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Apple Hit With Class Action Suit Over Lack of Dust Filters In Macbook, iMac (9to5mac.com)
AmiMoJo shares a report from 9to5Mac: Apple is facing a new class action lawsuit claiming that it sells select iMac and MacBook models without needed dust filters. In turn, this causes issues such as display imprecations, slowing performance, and more, the lawsuit alleges. The iMac and MacBook lawsuit is being brought forward by law firm Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro, which is a class action litigation firm that has gone after Apple before. Most notably, the firm won the infamous $450 million ebooks pricing case against Apple. Since then, Hagens Berman has levied other suits at Apple, including one regarding the performance throttling of iPhones. Hagens Berman's latest lawsuit reads in part: "iMac and MacBook owners have reported dark smudges and spots on the interior of the screens of their desktop computers as well as excessive slowness and break downs of their computers related to the lack of filter on Apple computers. The computer intakes air to cool its components, but with no filter, dust gets trapped inside. This affects the screen and logic board of the computer, leading to dust stuck behind the screen and gummed up motherboards, causing the computer to run slow and/or overheat."
Hagens Berman says "Apple refuses to remedy the defect," instead forcing affected customers to pay "more than $500 to fix this screen defect, and even more if they wish to replace parts integral to the computer's sped and performance." "We believe Apple owes it to the purchasers of these premium, high-end computers to pay for the widespread defect, and we seek to represent iMac owners to recover their losses in costs to repair this defect, or for their loss of use of their computer."
Hagens Berman says "Apple refuses to remedy the defect," instead forcing affected customers to pay "more than $500 to fix this screen defect, and even more if they wish to replace parts integral to the computer's sped and performance." "We believe Apple owes it to the purchasers of these premium, high-end computers to pay for the widespread defect, and we seek to represent iMac owners to recover their losses in costs to repair this defect, or for their loss of use of their computer."
I don't believe any of the laptops, tablets or even desktops I've ever owned have come with filter systems on the intakes.
"...display imprecations"?
All news is by definition, recent history.
Our users realize that these are consumer products and, like a toaster, if it breaks they should just buy a new one be a good consumer and, stop complaining.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Shit man, I didn't realize my mac was lined with gold. Thanks for the tip.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
And I bet those particular models are bigger ones.
The better quality the filter is, the larger surface area it needs to have. Even a coarse mesh needs an increased surface compared to a plain opening.
The intake can't be placed on the bottom. That leaves the thin edges, as currently done, or on top around the keyboard.
Or back-off on the heating/clock-speed.
It's OK, Apple will pass the cost on to the consumer (including the legal fees to defend), just like the car companies markup and pass on the cost for all the safety features they are forced by law to install.
Seriously though, this is freaking frivolous. I will not feel vindicated if Apple loses this, just more affirmed that if I start a company that makes a widget, it will end with more lawyers than widget makers before I sell it.
Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform
No airbags on Macs? Sue, sue, sue. A kitty watching a bird video might bonk its furry head against the screen. Won't somebody think of the kitties?
Thanks for the design help, guys. 'Coz us engineers have no idea how to design computers.
If you win, Apple will design out the problem of dust.. No ports, memory card slots, or ventilation. Everything will throttle to sub GHz speeds, and all wireless connections and battery charging. Sounds great until you see the resulting product also does not have a physical keyboard.
Obviously a complaint from someone with no experience on the matter. I work for a large electronics company. We used to sell equipment with filters for tha fans. Guess what? They plug up faster and cause the equipment to fail sooner than if it was there or not.
Doesn't matter that they were serviceable/replaceable. Doesn't matter we talked about it in the manual. That's just the way it is.
I can't tell if you're stupid or just willfully ignorant. The same hardware can either be efficient, cool, and quiet or just run faster and get a lot more performance at the cost of heat. In more recent CPUs, they do BOTH. No amount of efficiency gains would be wasted on keeping the CPU cooler unless the higher performance is never needed.
Let's suppose for a moment that Apple includes an air filter in the laptops. Understand that we're not talking about a grill, a grill doesn't do much to stop dust. It would have to be an air filter.
To produce an air filter to block particulates from entering the laptop, the filter would itself gather the particulates. This would require making the filter itself able to be cleaned. For this it would require some form of removable grill. A removable grill will require either screw holes or some sort of novel slide and release mechanism to be machined or molded from similar materials as the laptop body.
The addition of said air filter will be of limited value if the filter can't allow air passage as well as block particulates. This means that there would have to be somewhat considerable surface area, low density, greater size, and/or a high power fan to assist with airflow as well as a corresponding power source to compensate for the additional draw.
To make an effective air filter will add additional cost, weight, etc...
The alternative is to facilitate effective use of compressed air through a directed nozzle.
If there's an airflow path for cooling within the laptop that allows air to pass through in the first place, this is the path dust is following to clog the system. Therefore a high power burst of air in the reverse direction will be suitable to remove or somewhat release the particles and eject what would likely be a suitable amount from the chassis or bury in places of less importance.
I believe if Apple loses this case, they should simply ship users a free can of compressed air with the correct nozzle for maximum effectiveness and future models should make it clear that compressed air is a suggested accessory on the side of the box.
I think the air filter would be a generally unwelcome addition to the system.
I also think that Apple needs to identify a means of suing this law firm for targeted frivolous law suits that don't actually represent the interests of the consumers but instead target companies who they believe they can exploit for large settlements.
If Apple asks me, I will participate in a class action suit against this law firm for intentionally misrepresenting me and driving up the costs of products I depend on through frivolous litigation "on my behalf".
Apple was refusing to replace batteries. Users, including myself, brought in phones that lasted 4 hours max and were told the batteries were "fine." Massive suits against Apple, threatening to expose their internal communications, forced Apple to offer battery replacements to anyone that wanted them, in return for the suits being dropped.
Also the battery shit show happened immediately upon installing iOS 11.0 while all the betas exhibited no such behavior.
Cook thought they could get away with it. They were wrong. Now Apple sales are plummeting because everyone just got new batteries instead of new phones.
Yes they can definitely help. You decide the compromise between better filtration, reduced airflow, and increasing the inlet size or ambient environment.
A more effective filter will reduce the amount of dust that gets in, but it will also reduce the amount of air. You can either monitor your temps with an applet, or just pay attention if you hear the fans spin up on high.
My computer is tucked into an opening in my desk, such that the airflow into the case and out of it isn't ideal. If I had thick, low-micron air filters, I'd probably move it out of the little cubbie so it would get better airflow.
If you add filters, it's probably a good idea to set a recurring calendar appointment every six months to quickly clean or replace the filters. Good filters capture dust - which will eventually clog them up if you go six years without cleaning the filters.
Now Apple sales are plummeting
Apple's 3rd quarter revenues were up 17% over a year earlier. Profits were up 40%.
3rd Quarter results
The firm name has a musical something to it... I envision it as a chorus for a catchy song.
Sorry for being offtopic, it's just that I can't get it out of my head.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
I suspect all this fiddling with the keyboard to make it ultra-thin, ultra-low movement is all about smoothing the transition to a fully haptic keyboard. This would allow Ives to make the MacBook slightly thinner again, and possibly it could be a second screen (Apple recently filed a patent for this concept).
I don't know what the point of this would be, but I guess they need to keep 'innovating'. In my view, anyone who just wants to consume media is already using a tablet, and now that Apple has accepted stylus input as not an affront to Jobs' legacy, that opens up tablets for many more low-intensity data creation scenarios. The remaining customers who need to enter large amounts of text ultimately want a machine that does that well. And critical to that is having a decent keyboard. So why you would want to compromise what was once an decent keyboard any further on a machine that is only really required by people who have a lot of text to enter is beyond me.
We need another Steve. Tim Cook seems rudderless product wise, and business wise seems to be trying to turn Apple into an LVMH brand. Ives seems to just be on 'thinner and remove ports' autopilot and it is getting ridiculous. I get that a portless-buttonless flat piece of glass might have some kind of intellectual purity, but that doesn't make it a nice product to use. There are plenty of beautiful post-modern architectural masterpieces that I would not like to live inside.
Frakkin' Cylons!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
First, the screen is a separate, sealed unit. There should be (and AFAIK is) no open connection between the air ducts and the screen.
Second, WTF do you want a filter? The air ducts suck in air, blow it over a heat exchanger and back out again. Who cares if there's dust in the air? It will generally just blow right back out.
A filter is just going to clog up and cause the machine to overheat. And joe-average user will never clean the damned thing.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Like most electronics with intake fans, such as games consoles and PC's, it's a good idea to crack them open and clean the dust out every 1000 ish hrs of operation, or when the fans become noisier than they should.
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
In turn, this causes issues such as display imprecations, slowing performance, and more, the lawsuit alleges.
The screen curses you? Awesome!
I just pulled a tissue from my box of generic tissues and found it was made up of three layers. Carefully peeling off one layer and trying to breathe through it, I was surprised it didn't restrict airflow as much as I expected. Paper tissues were originally made to be filters in chemical weapons masks, so that just might work. I wonder if it would break down over time and become particles that get sucked into the case.
Manufacturers typically use a thin sheet of open cell foam. I don't have any specific brand. I'm sure Amazon sells them cheap.
Another thought about filtration - it depends on the particle size you're trying to filter out. A piece of window screen will block pet hair. To filter out cigarette smoke requires a filter with far smaller holes, because smoke has very small particles.
Apple devices are designed to go "vintage"
I just helped my elderly brother with his older core 2 duo iMac. Can't run chrome at all and Safari won't bring up many sites because it only supports TLS1.0. The OS cannot be upgraded past 10.6.3. Firefox seems to work barely, but this computer is essentially unusable for basic home computer tasks.
All because Apple won't allow a newer OS to be installed. You could run Linux on a computer 25 years old.The latest Windows 10 runs OK on core 2 duo era computers.
As a former fanboy, I have piles of Apple products that are prematurely made useless by corporate choice.
Greed is the root of all evil.
Animal people are usually in denial about how nasty their house is. Sure, they need special vacuum cleaners and their laptops overheat from getting clogged up with the same stuff they breath. Sure, you can smell animals when you walk in. But it's the crappy laptop, or the crappy vacuum cleaner's fault.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
And this 500 dollar "repair" is a little silly. On an iMac, you simply attach suction cups to the glass, and pop the glass off. Give the glass a nice cleaning (I like Everclear or 91 percent Isopropal, and pop it back into place. I never thought about it, because it is just the sort of thing you do for someone as a freebee.
For the bored: http://bored-bored.com/pc-whic... No imacs though.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So people with Apple products aren't allowed to have animals? Just because those environments don't suit you snowflake, it doesn't mean that they aren't within the range of cleanliness of the average home that a laptop may need to work in.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
It's not just Apple products. Every laptop, desktop, vacuum cleaner, or any device that moves air gets caked with pet hair and dander. It's fine to live that way - our immune systems are more than up to it and it may even be better for us to live in some degree of filth. But don't fucking sue to make all products bigger and heavier just because you choose to have a "fur baby". Vacuum cleaners are now being sold as "pet" specific, so maybe there is a niche for other products as well?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
The high $$$ PC class machines, like toughbooks and industrial systems, are engineered to be highly resistant to dust infiltration.
I don't think longevity is a design goal for consumer status symbols, though. :)
So people with Apple products aren't allowed to have animals? Just because those environments don't suit you snowflake, it doesn't mean that they aren't within the range of cleanliness of the average home that a laptop may need to work in.
I don't know what environment these "victims" are living-in; but I live in a 100 year old house, with carpet, a dog and a cat, and one cigarette smoker. The exposed furniture surfaces grow a nice patina of dust in just a few days. IOW, the direct antithesis of a "Clean Room".
I have had Apple equipment since there was Apple equipment, including my daily-driver laptop, a mid-2012 non-retina MacBook Pro. My G5 tower, which had that cheese-grater front, multiple fans, and NO FILTER, has run 24/7/365.25 since April, 2005.
Not ONE of ANY of my Apple equipment, past or present, has had ANY problems whatsoever; let alone any that I would attribute to overheating or dust/airflow issues.
I love Imprecation, but that's probably not what you mean.
Oh well. Bummer.
Alternative Right.
No, every other device works fine. Literally it is pretty much just Apple. Why should products not be made to suit the average person? It sounds like you are the one with special requirements. You want it so then it has to be used in a clean room.
They already ARE made to suit the average filthy household, and I have about 40 years of Apple-product-ownership to prove it!
https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
I have a 2016 macbook pro. My house is fairly clean and 1.5 years in the keyboard was crap. Keys were sticking and repeating and making a sound like walking on a soda coated theater room floor. If you think it's not a problem, Google on it, many people are complaining about it and I believe there is a lawsuit for it as well. Fortunately I had Applecare and they replaced the entire bottom half of my laptop. I blow it off now every time I use it but I don't believe I should have to baby a device this way as a condition of use. Because I have pets I am afraid the laptop will become unusable again shortly after my Applecare ends.
Don't get me started on the USB-C ports. They became so loose after that 1.5 years my power cable would fall out simply from moving the laptop around. Everyone told me 'oh you just got a faulty device' but now after the replacement it is happening again.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
In fact now that I think about it, you may have been one of the ones that told me it was just a faulty device. Now I'm here to tell you that you were wrong.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I just want my Mac to be as good as my Thinkpad.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Apple EOL'ed the 6S+ about 8 months after they shipped the last new one. They didn't get iOS 8.whatever that had the slowdown baked in.
You're an idiot.
EVERY iPhone back to the 5s can receive every iOS version up to and including the most recent version of iOS 12.
I'm referring to fans. Yes, cooling is needed, but not with fans. No go back to your cave Sheldon.
Sure! Just tell me where on your laptop that you want the fpt connector for the WATER HOSE, instead.
Maybe they can fix the GPU overheating and physically separating from its circuit boards? Customers shouldn't have to choose between replacing the entire computer and baking their graphics card at 200 degrees C for 8 min.
Ugh.
And people wonder why Apple ditched nVidia...
In fact now that I think about it, you may have been one of the ones that told me it was just a faulty device. Now I'm here to tell you that you were wrong.
If I did, it was before I did any research.
What's YOUR excuse?
How about oil filters?
If the 2015 MacBook had oil filters, it wouldn't have gotten into my screen.
Yeah, I'm not making this up. It was on the floor of my trunk while I was packing, and the oil jug I put in the trunk before a road trip fell over, and turned out to have a hole.
It's *really* weird to have 5W20 synthetic slowly oozing out of your screen . . .
hawk
You get all snarky about me not cleaning out my USB-C ports and then claim it is a common problem with USB-C. Yes that is Apple's fault; because they should stand by the quality of their devices and they made the design decision to use only USB-C.
There isn't lint in my USB-C ports, and even if there were, expensive hardware shouldn't be defeated by s piece of lint that's ridiculous. I've had many Thinkpads and never cleaned them and they work fine.
Furthermore, as I explained it isn't just me. Your belligerence is completely unwarranted.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Mods: Parent says something bad about my heroes. FIFY.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
What I'm getting from this is that people are finally getting fed up with Apple.
Apple charges a completely ridiculous amount of money for purportedly best of breed hardware. And yet, especially lately, people are running into one systemic problem after another, and the only way to get them fixed is to fling class action lawsuits at Apple.
Their last several generations of laptops have had the absolute worst keyboard made in recent history.
Laptops that cost $3+k but are unrepairable and unupgradable. They are pointlessly thin which causes them to have to make concessions in their designs that a normal manufacturer would never need to make. This ends up limiting performance, and reducing reliability and longevity. But that's again to Apple's benefit because now they get to soak you a second time with exorbitant repair bills.
The most recent versions of OSX have been the least stable I've ever used. I haven't even upgraded to Mojave yet because 10.13 has caused me so many problems that I'm afraid of how much more damage 10.14 is going to cause.
I have enough disposable income that I have no problem dropping a higher than avg amount of cash for a top notch product. But I damn well demand exactly that: a top notch product. Apple used to be my computer mfg of choice because they were overwhelmingly superior to the competition. But starting around 2010, when they started gluing their batteries into the machines, was when they jumped off the cliff and have been falling since.
While the recent update to the mac mini is encouraging, I am treating that a a blip rather than a concerted effort within Apple to crowbar their heads out of their asses. And now the sharks are starting to circle, and I for one am happy to see them do it. Apple desperately needs a big dose of humility.
IMO Apple wouldn't be doing nearly as well right now if, despite how badly they've been screwing up, Microsoft wasn't also screwing up but 10x worse with their management of Windows 10. And I think Apple is fully aware of this.
If you think every other device works fine, you need to pop by my dad's non-Apple home where every damn thing with vents or fans is overheating. The poor laptops never stop running their fans in a vain attempt to breath. Everything I've ever taken apart there was full of dog/cat hair.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I never said an extreme amount of hair *couldn't* cause issues. That would be stupid. What I said was, in my experience if I treat a Thinkpad (primarily, but also any PC I have had) and a Macbook product the same, I am consistently disappointed with the durability of the Macbook. Even if you compare something as innocuous as the power cord. I have been through two already for the Macbook but can't say I have ever broken a Thinkpad one.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Well, it's hard to argue with your sample size of two :)
I haven't purchased an Apple product since 2009 - but it was a very nice laptop. I did kill the first power cord after a few years, and I also killed the power supply a few years after that. But I got 8 years out of the thing, so I really can't complain. Thinkpads are also really nice. Actually, most stuff above the $800 threshold is pretty decent IMHO. I'm using an HP Envy at the moment, and I'd say it doesn't feel as solid as a MacBook, but it is still a nice machine.
But I don't have pets, so stuff doesn't really get clogged up - Mac or otherwise. Even my vacuum cleaner is elderly by pet-owner standards.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I like my macbook. It beats the hell out of my Lenovo IdeaPad which I was very disappointed with; but then that I bought two full years before my MacBook and it matched the capability for 1/5 the price ($1000) so I can't really complain about that either. It's just that Apple doesn't seem to focus on durability at all which really bothers me. In my mind, the key to designing a consumer level laptop is to make an assistant for life. A Thinkpad is like Tonto, it will ride through the dust and throw down if it has to. Macbooks are more like.. rare butterflies. And who wants a butterfly for an assistant.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
They do.
https://www.statista.com/stati...
Get rid of your filthy animal.
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
My day is never quite complete if I don't get input from the anal retentive crowd. Thank you for that.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.