text of my book and sell it without giving me any money

      If you mean plagiarism, the solution to that is digital notaries. Ought to enhance them and raise their profile. If you mean, selling a print run, or even selling ebooks, there's stuff we can do about that too, without resorting to copyright and all its baggage. However, the end game is for selling of copies, particularly digital copies, to be allowed to die of obsolescence.

      There's just way too much "Mother may I?" about the current system. And it's largely because so many people are so afraid they might somehow be losing the profits they deserve for making it big, however illusory their bigness and profits are. Fear, loss, and fear of loss really pushes those emotional buttons. We could have a system in which a book printer runs whatever they want, no permissions required, and the authors are compensated through funds tied to various measures set up for the purpose of figuring out who is deserving of compensation, and how much, for measurably adding to our culture.

      It would be a great help if these rights proponents would promote systems and business models that actually can work, instead of continually trying to put the digital genie back in the bottle. They wail as if copyright is the one and only thing that can possibly keep artists from starving, and that's been debunked over and over. Seems the reasons they keep trying to propagandize in support of copyright is control and sheer greed. These days, a person can carry their entire collection of music and books discretely on their person on one flash drive, and the whole thing can be copied in a few minutes. That was utterly impractical in the days of the vinyl LP, and even in the 1990s with the mp3 codec and CD burners, it was still not quite there. Video is about the only thing that's still a little too big for casual throwaway handling, but storage continues to improve.

      Understand that pro-copyright is anti-education. Seriously. Holy Copyright has become the justification for locking knowledge and culture behind paywalls, controlling access down to the individual level. The school textbook market is one gigantic racket, in which the public is gouged repeatedly for knowledge that is in the public domain. Research is another monstrous racket. The public pays for research that academic publishers then lock away and hold for ransom.

      I really think copyright is doomed. It's only a question of when.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    9. Re:Abolish copyright by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I don't mean plagiarism. That's something else entirely. I mean specifically publishing a version of the work without the author's/artist's consent. For example, I self-published a novel. I own the copyright on it and all money from the sales (after Amazon's Kindle cut) comes to me. I get to decide what price to sell it at, where it's available, what the cover art is, etc.

      Now suppose a major publisher discovered my book and loved it. However, instead of offering me a publishing contract, they decided that they're a large publisher and I'm just a small fry so they bought a copy, ripped the text, and made a new version of the book. They then could put it on Amazon and sell it. Suddenly, I'm competing against my own book. I happen to have published my book two years ago, but the big publishing company could do this instantly. And since they're a big publishing company, they can get the book in book stores (something I can't do right now) and earn money from those sales as well as online sales. Even people who thought they were supporting me might be, instead, sending money to a big publisher who wasn't paying me anything.

      I could take the big publishing company to court and under the current laws I'd have a strong case. Suppose, however, that we ditched copyright entirely. What would be my recourse? I could sue them but without copyright law to rely on, I wouldn't have much of a case. Without some system in place to protect authors/artists, the big companies would just repackage and resell everything and keep the money for themselves.

      Like I said, I don't think copyright should be forever. I'd be perfectly happy keeping copyright on my novel for 14-28 years and then turning it over to the public domain. That would be more than enough time for me. However, without a replacement system in place, abolishing copyright will just help big corporations and hurt artists and authors.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:Abolish copyright by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Copyright is an artificial extension of the natural right of exclusivity of control over who could copy a work they had created if the creator never allowed anyone to access the work in the first place. In theory, copyright exists to give people incentive to publish and share their works with other people while still enjoying a limited form of that original exclusivity insomuch as it can be enforced by law.

      Without copyright, it's pretty much a given that people will resort to self-censorship as a means of protecting their control over their works, and it will, in general, be more difficult to acquire such works in a fashion that will be readily consumable. You might be able to freely copy any work you could get your hands on in the absence of copyright, but I dare say it would generally be harder to get ones hands on works that had any appreciable quality... the best works would generally be effectively held under lock and key and only given to specially selected people instead of the public. If you think the signal to noise ratio on the internet is bad now because of all the crap on it drowning out any of the good stuff, try and imagine it being a hundred times or so worse.

    11. Re:Abolish copyright by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      In theory, copyright exists to give people incentive to publish and share their works with other people while still enjoying a limited form of that original exclusivity insomuch as it can be enforced by law.

      You are confusing means and ends. Copyright is a temporary monopoly that is granted as an incentive to the creation of works that ultimately are turned to public domain and benefit society as a whole.

      Let me stress this: copyright exists to enrich the public domain. If it fails at that, it has no reason whatsoever to exist, and must be abolished.

    12. Re:Abolish copyright by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Oh I'm sure that will work really well. Authors will love writing books for free. I'm sure they will all find other ways of feeding themselves while they write.

    13. Re:Abolish copyright by sabbede · · Score: 1

      How many publishers are even aware of who the different artists are that go into their work

      All of them. Unless their business focuses solely on producing compilations of public domain material, in which case they will know exactly who did the compiling.

    14. Re:Abolish copyright by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Let me stress this: copyright exists to enrich the public domain.

      Absolutely. You'll get no argument from me.

      If it fails at that, it has no reason whatsoever to exist, and must be abolished.

      This is, I think, throwing the metaphorical baby out with the bathwater. While the implementation of copyright today is atrocious, I do not think it is so bad that it it merits the abolishment of copyright entirely. Certainly it would be preferable for copyright to be dialed back to durations that are more in line with the the concept of, what you say, having the concept of being a "temporary monopoly". Technically speaking, however, even the absurd duration that is on copyright today is, in fact, still temporary.

      And to that end, I believe that absolishing copyright entirely would actually cause more problems than it would actually solve. Abolishing copyright would, I think, result would be a society so entirely filled with self-censorship that only the very rich or elite would ever tend to get any access to newly created works of any appreciable quality. To an extent, sufficiently skilled (and altruistic) people outside of this group might be able to effectively obtain copies some of these works as well and distribute them publicly if they so chose, but you can bet that the groups that controlled access to the content would be doing everything in their power to keep that from happening, and would certainly put into effect whatever measures were possible to minimize its frequency, even if they could not actually entirely eliminate it. The result would be a vastly reduced amount of works with any quality, and public domain would become effectively synonymous with "useless tripe". In general, the only things that most people would ever openly publish are the things that they had no interest in ever claiming authorship of in the first place. Over time, rather than benefiting society as public domain should, the availability of such works that nobody had any interest in claiming originality for in the first place would tend to result in the dumbing down of society - the very opposite of progress and enrichment.

      While you'll get no argument from me that our current (and for the forseeable future) implementation of copyright is abhorrent, I believe that its abolishment would be orders of magnitude worse in terms of its impact on public domain and how it can enrich society.

    15. Re:Abolish copyright by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 1

      Why not set it equal to 10 years. And you can renew every 10 years until the end of time but the cost of renewing doubles every time. Say a copyright costs $100. For 10 years, it's $100. Next 10 is $200. Then $400, $800, $1600, $3200, $6400 after 70 years.

      After some point, the value of a property is going to not justify the costs of renewal. Maybe the major rights holders keep holding on to properties indefinitely in hopes of a remake/cover/etc. But so much of that stuff will be a cost sink that rights holders will have to let some things go.

      Maybe the rate increase isn't high enough. Or perhaps the initial cost to file a copyright isn't high enough. But surely we can come up with something.

    16. Re:Abolish copyright by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      I'd be perfectly happy keeping copyright on my novel for 14-28 years and then turning it over to the public domain.

      Have you ever done that? Or have plans to release all your works to the public domain as they reach the age of 14 or 28 years?

      Without some system in place to protect authors/artists, the big companies would just repackage and resell everything and keep the money for themselves.

      We'd all like to be safe and secure from big thieving bullies, but the price of some forms of protection is too high. Authors deserve and need compensation. Protection from that particular scenario you mentioned doesn't directly lead to more compensation for authors. The point of replacing the copyright system is freedom of knowledge, as is our natural right. These big publishers won't be able to repackage and resell, not when the people can simply bypass them and visit an online public library for the same works. We want these gouging, thieving private publishers permanently removed from any and all possibility of setting themselves up as the monopoly gatekeepers of knowledge and culture, able to hoard artistic and scientific works and refuse to release them for anything less than a supplicant's left arm and first born child.

      As for fairly compensating authors, that's what we should be working on. Need more crowdfunding, more public patronage, and need systems in place to keep fraud to a minimum.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    17. Re:Abolish copyright by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I haven't released anything of mine into Public Domain, but then again my first novel is only 2 years old. Talk to me again in 12-26 years.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  7. kabuki theatre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    kabuki theatre in full swing. This will be used to silence any site those in power do not want heard.

  8. Emboldened by these foreign successes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I live in UK, there was a large push at one point to try and ban *everything* and they started adding the usual sites and proxies. Then when more sprung up they added those and so on. At some point they just got bored and it stopped. Dunno what the next move is.

    1. Re:Emboldened by these foreign successes? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      A strange game.
      The only winning move is not to play.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:Emboldened by these foreign successes? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      You try to go to the pirate bay, it's blocked. You go to google and type pirate bay proxy and you're back in business. It's a token effort at best.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  9. Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's becoming clear that protection of intellectual property (IP) is costly. In the physical world, people pay a property tax for fire & police protection. Maybe it's time for IP property holders to pay a tax on their property as well. Any IP whose tax is unpaid reverts to the public domain, and the pool of IP taxes collected can be used to defray the costs of protecting paid-up intellectual property. Go ahead, shoot holes in this modest proposal!

    1. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure, I'll take a swing at this. The real issue here is how copyrights are being used and enforced, not whether copyrights are reasonable. Aside from releasing works to the public domain, free software licenses rely on copyright in order to be enforceable. The GPL grants a lot of rights to end users such as the right to see the source to any GPL-licensed software distributed to them. Without copyright, the GPL could not be enforced, and end users would effectively lose those rights. I don't think that owners of some forms of intellectual property, such as copyrights on free software, should have to pay taxes on those copyrights. Your proposal, if applied to all intellectual property, would have a lot of unintended consequences.

    2. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike physical property it can be sole over and over again. Presumably they are already paying income taxes on the sold property.

    3. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Without copyright, the GPL could not be enforced, and end users would effectively lose those rights"

      Strawman, red herring, double-speak... Wunderbar!

      No IP, no copyright = no contract and commercial law. HAHA.

    4. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check your reading comprehension. I'm suggesting that many copyright holders would be unwilling to pay taxes on IP that probably isn't generating revenue. By your proposal, such IP would revert to the public domain. That is an unintended, and probably negative, consequence. Why should those who hold copyrights to free software have to pay a tax on it?

    5. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      This is clear evidence that open debate is required. Without it, the state of IP will simply advance at a snail's pace, in the favor of the "in" crowd.

    6. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good point. I'll take a stab. Perhaps the copyright holder could estimate a value for the copyright, and the tax would be a tiny percent of that estimate; perhaps with a cutoff for zero tax below a threshold. Also the largest infringement action would be related to that value. Platinum records would pay a high tax; phone app taxes would be low or zero.

    7. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many property taxes are based on the sale price of the property.

      Sale price of GPL software is $0.

      Simply base the property tax as tax payable = nnn% * total revenue from software sales

      $0 for projects that intend to be free. Expensive for software that isn't.

      Considering the rarity with which one sees free software end up in copyright court, it shouldn't be a problem.

    8. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's time for IP property holders to pay a tax on their property as well. Any IP whose tax is unpaid reverts to the public domain, and the pool of IP taxes collected can be used to defray the costs of protecting paid-up intellectual property. Go ahead, shoot holes in this modest proposal!

      Deep-pocketed industry groups like the RIAA would love it, as they can afford the tax but small, independant competitors would struggle to pay the fee and find a profit. Thus publishing creative works would be even more cost-prohibitive than it is already, unless you're loaded.

      Congratulations, you've achieved the exact opposite of what you set out to do!

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    9. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Not entirely...

      Let's imagine copyright didn't exist. Let's say that some relatively unknown person tries to create a work they want to be freely available in the manner of the GPL, and they put it on the internet. Then, some bigger entity that is more widely known comes across it and appropriates it, but they do not provide the source code, which would have otherwise been required under something like the GPL. Because of how widely known the larger agency is, the smaller might not necessarily be easily found when trying to find the source code, and that's even *if* somebody bothers to look, and the creator's intent of wanting to keep the work's source code freely available is effectively destroyed, while if the larger entity had not appropriated the source code for their own purposes, trying to find it would not be as hard because there wouldn't be as much "noise" over the closed source version interfering with finding the source code.

      Even the BSD license, which does not require that you provide source code, still requires that you acknowledge the original license, which in turn would effectively keep awareness of the original work from being lost because of the pervasiveness of someone's distribution of it. Without copyright, there would no obligation on anyone's part to acknowlege even this. Does it follow that the unchecked plagiarism which would result is ethical?

    10. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe it's time for IP property holders to pay a tax on their property as well. Any IP whose tax is unpaid reverts to the public domain, and the pool of IP taxes collected can be used to defray the costs of protecting paid-up intellectual property. Go ahead, shoot holes in this modest proposal!

      When the authors of the copyright/patent designed the IP system, the only role they assigned to the state is judicial recognition of valid copyright. In exchange for a temporary monopoly granted by the state, the role of enforcing IP was assigned squarely to the domain of the holder(s). In other words, the copyright holder doesn't get a free ride. Nowhere in copyright law is the state obligated to provide corporate welfare through subsidizing IP enforcement via taxation or any subsidy, and to suggest otherwise would conflict with the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" clause in the US Constitution and the 5th/14th Amendment that government cannot deprive an person of life, liberty, and property without due process of law.

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    11. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by zarmanto · · Score: 1

      ... Any IP whose tax is unpaid reverts to the public domain... Go ahead, shoot holes in this modest proposal!

      Okay; I'll try my aim. When any business entity is forced to pay a "tax" of any kind, it doesn't actually hurt them in the least... they just pass that cost downstream to the customer. Thus, the only IP which would become subject to your forfeiture clause would be those which nobody actually cares about enough to spend any money on them... and the public domain ends up being littered with utter crap.

      I don't know about you, but that doesn't actually sound all that appealing to me.

    12. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      If we tax them they'll expect more in return. I'd rather not give them any excuses to add censoring or other content filtering.

    13. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should revert it to the public domain instead of paying taxes on it.

    14. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      and to suggest otherwise would conflict with the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" clause in the US Constitution

      That's in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    15. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know why you think IP will advance at a snail's pace. Historically, more works are created when copyright is weak.

    16. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by houghi · · Score: 1

      So the little guy is srewed while the big guys can pay it. It will lower their price for bribery, er the legal one, as well. Great plan. /s

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    17. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by houghi · · Score: 1

      If there is no copyrigjt, why would you need to acknowledge where it comes from? If I find a rock and paint it, and sell it as a pet rock, does it matter where the rock comes from?

      Unless it is science related, it dies not matter what the origin is.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    18. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by houghi · · Score: 1

      As long as neither is enforced, theyycould be called, the three laws of Robotics. There as a plot device, not to be taken seriously.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    19. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      If you rent a house you pay income tax on your rental income. And you still have to pay your property tax.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    20. Re: Time for a tax on intellectual property? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If there is no copyright, why would you need to acknowledge where it comes from

      Legally? No reason at all. Ethically? That's another matter... Or do you think that there is nothing unethical about plagiarism?

    21. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really seems like it doesn't matter what the law actually says anymore, so doubt that pointing out there is no law written is a valid justification for doing something.

      You mention temporary monopoly, as is written in the first amendment.
      The last song I bought online was wrapped in DRM. DRM guarantees a permanent monopoly by way of math, as well as indicates intent of a permanent monopoly.

      If you go by what the law says, DRM protected works of art are not under copyright protection at all, as the government isn't permitted to register permanent copyright protection.

      Yet distributing such a public domain work is treated equal (or worse) to distributing a work under copyright protection.

      If that can be the case and permanent unlimited copyright protection can be granted and enforced, I don't see why the government wouldn't criminalize this either.

    22. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Oh sure, current copyright law is so great that people still think Apple invented the portable music player and Tesla invented the electric car.

      Because of how widely known the larger agency is, the smaller might not necessarily be easily found when trying to find the source code, and that's even *if* somebody bothers to look, and the creator's intent of wanting to keep the work's source code freely available is effectively destroyed

      You are out of touch with reality. In this day and age, if it exists on the internet and the author wants it found, then it will be found.

    23. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      You are out of touch with reality. In this day and age, if it exists on the internet and the author wants it found, then it will be found.

      I'm suggesting that is only possible *because* the little guy has the arm of copyright to keep larger companies from misappropriating what they create. If people with the same name as a suspected terrorist can end up on a no-fly list despite not having any affliation with the agencies for which such a prohibition was made, you can be sure that a larger company's effective takeover of some smaller company's codebase that they do not wish to compensate would easily drown out any efforts made by the smaller entity.

    24. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Small company uploads it to GitHub, their own website and The Pirate Bay. The big company will do what exactly?

      You might be able to convince a few tech companies to stop hosting "hate speech", but you're going to need a lot of money to get them to stop hosting or linking to source code, and I'm not even sure if those managing The Pirate Bay would accept money to take down a torrent.

      And if your argument is they can give it the same name to try to hide the smaller one, then we have trademark law to prevent that. No copyright necessary.

    25. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Nothing... the pervasiveness of the big company will be such that web searches will not tend to find the free versions of the software, people will generally not even be aware that it was originally free.

      Regardless, it's plagiarism at any level, and while it is legal to plagiairize public domain content, it is not considered remotely ethical.

    26. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      Nothing... the pervasiveness of the big company will be such that web searches will not tend to find the free versions of the software, people will generally not even be aware that it was originally free.

      That's their own problem. If someone wants to pay $10 for something at Home Depot when Walmart has the exact same thing for $5, it's their fault for not price shopping and it's not Home Depot's problem to fix.

      Regardless, it's plagiarism at any level, and while it is legal to plagiairize public domain content, it is not considered remotely ethical.

      I don't think anyone would disagree a company that appropriates it with no attribution would be acting unethically. Whether there should be a law against it is a different question.

    27. Re:Time for a tax on intellectual property? by sabbede · · Score: 1
      It's a standard government function paid for with existing taxes. Note that you do not pay a "police protection tax", or a "fire-fighting tax", just local property and sales taxes that cover those and a host of other services.

      And rather importantly, you are mistaken over who pays the cost of protecting IP. It's not a criminal matter prosecuted by the government, it's a civil matter where the IP holder takes the infringer to court. Who pays for the court? The litigants.

      So, in the end your proposal is a solution in search of a problem.

  10. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by olsmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taking away people's right to vote and own firearms because of streaming? Wow, talk about overreach. This should get laughed right out of Washington. Problem is, there's enough money behind it that it probably won't.

  11. Re:the constitution will make it hard to block an by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    It does seem like prior restraint to me. The last time that was a big issue was when the government was trying to hide bad actions form us, but that was before many of you were concerned with anything beyond your next meal. Without looking it up first, I bet a quick look into 'prior restraint' will help you consider of this is a good thing or not.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  12. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or maybe they just have a more honest proposal

  13. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    That was my first thought as well. You could have a group of people who have lost their right to vote because they had a P2P program running which accidentally or purposefully shared their music folder out. I'm of the opinion that copyright violations are wrong and should be punished, but definitely not with the level of fines we have today and absolutely not with a felony charge. (It should be something more along the lines of 10 times the market value of the copyrighted piece shared. So if you share a hundred songs which sell for $0.99 each, you'd pay a $990 fine.)

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  14. The local artist is obsolete by Layzej · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's the legal streaming sites that are killing the music industry. Local artists were able to make a living and even thrive 10 years ago during the period of rampant piracy. Streaming seems to do well for the top 100 artists, but is killing the local music scene. One local artist laments "This song has been in the TOP 20 charts (CBC Radio 2 & 3) for 10 weeks, climbed to #3. In 2018 that equals $44.99 in sales."

    This is an artist that was previously able to make a living through digital downloads. The ecosystem was much healthier in the rampant piracy years of the 2000s.

    1. Re:The local artist is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CRTC is killing local artists and will continue to do so. Rather than allowing the Big-8 to control the music industry and prop up good but not well known Canadian artists, the CRTC killed the golden goose to get the eggs inside. The end result after decades of that is that Canadian music sucks. Since stations are required by law to play an excessive amount of Canadian music they no longer pick what's good and just treat it as the filler that it is.

      Unsurprisingly, Canadians have completely given up on anything the CRTC controls and have moved to the internet, where stations play only what sounds good. Since Canadian artists haven't had to put in any effort for a long time to get air time, the talent here is junk and doesn't get played.

      Moral of the story: Don't let the government tell you what to listen to.

    2. Re:The local artist is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is why I stopped listening to music and stopped getting excited about music.

      Now I just listen to podcasts instead. Once in a while I do want to hear some music, so I just look through the collection I already have and see if any of those artists have made a new album.

    3. Re: The local artist is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds familiar... Lemme guess, you turned 30 recently?

    4. Re: The local artist is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No but in 3 years I will. I did stop watching anything with advertising, stopped watching previews/trailers, stopped watching YouTube, stopped using Facebook/Twitter, I pulled back a lot due to anxiety over politics, social media, and the news mill, and have been more carefully selective of any media I consume. Instead I'm preferring time with friends over a board game, pass-the-controller video games on the couch with friends, or collaboration on writing/drawing.

    5. Re:The local artist is obsolete by Layzej · · Score: 1

      The music scene in Canada 10 years ago was second to none. Bands like Arcade Fire, Stars, Deadly Snakes, Feist, Metric, Broken Social Scene, etc, etc, etc, plus dozens and dozens of smaller bands and labels. This was after 40 years of cancon regulations so I'm not sure you can blame cancon for the current state of affairs. Add the fact that no one listens to radio any more and cancon rules don't apply to streaming services - the argument could be made that the lack of cancon rules for new mediums is a part of the problem.

      Also, I don't think what is happening now is limited to Canada. Smaller artists around the world are feeling the pinch. The current market seems to have been built to prop up the top five labels at the expense of the larger ecosystem.

    6. Re:The local artist is obsolete by jwhyche · · Score: 3

      This is it exactly. Services like itunes and spotify, as well as sites like youtube and facebook have leveled the playing field for artists. People are finding music by artists that they would never discover on the radio or at the record store. My son in law has a band, and they are really good. But there is no way that a major label will pick them up. He told me last night they might have a spot on spotify.

      I have a theory that the anti streaming artists saying they are not getting paid enough. I think what is really happening is they are finding out what their music is really worth. An they are not happy about it.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    7. Re:The local artist is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people cared about their local artists, it wouldn't be an issue. The problem is people, in aggregate, don't really care that much. That's not a good or bad thing, but expecting to make money simply because you produce art is myopic and ishows a general lack of understanding the world in which we live.

    8. Re:The local artist is obsolete by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      Not Canadian but I think that it's a problem not limited to Canada. The fact is that local talent has always made the majority of their money from live performances. For some big performers, with really crappy contracts with distributors, they still make the majority of their money through live performances, which is why big name bands still do tours, and because distributors think that tours help sell product.

      The problem really is that the present paradigm is untenable. Streams are too easy and cheap to make much money off of, for both performers and media companies.

      The media companies want it to go back to like it was before, but of course it won't. At some level if they make it too onerous to get recorded music people will make their own or turn to live local artists, who will make most of their money through live performance.

    9. Re:The local artist is obsolete by Layzej · · Score: 1

      This is it exactly. Services like itunes and spotify, as well as sites like youtube and facebook have leveled the playing field for artists. People are finding music by artists that they would never discover on the radio or at the record store. My son in law has a band, and they are really good. But there is no way that a major label will pick them up. He told me last night they might have a spot on spotify.

      I wish your son luck. He may have a better shot on spotify if he's willing to fork out ‘playlist payola’: "The only problem is that the biggest playlists on Spotify aren’t organic, they’re bought-and-sold like radio playlists of old. Which means it’s nearly impossible to get discovered with great music alone (just like before)." - https://www.digitalmusicnews.c...

      P.S. you should post your son's band page. Can't hurt.

    10. Re:The local artist is obsolete by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      "In 2018 that equals $44.99 in sales."

      That obviously isn't much, but if its that popular, I would expect him to make decent money doing live performances. Maybe the ability to "make a living through digital downloads" is no longer an option, for good or bad. Not everyone can make a living working from home.

    11. Re:The local artist is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now artists have to actually tour and invest in merch to sell. Now they have to put in work, so cry me a river.

  15. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Umm... That would be a $9.90 fine. You're asking for 1000 times at $990.

  16. Music vs Internet by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 3

    The Music Industry has ZERO usefulness to society vs. the internet... tell them to kick rocks.

    1. Re:Music vs Internet by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      Except that music is aesthetically pleasing, and the internet is for the most part completely invisible.

    2. Re:Music vs Internet by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 1

      Minus the fact that it contains the sum of nearly ALL human knowledge in one place... Vs, What does music teach you again? LOL!

    3. Re:Music vs Internet by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Music won't go away if the industry dies. Kill the labels, keep the artists. Forget this whole pay a little bit and get everything subscription crap because you're just paying lots and lots of middle men so the artists die and the labels remain.

      If we keep going at this rate the top ten will just be the ten.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    4. Re:Music vs Internet by SinGunner · · Score: 1

      You do realize music existed for tens of thousands of years before the music industry existed, don't you? And that many, many artists have songs specifically about how bad the music industry is? Some examples:

      White Stripes - The Big 3 Killed My Baby

      The Animals - The Story of Bo Diddley

      Elvis Costello - Radio, Radio

      Pink Floyd - Gravy Train

    5. Re:Music vs Internet by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Except that music is aesthetically pleasing

      I'm guessing it has been a while since you've listened to the radio.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    6. Re:Music vs Internet by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      You do realize music existed for tens of thousands of years before the music industry existed, don't you?

      And both Vivaldi and Mozart died poor. In fact if it wasn't for patronage they probably wouldn't have been able to spend time composing at all. But there's something seriously wrong with an industry that turns some dude into a gazillionaire because he wrote a single "hit" and then sits back to collect royalties until the end of time. If anything this discourages future creativity -except from people who actually like creating new stuff. But those people would do it anyway - they don't do it for the financial "incentive".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:Music vs Internet by SinGunner · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting Vivaldi or Mozart would have died rich if the music industry had existed back then? Maybe if they decided to transition to producing instead of composing. Music thrives on diversity, which is the antithesis of industrialization.

    8. Re:Music vs Internet by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      You do realize music existed for tens of thousands of years before the music industry existed, don't you?

      Yup, and it wasn't nearly as good nor nearly as ubiquitous. Almost anything still played now was reflective of the tastes of a very small group of elite rich men.

    9. Re:Music vs Internet by SinGunner · · Score: 1

      Your statement is woefully uninformed. There is absolutely no way you can make a factual statement about the nature of pre-Edison music aside from what is recorded in sheet music or preserved through ritual and tradition. People used to play music in their homes EVERY NIGHT. A home without a resident musician was extremely rare before the invention of radio. The music lost to time, by its nature, dwarfs humanity's lost literature. You have no idea what you are talking about because you CANNOT BEGIN to have any idea what you are talking about. For all we know, some Mayan farmer could have invented a crude form of Dubstep before being murdered by Europeans.

    10. Re:Music vs Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Music People" by IAMX is another good one.
      "You belong to the industry, baby. ...
      I challenge you to think
      To use the mouth that you abuse with to create
      Or to disappear with dignity
      Cause you belong with the enemy, the enemy, the enemy
      All you people
      Music people"

    11. Re:Music vs Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It works for all those record company pricks" - Frank Zappa

      Tinseltown Rebellion

      From Madam Wong's to Starwood
      To the Whiskey on the Strip
      You can hear the crashing, blasting strum
      Of bands that come to be real hip
      And get a record contract
      From a talent scout some day
      They'll sell their ass, their cocks and balls
      They'll take the check 'n walk away

      If they're lucky they'll get famous
      For a week or two perhaps
      They'll buy some ugly clothes to wear
      And hope the business don't collapse
      Before some stupid magazine
      Decides they're really good
      They're a Tinseltown Rebellion Band
      From downtown Hollywood

  17. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone who has had to file IP agreements for my employer, I think the biggest problem is rights holders encroaching on other rights holders. By keeping vague language off the signature pages and putting it in exhibits rights holders sometimes try to exert control over IP they have no right to, for the express purpose of broadening their reach and possibly to gain control of IP that was never theirs. As a result, smaller content companies simply refuse to enter into agreements because they can never tell when they are being bamboozled. A simpler system might help with this as well.

  18. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It will *also* open up the door to abuses using the already overworked public defender system, in which everyone who cannot afford a personal law-firm of their own will be told
    "uh yeah the evidence is overwhelming so uh your best bet is to plead guilty, anything else your life is basically over lol"
    as has been rampant across the US.

    It also *further* shifts the burden and costs away from the music industry by having the government - and therefore taxpayers - cover everything; prosecution, defense (in many cases), and the costs of the carceral punishments afterwards. This makes it likely that the music industry is pushing this in conjunction with GEO and/or CoreCivic, backed by quite a few employees/investors of the latter two in the senate.

    Those involved should be dismantled and sold for parts.

  19. RIAA and NMPA bullshit by Tsolias · · Score: 1

    "As website blocking has had a positive impact in other countries without significant unintended consequences, the U.S. should reconsider adding this to its anti-piracy tool box," the RIAA and NMPA write."

    https://www.engadget.com/2017/...

  20. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this Hillary Rodham Clintonâ(TM)s fault? Let us assign blame early on

  21. Re:the constitution will make it hard to block an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    the constitution will make it hard to block an site

    So about that...

    You can debate it forever, but I think we're sitting about like this:

    1st: under assault
    2nd: partially gone, remainder under assault
    3rd: intact
    4th: entirely gone
    5th: mostly intact
    6th: intact
    7th: intact
    8th: partly intact
    9th: entirely gone
    10th: entirely gone

    I'd rate it at about 5 and a half remaining of the original 10. You could argue it up or down a little, but the point is, the BoR cannot be depended on to protect you in the future.

    It's always being chipped away. Exceptions put in place which nowhere appear in the document.

    And it's not even clear "being able to visit internet sites" is a 1st amendment issue to begin with.

  22. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

    Exactly. Then there's the group who might technically even be innocent but enter into a plea bargain because they cannot afford a proper defense.

    The punishment for copyright infringement should be a sensible, reasonable fine. Not a life ruined for sharing a couple of songs. Especially when we're talking people simply using a P2P program, rather than people sharing because they are motivated by profit (large scale sites)

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  23. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately it is the sign of the times. With the options available, we now try to choose the ones that hurt people the most.

    I had a friend get a DMCA take down on a video he posted (about his pet rats) just because he had some music playing in the background. The video wasn't about the music, the quality of the song wasn't great, and it wasn't the full song.

    A just justice system needs to take in account that there can be a lot of laws, and while ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, the context on how and why such law was broken should be factored in. We don't need a binary legal system. With just harsher and harsher sentences for violators, thinking that it will stop a person from committing such a crime if the punishment is bad enough.

     

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  24. Positive for whom? by sjbe · · Score: 2

    "As website blocking has had a positive impact in other countries without significant unintended consequences, the U.S. should reconsider adding this to its anti-piracy tool box," the RIAA and NMPA write.

    Positive impact without unintended consequences FOR THEM I'm sure. Otherwise that statement is the steamiest of wet bullshit.

  25. What I want to see is by oldgraybeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the automatic and complete forfeiture of copyrights to the public domain IF a even a single false infringement take down notice is filed on behalf of a copyright holder.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    1. Re:What I want to see is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add a big fine for the false reporter of an infringement of IP law on top of loss of the IP itself to public domain, an I'll support it.

      Got to preplan for there being arsehole IP trolls out there, don't we?

    2. Re:What I want to see is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they want to make it a felony to stream, then also make it a felony for false reports.

  26. ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As long as it becomes a felony with mandatory jail time for abuse of the DCMA process. I'd love to watch Warner Music be jailed for 90 days.

  27. So Many #FREEDUMBS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at all those #FREEDUMBS you Amerikuks will enjoy in the years to come! LOL. So Free!!

  28. Free Rider Problem by sjbe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Copyright is rent-seeking and harms society as a whole. It should not exist at all.

    Really? You've found a solution to the free rider problem as it applies to creative works? Please publish it and collect your Nobel Prize in Economics immediately because nobody else has found a better solution.

    Copyright needs some serious reform and much shorter protection periods but to claim that it is harmful in general is a claim not supported by the evidence.

    1. Re:Free Rider Problem by tsqr · · Score: 2

      Really? You've found a solution to the free rider problem as it applies to creative works?

      Careful there, friend. There are lots of people here who will be happy to inform you that the free rider problem is not a problem at all, but a birthright.

    2. Re:Free Rider Problem by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      And yet somehow the Fashion Industry survives without copyright

      In school kids are taught to share their toys.
      As adults digital sharing is illegal and (excessively) fined.
      And people wonder why there is cognitive dissonance.

    3. Re: Free Rider Problem by edris90 · · Score: 1

      Free-rider isn't a problem it's an exercise in efficiency.. see a certain amount of our society are Workaholics. Even after they have obtained their needs they can't I'll help but always go back to work harder, ranging from diligent worker to the point of compulsive mental disorder. We also have people who range on the other side of the spectrum , ranging from working just how much they need to to supply their daily habits, 2 not working at all to the point sometimes of compulsive mental disorder. Between the two they average each other out, allowing everyone to do okay. Workaholics tend to be dicks. But they get a lot done. People who don't work as much tend to smile more and have better attitudes, they help to cheer up the Workaholics and remind them how to play, and to cover aspects of society they're not work related to Workaholics have no time to tend to. It takes all types. Some people's contributions are just more in the Limelight than others. but all types are important to keep life balanced

  29. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Taking away people's right to vote and own firearms because of streaming? Wow, talk about overreach. This should get laughed right out of Washington. Problem is, there's enough money behind it that it probably won't.

    In Florida they allow non-violent felons to vote now - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18052374/florida-amendment-4-felon-voting-rights-results

  30. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Umm... That would be a $9.90 fine. You're asking for 1000 times at $990.

    You need to check your numbers. That would only be 10 times on one track. He said a ten times on a hundred tracks so .99 x 10 x 100 and that makes 990.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  31. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by GuB-42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't know about the US specifically but moving minor crimes to a higher court increases the chances of having it dismissed.
    A judge accustomed to murder cases probably doesn't want to be bothered with kids running torrent sites and will probably do their best to get them dismissed ASAP in order to deal with serious affairs.

    In fact, in France, the strategy is the opposite. Instead of pushing for severe punishment, the music industry wants enforcement to work more like parking tickets: a small fine that is usually payed without even an audience.

  32. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by BringsApples · · Score: 1

    If this changes to a felony charge, then I hope my neighbors have a good lawyer. ;)

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
  33. Make website owners Responsible. by sycodon · · Score: 2

    Here's one.

    Ditch the double standard regarding websites.

    If a website exercises editorial control over what its users posts, then it is liable for what they post.

    If a website doesn't exercise editorial control over what its users post, then it is not liable.

    As it stands now, a website can exercise editorial control over what's posted, but when called out on copyrighted material, shrug their shoulders and whine that they can't control what's posted.

    Pick one, then enforce the laws.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Make website owners Responsible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More or less.

      The reason why sites like eBay, Alibaba, and Amazon make money hand-over-fist is because the standard for enforcing copyright and trademarks is low... and I mean, it's so low that counterfeit shit that will burn your house down sits right beside authentic stuff when you search for it.

      To eBay's credit, they are at least willing to take shitty stuff off the site, if reported by the COPYRIGHT HOLDER ONLY. The problem lies in fake reports from people who want to kill off their competition, and hence, people sell obvious copyright-infringement materials on eBay for the sole sake of getting as much money from idiots before the IP holder notices.

      Where the DMCA is deficient is that the lack of "Felony" infringement means that the entire process moves too slowly and generally can not deal with the millions of people who simply do-not-give-a-fuck. But start throwing people in jail, and suddenly your jails are full of people who did nothing more than watch Game of Thrones without paying for the $100 cable package. Like seriously, this is what is wrong with copyright. You're trying to equate a $100 loss to a gun or drug crime. That is absolutely insane.

      Here's how I'd fix it, and it's not as stupid as the film, music, and movie industry. The maximum fine for copyright infringement is the cost of the RETAIL product that would have been paid for, if you simply downloaded it. So if you pirate a CD or Blueray by downloading it off the internet, the most you're on the hook for is maybe $30. That keeps it out of the court. Now, some people are addicted to piracy, and may have downloaded 30 movies a month using a Kodi box. That's about $900/mo or $10,800/yr. Clearly paying for Netflix, Cable and whatever shitty thing the movie industry would rather you rent those movies from is cheaper.

      This is where point #2 comes up. If a product has no retail value (eg you can not buy it at all, because, say it's in the "Disney Vault") then the pirate can not be held liable at all for downloading it. Sure the copyright holder may want to hold back content for some stupid reason, but the more likely thing is that certain titles are only licensed by certain companies and those companies just sit on the IP, while it's available in Europe or Japan or something.

      Uploaders, or basically those with the money and technical knowhow to obtain or rip the pirate content in the first place can still only be held liable for one copy unless there is proof of additional infringement. So if someone on the internet has 10,000 DVD's in their content library and are sharing 5 of them, then that's 5 that they're liable for, not 10,000.

      The intent behind things like the DMCA is to prevent commercial scale infringement, not kiddo was at grandma's place and she didn't have cable so kiddo watched The Lion King from a pirate site. Commercial scale infringement would be profiting from piracy, eg selling pirate copies, private access, or streaming on a for-profit site (eg Youtube, Twitch) in which yes, youtube probably should do more to prevent straight-up commercial scale infringement and de-monetizing videos that are literately nothing but a re-upload of movie, song or tv episode, and should absolutely block those things, and "reaction video" , "nightcore" (pitch/speed shifts), mirrored, cropped versions, while leaving fair use open. If a film has a running time of 2 hours, and it's chopped up into 10 minute pieces, then that's clearly a pirate copy. If a reviewer uses maybe 10 minutes of it, then that's not grounds for removal.

    2. Re: Make website owners Responsible. by houghi · · Score: 1

      As an example, do a seach fot "metallica filetype:torrent" on Google.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Make website owners Responsible. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      If a website exercises editorial control over what its users posts, then it is liable for what they post.

      If a website doesn't exercise editorial control over what its users post, then it is not liable.

      As it stands now, a website can exercise editorial control over what's posted, but when called out on copyrighted material, shrug their shoulders and whine that they can't control what's posted.

      Sadly, your idea is not well thought out.

      You cite the traditional rule for liability for user posts, but that's not the current rule. Those rules were replaced in the mid-late 90's by a statutory rule that allows sites to exercise editorial control without being exposed to liability.

      The reason is simple: Under the traditional rules, sites would either have to 1) Not permit users to post, which basically wastes a lot of the point of the Internet, or 2) Not control what was posted at all, which would lead to them becoming total garbage, like what happened to Usenet. A happy medium was needed, which was allowing sites to control what their users did, but not requiring them to control their users absolutely perfectly lest they be sued for something or other. (The particular issue that arose was that Congress wanted sites to restrict users from posting porn where kids could see it, but needed to give protection to the sites lest they refuse to do anything because of the threat of not having done enough)

      Roughly the same problem appears with copyright, and sites have had roughly similar protection. After all, if a site allows users to post material, it cannot perfectly police the site. It cannot know what is and is not copyrighted and what is and is not lawfully being posted. There is no registry of copyrighted works and there is no registry of people who have the right or who are licensed to use them, and how they can lawfully use them. All a site could possibly do would be to guess, and frankly, it's not their problem and should not be their problem.

      If a particular copyright holder finds an infringement, there is a mechanism for notifying the site to have it removed. If they fail to do so, how can the site know whether this is due to lax enforcement by the copyright holder or whether it is due to permission having affirmatively been granted, or whether the law happens to permit it, as it does sometimes? The copyright holder is in the best position to know and to care, and so it is most appropriate for the burden to fall on them.

      It's basically the cost that comes with the benefits of copyright, and it's no different offline than online.

      Whenever copyright holders want other people to do this sort of thing for them, it's inevitably because either 1) the copyright holder is too lazy to put in the work to vigorously protect the work themselves to the extent that the economic value of the work justifies it, or 2) the copyright holder deliberately would like to destroy the ability of users to post content online.

      Either way, screw that.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    4. Re:Make website owners Responsible. by sycodon · · Score: 1

      It's a mess to be sure.

      But if I were a copyright holder, I'd object to being put in a position where I would have to police the entire internet for my stuff and then go through the process to have it removed.

      At least a single site operator would only have their stuff to go through. So then the question would be, how can the site operator tell what is copyrighted or not. So that seems like a more appropriate area for them to be looking at.

      So...make the site operators responsible, but provide a mechanism that prevents them from having to hire a giant staff to review material.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    5. Re: Make website owners Responsible. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      But if I were a copyright holder, I'd object to being put in a position where I would have to police the entire internet for my stuff and then go through the process to have it removed.

      Sure, no one likes to do work. But if a copyright holder doesnâ(TM)t care enough to try to protect their own rights, why should anyone else care to protect them? And if all the benefit of enforcement of copyright inures to the copyright holder, why should other people have to suffer the cost of carrying out that enforcement?

      Besides, itâ(TM)s not as simple as having a list of works. Copyright includes identical copies and near-identical copies. It includes derivative works like fanfic, sequels, adaptations into other media (e.g. art based on a book, or a play based on a song, etc.). It also includes translations. So you canâ(TM)t simply say, no, there are no copies of Marvin Gayeâ(TM)s song âoeGot to Give It Up.â You have to check for copies of Robin Thickeâ(TM)s âoeBlurred Linesâ because itâ(TM)s got a similar âfeelâ(TM) to the former.

      It is flat-out impossible for a computer to do this. It is incredibly difficult for armies of lawyers going through the courts to do this. So itâ(TM)s incredibly burdensome, but the only person who will want to even do a competent job of looking is the copyright holder. Everyone else views it as a burden and wonâ(TM)t want to try.

      Thereâ(TM)s a reason that litigation involves two sides fighting for themselves, rather than one side having to argue both for and against.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    6. Re:Make website owners Responsible. by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      At least a single site operator would only have their stuff to go through. So then the question would be, how can the site operator tell what is copyrighted or not.

      They literally can't. Suppose you painted a painting. When showing it to your fellow painter friend, he takes a picture and later posts it online without your knowledge (this is infringement). Now the website must inform you.

      Here's what the website knows:
        - No similar photo has been uploaded before
        - This photo does not match any work in the (hypothetical) database of copyrighted works
        - Your friend is a legitimate user who sometimes posts original content

      Here's what the website needs to know to contact you about the infringement:
        - You created the painting in the photo
        - The painting is copyrighted by you*
        - You're not the owner of the account that uploaded the photo
        - The owner of the account did not receive permission from you
        - Your contact info

      * It could be in the public domain or copyrighted by a third party due to contracts you signed with them (who could then have further contracts with a forth party and so on)

      Now please explain, besides Big Brother and God, how anyone could perform what you ask of the website?

    7. Re: Make website owners Responsible. by dcw3 · · Score: 2

      "Sure, no one likes to do work. But if a copyright holder doesnâ(TM)t care enough to try to protect their own rights, why should anyone else care to protect them? "

      That's an asinine position to take. First of all, many copyright holders are individuals, not corporations. Many don't have the time or money to police the internet. Sure, every copyright holder should take reasonable action to protect their copyrights, but your position isn't reasonable.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    8. Re: Make website owners Responsible. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      First of all, many copyright holders are individuals, not corporations. Many don't have the time or money to police the internet. Sure, every copyright holder should take reasonable action to protect their copyrights, but your position isn't reasonable.

      Why should it matter that theyâ(TM)re individuals? Copyright is granted in order to encourage authors to create and publish their work by giving them an economic incentive to do so. But the incentive isnâ(TM)t a straightforward grant of money; itâ(TM)s a chance to funnel whatever people will pay for the work (whether thatâ(TM)s a lot, a little, or nothing at all) to the copyright holder. Itâ(TM)s the copyright holderâ(TM)s problem to popularize the work so that it has value to be funneled. Most works have no copyright-related economic value at all.

      So a copyright is worthless unless youâ(TM)re in business. You donâ(TM)t have to have a company, but you canâ(TM)t just sit back and wait for the world to beat a path to your door to pay you. You have to hustle.

      Watching for infringements that actually harm whatever income stream you can hustle up is part of that. Infringements that donâ(TM)t affect it can be ignored. Such as those that just donâ(TM)t diminish your revenue or are in a market that youâ(TM)re not in. Infringements that do, you probably wonâ(TM)t have trouble finding â" whatever tools an infringerâ(TM)s customers use to find them, you can use to find them too.

      Youâ(TM)re failing to look at things from other perspectives, though. First, with no central registry of copyrighted works (mandating one is actually prohibited by the Berne Convention, the international treaty on copyright that basically every country has signed onto), laws that make virtually everything in the world copyrighted (such as your comment back to me, above), and with the state of AI sorely lacking so that we could have decent automated tools to detect works and infringements (which as noted above is a very hard problem, even for humans, and relies on information that is usually known well to the copyright holder but not to the general public), itâ(TM)s a huge pain in the ass to do this, and itâ(TM)s essentially impossible to do it well. Youâ(TM)re always going to be privileging some copyright holders over others by taking down works that arenâ(TM)t infringing â" probably sacrificing the individuals that are so important to you to benefit corporations â" or youâ(TM)re not going to catch everything (in fact youâ(TM)re not going to make a dent), or more likely, both!

      Second, it is costly and burdensome to do this, prohibitively so. Why should third parties suffer those costs when it doesnâ(TM)t benefit them to do so? You havenâ(TM)t answered the question. Crying about how some copyright holders are mere individuals does not itself justify shifting costs in this way. If they canâ(TM)t afford the costs that come with exploiting their copyrights, they should probably sell or license the rights to someone who can and will shoulder those costs. Itâ(TM)s like being an elderly person who inherits an office building or something; if you canâ(TM)t be an effective landlord, youâ(TM)re wasting the value of the thing. Sell it or hire a management company to operate it for a share of the rent or let it go to hell. But donâ(TM)t go commanding the superintendent of the building next door to maintain it for you for free.

      Copyright holders are in business â" they donâ(TM)t deserve free rides any more than anyone else.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  34. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taking away people's right to vote and own firearms because of streaming? Wow, talk about overreach. This should get laughed right out of Washington. Problem is, there's enough money behind it that it probably won't.

    Taking away people's rights after they have served their time for a felony conviction is the overreach. That's some bullshit, right there.

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  35. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Taking away people's right to vote and own firearms because of streaming? Wow, talk about overreach. This should get laughed right out of Washington. Problem is, there's enough money behind it that it probably won't.

    Does anyone have a clue how this particular felony sentence would compare to - say for instance - finding a lawyer working for the MPAA and beating his head into a nice homogeneous pink pulp?

  36. Re:Destroy the music tyrants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok. I'd rather have a good internet than a good record company, if we have to choose I think the choice is obvious.

    One of those exists and has existed...not sure that there's a choice to be had here.

  37. Tough for an ISP to effectively block sites by fearm0nger · · Score: 2

    There are to many ways to work around a site block that the only people being blocked will be those that wouldn't go there anyway. Piracy was happening long before the internet was even a thing

  38. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

    Correct. For all intensive purposes Florida is a blue state from here on out, due to the large number of minorities and hence Democratic voters in the prison population.

    As if it's a mystery as to why those minorities don't generally vote for Republicans. And the phrase is "for all intents and purposes".

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  39. Yea... Not going to happen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh hey, MPAA and RIAA: For ideas like this, you can suck my dick.

  40. Why do they want this. Aint going to work by DarkRookie2 · · Score: 1

    I do not see why they continue to try this.
    It is so easy to get around blocks.
    TPB still hasn't died.

    --
    http://progressquest.com/spoltog.php?name=Son+Of+Son+Of+DarkRookie
  41. Re: the constitution will make it hard to block an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Agree with you on most of the amendments... 5th is waaay down, for the count. A twisted torturous tangle of cases and opinions mean you as a citizen need a 5 page flow chart just to navigate your rights under the 5th.... Most likely you will trip up and then you are done.... But not for anything you did or didn't do.... Fuckers. Kill all the lawyers...

  42. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correct. For all intensive purposes Florida is a blue state from here on out, due to the large number of minorities and hence Democratic voters in the prison population.

    What about the purposes that aren't intensive?
    How do you categorize an "intensive" purpose?

  43. Net Neutrality by NetNed · · Score: 2

    Net neutrality got squashed which would have led to them doing this exact think so now they want to act like this is somehow in the constitution to protect their "content".

  44. Re:the constitution will make it hard to block an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the constitution will make it hard to block an site as that is an 1st issue

    New troll here!

  45. These record profits are killing us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please save us!

  46. remember your have the right to jury trial by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    remember your have the right to jury trial in an felony case.

    1. Re:remember your have the right to jury trial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sorta. The Supreme Congress has decreed that you only get a jury
      for sentences over 6 months (you know I mean the Supreme Court, right?
      The one's who are supposed to interpret the law, not alter the Constitution).
      So your life can be greatly altered for the worse and you'll have no day
      in court in front of a jury of your peers to nullify an unjust law.

       

  47. Conflicts with 5th/14th Amendment in the US by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

    What the authors of the website-blocking approach conveniently neglect to mention is that other countries do not possess the 5th/14th amendment protection that government cannot deprive any person of "life, liberty, or property" without due process of law. Website-blocking violates these amendments, which is why the public at large objected to SOPA and PIPA in the first place.

    Attempts to criminalize copyright infringement by proposing felony penalties have never succeeded because copyright infringement is a civil offense not a criminal one. There's a fine line between them, and not every foreign country recognizes that.

    The authors have banked on the short term memory of the public, but they have sadly made a bad gamble.

    --
    Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    1. Re:Conflicts with 5th/14th Amendment in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone with points should mod this up. The only thing I don't entirely agree with is "the short term memory of the public". The word needs to get out on this better. The public's memory is short term and they need reminded that it's important to watch over these organizations.

    2. Re:Conflicts with 5th/14th Amendment in the US by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      Attempts to criminalize copyright infringement by proposing felony penalties have never succeeded because copyright infringement is a civil offense not a criminal one.

      Consider a felony conviction will also result no longer able to vote. Another method of voter suppression brought on by "liberal Hollywood?"

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    3. Re:Conflicts with 5th/14th Amendment in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider a felony conviction will also result no longer able to vote. Another method of voter suppression brought on by "liberal Hollywood?"

      "Progressives" are usually everything they accuse others of being: racist, sexist, bigoted, intolerant, unwelcoming, nasty.

  48. but will comcast send an tech to court that can sa by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    but will Comcast send an tech to court that can say beyond a reasonable doubt that IP = that user?
    and when crossed examined be able to explain why they can do that but can't get the cap meter right
    If your system can show that IP = that user then why does also show that users to have used there internet on a day that they had no power and there modem was off?

    You just have to point to cases in where the ISP systems where off to make the reasonable doubt part kill the case.
    http://www.dslreports.com/show...
    https://arstechnica.com/inform...
    https://arstechnica.com/inform...

  49. Music "Industry"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lets call a spade a spade here....these 'industry' people we speak of are nothing more than leeches or parasites on the music artists, and frankly artists would be better off if they just set up a website and sold their stuff themselves online, and negotiated streaming deals with content providers themselves. Seriously.

    Remove the blood-sucking parasites from the system.

    1. Re: Music "Industry"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait lame-stream still has artists?

      Hot new single for 2019:

      "Baby baby I love you baby baby I want to get with you baby baby you make me feel right baby baby baby....."

      Just keep rearranging the lyrics a bit, and add in another lame instrumental track (if it can still be called that), and you can burp out 'song' after 'song' , and rake in the big dough for the whole year!

  50. So who sucks the most dicks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The United States government, or the EU? Anybody want to place bets?

  51. It's a kind of self harm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, the RIAA and friends are an enemy to art.
    I live in a country with 400 movies on Netflix. I moved from a country where censorship started off with porn and moved onto a way to try to get more money out of people.
    It's so messy I mostly don't watch movies or music anymore. It's just a lot easier that way.
    Why can't rights holders see that and just shut up and take my money?

  52. So we're blocking YouTube then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That has basically every song, and they can easily be downloaded.

  53. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by mfinn999 · · Score: 1

    When that purpose is intense, man!

  54. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

    Yes, heaven forbid that the Republicans might have to rethink their platform and direction. That would be flip-flopping!

    A Republican leaning police force and justice system would never, ever frame someone with a felony, for voting Democrat. Would they?

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  55. Re:the constitution will make it hard to block an by atrex · · Score: 1

    It didn't stop them from implementing FOSTA-SESTA. They've got their loophole: the government doesn't censor the site directly, they make the ISPs liable if they don't censor it for them.

  56. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The likelyhood of this passing is roughly proportional to how wide politicians are willing to spread their butt cheeks which is equal to how big a bribe they get.

  57. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also, buying legal weed - prevents you from exercising your 2md amendment right.

    I'm talkin' U.S.ofA. here....

  58. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by edris90 · · Score: 1

    Music industry business model is just not supported by reality, and opposed by the majority of people in practice, if not by words. Piracy being rampid is a direct demostration that the people do not support the concepts of intellectual property. Businesses are not people. I be owned by people but unlike a person it's okay for any business to go out of business while it is not okay for us to just let people die.

  59. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My sentator was a sponsor of the bill that would do this. I wrote to her. Here's the reply.

    Thank you for contacting me about S. 978, the Commercial Felony Streaming Act. I appreciate hearing from you and especially appreciate hearing the concerns you have raised. Please know that we will continue to makes changes to this bill to address your concerns.

    This bill passed through the Senate Judiciary Committee on a bipartisan basis without objection. The bill is designed to go after online thieves who steal other people's works, like books, commercial music, and movies, including foreign piracy. It only covers commercial theft, not people posting their personal work on the web, such as YouTube videos or videos of people singing or lip-synching. As the Department of Justice has noted, this legislation "does not criminalize conduct that is not already criminal." It simply changes the classification of the most egregious commercial thefts which are already considered criminal misdemeanors under the law.

    As Congress continues to debate the larger issue of piracy, we must always balance concerns about how to protect people from online piracy, particularly from foreign piracy, without limiting web-based innovation or a free exchange of ideas. I welcome your thoughts on these important issues and have encouraged my colleagues who are leading the larger bills to listen to them as well.

    Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. One of the most important parts of my job is listening to what the people of Minnesota have to say to me. I am here in our nation's capital to do the public's business and to serve the people of our state. I hope you will contact me again about matters of concern to you.

    Sincerely,

    Amy Klobuchar

    United States Senator

    This is far from getting laughed out of washington.

  60. Stream a movie go to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah a felony is commensurate with the societal harm caused by file streaming. Maybe we can let a few murderers and rapists out to make room. Bunch of greedy jackasses. No more. I'm not buyin' anymore movies or music until the industry reverts to the artists. This cartel is out of hand.

  61. More Whack-A-Mole by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Pirate sites will just change hosting providers when they're blocked, just like they do now. Or they'll move to the Dark Web where it's almost impossible to find them anyway. Meanwhile the fucktard music industry (and whoever else would pile on) will leave a trail of broken, blocked hosting providers behind them.

    Just GIVE UP, RIAA/MPAA; why can't you see that what you're trying to do is impossible in the long run? You could kill the entire Internet, and people will go back to SneakerNet. You couldn't kill off mixtapes/mix CDs, you won't kill this off either. All you're doing is wasting your time, money, and energy, and meanwhile pissing off the people you're NOT trying to go after.

  62. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does anyone have a clue how this particular felony sentence would compare to - say for instance - finding a lawyer working for the MPAA and beating his head into a nice homogeneous pink pulp?
    one makes you have respect in prison the other someones bitch

  63. Re:but will comcast send an tech to court that can by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    The big problem is that, if the music industry gets to write the laws, they'll make it so "we see this IP address" is proof enough of "it was you who uploaded those songs." Having an open router, a hacked computer, or simply a roommate won't be a defense if the RIAA/MPAA get their say.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  64. Because congress are old n_iggers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because congress are old n_iggers, and the labels employ a lot of old useless shitty sounding old n_iggers that congress likes.

  65. Those people need to vote too! by bussdriver · · Score: 2

    We should have PSAs run showing Nazi, pedophiles, etc. saying to the camera "I'm voting!."

    If you are a nation of bad people, then the government should reflect their choice. The government represents it's people... Yes, Trump is America. The darker side of it you don't want to admit exists but that is just hiding from the truth. Dictators are also; just not by direct consent.

    "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
    -Frederick Douglas

  66. Boycott Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't like this kind of crap?
    Then don't go to any more moves.

    Go out to a play, or go see a local musician.

  67. Sharing is not the same as copying by sjbe · · Score: 1

    And yet somehow the Fashion Industry survives without copyright

    The fashion industry absolutely does use copyright. Clothing is generally specifically excluded from copyright protection as a functional item but it does apply sometimes when the design rises to the level of a creative work. Sometimes it can benefit from design patents or trademarks as well. Furthermore you are comparing apples to oranges. Replicating an article of clothing has a substantial cost, especially at scale. Perhaps you have never seen how clothing is made but it is a laborious process and requires substantial amounts of specialized equipment, fabrics, chemicals, and skilled labor. Replicating written words costs far less and replicating written words digitally is inexpensive as to be approximately zero. Tangible objects generally aren't subject to copyright because the cost to replicate them makes copyright largely irrelevant. Copyright is for protecting intangible works. It isn't the book that is protected by copyright, it is the words in the book that are protected. I can produce a book that is physically identical to The Hobbit just so long as it doesn't have the same words printed in the same order in it.

    In school kids are taught to share their toys.

    Which is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Sharing is for things you cannot copy. If you copy it by definition you aren't sharing it. Sharing means you give someone something and deprive yourself voluntarily of it (in part or in whole) for a time. You can say you are sharing an idea but what you really are doing is providing a copy of the idea.

    As adults digital sharing is illegal and (excessively) fined.

    It's not sharing. It's copying. And copying WITHOUT PERMISSION is what is prohibited because of the free rider problem. You can go ahead and get permission and then you can copy it all you like. Without such protection, a lot of creative works will never get made because it's FAR cheaper to copy someone else's idea than it is to come up with it yourself. Only someone very naive will think that economics plays no role in the creation of artistic works.

    1. Re:Sharing is not the same as copying by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      The only part of the clothing industry that involves IP at all is Trademark, not copyright. That why designers slap their logo on their designs because no one can copy their design if it includes the logo. Take the logo off and it's not protected.

      So people buy legal knockoffs all the time, where it's a MIC purse instead of an MK purse where the MIC kinda looks like a MK. Totally legal, though designers sometimes scream about it.

      The free rider 'problem' is not a problem. The fashion industry does fine because some people want 'original' designs by specific designers, not knockoffs, and will pay for the privilege. Often the better, designer items are made of better materials or with better workmanship. So people pay extra for them.

      The purpose of copyright to to promote innovation and creation. Anyone who has an internet connection can find millions if not hundred of millions of free novels, songs, art or all types posted on line. Given away by the creators. There is also stuff for sale, which people actually buy, without onerous DRM.

      All existing copyright does is benefit parasites and mediocre artist who pass the parasite gatekeepers.

      Best example I can think of. The Martian was first posted for free. Later the author posted it on Amazon for a dine, because that was as little as he was allowed to. It became a best seller and many people who had read it for free paid the dime for it and the higher price for the paper published version or ebook.

      They did this because it was good and they wanted to support the author. No one had to hold a gun to their head to do it and the creator created it because he was interested in the subject, with no expectation, I'm sure that it would someday make him a millionaire.

      Copyright to spark creativity is obsolete. It is unnecessary. Its purpose is suppose to be to increase the public domain, instead it has been subverted to make individuals, many of whom are not creators, rich.

    2. Re:Sharing is not the same as copying by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      So people buy legal knockoffs all the time, where it's a MIC purse instead of an MK purse where the MIC kinda looks like a MK. Totally legal, though designers sometimes scream about it.

      But they're still buying a PHYSICAL item. You're comparing the copying of a digital work to mimicing a physical item. What you're thinking of is more akin to the mockbuster, a knock-off that is similar to an original work, enough that someone not-too-discerning might confused it with the original work. Under copyright law, a mockbuster is legal. Imitation is legal.

      But even if the person is buying an imitation purse, they're still purchasing a physical product. Copying a movie, there is no purchase there.

      Its purpose is suppose to be to increase the public domain, instead it has been subverted to make individuals, many of whom are not creators, rich.

      I've got no problems with copyright making the creators, or whomever they sold the rights to, rich. I just don't think it should be for a long time period as the current system allows. The reason for copyright as given in the Constitution is valid: copyright incentivizes content creation. I don't think there's any controversy over that statement (god dammit, there'd better not be), the problem has really come from the transition of copyright from a tool to increase the public domain, to a tool that turns content into permanent property. I don't think the goal should be to get rid of copyright; hell, even the current system is better than that. But it should be reformed to reflect its original purpose.

  68. Opinions != facts by sjbe · · Score: 2

    There are lots of people here who will be happy to inform you that the free rider problem is not a problem at all, but a birthright.

    A lot of people think a lot of very stupid things. Having an opinion doesn't mean it is objectively correct. A lot of people think crystals have magical healing powers. Doesn't mean I should take them seriously without evidence.

  69. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by houghi · · Score: 1

    The fact that you loose these rights is a whole different discussion and gies againt: no taxation without representation.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  70. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

    It's many times worse than peopel 'accidentally' downloading. I run torrent to do things like download LibraOffice and Linux distributions. From time to time I get a violation notice from my ISP. Once they even cut me off and I had to call them.

    Someone claimed that they had proof I had downloaded specific files, porn files, at specific times. Luckily I log my traffic. When I called the ISP their first answer was I shouldn't be running Torrent software, which I use for legitimate purposes. Their next was for me to directly contact the shills who claimed I had infringed. They were a company whom I know have a history of instituting lawsuits against innocent people and then leveraging $5000 or so from them to go away, as opposed to spending tens of thousands in court opposing them. They send out thousands of infringement notices without proof hoping to get a couple of hundred fools stupid enough to contact them directly.

    When I told the ISP I had logs of my traffic and that I would be dealing with them over this, not some random IP troll they decided to turn me back on.

    No blocking of access should even be considered until the IP owner can prove a violation has occurred. That means tying it to a specific individual, not IP address or MAC access. If they can't do that tough.

    Meanwhile these IP trolls should have to pay fines for every false claim they make.

  71. They wouldn't like it if we went too far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The entertainment industry wants laws to ensure their profits, no matter the consequences to the general public.

    It could be argued that for the damage they cause to the rights and freedoms of the people, executing entertainment executives would be for the greater good. I'm certain beyond a doubt that it would help more people than it would hurt. But it would be wrong.

    The difference between the two sides is, most of the general public can see that that would be going too far, and is not acceptable behavior. While the industry fat cats either can't see that they go too far, or more likely, just don't give a flying fuck about the people beyond emptying their pockets. Trampling the rights of the people is deemed okay because it makes them lots of money.

  72. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Third parties should NOT be trying to police copyright infringements! It should be the sole responsibility of copyfight holders themselves. Anything else is shifting the cost as well as the responsibility away from the ones who make the money off the copyrighted works!

  73. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

    The danger here would be to establish a precedence.

    --
    I tend to rant.
  74. Bad Idea, Implement Better Solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US Gov't is not a "tool" for the music industry. In many cases, their practices have broadene piracy. It's up to them to fix their business models and anything else that is obviously not working. It's otherwise an extremely dangerous idea to have the US Gov't involved in censoring -- all sorts of Constitutional issues there.

    The world is changing, the larger Music Industry is going to have to wake up and evolve or die to independent distributors.

  75. Re:but will comcast send an tech to court that can by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    In an criminal jury trial you need to prove that evidence is linked to an person and not just an account. And what are going to do fill up jails with people waiting years for the back log of cases to work thought the system. Hell most cops look the other way on small possession pot as the system will get very over loaded if they booked people on it.

    I don't think that can make so that some can get an felony photo ticket to an rent a car user with out them being able to question the people who give the court that info.

    Also that FBI / bestbuy case with Mark Rettenmaier was dropped before they even got to court so that evidence was not tested in court.

  76. Re:the constitution will make it hard to block an by MooseTick · · Score: 1

    "2nd: partially gone, remainder under assault"

    Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Without the framers defining "Arms", this will always be under attack. Does that include any and all weapons? Can people own nukes? Should we be able to buy hand grenades at Wal-Mart? Can I "keep" claymores in my front yard in an effort to keep "the security of a free State"?

    This also doesn't say anything about background checks, restrictions on minors and/or felons, and any other limitations around said "Arms".

  77. Totally Unwanted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After Republicans have been banned, blocked, and deleted across the social websites, now they want blanket powers to close down independent websites Not connected to facebook, youtube, twitter, etc ?!?

    NO.

    How about we protect websites instead of forcing censorship n people ?

  78. Re: The felony part will change stuff from civil t by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    You'll get no argument from me that people who serve their time for non-violent felonies should have their voting rights restored instantly. I might even be able to be convinced for violent felonies as well, but we could take the "easy win" of restoring voting rights to people convicted of non-violent felonies after they've served their time.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  79. Re: but will comcast send an tech to court that ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your English has gotten a lot better. Good on you.

  80. No, you want to leave it untaxed by Solandri · · Score: 1

    But you also don't want any government assistance in its enforcement (outside of courts hearing cases). You want it completely free of any outside influence on its economics.

    The basic premise behind IP is that the value created by the temporary monopoly exceeds the cost to society of that monopoly. Since the value is given to the IP holder, that gives us a perfect benchmark against which to measure the costs of enforcing that IP. If the IP holder cannot afford to enforce its IP rights, that is a clear indication that enforcing IP costs more than the value it creates. And thus constitutes mathematical proof that IP is no longer useful, and should be abolished.

    What the IP holders are trying to do is externalize the cost of enforcing their IP rights. First they wanted ISPs to bear the cost. Now they want the U.S. government to bear the cost. Taxing them gives them the wiggle room to claim the government should enforce IP rights for them. That spreads the cost/benefit analysis across two different entities, muddying the calculation of whether or not IP is worth keeping around.

  81. Re:The felony part will change stuff from civil to by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

    It is correct and appropriate for people to lose some civil rights after being convicted of a felony. They have proven they can not play nicely with others, and the adults are taking away their toys. The only reason it's even an issue is that overwhelmingly criminals are Democrats. There are very few Republicans in prison.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  82. When your business model is going down the tubes.. by sharkbiter · · Score: 1

    Find a big target and litigate. Lose that case and have it reopened at a higher level. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    Find another target and litigate. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    Find a backer for a cash injection, find another target and litigate. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    Find another backer for another cash injection. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    Hopefully, after much litigation, the result will be that they go out of business permanently.

    Just think of the wonderful people behind all those SCO lawsuits and how they tenaciously pursued their "Intellectual Property".

  83. But it does say "well-regulated" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So cry me a river....

  84. Fix streaming first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's start with fixing streaming. First of all, it's a fraction of a penny per stream. That has to go up. Then it should be equal pay per stream, not the more plays you get, the more pay per stream. Third, streaming revenue that spotify gets from ads of music by INDEPENDENT musicians should not end up in pockets of major labels. They should go directly to the independent musicians!

  85. Music industry why VPNs exist. by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    Shrug. Sure, music industry. Give it a whirl. You'll stop nothing. There's always another solution, even if it means a new internet.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  86. Morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There are several changes that should be made legislatively to help legal authorities and third parties better protect intellectual property rights," the music groups write. "These include fixing the DMCA, making it a felony to knowingly engage in unauthorized streaming of copyrighted works, and investigating the positive impact that website blocking of foreign sites has in other jurisdictions and whether U.S. law should be revised accordingly."

    It's official. The RIAA and MPAA have adopted the SCO business plan: sue, sue, sue.

  87. How about none of the above by Shaitan · · Score: 1

    While we are at it, why don't we go ahead and repeal the DMCA, citizens united, drop software patents, and set the copyright term back to 20 years with no extensions.

    You know, actually move in the direction of fixing things instead of further in the wrong direction?

  88. Re:but will comcast send an tech to court that can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the old mens rea standard, that was true. What we're more likely to end up with here is strict liability where if it's your account, your equipment, or anything you've ever breathed on used to infringe, you're guilty.

  89. Re:the constitution will make it hard to block an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are levels. Since Congress has authority to issue "letters of marque and reprisal" under article 1, section 8 of the US Constitution, we can safely assume that the founders understood that "armed ships with cannons" were something a private entity might own, and thus *easily* extrapolate back to "small arms that shoot bullets at *any* speed" be included.

    Indeed, pretty much anything that's "aimed" by mechanical means would probably qualify easily enough, but I'll generously stop at "small arms and light weapons", and take my rocket launchers, grenades, and submachine guns.

    This is not, however, the answer you're hoping for.