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Should America Build a Virtual Border Wall? Or Just Crowdfund It... (chicagotribune.com)
As America's government faces its longest-ever shutdown over the president's demands for border wall funding, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has suggested "possible alternatives to a physical wall," according to one Silicon Valley newspaper:
Among the president's justifications for a wall is to stop drugs from coming into the United States, so Pelosi proposed spending "hundreds of millions of dollars" for technology to scan cars for drugs, weapons and contraband at the border. "The positive, shall we say, almost technological wall that can be built is what we should be doing," Pelosi, D-San Francisco, said during her weekly press conference.
That didn't go over well with Fight for the Future, a digital rights advocacy group that on Friday started a petition asking Democrats to drop plans for a "technological wall" that it says could threaten Fourth Amendment rights that guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. "Current border surveillance programs subject people to invasive and unconstitutional searches of their cell phones and laptops, location tracking, drone surveillance, and problematic watchlists," the group's petition says...
In December, the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General released a report that showed searches of electronic devices at the border were up nearly 50 percent in 2017. The report also found that border agents were not always following standard operating procedures for searches, including failing to properly document such searches. In addition, information copied by agents were not always deleted as required.
The article also notes that Anduril Industries -- founded by Oculus Rift designer Palmer Luckey (and funded by Peter Thiel) -- is one of several companies already working on "a virtual border wall."
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Meanwhile, another 7,121 GoFundMe members have pledged $160,985 to a rival campaign raising money for ladders to climb over Trump's wall.
That didn't go over well with Fight for the Future, a digital rights advocacy group that on Friday started a petition asking Democrats to drop plans for a "technological wall" that it says could threaten Fourth Amendment rights that guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. "Current border surveillance programs subject people to invasive and unconstitutional searches of their cell phones and laptops, location tracking, drone surveillance, and problematic watchlists," the group's petition says...
In December, the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General released a report that showed searches of electronic devices at the border were up nearly 50 percent in 2017. The report also found that border agents were not always following standard operating procedures for searches, including failing to properly document such searches. In addition, information copied by agents were not always deleted as required.
The article also notes that Anduril Industries -- founded by Oculus Rift designer Palmer Luckey (and funded by Peter Thiel) -- is one of several companies already working on "a virtual border wall."
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Meanwhile, another 7,121 GoFundMe members have pledged $160,985 to a rival campaign raising money for ladders to climb over Trump's wall.
AFAIK, the "wall" is supposed to be built outside of official border crossing points. "Official" border crossings have used x-ray or similar scanners since at least 2012; they probably check for radiation too.
https://www.cnet.com/news/dhs-...
I'm not actually in favor of a wall, but Nauseating Nancy Pelosi seems to be discussing an entirely different issue. What's the long-term solution? Fix the broken immigration system, issue an amount of guest-worker permits that's sufficient to meet demand for immigration.
If we're going to build a "wall" along the border, I'm not sure that either a wall or high-tech will do much. Anyone willing to cross a hundred miles of desert isn't going to be fazed by another obstacle that's surmountable. Want to patrol the more rugged parts of the border? First build a road or track along it, then use Border Patrol mounted on horseback combined with drones with IR cameras. The terrain is such that mounted troops are actually more effective than motor vehicles or walls.
1/12/2019 @ 6:46 PM CST
Goal $1,000,000,000
Current Donations $20,360,122
Current People 340,800
Current Days 26
People/Day 13,108
Donations/Day $783,082
Days Til Goal 1,277
People Til Goal 435,203,679
The idea was to get $80 from all Americans (I don't know what that means ... babies can't participate).
Currently, it's at $59.74 per donor, on average.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
And hell, why not give money to all those private security companies to scan us fucking everywhere else while we're at it. It can't cost more than, say, an extra few trillion or so. The plebs are good for it.
Fucking trust the Dems to play their part in our ratchet effect dystopia by taking a fucking awful idea and and proposing a merely terrible one. An expensive idea of course, because after all these Republican tax cuts, the swifter destruction of government finances will hasten the end of all our nasty public services that neither party is very keen on anymore (Except the Big Data/Big Brother/Big Bomber stuff).
Crowdfund fucking my ass. Another juicy Big Government contract to fuck us all over while making profit for our emerging techno-overclass. Washington D.C. should be nuked.
Do you really want to fly when air traffic controllers are working without pay and probably even more stressed out than usual? That's how mistakes happen and mistakes get people killed.
Notice I'm not weeping for the "papers please" TSA jobsworths, but things like air traffic control, FAA inspections, FDA inspections, Dept of Ag, are actually useful and desirable.
There is also the human cost to consider.
Rep. Brooks outlines the cost of not having a wall:
“With the southern border, we have the loss of at least 15,000 Americans a year. You have 2,000 that are homicides by illegal aliens, according to federal government data. You’ve got another 15,000, 16,000 that die each year from heroin overdoses, 90 percent of which comes across our porous southern border. That’s not counting the 55,000 additional deaths that are caused by overdoses, a significant amount of which comes across the southern border,” Brooks stated."
I've looked into this, and the numbers are accurate. The GAO estimates for 2009 show that Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900.
"Taking the data only from these five states, and assuming that each person incarcerated for a homicide-related offense is responsible for only one death, yields 5,400 people killed by illegal aliens."
For comparison, automobile deaths in the US is around 35,000 annually.
Total non-medical deaths in the US is about 161,000 annually. Deaths due to illegals is more than 2% of that, possibly as much as 10%, depending on where you put the blame for overdosing.
All of this is fact, and should be the basis for any political arguments about the wall.
The human cost of not having a wall is very high.
"There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC." - When faggots like you lie do you even realize it anymore?
Pension bailout? Planned Parenthood? New Aircraft Carrier group?
Just crowdfund it. It'll be apparent everybody just want everyone else to pay for their pet cause.
You mean "nonessential" people like sysadmins who are not at work updating the latest local root bugs, or updating certificates, while Iran is doing a major attack against DNS servers? These "nonessential" people normally ensure that when you go to www.irs.gov to file taxes, you are really going to "www.irs.gov", and not "www.irs.ir", "www.irs.ru", or whatever TLD Lower Elbonia uses. Hopefully your tax return won't be captured and your refund snatched, but "nonessential" people prevent that from happening.
Then there are the national parks. The "nonessential" people keeping others from chainsawing stuff down in Joshua Tree, so they can romp with their four-wheelers.
Or perhaps food safety. USDA and other inspection workers are "nonessential", I guess. Just hope you don't get sick from another lysteria bout.
Maybe the CDC is "nonessential", as it really doesn't matter to some if a mutant flu starts or another SARS variant causing a high casualty count. Perhaps Ebola rearing its head may not be stopped because the "nonessential" people on the lookout for things like that are sidelined.
There will be ramifications of this shutdown that echo for years after this. We don't need a wall on the southern border; we need one in cyberspace.
Once the illegal migrant is in the USA they are free to stay for decades and generations.
Another nations criminal is free do do crime in the USA once past a virtual detection system.
Build a wall and the crime, illegal migration and moment of drugs stops along the wall.
Illegal migrants then have to present a legal crossing with fake documents and are easy to return to their own nations.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Technology sounds fine in the abstract, but it can't stop people from crossing unless you want to have armed drones. All it can do is say "hey there are some people crossing the border here" and then it is up to humans to go and intercept them. To stop the people the technology detects, you have to have perpetual funding and 24x365 staffing.... and a lot of staffing to cover a 2,000 mile border.
Sure some people will try to scale the wall. But not many. And even then it slows them down... every person in a group of 200 can't carry their own ladder and if they want to share 1 ladder they have to queue up. That delay is important because it gives you more time to get LEO to that location.
More importantly, a wall will divert most people to the ports of entry for orderly processing. Only the die-hards, criminals, smugglers, etc., will try to scale it.
Cool story bro. Have any more you can share?
would beg to differ. As would any air traveler who's stuck waiting in line because they're closing terminals due to a TSA shortage. Oh, and anyone who goes to public parks. And there's a ton of government web sites down.
But of course you know all this and are just trolling. I shouldn't feed the trolls, but there's a slim chance someone might believe you. There's a mountain of stuff private industry won't do because it's not profitable enough but it still needs doing.
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The solutions are simple and very cost-effective for society.
The problem is the rich people who currently run government know 95% of the public, including 2nd generation illegal invaders, do not want them there, and are desperately trying to figure out the right noises to utter to get the public to just ignore the problems so they can have their cake and eat it too.
The real issue is the uttering of noises is largely their placebo right now, not ours.
Public isn't going to back down on this one, so fix it or wait for real disaster to strike. Your call.
If you didn't read the news, you wouldn't know there is a federal shutdown.
There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC.
As long as the taxes are removed from my paycheck, the government is not shut down.
I don't even feel sorry for the nonessentials. Go look for a new job not funded by taxpayers if you want to avoid political gridlock delaying your paycheck.
That's just not true. 800,000 Americans have been directly impacted by the shutdown. By directly impacted, I mean that they are not receiving a paycheck. You have a right not to feel sorry for those impacted but don't go around saying that nobody outside of DC is effected as that is just plain false.
it's not interfering with Latin American countries for the sake of oil profits, cheap labor and our stupid, anti-left wing drug war.
If you want folks to stop streaming over the boarder make it so their countries aren't hell holes. Those people in the Caravans are refugees from political violence America caused by destabilizing their governments. Reign the CIA and the war hawks in.
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The advantage of a tunnel under a physical wall makes the 5 billion wasted for the cost of a shovel. Border official shows Trump tunnels under wall
"Socialism" is what makes life in the "Capitalist world" good. Public roads, public education, subsidized medicine research, safety regulations, military, police, equality... All "socialist" ideas, borrowed and implemented in every place you'd want to live.
The drugs are the problem. The demographic time bomb is. We don't need any third world mud people.
Crowdfunding the border wall might be a good idea. The irony of doing it that way is that it will show just how unpopular it is overall. I will bet that it will fail to reach the goal because only the lunatic fringe wants the wall built. As an NBC commentator noted, "It is a 13th century solution to a 19th century problem." Drugs will still make it into the United States by flying them via drones. Furthermore, those wishing to cross illegally need only to dig tunnels.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/01/11/border-official-trump-tunnels-under-wall-acosta-pkg-vpx.cnn .... Is it possible you're just too dumb to know about tunnels? I mean, you are fucking dense, but..
As would any air traveler who's stuck waiting in line because they're closing terminals due to a TSA shortage.
Easily solved with less government: remove the TSA entirely. Go back to airports with private security. Return to respecting the 4th amendment. Government agents searching you without probable cause in order to fly is such a blatant violation of our rights, and I don't ecall anything in the Bill of Rights that says "unless we're scared".
There's no evidence that the TSA improves security over the process we had in 1999. Other changes did help security, but not the TSA. We don't like them. We don't need them. But the government will never relinquish any power, no matter how petty or useless, over the people.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
" Go back to airports with private security " You must be too young to remember all the bombings and hijackings of the 60's and 70's. Go figure you're full of dumb ideas in lieu of knowing your history.
Have you met the blathering faggot above, (c)Okain "warrior" lol? I bet you guys could solve world hunger if you put your empty heads towards a libertarian moronic solution, why not try?
Take $20B out of the DoD budget and build a really awesome border wall.
Advantages:
* $20B that is spent domestically.
* $20B that builds things that last (ie not ordnance, bullets, etc.)
* Will pay for itself quickly with the reduction in human traffic across the border.
* Defense spending that saves lives instead of taking them.
Disadvantages:
* Keeps the flow of new Democratic voters reduced.
* Doesn't enrich the Military Industrial Complex.
* Forces the Chamber of Commerce to hire more native low skilled workers.
Huh, hard choice.
Cokain warrior you really are overhigh if you think a wall stops people arriving at airports, you dumb nazi faggot lol. When Trump hangs be sure to cry, lol.
You either have a physical border wall or you can't got shit.
Any barrier that can be built by tools can be penetrated by tools, it's just a matter of time and preparation. And in the very remote places the wall will go through, people have lots of time.
For the wall to work, it needs pretty close to continal surveillance in those remote places. Not only along the wall, but in front to detect people who went through or over or under. You also need to be able to catch those people. Once you have those things, you don't really need the physical wall anymore.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Conservatives have simply been roped into a dumb idea again, you're morons who can't think for yourselves. I remember when you used to pretend to be about fiscal responsibility, now you're just a joke.
*Most arrive in airports
*7 times more terrorist suspects caught at northern border
*Trump the traitor will be in prison sucking cock before it's built even if they began today
*Only Republican inbred morons were ever fooled by Trump's lie about Mexico paying for it.
It has never been established to my satisfaction that there is a crisis involving the southern border of the U.S. Illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate (other than illegal entry) than others. There are more people from the southern hemisphere in general seeking asylum, both in the Americas and attempting to enter Europe from Africa. From the nonpartisan reports I have read, the backlog of asylum-seekers can be reduced by increasing the number of government workers who process those asylum applications. Drugs come in through normal ports of entry more often than across the remote parts of the border, from what I have read. So, if crime and drugs cannot be solved through building a wall, the adults in Washington need to do like adults elsewhere when confronted with a child throwing a tantrum--ignore or set limits. "Just say no" as Nancy Reagan said.
Chris is busy applying 2 years worth of highly critical security patches in his highly secured government IT job. Previous government shutdowns weren't long enough to allow Chris to apply those needed patches.
Chris didn't even have time to put his last Sunday video online,
Come again later.
Study walls and fence systems that work legally around the world.
Make sure the wall cant be climbed physically without effort and that all legal attempts to stay in the USA after such attempts fail.
Make sure any illegal migrant who attempts the get over the wall has no legal rights to the stay in the USA after that attempt.
That stops years and decades of legal court work in the USA after each and every attempt to get over the wall.
The illegal migrant is set back to there side of the wall and never allowed back into the USA.
Attempt to get over the wall and that is a crime and no further access to the US is ever permitted for any reason for that illegal migrant.
That will force all illegal migrants to have to buy fake random documents. Such new documents are now more easy to detect at any legal crossing location.
Wondering int the USA at some random location is no longer an option.
Demanding US legal protection later after wondering into the USA will not work.
Use all detection methods the US mil has to detect any new deeper tunnel attempts.
That removes the legal and easy attempts to cross into the USA illegally. All later US court and legal attempts to stay in the USA after getting over the wall.
That then allows more enfacement at ports, airports and all other legal entry locations.
Crime, illegal migration and drug imports are reduced.
Win, win, win.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Not to mention, almost ALL illegal immigrants are coming via airports comparatively. And SEVEN TIMES as many terrorism suspects are caught at the NORTHERN border than the Southern.
Republicans are ideological morons by choice. Kick them to the curb, let them be in whatever swamp they want to run, but they suck at governance. The shutdown over BS proves it undeniably.
... he is.
NBC News reported that Kolfage, who was associated with websites that published false stories and had pages shut down by Facebook, claims to have gathered 3.5 million email addresses through his border wall campaign.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
They don't need a wall, just automated guns. If anyone crosses the border, they're dead. No people to pay, no people to bribe, illegals just die.
If you didn't read the news, you wouldn't know there is a federal shutdown.
There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC.
As long as the taxes are removed from my paycheck, the government is not shut down.
I don't even feel sorry for the nonessentials. Go look for a new job not funded by taxpayers if you want to avoid political gridlock delaying your paycheck.
Unless you're a government employee who isn't receiving a paycheck.
Or planning to go to a National Park and noticed it's either closed or opened and trashed.
Or flying and dealing with longer lines due to pissed off and absent TSA screeners.
Or you'll just be dealing with some bureaucratic BS in a few months time and whining about lazy government employees not realizing the BS you're dealing with is because the department got way behind dealing with the shutdown caused by your hero's temper tantrum.
I stole this Sig
Funny. Should all the people in the military get "real jobs"? Oh, right, their job is "real" and they still are funded by a separate DoD bill that Trump signed, unlike the Coast Guard, Border and Customs, and FBI. Oh, and the VA is still open (although whether they're still being paid? Got me.). I've an idea: since we've already funding the military, why not just reassign them to cover those 800,000 jobs? Or we can just get rid of protecting the borders, investigating crimes at a federal level, and let our coastal waters be a haven for pirates.
Seriously, the US government shutting down repeatedly *shouldn't happen*. The lack of funding is a direct result of an unwillingness for politicians to properly govern. The people who should be "laid off" aren't the rank and file. But, yea, let's just fire 800,000 people and then try to rehire to fill those jobs when the people in charge of your funding are so unstable they actively fight against paying you. That's the only way in which it's not "real jobs". I'm sure, though, you'd be happy if the government just lost those 800,000 people. Well, while we're at it, let's get rid of the military too.
Its clear IT has its own load of dumbfucks reading these posts.
If you don't know Trump is slime by now, you're slime.
No IGW, YOU should get a real job, faggot. You know nothing about this.
Move along.
Virtual walls are expensive to buy and maintain. Its not like the cameras will be simple IR illuminated CCD style you buy at a big box store. They'll be high resolution with thermal imaging. They have to survive difficult environmental conditions. Hundreds of miles of fiber optics and fiber switchgear. Expensive servers and front-end clients. Federal contractors to maintain it all.
Versus a physical barrier CBP can drive by and inspect for damage on occasion.
Versus a Virtual Fence, they're not much of a deterrent. "Woooo, I'm so scared of being caught on video. OMG! What if they use facial recognition that isn't used in my home country?" vs "Hmm... 30ft wall, spikes and/or barbwire... Maybe I should just use an actual border crossing?"
If your donors include many defense contractors, which system are you going to pitch?
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
You keep lying, fail fail fail. They come via airport, you stop nothing with a wall. You're a moronic faggot.
The most bizarre thing about this is that all of this technical funding (well, at least a lot of it) is already in the request that the Trump Administration is making. Border walls do work (ask any resident of San Diego), and technology can be used in places where the border fencing is not necessary. (As an example, the border wall ends about 20 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean here as the urbanized portion of Tijuana ends and the mountain terrain on both sides provides a good deterrent.)
Here's more detail on the request from a few days ago. Really not sure what Pelosi is yelling about at this point, since a comprehensive mixed-focus border strengthening is ostensibly what both sides want:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-asks-for-billions-of-dollars-to-fund-border-operations/
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
Kind of like OP's post!
Would be nice if we could just go back to talking about technology and not seeing another fucking kvetch fest about the president and politics bullshit.
Trump's own imported whore wife is an illegal immigrant, you're a moron.
+sarcasm
I think I now what we can do with all those surplus landmines laying around. Cheap and very effective.
-sarcasm
Airports in the USA have advanced passport controls AC and illegal migrants/criminals have to risk the use their fake documents AC. :)
Very different from just wondering to some random location AC and crossing into the USA.
Criminals and illegal migrants will have to change their movements AC as a new wall is in the way.
They will have to attempt to move past legal crossing points and their new fake documents will have to work every time
Airports can be secured by looking at the documents presented by illegal migrants AC.
Are the fake documents from a US embassy? Does the story told when questioned seem real given the fake documents presented.
Facile recognition, voice prints, fingerprints and a reason why they are entering the USA have to be correct.
One lie at a US airport to the US gov and its time to return to their own nations AC.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Tears so salty but so sweet!!
MOST ILLEGALS COME HERE VIA AIRPORT. ALMOST ALL DRUGS COME VIA CONTAINER. Your faggot blathering act does not change that fact, moron! You're seriously too stupid to have any position here!
#Firewood
I know what we can do with all these useless lying Republican faggots lying around.
#Firewood
around here.
People stop burglars. People stop illegals. Walls stop neither. Locks stop neither. A delay is only as good as the responding force. Fund the border PATROL, let Trump the traitor rot behind PRISON WALLS.
And yes, we GUARD prison walls, moron.
The Kool-Aid Man says, "fuck your wall".
You are welcome on my lawn.
previous and currently-employed border controls on the southern border are more than adequate.
trump is correct about one thing.... there IS a national security emergency... it resides, part time, at the white house; and has been frequently spotted in a dodgy country club in florida...
so maybe that 'impenetrable' wall should be built around the master suite bathroom in the residence at the white house around the time that the 'president' goes on one of his twitter tantrums.
In 2019 we've got much better technologies to detect border crossings than some stupid-ass wall that has to be patrolled anyway because they will get over it or tunnel under it regardless of how high or how deep it goes! Just like everything else Trump does he's trying to use 1940's """technology""" to solve a problem; how can anyone be behind this, are you all dumb, too? For fuck's sake for what his retarded-ass wall would cost we could put a surveillance satellite in geosync orbit that would watch the entire border and not have to take any private citizens' land, and be so much more effective because you wouldn't have to have an entire army of people to physically patrol some damned wall.
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran [Brian Kolfage] to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Guess who sits on the Board of Directors of this new non-profit and will probably get paid to do so? Yup, Brian Kolfage, along with his team including:
Erik Prince, an American businessman known for founding the security firm Blackwater (he is also Education Secretary Betsy DeVos' brother), David Clarke, the former Wisconsin sheriff known for expressing controversial views on immigration, and Kris Kobach, the former Kansas secretary of state.
Business Insider (and others) also note:
Kolfage's previous endeavors, which included stints running conspiracy-theory websites and a related Facebook page that was kicked off the platform in October.
People getting refunds from the GoFundMe campaign will be contacted via email and offered the opportunity to donate to this new "501(c)(4) non-profit Florida Corporation named 'We Build the Wall, Inc.'" -- which will probably *not* be refundable (which will be nice for Brian and his team).
In addition, this Business Insiderarticle Man behind 'Build the Wall' GoFundMe has reportedly made a potentially lucrative contact list thanks to a shadowy email-harvesting operation notes (from interviews with former employees and public records):
NBC News reported that Kolfage, who was associated with websites that published false stories and had pages shut down by Facebook, claims to have gathered 3.5 million email addresses through his border wall campaign.
Those addresses, NBC News reported, have allegedly been used to encourage people to support Kolfage's websites, to buy a coffee brand he owns, or to be stored for future use by conservative campaigns.
Lindsey Lowery, a former staff writer at the now-defunct conservative website FreedomDaily, shared a text message with NBC News in which Kolfage discussed his email harvesting plans.
In the texts, Kolfage told Lowery in September 2017 that "we can make our own [petition] through the website to steal/collect emails."
So... this guy sounds great. /sarcasm
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
San Diego is an urban area where walls EXIST. Yes, they work there - at slowing people slightly - because THEY ARE MANNED AND PATROLLED NEARBY. That is not happening along the entire border, nor proposed.
The 2006 study on GK's effectiveness noted a 76% drop from 1992-2004 in San Diego County, so I'd put it at more than "slowing people slightly". It's a fair argument that some/many of the would-be crossers tried crossing more East instead (not just into Imperial County, but much further east... past Yuma in AZ, NM, and TX). One doesn't need to build an entire wall everywhere and Trump's proposal doesn't do that. CBP knows where walls are needed and where they're not, and they're fully capable of allocating resources accordingly.
The technology in the budget requests goes to a lot of IR, drones, and the like... Exactly the kind of smart allocation of resources everyone on all sides appears to claim to want.
So, again... What's the problem?
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
San Diego is an urban area where walls EXIST. Yes, they work there - at slowing people slightly - because THEY ARE MANNED AND PATROLLED NEARBY. That is not happening along the entire border, nor proposed.
Hey look, another lying Republican faggot. Throw it on the pile.
There is also the human cost to consider.
Rep. Brooks outlines the cost of not having a wall:
“With the southern border, we have the loss of at least 15,000 Americans a year. You have 2,000 that are homicides by illegal aliens, according to federal government data. You’ve got another 15,000, 16,000 that die each year from heroin overdoses, 90 percent of which comes across our porous southern border. That’s not counting the 55,000 additional deaths that are caused by overdoses, a significant amount of which comes across the southern border,” Brooks stated."
I've looked into this, and the numbers are accurate. The GAO estimates for 2009 show that Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900.
"Taking the data only from these five states, and assuming that each person incarcerated for a homicide-related offense is responsible for only one death, yields 5,400 people killed by illegal aliens."
For comparison, automobile deaths in the US is around 35,000 annually.
Total non-medical deaths in the US is about 161,000 annually. Deaths due to illegals is more than 2% of that, possibly as much as 10%, depending on where you put the blame for overdosing.
All of this is fact, and should be the basis for any political arguments about the wall.
The human cost of not having a wall is very high.
The wall will NOT stop any of that. Zero. Nada.
NONE of it. Do you understand that we have THOUSANDS of miles of coastline that is barely guarded?
Do you understand that most of those drugs come in from regular checkpoints?
And let's deal with the REASONS why there are so many drugs coming into the country - THERE IS A DEMAND FOR THEM! Let's deal with that!
The wall is NOTHING but a distraction issue that will solve NOTHING.
And WHY are there so many migrants? Let's look at America's policies shall we?! We CAUSED the immigrant problem!
So let's take some responsibility for OUR actions on the World stage!
Jesus Fucking Christ! How the fuck did Americans get so stupid!! Oh wait! Newt Gingrich and Fox News......
GO ahead, get your fucking wall and "win". Go right ahead!
I am so disgusted now ... Trump is a total moron and yet, my fellow Americans STILL support him?! They'd sooner drop their football team for being less of a loser.
This is unbelievable. The Founding Fathers were morons for not giving us a Parliamentary system. This two-party system is broken and from what I see, it's the Republicans who have jumped the rails into retard land first.
It's a good thing that most of them are old and about to die. The sooner the better and let's fix this country when the Fox News audience is dead.
Rope so strong and tight around the obese traitor's neck!! MAKE THE GALLOWS GREAT AGAIN!
Taxes are crowdfunding v 1.0
...Because we already HAVE ONE?
Much of the border has a physical walls and fences today, and there's already 'virtual fences' monitored by motion-triggered remote cameras and such.
You'll shoot your inbred traitor's eye out, kid.
and overstay their visit. But even if the goal is no longer to stop the flow of illegals (which is how The Wall was sold to me) but instead of make border patrol's life easier it's no good. For one thing there's ladders. For another it's pretty easy to climb a fence.
As others have pointed out Israel doesn't have a lot of wall or fence. Unless you're gonna station somebody at every inch of fence they're just gonna go over it. Israel's solution is snipers and a willingness to kill. I suppose we could do that.
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Bringing the global CO2 increase to a standstill needs 4.5 trillion dollars per year.
That is a 904 times bigger problem than the ticky tacky border wall.
Gasoline CO2 in the air. 4.5 Trillion dollars per year needed to fund not emitting CO2 programs.
https://www.lowco2america.com/2018/10/gasoline-co2-in-air-what-are-some-of.html
Let's see... A politician representing a disttict near silicon valley proposes a technology solution to a physical access problem.
I guess i shouldn't be surprised.
A country needs a border by definition if it starts having a welfare safety net. You don't want your citizens paying into the welfare system for years only to be displaced by cheaper newcomers at the convenience of the corporations which are laying them off.
That being said, I'm somewhat empathetic to these people who state that having a surveillance network is harmful. Before 9/11, I was constantly arguing with people who wanted more surveillance of the population. Then it seems that the people who put that together took advantage of all they learned in that debate to go on the attack.
I do think we need a wall. Mexico's crime has gone off the charts, they do not have working law and order there, and the entire system is massively corrupt.
When you fly into the US, you come through the border (immigration), and your identification, papers, and more are scrutinized. Would you support doing so for everyone who enters across a border? If they can bypass that check - should we let them do so?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
"Would you support doing so for everyone who enters across a border?" YES. I'm a Democrat because I don't support GOP nazism. And that's a fine use of tax dollars IMHO, to staff customs appropriately. Absolutely.
Airports and shipping container security, I'd easily support giving reasonable money to operate effectively. That would be useful as experts agree an unmanned wall is not. The numbers alone, they come through airports.
Walls are for prisoners like Trump will be shortly, and we guard those.
OK, so what should we do to people who arrive in the US at the airport and refuse to provide identification? What should we do with people who arrive at the foreign airport and refuse to provide - or even apply - for a Visa to the US? Should we say "well, OK" and just let them in?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
had a great solution. Tell trump we are building a wall. Send some dump trucks to penn ave, and let trump watch them go south. Then tell him they are going to build the wall. Take some photos of existing wall and show it to dumbass after a couple of months and say "All done, your wall is soooo pretty, best wall EVER".
Much cheaper and a result the people actually want.
Reality check: More terror suspects have entered the U.S. from Canada than from Mexico
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/01/07/us/politics/ap-us-trump-terrorism-fact-check.html
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/12/13/trumps-10-terrorists-where-are-they/
To be honest, I don't give a fuck about finding stats to satisfy your dishonest little faggot ass lol, the fact is I have all the facts on my side and you back a lying traitor everyone is watching head to prison.
Go find your own stats, but they're all going to say the vast mega-majority of illegals are coming via airports. Now run along, find a spot to grow some balls ya dishonest little cunt. You lose bitch.
Trump will die in prison long before any wall is ever built even if he did get funding. Go suck Putin's cock, run along now traitor.
Towers spaced every 200m with .50cal automated machine guns, shooting anything that approaches the border. Problem solved
Ask a dumber question please. Seriously, I know you'll have to dig deep. Give me something so dumb I just bust out laughing at your incompetent petulant faggot dance involuntarily. You're close, I'm right there.
Was that grammatically nonsensical non-sequitur supposed to convey an actual message? If so, you failed.
Try again, junior.
Air Traffic Control is a Federal/FAA service, and the workers are going unpaid now.
The US is a mixture of capitalism and socialism. "Capitalism" creates inequities that end up concentrating wealth to a relatively small percentage of the public. Government regulations, taxes, and laws are tasked with reigning in run away capitalism.
"Socialism" run into problems because tit is based on the premise that everyone is equal. You have people who contribute to society and you have people who do not contribute to society but expect society to provide for them. We are approaching the point where being successful is being penalized.
wouldn't a dome be better? asking like i'm 5
Socialism is government forcing collectivism. The crowdfunded wall is individuals VOLUNTEERING to contribute to a project.
Socialism always results in government use of force against the people...and millions dead.
Far more important would be a wall to keep drugs from entering the White House.
that one is dumb
Go figure, you're a constantly obfuscating moron trying to forget that almost all illegals come via airports. Again
Citation requested - you provided none. You switched the discussion - because you're wrong. But being an AC, you have nothing but insults to distract from your failure. Sad.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
You really should have stayed in school, because you clearly don't understand context (or lack thereof) or how the English language works.
That's too bad for you. With McDonald's moving toward automation, combined with the obvious crippling effect of your handicap, it is likely that you will be living with mommy and daddy, fabricating meaning for your life by inventing reasons to feign e-outrage and jacking off to Japanese cartoons for the rest of your life.
Have fun, junior.
Nope, turns out it is overstayed Visas according to DHS.
Now if you want to make the US a Jewish totalitarian police state, well, take your Zionism and shove it.
This is a Secular Nation.
You must be too young to remember all the bombings and hijackings of the 60's and 70's.
Those occurred when there was NO screening. Then the airlines implemented security screening, and the problem mostly disappeared.
Then 9/11 happened, and the feds took over. The cost doubled, and the delays tripled. Yet the TSA does no better on penetration tests than the private security firms they replaced.
The TSA should be abolished, and airport security should be re-privatized.
No, you failed. They arrive via airport more than anything, and reality check: More terror suspects have entered the U.S. from Canada than from Mexico [globalnews.ca]
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/01/07/us/politics/ap-us-trump-terrorism-fact-check.html
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/12/13/trumps-10-terrorists-where-are-they/
Citation is not needed, you can google it faggot. Furthermore you can't refute it, so that's 2 nooses around your neck, traitor.
Cite something saying more cross the border walking than arriving at airports. Put up or shut up moronic treasonous faggot. You can't do shit about facts, and the fact is they come via airports.
You failed. Hang next to Drumpftard the traitor, nobody cares that you can't google.
Not INSTEAD of one.
Because, in the end, the default for a physical impediment is "use the door".
The default for a virtual impediment (drones, patrols, etc) is "No cop. No crime."
A wall forces you to breach, surmount or tunnel under.
All of which take progressively more time, take more resources and generally force the crosser to get "noisy" in some way, increasing the likelihood of being caught.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
They should get real jobs then. You know, like all the peasants. Us peasants who don't merely get paid vacations when our employer runs out of money. Everyone who not a government aristocrat just gets laid off. Cry me a fucking river.
There likely isn't enough jobs in the private sector for all these people. Trivia time: What do you call it when the government invents government jobs for people, so they have some form of employment?
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Oh, and anyone who goes to public parks.
That is a problem of this adminstration's own doing. The unstaffed parks should've been closed. It is absolutely idiotic that the Republicans worried about the potential bad press resulting from the national parks being closed, but not the fallout from literally thousands of government employees getting a goose-egg on their paystub.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Might want to learn how to use a computer you dumb fucking retard.
Let the Border Patrol guys point out where physical deterrents make sense. They know the territory and traffic. Have them work with construction & technology experts to arrive at a practical solution for each of the 1900 miles. Some folks want 90 ft tall concrete slabs or steel curtains for the entire border. I acknowledge that. Emotional satisfaction based in concrete. However, logistically and logically something like that would be difficult to construct, and extremely expensive. Compromise is needed. I'd like to think that technology could provide efficient, practical, reliable and cost-effective solutions, but unfortunately I know technology. Amazonian tribesman armed with poison-tipped darts would work better, but I can't see this administration hiring anyone from south of El Paso.
I see the biggest hurdle being that of lowering peoples expectations. No barrier, be it solid walls, razor-wire fences, autonomous killer robots or sharks with lasers on their heads is impermeable. I predict that "the wall", whatever form it takes, wont keep out undocumented workers, asylum seekers or drugs, it will just change the method and point of entry. When that happens we have 1900 miles of ungodly expensive obsolescence.
I still believe George S Patton was right when he said "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man", but I think we really do need to take CBP's recommendations into account.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
I can see you know how to win friends and influence people.
You lot are off your nut. All of you. I expect an error rate around 2%, but within that margin, you have preconceived notions and genetically expressed predisposition With which I cannot argue. Nor compete. So fuck the lot of you with rakes until you have evidence based reasoning.
We need a border wall to protect us from violent Hispanic aliens.
At 17% of the overall population, Hispanics commit 22% of all murders in the United States.
Suppose that we calculate the percentages after omitting non-Hispanic Africans from the overall population. Then, Hispanics constitute 20% of the overall population but commit 37% of all murders. Hispanics commit murder at 3 times and 6 times the rate at which European-Americans and Asian-Americans, respectively, commit murder.
The countries in Latin America have high rates of violent crime and are the source of Hispanic emigration to the United States.
Get more info about this issue.
We need a border wall to protect us from violent Hispanic aliens.
At 17% of the overall population, Hispanics commit 22% of all murders in the United States.
Suppose that we calculate the percentages after omitting non-Hispanic Africans from the overall population. Then, Hispanics constitute 20% of the overall population but commit 37% of all murders. Hispanics commit murder at 3 times and 6 times the rate at which European-Americans and Asian-Americans, respectively, commit murder.
The countries in Latin America have high rates of violent crime and are the source of Hispanic emigration to the United States.
Get more info about this issue.
That I will support!
Build the damn wall around the White House, tell him Mexico is just on the other side, he'll be happy and stay inside minimizing the damage he's causing, and we can go on being economically oppressed and pretending we have freedom.
But I am absolutely against the wall. Walls are meant to come down.
I would prefer open borders - IF AND ONLY IF - we also end the welfare state.
We need a border wall to protect us from violent Hispanic aliens.
At 17% of the overall population, Hispanics commit 22% of all murders in the United States.
Suppose that we calculate the percentages after omitting non-Hispanic Africans from the overall population. Then, Hispanics constitute 20% of the overall population but commit 37% of all murders. Hispanics commit murder at 3 times and 6 times the rate at which European-Americans and Asian-Americans, respectively, commit murder.
The countries in Latin America have high rates of violent crime and are the source of Hispanic emigration to the United States.
Get more info about this issue.
A wall will stop illegal aliens from entering. A train will deport their asses if they sneak in. Abolishing welfare will stop them from coming here to begin with. Putting judges in GITMO will stop this shit once and for all. Notice how demoncrats and reptilians are working for foreigners and NOT Americans.
Cokain warrior you really are overhigh if you think a wall stops people arriving at airports,
Well it could if you built it across the middle of the runway.
...or don't live in the US. This concept of a government shutdown is a bizarre one for those of us living in other countries.
In countries with a UK-style parliament the budget is regarded as a confidence motion and if it fails then the government automatically falls and there is an election. In addition, the budget usually only deals with changes and specific investments so if one fails to pass normal operations just carry on as they were before but there are no new projects or changes in taxes or benefits. You guys should try it some time.
I guess we should just strike through that "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" crap, eh?
Based on my experience getting a green card 20 years ago you already did. I had to show that I was not too tired to get a job, had enough money to support myself and did not, nor had ever, belonged to the wrong sort of political party (communist) or thought polygamy was a good idea (which is usually a religious belief).
If you want to update it to the modern reality I would suggest: "give us your energetic, your reasonably well-off, your huddled masses yearning to pay fees".
I am pretty sure that airports could rehire them, probably just offer them $10k more for the same job and see who jumps.
If not, well, that type of dictatorship needs to be stopped.
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This is why I have no hope for either my generation (Millennials), the next generation, or the near future.
You're such an idiot.
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You're such a state bootlicker, it's sick.
You wouldn't survive Day 1 of a real civilization collapse scenario.
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Air Traffic Controller isn't a real job?
If the U.S. military ever wasn't paid for a month THEN maybe we'd see REALLY POSITIVE SOCIETAL CHANGE for the first time in my life! (born in 1981).
I couldn't imagine a more happy scenario than vast swaths of the U.S. military AWOLing and reducing our huge budget expense by 50% or something. It'd be AMAZING!
Actually, I hope the entire frickin feds shut down for 3 months and prove to all the statist boot lickers and common rabble that we just don't need them and do much better without them!
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Wouldn't it be easier to build a smaller wall around the crusty old white-supremacists? I'm sure they'd feel a lot safer behind a protective wall. I think millions of the rest of us would feel safer if those crusties were behind a wall too. I for one would feel safer among Mexican immigrants & central American refugees than racist 2nd amendment NRA nut-jobs.
It's a win-win! :)
BTW, I hear Canada's doing really well with getting lots of highly educated, highly skilled immigrants to work there because of the hostile environment that the current US administration is cultivating. Between that, the trade wars, incompetent elected representatives, & the shamefully bad diplomatic relations the US has, you'd think the USA was trying to drive itself into irrelevance & bankruptcy.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
The math is that every week it goes on costs the economy $2 Billion. So just one more week and it will cost more than the $6 Billion he asks for.
I hope he vetoes EVERY SINGLE BILL they pass until they get a 2/3rds majority or a rock-solid 15 foot concrete wall.
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Go read a newspaper and check out how many people have physically died with illegals inside your country. Maybe its the media blackouts but there have been many who've died on American soil. A virtual wall is as good as the virtual connection between the chimney and the "ovens" at Auschwitz: it works as long as you dont try it out.
Talk about getting distracted with semantics. People have died. Get your heads back on and start thinking logically!
It will be good, for once, to see people mostly from Red States paying for something they want, and actually contributing financially in a meaningful way to all the stuff they normally expect sensible, Blue State, taxpayers to fund for them.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
The people on those patrols (who are 52% Hispanic, 11% black) say literally the opposite of what you said.
You are a fucking moron.
because it's NOT REAL.
A real wall keeps people out.
A "virtual wall" does no such thing - it's a fraud. There are two reasons Democrats want this:
1. It can be switched off by any future president and the public will not notice.
2. It does not stop anybody getting their feet onto American soil, where the ACLU and leftists judges can then claim they have a "right" to a court hearing, and then claim the courts are too overcrowded and it would be too unfair to hold them in jail until their hearings --- so they must be allowed to move into the country and disappear into the population.
With a wall, all would-be immigrants are either going to come via LEGAL entry points to be properly vetted and processed, or they will be much more likely to be blocked from getting a foot in. If processed as the millions of white Europeans who passed through Ellis Island were, then the new waves of immigrants reguardless of color would be prevented from entering if they were sick or unable to provide for themselves and places like California would not be spending over $20 BILLION per year on illegals (freeing up all that money for things like better healthcare, better schools, bullet trains, and more).
The Democrats have lost influence with WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants), so they need to change the nature of the population if they are not going to change their policies. They need to import as many non-whites and as many non-protestant-Christians into the nation as fast as possble to ensure their future in power. They seem to be a bit short-sighted in not realizing that by importing people from all the non-functional cultures (skin color does not matter, but CULTURE does and they are importing people from disfunctional third world cultures without the rule-of-law) they are also altering the American culture in a direction they will ultimately regret.
Just post a row of pictures of Pelosi along the border. The migrants will run away screaming.
For illegals goods :
: ;-) fines for people hiring illegals , such as , 1% of the firm earning (not profit) for that period per illegals 1% of the workforce, so if your workforce is 90% illegals over 3 years, you lose 90% of earning you reported for the last 3 years.
1) Research the reason for drugs. They are mostly societal. Thus more helps are needed for the person most vulnerable
2) that include new center for mental illness and better follow up on mentally ill persons, addiction, cheaper treatment, and far more importantly researching pain killing method which are not addictive/killing the way opiod are: e.g. research cannabinoid
3) allow some of those drugs, to be sold like marijuannah, maybe even MDMA, to any consenting adult as long as manufcaturing process are checked, for bacteria/fungus/known composition/no mixing.
4) some activities are more hit by drug usage : e.g. prostitute female and male are more drug abuser than non-prostitute. Make more counseilling, help people find different jobs, or stop fighting the prostitute themselves, or the john (fighting either make prostitute go underground which in both case make their life harder without making a fucking dent in the market). Allow bordels, with medical free survey for the prostitute, free education, gratis counseilling, etc...
5) check that docs prescribe pain killer at a lower dosis, and survey their patient more on follow up. Especially for signs of addiction.
6) stop imprisoning drug user dammit.
I even have a solution For illegal immigration since we are onto walls
1) have all ICE officer stop arresting illegals.
2) retrain those ICE officer to massively check people hiring illegals e.g. farming, contruction
3) have huuuuuuge
4) long penalty for CEO / people at the top for hiring illegals. Minimum 5 years.
5) make sure tricks can be detected , e.g. "we did not knew he was illegal he had some paper honest" e.g. may require to associate a photo with social security number. May be actually the most difficult steps.
6) prepare for some huge protest from people seeing grocery, cleaning and building cost increase 10 fold or more.
Any other solution is crap.
For all practical intent and purpose unless you have somebody watching it hourly, you don't need much time or construction equipment to destroy such a wall or go under/over it , at least for the cost of construction cited (to make solid far more solid you would have to increase cost by a manifold). So you would need a lot of fuel/car or heli/personal to go over that border and check it very regularly, or have a huge electric surveillance of that wall. And even then you catch at best only 50% of illegals (half of illegals overstay legal entry, and only part of the other half is using coyote, some do use train/board/truck transportation). Walls are lousy when it comes to stop stuff. All places which had working "walls" have actually dead zone , sniper, mines to make it work (Korea even if it is not a wall is a good example of that, another famous example is east germany and the mines and dead zones, then there is Israel where they use a wall ONLY when they can't have a dead zone and armed people). There is no good example of a working wall "alone".
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And it is in area which are easily accessible. In other word it isn't comparable to the rest of the border.
Not right now actually. If he wanted the money he would have worked on it hard right from taking office and certainly worked on getting it done before the mid-terms.
What he wants to be able to do is go to the 2020 elections wringing his hands about how unfair it is that the deep state and evil democrats are keeping him from doing the will of his beloved base and that's why they should give him 4 more years.
Because what he knows is even if he got the money over a year ago, it will take many years for the wall to be even remotely completed. Heck they may have to work on the planning and engineering stages for years. The imminent domain cases (95% of the land on the border is privately owned) could take many years, possibly decades to resolve entirely.
So he was never going to be able to point at the wall and say "looky looky knuckledraggers, Pappa Trump brought it!" and listen to their slackjawed hoots of adulation. And that's all he cares about, how the publicity plays. So for him, NOT building the wall is the best publicity he'll get on a timeline that is useful to him.
And of course the side benefit is that no doubt the vast majority of the money will go to construction and engineering firms that he has dealings with. As a tangent, I always scoffed at the idea of Trump as a political outsider. The industry that is possibly most closely aligned with politics and corruption is real estate development. He may not have been an elected politician, but he was always a politician and a crooked one at that.
Make it a felony to employ an illegal immigrant (and as a small business owner, I'd totally support this 100%). Require everyone including asylum seekers to declare at a legit port of entry and stay there on their side of the border in a secure facility waiting for their hearing. Anyone else gets kicked out and permanently banned. These simple legal changes would be way more effective than any physical barrier.
you can pass tax cuts for wealthy when you have house and senate but not wall. shut the fuck up racist.
The border wall problem is a made-up political issue. Immigration is down. Drug smuggling happens most often at legal ports of entry. Most illegal immigrants started here with legal visas but then overstayed their visas. The crime rate from illegal immigrants is lower than the crime rate among legal residents.
So it would be more effective to put effort into inspecting vehicles, people, and containers at legal ports of entry and find and deport visa over-stayers rather than to keep obsessing over this stupid wall nonsense.
....don't happen in reality.
A virtual wall isn't.
They will eventually be paid. They aren't being paid right now. Don't be an ass. If your job missed paying you a check, and it looked likely that the next would be missed too, and you've got bills to pay.. you wouldn't be talking about how you're "getting paid"
\Build a minefield. We might have some exploding cattle and deer, but at least that can feed the stupid invading fucks flooding across the border. Consider it a humanitarian act.
I wish we would debate immigration itself and not get stuck in the weeds discussing walls, whether drugs or illegal immigrants come over the border frontier or airports and shipping containers, or whether they're all criminals, and all the other fringe elements of the debate.
I think there are serious questions about the economic impact of high levels of impoverished immigrants. They burden school districts, local social welfare systems, low-income housing, etc. Does their very low wage employment, even in an ideal situation where they are W-2 workers, actually pay off their added economic burden, or are they actually subsidized, perhaps even for a long time -- like a generation. Or even longer, since we know that escaping poverty is hard.
Our social welfare system does a very marginal job of serving US citizens, it seems unlikely to expand sufficiently to cover significant numbers of poor migrants and serve US citizens. This seems like a real issue to me.
Then there are real questions about the US job market and corporate hiring policies for non-impoverished immigrants. Very few of them are "rock star" types, most of them are cheap filler for corporate jobs that actually seems to harm skilled US workers.
The IRS seized my entire bank account over a payment being a few days late (payment was in the mail... got extra fees after the check bounced when the account was raped). Fuck them all
The funny thing is that if the federal government announced a highway from San Diego to Laredo nobody would be batting an eye about the engineering, cost, or construction route (well, some environmentalists would, but they bitch about literally everything).
Curiously, though, a wall is an ending financial/engineering challenge?
-Styopa
Laser Beams motion IR sensors. Robots, drones. A dynamic barrier. Good tech for defense dept to test. Animals will adapt or not.
The Democrats should provide some funding for the wall, but stipulate that it be constructed of colorful, diaphanous material.
Point made!
tone
$5,700,000 is too expensive to spend on a physical wall. Most analysts claim it would cost a minimum of $20,000,000 to $23,000,000 just for construction not to mention maintenance. There are better things we'd like to spend that much money on. The republicans just cut taxes but now they're wanting to increase spending. Don't you agree that's a problem? What ever happened to fiscal conservatives?
right up until this month.
That makes sense. There's only 2 outcomes for them and The Wall, neither of them good:
1. Wall works, they're out of the job. And yes, the various private security Unions think about this. One of the big reasons we can't get marijuana decriminalized is the prison guard union campaigns heavily against it (which as a pro-Union lefty kinda breaks my mind, but such is reality).
2. Wall doesn't work, we just wasted $25-$50 billion dollars and they look like idiots.
So yeah, Wall is bad juju if you make your living catching illegals.
What's interesting is the change. It's not like the two points above have gone away. If I had to guess the GOP promised their leadership something.
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Just remembering the last time a large virtual wall project was undertaken. Why do I suspect a similar headline might be in the future for a future wall project, whether virtual or physical?
https://www.zdnet.com/article/boeing-virtual-fence-30-billion-failure/
should the US*
Both Mexico and the USA are American countries.
1. Dig a big-ass moat and stock it with alligators. Dump truckloads of male baby chicks fornerly mulched after hatching. Two birds with one stone.
2. Grant permits to registered Republicans and NRAmembers to assassinate illegals. Kinda like duck season.
3. Make living in USA economically and politicallt worse than the countries they from which they are emigrating... wait, thatone is actually happening.
Canadians are filling up expensive private hospital beds that rich Americansare are entitled to. Also, they are taking good-payung Hollywood and pro hockey jobs that rightfully belong to us. Plus a Canadian wall would be cheap, Just stack blocks of already available ice all along the 49th parallel, no problem.
Some 800 years ago the Han Chinese built the Great Wall of China to keep out Genghis Khan and the Mongols. It was a thunderous failure--the Mongols simply rode their horses around it. The Great Wall of Trump will be equally ineffective.
Where in the constitution did that happen? ATC on private/state property (airports) should be handled private/state.
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Since most of you guys are smart, I was wondering whether this would be a better idea: a very big, deep trench. Since it would at least slow people down, it could be monitored 24/7 by drones (way) overhead, where border police could deal with people trying to cross. It would be cheaper to make, I would think.
Just a reminder that the issue is that all the bad stuff can and is being trafficked under any wall.
I hope he vetoes EVERY SINGLE BILL they pass until they get a 2/3rds majority or a rock-solid 15 foot concrete wall.
Thank goodness they don't make 16-foot ladders.
But I admit, the Maginot Line held the Germans at bay for nearly half an hour so it wasn't completely ineffective.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I think it would be cheaper to contract all these wannabe illegal border crossers to build the wall themselves, for a lower wage, than hiring US workers. Maintenance and patrolling can also be outsourced to Mexico
Visa overstays are between 25 and 40 percent of illegal aliens in the US. Most come across the border illegally, hence the wall.
Regardless of the legal/Constitutional issues, fact is that ATC workers are going unpaid for now. This is not a good thing.
Yep, they come by plane.
96% come by air, you don't know what you're blathering about Trumptard faggot and you will be raped to pieces while the Drumpftard traitor HANGS FROM HIS FAGGOT TRAITOR NECK.
Isn't there some kind of compromise that can be reached where when can you give the wall launchers some sort of symbolic gesture that helps them with their chronic psychological insecurity issues, it keeps their mental distress out of national policy? Should we be paying for therapist for the fearful instead of walls 2 reinforce their paranoia? It's a lot more proficient to treat and contain their paranoia, then to make country dance to the tune I'm paranoid incompetence. Drug dealers only a problem because there is no oversight due to their business being illegal. as soon as you prohibit something completely you lose all control over it. Because then it goes on your Ground. and we are just as many problems with us born citizens raping other us born citizens. You can't distinguish based on rape, because rape is common in any society of people. The more accurate the documentation the higher the reported incidence of rape. The actual occurrences of rape are just as stable as they ever were because it's a natural effect of allowing humans to exist. It's in conflict with our existing conscious morals, but still common to anywhere people exist
So they should walk out then. Force dems to pass a bill or remain stuck in Hawaii.
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or go and open up all the ports on your firewalls your fucking idiots.
...virtual Mexicans, stupid!
W and Obama tried a virtual fence project. A billion dollars was spent with boing and it was later cancelled as ineffective, insufficient and too costly.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/boeing-virtual-fence-30-billion-failure/
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/politics/15fence.html
I have locks on my door. I do NOT use them. I also leave my keys in all my cars and in the summer the windows are usually down. Where the fuck do you live where you need to be so paranoid? I live in TN, home of the methhead and I ain't skeer'd. Grow a set of balls, ya bleeding vagina.
That is the distinction between someone who crosses a border illegally.
Also, it is easy to kick down a door or use a crowbar or smash a window or cut through a roof using an angle grinder... but we still have doors and windows and roofs.
Your estimate appears to be low. According this fact check, around 40-45% of illegal immigrants were overstays during the 90s. There is no real current reporting on the source of illegal immigration right now, the department that previous published that report no longer exists. However, that was near the peak of illegal border crossings, they peaked in 2000, and since then border crossings have dropped by around 70% (they are now the lowest they have been since 1971), and it seems the best estimate is that around two thirds (or more) of new illegal immigrants are overstays.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
How do you know the comparative numbers? All you can possibly compare is the numbers that are caught. As usual, the Left promoting stinky brown statistics.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
If you didn't read the news, you wouldn't know there is a federal shutdown.
If you didn't read the news you also wouldn't know who is president, if we were at war with anyone, or if your favourite football team won the game last night (unless you happened to be at the game).
That's why it's called the news.
There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC.
And that is literally the dumbest and most ignorant statement I've seen on slashdot, and I browse at -1. Maybe you should actually read the news at some point. You'll see the affects of the shutdown are significant and go well beyond the people who have missed a paycheck right during peak credit card repayment season.