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Apple Just Endorsed AT&T's Fake 5G E Network (theverge.com)

Posted by msmash on from the closer-look dept.

There are no 5G iPhones, and there probably won't be 5G iPhones for a while. But that isn't stopping Apple and AT&T: they are reportedly rolling out AT&T's fake "5G E" branding with its upcoming iOS 12.2 update. From a report: Much like when the two companies pulled this scam with 4G and LTE back in 2012, if you can't beat them, you roll out a software update to make it look like you did even though the phones and network are still exactly the same. Multiple users on Twitter are now reporting that they're seeing the new 5G E icon on devices running the latest iOS 12.2 beta 2, which was released earlier today. The new icon isn't there for everyone, presumably because it will only appear in cities where AT&T's 5G Evolution network -- the company's intentionally misleading name for its LTE network that it seems to hope customers will confuse for actual, next-generation 5G networks -- is active.

63 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Mine was upgraded by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    My phone was upgraded today with the new beta and I am enjoying the new speeds. And it was free!

    1. Re:Mine was upgraded by supremebob · · Score: 1

      Dumb question... are there any actual speed improvements at all, or are they just changing the logo?

    2. Re:Mine was upgraded by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      No, it's just a logo change. The network is still 4G LTE.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    3. Re:Mine was upgraded by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Hey that is like 16 bits saved. Saying 4G LTE vs 5G E that is the difference of 6 characters vs 4! I like this Kool aid.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Mine was upgraded by quenda · · Score: 1

      My phone was upgraded today with the new beta and I am enjoying the new speeds.

      This is no more silly than people getting excited about their awesome new 4K TV, when they sit 10 foot or more away, and so cannot possibly tell the difference.

  2. How is this legal? by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    I don't understand how they are getting away with this. This is outright lying.

    1. Re:How is this legal? by sinij · · Score: 1

      It is 100% Beef(TM) of cellular connections.

    2. Re:How is this legal? by sheramil · · Score: 2

      "Outright lying" may be true, but it's a little harsh. The preferred term is "reality distortion field".

      Gonna beat them all, switching to 6G and IP7!

      (Places sticker on back of phone) There. That'll show 'em. It also blocks harmful radiation.

    3. Re:How is this legal? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      The "E" is how they escape FTC scrutiny... if anyone gets pissy about it, they'll both point to that "E", calling it a differentiator that denotes that it's not "true" 5G, just that they're "preparing for the arrival of 5G before anyone else", because they're so "forward-looking" and stuff.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:How is this legal? by Zmobie · · Score: 2

      They've lobbied the legal definitions into a complete mess that doesn't actually resemble the original technical definition. This is most of marketing for companies like them, cheat now, get caught and feign ignorance later.

  3. One sleazy company's hands... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    ... washes the others.

    --
    That is all.
  4. Re:They're poisoning their own system by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People will notice. I mean, yes, they'll be suckered in for the "new", but soon they'll find out that the new is just a new coat of paint on the old. And then? You think they'll get "6G" (or whatever the next gen thing will be) once they have been burned now?

    Fuck those quarter-report idiots.

    Like they noticed AT&T passing off 3G as 4G... Right, guys, right? They all noticed that.

    Back when G had a definition, few people knew it. Now it doesn't have a definition, so phone companies can call whatever they like 5G. Its not like the US has an advertising standards agency or anything to punish companies who deliberately advertise misleading information. Hell, AT&T would get away with it by simply saying that 5G stands for G-G-G-G-Good.

    They system was poisoned a long time ago but it never harmed the people doing the poisoning.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  5. Different users. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

    I would like to take this high level post to point out that we are not the same users.

    1. Re:Different users. by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Liar. We are the same.

  6. Truth in advertising? by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    Don't y'all have truth in advertising laws over there?

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Truth in advertising? by Zmobie · · Score: 2

      Until someone that actually understands what they are doing has something to gain in their position of power it pretty much goes unnoticed/unaddressed. It is kind of like trying to bail the water out of a sinking battleship with a solo cup...

  7. Don't other carriers have standing to sue? by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

    This misleading advertising damages their business because they aren't doing it, and the confusion it will cause will slow adoption of actual 5G once anyone makes it.

  8. History repeats itself by BeemerBoy · · Score: 1

    This is a surprise? They did the same thing YEARS ago when AT&T decided their 3G+ network was really 4G. Same ol' same ol' from two companies known for misleading their customers.

    --
    Buzzing the information Superhighway at Warp speed
  9. AT&T always does this .... by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Informative

    Look at AT&T U-Verse service. It was marketed as broadband that goes head-to-head with cable internet services or something like Verizon FiOS. Their marketing made a big deal about it using fiber, even. Yet it's *really* just a fancy way to squeeze about 18mbit/sec download speeds, maximum, out of copper wire intended for voice land line phone use. (Sure, they run fiber as far as the nearest phone box at the end of a neighborhood street. But all the gear in the box converts the fiber to a form of DSL service they can run over the copper from there to a customer's site.)

    1. Re:AT&T always does this .... by supremebob · · Score: 1

      U-Verse's VDSL seems to cap out at 54 mbit/sec, and even then you'll only get those speeds if you're close to the central office. The best I could get from them where I used to live was 25 mbps, which is pretty bad considering that Comcast offers 250 mbps speeds in the same area.

    2. Re:AT&T always does this .... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Same thing happened in the UK, "fibre" internet is really just fibre to the cabinet and then the same crappy copper as before. Now we need to invent a new name for real fibre.

      Also we need to think of a new name for actual hoverboards when we finally invent them in 2015.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:AT&T always does this .... by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      The comcast service and many others are actually using direct fiber connections (or I think in some cases very short CAT 5e/6 runs instead of the old CAT3 telephone runs). AT&T UVerse runs a fiber backbone to a local NID which then converts over to use the existing copper lines for most telephone service. One of my friends used to do installation for them years ago and even moved over to the fiber teams for a while. AT&T Fiber is what actually runs at the competing speeds with comcast, but AT&T has been very slow to upgrade mostly because they own so much infrastructure already.

      They have little incentive to upgrade the existing infrastructure because they want to squeeze every dime they can out of the original investment, and have managed to get so much restriction put on the usage of any public utility infrastructure it is difficult for competitors to expand. It is similar to some of the extreme unions up north where you can't touch an extension cord if you're not part of the electricians union for that site. Without AT&T being there, other companies are pretty limited in what they can do to the existing stuff and are sometimes even prohibited from building their own infrastructure to "reduce clutter." Translated it is a government supported monopoly for AT&T... They're all about the free market up until it starts cutting into their profit margins.

      Oddly enough though, the heavy restrictions they have on the old infrastructure created some incentive for companies to build out their own buried fiber connection networks. A different friend of mine actually runs crews for a contract company to lay fiber out and only started getting AT&T contracts like 2 years ago (hes been doing this for over 10 years in Texas... AT&Ts backyard...).

    4. Re:AT&T always does this .... by Drethon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Look at AT&T U-Verse service. It was marketed as broadband that goes head-to-head with cable internet services or something like Verizon FiOS. Their marketing made a big deal about it using fiber, even. Yet it's *really* just a fancy way to squeeze about 18mbit/sec download speeds, maximum, out of copper wire intended for voice land line phone use. (Sure, they run fiber as far as the nearest phone box at the end of a neighborhood street. But all the gear in the box converts the fiber to a form of DSL service they can run over the copper from there to a customer's site.)

      When they first came out with U-Verse it was faster than any available DSL and as around the speed of cable while having much lower ping times (I could not play online games in our area with cable but U-Verse was fine). However that approach has a much lower ceiling than cable so it is no longer that great, and since then cable (or maybe just the provider I moved to) seems to have improved the issue with ping times.

    5. Re:AT&T always does this .... by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If they're running fiber to the end of your street, then it's stupid to run ADSL from there to your home. ADSL tops out at 24 Mbps down, 3 Mbps up. VDSL provides much more bandwidth at distances under 1 km. It's capable of hitting 300 Mbps down, 100 Mbps up over Cat 3 for extremely short distances. That's why some ISPs are using it for fiber in the street, with VDSL2 from the street to the home over existing Cat 3 wires.

      What's more likely is that AT&T's marketing is trying to obfuscate the limited availability of their fiber network, by intentionally labeling everything (FTTH, fiber + VDSL, and ADSL) as "U-Verse". And you just happened to be in one of the ADSL areas.

    6. Re:AT&T always does this .... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      (I could not play online games in our area with cable but U-Verse was fine)

      Holy crap man, that was a local problem with your cable and not something magic about U-Verse.

    7. Re:AT&T always does this .... by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      It's already differentiated as FTTN (fibre to the node) and FTTD (fibre to the door).

    8. Re:AT&T always does this .... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They don't use that terminology for consumers though. They need a simpler, catchy name.

      Everyone was moaning for years that other countries had fibre, it became the holy grail of not-shit broadband, so they gave people "fibre".

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:AT&T always does this .... by Drethon · · Score: 1

      You can improve DSL speed above that though.
      Currently in Amsterdam they are switching to bonding (everyone already has a double telephone pair), together with vectoring DSL we get 400Mbit/sec.

      Would be nice if a phone company in the US would make such an investment...

    10. Re:AT&T always does this .... by Drethon · · Score: 1

      (I could not play online games in our area with cable but U-Verse was fine)

      Holy crap man, that was a local problem with your cable and not something magic about U-Verse.

      Could be, but at the time when U-Verse arrived (2005 or 8ish?), at a few different houses in the area I tested cable and ping times were regularly 40-80ms and sometimes higher, U-Verse or DSL was pretty steady around 20ms, sometimes a little higher. Been a while since I last did such a test though.

  10. WTF does Apple have to do with this? by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    Only a fool expects a corporation to police the other corporations they have to do business with. Government is supposed to police things; that was it's job before you all abdicated your responsibility and let corporations merge with it (see definition of fascism... then ask yourself what is the threshold where that term applies?)

    How is it not YOUR fault that ATnT is doing this?? You are still a paying customer of theirs... Aren't you supposed to police them with your purchases? Aren't you supposed to monitor everything that all the companies you do business with and then punish them by boycotting them? What is the threshold for you taking responsibility for where your $ goes? (and how much free time do you have to do that?) Whatever your answer, the amount you tolerate/compromise is the exact amount of oppression/exploitation you are allowing.

    "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress"
    -Frederick Douglas

    --
    Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
    1. Re:WTF does Apple have to do with this? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      One thing to remember about most mobile service in the US, is that people get locked into contracts. I'm waiting for mine to expire in March, and then AT&T is fired.

      There is literally nothing they can do to retain my service at this point, short of making it 100% free for the rest of my life.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  11. Re:legality? by sgage · · Score: 1

    Corporations rule this country.

    Commerce is deceit.

  12. Is there any benefit? by rnmartinez · · Score: 1

    My carrier offered me a discounted package with 3G speeds, but LTE latency (my phone shows an LTE connection and I don't really notice much a difference from when I had their 4g "full speed" package). Is this something similar, or is it just a straight up scam? If so, how do they call this an upgrade?

    1. Re:Is there any benefit? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      This is them offering "5G speeds" using LTE and calling it 5G. They could have accomplished the same thing without the deceit by just increasing the throughput and saying "Hey our network just got faster for everyone. You're welcome!"

      Instead they are muddying the waters on the whole 5G thing, because they probably know their rollout of 5G is going to be behind competitors, and they don't want to be selling "less G's" than the other guys. So they do this bullshit, as there really isn't an accepted definition of what 5G actually is.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  13. Re:They're poisoning their own system by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    but soon they'll find out that the new is just a new coat of paint on the old.

    Business as usual at apple then.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  14. Apple and ATT have been in bed from day 1 by williamyf · · Score: 1

    Back when AT&T was called Cingular, they and apple were in bed.

    So, why are you all acting so surprised?

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    1. Re:Apple and ATT have been in bed from day 1 by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Also in the summary, it links to other articles where Samsung and LG phones will also have the "5G" icon. So it's not like this is breaking news.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:Apple and ATT have been in bed from day 1 by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Back when Cingular was Cingular and not absorbed by AT&T, they weren't the smarmiest assholes in the telecom industry.

      Corporate mergers tend to change things like that.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    3. Re:Apple and ATT have been in bed from day 1 by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      Except they already rolled this out to a number of Android handsets in production. Its just a scam on AT&Ts part and the handset makers will go along because they don't want to piss off a big partner over some pesky ethical concerns.

  15. Re:How is this not illegal? by willaien · · Score: 2

    The issue is that 5G is actually a set of speed standards that can technically be met with LTE. But, LTE was built to be a 4G platform and isn't going to expand to faster speeds in the future like a new standard built specifically for 5G would - and you really shouldn't buy into a phone as "5G" until whatever replaces LTE is released. AT&T pulled this same crap with 4G, branding things as "4G" because it technically just barely met the standards, well before they rolled out LTE.

  16. Re:They're poisoning their own system by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Support for newer bands/frequencies??

  17. Re:They're poisoning their own system by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    No, we all know that 5G stands for G-G-G-G-Grrrreat! Their new mascot's named Tony and is on loan from a cereal company.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  18. Reportedly rolling out? Endorsing? by Mordaximus · · Score: 1

    It's a developer beta, for crying out loud. There's nothing to say it will be in the next developer beta, nor the public beta, nor the release. There could be any of a number of reasons why it's there in beta 2. Unless it's carried forward, how about toning down the sensationalism?

    1. Re:Reportedly rolling out? Endorsing? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      [sarcasm] I demand that no testing of minor things like icons ever take place in a beta. Only things that are absolutely vital to your life must be tested. Why won't you think of the children? [/sarcasm]

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:Reportedly rolling out? Endorsing? by Zmobie · · Score: 1

      Except it will because it is already live on a bunch of Android phones. Apple's hands are tied anyway now because your average consumer would say, "Why can't Apple have 5G speeds, this sucks I'm going to Android for a faster phone!" Its a forgone conclusion now and unless someone actually takes them to court over it, the FTC gets off their ass and enforces some deceptive trade practice laws, or a number of other unlikely scenarios occur this will go live soon.

  19. Re: How is this not illegal? by LostMyAccount · · Score: 2

    It's kind of relevant because it demonstrates that Apple has a long relationship with AT&T, even if they no longer have an iPhone exclusive relationship.

    It's also kind of relevant because of Apple's insistence on bring a privacy company and their image as beyond "above" carrier meddling in their platform.

    Agreeing to run propaganda in the status field for a carrier suggests that Apple isn't beyond putting carrier interests above consumer interests in things like "what fucking network am I really on?" and things like the truth.

  20. 4.5G by iTrawl · · Score: 1

    Call it 4.5G. Tell Marketing it has 5G in it if they complain.

    --
    "Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
  21. Re:They're poisoning their own system by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Informative

    This video is still relevant today...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  22. New Breakfast Cereal by PPH · · Score: 1

    Now with 5G!

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  23. Re:They're poisoning their own system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The 6 has a headphone jack. Therefore it is the best of the lot.

  24. Re:How is this not illegal? by Teun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why would anyone step in?
    Your president lies on a grand scale and for like-minded he is the example to follow.
    Oh sorry, this 5G E is not a lie but an Alternative Truth.

    --
    "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  25. Re:How is this not illegal? by Zmobie · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, I wrote a post about this a loooooooooooong time ago and the only reason they "met" the standard is they lobbied the FCC to change the definition of 4G in a legal sense. They never met the technical standard, and I'm not sure they even do now... This is normal marketing voodoo. They already rolled this crap out to several Android handsets and I've had people comment thinking exactly what AT&T wants, and then I quickly inform them they just changed the icon basically...

  26. Re:How is this not illegal? by Zmobie · · Score: 2

    In fact, I found it: https://slashdot.org/comments....

  27. It's not Apple by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    The strings you see for the network are delivered by the carrier, not Apple. That's why it's also been showing up on some Android phones too.

    (Thanks to AC for the link).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  28. Re:Because... Apple by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I guess the headline "Apple follows local laws" would not have been as sexy, eh?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  29. Marketing speak by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

    The whole "G" thing is just marketing. If it doesn't indiciate a protocol, bandrate, frequency, or any other details, it's all just fluff anyway.

    --
    A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  30. Eagerly awaiting 10G by wwalker98 · · Score: 1

    Or is it XG? Am I doing this right?

  31. No click for you, Verge. by zarmanto · · Score: 3, Informative

    Much like when the two companies pulled this scam...

    Nope, nope, nope! That's just stereotypical Apple-hater clickbait; nothing new to see here, folks. The geeks who actually care about this stuff have already read at least one of the previous articles on the topic, such as last month's article which pointed out that AT&T had then already enlisted Samsung and LG to label their phones in this manner. Also, it's worth noting that the two previous articles were both from The Verge, like this one... so I guess Verge is just really pumped about recycling. (Not the "good" kind of recycling... but still.) And as far as I can tell from the summary, this newer version of the story has utterly no purpose other than to enrage Android uses into hating on Apple some more... so that Verge can put a few more ads in front of hapless eyeballs.

    So yeah, screw that crap; you'll have to do a hell of a lot better than that to get your ad revenue out of me, Verge.

  32. Huawei by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    I hope I get this update on my Huawei phone!

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  33. Gas by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3

    I just bought an AT&T Electric LTE car! It is 100% gas but is forward-looking.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  34. Re:How is this not illegal? by labnet · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The USA has always prioritised private company profits over people.
    Here in civilised countries like Australia we have:
    Unfair dismissal laws
    The right to made a permanent employee after six months
    4 weeks paid holiday, 1 weeks sick leave as a minimum
    Universal health care
    Fair trade bodies
    Truth in advertising (yes companies often fined for fibbing)
    No phones ringing with spam calls and faked caller ID
    Metric
    Police we trust
    High minimum wage so dumb people have a life. ... and with this evil socialism, companies still make a decent profit...

    --
    46137
  35. God I Hate AT&T by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I fucking hate AT&T. They are pure evil. The government broke it up and yet it reassembled itself from the "Baby Bells" after the divestiture, like Terminator 2.

  36. How come? by Gonoff · · Score: 1

    It is not likely that they would get away with this fraud anywhere except the USA. The rest of us tend to have laws that should protect the customer from deceptive practices like this!

    --
    I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.