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Aston Martin Will Make Old Cars Electric So They Don't Get Banned From Cities (theverge.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the what's-old-is-new-again dept.

Aston Martin announced this week that it's starting a "Heritage EV" program where owners of classic Aston Martins can have their cars converted to an all-electric powertrain. The British automaker said they are starting this program so that classic cars don't get banned from cities that are moving to shun internal combustion engines in favor of boosting air quality for residents. The Verge reports: Aston Martin says the technology for these conversions will be built on "key components" being used to develop the Rapide E, a super-limited all-electric sports car due late next year. The Rapide E will use an 800-volt, 65kWh battery, offer "over 200 miles" of range, and feature a sub-4-second 0-60 mph time, as well as a top speed of 155 miles per hour. Only 155 of them will be sold, too. So the best way to get a taste of Aston Martin's electric future might actually be one of these EV conversions.

The automaker says the first car it will develop a conversion plan for is the 1970 DB6 MkII Volante. Aston Martin will build Rapide E-inspired "cassettes" that can essentially slide in where the original engine and gearbox used to be, and will even be attached to the same mountings. A new screen will be fitted in the car's interior, but otherwise, little else is changed. This also means that, should an owner change their mind, and also have the money (which, come on, of course they do), they should be able to change it back if they so desire.

98 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. I doubt tthat reason... by bickerdyke · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even here in Germany, classic cars are exempt from most air qualityrules (and even regular car taxes) so I doubt that would be a problem anywhere else.

    But then, this is pretty cool and catapults classic cars into the 21st century.

    And best of it is: A company is showing dedication to their own products and is not trying to obsolete their old products as fast as possible to sell a few more new ones. That's the long term support i want to see from phone manufacturers.

    --
    bickerdyke
    1. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You won't see this from phone manufacturers. While many devices, not just Apple's, are priced like luxury objects, they are still very much mass produced commodity items.

      Aston Martin does not make commodity items. You usually do not buy an Aston Martin for your commute. Aston Martin sells you a dream. And dreams are something people cultivate.

    2. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by Freischutz · · Score: 3, Informative

      What are you going to do next? Put nuclear power in a model A?

      Been done and abandoned as impractical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    3. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Well yes, an iPhone may be many people's dream, too, but yes, to Apple it's a mass product.

      Even better to see that these cars are the manufacturers dream also and something that they appreciate, too.

      --
      bickerdyke
    4. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      A company is showing dedication to their own products and is not trying to obsolete their old products as fast as possible to sell a few more new ones

      It's a sound business model. Those classic car owners can probably afford the price even at double what it actually cost Aston Martin (and that's probably what they'll charge). And there's already a few small outfits offering this service for classic cars.

      But for ordinary cars it's just not going to make economic sense unless prices come down a lot. And to think the movie Back to the Future II predicted we'd be able to buy conversion kits to make our old cars fly... (for only $49,995)

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    5. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      Hamburg? I haven't seen that data. I think you made it up.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    6. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 2

      You can bet if the retrofits work well, there is a lot of money to be made applying this to other models.
      I doubt this will work generally for performance driven cars, but will be very popular choice for cars whose popularity is principally based on their looks.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    7. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      a German city recently banned Diesel cars from certain areas and air quality got WORSE

      I am not very surprised. The issue of air pollution is more about politics and propaganda than science. The VW "scandal" being an example. The regulations did not specify emissions while driving the car, they specified the emissions in the lab. That is the same as saying "we require X performance in a benchmark" - ie virtually a request to game the system.

      The problem now is that people are being driven to

      • Petrol
      • Diesel with Urea injection

      Petrol produces "Oxides of Nitrogen", (which are popular with certain people for "boosting their heart", and have a half life in minutes) but they are removed by a catalytic converter. Petrol also produces unburned hydrocarbons ("Volatile Organic Compounds") - which are known carcinogens.

      Older diesel engines do not produce oxides of nitrogen, because they do not have high enough combustion temperature. However, they tend to produce soot (which is known as "activated carbon" in other circumstances). It looks bad, but probably does not do much harm. It could be removed with a particulate filter, but older diesels don't have a filter.

      Newer diesels use urea injection to mitigate the oxides of nitrogen. They squirt "AdBlu" into the exhaust pipe. How much AdBlu is needed? well it depends on the instantaneous temperature and pressure during combustion - which you can't measure or guess on the basis of fuel burned. So its a wild guess. Too little, and you get oxides of nitrogen, too much and you get urea in the exhaust. The manufactures of AdBlu (which is basically pigs piss) get lots of your money.

      A lot of the pollution from vehicles is particulates from the brakes and tyres - which is probably far worse for you than the items mentioned above, and is worse with electric cars because they are heavier.

      The charts show that all pollution from vehicles in Western Europe has been falling steadily since the 1970's, as has pollution from most other sources. Not sure about the rest of the world. Figures for "deaths from pollution" are pretty much all made up. I am not saying there aren't any - only that no one has "cause of death: pollution" on their death certificate, and therefore _numbers_ are not based on actual evidence.

      If it was down to me, I would recommend diesel engines with exhaust gas recirculation and a particulate filter. These run slower than the Urea Injection engines and avoid the very high temperatures that require urea injection. This means they are slightly larger and heavier, and have a longer life. They may also have marginally lower fuel efficiency. Needless to say, its not up to me. As with most things today, we have to have a disaster before anyone will want to know the truth.

      Disclaimer: I have not worked in the auto industry or anything connected with it, but I have built my own cars and engines, and know a thing or two about diesel engines and combustion.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    8. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      EV conversions for classic sports care are gaining popularity because they often improve the cars for the owners. They go from high maintenance and relatively unimpressive performance (engines in the 60s and 70s just were not that powerful), to low maintenance and more performance than a car without advanced traction control can really handle.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sports cars are the ideal vehicles to convert. Even newer ones tend to have longitudinal engines which means lots of room in the engine bay, so no weird engineering problems trying to fit stuff into the vehicle. The only big problem is the battery. For older vehicles it's not much of a problem, but newer ones often have oddly-shaped fuel tanks for packaging reasons.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      it depends on the instantaneous temperature and pressure during combustion - which you can't measure or guess on the basis of fuel burned.

      Of course you can guess, and that's what they do. You could also measure, cylinder pressure sensors are an actual thing, but they are expensive so they are only creeping into production vehicles slowly. It's a good argument for making an engine with less cylinders, though, because things which you have to pay for per-cylinder are reduced in number.

      You can definitely expect cylinder temperature and pressure sensors to creep into production vehicles before the death of the ICE. You can just get on a website and order them, they're not rocket science. They're automotive technology :p

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by i.r.id10t · · Score: 2

      There is an outfit in Tampa that provides electric conversions to just about any rear-engined VW or Porsche that uses the 180mm or 200mm clutch/flywheel - VW bugs and buses of all years, the VW thing, the Prosche 356, 912, early 911, and 914

      While not cheaper than a crate VW engine, cost for complete set up is about what a good engine rebuild on the 356 would cost me...

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    12. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't you say a custom battery pack could take just about any shape you need? Or are there some special cooling/heating requirements that require it to be flat or rectangular?

    13. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      I can't even be sure of that anymore, due to advances in news reporting

    14. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by aicrules · · Score: 1

      Electric cars were considered impractical too. Now technology (and consumer demand) have made it viable. Could be a future where electric converted Aston Martins get a nuclear reactor conversion. Doesn't seem terribly likely, but you never know...

    15. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Numbers can be tricky. What affects the cost of car conversions from infernal combustion to all electric is not actually the cost of the conversion, it is actually the cost of the loss of investment in the current fossil fueled vehicle.

      So it is all about how much people are willing to invest in order to protect an existing investment. The more the vehicle is worth, the greater the cost of the electric can be and that cost still be justified to preserve the value of the vehicle.

      So how much will a $100,000 vehicle be worth if it is banned from metropolitan areas, pretty much zero, so how much can you spend to preserve the $100,000 dollar value, well, even a 10% return is good so effectively $90,000, just numbers. So obviously, $25,000 would be an easy spend to protect $100,000. Even if the original owners do not do it, you can guarantee companies will be establish who buy fossil fuel vehicles on the cheap, do the conversions and then sell them all electric vehicles.

      The higher the value of the vehicle the more likely it is to be converted, the lower the value, the more likely it is to be, well, recycled ;).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    16. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      It's not just brakes and tyres, it's also road surface itself. The heavier the vehicle, the particulates it pulls out of the road and into the air.

      That's why in the Northern regions of Europe, where spikes in tyres are mandatory for safety reasons, worst kind of pollution happens on cold, windless, iceless and snowless days. That's when tyre spikes keep tearing particulates out of the roads and toss them into the air, where there's no wind to clear them out.

    17. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      In theory, yes it could. But that's just another engineering hassle if it has to be done over and over again for each vehicle. As the batteries become more stable and they lose the characteristic that they burst into flame if something goes wrong, the packaging should become easier.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      You usually do not buy an Aston Martin for your commute.

      True. Unless it is an Aston Martin Cygnet http://www.astonmartin.com/en/...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    19. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      Numbers can be tricky. What affects the cost of car conversions from infernal combustion to all electric is not actually the cost of the conversion, it is actually the cost of the loss of investment in the current fossil fueled vehicle.

      ...So how much will a $100,000 vehicle be worth if it is banned from metropolitan areas, pretty much zero,

      I don't get it. Sports cars are for driving out on the open road. The metropolitan bans are typically for the crowded downtown areas. You don't even want to take your sports car there, you want a little runabout for that.

      I would have said that converting a classic Aston Martin from gas to electric would turn it from a collectable into a hodgepodge.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    20. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      I was wondering about that also. This is the only thing that I could find that may be what the previous poster was talking about.
      https://www.npr.org/sections/p...

      The critics argue that Hamburg's partial ban â" which officials estimate will reduce traffic by about 6,000 cars per day, or one-fifth the usual number of cars on those streets â" will lower the readings at air quality monitoring stations in the ban zone, but will generate more emissions elsewhere because drivers will spend more time trying to circumvent the area.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    21. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      That's pretty interesting. I've no idea what people in your neck of the woods would charge for a 356 engine rebuild. I check around and found some conversion kits for the cars you mentioned here. They have conversion kits for $7,500 or so, motors, batteries and regenerative brakes. Plus labour to get everything installed. So you're looking at around $10k for a conversion with what is probably a very low range battery. That may be worth it for our beloved and collectible 911, but for the Volco C70 that's worth maybe €15,000 not so much.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    22. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by netwiz · · Score: 1

      Particulates from tires are a non-issue, as studies have discovered a species of bacteria that evolved the ability to consume vulcanized rubber, which has been doing just that for decades, eating the tire dust alongside roadways.

    23. Re:I doubt tthat reason... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Even here in Germany, classic cars are exempt from most air qualityrules

      For now.

    24. Re: I doubt tthat reason... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Could be a future where electric converted Aston Martins get a nuclear reactor conversion. Doesn't seem terribly likely, but you never know...

      It would take some kind of fundamental breakthrough in small fusion reactor technology to make it even slightly sensible. And then we can build retro cars with fusion reactors in them and we'll be all ready for Fallout.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. Re:I know by Freischutz · · Score: 1

    What kind of car Iâ(TM)m gonna write about next!! Thanks slashdot!

    Oh, stop being such a Grinch. This is actually kind of cool.

  3. Love this by Can'tNot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The big problem that I have with EVs is that they're all new. In other words, they all have "navigation systems." In other words, they all spy on you.

    This lets me have an EV and lets me grandfather in my privacy at the same time.

    1. Re:Love this by hazardPPP · · Score: 1

      The big problem that I have with EVs is that they're all new. In other words, they all have "navigation systems." In other words, they all spy on you.

      Here's an EV that's just a car (well, a truck), without any fancy-schmancy nav or other tech. Look at the dashboard...

    2. Re:Love this by Lothsahn · · Score: 3, Informative

      I drive a Nissan Leaf with the telematics disabled. It's extremely easy to do on any 2011-2017 Nissan leaf. I'm assuming the 2018 is the same, but they did do a redesign. It took 15 minutes of my time and one screwdriver to disable the TCU, and I'm very much a beginner with cars.

      https://www.mynissanleaf.com/v...

      You still have options, for now.

      --
      -=Lothsahn=-
    3. Re:Love this by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      Oops, critical income from the gas tax is down, because we've banned ICE vehicles. By law your car shall be equipped with a gps unit, so how many miles you've driven and where can be tracked for the purpose of mileage tax.

      But it really won't report location data, ever, pinky swear.

    4. Re:Love this by Can'tNot · · Score: 1

      That's... actually really nice. I don't need a truck, but a boutique manufacturer like that might be the right way to go.

  4. Will that include by rossdee · · Score: 4, Funny

    James Bonds DB5 with the machine guns and ejector seat

    1. Re:Will that include by esperto · · Score: 2

      If you think about it, converting to EV would be perfect because the battery is under the floor and the engine is much smaller than the old ICE and would leave a LOT of space for the guns and gadgets, it could actually work!

    2. Re:Will that include by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      Maybe with the upgrade to electric the machine guns could be replaced with rail guns (appropriately sized).

  5. Re:I know by vtcodger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is actually kind of cool

    I agree. I have some doubts about this specific effort. Teslas are, to some extent, big heavy cars because they need a lot of battery space. I'm told that current Tesla batteries are approaching theoretical limits for Lithium-ion energy density. Not that that's an absolute limit on how compact car batteries can be, but it does suggest that wedging batteries into an Aston-Martin DB6 that is a foot shorter than a Tesla Model 3 and unlike the Model 3 not designed around the need for a large battery pack may be a problem. Of course, the engine, transmission, and fuel tank are no longer needed, so maybe it will work out.

    And the weight distribution will likely be quite different. That's got to affect handling?

    I'm not especially a car guy, so maybe I'm overestimating the problems. Or maybe I'm missing some. But anyway, it's interesting, and, I agree, kind of cool.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  6. investment out of window by sad_ · · Score: 2

    great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless.
    it will only be worth its money if it is in its original state.

    nobody is driving these classic cars anyway, except maybe once or twice a year to go to a meeting or somesuch. even then, it might be they're just transported with a trailer. and these meetings typically don't take place in a city (not enough space to display so many cars anyway). so no cause for banning-fear.

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
    1. Re:investment out of window by hazardPPP · · Score: 2

      it will only be worth its money if it is in its original state.

      Basically no classic car is in its "original state". I would venture as to say that no car, period, is in its "original state" after about 5 years. However this especially applies to cars which are decades old. Most of these classic cars have been re-worked and restored many times.

      Whether a classic roadster converted to an EV is worthless is in the eye of the beholder. I have zero interest in buying a classic roadster with its old sputtering engine, this just has no appeal to me. On the other hand, if I could buy a car that looks like an old roadster from the outside but is actually a new EV on the inside, I'd go for it. I'm also sure there are people to whom both would appeal.

      nobody is driving these classic cars anyway, except maybe once or twice a year to go to a meeting or somesuch.

      Well maybe to some people that would be the point of an EV conversion? What good is a car that just sits in a garage most of the time? Might as well be in a museum then. Converting it to EV might allow you to actually drive it regularly.

    2. Re:investment out of window by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 2

      great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless.

      I think a car is the worst investment anyway if you want sell it with profit. The value of a car is in the fun to drive it, and in the freedom of having an independent long distance transport capability. Electrification of a historical machine might be a great idea, but that is up to the owner. Not everyone will like it.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    3. Re:investment out of window by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Electric conversions are already quite popular for classic cars because the fossil engines wear out and deteriorate to the point where they need replacing anyway, so only the ones kept in museums are original these days anyway.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:investment out of window by froggyjojodaddy · · Score: 1

      The number of cars that can be considered 'investments' is extremely small. Unless you have something like a Ferrari F40 or other super-niche super car, you've bought it to enjoy it, not to make money off it. The majority of super/hyper car owners buy them to actually drive them - I've joined a few owners forums and there are plenty of folks who drive their $1M+ vehicles practically daily.

      If you have an old Aston Martin but find it difficult to drive because you know after an hour or so, it's gonna need a lot of TLC, switching to an electric drive train makes perfect sense.

      I have a BMW 650 that is my summer car. However, like most BMW's, it suffers from the occasional oil leak, random blips during idle, and the ever looming threat of the SMG gearbox eating itself. Switching to an electric drive system would be perfect. I still get to enjoy driving it but don't have to worry about all the mechanical problems associated with an ICE..

    5. Re:investment out of window by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I think a car is the worst investment anyway if you want sell it with profit.

      Cars are short-term investment vehicles, pun intended. They physically depreciate by degrading, so you have to constantly be working on them over the long term. But if you spot a trend happening, then you can make some good money by buying the right vehicle with the right provenance for the right amount of money, at the right time. Like anything else.

      The Ferrari bubble might be about to pop, and muscle cars have peaked. What's next? The only cars worth a damn in the eighties were Japanese sports cars, and some high-end German saloons, so I guess we can expect the best of those to go through the roof next.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:investment out of window by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You obviously know nothing about car collectors.
      Which implies you know nothing about other kinds of collectors ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:investment out of window by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless. it will only be worth its money if it is in its original state.

      Maybe not. This isn't someone doing a backyard conversion; it's Aston Martin engineering a solution so it's still an Aston Martin and not some cobbled up Frankenmartin. In addition, they are doing a limited run per TFA so each conversion will be a rare variant. Plus, the whole thing is reversible:

      Given the historical significance of these collectors cars it’s vital any EV conversion is sympathetic to the integrity of the original car. The cassette system offers the perfect solution, offering owners the reassurance of knowing their car is future-proofed and socially responsible, yet still an authentic Aston Martin with the ability to reinstate its original powertrain if desired.

      Giving all of that they may wind up being more valuable to a collector.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    8. Re:investment out of window by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      And, remember, as Mater said, And then I remembered what they say about old British engines: "If there ain't no oil under 'em, there ain't no oil in 'em."

      This fixes that.

      Yup. If you rebuild it it'll just leak clean oil for awhile.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    9. Re:investment out of window by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless.

      Depends on your investment. There are those people who buy these show ponies to keep them all original. Then there are those that buy them for various conversion / changes. They retain their invested value for different reasons, and Aston Martin wouldn't be the first to have a classic go electric (though they may be the first to offer this service from the original vendor).

    10. Re:investment out of window by sad_ · · Score: 1

      "Well maybe to some people that would be the point of an EV conversion? What good is a car that just sits in a garage most of the time? Might as well be in a museum then. Converting it to EV might allow you to actually drive it regularly."

      it's an investment, like i said, they are not supposed to be driven, but rather just looked at, like a piece of art.
      and just like art, not all art should be in a museum, nothing wrong with enjoying it privatly in your home collection.
      these cars are also not very much fun to drive, even with a conversion to EV they will still basically suck.
      and let's not talk about the fact that they are insecure, borderline dangerous to drive.

      i'm sure there is a market for classic looking cars with modern interiours, just look at what singer is doing with old porsche's and i think jaguar rereleased their e-type, but with EV drivetrain and modern suspension, brakes, crash/safety features.

      --
      On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  7. Need an XJE by dltaylor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My '04 XJR is about as perfect a road car as I can find. Physically, I fit, unlike a Tesla Model S, and it is quite roomy; the large "greenhouse" gives me great visibility; it has sufficient power; it handles beautifully. Currently, because I drive long distances on obscure roads, an electric is not useful to me as an "only" car. However, as an alternative for city use, an electric version would be magnificent. Jaguar has a decent history of electrics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75, as well as a current "Sport Utility" model https://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/i-pace/index.html. A retrofit kit for a same model XJ would make much more sense to me than anything likely to come out in the foreseeable future.

  8. Re:I know by burhop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh, stop being such a Grinch. This is actually kind of cool.

    I've got an 82 Corvette that I'd love to convert. the cars from about 1975 To 1990 suffered greatly from loss of power due to emission controls. getting up to Tesla speed plus having some new tech to play with would be fun.

  9. From TFA: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The automaker says the first car it will develop a conversion plan for is the 1970 DB6 MkII Volante. Aston Martin will build Rapide E-inspired “cassettes” that can essentially slide in where the original engine and gearbox used to be, and will even be attached to the same mountings. A new screen will be fitted in the car’s interior, but otherwise, little else is changed. This also means that, should an owner change their mind, and also have the money (which, come on, of course they do), they should be able to change it back if they so desire.

    “Given the historical significance of these collectors cars it’s vital any EV conversion is sympathetic to the integrity of the original car,” the company wrote in a press release this week. “The cassette system offers the perfect solution, offering owners the reassurance of knowing their car is future-proofed and socially responsible, yet still an authentic Aston Martin with the ability to reinstate its original powertrain if desired.”

  10. Re:I know by mermeid007 · · Score: 2

    Depends on the car. I have friends who live for working on their cars. An Aston Martin deserves to be parked in a nice garage, taken for a spin every so often and have the oil changed on schedule.

  11. Re:I know by shortscruffydave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was at a classic car show a few weeks ago, and saw an old MG that had been converted in a similar way. The company who did it said that the conversion actually improved the car's handling - as well as being in the boot (trunk for USA-ians) batteries were also distributed along the car's floor, which lowered the centre of gravity compared to the regular car

  12. Re:Why would they get banned? by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

    I've been saying this for so long I can't remember. Nice to hear someone else not reject the idea.

  13. Re:I know by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The thing is, nobody sane takes an antique Aston Martin on a 4 hour trip. You take one out for 30-40 minutes and then have a rest. Or, you are using the car in an actual multi-day race, in which case you would obviously not undergo an electric conversion.
    I expect very few classic car owners would both cruise in the town for fun, and also race with the same car.

    --
    Take off every 'sig' !!
  14. Prestige by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Anyone who does this isn't really a fan of the car itself, they like the idea of the prestige of being seen driving the car. A fan of the car itself would want it to drive as much as possible like it did the first day out of the factory.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Prestige by sinij · · Score: 1

      I have a number of classic cars that I drive, and let me tell you - modern car era started during 80s. Anything before that would have noticeable performance and handling drawbacks.

      Generally, you wouldn't want to take 60s era car and daily drive. Not only because of reliability and safety concerns, but generally because it won't accelerate and handle well enough to meet modern expectations.

    2. Re:Prestige by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I have a 66 and I used it as a daily driver in the summer for three years. Not sure what you mean by 'modern expectations', it accelerated faster than any new car I had driven and that's what I found fun about it. Anyway, my point is, if you convert a car to electric it's not the same car, it's a different car.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re:Prestige by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      In all seriousness, we talk about planned obsolescence or poor warranty/support as though the parts those ideas apply to are the problem. When a part is not maintained or faulty, it damages other parts. Its not just the engine of an AM going bad, its what that does to the rest of the car. Something to keep in mind when criticizing or oversimplifying an idea.

    4. Re:Prestige by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      A fan of the car itself would want it to drive as much as possible like it did the first day out of the factory.

      In that case a fan of the car would probably want to do some conversion, modification / modernisation. People who drive their cars are often the ones who swap engines or do something in order to retain or beat the original performance of the car. People who keep it stock own show ponies and are often okay with the fact that after 40 years regardless of maintenance these things don't actually drive like they used to, and when they do they realise how poor their drive actually was.

      This is nothing new either: https://www.digitaltrends.com/...

  15. Re:A great precendent to set. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

    Can _you_ afford an Aston Martin?

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  16. Weight distribution? by crashumbc · · Score: 1

    My concern, would be where is the battery going to go? How is the weight going to be handled?

    Batteries are a LOT heavier then a combustion engine.

    How is that extra weight going to be handled?

      Will you need to beef up the suspension?

    What about front to rear distribution?

    This "conversion" could totally destroy the handling

    1. Re:Weight distribution? by bonedonut · · Score: 1

      put it where the gas tank is.

    2. Re:Weight distribution? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Holy shit! You're right! I'd better call A-M right away, for surely their engineers haven't taken ANY of this into account!

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:Weight distribution? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      You can't. Gas tanks are at the back of the car normally, and putting something as heavy as a battery at the back of the car would cause the back end to swing out around corners.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  17. Re:I know by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I've got an 82 Corvette that I'd love to convert. the cars from about 1975 To 1990 suffered greatly from loss of power due to emission controls.

    If you think you've got a place to mount the battery in that chassis without destroying the handling, more power to you. But if all you want is more power you can get it cheaper and easier with an LS swap.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  18. Re:I know by unimacs · · Score: 1

    You're right, a Tesla is designed from the ground up to be an EV and provisions are made for a large battery pack. But they are also designed to be mass produced and at least semi-affordable.

    An Aston-Martin conversion is a little more free of these last constraints. There might be multiple battery packs that require a fair amount of labor to install. And when all is said and done the range may not be all that impressive, but how many miles does a typical 1970 DB6 get driven in one shot anyway?

  19. Re: I know by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

    Maybe you just need the right training to hold them all at the same time

  20. Re:I know by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The thing is, nobody sane takes an antique Aston Martin.. and BUTCHERS it eviscerating its heritage and history.

    These aren't collectibles insomuch as "choppers".

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  21. Shunning combusion for electricity? by Daralantan · · Score: 1

    cities that are moving to shun internal combustion engines

    My first thought was of this lyric: "You know, I shun fancy things like electricity" - Amish Paradise.

  22. Re:I know by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    But if it's great handling you are after, then just buy a car with great handling.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  23. why don't we do this with all cars? by bonedonut · · Score: 2

    modern cars are basically fully electronic, it seems like it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to pull the IC/tran and replace it with an electric drive train. It seems like there is a business model in there somewhere.

    1. Re:why don't we do this with all cars? by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      If the car is old and interesting enough, preservation is its own business model and the desired result is continued preservation

    2. Re:why don't we do this with all cars? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Except this isn't preservation. It's taking an old body and putting it on a new car.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  24. Re:I know by Solandri · · Score: 2

    For improved handling, you want the mass towards the center, as close as possible to midway between the two axles. That'll minimize the moment of inertia, allowing the car to "turn on a dime." That's why most of the famous sports cars are rear-engine two seaters, and tend to spin out in the hands of an inexperienced driver (rear wheel drive + small moment of inertia = easy to spin out).

    Tesla did it right with the battery pack under the floor. Putting some batteries in the trunk indicates they needed to counterbalance excessive weight towards the front, meaning the two combine for a higher moment of inertia. The car will not react as quickly as it could to steering input (doesn't handle as well as it could).

  25. Re:I know by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

    I have heard about someone converting a 74 'Vette. It isn't going to win any races, and the hackneyed emissions stuff made it a PITA. So, they took the engine and other junk out, put some batteries behind the driver and the rest under the hood, to balance the vehicle out. Supposedly greatly improved not just performance, but handling, and the upfitters even used the fuel fill port for the charging port, so there were not any additional holes made in the fiberglass.

    Anything 1973 or earlier, I'd never do that on, because those had great performance, but anything from 1974 to early 1980s would probably be better off being made into an electric vehicle.

  26. So the images shown in the Film "Gattaca" ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... weren't all to far off.

    I had that suspicion. That in some hyper-clean futuristic world neo-hippster-compliant retro chique would be en-vogue again. Mark my words: Once elctric cars automated become commonplace, you'll be able to order them build in some retro style for those who have extra cash and want to distinguish themselves from the unwashed masses.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:So the images shown in the Film "Gattaca" ... by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      In a hyper-clean futuristic world, it's likely cars would be assembled on demand, anyway. Since the sled itself would be standardized, a selling feature would be customers able to customize the body through a CAD application before it is printed.

      People rolling around in personalized, retro-style rides would probably be more common than you think.

  27. Re:Why would they get banned? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Feel free to riot

    FIFY.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  28. Re:Wouldn't recycled gasoline be a better choice? by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    I mean the point is to not use up resources until we don't have any, and to not throw shit into nature until we're living in our own shit.

    No, the point of metropolitan bans is that a lot of cars in a densely populated small urban area makes unbreathable air.

    Overall, fuel efficiency and pollution and carbon efficiency mean, as you say, that you don't want to use up resources, but the specific application discussed here is cities.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  29. Value will disappear by biggaijin · · Score: 2

    Let's face it: Aston-Martins are not cars that people buy to use for their work commute. They are expensive and relatively small numbers of them are made. And as they age, they tend to become even more valuable. The idea of taking a valuable 1970 Aston Martin Volante and stripping out the engine and drive train to install electric motors and batteries does not seem like a good one to me. These cars will immediately lose all of their collector value and the owners' investment in them will tank. Knowing the company, it probably will not be cheap to make the conversion, either.

    1. Re:Value will disappear by nevermindme · · Score: 1

      There are good Astro Martins that you see going up for sale at auctions going for unreasonable prices because they are more perfect than factory new. And then there is what is sitting in barns around the world that is in need of alot of care. Astro Martin is offering their service department a chance at servicing cars that may never be driven safely on the road again.

      These are owned by people with significant sums of money to recapture a dream. Making a 90hp-105ft-lb car that had 4 carbs and electrics that were impossible to keep serviceable into a 50hp / 400 ft-lb electric car and selling a 75-85-year-old customer a 40k powertrain conversion another 20k in restoration services is the goal. Anything to get these cars into the serice bay and perhaps sell a new model to an affuent owner while just one more thing is fixed.

  30. Sounds scary by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

    With the original ICE this car did 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. I have to wonder how the stock frame and suspension are going to handle that much extra torque. Additionally, this car did not have any sort of traction control. Will that be added as part of the conversation? I didn't RTFA, so I also have to wonder if the brakes are to be improved. I'm assuming it will have regenerative brakes. Then there's the matter that less than 2000 of these were built to begin with.

    I spent a lot of my youth looking to go faster. But I also tried to only modify cars that weren't rare or classics. By the time the 1980s rolled around 1970 to 1974 were my favorite years for cars. They tended to be ignored/despised, but were pre emissions for the most part. Had too many friends that had cars that sat in climate controlled garages at that point and never understood the point. There will be a lot of those type of people who will be awfully pissed off about someone doing this to a fairly rare, well loved car like this Aston Martin

  31. Re:Lots of people. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Maybe the divide is the fact that I live in Canada and we aren't really subject to emissions laws, or the ones that are there only apply to vehicles manufactured after the day the law was enforced. I like driving old cars for a lot of reasons that go away in an EV conversion. The smell of the gas and oil, the sound of the exhaust, the sucking sound of the carb. Change the drive train to EV and that experience becomes like driving a new car with a lot of down sides because you have retrofit something that was never supposed to be there. It just seems far more efficient to call it what it is at that point and buy an EV if that is what you really want.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  32. Ripping the heart out of the car by going EV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sad news that the heart of a vintage sports car is being ripped out to satisfy the supposed EV requirements. No self-respecting gearhead/petrolhead is awed by EVs; sure certain hybrids(Porsche 918, Ferrari La Ferrari). Destroying works of art to appears the EV requirements is a crime.

  33. What about the transmission? by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While an Aston Martin is out of my price range regardless, one of the key elements of a sports car is the availability of a manual transmission. I don't see any mention of how the transmission would work after this conversion. By my understanding most all-electric cars on the road today use either single speed transmissions or CVTs; neither are particularly sporting for someone who really wants to have fun driving. I hope they have something figured out for that.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  34. Not going to happen by OYAHHH · · Score: 1

    I will NEVER hack my classic car in this manner!

    Tantamount to saying, "Oh look the Sistine Chapel isn't beautiful enough, let me paint half of it! I can make it better"

    Yeah, that would do it.

    Not.

    This goes part and parcel with tearing down crosses on hillsides that have been there for decades, statues that have been around forever, and the destruction of historical sites by ISIS.

    Some people are just assholes from the word go.

    --
    Caution: Contents under pressure
    1. Re:Not going to happen by froggyjojodaddy · · Score: 1

      I think it would be more like,

      "Oh look, the Sistine Chapel has a bunch of cracks and the paint is so faded that you can barely make out the art. Let me call in the folks who painted it ( ok, that will be difficult, but bear with me ) and ask them to fix all the things wrong with it so it can be enjoyed for another 50 years"

  35. Re:I know by samwichse · · Score: 1

    Did you notice they talked about making it an "EV cassette" and that reversibility is heavily promoted?

    Doesn't seem too much like butchering to me.

  36. Point of Order by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    Why is Aston Martin announcing their car offerings in terms of MPH and "200 miles of range?" If they are a UK company shouldn't that all be in metric units?

  37. While I applaud this, there are problems: by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Aston Martin is far from being a mass-production autobile manufacturer, in fact they're the antithesis of that, and while I applaud the thought and effort that must be going into this, there's at least one problem with it. A 'classic' Aston Martin, 'upgraded' or 'converted' to plug-in electric, will for all intents and purposes have it's value as a 'classic' car destroyed by this, even if it's done at the Aston Martin factory with Aston Martin components, because it won't be a 'classic' Aston Martin at that point; only with the original powertrain can it still be considered as such, so on that point I find this offer from Aston Martin to be surprising. Classic Aston Martin owners would essentially see the value in their classic car destroyed.

  38. Re:I know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The thing is, nobody sane takes an antique Aston Martin.. and BUTCHERS it eviscerating its heritage and history.

    These aren't collectibles insomuch as "choppers".

    You can convert classic cars in such a way that they can be converted back to ICE. This is what Jaguar themselves did with the E-Type Zero:

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=610Amyhpzzk

    See also third-party conversion of a Porsche:

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs

    No butchering needed: take out ICE, add e-motor and batters with some cable.

  39. Re:I know by Hylandr · · Score: 1

    There are critical safety implications involved in doing this though. The size of a laptop battery has the explosive force of a grenade. Tesla cars are designed to protect the battery. Converted cars, not so much. There's also the issue of training for EMS to prevent death resulting from electrical shock. Tesla's and Prius' are obvious. But this old car everyone is expecting to have an ICE powerplant? Sure, throw water on that fire...

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  40. Beware by Knuckles · · Score: 1

    Only do this if you want to wipe out the value of your classic Aston

    --
    "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
  41. Re:I know by froggyjojodaddy · · Score: 1

    I don't think anyone buys an MG for the great handling :)

    but if you've bought an MG and can improve the performance and reliability, it doesn't detract from the main reason you bought an MG. Which I'm assuming is you like the shape, the interior, and the size

    If I could buy an 80's Mercedes 560SEC but replace the engine and transmission with an electric drive train, I would be a very happy person.

  42. Re:I know by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    But then you don't want a Mercedes 560SEC, you want some other car that has a similar size and shape but handles better.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  43. Re:I know by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Like maybe a Miata

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  44. Re:I know by vtcodger · · Score: 1

    ...saw an old MG that had been converted in a similar way.

    If nothing else, I'd guess that the original Lucas electronics were ripped out and replaced with something -- anything -- that actually works. That has to be a major step foward. Old Joke: "Why do the British drink warm beer?" Answer "Lucas refrigerators"

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  45. Re:I know by vux984 · · Score: 1

    Frankly, i think the solution here is for cities to relax the bans on gasoline cars to exclude collectors items insured as collectors cars with collector plates. If you are driving it on Sunday's only, and keeping it restored to original specs, its contribution to pollution is minimal, and its contribution to culture and tradition and history far outweighs that.

    Just as we won't tear down a heritage building even if we could replace it with a better insulated more energy efficient one; we shouldn't ruin a classic car.

    If I went downtown and it was all electrics with a couple vintage collectibles thrown into the mix; a 30s dodge; a Porsche 356, 60s Corvette, to see those preserved and original, would just make the world better.

    Ripping the engine out of an Aston Martin... ruins it. If you want a classic aston electrified... just make a kit-car for that. It'll be just as much fun, and doesn't ruin actual classic aston martins.

    Since this is /. and this is about cars, here's a computer analogy this would be like buying a working Altair, or Mark-8, or Micral-N, or PDP-8, or Apple 1, .. then throwing the guts out and sticking a raspberry pi in it.

    I mean if you've got a competely nonfunctional one, sure, its a great way to recycle it and make something useful and retro... but to destroy a working unit just to make a fun housing for a pi... that's demented.

  46. Re:I know by froggyjojodaddy · · Score: 1

    No, I really , genuinely want a 560SEC. I love the shape and design. But I don't want the mechanical headache of a 20+ year old car, even if it was made in the era of over-engineered Mercedes.

    The poster below you suggested a Miata but I can't imagine anyone in the market for a 560SEC thinking a Miata hits all the same critera. I mean, they're both cars, but that's probably as much as they have in common.